Typical day in the life of an American Jew

[Islam Rocks!]

1. After a dream filled with images of gold, diamonds and expensive jewelry, wake up and thank G_d that you're a Jew and not one of those stupid, animalistic gentiles. After all, Jews are the greatest humans on earth.

2. Go to the bathroom - your favorite room in the house - and poop. As usual, take your time and really savor the experience: the feeling, the aroma, the "ker-plop" sound of the turd hitting the water. Try to guess - without looking - whether the turd is brown or green, and whether it's smooth or rough. Call your uncle and tell him whether or not your guess was correct.

3. Eat a bagel while complaining that it's too hard. Better yet: call someone and complain to them that it's too hard. Consider filing a lawsuit against the store that sold you the bagel.

4. If you don't live in New York City, daydream about moving there someday, since NYC is the greatest place on earth after Israel (it's full of pricey real estate and snotty Jewish chicks with fake-blonde hair).

5. Read one of your thousands of porno magazines.

6. Call the local utility company and complain about your lights being too bright. If they give you any disagreement, call them "Nazis."

7. Write a letter to the Swiss government demanding Holocaust payments. If they refuse, threaten to sue and then call them "anti-Semites."

8. Same as #7, but write to Denmark, Norway, Japan, Iceland and Brazil instead. If they refuse, threaten to sue and then call them "anti-Semites."

9. Call your neighbor an "anti-Semite" because his wife looks German.

10. Write a poem about poop. If possible, have it published in a New York City periodical.

11. Write another poem about the joys of dual citizenship.

12. Daydream about your eight bank accounts, and how you can use all that money to flee to Israel if necessary.

13. Consider buying another vacation house in the Hamptons.

14. Spend two hours worrying about whether or not tooth-paste is kosher.

15. Call your rabbi and ask him if you should poop before, or after, 8:00 p.m. on a Saturday. If he gives you any argument, call him a "self-hating Jew" and suggest that he read more Freud.

16. Celebrate Leon Trotsky's birthday. If it isn't Trotsky's birthday yet, that's okay, celebrate it anyway.

17. Call up a conservative talk-show host and call him a "racist" for wanting to stem illegal immigration into America.

18. Walk around saying that "America was nothing until the Jews arrived and improved it." If anyone argues with you, call them a "Nazi."

19. Hire a young gentile to mow your lawn for $10, but only pay him $5 and tell him you'll pay him the rest later. After he leaves, laugh about what a sucker he is - like you'll ever pay him the other $5! If he complains, call him an "anti-Semite."

20. Worry that White people may one day discover the ugly truth about the Jews. Take another crap just to make yourself feel better. But if that doesn't work, call your Jewish psychoanalyst and swap poop stories with him - that always cheers you up.

21. Call the local utility company again and complain that your lights are too dim.

22. Demand that your wife get another nose-job, since she still doesn't look like an American - and tell her that this time, make sure that the plastic surgeon is actually Jewish and not just Polish with a Jewish-sounding name.

23. Open your wife's jewelry box and stare at the diamonds until you get an erection.

24. Wonder if your mailman is an anti-Semite.

25. Call several gentile politicians and ask them why more money isn't being given to Israel like you instructed them to do last week - weren't the stupid putzes listening? If they give you any arguments at all, call them "anti-Semites."

26. Call a book publisher and ask them why they published a book that referred to the Palestinians as people who have "suffered." Only the Jews have suffered. No one else. Don't they know that?? If they argue with you, call them "Nazis."

27. Celebrate Sigmund Freud's birthday. If it isn't Freud's birthday yet, that's okay, celebrate it anyway. In honor of Freud's birthday, take a crap, name the turd "Sigmund" and try to have a conversation with it before flushing it. Even better: don't flush it until the next day.

28. Write a letter to a powerful senator, demanding that at least four Arab nations be invaded by U.S. soldiers and that "democracy" be installed in them - but only if those "democracies" are guaranteed to be Israel-friendly. If he gives you any argument, call him an "anti-Semite."


29. Go to your local supermarket and stare at the toilet products until you get an erection.

30. Wonder if the little, blonde shiksa next door is "clean enough" to have sex with. Also wonder if she would accept $10 for sex…no, wait…make it $5 - but only if she has a nasal voice and doesn't attend church regularly.

31. Call a local drugstore and demand to know why none of the soap they sell is marked "kosher." Accuse them of "anti-Semitism" if they don't sell kosher soap within 10 days.

32. Create a list of "known anti-Semites/anti-Semitic groups." Report them to Jewish organizations every few weeks - after all, free-speech guarantees don't apply to anti-Semites.

33. End a friendship with a gentile neighbor, since he dared to purchase a bumper-sticker calling for "no more wars" in the Middle East (how can Israel ever control the entire Middle East without lots of wars? He must be a secret Nazi sympathizer).

34. Accuse at least three gentiles of being "Holocaust deniers," even if you're not sure that they are.

35. Go to a bar-mitzvah and listen to Jews complain about how the U.S. government isn't doing enough to help Israel.

36. Walk down your street and complain to someone about something. Anything. Whine, scream, shout, cry if you have to.

[Independent Harry]

I hardly see the point in labelling all Jewish Americans int he same breath. Kind of like you would rail against all Arabs being put into the same breath.

I happen to know a few Jewish people, and they are great people, they are not evil zionists. While they exist, they are still the minority in the population. And yes, they as a race have their failings, but we all do.

[mwillman]

Dam islam rocks, I had hopes that you weren't a bigot but it looks like i was wrong. Leave that hate for the madrosa.

[Islam Rocks!]

Dam islam rocks, I had hopes that you weren't a bigot but it looks like i was wrong. Leave that hate for the madrosa.Hey guy I just thought it was humorous.

Mainly posted it for a friend I have who reads the board, and is one of "The Chosen People". Thought he would get a kick out of it.

I don't hate Jews. But Zionists, now thats another story.

I'm of Irish decent and live in Boston, so I hear potato and drunk jokes all the time.

Like, "two Irishmen walked out of a bar"...........Hey, it could happen!!!

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Hey guy I just thought it was humorous.

Mainly posted it for a friend I have who reads the board, and is one of "The Chosen People". Thought he would get a kick out of it.

I don't hate Jews. But Zionists, now thats another story.

I'm of Irish decent and live in Boston, so I hear potato and drunk jokes all the time.

Like, "two Irishmen walked out of a bar"...........Hey, it could happen!!!

I'm blonde and hear blonde jokes all the time. LOL. But I don't know how humorous I would think this joke was if I was Jewish and didn't know you personally.

One can change their hair color, but when you are Jewish, that's a life commitment like being black would be.

Lady Mod

[stefan segal]

islam thinks bigotry is humorous: "Hey guy I just thought it was humorous."

The sorry thing about you islam, is that you are too crude to know how low an individual you are...and that puts you beyond normal social indicators that might be a guide for you to have become a decent human being.

That you spend your time with other similar types to you, it's no wonder you've slipped so far down below the standard of whats considered normal without your notice...the rest of us do notice, but of what use is it to signal you...as I have done?

None at all!

Stefan

[Betty Blowtorch]

I'm of Irish decent and live in Boston, so I hear potato
and drunk jokes all the time.
Yes, it must be horrible for you, an oppressed minority
living in Boston and being of Irish descent.

Oh my god, the horror you must endure! http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9965/drunkirish048bq7.gif
You have my deepest sympathy.

[Independent Harry]

Dam islam rocks, I had hopes that you weren't a bigot but it looks like i was wrong. Leave that hate for the madrosa.

interesting that you gave up on the libertarian thread, most people who have no idea what they are talking about do that...

[Islam Rocks!]

Yes, it must be horrible for you, an oppressed minority
living in Boston and being of Irish descent.

Oh my god, the horror you must endure! http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/9965/drunkirish048bq7.gif
You have my deepest sympathy.Now that was humorus!

Loved the cartoon BBT

Yes, the indignitys I have to endure everyday are terrible!

[moonman]

Stick to your day job IR. I don't see a future for you in comedy.

[UserName]

IR, you should know better than to poke fun at Jews, you Nazi. :lmao2:

[Islam Rocks!]

Sorry UN , didn't know you were one of the Chosen People. :disbelief:

[UserName]

Sorry UN , didn't know you were one of the Chosen People. :disbelief:

I'm not one of the "chosen" anything IR. I just found it funny that so many people would reprimand you for posting this obviously humorous article about Jews. My reply was pure sarcasm.
I just wonder if you had posted something equally humorous about say, the Scots or the French, what the replies would have been. Probably would have been totally different. I wonder why that is?

[stefan segal]

islam/username...if you read what was posted, you would note the lack of even poor humor...no, this post was designed to denigrate in a most mean spirited manner.

I thought people with your attitudes were something of the past...before the ovens past...but something shits and up you pop all over again.

What is your goal this time? I can guarentee that it won't be a hitler repete...you're fucking around with some fiesty people who lost a lot of trust last time around...do you think you're ready for it?

Stefan

[UserName]

islam/username...if you read what was posted, you would note the lack of even poor humor...no, this post was designed to denigrate in a most mean spirited manner.

I thought people with your attitudes were something of the past...before the ovens past...but something shits and up you pop all over again.

What is your goal this time? I can guarentee that it won't be a hitler repete...you're fucking around with some fiesty people who lost a lot of trust last time around...do you think you're ready for it?

Stefan


I believe you just proved the entire article to be quite legitimate and deft. I guess now is the time to throw out your race-card/name-calling and label me an anti-semite or a Nazi?:lmao2: :lmao2:

Or will you just kill me and steal my land?
http://www.harlemlive.org/international/middle_east/palestiniangenocide/corpses.JPG

[Independent Harry]

I believe you just proved the entire article to be quite legitimate and deft. I guess now is the time to throw out your race-card/name-calling and label me an anti-semite or a Nazi?:lmao2: :lmao2:

Or will you just kill me and steal my land?
http://www.harlemlive.org/international/middle_east/palestiniangenocide/corpses.JPG

If this post was switched from Jew to italian I would be offended, its not about the off color funny quirks that Jews have. It's just degrading. I'm against AIPAC and against the kind of control Israel has over America. At the same time though, I don't condemn the entire jewish people for those few. Beacuse its not like its so blatant everyone can see whats going on right in front of their eyes.

[UserName]

And the Marx Brothers, Jack Benny, Fanny Brice, George Burns, Milton Berle, Jackie Mason, Joan Rivers, Rodney Dangerfield, Mel Brooks, Mort Sahl, Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce, Andy Kaufman, Richard Belzer, and Jerry Seinfeld are all offensive anti-semite Nazis. Got it.

[Moby]

I'm blonde
That explains a few things :p

[Krome]

Israelis are scum, 90% of them anyway. I have nothing against Jews but Israelis can seriously kill themselves.

[stefan segal]

What does laying out dead bodies in the street for political photo opps have to do with whether a shicksa is clean enough???

You appear not to put much stock in the language...at least the things you personally utter.

The origional post is designed as a character smear of Jews. Your lame asttempt to make it political by dragging out dead palestinians, does not alter the origional posting nor does it alter it's intention.

I will admit that Jews show more respect for thier murdered children when peeling them out of their schoolbusses, and don't lay them in the streets for their propaganda value.
But Jews and palestinians have differences in their world outlooks...Jews see the world that includes palistinians, whereas palestinians even teach their children thier mission in life is to run Jews into the sea..that Jews by allah, should not exist.

You obviously believe they need your help in this first step of diminishing the Jew to a characture...the characture your innitial list laid out.

This is the natzi game plan also...make the Jew appear less than human...make the Jew worthy of punishment...make the Jew prejudged and not worthy of justice.

Your attack upon all Jewery is reprehensible and made far worse by your lame attempts to 'change it spots' when normal humans called you out and you went the coward's route...dragging out the dead palestinians.

You may not have noticed, but what palestinians accuse Jews of doing collaterally, they themselves are murdering the most innocent Jews they can locate by design.

Jews want to stop the kiling..that is why they are spending so much in wealth and politically to build the wall to separate the factions...to stop the killings on both sides.

Soon, we will all need all our energies to "tend our own personal garden" and have no time to worry about such stuff as pretending to talk about middle east problems when rationalizing the 'rightness' of stealing from Jews here at home is so much more the point.

As a coward, you won't be among the first to get themselves shot, but then you will have plenty of time to wish you were more intelligent before you do.

Note...the "more intelligence" element would heve enlightened you to the benifits of working together rather than your efforts to inflame hate.

Stefan

[LadyMod at scam.com]

That explains a few things :p

Watch it. ;)


LM

[UserName]

Note...the "more intelligence" element would heve enlightened you to the benifits of working together rather than your efforts to inflame hate.

Stefan

LOL Tell that to the thieving Zionist bastards you so adamantly defend while they murder and steal their way across Palestine.

[Islam Rocks!]

And the Marx Brothers, Jack Benny, Fanny Brice, George Burns, Milton Berle, Jackie Mason, Joan Rivers, Rodney Dangerfield, Mel Brooks, Mort Sahl, Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce, Andy Kaufman, Richard Belzer, and Jerry Seinfeld are all offensive anti-semite Nazis. Got it.If a Jew pokes fun at Jews, then everything is O.K.

But if a gentile says the exact same thing. Then he is labeled an anti-semite and a Nazi.

[Independent Harry]

What does laying out dead bodies in the street for political photo opps have to do with whether a shicksa is clean enough???

You appear not to put much stock in the language...at least the things you personally utter.

The origional post is designed as a character smear of Jews. Your lame asttempt to make it political by dragging out dead palestinians, does not alter the origional posting nor does it alter it's intention.

I will admit that Jews show more respect for thier murdered children when peeling them out of their schoolbusses, and don't lay them in the streets for their propaganda value.
But Jews and palestinians have differences in their world outlooks...Jews see the world that includes palistinians, whereas palestinians even teach their children thier mission in life is to run Jews into the sea..that Jews by allah, should not exist.

You obviously believe they need your help in this first step of diminishing the Jew to a characture...the characture your innitial list laid out.

This is the natzi game plan also...make the Jew appear less than human...make the Jew worthy of punishment...make the Jew prejudged and not worthy of justice.

Your attack upon all Jewery is reprehensible and made far worse by your lame attempts to 'change it spots' when normal humans called you out and you went the coward's route...dragging out the dead palestinians.

You may not have noticed, but what palestinians accuse Jews of doing collaterally, they themselves are murdering the most innocent Jews they can locate by design.

Jews want to stop the kiling..that is why they are spending so much in wealth and politically to build the wall to separate the factions...to stop the killings on both sides.

Soon, we will all need all our energies to "tend our own personal garden" and have no time to worry about such stuff as pretending to talk about middle east problems when rationalizing the 'rightness' of stealing from Jews here at home is so much more the point.

As a coward, you won't be among the first to get themselves shot, but then you will have plenty of time to wish you were more intelligent before you do.

Note...the "more intelligence" element would heve enlightened you to the benifits of working together rather than your efforts to inflame hate.

Stefan

First of all, I think its wrong to refer to Israelis as Jews, since Jewish is a religion, not a people. 2nd. I don't think the damage is collateral at all. I think they take out as many people as they can whenever they make attacks on "criminals". Lastly, I think the Zionists that control Israel, see a world under their rule. Rule by the chosen people, not a world where we all get to work together and sing happy songs. But again, this post was ignorant and it is just here to inflame anti-semtism.

[stefan segal]

Independant...the slam was againt Jews...his excuse was about Isrealis killing palistinians.

As far as zionist control...that is the same as saying the us is under neocon control...not really supported by fact.

As far as killing as many collaterals as possible...that is simply inflamatory. That is not at all true. It may be true of our troops in some cases in viet namn and now in Iraq, but Isreal goes to some lengths to faithfully respond to attack and to keep the hit surgical. I know they are hell on real estate that has been utilized for insurgent utility, but with the whole world up Isreal's ass camera and searchlight in hand, Isreal remains very selective in it's retaliation.

I don't know why Isreal is expected to remain so civilized while the palistinians attack children and families, obviously non-combatants, by design...cheer about the killings on their streets, and the world says nothing.

Why do you suppose this disparity exists? Is it due to people's prejudice against Jews? What does all this dunmb shit get those who fear and envy those who are willing to work harder and longer than they? Do they feel thier only means to compete with Jews is to attempt to degrade and destroy what the Jews have built? Not very likely...as in not a chance!

Do you people realize that Isreal is about the size of New Jersey? How does such a small group in such a small country command so much of everyone's attention?

If we had rockets fired into the US from banditos in mexico with youngsters in explosive vests blowing up PTA meetings and knights of columbus beer blasts, you would very quickly see large areas of collaterally damaged mexican's parts hanging off the cactuses...why then should Isrealis be held so tightly to a line that palistinians are lauded for intentionally crossing?

Stefan

[Nuclearian]

1. After a dream filled with images of gold, diamonds and expensive jewelry, wake up and thank G_d that you're a Jew and not one of those stupid, animalistic gentiles. After all, Jews are the greatest humans on earth.

2. Go to the bathroom - your favorite room in the house - and poop. As usual, take your time and really savor the experience: the feeling, the aroma, the "ker-plop" sound of the turd hitting the water. Try to guess - without looking - whether the turd is brown or green, and whether it's smooth or rough. Call your uncle and tell him whether or not your guess was correct.

3. Eat a bagel while complaining that it's too hard. Better yet: call someone and complain to them that it's too hard. Consider filing a lawsuit against the store that sold you the bagel.

4. If you don't live in New York City, daydream about moving there someday, since NYC is the greatest place on earth after Israel (it's full of pricey real estate and snotty Jewish chicks with fake-blonde hair).

5. Read one of your thousands of porno magazines.

6. Call the local utility company and complain about your lights being too bright. If they give you any disagreement, call them "Nazis."

7. Write a letter to the Swiss government demanding Holocaust payments. If they refuse, threaten to sue and then call them "anti-Semites."

8. Same as #7, but write to Denmark, Norway, Japan, Iceland and Brazil instead. If they refuse, threaten to sue and then call them "anti-Semites."

9. Call your neighbor an "anti-Semite" because his wife looks German.

10. Write a poem about poop. If possible, have it published in a New York City periodical.

11. Write another poem about the joys of dual citizenship.

12. Daydream about your eight bank accounts, and how you can use all that money to flee to Israel if necessary.

13. Consider buying another vacation house in the Hamptons.

14. Spend two hours worrying about whether or not tooth-paste is kosher.

15. Call your rabbi and ask him if you should poop before, or after, 8:00 p.m. on a Saturday. If he gives you any argument, call him a "self-hating Jew" and suggest that he read more Freud.

16. Celebrate Leon Trotsky's birthday. If it isn't Trotsky's birthday yet, that's okay, celebrate it anyway.

17. Call up a conservative talk-show host and call him a "racist" for wanting to stem illegal immigration into America.

18. Walk around saying that "America was nothing until the Jews arrived and improved it." If anyone argues with you, call them a "Nazi."

19. Hire a young gentile to mow your lawn for $10, but only pay him $5 and tell him you'll pay him the rest later. After he leaves, laugh about what a sucker he is - like you'll ever pay him the other $5! If he complains, call him an "anti-Semite."

20. Worry that White people may one day discover the ugly truth about the Jews. Take another crap just to make yourself feel better. But if that doesn't work, call your Jewish psychoanalyst and swap poop stories with him - that always cheers you up.

21. Call the local utility company again and complain that your lights are too dim.

22. Demand that your wife get another nose-job, since she still doesn't look like an American - and tell her that this time, make sure that the plastic surgeon is actually Jewish and not just Polish with a Jewish-sounding name.

23. Open your wife's jewelry box and stare at the diamonds until you get an erection.

24. Wonder if your mailman is an anti-Semite.

25. Call several gentile politicians and ask them why more money isn't being given to Israel like you instructed them to do last week - weren't the stupid putzes listening? If they give you any arguments at all, call them "anti-Semites."

26. Call a book publisher and ask them why they published a book that referred to the Palestinians as people who have "suffered." Only the Jews have suffered. No one else. Don't they know that?? If they argue with you, call them "Nazis."

27. Celebrate Sigmund Freud's birthday. If it isn't Freud's birthday yet, that's okay, celebrate it anyway. In honor of Freud's birthday, take a crap, name the turd "Sigmund" and try to have a conversation with it before flushing it. Even better: don't flush it until the next day.

28. Write a letter to a powerful senator, demanding that at least four Arab nations be invaded by U.S. soldiers and that "democracy" be installed in them - but only if those "democracies" are guaranteed to be Israel-friendly. If he gives you any argument, call him an "anti-Semite."


29. Go to your local supermarket and stare at the toilet products until you get an erection.

30. Wonder if the little, blonde shiksa next door is "clean enough" to have sex with. Also wonder if she would accept $10 for sex…no, wait…make it $5 - but only if she has a nasal voice and doesn't attend church regularly.

31. Call a local drugstore and demand to know why none of the soap they sell is marked "kosher." Accuse them of "anti-Semitism" if they don't sell kosher soap within 10 days.

32. Create a list of "known anti-Semites/anti-Semitic groups." Report them to Jewish organizations every few weeks - after all, free-speech guarantees don't apply to anti-Semites.

33. End a friendship with a gentile neighbor, since he dared to purchase a bumper-sticker calling for "no more wars" in the Middle East (how can Israel ever control the entire Middle East without lots of wars? He must be a secret Nazi sympathizer).

34. Accuse at least three gentiles of being "Holocaust deniers," even if you're not sure that they are.

35. Go to a bar-mitzvah and listen to Jews complain about how the U.S. government isn't doing enough to help Israel.

36. Walk down your street and complain to someone about something. Anything. Whine, scream, shout, cry if you have to.
Must be one of those Islamofascists. Or maybe a retarded individual. My mistake. Fascist AND Retard.

[Nuclearian]

LOL Tell that to the thieving Zionist bastards you so adamantly defend while they murder and steal their way across Palestine.
There is NO Palestine, you Nazi. Just a name made up for ISRAEL to try and give credence to the LIE that there is actually a PaleNazi race of pukes.

[Islam Rocks!]

Must be one of those Islamofascists. Or maybe a retarded individual. My mistake. Fascist AND Retard.
Rush.......Rush Limbaugh.........is that you?.....aren't you supposed to be doing a radio show now???

[Nuclearian]

Rush.......Rush Limbaugh.........is that you?.....aren't you supposed to be doing a radio show now???
Nah! Just calling facists what they are........FASCISTS/MURDERERS

[Nuclearian]

Stick to your day job IR. I don't see a future for you in comedy.
But i DO see a future in him leading the Aryan Nation organization.

[Independent Harry]

Independant...the slam was againt Jews...his excuse was about Isrealis killing palistinians.

As far as zionist control...that is the same as saying the us is under neocon control...not really supported by fact.

As far as killing as many collaterals as possible...that is simply inflamatory. That is not at all true. It may be true of our troops in some cases in viet namn and now in Iraq, but Isreal goes to some lengths to faithfully respond to attack and to keep the hit surgical. I know they are hell on real estate that has been utilized for insurgent utility, but with the whole world up Isreal's ass camera and searchlight in hand, Isreal remains very selective in it's retaliation.

I don't know why Isreal is expected to remain so civilized while the palistinians attack children and families, obviously non-combatants, by design...cheer about the killings on their streets, and the world says nothing.

Why do you suppose this disparity exists? Is it due to people's prejudice against Jews? What does all this dunmb shit get those who fear and envy those who are willing to work harder and longer than they? Do they feel thier only means to compete with Jews is to attempt to degrade and destroy what the Jews have built? Not very likely...as in not a chance!

Do you people realize that Isreal is about the size of New Jersey? How does such a small group in such a small country command so much of everyone's attention?

If we had rockets fired into the US from banditos in mexico with youngsters in explosive vests blowing up PTA meetings and knights of columbus beer blasts, you would very quickly see large areas of collaterally damaged mexican's parts hanging off the cactuses...why then should Isrealis be held so tightly to a line that palistinians are lauded for intentionally crossing?

Stefan

Imgine you had a gang of dudes, and I had gang of dudes. You have Machine Guns, and grenades and body armor. I've got stones. That's basically what Palestine is to Israel. Israel has a massive military thanks to the US. For them to take the Israelis on directly, would be like the US trying to attack the British in what they called a stand up fight during the revolution. What they are doing is not right, but it is one of the few tactics they have.

[radioguy]

Imgine you had a gang of dudes, and I had gang of dudes. You have Machine Guns, and grenades and body armor. I've got stones. That's basically what Palestine is to Israel. Israel has a massive military thanks to the US. For them to take the Israelis on directly, would be like the US trying to attack the British in what they called a stand up fight during the revolution. What they are doing is not right, but it is one of the few tactics they have.

What the Palestinians are doing isn't a military "tactic", it's murder. They don't engage in the launching of rockets into civilian neighborhoods as a means to reacquire the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They launch those rockets for one reason, and one reason only... to kill the Jews. Just tune in to their state run television and they make it quite clear that the killing Jews is the duty of not only of every Palestinian, but of every Muslim.

If the Palestinians were only interested in the land, they could have had that many years ago. The Israeli's have agreed to many cease fires to negotiate the return of the West Bank and Gaza Strip on several occasions over the years, only to watch as the Palestinians break every single one them. Their actions have made it clear that their desire to murder Jews, is much stronger than their desire for land, having their own state, or lasting peace.

[UserName]

Good for the Palestinians!
I know that if someone came and stole your land radiodud, and murdered your family, and bulldozed your village, that you would cower under the nearest rock and let them have it. But the Palestinians are not like that, they are brave in the face of the murdering Israeli juggernaut. After over 50 years of theft, murder bordering on genocide, and now apartheid, the Palestinians have not lost their will to live. We can only hope they get as many of the Murdering Zionist bastards as possible before there is a lasting peace.

[radioguy]

Typical liberal...

Supports the use of terrorism by terrorist organizations, and denounces the actions taken by America and it's military.

I know, I know... We shouldn't question your patriotism.

[UserName]

Typical liberal...

Supports the use of terrorism by terrorist organizations, and denounces the actions taken by America and it's military.

I know, I know... We shouldn't question your patriotism.


And what would you do if you were born Palestinian, radiodud?

I know, I know,... Being the conservative gutless wonder that you are, we would expect you to emigrate.:lmao2:

[Independent Harry]

What the Palestinians are doing isn't a military "tactic", it's murder. They don't engage in the launching of rockets into civilian neighborhoods as a means to reacquire the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They launch those rockets for one reason, and one reason only... to kill the Jews. Just tune in to their state run television and they make it quite clear that the killing Jews is the duty of not only of every Palestinian, but of every Muslim.

If the Palestinians were only interested in the land, they could have had that many years ago. The Israeli's have agreed to many cease fires to negotiate the return of the West Bank and Gaza Strip on several occasions over the years, only to watch as the Palestinians break every single one them. Their actions have made it clear that their desire to murder Jews, is much stronger than their desire for land, having their own state, or lasting peace.

talking to you is like talking to a pre progammed machine with only one response...

[stefan segal]

Good for the Palestinians!
I know that if someone came and stole your land radiodud, and murdered your family, and bulldozed your village, that you would cower under the nearest rock and let them have it. But the Palestinians are not like that, they are brave in the face of the murdering Israeli juggernaut. After over 50 years of theft, murder bordering on genocide, and now apartheid, the Palestinians have not lost their will to live. We can only hope they get as many of the Murdering Zionist bastards as possible before there is a lasting peace.

username...while you safely sit at your keyboard and cheer on the process of killing and death for both sides, do you fantasize in your wildest dreams that palestinians can or will randomly kill enough Jews that the Jews pack up and go to south america?

Does your mental processing forecast anything more than more and greater deaths?

Can your mind encompass the actuality that if palestinians become a more hazardous threat, the Jews will simply upgrade the level of thier weapons used...meaning they will simply utilize bigger bombs on more palestinians at more frequent intervals.

Do you doubt this? What would you do in similar circumstances?

I would assume you have the intelligence to scratch if you have an itch...well so it is with everyone else.

This sustained situation of low grade back and forth killing exists primerally due to world press and the UN arab vote. This precludes the neccessary action to quell the killing...but only while Isreal deems world opinion more important than fixing the problem forcefully. The wall is a response that might contain some of the problem without too much flack from the world of assholes with whom you rest in good standing.

The main problem with the palestinians (aside from genetic insanity) is, like you, they have a shortage of common sense. If one has a conflict with a heavily armed pissed off opponet, you don't offer to physically fight, but you talk about negotiation and justice and courts of law...especiall if that mightily armed opponet keeps offering just such a venue.

It is only the asshole who sneaks up to repeatedly poke his thumb in Jew's eye...and palestinians and their cheerleaders are just such assholes...this is the problem with applying reason to social problems...if the problem lies with an unreasoning source...akin to arguing with a woman who suddenly goes hysterical; you don't want to hurt her, but by the same token you don't want be hurt either. If the stakes increase, then so does the response.

Stefan

Stefan

[UserName]

Yawn!


History teaches us that very aggressive regimes that repeatedly and ruthlessly attack other countries without regard for human life are eventually defeated. Nazi Germany and Napoleon's France and soon the murderous Israelis are some examples.

The Israelis underestimate the tenacity of the people in the countries they have attacked. Their racist beliefs are evident - they feel they are dealing with inferior people, and so can do whatever they want to them. But they will eventually be proven wrong - what they have done is stirred up a great deal of anger, and created a determination on the part of the Lebanese, Palestinians, Syrians, Iranians and others who have come to realize they must resist in order to survive.

World opinion is rapidly turning against the thieving murderous Israelis and pressure is beginning to mount on the arrogant bastards to cease their apartheid agenda. It's time Israel stopped their thieving ways, if they can, and stop attacking their neighbors. There is no doubt the Middle East would be a lot safer place without the bloodthirsty Zionists there.

[Islam Rocks!]

There is NO Palestine, you Nazi. Just a name made up for ISRAEL to try and give credence to the LIE that there is actually a PaleNazi race of pukes.You really should try looking at a history book sometime Nuclearian.

After the Romans defeated the Jewish rebellion in 135 A.D.

They kicked out all of the remaining Jews in the Holy Land and renamed the country "Palestine".

The land was called Palestine for the next "1800 years".

In 1948 the land was stolen by the Zionists and remaned Israel.

[Islam Rocks!]

If one has a conflict with a heavily armed pissed off opponet, you don't offer to physically fight, but you talk about negotiation and justice and courts of law

Hey Stefan Segal I sure wouldn't want to be a member of your family if there was a home invasion.

So while the Thugs stabbed your wife and raped your daughters.

You would try to negotiate as they beat your ass and took your money?

[stefan segal]

QUOTE=UserName]Yawn!
History teaches us that very aggressive regimes that repeatedly and ruthlessly attack other countries without regard for human life are eventually defeated. Nazi Germany and Napoleon's France and soon the murderous Israelis are some examples.

The Israelis underestimate the tenacity of the people in the countries they have attacked. Their racist beliefs are evident - they feel they are dealing with inferior people, and so can do whatever they want to them. But they will eventually be proven wrong - what they have done is stirred up a great deal of anger, and created a determination on the part of the Lebanese, Palestinians, Syrians, Iranians and others who have come to realize they must resist in order to survive.


username...muslims teach preteens to kill Jews...it is designed into their culture.

Your intellectualisms don't mean shit.. and your ignorance or deliberate misinterpretation of what is going on between Isreal and palestine doesn't forward discussion.

I personally believe that it is useless to negotiate with the palestinians. I see that any concessions arrived at through this process is upheld only by the Isrealis, while the palestinians consider their gain a bribe for clemancy without any responsibility or intention to fulfill thier part of the agreement.

I feel they should be fenced off from civilized people, and if the Isrealis need labor, they should import our illegal aleins and shut out palestinians from passing through into Isreal.

The Isrealis are saddled with a very bad neighbor. Intensified contact only exacerbates it has never proven equitable.

To deal with the rockets, they should have high altitude drones track and blow their asses loose...other than that, they should leave them kill each other and sink in their own swill.

Stefan

[stefan segal]

You really should try looking at a history book sometime Nuclearian.

After the Romans defeated the Jewish rebellion in 135 A.D.

They kicked out all of the remaining Jews in the Holy Land and renamed the country "Palestine".

The land was called Palestine for the next "1800 years".

In 1948 the land was stolen by the Zionists and remaned Israel.

islam...why don't you move up into history that holds some meaning to the situation.

The palestinians sneak attacked Isreal...Isreal responded to the mass attack, including the palestinians, and kicked their collective ass.

Live with it...the arabs LOST.

This loosing of wars is played out in history...all of history as a title for title contest...you loose and you also loose title to control or own.

Isreal gave title back to the arabs...Isreal is not into imperialism...they just want to live their own lives without being murdered in their livingrooms.

No arab country wanted the palestinians, as they are a fractious bunch and cause trouble wherever they land...it was generally decided to plunk them into where palestine is today.

Before arafatt sold them on the idea of a nationality, they were a bunch of tribal groups competing with each other. They didn't have a history of revolution like our country...if fact Washington strongly resisted everytime it was attempted to strap a keg of gunpowder to his back...

So if you want to go into history, you must accept the fact that the Isrealis allowed the palestinians to come back...that the Isrealis having beaten them and they having run off, didn't want their land...and still don't.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

islam...why don't you move up into history that holds some meaning to the situation.

The palestinians sneak attacked Isreal...Isreal responded to the mass attack, including the palestinians, and kicked their collective ass.

Live with it...the arabs LOST.

This loosing of wars is played out in history...all of history as a title for title contest...you loose and you also loose title to control or own.

Isreal gave title back to the arabs...Isreal is not into imperialism...they just want to live their own lives without being murdered in their livingrooms.

No arab country wanted the palestinians, as they are a fractious bunch and cause trouble wherever they land...it was generally decided to plunk them into where palestine is today.

Before arafatt sold them on the idea of a nationality, they were a bunch of tribal groups competing with each other. They didn't have a history of revolution like our country...if fact Washington strongly resisted everytime it was attempted to strap a keg of gunpowder to his back...

So if you want to go into history, you must accept the fact that the Isrealis allowed the palestinians to come back...that the Isrealis having beaten them and they having run off, didn't want their land...and still don't.

StefanThis has GOT to be the CRAZYIST post I have ever read!!!!:lmao2:

People kept trying to strap a keg of gunpowder on George Washingtons back!!!!!!!

The Palestanians don't want their land back and never did!?!?!?!

This must be a history lesson based on mega doses of Prozac................:disbelief:

[asroc]

yawn......

[Nuclearian]

Good for the Palestinians!
I know that if someone came and stole your land radiodud, and murdered your family, and bulldozed your village, that you would cower under the nearest rock and let them have it. But the Palestinians are not like that, they are brave in the face of the murdering Israeli juggernaut. After over 50 years of theft, murder bordering on genocide, and now apartheid, the Palestinians have not lost their will to live. We can only hope they get as many of the Murdering Zionist bastards as possible before there is a lasting peace.
Thats NOT the case here. The jews did not steal any land. They own the land. If I bomb your property because i "claimed" to own it (even though I don't), then you would retaliate against me the usurper.
There NEVER was a "legitimate" Palestine. It was named that by the occupying Brits to appease the arab nazi's. Renaming something another name does not negate the "legitimate" people from taking it and naming it what it actually it. This case it being ISRAEL.

[Nuclearian]

You really should try looking at a history book sometime Nuclearian.

After the Romans defeated the Jewish rebellion in 135 A.D.

They kicked out all of the remaining Jews in the Holy Land and renamed the country "Palestine".

The land was called Palestine for the next "1800 years".

In 1948 the land was stolen by the Zionists and remaned Israel.
Thus my argument. just because the Romans kicked them out, does not illigitimize their claim to it. Just because we conquered the Native Americans in this land, doesn't mean that it is not legitimately theirs.

[UserName]

Thats NOT the case here. The jews did not steal any land. They own the land. If I bomb your property because i "claimed" to own it (even though I don't), then you would retaliate against me the usurper.
There NEVER was a "legitimate" Palestine. It was named that by the occupying Brits to appease the arab nazi's. Renaming something another name does not negate the "legitimate" people from taking it and naming it what it actually it. This case it being ISRAEL.

I realize that you don't have the capacity to research the facts, and the word of your local Rabbi is as good as any Mullah's, but the 429 UN resolutions passed against Israel, and the recent land maps produced, show that Israelis are nothing more than common thieves and bloodthirsty murderers.

http://alpinestar.gnn.tv/_var/blogs/17217-349208a0a9e2c4fb9ca307c06588937b.jpg

[stefan segal]

username...your maps are a great tutorial to diswade palestinians from attacking Isreal. As I mentioned earlier...its title for title when you attack a country and attempt to anihilate them all...drive the Jews into the sea.

This is not a prank the un can step in and make like no one died...kiss and make up.

palestininans need to stop functioning like angry teenagers. If they pretend to be a nation, then they must play by international rules. After learning not to sneak attack civilians of a Nation that could clean your slate, the need to learn to keep their treaties...give their word and keep it as if it actually had any meaning.

The palestinan position is that Isreal doesn't exist as a nation...that they are a breed of squaters the palistinians are forced to endure temporarily. This is what they are taught....this is what their laws enforce.

With this level of unreality in an opposition group, what possible negotiations could be achieved?

What options exist to stop these madmen from firing rockets and sending their children to blow themselve and as many civilians up as is possible?

If I were living under such conditions, I certainly wouldn't be concerned with the cheerleader chatter going on in this list...they would obviously be the enemy and a threat to all. In this sceanerio, my thoughts would be akin to stepping on a roach on the kitchen floor.

By comparison, it is astounding to me the restraint displayed by the Isreali forces. That assholes think and write the shit they have on this list with impunity, also is astounding to me...but then I am simple minded...you murder my children...I murder you...whoever is left standing can chat about it later.

You cheerleaders see what emotions are kindled with your hate talk...some of us listen...and all of us have learned. Its best that sort of venue is set aside for a more civilized approach.

I believe the wall is the best hope. There has been more than fifty years of attempting to resolve this situation through reason, but obviously it has failed...big failures, and smaller failures, but never any solution that can counter the hatred of the arab against the Jew.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

Actually Stefan Segal the first initionals of your name says everything about you.

the Schutzstaffel "SS"

[UserName]

palestininans need to stop functioning like angry teenagers. If they pretend to be a nation, then they must play by international rules. After learning not to sneak attack civilians of a Nation that could clean your slate, the need to learn to keep their treaties...give their word and keep it as if it actually had any meaning.
Perhaps the thieving Israelis should also keep their word. The Israeli cabinet secretly decided to seize land in July of 2004 from the Palestinians to build the Zionist apartheid wall. This is just one instance of many where the thieves steal from the Palestinians and then cry when the Palestinians fight back.

The palestinan position is that Isreal doesn't exist as a nation...that they are a breed of squaters the palistinians are forced to endure temporarily. This is what they are taught....this is what their laws enforce.

It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do.
And how can the Palestinians be asked to "recognize" Israel when Israel has stubbornly refused to declare its own borders.


What options exist to stop these madmen from firing rockets and sending their children to blow themselve and as many civilians up as is possible?
Try and stop stealing Palestinian land. Why not give that a try?


I believe the wall is the best hope. There has been more than fifty years of attempting to resolve this situation through reason, but obviously it has failed...big failures, and smaller failures,

In the UN General Assembly, 429 resolutions against Israel were passed, and Israel was condemned 321 times. From 1967 to 1989 the UN Security Council passed 131 resolutions directly dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Of the 131 resolutions passed, 43 could be considered neutral while the remaining 88 either criticized and opposed the actions of Israel or judged against its interests. Nearly half of the 88 resolutions against Israel "condemned," "censured," or "deplored" the Israeli state or its actions.

Conversely, the General Assembly passed 2 resolutions, and the Security Council passed 5 resolutions, concerning Palestine.

I am just astounded that all this oppression, thievery, and murder perpetrated by the Israelis is just starting to come to light.

[stefan segal]

Perhaps the thieving Israelis should also keep their word. The Israeli cabinet secretly decided to seize land in July of 2004 from the Palestinians to build the Zionist apartheid wall. This is just one instance of many where the thieves steal from the Palestinians and then cry when the Palestinians fight back.
================================================== =======
username...what was taken was done due to building demands...it is impossible to build around every jut and jog. For this same reason, Isreali land was also sacrificed to the wrong side of the wall.
================================================== =======
It is literally meaningless for a non-state to "recognize" a state. Moreover, in diplomacy, such recognition is supposed to be mutual. In order to earn its own recognition, Israel would have to simultaneously recognize the state of Palestine. This it steadfastly refuses to do.
And how can the Palestinians be asked to "recognize" Israel when Israel has stubbornly refused to declare its own borders.
================================================== =======
username...you suffer from a dearth of reality. If palestine were to become a nation they would immediately form an army with all the arab states arming them with state of the art weaponry.
Isreal would then be forced from their policing job to one of warfare, which would most likely set off the wholle area.

When Isreal okayed a palestinian police force to keep order internally on their streets, the police force doubled as a terrorists force...they became arofatt's black ops unit.

It is my understanding that Isreal's political climate is split on this...when David returns, he could answer this intelligently.
================================================== =======

In the UN General Assembly, 429 resolutions against Israel were passed, and Israel was condemned 321 times. From 1967 to 1989 the UN Security Council passed 131 resolutions directly dealing with the Arab-Israeli conflict. Of the 131 resolutions passed, 43 could be considered neutral while the remaining 88 either criticized and opposed the actions of Israel or judged against its interests. Nearly half of the 88 resolutions against Israel "condemned," "censured," or "deplored" the Israeli state or its actions.

Conversely, the General Assembly passed 2 resolutions, and the Security Council passed 5 resolutions, concerning Palestine.
================================================== ========
If you assess the voting configuration at the UN, you will see that muslems are well numbered in the group, and in question involving Isreal, they vote in a block...so it doesn't surprise me.

That Isreal does what it believes will provide its people with security is not only logical, but mandatory.
They live amongst neighbors who have sworn and do swear to anihilate them.

Compared to their reality every minute of every day, the opinions of outsiders casusally looking on in their suits and ties offering opinions, doesn't amount to much in terms of life and death.

The UN has a history of leaning on Isreal every time Isreal is attacked...sneak attacked...consequently Isreal doesn't generally take its suggestions.

Isreal does however, give back the territories it captures, with the exception of those stratigic to its security. All a logical necessity toward survival.

It is only this generation and its sires who don't war for territory...our wars are idiological these days (corporate wars), but Isreal's wars are to combat their own genacide...this is a different type of war...this is a war that cannot be lost...there are no terms available...no fallback position...the arabs want it all.

This is why there is no level of negotiations available. This is why the palestinians don't keep their side of those negotiations agreed upon but with the Isrealis being the only side that performs as per agreement, with the palestinians taking what is offered as a triumph of their cunning and giving nothing of their obligation in return.

You take it upon yourselves to sit in judgement of the Isrealis...you should live in Isreal and see what its like to walk the streets never knowing if you are a target.

When children are taught to kill Isrealis as a manner to earn allah's special praise...and get your survivng family money in payment for your death by taking out Isrealis, you wind up with some seriously distorted minds. Further, the population is very youthful overall...these young adults have been bent to hate...their geography books don't show Isreal on their maps, they cheer when something horrific is done to Isreali civilians...cheer in the streets over a mass murder of non combatants. This population is mentally ill...they have a lord of the flies immaturity...they are dangerous humans.

I don't see any remedy for a reasonable life save for the wall...but I personally feel they shouldn't allow palestinians through the gates for any reason. Isrealis should get other workers and not risk even the ones who appear sane because they flip out for allah...they're not mentally stable by training and design.

Before you go to the trouble to tell me I'm nuts, don't bother...I realize my statements (the last couple) are over the top, but I have had a lifetime of hearing plans that never even begin to work because there is nothing reciprical in them. The palistinians are angry...they have had the whole of the area for years and did nothing with them since the 12th century...everything they know about technology is from the West...andeven then they haven't done anything with what was handed them. The Asians take a beercan and in a weeks time it reaches our shores as a toy truck...Chinese, who also stopped progress as a leading nation, shifted and now send satilites up along with satilite killer rockets. The whole world has gotten off it ass except some arabs.

Isrealis bought the least arible land and planted trees...when I was a kid I donated every week to buy those trees...Isrealis built universities, labratories schools and hospitals...army and airforce and navy...made farms, and did it all in fifty years, even with needing to kick the ass of sneak attacks from arab armies.

Now palestinians live next to a first rate industralized country, and no amount of negotiations can satisfy their envey and hatred. The palistinian response to Isreal is on of complete genocide...and run them into the sea. This is what they openly promis to the world press.

In the West, we hear this and believe it's just talk for the street crowd...brash talk to save face...this is our interpretation...well think again...this is what the believe and literally mean to do.

Isreal must do its best at all times...there is no second chance available.

Stefan`

Stefan

[UserName]

username...what was taken was done due to building demands...it is impossible to build around every jut and jog. For this same reason, Isreali land was also sacrificed to the wrong side of the wall.
At one time your lies would have been just accepted, but not in this day and age.

By Yuval Azoulay, Haaretz Correspondent
"UNITED NATIONS - Israel is building its barrier on West Bank land not to keep out suicide bombers but to confiscate the land and put pressure on Palestinians to move away, a UN human rights investigator said on Friday.

"There is no compelling evidence that suicide bombers could not have been as effectively prevented from entering Israel if the wall had been built along the Green Line - the accepted border between Israel and Palestine - or within the Israeli side of the Green Line," John Dugard said in a report to the UN General Assembly.

"The course of the wall clearly indicates that its purpose is to incorporate as many settlers as possible into Israel," said Dugard, a South African law professor charged with monitoring the West Bank and Gaza Strip by the Geneva-based UN Commission on Human Rights.

"This is borne out by the fact that some 80 percent of settlers in the West Bank will be included on the Israeli side of the wall," he said."

username...you suffer from a dearth of reality. If palestine were to become a nation they would immediately form an army with all the arab states arming them with state of the art weaponry.
Isreal would then be forced from their policing job to one of warfare, which would most likely set off the wholle area.

And you know this... how? Do you have a crystal ball? A Ouiji Board? Or is this just more hate-filled Israeli speculation? If you stopped stealing their land, murdering their families, and bulldozing their villages, maybe they would have no reason to want to wipe you off the map. Did you ever consider that simple fact?


If you assess the voting configuration at the UN, you will see that muslems are well numbered in the group, and in question involving Isreal, they vote in a block...so it doesn't surprise me.


Another lie. You obviously know nothing about the UN or how it operates. Most of the resolutions were drafted by non-Arab nations and voted on in the Security Council. Votes clearly show that all nations voted for the resolutions but the US carried the veto.
examples;
deplored Israel's continued disregard of relevant Security Council decisions. 2/17/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Condemned Israeli policies and practices in the occupied territories. 6/9/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Deplored Israel's policies and practices in the occupied territories. 11/7/1989 Vetoed 14-1 (US)
Calls upon Israeli authorities to refrain from all actions or measures, including settlement activities. 3/7/1997 Vetoed 14-1 (US)

These are easy to find on the net and one does not need to listen to the Israeli lies any longer.


This is why there is no level of negotiations available. This is why the palestinians don't keep their side of those negotiations agreed upon but with the Isrealis being the only side that performs as per agreement, with the palestinians taking what is offered as a triumph of their cunning and giving nothing of their obligation in return.

Another lie. Israel has broken nearly every agreement they have ever made, from their theft of land to holding back Palestinian funds, from turning off the electricity to blockading their ports. Israel justifies their action by saying it was in retaliation to some Palestinian attack, but these Palestinian attacks are in retaliation to Israeli attacks which are never justified. The Israelis are nothing more than common thieves and bloodthirsty criminals.
Israel simply needs this conflict to ensure they get the monthly welfare check from the US.


When children are taught to kill Isrealis as a manner to earn allah's special praise...and get your survivng family money in payment for your death by taking out Isrealis, you wind up with some seriously distorted minds.

Yet Israel is happy to teach their children to hate Palestinians. They even get their children to send hate filled messages on explosive ordinance. The only difference between Israeli terrorist attacks and Palestinian terrorist attacks is the delivery system.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7760/1663/1600/more%20girls%20signing%20bombs.9.jpg


But what I find most disgusting of all the Zionist whining and crying is that Israel wants the Palestinians, half of whom were driven from their homeland so that a Jewish state could be created in 1948, to recognize not merely that it exists (which is undeniable) but that it is "right" that it exists — that it was right for them to have been dispossessed of their homes, their property and their livelihoods so that a Jewish state could be created on their land. The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
This clearly demonstrates the arrogance of the blood-thirsty Zionists and their disdain for any semblance of peace in the middle East.

[stefan segal]

username...your take on reality is too far distant from what I understand to be true. I see the our interplay is simply a pissing contest without any possible foreward movement.

I also see that someone...some unknown someone gives an opinion you like and suddenly it becomes your fact.

My brother has the patience to deal with your level of nonsense. He, unlike I, remember all the 'who struck johns', when where and why. I on the other hand am heartsick with Isreal's continual difficulties with a population dedicated to Isreal's destruction.

You have read a sizeable amount of Western interpratations into the palestinian acts and rhetoric...I don't blame you for that, as it is what and how we understand...what I whole heartedly blame you for is your contumaciously one sided viewpoint.

The clash between these two is cultural. It has similarities to americans and Native Americans. The large difference lies in the fact that the Isrealis didn't act from a point of strength, but slowly bought and grew by their law and by labor to make Isreal a nation...but the clash of worldviews remains.

What country cuts off a thief's hands? What country allows women who go against the laws of their god be killed by their family patriarch? These acts aren't of the current century...people don't send their children off to kill themselves and others...this is not civilization as it is understood by Westerners...but it is these people who demand everything but are willing to give nothing in return.

This is why I'm not going to answer your nonsense point by point...there is no sense in the act...and you are too determinedly ignorant to touch with the light of fact.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

"SS"

Some day the Hamas and Hezbollah Freedom Fighters will defeat the fascist, evil, Zionists. And Israel will just be a footnote in the history books,

What a wonderful and gloryious day that will be!!!!

[UserName]

username...your take on reality is too far distant from what I understand to be true. I see the our interplay is simply a pissing contest without any possible foreward movement.
You keep saying my reality is skewed, but you offer nothing, nothing as proof to the contrary. Why is that? Could it be because everything I have said is true and can be verified with a modicum of research?

I also see that someone...some unknown someone gives an opinion you like and suddenly it becomes your fact.
What I offer are facts, facts that can be verified, facts that are accepted worldwide, facts that the UN accepts, facts that Human Rights groups accept, and facts published in Haaretz.

My brother has the patience to deal with your level of nonsense. He, unlike I, remember all the 'who struck johns', when where and why. I on the other hand am heartsick with Isreal's continual difficulties with a population dedicated to Isreal's destruction.

This is what would be called an opinion. I am sure your brother could tell me all sorts of stories, but maybe he should sit down with a Palestinian who has had his home taken away, his family murdered, his life turned upside down. I'm sure he would love to hear how bad off your poor brother is.

You have read a sizeable amount of Western interpratations into the palestinian acts and rhetoric...I don't blame you for that, as it is what and how we understand...what I whole heartedly blame you for is your contumaciously one sided viewpoint.

Don't get me wrong here Stefan, I'm not impressed with either group. But I find it difficult to idly sit by while the Israelis do as they damn well please to the Palestinian population. You were given a wonderful opportunity to have a country of you own, but your continued theft of land outside the green zone, your destruction of Palestinian villages outside the green zone, and your wanton murder of Palestinian men, women and children is simply despicable. This is not "western interpretation" my friend.... it is verifiable fact!

The clash between these two is cultural. It has similarities to americans and Native Americans. The large difference lies in the fact that the Isrealis didn't act from a point of strength, but slowly bought and grew by their law and by labor to make Isreal a nation...but the clash of worldviews remains.
What happened to Native Americans is simply deplorable. We are still trying to fix the mistakes. Just like what happened to Jews during the second world war is despicable. We try and learn from our mistakes and make sure they never happen again. But the theft of land and the genocide of an ethnic group continues to this day. And it is the Israelis who are the perpetrators.



What country cuts off a thief's hands? What country allows women who go against the laws of their god be killed by their family patriarch? These acts aren't of the current century...people don't send their children off to kill themselves and others...this is not civilization as it is understood by Westerners...but it is these people who demand everything but are willing to give nothing in return.

What country throws innocent people in prison.... forever? What country bulldozes entire villages in their neighbors territories and puts up settlements of their own? What country puts up apartheid walls with the sole purpose of angering their neighbors? What religious group considers all people who do not belong to their faith as nothing more than "animals"?

These Palestinians do despicable things not because they are determined, but because they are desperate.

[stefan segal]

username...No one but the loosers of the war they perpetrated, speak of the green line...that was history years ago.

That the palestinaians wish to take occupation of Isreali developed land is nothing new...and no less rediculous.

To speak from the palestinian point of view, if they could obtain the land to the green line, it would only mean there is less land needing to be cleared of Isrealis.

Did you think if the Isrealis agreed to such a nonsense claim that all would be quiet...that peace would reign? I believe you do.

Your story about the palestinian loosing his home is touching...of course Isrealis could match it and raise the stakes, but the who struck John of this saga goes on forever spewing victims everywhere as it goes.

The Isrealis feel they have the right to their land and the right to live in safety.



The palestinians feel the Isrealis don't have the right to any land, regardless if they've paid for it in cash or blood, and only live because palestinians haven't been able to kill them...yet.

username, you can't be so callo as to believe there is a definable level or line..be it green or otherwise, from which palistenians will give up their dream to kill all the Isrealis.

They learn this on the streets, in their homes, and in particular, in their schools...this is a mantra...like a heartbeat...it is god and country...and it is also insane.

Rather than mumble a lot of: "so's yo mama"...show me that I'm wrong about the palestinian mindset.

Not your usual who struck john, but a picture of what good looks like for a palestinian...show what conditions a palistinian sees as job done.

It's not "taxation without representation"...it's not having their own corner candy store...their bottom line is Isreal swept of Jews...nothing less.

These people you feel so friendly with are either killers themselves or they support the killers. The moderate palestinians go so far as to specify that kill only Isrealis.

Stefan

[Nuclearian]

I realize that you don't have the capacity to research the facts, and the word of your local Rabbi is as good as any Mullah's, but the 429 UN resolutions passed against Israel, and the recent land maps produced, show that Israelis are nothing more than common thieves and bloodthirsty murderers.

http://alpinestar.gnn.tv/_var/blogs/17217-349208a0a9e2c4fb9ca307c06588937b.jpg
The UN? Don't make me laugh. They are more Racist against Israel than even you. Pals blow up innocent jews in THEIR own land, and the UN believes the Jews caused it.

[Nuclearian]

"SS"

Some day the Hamas and Hezbollah Freedom Fighters will defeat the fascist, evil, Zionists. And Israel will just be a footnote in the history books,

What a wonderful and gloryious day that will be!!!!
Actually, the Bible says that the Jews will be saved by God, and all the anti israelites will be cast into hell with THEIR God, Satan.

[Islam Rocks!]

Actually, the Bible says that the Jews will be saved by God, and all the anti israelites will be cast into hell with THEIR God, Satan.

What else would you expect a book written by Jews to say!!!!

[Nuclearian]

What else would you expect a book written by Jews to say!!!!
Jews inspired by God you Nazi. At least their book wasn't authored by a pedophile.

[Islam Rocks!]

Jews inspired by God you Nazi. At least their book wasn't authored by a pedophile.What's the matter Nookie did I hit a nerve?!?!

[Nuclearian]

Not at all. Feel good your UNholy prophet is a child rapist?

[Islam Rocks!]

Not at all. Feel good your UNholy prophet is a child rapist?That's and old accusation that has been refuted many times.

Have you got anything more origional or new?

[Nuclearian]

That's and old accusation that has been refuted many times.

Have you got anything more origional or new?
Well I am sorry you cannot accept the truth about your pedophiliac God. It may not be original, but the truth is the truth. As opposed to "your truth" that Jews stole the "non existent" Palestine from Palestinians who were NEVER a race.

[Islam Rocks!]

[QUOTE]Palestinians who were NEVER a race

That's silly Nookie! :lmao2:

Everyone is a member of a race. Black, white, red, yellow, or brown. :disbelief:

[UserName]

Well I am sorry you cannot accept the truth about your pedophiliac God. It may not be original, but the truth is the truth.

"My god is better than your god"!:lmao2: :lmao2:

I personally feel that giving yourself over to some deity is relinquishing responsibility for ones actions. You two prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Epicurus figured this simple fact out 2300 years ago.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

[stefan segal]

Well I am sorry you cannot accept the truth about your pedophiliac God. It may not be original, but the truth is the truth. As opposed to "your truth" that Jews stole the "non existent" Palestine from Palestinians who were NEVER a race.
================================================== ========

What Nucleanian say here is FACT...the palestinians are where they are becuse even other arab nations who housed them in their guilty flight threw them out because they atempted to usurp whatever government they were subject to.


As far as the pedophiliac goes...these people call any women a whore if their veil slips on the street...goats don't wear veils...and so are free game to these sexually repressed sickos. As far as gods go, I find they are cheaper in the good times and taken more seriously in the bad...but that's a poll of non thinkers and those without useful skills but still suffer great ambition.

The whole god thing is a scam to quiet individule thought and occupy the mind with an ill tempered santa clause.

Those without power to improve thier options turn to an unseen savior...it does quiet those not in the habit or circumstances allowing improvement in their lives.

By the same token, and with more physical evidence than conceptual, is to blame all their short-commings on the Isrealis aka Jews.

The great benefit this belief allows in contrast to god and his endless supply of virgins, is that one...you needn't die first, and two, you can actually keep score, and three...you can lie and cheat to make the score look good to you..the keeper and auditor of that score.

With a deal like that...who wouldn't join the game of hating Jews?

Stefan

[UserName]

So this conflict is all about some invisible god?? :confused:

The trouble is that all too often in human history, religions have set themselves up to rule people's lives in the name of some invisible god (and they're all invisible, because they don't exist) -- and done terrible damage.

In the name of their god, they have burned, hanged, tortured, maimed, robbed, violated, and enslaved millions of their fellow creatures, and done so with the happy conviction that they were doing the will of God, and they would go to Heaven for it.

[stefan segal]

So this conflict is all about some invisible god?? :confused:

The trouble is that all too often in human history, religions have set themselves up to rule people's lives in the name of some invisible god (and they're all invisible, because they don't exist) -- and done terrible damage.

In the name of their god, they have burned, hanged, tortured, maimed, robbed, violated, and enslaved millions of their fellow creatures, and done so with the happy conviction that they were doing the will of God, and they would go to Heaven for it.
================================================== ========

I agree with all you have said pertaining to gods, except that I feel that Isreali-hatred serves functionally the promises of their god...in as much as they keep a running score on how they're do with their god, with the great benifit of being physically actual.

In other words, you can kill an Isreali and you up your score against all the evils life has saddled you with...as they are trained to believe all their present ills are from Isrealis.

All good comes from allah...all ill comes from Isreal and the cursed Jews.

I appears to be a parrallel belief pattern...both lines of thought without merit, but who cares...certainly not the arabs.

Stefan

[UserName]

================================================== ========

I agree with all you have said pertaining to gods, except that I feel that Isreali-hatred serves functionally the promises of their god...in as much as they keep a running score on how they're do with their god, with the great benifit of being physically actual.

In other words, you can kill an Isreali and you up your score against all the evils life has saddled you with...as they are trained to believe all their present ills are from Isrealis.

All good comes from allah...all ill comes from Isreal and the cursed Jews.

I appears to be a parrallel belief pattern...both lines of thought without merit, but who cares...certainly not the arabs.

Stefan


It would appear that Religious hatred runs deep in more than just Islam.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2O9W3UsdRyM

Nether one of your religions is worth the shit stuck to your anal hairs.

[Nuclearian]

[QUOTE=Nuclearian]

That's silly Nookie! :lmao2:

Everyone is a member of a race. Black, white, red, yellow, or brown. :disbelief:
Palestinians are ARABS! they are not palestinians, because there never was a palestinian race. Now if they claim to be arabs, then i would agree with them.

[stefan segal]

username...I see where you get your information...straight from from the mouths of street punks.

I assume you offered this "evidence" up as proving only Isrealis have delinquent kids with no experience and bad attitudes. You need more than luck to sail that boat :)

This is of course nonsense, and you realize it as well as any adult would,...it is a testemony of bad faith debating.

Also, my reference was to all religions and their foundational concepts...all organized religions...I don't know where you got the either or idea...unless you simply didn't understand that I was speaking of their national hatred of Isreal/Jews functioning parrallel to their function of religion.

That is not a semenal concept...it simply struck me as curious...a social curiosity, as in the study of a strange species...although I suspect it sources from the same instinct that demands religiosity...which might be interesting but not a tool for remedy.

Stefan

[Nuclearian]

================================================== ========

What Nucleanian say here is FACT...the palestinians are where they are becuse even other arab nations who housed them in their guilty flight threw them out because they atempted to usurp whatever government they were subject to.


As far as the pedophiliac goes...these people call any women a whore if their veil slips on the street...goats don't wear veils...and so are free game to these sexually repressed sickos. As far as gods go, I find they are cheaper in the good times and taken more seriously in the bad...but that's a poll of non thinkers and those without useful skills but still suffer great ambition.

The whole god thing is a scam to quiet individule thought and occupy the mind with an ill tempered santa clause.

Those without power to improve thier options turn to an unseen savior...it does quiet those not in the habit or circumstances allowing improvement in their lives.

By the same token, and with more physical evidence than conceptual, is to blame all their short-commings on the Isrealis aka Jews.

The great benefit this belief allows in contrast to god and his endless supply of virgins, is that one...you needn't die first, and two, you can actually keep score, and three...you can lie and cheat to make the score look good to you..the keeper and auditor of that score.

With a deal like that...who wouldn't join the game of hating Jews?

Stefan
And leys not forget the woman in Saudi Arabia that is going to receive 200 lashes for the offesne of being raped. Such a peaceful and malevolent religion Islam is.

[UserName]

And for all your Christian friends.....

"The Jewish Talmud teaches Jews that Jesus is an "idol" and that Christians are "idol worshipers". The Jewish Talmud instructs Jews to behead idol worshipers. Racist Jews intend to impose the Noahide Laws in the End Times and exterminate all Christians, pursuant to the Jewish Talmud in the book of Sanhedrin folios 56a-60b (note that the Talmud was written by "the scribes and Pharisees" whom Jesus condemned in the New Testament: Matthew 22; 23. Mark 7; 12:38-40. Luke 11. John 8)

Seems both the Islamic and Judaic religions want to eliminate the Christians.


"Jews believe that Jesus was the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier, who learned witchcraft in Egypt, and who beguiled Jews to worship him as an idol. While this myth is more fully enunciated in the Toledoth Jeshua, the Talmud also iterates similar beliefs in Shabbath 104b"

The more I research Judaism, the more creepy it becomes. We all know how much you hate Muslims, but why do you folks hate Christians so much?

[Nuclearian]

And for all your Christian friends.....

"The Jewish Talmud teaches Jews that Jesus is an "idol" and that Christians are "idol worshipers". The Jewish Talmud instructs Jews to behead idol worshipers. Racist Jews intend to impose the Noahide Laws in the End Times and exterminate all Christians, pursuant to the Jewish Talmud in the book of Sanhedrin folios 56a-60b (note that the Talmud was written by "the scribes and Pharisees" whom Jesus condemned in the New Testament: Matthew 22; 23. Mark 7; 12:38-40. Luke 11. John 8)

Seems both the Islamic and Judaic religions want to eliminate the Christians.


"Jews believe that Jesus was the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier, who learned witchcraft in Egypt, and who beguiled Jews to worship him as an idol. While this myth is more fully enunciated in the Toledoth Jeshua, the Talmud also iterates similar beliefs in Shabbath 104b"

The more I research Judaism, the more creepy it becomes. We all know how much you hate Muslims, but why do you folks hate Christians so much?
Who hates Christians? i am one. Besides, God says he will cruse those who curse his people (Jews), and bless those that bless them. Jews are not believers in the TRUE Messiah, Jesus, but there will be a future time when they KNOW he is the Messiah.

[Islam Rocks!]

================================================== ========

[QUOTE]What Nucleanian say here is FACT........Stefan Segal

We have Nitt-Whitt #1 Stefan Segal agreeing with Nitt-Whitt #2 Nucleanian

Now that''s a pair made in Wacky Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lmao2:

[stefan segal]

And for all your Christian friends.....

"The Jewish Talmud teaches Jews that Jesus is an "idol" and that Christians are "idol worshipers". The Jewish Talmud instructs Jews to behead idol worshipers. Racist Jews intend to impose the Noahide Laws in the End Times and exterminate all Christians, pursuant to the Jewish Talmud in the book of Sanhedrin folios 56a-60b (note that the Talmud was written by "the scribes and Pharisees" whom Jesus condemned in the New Testament: Matthew 22; 23. Mark 7; 12:38-40. Luke 11. John 8)

Seems both the Islamic and Judaic religions want to eliminate the Christians.


"Jews believe that Jesus was the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier, who learned witchcraft in Egypt, and who beguiled Jews to worship him as an idol. While this myth is more fully enunciated in the Toledoth Jeshua, the Talmud also iterates similar beliefs in Shabbath 104b"

The more I research Judaism, the more creepy it becomes. We all know how much you hate Muslims, but why do you folks hate Christians so much?


username...Great point! You have pointed out that the 'old time religions' weren't very politically correct... not that I personally give a shit, but his point is instructive non the less.

userbname,,,you are really prostituting your "honor" saying that there are fundamentalists who plan to get nasty in the "end times" :)

What poor humor...you list some shit in the talmud that no Jew in his right ming would ever dream of doing to another...this includes christians...a non fact that is to be compared muslim street life, where the family patriarch is expected to kill their own children in keeping with the koran????

Weh I mentioned thieves getting their hands chopped off and legally raping women who displease allah...as judged and witnessed by the rapist...I am not speaking of archaic biblical law telling christians to sacrifice their first bprns or stone their neighbor's wife in the street...I was mentioning and onging active process of our palestinian neighbors.

My reason for displaying their rudimentary progress toward humanity and civilization as we know and recognize such today, was to make this very point...that these palestinians aren't culturally mature to the degree of entering a or ANY contract with a Isreali that they intend to honor and keep.

Another general cultural point or two is that what we would send an officeholder to jail for here in civilization, in their culture if one doesn't bribe that office holder with a gift, you don't get past the secratary...then if what you want done is meaningful, then another consideration is required...this one in appreciation that he is doing his job.

Another cultural difference between east and western minds, is thier business form differs in the fact that Isreal, although having a preponderane of Jews as citizens, still maintains a secular government and is in fact a western country irrespective of its local...whereas palestinians are eastern always overstate thier price sand whine and cry about misfortune visited upon them to make personal feeling a part of daily commerce.

This whinning and crying is inherant in a palestinian's self image...regardless how they are attired...modern western or in robes...you begin by shooting for the moon, and retreat from this irrational price of doing business kicking and clawing...determined to get the better of the other by any means available.

This system has lasted for centuries because only non-arabs get cheated by the game. Westerners can't look and listen to such agonies without losing ground...even when they are aware of what is going on.,.these arabs never break character until afterward in the company of their friends do they laugh at the sucker who bought thier act and paid double the value.

username...did you buy the stories???:) How much are you overpaying:)

To me you sound wide-eyed and stupid...watch your anus...these guys are pederasts...pederasts with no taste at all...its between you and the goat.

I don't know how to wish you well. as wining is loosing with these guys...that's why I'm for the wall. I am perfectly happy that they live any life they choose, and allow me and mine to do likewise...

Its guys like you, when I think about it, that jump in and stir things up while knowing nothing about what is actually going on around you but spueing your opinion around as if you knew something while the palestinians simply wind you up with their sales whinings then set you loose to harass decent folk :)

You probably mean well...now that I think about it...just another dummy with onslought rectal problems. Them arabs are sneaky...

Stefan

[UserName]

I must have hit a sore point when I pointed out that the Jewish Talmud is as full of hate towards other religions as the Koran. I understand that both religions have a common origin, so I can see why there is so much hate taught to both groups.

Yes, I understand that you would prefer if everyone would just mind their own business and let the sickening Israeli criminals get on with their thieving, their murdering, and the genocide of Palestinians that the Israelis take so much pleasure in. But as the world discovers more and more of these atrocities committed by the Israelis against their neighbors, you will be put under a lot more pressure to end your vulgar ways.

There are already campaigns worldwide to boycott Israeli goods, because as one country put it "Israel has consciously destroyed the Palestinian authority's infrastructure and undermined the autonomy on the West Bank". Many European countries have called for a UN peacekeeping force in the Middle East and urged the 15-member European Union to withdraw from a trade treaty with Israel.

We will have to see what happens in Annapolis as more Israeli atrocities will come to light. Syria will make the Golan Heights an issue for peace, so the thieving Israelis will be put under pressure to return what they have stolen yet again.

No, my friend, we will no longer turn a blind eye to Israeli hatred, thievery and murder. You will be exposed for the lying thieving rabble you have proven to be.

[Moby]

And leys not forget the woman in Saudi Arabia that is going to receive 200 lashes for the offesne of being raped. Such a peaceful and malevolent religion Islam is.
It wasn't that long ago in America when a woman would be abused for having the same thing done. We seem to forget our own past. Sure, maybe we've evolved 100 years more quickly but does that give us the right to judge?

We still have children hanging nooses in trees. Really, how enlightened are we?

[stefan segal]

Moby...point taken, but there is a matter of scale. The slave south didn't want to kill slaves...they simply wanted them to quietly work for them.

This palesrtinian (arab muslim) thing is vicious...it is not only Jews dead, but the pleasure of killing them themselves.

The circumstances and intentions are too different to make your comparison meaningful, other than humans have to apply themselves to be considered decent.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

[QUOTE]Moby...point taken, but there is a matter of scale. The slave south didn't want to kill slaves...they simply wanted them to quietly work for them.

That's what you would like you freakin Zionist Nazi.

For the Palestinians to be quiet dutiful slaves to their Jewish masters.

[stefan segal]

[QUOTE=stefan segal]

That's what you would like you freakin Zionist Nazi.

For the Palestinians to be quiet dutiful slaves to their Jewish masters.

islam...damn...you are a freak. Jews hire workers...palestinians want to work for wages.

My personal feeling that I stated previously here,is that palestinians shouldn't be allowed to enter Isreal to day work. This is the whole benefit of walling them off...but Isreal will still allow them entrance, and they will continue blowing up Isrealis.

islam...why would anyone want to have an angry person as a slave serving you breakfast?

Have you ever thought this through?

I guess you have, and this is what good looks like to you...you're not too swift are you.

Palestinians get 72 virgins from allah if they die killing Jews...I guess you believe this also...that is why you could make such a stupid statement about using palestinians as slaves.

People need fear for their future...fear of future pain or hardship to be slave material...if an idiot is just waiting for a chance to take out some Jews on his trip to allah, then he has no future to fear...just virgins...tits and ass virgins...gifts of allah who couldn't even get them laid on earth...what a sicko god...I see why you are attracted to these dumbos and their god...sort of mirrors your talents.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

...just virgins...tits and ass virgins...gifts of allah
I think you are just jealous Stefan Segal because you ain't geting any now or in the hereafter!!!!

[stefan segal]

I think you are just jealous Stefan Segal because you ain't geting any now or in the hereafter!!!!

islam...old age does change one's options...I am considering driving a 40d spike or two into my forehead to scramble my common sense to the point to where I too can accept the allah pipe dreams...as you appear to be a happy moron, and maybe I am being too factual in my approach to life.

Thanks for your concern:)

Stefan

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> If a Jew pokes fun at Jews, then everything is O.K. But if a gentile says the exact same thing. Then he is labeled an anti-semite and a Nazi.

Sorry, IR, but your lame attempt to dodge the consequences of your own words has only proven your own anti-Semitism. There wasn't any humor in your post (#1 in this thread); there was only a poorly constructed list of 36 race-baiting rumor-mongering and race-libels. You invoke Der Sturmer's ugly cartoon images of Jews

1. fixated on gold and diamonds,
2, fascinated with feces,
3. promoting pornography,
4. disloyal to the country of their birth,
5. rich,
6. monomaniacally self-absorbed with the laws of the Torah,
7. responsible for the revolution in Russia,
8. cheating gentiles in business,
9. having large noses,
10. in control of the United States government,
11. preying on gentile women for sex, and
12. bent on world domination.

No Jew would find any of these humorous; most would find them alarming. That they can be published on the internet -- and then defended -- only shows that America still has plenty of Jew-haters who are all too willing to inflame anti-Semitism until there are bodies of innocent victims again in the streets.

Your idiot compadre tried to rescue you by trying to make the list into something about Israel and the Zionists, but you were too stupid to accept his help. Your list has nothing to do with Israel and everything to do with turning the views of others into hatred for the Jews.

David Segal

[Jesse Hemingway]

Pre-history of Jewish control in Washington
What really happened links to this utterly amazing transcript of an Oct. 22, 1992 conversation with President David Steiner (DS) of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee recorded without his knowledge by New York businessman Haim (Harry) Katz (HK). Steiner had to resign when it was released. Remember that this was ten years before the Jews officially took control of Washington (my emphasis in red and green):





“DS: Well, let me tell you what my personal position is. Okay?



HK: Yeah.



DS: From a Jewish point of view, I believe in political loyalty.



HK: Right.



DS: And if someone has been good for Israel, no matter who, if my brother would run against them, I would support them because they'd been good to Israel because that's an important message to people.



HK: Right.”



and:





“DS: We commissioned a poll and got some people, and I've got to raise $27,000 to pay for the poll . . . so I have, so what I'm trying to do is make a priority list, because I don't know how far you want to go. . . how old are your kids by the way? . . . You had three children that could write checks, do they have their own checking accounts?



HK: Yes.



DS: Oh, so that's not going to be. . .



HK: How old do they have to be?



DS: They can't be one year old.



HK: I mean, could they be 18, 17?



DS: Sure, no problem, so they could make, nobody's going to bother you, but if you had infants, a four-year-old, let's say, it's not a contest.”



and:





“DS: Yeah! Well, we might lose him. There's been such a sea change, such trouble this year, I can't believe all our friends that are in trouble. Because there's an anti-incumbency mood, and foreign aid has not been popular. You know what I got for, I met with [U.S. Secretary of State] Jim Baker and I cut a deal with him. I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they're looking for the Jewish votes, and I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear. . .



HK: Right.



DS: Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don't even know about.



HK: Such as?



DS: $700 million in military draw-down, from equipment that the United States Army's going to give to Israel; $200 million the U.S. government is going to preposition materials in Israel, which Israel can draw upon; put them in the global warning protection system; so when if there's a missile fired, they'll get the same advanced notification that the U.S., is notified, joint military exercises – I've got a whole shopping list of things.



HK: So this is from Baker?



DS: From Baker and from the Pentagon.



HK: So, not so, not.. .



DS: Why did he do it, you know, why did he do it? Last year I was a bum. This year I said look Jim, we're going to fight on the F-l5s. Israel doesn't want to fight, I said, but some people on it are going to come up on the floor of the Senate and the House and they're going to fight. If you'll do this, I think I can hold them back. But you've got to do it right away. They didn't want to fight. I said, ‘You don't want a fight before the election. It's going to hurt Bush. We don't want a fight before the election. We don't want to fight at all. Why can't we work something out?’ So we cut a deal. You can't repeat this.



HK: You're right. But you met with Baker. . .



DS: Personally.



HK: Personally. Because you know, he's the one who cursed, who cursed the Jews.



DS: Of course, do you think I'm ever going to forgive him for that?



HK: Unbelievable. I said...



DS: Do you think I could ever forgive Bush for what he did September 12th a year ago? What he said about the Jews for lobbying in Washington?



HK: Do you think that Baker has a legitimate concern for the Jews? From what I hear, do you think he's anti-Semitic?



DS: I wouldn't go so far as to say that. He's a pragmatic businessman, he's a very tough lawyer. He does whatever it takes.”



and:





“DS: We'll have to get you involved. I like you, we have a lot to talk about, about real estate, you know, I have so many great activities going on at AIPAC, you ought to think about coming to some of these things. I'll have a dinner this fall. I'll have 18-20 senators there. I run programs in Washington. We just had a, I had at Ted Kennedy's house last month kosher dinner. I brought foremost caterers down. I had 60 people on the couch for dinner. Last year, I did it in Al Gore's house.”



and (obligatory Polish connection!):





“HK: Let me ask you, [talks about getting cheated in business by Gentiles]. Let me ask you, Clinton, if he becomes, I mean what will he do for Israel, better than Bush, if he becomes, I know Bush gave you a hard time, this and that. ..



DS: I'II tell you, I have friends on the Clinton campaign, close associates. Gore is very committed to us.



HK: Right. Clinton if he, have you spoken to him?

DS: I've known Bill for seven, eight years from the National Governors Association. I know him on a personal basis. I have friends. One of my friends is Hillary Clinton's scheduler, one of my officer's daughters works there. We gave two employees from AIPAC leave of absences to work on the campaign. I mean, we have a dozen people in that campaign, in the headquarters.



HK: You mean in Little Rock?



DS: In Little Rock, and they're all going to get big jobs. We have friends. I also work with a think tank, the Washington Institute. I have Michael Mandelbaum and Martin Indyk being foreign policy advisers. Steve Speigel – we've got friends – this is my business.



HK: I understand, David.



DS: It's very complicated and the more you get into it, you'll love it. You sound like a smart guy.



HK: I'm a smart guy, but I have a, maybe because I'm more orthodox than you are, I've had bad experiences with Gentiles. Let me ask you, you know what ‘tachlis’ means?



DS: Yeah, sure.



HK: From a practical point of view, if Clinton wins the presidency, and I'm sure he will, I hope so at least, what will be the benefits to Israel better than Bush? From a very practical point . . . I mean, you just told me that Bush gave you everything you wanted. . .



DS: Only, not everything, at the end, when we didn't want the F-15s, that's a terrible thing.



HK: Selling the F-15s? If Clinton is elected. . .



DS: Let me tell you the problem with the $10 billion in loan guarantees, right? We only have the first year. We have authorization from Congress, but it's at the discretion of the president every year thereafter, so if Bush is there, he could say, you know, use it as a club, you know. 'If you don't give up Syria, I won't give you the money. If you don't give up the Golan Heights.' It's at the discretion of the president. And that's why we need a friendly president and we have Bill Clinton's ear. I talked to Bill Clinton.



HK: And Bill Clinton has made a commitment that if he's elected . . . ?



DS: He's going to be very good for us.



HK: And he'll go ahead with the loan guarantees?



DS: We didn't talk about that specifically, listen, I didn't ask him that, but I have full confidence that we're going to have a much better situation. He's got Jewish friends. A girl who worked for me at AIPAC stood up for them at their wedding. Hillary lived with her. I mean we have those relationships. We have never had that with Bush. Susan Thomases, who's in there, worked with me on the Bradley campaign. We worked together for 13 years. She's In there with the family. They stay with her when they come to New York. One of my officers, Monte Friedkin, is one of the biggest fund-raisers for them. I mean, I have people like that all over the country.



HK: So, I mean from a practical point of view. . .



DS: He's going to be with us.



HK: I don't say, this business, you say, Bush only went ahead with the loan guarantees for one year.



DS: We only have. It's mandatory they give us the $2 billion for one year. After that it's subject to the discretion of the president.



HK: You mean the other $8 billion?



DS: That's correct. On an annualized basis.



HK: Also, I heard that. . .



DS: They don't have to give it to us.



HK: But if Clinton is elected. . .



DS:... feel reasonably certain we're gonna get It.



HK: He's made that commitment?



DS: Well, he said he's going to help us. He's got something in his heart for the Jews, he has Jewish friends. Bush has no Jewish friends.



HK: Right.



DS: Reagan had something . . . meshuga, but at least he had a commitment. He knew Jews from the film industry, he was one of the best guys for us. He had an emotional thing for the Jews. Bush doesn't have it. That's what it is really, if you have a feeling for our people, for what we believe in. Bush is, there's a man with no principles. Absolutely no principles.



HK: I heard something about, but I never really understood it, with the scoring. One of my friends told me there's a difference in the scoring, but I don't understand. . .



DS: Scoring is like points that you pay.



HK: So let's say, if Bush is elected on the loans . . .



DS: No, we've got the scoring arranged, it's four and a half percent. It's all done.



HK: That's all done, even with Bush?



DS: Even with Bush. I've got that worked out.



HK: So that's all done.



DS: It's in the bill. It's all passed. He signed the bill. It's a matter of law.



HK: So it's already four and a half percent?



DS: We could've had it less, but then we couldn't. . .



HK: And Clinton, if he was president, he would give...?



DS: He could not change it, you cannot change it.



HK: No, but I'm saying, if he was president now, before the bill was signed, he would've given you the four and a half percent. . .



DS: I would've gotten less.



HK: I'm sorry?



DS: I would've gotten it cheaper.



HK: How much? Even two percent?



DS: Yeah, we thought we were going to get two percent. But Rabin gave it away.



HK: You mean Rabin didn't bargain as good as he could have?



DS: That's right.



HK: Unbelievable. So, if Clinton is elected, that will be the best. ..






http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2007/11/pre-history-of-jewish-control-in.html

[David Lyle Segal]

Pre-history of Jewish control in Washington
What really happened links to this utterly amazing transcript of an Oct. 22, 1992 conversation with President David Steiner (DS) of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee recorded without his knowledge by New York businessman Haim (Harry) Katz (HK). Steiner had to resign when it was released. Remember that this was ten years before the Jews officially took control of Washington (my emphasis in red and green): ...

"Jews officially took control"? All I see, JH, is one lobbyist blowing his horn to another. The only way you (or the blogsponsor from whom you lifted this conversation) could come to this conclusion is to start out with the assumption that Jewish Americans can't be trusted with the same rights to petition their government as other Americans. The conversation that has you so exercised could have been taken from any other sphere of lobbying. Special Interest Groups are just that -- concerned with their special interests. AIPAC's special interest is the support of Israel.

David Segal

[Jesse Hemingway]

Let's cut the bull shit when will Israel stand on it’s own? Without the endless foreign aid it receives from the United States if Israel wants to live there in the middle east either kill all your neighbors or live by your ten commandments I could give a shit either way. Just stand own your own shut the fuck up Israel is the biggest bunch of helpless leeches.

Just go away like any other normal country, you are to of a high maintenance stand on your own before you ask for another penny.

[Nuclearian]

[QUOTE=stefan segal]

That's what you would like you freakin Zionist Nazi.

For the Palestinians to be quiet dutiful slaves to their Jewish masters.
Zionist Nazi? Like your islamifascists should talk. You ahabs were happy when the Jews living in "Palestine" were quiet and willing to deal with your occasional raids and rapes, but when they RIGHTFULLY founded their nation on their own land, you all went crazy with your violences.

[Nuclearian]

[QUOTE=stefan segal]================================================== ========



We have Nitt-Whitt #1 Stefan Segal agreeing with Nitt-Whitt #2 Nucleanian

Now that''s a pair made in Wacky Land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lmao2:
And nit wits agreeing with YOUR Nazi ass. Lots of nitwits on this post, and they are Nazi loving fascists.

[Nuclearian]

It wasn't that long ago in America when a woman would be abused for having the same thing done. We seem to forget our own past. Sure, maybe we've evolved 100 years more quickly but does that give us the right to judge?

We still have children hanging nooses in trees. Really, how enlightened are we?
And black kids beating up a white boy, who had nothing to do with the whole noose thing, because of it. How enlightened are the "non racist" blacks in this country.

[Nuclearian]

I must have hit a sore point when I pointed out that the Jewish Talmud is as full of hate towards other religions as the Koran. I understand that both religions have a common origin, so I can see why there is so much hate taught to both groups.

Yes, I understand that you would prefer if everyone would just mind their own business and let the sickening Israeli criminals get on with their thieving, their murdering, and the genocide of Palestinians that the Israelis take so much pleasure in. But as the world discovers more and more of these atrocities committed by the Israelis against their neighbors, you will be put under a lot more pressure to end your vulgar ways.

There are already campaigns worldwide to boycott Israeli goods, because as one country put it "Israel has consciously destroyed the Palestinian authority's infrastructure and undermined the autonomy on the West Bank". Many European countries have called for a UN peacekeeping force in the Middle East and urged the 15-member European Union to withdraw from a trade treaty with Israel.

We will have to see what happens in Annapolis as more Israeli atrocities will come to light. Syria will make the Golan Heights an issue for peace, so the thieving Israelis will be put under pressure to return what they have stolen yet again.

No, my friend, we will no longer turn a blind eye to Israeli hatred, thievery and murder. You will be exposed for the lying thieving rabble you have proven to be.
Sorry, but the murderous thievesw are the mussies that go into Israeli homes and pump bullets into the brains of jewish infants in order to wipe out future generations of jewish people. isn't that what the Nazi's used as an excuse to slaughter jews in Europe.
Israel in in THEIR land, and they will not leave. There NEVER was a Palestine, so the ahabs have NO claim to the land whatsoever. SO...
The israeli's are allowing the ahabs to live in JEWISH owned lands. they just have to act like CIVILIZED human beings. They do not want to, so whatever the jewish nation does to subdue their violent tendencies is right for me. personally, i think the jews should do tit for tat. Go into arab areas and butcher ahab children. They want to wipe out the LEGITIMATE RACE? then wipe out the Palestinian race, which is NOT even a race of people. The pals are so violent and uncivilized that even their own ahab "friends" will not let them into their countries.

[Nuclearian]

Let's cut the bull shit when will Israel stand on it’s own? Without the endless foreign aid it receives from the United States if Israel wants to live there in the middle east either kill all your neighbors or live by your ten commandments I could give a shit either way. Just stand own your own shut the fuck up Israel is the biggest bunch of helpless leeches.

Just go away like any other normal country, you are to of a high maintenance stand on your own before you ask for another penny.
Pals are the leachers. We give them millions to help their "people", and they bankroll themselves, or buy weapons with it to steal Jewish lands away from the Jewish people. I say the jews use our aid, buy heavier weapons, and obliterate a whole Pal town when the ahabs start murdering.

[UserName]

I say the jews use our aid, buy heavier weapons, and obliterate a whole Pal town when the ahabs start murdering.


I have a better idea. Let's cut off the welfare check and boycott the repressive Zionist regime like we did to apartheid South Africa. Then make the Israeli thieves give back all the land they stole, with interest.
Then we can start to round up the Israeli war criminals (Prime Ministers) and ship them off to the Hague for trial and judicial execution. We don't need to take the fat one, Ariel Sharon, because he is rotting away just as it should be.

Once the Israeli welfare bums stop the thieving and the murdering and the genocide of the Palestinians, we can all enjoy more peaceful times.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

DEMS LIE

IDIOTS BELIEVE THEM

See the TRUTH:

www.anncoulter.com

OMG, you think that witch is the pillar of truth? LOL, son, she gets busted out in her lies all the time on national television. Just do a search on youtube and click on any interview.

:lmao2:


http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Ann-Coulter/anti-ann-coulter.jpg

[disrupter]

American Jews are smarter than you.

They collectively opined that invading Iraq was a mistake before George Bush did it.

[Nuclearian]

I have a better idea. Let's cut off the welfare check and boycott the repressive Zionist regime like we did to apartheid South Africa. Then make the Israeli thieves give back all the land they stole, with interest.
Then we can start to round up the Israeli war criminals (Prime Ministers) and ship them off to the Hague for trial and judicial execution. We don't need to take the fat one, Ariel Sharon, because he is rotting away just as it should be.

Once the Israeli welfare bums stop the thieving and the murdering and the genocide of the Palestinians, we can all enjoy more peaceful times.
I will go one better. Lets cut off the Nazi ahabs welfare check, let the other ahab nazi states support them (they won't because even those nazi's hate these nazi's), and let them exterminate themselves. They hate everything living, so maybe they will exterminate themselves and give the world a chance for peace. THEN, kick them out of the lands they are presently occupying since it isn't theirs, and they refuse to act like civilized human beings. Israeli patience should quit, and just kick them out of jewish lands they are presently occupying.
THEN lets prosecute their leaders for war crimes, since they are doing to the jews what Nazis did to the jews. We executed Hitler; same for the present day Nazi ahabs.
Once the ahabs are polished off, the world will have peace.

[Nuclearian]

OMG, you think that witch is the pillar of truth? LOL, son, she gets busted out in her lies all the time on national television. Just do a search on youtube and click on any interview.

:lmao2:


http://uglyrepublicans.com/republicans/United-States/Ann-Coulter/anti-ann-coulter.jpg
She is totally accurate. Busted out of her lies on National TV? tell me you are not brainwashed by the Liberal controlled establishment press also? They will not debate her face to face because she exposes them for the Liberal pansy fools and liars that they are.
Nice phot too. McVeigh should have done it to the NYT building. They are the worst offenders of Liberal lies.
You might want to read her books and see what she writes about those "wonderful" Liberal imperialists that you adore so much. But I guess YOU will be closed off to the truth, just like other brainwashed Liberals.

[disrupter]

Ann Coulter parties with the faggots of West Hollywood.

She may be an idiot on everything else, but she knows where to spend all that money she makes pedaling intellectual trash to fools, with the people who really know how to party.

Of course she is probably a dyke anyway, so perhaps i am giving her too much credit.

[Nuclearian]

Ann Coulter parties with the faggots of West Hollywood.

She may be an idiot on everything else, but she knows where to spend all that money she makes pedaling intellectual trash to fools, with the people who really know how to party.

Of course she is probably a dyke anyway, so perhaps i am giving her too much credit.
She parties with the faggots? ROFLMAO. You obviously haven't read her books. She mocks them, and mocks the Pro Fag dumbo party. As far as idiot? Your post here just proves YOU are the idiot. If you had half the brain function of her, you would be a genius.
Probably a dyke? Oh one of those self humiliating types. Okay, so you know nothing of her.

[disrupter]

Busted! another GOP fraud is outed,

BTW for the uninformed West Hollywood is known as 'Boys Town' because it is so notoriously gay.
We had dinner last night at Murano, a new West Hollywood restaurant, owned by gay circuit party promoter Jeffrey Sanker, and lesbian night club owners Robin Gans and Sandy Sachs. It's a visually stunning space, straight lines, whites and reds accented by brilliant Murano glass chandeliers (hence the name of the restaurant). It's right at home within eyeshot of West Hollywood's Pacific Design Center, clearly appealing in a neighborhood of gay clubs, bars and restaurants.

Toward the end of dinner, one of my companions insisted that the painfully thin, emotive, long blond haired thing in a small black dress with nearly exposed bosoms was none other than Ann Coulter. I did not believe him. Why would Ann Coulter, who hates homosexuals, go to dinner at gay ground zero? Why would she spend her hard earned gay-bashing royalties to enrich Jeffrey Sanker and otherwise support gay-owned businesses?

But sure enough, he was right. I could not tell if she was dining with people she hates or just demonstrating that she's a fraud who says whatever she must to sell books so that she can live the gay urban lifestyle. Based on her behavior last night, I am sure it is the latter, although based on her table mates, it could be both.
. . . .
Clearly, Ann Coulter was caught in a lie. There she was, burbling like a fountain about her interview on Donny Deutsch's show in which she says Jews should be Christians, completely at ease in the heart of the gayest city on the planet. She was a natural with the gay men who surrounded her. She enjoyed the fawning attention by her two not so masculine male escorts, clearly in her milieu.

I was therefore shocked that when we tried to engage her in conversation, she became embarrassed, turned away, nestling her head inside her long, blond hair, much as would an embarrassed school girl caught stealing the answers to an exam.

We wondered if she was comfortable in West Hollywood, in a restaurant where a large number of the patrons are gay, and where the gay owners make money off of her dining bill. Her response (physically, because she would not speak): "I am too embarrassed to talk to you." Had we been able to see her high cheek bones, then averted and clutched in her hands to hide her shame, we'd have seen a red-faced hypocrite, caught living a lie. Think Britney Spears or Paris Hilton or others who make money simply for being famous and then have no clue how to respond when they are caught lying.

Ann Coulter loves the camera, so we snapped a few with a cell phone. Her sturdy female minder [(hmmm, brings interesting thoughts to mind)] said we were "molesting" her. Ann Coulter molested by having her picture taken? I guess she's molested every day, then. She might want to check into rehab to deal with her addiction to such molestation.

When the manager came by with our check, he said, "Look, I'm sorry she's here, but I have to serve her." The staff were clearly appalled when they realized who was in their midst. Did Hitler eat kosher food even as he worked out the final solution?http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/ann-coulter-on-the-gay-_b_70156.html

[Independent Harry]

She is totally accurate. Busted out of her lies on National TV? tell me you are not brainwashed by the Liberal controlled establishment press also? They will not debate her face to face because she exposes them for the Liberal pansy fools and liars that they are.
Nice phot too. McVeigh should have done it to the NYT building. They are the worst offenders of Liberal lies.
You might want to read her books and see what she writes about those "wonderful" Liberal imperialists that you adore so much. But I guess YOU will be closed off to the truth, just like other brainwashed Liberals.

Or maybe they're afraid she'll get them banned by the FCC for her mouth that is worse than a truck stop men's room...

[Independent Harry]

She parties with the faggots? ROFLMAO. You obviously haven't read her books. She mocks them, and mocks the Pro Fag dumbo party. As far as idiot? Your post here just proves YOU are the idiot. If you had half the brain function of her, you would be a genius.
Probably a dyke? Oh one of those self humiliating types. Okay, so you know nothing of her.

hrmm, haven't seen you around since the picture of Anne Coulter in the gay restaraunt in west hollywood...

[LadyMod at scam.com]

She is totally accurate. Busted out of her lies on National TV? tell me you are not brainwashed by the Liberal controlled establishment press also? They will not debate her face to face because she exposes them for the Liberal pansy fools and liars that they are.
Nice phot too. McVeigh should have done it to the NYT building. They are the worst offenders of Liberal lies.
You might want to read her books and see what she writes about those "wonderful" Liberal imperialists that you adore so much. But I guess YOU will be closed off to the truth, just like other brainwashed Liberals.

I watched the interviews, not the garbage. The woman stutters and falls flat on her face whenever she has to explain herself or gets caught contradicting herself.

And unless I got the book free, I wouldn't read it. She's an insult to humanity, the female gender, the Republican party and the Jews whom she just wants to perfect.

:rolleyes:

[David Lyle Segal]

JH>Let's cut the bull shit when will Israel stand on it’s own? Without the endless foreign aid it receives from the United States if Israel wants to live there in the middle east either kill all your neighbors or live by your ten commandments I could give a shit either way. Just stand own your own shut the fuck up Israel is the biggest bunch of helpless leeches.

Just go away like any other normal country, you are to of a high maintenance stand on your own before you ask for another penny.

Just can't keep up with a conversation that you even started, eh? Where did "Jews pfficially take control" of the US, JH?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

A story is told of a Jewish man who was riding on the subway reading a Middle East Arabic newspaper. A friend of his,
who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached the newspaper reader: "Moshe, have you lost your mind?
Why are you reading an Arabic newspaper?" Moshe replied: "I used to read the Jewish newspaper, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted worldwide , Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Arabic newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world. The news is so much better!".

[disrupter]

oh, how slanted our perspectives are, lol.

that is pretty funny, Islam Rocks.

I hope i don't do that about Republicans too much.
I genuinely think they work for evil, whether or not the actually intend it.

I know the answers aren't simple which is why i know the Republicans are wrong.
I think others can do much better.
It would be difficult, if not impossible to do much worse.

[David Lyle Segal]

A story is told of a Jewish man who was riding on the subway reading a Middle East Arabic newspaper. A friend of his,
who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached the newspaper reader: "Moshe, have you lost your mind?
Why are you reading an Arabic newspaper?" Moshe replied: "I used to read the Jewish newspaper, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted worldwide , Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty. So I switched to the Arabic newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world. The news is so much better!".

Now that's humor, IR (although it's also just an update from the old joke from the Nazi era Der Sturmer). Also, the reader in the original version wasn't 'in the subway', but standing in a park in 1930's Berlin (where he wasn't permitted to sit on public benches because he was Jewish). The saddest part, however, is how closely your first supposed 'joke' only painted the Jew-as-all-powerful part and left out any inkling that the image was absurd.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

UN (#55): You were given a wonderful opportunity to have a country of you own, but your continued theft of land outside the green zone, your destruction of Palestinian villages outside the green zone, and your wanton murder of Palestinian men, women and children is simply despicable. This is not "western interpretation" my friend.... it is verifiable fact!

I'm all ears, UN. Tell me about this "green zone" of yours. I've never heard of it. If it's a verifiable fact', then surely you can tell me where it is and how land in it came to be stolen by Israel.

UN: What country throws innocent people in prison.... forever? What country bulldozes entire villages in their neighbors territories and puts up settlements of their own? What country puts up apartheid walls with the sole purpose of angering their neighbors? What religious group considers all people who do not belong to their faith as nothing more than "animals"?

Urmmm, how did you come to the conclusion that the prisoners were innocent? How do you come to the conclusion that the Jewish communities you are referring to are 'in their neighbors' territories'? Where did you get the idea that the 'apartheid walls' were built 'with the sole purpose of angering their neighbors'? What religious group are you referring to (and why) as "consider all people who do not belong to their faith as nothing more than 'animals'"? These are allegations of fact that you've put forth (as opposed to your normal rhetorical Israel-bashing), so I'd like to see you stand up and defend them with supporting evidence.

UN: These Palestinians do despicable things not because they are determined, but because they are desperate.

Those who do the 'despicable things' don't agree, UN. Have you ever heard Hamas talk about 'desperation' lying behind the blowing up of cafes and buses in Jerusalem? I haven't. On the contrary, they attribute these 'successes' to the inevitable triumph of jihad.

[I]Radio Al-Aqsa, Hamas' radio station, continued broadcasting crude hate-mongering songs inciting terrorism and violence against Israel, and songs praising and encouraging members of the Izzadine al-Qassam Battalions, the terrorist-operative wing of the organization. On August 18, with the sounds of explosions in the background, an announcer stated: "We will be victorious over Sharon, and you will realize that tomorrow with the help of Allah. The Izzadine al-Qassam Battalions will make you tremble in Haifa, in Tel Aviv. They will strike you in Safed, in Acre.

"Wait for us in Jaffa, Haifa, Tel Aviv, Ashkelon. The knights of Gaza are coming. Our beloved sons of Palestine, we make no distinction between [Israeli-controlled] Palestine and [the West Bank and Gaza Strip] Palestine. There is no difference between Jaffa and Gaza, between the Galilee and Hebron. Hamas will leave Gaza and break out throughout Palestine to show the way of jihad, which will bring our nation to its summit. Oh sons of Zion, the defeat you suffered in Gaza is just the beginning…"
David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

And for all your Christian friends.....

"The Jewish Talmud teaches Jews that Jesus is an "idol" and that Christians are "idol worshipers". The Jewish Talmud instructs Jews to behead idol worshipers. Racist Jews intend to impose the Noahide Laws in the End Times and exterminate all Christians, pursuant to the Jewish Talmud in the book of Sanhedrin folios 56a-60b (note that the Talmud was written by "the scribes and Pharisees" whom Jesus condemned in the New Testament: Matthew 22; 23. Mark 7; 12:38-40. Luke 11. John 8)

Seems both the Islamic and Judaic religions want to eliminate the Christians.


"Jews believe that Jesus was the son of a prostitute and a Roman soldier, who learned witchcraft in Egypt, and who beguiled Jews to worship him as an idol. While this myth is more fully enunciated in the Toledoth Jeshua, the Talmud also iterates similar beliefs in Shabbath 104b"

The more I research Judaism, the more creepy it becomes. We all know how much you hate Muslims, but why do you folks hate Christians so much?

I'm sure that everyone here joins with me in appreciation of the insights you have gleaned from your deep study of the Talmud, UN. Unlike Torah, which is taken as the word of G-d, the Talmud isn't a book for worship at all, but the minutes of debates among rabbis living in exile in Iraq during the 1st - 3rd Centuries CE. But you already knew that, don't you? Just like you know that Jews today don't cite these passages in the Talmud as support for perpetuating hatred of non-Jews. Hamas, on the other hand, includes the quote "Oh Muslim [cry the rocks and the trees]. There is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him" in its Charter. http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm

David Segal

[disrupter]

Is it ok to be a little ethnically biased?
I think generally jews may be more socially adroit.
Jews who work for good are among the best people on the planet.
Those who k'nive & manipulate for ulterior motives are among the worst.

It is kind of a bit self demeaning to admit the superior attributes of other cultural groups. I guess i see myself as a centrist [no, not joking]. a bit of a drag on progress, but hopefully a bigger drag on retrograde retrenchment.
A positive, progressive [enlightening?] center to help counter all the negative centers, which probably outnumber/outweigh me at this point.

I am the fairy from & for the future!
lol, teasing mostly.

The quadruple F'er.
You can just call me an F'er.
What you can't call me is a mother F'er.

[UserName]

I'm all ears, UN. Tell me about this "green zone" of yours. I've never heard of it. If it's a verifiable fact', then surely you can tell me where it is and how land in it came to be stolen by Israel.
I realize David, that you really don't want this conflict to end, so you play the part of an idiot. But you really don't need to "play" the part at all.
Some simple research that a second grader could easily perform would produce these results....

"The Green Zone is an area described as inside the Green Line. The term Green Line is used to refer to the 1949 Armistice lines established between Israel and its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The Green Line separates Israel not only from these countries but from territories Israel would later capture in the 1967 Six-Day War, including the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula (the latter has since been returned to Egypt). Its name is derived from the green pencil used to draw the line on the map during the talks".

I imagine there are many things "you've never heard of".

Urmmm, how did you come to the conclusion that the prisoners were innocent?
They had no trial. In the US, people are considered innocent until proven guilty. Now I realize that Israel is nowhere near as civilized as the US, but one would hope that some day the regressive Zionist regime would enact this one simple law.

How do you come to the conclusion that the Jewish communities you are referring to are 'in their neighbors' territories'?
Perhaps a Jewish newspaper article would bring you out of your "ignorance" stupor...
Legitimization of land theft
By Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/830963.html

all people who do not belong to their faith as nothing more than 'animals'"? These are allegations of fact that you've put forth

You agree then, that the Talmud is a racist book (or collection of books as is the case).

Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud
Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God - Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews - Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human - Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.


These simple facts are easy to find David. The Talmud is racist.

so I'd like to see you stand up and defend them with supporting evidence.
Now you stand up and either defend the talmud, or admit it is racist.



Those who do the 'despicable things' don't agree, UN. Have you ever heard Hamas talk about 'desperation' lying behind the blowing up of cafes and buses in Jerusalem? I haven't. On the contrary, they attribute these 'successes' to the inevitable triumph of jihad.

I don't agree with their jihad any more than I agree with Israeli theft and murder. You two are definitely cut from the same cloth. I would have expected the Israelis to act a little more civilized, but as I have clearly demonstrated, Israel is nothing more than a land for despicable murdering, thieving despots. You must be very proud.

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> I'm all ears, UN. Tell me about this "green zone" of yours. I've never heard of it. If it's a verifiable fact', then surely you can tell me where it is and how land in it came to be stolen by Israel.

UN> "The Green Zone is an area described as inside the Green Line. The term Green Line is used to refer to the 1949 Armistice lines established between Israel and its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria) after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The Green Line separates Israel not only from these countries but from territories Israel would later capture in the 1967 Six-Day War, including the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and Sinai Peninsula (the latter has since been returned to Egypt). Its name is derived from the green pencil used to draw the line on the map during the talks".

I imagine there are many things "you've never heard of".

Like the "Green Zone", since the term is apparently one you've made up, just as you've made up its legal significance. FYI, the Green Line demarcates only the armistice line between Israel and Transjordan, not the borders with Lebanon, Syria or Egypt (not even the Gaza Strip). More important to this discussion, it is explicitly not a political border. On the contrary, the agreement is careful to make sure that no one -- not even you -- can mistake the Green Line's limited role:

Article II, ¶2: "...no provision of this Agreement shall in any way prejudice the rights, claims and positions of either Party hereto in the ultimate peaceful settlement of the Palestine question, the provisions of this Agreement being dictated exclusively by military considerations.

and again at Article IV, ¶1: "The lines described in articles V and VI of this Agreement shall be designated as the Armistice Demarcation Lines and are delineated in pursuance of the purpose and intent of the security Council resolution of 16 November 1948.)

"2. The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Lines is to delineate the lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move. "

The UNSC Resolution (#62) provides:

"1. Decides that, in order to eliminate the threat to the peace in Palestine and to facilitate the transition from the present truce to permanent peace in Palestine, an armistice shall be established in all sectors of Palestine;

2. Calls upon the parties directly involved in the conflict in Palestine, as a further provisional measure under Article 40 of the Charter, to seek agreement forthwith, by negotiations conducted either directly or through the Acting Mediator, with a view to the immediate establishment of the armistice, including:

(a) The delineation of permanent armistice demarcation lines beyond which the armed forces of the respective parties shall not move;

(b) Such withdrawal and reduction of their armed forces will ensure the maintenance of the armistice during the transition to permanent peace in Palestine."
Note the absence of any talk about political borders, UN. The armistice lines under UNSC62 and under the armistice agreement itself are clear: they are ceasefire lines only. In fact, the armistice agreement wants to make sure that you don't read too fast and miss the point.

Article VI, ¶8: "The provisions of this article shall not be interpreted as prejudicing, in any sense, an ultimate political settlement between the Parties to this Agreement.

9. The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto.

And at Article XI, ¶8, they made sure that the UN had no further role or authority in drawing the borders:

"Where interpretation of the meaning of a particular provision of this Agreement, other than the preamble and articles I and II, is at issue, the Commission's interpretation shall prevail. The Commission, in its discretion and as the need arises, may from time to time recommend to the Parties modifications in the provisions of this Agreement."

So you were telling me all about this "Green Zone", UN. Just how did it escape the limitations that were so carefuly worded to make sure it was strictly a ceasefire line and come to denote what land belonged to Israel and what land belonged to someone else? The UN didn't say so. Israel and Transjordan in their sole agreement on the subject were careful not to say so, just as they were careful not to let the UN have any authority to later arrogate the authority to draw the line (oh, and by the way, the agreement was brokered by the UN, thereby constituting acknowledgment of its lack of authority in border drawing).

Imagine that, UN. You're absolutely, 100%, wrong on your basic premise. The Green Line doesn't determine ownership (and it sure doesn't describe your mythical "Green Zone"). Boy, I love it when you lead with your chin.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> Urmmm, how did you come to the conclusion that the prisoners were innocent?

UN> They had no trial. In the US, people are considered innocent until proven guilty. Now I realize that Israel is nowhere near as civilized as the US, but one would hope that some day the regressive Zionist regime would enact this one simple law.

Don't be an ass on purpose, UN. The Palestinian people aren't subject to the criminal law of Israel but to Israel's military law. They made war against Israel and they lost. They're an occupied people, remember? And they'll stay that way until they make peace with Israel. I hate to break it to you, but there ain't no Sixth Amendment right to a speedy trial; there's just the Fourth Geneva Convention (which, although not required of her, Israel has voluntarily abided by in regard to the Palestinians within her control), which provides, in part:

Article 64: "... The Occupying Power may ... subject the population of the occupied territory to provisions which are essential to enable the Occupying Power ... to maintain the orderly government of the territory, and to ensure the security of the Occupying Power, of the members and property of the occupying forces or administration ...

Article 68: ... Protected persons who commit an offence which is solely intended to harm the Occupying Power, but which does not constitute an attempt on the life or limb of members of the occupying forces or administration, nor a grave collective danger, nor seriously damage the property of the occupying forces or administration or the installations used by them, shall be liable to internment or simple imprisonment, provided the duration of such internment or imprisonment is proportionate to the offence committed.

So far, UN, you haven't shown that the detainees to whom you accord the presumption of innocence (but GCIV does not) have been denied the right to a trial under the GCIV provisions. I'll await your evidence before continuing with this explication.




DLS> How do you come to the conclusion that the Jewish communities you are referring to are 'in their neighbors' territories'?

UN> Perhaps a Jewish newspaper article would bring you out of your "ignorance" stupor...
Legitimization of land theft
By Haaretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/830963.html

I actually didn't expect your lips to get too tired before you read the article to its end, but, had you done so, you would have noticed the editorial's closing paragraph:

The High Court did not hesitate to halt the construction in Matityahu East until the planning procedures and inquiry into the ownership issue could be completed. If the government does not quash the planning council's decision to allow construction to continue, the High Court will have no choice but to respond to the recent petition. It will have to abrogate that decision, to protect both the rule of law and the rights of those victimized by its breach.

Sounds to me like due process of law is very much in evidence here, UN. Folks take their shot, others file petitions in court, and the courts hear evidence and make decisions. So far, the jury in this case is still out. The matter is in the courts, which will decide who is right and who is wrong. Until then, the article on which you place such emphasis is just another opinion. In your zeal, you've just jumped the gun, that's all. Next time, read with closer attention to critical detail.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> all people who do not belong to their faith as nothing more than 'animals'"? These are allegations of fact that you've put forth

UN> You agree then, that the Talmud is a racist book (or collection of books as is the case). Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud
Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God - Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews - Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human - Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

These simple facts are easy to find David. The Talmud is racist.

All I can agree on, UN, is that sure as G-d made little green apples, some 21st Century asshole will try to pluck isolated debates noted in the Talmud out of their 3rd Century time, place, and context in an attempt to prove that 21st Century Jews are somehow bound by the opinions.

You couldn't be more wrong if you think that the Talmud is a compendium of rules telling Jews how to live their lives. If you are going to presume to quote from the Talmud, then you need to study it like the Jews do. After all, it was written for them, not you.

For Jews, as my Catholic friend, Bob Schulte once opined, the important thing is the question; it's only Christians who think that the important thing is the answer. The Talmud lists arguments both for and against; the debates are lengthy and intricate, sometimes brilliant, sometimes humorous, sometimes simply inane. No ultimate judgment is expressed, only the arguments of the two (or more) sides. What the Talmud teaches Jews (as opposed to those who think that they are receiving Revealed Truth) is that it's for the living to make their own decisions on the issues discussed, in the spirit of Kiddish Hashem. The only set of laws to live by is the obligation of each individual Jew to think, weigh and decide the issues that are still relevant.

For your information, my mother was a gentile when she married my father. My first wife and my current wife were both gentiles when I married them. According to your ignorant, Jew-hating interpretation, my father and I married people that we consider to be subhuman. Up yours.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

UserName debating with this fanatic Zionist is useless.

It's like trying to reason with Eichmann or Himmler about the realities of the Third Reich.

No wonder the Nazi's and the pre-Israel Zionist Jews didn't get along. They were soo much alike that they couldn't stand each other.

[David Lyle Segal]

UserName debating with this fanatic Zionist is useless.

Good for you, IR. Now that you've ducked out from a real debate on the actual facts in question, you need to stiffen UN's lip on the idiot rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

It's like trying to reason with Eichmann or Himmler about the realities of the Third Reich.

Don't be an asshole on purpose, IR. Do you really think that I am not aware of your Jew-baiting agenda? Whether or not you even think that you are in the least amount honest in real life, you have neither the honesty to judge your personal position in the light of your ignorant and unrepentent Jew-hating bloodthirstiness nor the intellectual honesty to put your poor, beat-up ass in the life of either a Palestinian or an Israeli. After all, no matter the outcome, it's not your ass on the line, is it? That's your loss, IR, not Israel's or the Palestinians'.

IR>? No wonder the Nazi's and the pre-Israel Zionist Jews didn't get along. They were soo much alike that they couldn't stand each other.

All you're doing, IR, is displaying your complete ignorance of history. You have no understanding of Nazi nor Zionist history of the 1930s; all you have is the BS offered on the websites of those hoping to ensnare the gullible to a distorted understanding of the history. Once you decide to hunker down and do the work of actually studying the histories, instead of your favorite website precis, you may -- and I emphasize the word may -- become ready for Prime Time. So far, all you have contributed are ignorant, uninformed judgments like "genocide". Where's the beef, UN? Is that a gun in your pocket or are you glad to see me (shame on you if you don't get the joke).

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Intermarriage in Judaism is informed by three basic principles, be they of biblical or rabbinical origin. First, the child of a Jewish female is considered to be Jewish, regardless of the status of the father, while the child of a male Jew and a female non-Jew is not considered Jewish. This emphasis on matrilineal descent as the determining factor of a person's Jewishness is of biblical origin. In Deuteronomy (7:4), it is written "He [the non-Jewish father of the child] will wean your son away from God." In this passage the expression "your son" refers to the child of a Jewish mother, and it was thus concluded that in all cases children were considered Jewish if they were the offspring of a Jewish woman. However, the Torah is not consistent on this issue, as patrilineal descent has also been justified by pointing to verses in Numbers, notably 1:2 and 18:1. Second, intermarriage is discouraged in the Torah because it was viewed as potentially erosive to the monotheistic character and overall perceived cultural uniqueness of the Jewish people. In Exodus 34:16 we find a passage in support of this view: "Lest you take wives from among their [heathen] daughters for your sons, their daughters will lust after their gods and cause your sons to lust after their gods." Finally, a Jewish marriage is, by definition, a contract between two Jews (see Ketubah). Intermarriage under Jewish law is therefore not only forbidden, but technically (legally) impossible.

[UserName]

UserName debating with this fanatic Zionist is useless.

It's like trying to reason with Eichmann or Himmler about the realities of the Third Reich.

No wonder the Nazi's and the pre-Israel Zionist Jews didn't get along. They were soo much alike that they couldn't stand each other.


I don't believe dialogue with anyone is useless. As long as they're talkin', they aren't killin' or stealin'. Both you folks should try it sometime......talkin' I mean.

You couldn't be more wrong if you think that the Talmud is a compendium of rules telling Jews how to live their lives. If you are going to presume to quote from the Talmud, then you need to study it like the Jews do. After all, it was written for them, not you.

I would not presume to ever study such a racist set of writings any more than I would presume to study Mein Kampf (which translated to English means "My Struggle"). What book would be better described as a "struggle" than the books of the Talmud? Israel is the fourth largest arms exporter in the world, my friend. Your "struggle", just like the struggle of Mein Kampf, is simply bullshit.


the important thing is the question; it's only Christians who think that the important thing is the answer. The Talmud lists arguments both for and against; the debates are lengthy and intricate, sometimes brilliant, sometimes humorous,
So you also are taught that "Christians" are not smart enough to understand the racist doctrine of the Talmud? "Intricate", "brilliant" and "humorous" are concepts that Christians just can't comprehend?
You really are meaningless scum if you believe that pile of feces.

But I see you wouldn't discredit the Talmud for it's racist doctrine, so I would be led to believe you affirm all the Talmud's narrow-minded dogma?


One more question, are these "gentiles" you and your father married still "gentiles"?

No reply is necessary, David. I'm sure we already know the answer.

[Americanadian]

Rush.......Rush Limbaugh.........is that you?.....aren't you supposed to be doing a radio show now???


LOL...look at his signature. A link to some Ann Coulter thing. That tells one everything they ever need to know about his mental capacity. :pokefun:

[Americanadian]

What the Palestinians are doing isn't a military "tactic", it's murder. They don't engage in the launching of rockets into civilian neighborhoods as a means to reacquire the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. They launch those rockets for one reason, and one reason only... to kill the Jews. Just tune in to their state run television and they make it quite clear that the killing Jews is the duty of not only of every Palestinian, but of every Muslim.

If the Palestinians were only interested in the land, they could have had that many years ago. The Israeli's have agreed to many cease fires to negotiate the return of the West Bank and Gaza Strip on several occasions over the years, only to watch as the Palestinians break every single one them. Their actions have made it clear that their desire to murder Jews, is much stronger than their desire for land, having their own state, or lasting peace.


Because the ones who broke the law initially are the ones brokering the terms.

Zionist terrorist groups drove several hundred thousand Arabs from their land. Israel flagrantly disregards UN Resolutions when convenient. How would some "agreement" merit any serious consideration with an entity which murdered and deceived to attain their land and whom continue to do so to this very day?

Terms dictated by Israel to Palestine is much like a thief dictating terms to a cop. Actually, in this case, a thief (Israel) is dictating to the cop (UN) and the owner of the house he broke into (Palestine).

[Americanadian]

username...muslims teach preteens to kill Jews...it is designed into their culture.



Only because of the absence of Justice in the Middle East. Nothing is done because without US support, the UN is essentially impotent. And we all know the relationship between America and Israel.

Therefore, since there won't be any outside intervention, the Arabs have decided they would rather die than to have immorality imposed upon them by foreigners. And that is their choice, do you not agree?

It would be much the same if your state was completely encapsulated by Communist forces. They slowly annexed more land as they saw fit and did as they desired. Like a cat toying with a mouse. Once you are cognizant of your situation and realize there will never be an intervening presence to thwart your enemies, you either capitulate or die fighting.
I'm sure you would love to embrace everything Communism has to offer, yes?

[Americanadian]

username...your maps are a great tutorial to diswade palestinians from attacking Isreal. As I mentioned earlier...its title for title when you attack a country and attempt to anihilate them all...drive the Jews into the sea.

This is not a prank the un can step in and make like no one died...kiss and make up.

palestininans need to stop functioning like angry teenagers. If they pretend to be a nation, then they must play by international rules. After learning not to sneak attack civilians of a Nation that could clean your slate, the need to learn to keep their treaties...give their word and keep it as if it actually had any meaning.


The Geneva Conventions prohibit any country from acquiring land by means of military aggression. Israel is no exception. If we are to believe that every act of aggression Israel undertook was an act of "defense" in response to Arab hostilities, would it not be reasonable to investigate the validity of their claims? Surely the Israelis wouldn't take advantage of a loophole in International Laws which do not specify the acquisition of land when one is "defending" themselves? I mean, all it would take is to bulldoze a house (which is illegal) or murder a few families and wait for the retaliation. Once it occurs, be sure to capture it on camera and hold a press conference. Voila! Justification to wage aggression in a "defensive" manner which negates the Geneva Conventions and permits Israel to acquire the land they desire.

Of course, noone would think of that now would they? It's much easier to blame all acts of aggression on the Arabs whilst abnegating the intial aggressors.

[Americanadian]

Sorry, but the murderous thievesw are the mussies that go into Israeli homes and pump bullets into the brains of jewish infants in order to wipe out future generations of jewish people. isn't that what the Nazi's used as an excuse to slaughter jews in Europe.
Israel in in THEIR land, and they will not leave. There NEVER was a Palestine, so the ahabs have NO claim to the land whatsoever. SO...
The israeli's are allowing the ahabs to live in JEWISH owned lands. they just have to act like CIVILIZED human beings. They do not want to, so whatever the jewish nation does to subdue their violent tendencies is right for me. personally, i think the jews should do tit for tat. Go into arab areas and butcher ahab children. They want to wipe out the LEGITIMATE RACE? then wipe out the Palestinian race, which is NOT even a race of people. The pals are so violent and uncivilized that even their own ahab "friends" will not let them into their countries.


You know what? The Torah specifically forbids any Jew from taking the Holy Land before the appointed time. If any real Jew decides to live in the Holy Land today, they risk facing death without any Divine intervention to save their lives. If any chooses to disobey their dogma, they obviously have no need of Divine protection.

[Americanadian]

We executed Hitler;

Man, you must have been smoking some good dope before history classes. LOL....

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> You couldn't be more wrong if you think that the Talmud is a compendium of rules telling Jews how to live their lives. If you are going to presume to quote from the Talmud, then you need to study it like the Jews do. After all, it was written for them, not you.

AC> I would not presume to ever study such a racist set of writings any more than I would presume to study Mein Kampf (which translated to English means "My Struggle"). What book would be better described as a "struggle" than the books of the Talmud? Israel is the fourth largest arms exporter in the world, my friend. Your "struggle", just like the struggle of Mein Kampf, is simply bullshit.

I'm still scratching my head trying to understand if you are trying to make a point or are just vomiting out of habit. Your ignorance is understandable, but your pride in your ignorance is mystifying.


DLS> the important thing is the question; it's only Christians who think that the important thing is the answer. The Talmud lists arguments both for and against; the debates are lengthy and intricate, sometimes brilliant, sometimes humorous,

AC> So you also are taught that "Christians" are not smart enough to understand the racist doctrine of the Talmud? "Intricate", "brilliant" and "humorous" are concepts that Christians just can't comprehend?
You really are meaningless scum if you believe that pile of feces.

I don't believe any such thing, AC. Nor do I believe that you even think that I do. The Talmud isn't Revealed Truth. No Jew would ever see it that way. It is only a compendium of arguments, both pro and con. Jews treat the arguments in accordance with their views of the particular rabbis being quoted and the usefulness of the argument to their present-day circumstances. If you choose to read it for what it doesn't say, that's not my problem.

AC> But I see you wouldn't discredit the Talmud for it's racist doctrine, so I would be led to believe you affirm all the Talmud's narrow-minded dogma?

Do you really think that this question is worthy of an answer? I don't. I think that it requires me to assume a set of facts that are not in evidence and then to choose between alternatives that you define. Up yours, AC. That may work on gentiles, but it won't work on a Jew <g>.

AC> One more question, are these "gentiles" you and your father married still "gentiles"? No reply is necessary, David. I'm sure we already know the answer.

Then why don't you reveal 'the answer'? You may be surprised by the truth, but then again you've never shown much interest in it.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Like I said AC to argue with a Zionist is just about pointless.

There is an old saying. "Ask 3 Jews about something, and you will get 5 opinions".

Now multiply that times a thousand when dealing with a Zionist.

They want not only to set the rules for framing a debate. The Zionists also will require that your answers must conform to what they want to hear.

They love to argue. Think about the Talmud. A book devoted to argument!

I mean how psychotic is that; elevating arguing to the status of religion.

No wonder the Palestinians can't work out a peace deal with these people!

[stefan segal]

The Geneva Conventions prohibit any country from acquiring land by means of military aggression. Israel is no exception. If we are to believe that every act of aggression Israel undertook was an act of "defense" in response to Arab hostilities, would it not be reasonable to investigate the validity of their claims? Surely the Israelis wouldn't take advantage of a loophole in International Laws which do not specify the acquisition of land when one is "defending" themselves? I mean, all it would take is to bulldoze a house (which is illegal) or murder a few families and wait for the retaliation. Once it occurs, be sure to capture it on camera and hold a press conference. Voila! Justification to wage aggression in a "defensive" manner which negates the Geneva Conventions and permits Israel to acquire the land they desire.

Of course, noone would think of that now would they? It's much easier to blame all acts of aggression on the Arabs whilst abnegating the intial aggressors.

Americanandian...Isrealis have enemies on all sides who use the palestinian insoluable conflict to continuously bring pressure on Isreal in the world stage.

The world listens with concern to such and oil consortium.

This is the crux of this conflict.

If you weigh it up with a clear eye, you will see that Isreal can do nothing in this scenerio that will both protect its citizens and their property and also please the UN (world). This is due to the fact whatever Isreal does short of dying altogether, won't please the arab oil nations, and if the oil nations are displeased, then the UN is also not pleased.

There is a reality beneath all the talking heads who shill for oil. It can be seen in the close connection of the US government and Isreal. The one these people whine about...stupid people who believe that our government has been and is charitable in giving money every year for fifty years to Isreal.

A clue for the clueless...our government is not diplomatically charitable...Isreal provides a Western spike in the sides of the middle eastern block.

Isreal, the size od New Jersey, holds off the whole of the middle east...they are in function, our first responders...and they are far from being a dependant nation, as they are front runners in technology.

To attempt to use this relationship to further anti Zionist aims is ignorant as well as stupid.

As far as Isreal taking whatever palestinian land they want, I believe you will find that any lands taken were subsummed as a result of strategic neccessity.

Isreal is being and have been sneak attacked almost daily by individual sappers or by multi-nation armies...security is difficult when there are no friendly borders.

Stefan

[UserName]

David, can you show me a map that defines Israel's borders?

[stefan segal]

DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A PEOPLE WHO WANT TO TALK PEACE? It doesn't sound like it to me. In fact it sounds exactly like what palestinians gave up in all their other "negotiated" peace deals. The Isrealis gave their part...and the palestinians gave NOTHING.

Read what they want...and you should get the palestinian idea of honest dealing...NOT!!

If you note in their pledge, they cite 1948 as their idea of what must be met. This is when the palestinians sneak attacked Isreal, lost, then ran away to be later kicked out by those arab nations who couldn't stand the trouble palestinian refugees were causing. This war they enjoined was title for title...they lost all, but the Isrealis didn't keep all.

Stefan


http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/default.aspx?xyz=U6Qq7k%2bcOd87MDI46m9rUxJEpMO%2bi 1s7n0ZOzj743tBLA5r43ExJclLMKhjgtaIdOfxJAB%2f349b7O 8M06dZ1YvzCYuV8ga4mN62gmrYYEi%2bsX5UkqZ30%2bntP2KZ AskycL9hQ%2b0%2fGOHI%3d


Hundreds of thousands demonstrate against Annapolis in Gaza Strip

[ 28/11/2007 - 11:18 AM ]

GAZA, (PIC)-- Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian citizens demonstrated in Gaza streets on Tuesday in condemnation of the Annapolis conference, affirming their adherence to the Palestinian legal rights and vowing not to compromise them at all costs.

The huge numbers of the Palestinian masses also declared allegiance to the "covenant and fulfillment" document that was signed by Hamas's legislators a couple of days ago.

"We pledge before the Almighty Allah and before our people that we will never accept any solution to the Palestinian issue unless all the occupied Palestinian lands are liberated, and the Palestinian refugees are returned to their homelands in the 1948-occupied lands as we will never concede or bargain any part of Jerusalem and its Muslim and Christian holy shrines, landmarks, and real estate", the masses asserted as they reiterated the document.

In its session a couple of days ago, the PLC enacted three laws, including a law affirming the right of return of millions of Palestinian refugees to their homelands, a law prohibiting compromising occupied Jerusalem or any of its holy shrines, and a law sanctioning the legitimate Palestinian resistance against the Israeli occupation.

For his part, senior Hamas political leader MP Dr. Mahmoud Al-Zahhar underscored that Palestinian constants are "neither changed nor replaced", asserting that the huge rally serves as clear message of popular referendum to all the participating parties in the conference that the Palestinian people aren’t ready to concede a bit of their legal rights and national constants.

"Palestine, all Palestine is for Muslim and Christian Palestinians as there is no president, state, nation, generation or even ten manifolds of the United Nations that could compromise an inch of Palestinian land", emphasized Zahhar as he addressed the masses.

Moreover, Zahhar underlined that the Palestinian people didn’t authorize any person or a party to sign any document harmful to the Palestinian national constants in their names.

"History will witness that we are a nation that would sacrifice everything precious for the sake of its land and holy shrines", the Hamas leader stressed.

Similar remarks were also uttered by the Islamic Jihad prominent political leader Mohammed Al-Hindi, affirming "anyone compromising Palestinian legal rights isn’t a Palestinian".

In the West Bank, Fatah armed militias along with the PA security apparatuses quelled peaceful rallies organized in a number of major Palestinian cities in condemnation of the "shameful" conference.

One Palestinian citizen was killed and tens others were wounded when those armed gangs shot at the demonstrators.

Fatah spokesman in the West Bank Fahmi Al-Zaareen attempted to justify the Fatah suppressing of the Palestinian people's right of expression by alleging that "the demonstrators are weakening the stand of the Palestinian negotiators".

[mwillman]

The only long lasting solution to this problem is the two state solution.
Everyone knows it and as soon as palestinians gain that state the healing can begin.

Everything else is just words that accomplish nothing.

[stefan segal]

Mwillman, that is the crux of what that Anapolous article was all about...the palestinians won't budge an inch from thier ridiculous demands.

Those around the table might agree to something or another, but nothing will change their bombings and rockets...paper is for wiping one's ass.

There is no population to make state contiguous with Isreal...read the article

Stefan

[Nuclearian]

Because the ones who broke the law initially are the ones brokering the terms.

Zionist terrorist groups drove several hundred thousand Arabs from their land. Israel flagrantly disregards UN Resolutions when convenient. How would some "agreement" merit any serious consideration with an entity which murdered and deceived to attain their land and whom continue to do so to this very day?

Terms dictated by Israel to Palestine is much like a thief dictating terms to a cop. Actually, in this case, a thief (Israel) is dictating to the cop (UN) and the owner of the house he broke into (Palestine).

These "zionist terrorist groups" have not driven several hundred thousand arabs from their land. The Jews just took THEIR LAND back.
UN resolutions? Who cares what the UN thinks? Would the US listen if the UN said we had to give back America to the Indians who have a bigger claim to this land? NO, so why would the Jews listen to an organization that hates Jews, and just wants to give it to people who have NO claim to the land?

[David Lyle Segal]

David, can you show me a map that defines Israel's borders?

Not entirely. In fact, I often have to remind members that they are wrong to think of the Green Line as if it were a border. It isn't and it never was.

Borders require agreement between the countries on both sides. The borders with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are agreed. The border with the Arab state to be formed by the Palestinians is not agreed. Palestinian Authority television shows in its logograms the entirety of British Mandatory Palestine as within the Arab state.

The border can only be determined by agreement according to the Israel/Transjordan armistice agreement, the United Nations resolutions, and the Declaration of Principles.

David Segal

[UserName]

Not entirely. In fact, I often have to remind members that they are wrong to think of the Green Line as if it were a border. It isn't and it never was.

Borders require agreement between the countries on both sides. The borders with Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan are agreed. The border with the Arab state to be formed by the Palestinians is not agreed. Palestinian Authority television shows in its logograms the entirety of British Mandatory Palestine as within the Arab state.

The border can only be determined by agreement according to the Israel/Transjordan armistice agreement, the United Nations resolutions, and the Declaration of Principles.

David Segal

So how can anyone make peace with a country that has no borders, a country that bulldozes villages, wherever they want, to build settlements of their own? Here is the true state of Israel's borders.

"The present state of Israel formally occupies all the land from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean ocean, bounded by Egypt in the south, Lebanon in the north, and Jordan in the East. The recognized borders of Israel constitute about 78% of the land. The remainder is divided between land occupied by Israel since the 1967 6-day war and the autonomous regions under the control of the Palestinian autonomy. The Gaza strip occupies an additional 141 square miles south of Israel along the sea coast, and is mostly under the control of the Palestinian authority with small areas occupied by Israeli settlements".

Lets consider that Israel has demanded that the Palestinians "recognize Israel" and its "right to exist." This is a common enough sentiment — even a cliche. Yet many observers have pointed out that this proposition, assiduously propagated by Israel's advocates and uncritically reiterated by American politicians and journalists, is — at best — utterly nonsensical.

So, territorially speaking, "Israel" is an open-ended concept. Are the Palestinians to recognize the Israel that ends at the lines proposed by the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan? Or the one that extends to the 1949 Armistice Line (the de facto border that resulted from the 1948 war)? Or does Israel include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it has occupied in violation of international law for 40 years — and which maps in its school textbooks show as part of "Israel"?

Which Israel should the Palestinians "recognize", David??? Or is that subject to change also?

[David Lyle Segal]

Here is the true state of Israel's borders.

"The present state of Israel formally occupies all the land from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean ocean, bounded by Egypt in the south, Lebanon in the north, and Jordan in the East. The recognized borders of Israel constitute about 78% of the land. The remainder is divided between land occupied by Israel since the 1967 6-day war and the autonomous regions under the control of the Palestinian autonomy. The Gaza strip occupies an additional 141 square miles south of Israel along the sea coast, and is mostly under the control of the Palestinian authority with small areas occupied by Israeli settlements".

Really? What is the source (and date) of this quote, UN? If it's http://www.mideastweb.org/misrael.htm, then it appears to have been written before the withdrawal from Gaza.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

So, territorially speaking, "Israel" is an open-ended concept. Are the Palestinians to recognize the Israel that ends at the lines proposed by the 1947 U.N. Partition Plan? Or the one that extends to the 1949 Armistice Line (the de facto border that resulted from the 1948 war)? Or does Israel include the West Bank and East Jerusalem, which it has occupied in violation of international law for 40 years — and which maps in its school textbooks show as part of "Israel"?

Which Israel should the Palestinians "recognize", David??? Or is that subject to change also?

UNSC242 only has two requirements, UN. If the Palestinians accept those, that's enough.

1. Recognize the right of Israel to live in recognized borders.
2. Acknowledge and respect Israel's right to live free from threat of violence.

I frankly don't care where the borders are; that's for Israel and the Palestinians to decide by agreement. IMV, the borders should be drawn according to the demographic mix: if there are a majority of Israelis here, this is Israel; if the majority is Palestinians, then it is Palestine. Where the resulting map produces unreasonable difficulties for the one or the other, the difference will be determined according to assuring contiguity. Do you have a problem with this formula?

David Segal

[Americanadian]

I'm still scratching my head trying to understand if you are trying to make a point or are just vomiting out of habit. Your ignorance is understandable, but your pride in your ignorance is mystifying.




I don't believe any such thing, AC. Nor do I believe that you even think that I do. The Talmud isn't Revealed Truth. No Jew would ever see it that way. It is only a compendium of arguments, both pro and con. Jews treat the arguments in accordance with their views of the particular rabbis being quoted and the usefulness of the argument to their present-day circumstances. If you choose to read it for what it doesn't say, that's not my problem.



Do you really think that this question is worthy of an answer? I don't. I think that it requires me to assume a set of facts that are not in evidence and then to choose between alternatives that you define. Up yours, AC. That may work on gentiles, but it won't work on a Jew <g>.



Then why don't you reveal 'the answer'? You may be surprised by the truth, but then again you've never shown much interest in it.

David Segal


Don't look now David, but you quoted someone else and thought it to be myself. LOL....

[UserName]

UNSC242 only has two requirements, UN. If the Palestinians accept those, that's enough.

1. Recognize the right of Israel to live in recognized borders.
2. Acknowledge and respect Israel's right to live free from threat of violence.

I frankly don't care where the borders are; that's for Israel and the Palestinians to decide by agreement. IMV, the borders should be drawn according to the demographic mix: if there are a majority of Israelis here, this is Israel; if the majority is Palestinians, then it is Palestine. Where the resulting map produces unreasonable difficulties for the one or the other, the difference will be determined according to assuring contiguity. Do you have a problem with this formula?

David Segal

You still haven't answered the question, David. Sure, you say that the Palestinians need to "Recognize the right of Israel to live in recognized borders", but what are these recognized borders?
Israel changes the borders daily, to suit their own greedy purposes. The apartheid wall is being built on recognized Palestinian land, so does this mean the wall is the new border? When does the thieving stop, David? Will it ever stop?

[Krome]

Israel dont recognise the borders at all. They are currently selling land in Palestine which they havent yet stolen.

[David Lyle Segal]

Israel dont recognise the borders at all. They are currently selling land in Palestine which they havent yet stolen.

What land and what borders are you referring to?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Don't look now David, but you quoted someone else and thought it to be myself. LOL....

You're right in regard to the "up yours". It was intended for UN. But, then again, you earned the same response at message #124:

AC> The Torah specifically forbids any Jew from taking the Holy Land before the appointed time. If any real Jew decides to live in the Holy Land today, they risk facing death without any Divine intervention to save their lives. If any chooses to disobey their dogma, they obviously have no need of Divine protection.

Israel is not a Jewish theocracy, much as you would like people to believe otherwise. One of its main objectives is to provide sanctuary for Jews, not to further Judaism. If you can't understand the difference, then you need to study harder. If you do understand the difference, then you're guilty of distortion.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

You still haven't answered the question, David. Sure, you say that the Palestinians need to "Recognize the right of Israel to live in recognized borders", but what are these recognized borders?

The borders recognized in the peace agreement called for by 242, dummy.

UN: Israel changes the borders daily, to suit their own greedy purposes.


????

UN: The apartheid wall is being built on recognized Palestinian land, so does this mean the wall is the new border? When does the thieving stop, David? Will it ever stop?

Recognized by what legal document, UN? You are still putting your creaky cart before your lying horse. The Green Line is not a border. It never was.
It is a ceasefire line that lost all legal significance when the Jordanians were driven back across the Jordan River in 1967.

You can't tell what is Palestinian land from what is Israeli land until there is an agreed border; until then, Israelis may legally live anywhere between the Mediterranean Sea and the river. If they hadn't lost their wars in 1948 and 1967, the Palestinian Arabs could too, but now they'll just have to make peace first.

Would youo have been as solicitous of the Jews' rights to live in the Old City, Gush Etzion, or Hebron if the Arabs had won in 1967? Somehow I think that you would have been more swept up by the words of Ahmed Shukeiry (then the head of the PLO) on the eve of the Six Day War in answer to what would happen to the Jews when the Arab forces invaded:

There will be practically no Jewish survivors.

NB: he was not referring to Israeli soldiers, but to Jewish residents of Israel.


David Segal

[UserName]

The borders recognized in the peace agreement called for by 242, dummy.
You can call me all sorts of names David, you won't hurt my feelings and it shows your frustration with the futility of your argument.;)

UNSC Resolution 242 calls for "the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East" to be achieved by "the application of both the following principles:" "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict" (see semantic dispute) and: "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and respect for the right of every state in the area to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.

This simple explanation clearly demonstrates your utter lack of knowledge when it comes to this dispute.

Now, does Israel have a different set of "Recognized" borders than everyone else because they seem to be expanding daily.


????

I realize you're not the sharpest tool in the shed, but the theft of Palestinian land for the Zionists apartheid wall is well known. You should read the reports generated by a multitude of countries interested in peace in the region. Every Israeli should be ashamed.
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/KARI-79ERNS?OpenDocument


Recognized by what legal document, UN? You are still putting your creaky cart before your lying horse. The Green Line is not a border. It never was.
It is a ceasefire line that lost all legal significance when the Jordanians were driven back across the Jordan River in 1967.


There are several documents, but Israel continues to steal land outside all the recognized borders. Have a look at what Israel calls it's borders and they still want to annex more land. Israeli thieves will simply never be satisfied.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/finalmap.html


You can't tell what is Palestinian land from what is Israeli land until there is an agreed border; until then, Israelis may legally live anywhere between the Mediterranean Sea and the river. If they hadn't lost their wars in 1948 and 1967, the Palestinian Arabs could too, but now they'll just have to make peace first.

Wrong again, David. Due to your lack of knowledge on the subject, and your clear inability to comprehend the concept of "theft", I have to remind you that Israel has agreed to borders with their neighbors. It is only in the West Bank where Israel has wanted to steal more land and has not agreed to any borders.

Would youo have been as solicitous of the Jews' rights to live in the Old City, Gush Etzion, or Hebron if the Arabs had won in 1967? Somehow I think that you would have been more swept up by the words of Ahmed Shukeiry (then the head of the PLO) on the eve of the Six Day War in answer to what would happen to the Jews when the Arab forces invaded:

There will be practically no Jewish survivors.

NB: he was not referring to Israeli soldiers, but to Jewish residents of Israel.

David Segal

You don't know what I think, and don't presume to put words in my mouth. It makes you look like you're grasping at straws because you have nothing concrete to back your stupid assumptions.

"I vow that if I was just an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him".
Ariel Sharon

There is much animosity on both sides, David. And the side that puts this animosity aside first will be the true winner. By looking at your hate-filled diatribe, I believe it will not be the thieving Israelis.

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> The borders recognized in the peace agreement called for by 242, dummy.

UN> UNSC Resolution 242 calls for "the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East" to be achieved by "the application of both the following principles:" "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict" (see semantic dispute) and: "Termination of all claims or states of belligerency" and respect for the right of every state in the area to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries.

This simple explanation clearly demonstrates your utter lack of knowledge when it comes to this dispute. Now, does Israel have a different set of "Recognized" borders than everyone else because they seem to be expanding daily.

Your reading distorts the meaning of the resolution to say something that was never intended. In fact, the resolution's authors all testify that it means no such thing:

1. Arthur Goldberg, US Ambassador to UN:

[T]he resolution stipulates withdrawal from occupied territories without defining the extent of withdrawal. And it can be inferred from the incorporation of the words secure and recognized boundaries that the territorial adjustments to be made by the parties in their peace settlements could encompass less than a complete withdrawal of Israeli forces from occupied territories. American Foreign Policy Interests, 1988.

[H]ow is the withdrawal issue to be settled? By direct negotiations between the concerned parties. Resolution 242 calls for agreement between them to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement. Agreement and acceptance necessarily require negotiations. Christian Science Monitor, Middle East Prospects, July 9, 1985.

2. Hugh M Foot (Lord Caradon), permanent representative of the United Kingdom to the United Nations, 1964-1970, and chief drafter of Resolution 242:

[Y]ou couldn’t hold territory because you conquered it, therefore there must be a withdrawal to – let’s read the words carefully – “secure and recognized boundaries.” They can only be secure if they are recognized. The boundaries have to be agreed; it’s only when you get agreement that you get security. ... [S]ecurity ...can only come from agreement and mutual respect and understanding. Journal of Palestine Studies, "An Interview with Lord Caradon", Spring-Summer 1976, pp. 144-45.

It would have been wrong to demand that Israel return to its positions of 4 June 1967 because those positions were undesirable and artificial. After all, they were just the places the soldiers of each side happened to be the day the fighting stopped in 1948. They were just armistice lines. That's why we didn't demand that the Israelis return to them.... Lebanon Daily Star, June 12, 1974.


DLS> Recognized by what legal document, UN? You are still putting your creaky cart before your lying horse. The Green Line is not a border. It never was. It is a ceasefire line that lost all legal significance when the Jordanians were driven back across the Jordan River in 1967.

UN> There are several documents, but Israel continues to steal land outside all the recognized borders. Have a look at what Israel calls it's borders and they still want to annex more land. Israeli thieves will simply never be satisfied. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../finalmap.html

Let me ask the question one more time: recognized by what legal document? So far, you don't seem to have one to point to.

DLS> You can't tell what is Palestinian land from what is Israeli land until there is an agreed border; until then, Israelis may legally live anywhere between the Mediterranean Sea and the river. If they hadn't lost their wars in 1948 and 1967, the Palestinian Arabs could too, but now they'll just have to make peace first.

UN> Wrong again, David. Due to your lack of knowledge on the subject, and your clear inability to comprehend the concept of "theft", I have to remind you that Israel has agreed to borders with their neighbors. It is only in the West Bank where Israel has wanted to steal more land and has not agreed to any borders.

OK, Bigshot. Where does Israel end and the Arab state begin? Where are the borders, and why do you think so? The 1949 armistice agreement says the Green Line isn't a political border. The authors of UNSC242 say the same thing. Surely you must have some smoking gun in your hand to show why they are in error. If you don't, then put it back in your pants.

UN> There is much animosity on both sides, David. And the side that puts this animosity aside first will be the true winner.

I really have to laugh when I read crap like this. If it weren't for Israel, the Palestinians would never have had a chance for a state at all. Egypt, Syria, and Transjordan would have gobbled them up in 1948. Not one of those countries invaded to assure the Palestinians the opportunity for self-determination; they invaded to gain territory for themselves.

In 1967, when Israel drove out the invaders, she immediately (June 19) offered to go back behind the Green Line and give up the Sinai and the Golan Heights, so long as the Arabs agreed to a peace treaty. In September, as you well know, the Three Noes resolution of the Arab League was in place: No recognition, no negotiation, no peace. It was Israel who offered to "put this animosity aside"; it was the Palestinians (and the others) who refused.

In 1993, Israel even agreed to admit the arch-terrorist Palestinian Liberation Organization to Gaza and the West Bank on the latter's solemn (and Nobel Prize winning) commitment to make peace. Israel didn't have to do this; she did it because she was willing to 'put this animosity aside'. Once ensconced in Ramallah, however, Rais Arafat revealed that his purpose in making the peace pledge was nothing but a subterfuge:

In order to obtain the goal of returning to Palestine, all of us sometimes have to grit our teeth. But it is forbidden that this harm the continued struggle against the Zionist enemy. Cooperation and understanding between the PLO and the rejectionist organisations is what will lead to the speedy retreat of Israel from the occupied territories in the first stage, until the establishment of a Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem. Only a state like that can then continue the struggle to remove the enemy from all Palestinian lands. (speech, Johannesburg, 1994)

UN> By looking at your hate-filled diatribe, I believe it will not be the thieving Israelis.

When you decide to put aside the 'thieving Israelis' rhetoric and start thinking like you actually want to help the sides find accommodation of their very real differences, then you'll merit respectful consideration. So long as you keep demanding, you'll merit only ridicule. As it is, you feel the need to make up lies about history, make up fanciful interpretations of UN resolutions, and make up character assassinations of Israel in order to give your arguments weight. Try honest truth for once. "Put aside" your animosity and you will be rewarded. I'm sure. I have it on good authority.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

UserName I am sure by now you can see that trying to have an open and honest discussion with a Rabid Zionist is a futile endevour.

No matter what evidence that you present. It will never meet his acceptence. A Zionist will insist on setting the rules and conditions for the dialogue. Once you have succeded in meeting these obtuse and arcane demands. He will declaire that you are still wrong and didn't actually understand the origional questions.

The Zionist mind enjoys circular reasoning designed to wear down an opponent and eventually dominate all people; especially gentiles. To him argument is an art form handed down thru the ages from father to son. Cleverness and deception is considered a virtue not a vice.

This is why the Palesinians will Never, Ever, get a fair deal in any negotians with the Zionists. Period.

[David Lyle Segal]

UserName I am sure by now you can see that trying to have an open and honest discussion with a Rabid Zionist is a futile endevour.

No matter what evidence that you present. It will never meet his acceptence. A Zionist will insist on setting the rules and conditions for the dialogue. Once you have succeded in meeting these obtuse and arcane demands. He will declaire that you are still wrong and didn't actually understand the origional questions.

The Zionist mind enjoys circular reasoning designed to wear down an opponent and eventually dominate all people; especially gentiles. To him argument is an art form handed down thru the ages from father to son. Cleverness and deception is considered a virtue not a vice.

This is why the Palesinians will Never, Ever, get a fair deal in any negotians with the Zionists. Period.

C'mon, IR. Admit it. You're really Patrick Grimm (http://zionistwatch.wordpress.com/2007/07/) and the power behind jewwatch.com.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

C'mon, IR. Admit it. You're really Patrick Grimm (http://zionistwatch.wordpress.com/2007/07/) and the power behind jewwatch.com.

David SegalNo, I am not. But thanks for the site. It is very interesting!

[Smurf-Herder]

UserName I am sure by now you can see that trying to have an open and honest discussion with a Rabid Zionist is a futile endevour.

No matter what evidence that you present. It will never meet his acceptence. A Zionist will insist on setting the rules and conditions for the dialogue. Once you have succeded in meeting these obtuse and arcane demands. He will declaire that you are still wrong and didn't actually understand the origional questions.

The Zionist mind enjoys circular reasoning designed to wear down an opponent and eventually dominate all people; especially gentiles. To him argument is an art form handed down thru the ages from father to son. Cleverness and deception is considered a virtue not a vice.

This is why the Palesinians will Never, Ever, get a fair deal in any negotians with the Zionists. Period.

The same can be said of Muslims, with their broad interpretation of the doctrine of Taqiyya (lying for Islam).

[Islam Rocks!]

The same can be said of Muslims, with their broad interpretation of the doctrine of Taqiyya (lying for Islam).I see you are doing some home work learning about Islam.

Now here is the real story on Taqiyya

In Islam it is against the religion to tell a lie. Period

But there was a delima. What if you were captured by the enemy and were being interragated . Are you bound to tell the enemy the truth about your mission.

Religious scholars ruled that Taqiyya is allowed during a time of war or to save the lives of other people.

Taqiyya has also been expanded when it comes to hurting another persons feelings. Like if you wife says " do I look fat in this dress"?
A man is allowed to answer in the negative no matter what his eyes see. :D

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> The Zionist mind enjoys circular reasoning designed to wear down an opponent and eventually dominate all people; especially gentiles. To him argument is an art form handed down thru the ages from father to son. Cleverness and deception is considered a virtue not a vice.

Now where have I seen words like that used in connection with Jews instead of Zionists? ."Circular reasoning", "dominate all people; especially gentiles", "handed down thru the ages from father to son", "cleverness and deception .. a virture not a vice". Hmmm. The Zionists haven't even been around for "ages", IR. Are you sure you aren't plagiarizing Julius Streicher?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Now where have I seen words like that used in connection with Jews instead of Zionists? ."Circular reasoning", "dominate all people; especially gentiles", "handed down thru the ages from father to son", "cleverness and deception .. a virture not a vice". Hmmm. The Zionists haven't even been around for "ages", IR. Are you sure you aren't plagiarizing Julius Streicher?

David Segal
Honest DLS, I haven't ever heard of or read any of these people that you keep mentioning. Those are just my personal observations.
That web site you posted was the first time I ever visited an anti jewish site.

Like I said before, I am not against Jews. Just Zionists.

But I do know that all ethnic groups and races have traits and peculiar idiosyncries unique to themselves. Standup comics make a living pointing these things out. Jews have no more or less of stereotyped behaviors than other groups. Just different ones.

[David Lyle Segal]

Honest DLS, I haven't ever heard of or read any of these people that you keep mentioning. Those are just my personal observations. That web site you posted was the first time I ever visited an anti jewish site.

Sure, IR. You may think that you're original, but your choice of long-standing, hackneyed codewords and phrases gives you away. I certainly never gave yiou many points for literacy (viz., message 1 in this thread), but you've certainly learned quickly from the classic anti-Semites who pollute the web (and print). I'm sure that others in the thread smelled the shopworn Jew-baiting cliches as quickly as I did.

Like I said before, I am not against Jews. Just Zionists. But I do know that all ethnic groups and races have traits and peculiar idiosyncries unique to themselves. Standup comics make a living pointing these things out. Jews have no more or less of stereotyped behaviors than other groups. Just different ones.

Yeah? Like "teach it to their sons"? Like "dominate the world"? Some taqqiyah-true Muslim you turned out to be. You're busted as an ingnorant poseur who only pretends to Islam.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure, IR. You may think that you're original, but your choice of long-standing, hackneyed codewords and phrases gives you away. I certainly never gave yiou many points for literacy (viz., message 1 in this thread), but you've certainly learned quickly from the classic anti-Semites who pollute the web (and print). I'm sure that others in the thread smelled the shopworn Jew-baiting cliches as quickly as I did.



Yeah? Like "teach it to their sons"? Like "dominate the world"? Some taqqiyah-true Muslim you turned out to be. You're busted as an ingnorant poseur who only pretends to Islam.

David Segal
I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years. There was a period in my life where I started to find flaws in the New Testament. Namely that Jesus wasn't G-D and that the Levitical Laws should still be in effect. The Sabbath is really on saturday and eating pork is an abomination.

I decided to learn more about the Old Testament in hopes of boosting my faith in the New Testament. After all it preceded the Gospels. So I became a student of the Torah. Spent time learning the Hebrew alif-beit and some words. Went to the Synagogue and attended services, and the high holidays.
That was the period when I meet and learned about the Jewish people. Their books, what they think and how they act. Just personal observation.
Not from web sites as you imply.

I know you will be curious about my converting to Islam. In a nut shell;

One day I was at Barnes & Noble and picked up a copy of the Quran. As I read the book I immediately knew my spiritual quest was over. The Quran embodied everyhing that I had come to believe about spirituality, religion, morals, society, laws, history, politics, etc.

Poser? No, I am not. I have endured alot of hardship since my conversion almost 7 years ago. In Islam it is known as Jihad (struggle)
Tough as it has been, I would do it again in a minute.

[stefan segal]

i r...fundamentalist anything is proof of brain death. You are a cultist. I picked up a koran and in the first thress pages it tells how you should give a non-believer three chances to convert to allah...then you should kill them if they fail to see allah's mercy.

I'm sure you see the value in such a policy. As far as your wife goes, you should have suggested a visit to camel country before you attempted to wrap her in rags...who knows...maybe you did, but she knows you best. I'm glad she was smart enough to get away.

Stefan

[Islam Rocks!]

I picked up a koran and in the first thress pages it tells how you should give a non-believer three chances to convert to allah...then you should kill them if they fail to see allah's mercy.
Stefan
Those first three pages are missing from my copy of the Quran.

Maybe yours is the Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh edition?

[David Lyle Segal]

I know you will be curious about my converting to Islam. In a nut shell; One day I was at Barnes & Noble and picked up a copy of the Quran. As I read the book I immediately knew my spiritual quest was over. The Quran embodied everyhing that I had come to believe about spirituality, religion, morals, society, laws, history, politics, etc. Poser? No, I am not. I have endured alot of hardship since my conversion almost 7 years ago. In Islam it is known as Jihad (struggle) Tough as it has been, I would do it again in a minute.

I wasn't curious at all. Your pretence at spirituality is a farce. I knew it immediately from our first encounter, when you let us know how you 'keep score', and was re-inforced in the first message of this thread by your ridicule of people of the book. Your jihad is nothing more than a Walter Mitty desire to gain identification with those who you think strike fear into the West with their bloodthirstiness and indifference to the humanity of the 'other'.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I wasn't curious at all. Your pretence at spirituality is a farce. I knew it immediately from our first encounter, when you let us know how you 'keep score', and was re-inforced in the first message of this thread by your ridicule of people of the book. Your jihad is nothing more than a Walter Mitty desire to gain identification with those who you think strike fear into the West with their bloodthirstiness and indifference to the humanity of the 'other'.

David Segal
I didn't know that Walter Mitty was penned as an anti-semitic character?

But to the fascist mind of the Zionist. Everyone who's not a Jew is an anti-semitic gentile.

[David Lyle Segal]

I didn't know that Walter Mitty was penned as an anti-semitic character?.

That question says more about your capacity for reading comprehension than anything else, IR.

But to the fascist mind of the Zionist. Everyone who's not a Jew is an anti-semitic gentile.

And that statement shows your unquestioned capacity for self-absorption than anything else. It's monomania is consistent with the incomplete conversion through your jihad. What the hell, Jesus still loves you and is calling you back to the fold.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Hey David Lyle Segal, why don't you live in Israel?

I believe that once you posted that your wife and kids live in Jerusalem.

So why aren't you there Mr. Fake Zionist?

Maybe they couldn't stand your ass so much that they would rather live surrounded by so called terrorists than to be around you!

What man cowardly type of man would move his family to ground zero Jerusalem. The most contested piece of real estate on the planet. And then be afraid to live there himself!

[Islam Rocks!]

Jesus still loves you and is calling you back to the fold.
David SegalNever left!

Muslims believe in Jesus (Isa) as we do all of the Prophets in the Bible. Adam, Moses, Job, Abraham, and the rest of them.

Plus, Muhammad the Seal of the Prophets.

[David Lyle Segal]

Hey David Lyle Segal, why don't you live in Israel? I believe that once you posted that your wife and kids live in Jerusalem. So why aren't you there Mr. Fake Zionist?

I prefer to live here, IR. Do you have a problem with that?

Maybe that couldn't stand your ass so much that they would rather live surrounded by so called terrorists than to be around you!

Well, at least you're starting to use your imagination.

What man cowardly type of man would move his family to ground zero Jerusalem. The most contested piece of real estate on the planet. And then be afraid to live there himself!

Our apartments in Jerusalem are quite comfortable, thankyouverymuch. We can walk to the Kotel anytime we wish. If Jersualem were taken over by the PA, do you think that that freedom would be continued? Or would my daughter have to go back into the Israeli Air Force to make sure?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

What a MAN!

Your daughter has to protect you!?!?

[David Lyle Segal]

What a MAN!

Your daughter has to protect you!?!?

Not me, IR, the freedom of all Jews to worship at the Kotel. Your reading comprehension deficiencies are showing again. Try reading it out loud next time; it may help you.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Not me, IR, the freedom of all Jews to worship at the Kotel. Your reading comprehension deficiencies are showing again. Try reading it out loud next time; it may help you.

David SegalMy mistake

I forgot that you are too afraid to be in Israel yourself.

But donating you daughter as a future human sacrifice to the Zionist cause doesn't say much for your fatherhood.

[David Lyle Segal]

My mistake I forgot that you are too afraid to be in Israel yourself. But donating you daughter as a future human sacrifice to the Zionist cause doesn't say much for your fatherhood.

You know nothing of fatherhood, IR, much less of Israel. All you know is Jew-hatred. Some conversion that took.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

You know nothing of fatherhood, IR, much less of Israel. All you know is Jew-hatred. Some conversion that took.

David SegalI raised 6 children; 2 girls, 4 boys

Once again, I don't hate Jews.

Zionists, now that's another story!

[David Lyle Segal]

I raised 6 children; 2 girls, 4 boys

Once again, I don't hate Jews. Zionists, now that's another story!

Sure. That's why you started this thread to tell us about a "typical day in the life of an American Jew". No Jew-hatred in the images you portrayed there, eh?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure. That's why you started this thread to tell us about a "typical day in the life of an American Jew". No Jew-hatred in the images you portrayed there, eh?

David SegalNo hatred intended. Just humour based on stereotypes.
Plus it started a great thread that has covered several issues.

Maybe I will start one on Mexicans, or Blacks, or Poles, or Blonds, heck even Arabs have jokes about them.

[Islam Rocks!]

Two Arabs are sitting in a Gaza Strip bar chatting over a pint of fermented goat’s milk.

One pulls his wallet out and starts flipping through pictures and they start reminiscing.

"This is my oldest son, he’s a martyr."

"This is my second son. He is a martyr also."

After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Arab says wistfully,
"They blow up so fast, don’t they?"

[UserName]

UserName I am sure by now you can see that trying to have an open and honest discussion with a Rabid Zionist is a futile endevour.

I am aware of that IR. And I am aware that every time an Israeli/Zionist is confronted with the truth they will immediately lash out with their typical "anti-Semite" slur towards you. This doesn't bother me in the least because the more it happens, the more others see how utterly against any sort of peace they truly are.
David and Stefan are simply helping to demonstrate that fact.

The Zionist mind enjoys circular reasoning designed to wear down an opponent and eventually dominate all people; especially gentiles. To him argument is an art form handed down thru the ages from father to son. Cleverness and deception is considered a virtue not a vice.

I am also quite aware how much Zionists hate Gentiles. It is easy to find in their doctrine, but you have to remember that Zionists are not true Jews. They are a putrid collection of misfits from mostly Eastern European countries that could not live with their neighbors there either. They are simply a rancid hoard of misfits that need to be exposed for what they really are.

This is why the Palesinians will Never, Ever, get a fair deal in any negotians with the Zionists. Period.

The Zionists are being exposed, IR. All the Palestinians need to do is hold out for a while longer. The longer they hold out, the more Israel is being exposed for the thieving miscreants they are. Even the true Jews are increasing their efforts to expose the Zionist/Israeli rabble. All you need to do is look at the protests in Israel to see that they don't want peace, they want more, and more, and more.

[David Lyle Segal]

IR: No hatred intended. Just humour based on stereotypes.

Bullshit.

1. After a dream filled with images of gold, diamonds and expensive jewelry, wake up and thank G_d that you're a Jew and not one of those stupid, animalistic gentiles. After all, Jews are the greatest humans on earth.

Is not humor. It is not even a stereotype; it's the image you carry around in your empty head. It's a description designed to engender hatred of Jews.

4. If you don't live in New York City, daydream about moving there someday, since NYC is the greatest place on earth after Israel (it's full of pricey real estate and snotty Jewish chicks with fake-blonde hair).

Is not humor. It's hate-mongering of the worst sort.

19. Hire a young gentile to mow your lawn for $10, but only pay him $5 and tell him you'll pay him the rest later. After he leaves, laugh about what a sucker he is - like you'll ever pay him the other $5! If he complains, call him an "anti-Semite."

Is not humor. Just what 'stereotype' were you repeating here, IR?

20. Worry that White people may one day discover the ugly truth about the Jews.

Are you white, IR? Do you have any idea how many Torah-true Jews aren't?

23. Open your wife's jewelry box and stare at the diamonds until you get an erection.

Where on earth did you dig this 'stereotype' up?

30. Wonder if the little, blonde shiksa next door is "clean enough" to have sex with. Also wonder if she would accept $10 for sex…no, wait…make it $5 - but only if she has a nasal voice and doesn't attend church regularly.

31. Call a local drugstore and demand to know why none of the soap they sell is marked "kosher." Accuse them of "anti-Semitism" if they don't sell kosher soap within 10 days.

Barf. What you try to pass off as humor is nothing more than the expectation that others who hate Jews as much as you would readily identify with this kind of racist trash.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

They are a putrid collection of misfits from mostly Eastern European countries that could not live with their neighbors there either. They are simply a rancid hoard of misfits that need to be exposed for what they really are.

.
You are correct UN.

Most Jews in Israel today have No genetic connection to the Jews in the Torah.

They are decended from the Khazar tribes from central Russia and have No ancestral connection to the land of the Bible.

When the gulible Evangelical Christians help the European Jews go "back" to the promised land. They are never told this fact about their heritage by the Zionists.

[Islam Rocks!]

An Iraqi goes to the bank to get his salary from a French Company. The Saudi manager of the bank asks him to sign on the back of the check.

"That's humiliation," shouts the Iraqi, "why should the French sign on the front and I sign on the back. I want my money NOW!"

The Saudi refuse to pay him and the Iraqi keeps shouting in the bank when the American manager comes with a 5 pound hammer and knocks the Iraqi on the head.

After 5 minutes the Iraqi wakes up, signs the back of the check and gets his money. The Saudi clerk goes to the Iraqi and asks, "Tell me why you didn't sign the check the first time, but signed it later on?"

The Iraqi said, "You missed the point, you just told it to me, but the American explained it."

[Islam Rocks!]

It's hard to find quality field-goal kickers for the Islamic Football League, because league rules allow for kickers who miss from inside 30 yards to have their feet amputated.


O.K. David Lyle Segal are you happy? I posted 3 Arab/Muslim jokes.

[David Lyle Segal]

You are correct UN. Most Jews in Israel today have No genetic connection to the Jews in the Torah. They are decended from the Khazar tribes from central Russia and have No ancestral connection to the land of the Bible. When the gulible Evangelical Christians help the European Jews go "back" to the promised land. They are never told this fact about their heritage by the Zionists.

Just couldn't resist the first opportunity to demonstrate your readiness to repeat popular anti-Semitic nonsense, eh? The supposed Khazar connection is not only nothing but racism in its most virulent form, but wrong on the facts as well. http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html Next time, check your facts before reaching for the keyboard.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

O.K. David Lyle Segal are you happy? I posted 3 Arab/Muslim jokes.

No, you posted one race-based argument against Israel and two lame stories that show nothing more than your willingness to demean Arabs as well as Jews. If, in your mind, being a Jew is a question of religion and not nationality, then you forgot the anti-Muslim part in your 'joke', White Man.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Just couldn't resist the first opportunity to demonstrate your readiness to repeat popular anti-Semitic nonsense, eh? The supposed Khazar connection is not only nothing but racism in its most virulent form, but wrong on the facts as well. http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html Next time, check your facts before reaching for the keyboard.

David SegalYea, like I am going to believe a Zionist/Jewish web site. No agenda there! Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Islam Rocks!]

No, you posted one race-based argument against Israel and two lame stories that show nothing more than your willingness to demean Arabs as well as Jews. If, in your mind, being a Jew is a question of religion and not nationality, then you forgot the anti-Muslim part in your 'joke', White Man.

David SegalThanks for once again proving my point. No wonder the Palesinians can't ever get a fair deal from the Zionist Israelies.

No matter what peace offering or negotiation is offered. It isn't accepted.

Zionist Jews want to frame the debate, dictate the rules, qualify the participants, set the time table, and quantify the negotiations.

Once all of these Zionist demands are meet. They then declare that the rules have changed and the talks must be restarted again from the beginning.

ON and on and on they go................................................ .........................

I have just described Zionist Heaven!!!!

[David Lyle Segal]

Yea, like I am going to believe a Zionist/Jewish web site. No agenda there! Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, IR. After all, who would know less about the Jews than the Jews themselves?

Like you have any evidence at all to support your Khazar theory.

Or can continue to think that your race-based theory has any legitimacy at all in the first place.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure, IR. Like you have any evidence at all to support your Khazar theory.

David SegalTheory?????????????

Look in any encyclopedia under Khazar!!!!!

They converted to Judiasm. Duh!!

[David Lyle Segal]

No matter what peace offering or negotiation is offered. It isn't accepted.

Was there a peace offering or negotiation on the table? Is that why throwing out anti-Israel racism and two lame jokes about Arabs was about? Boy is your ego tender to the touch.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Theory????????????? Look in any encyclopedia under Khazar!!!!! They converted to Judiasm. Duh!!

So what? How does the Khazar conversion lead to the conclusion that all of the European Jews were descended from Khazars? Just to name two althernatives, during the Roman Empire about 20% of all Spaniards were Jews. Likewise a sizeable number of those in Italy were Jews.

And what has still not sunk through your dogma is the utter illegitimacy of trying to construct a race-based argument in the first place. That's no better than your remark that American Jews should be concerned about what "white people" know about them (your paragraph #20 in message #1 of this thread).

Whatever happened to the Q'ran's teaching to respect People of the Book?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

So what? How does the Khazar conversion lead to the conclusion that all of the European Jews were descended from Khazars? Just to name two althernatives, during the Roman Empire about 20% of all Spaniards were Jews. Likewise a sizeable number of those in Italy were Jews.

And what has still not sunk through your dogma is the utter illegitimacy of trying to construct a race-based argument in the first place. That's no better than your remark that American Jews should be concerned about what "white people" know about them (your paragraph #20 in message #1 of this thread).

Whatever happened to the Q'ran's teaching to respect People of the Book?

David SegalI will repeat again. I am Not against Jews. But I am against Zionists.

Modern day Zionism is basically a political movement and not a religious one.

Most dedicated Zionists are are secularists, as are the majority of Jews in Israel today.

[David Lyle Segal]

Modern day Zionism is basically a political movement and not a religious one.

And just what is the political objective of this movement, IR?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

I will repeat again. I am Not against Jews. But I am against Zionists.

As often as you say so, you can't resist taking miserable, racist, hate-mongering shots at Jews, can you?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

And just what is the political objective of this movement, IR?

David SegalYou are the self proclaimed Zionist. You ought to know what you believe in!!

Why should I waste my time explaining it to you?

[David Lyle Segal]

You are the self proclaimed Zionist. You ought to know what you believe in!! Why should I waste my time explaining it to you?

I wasn't the one to call it a 'political' movement. You did. And now you're trying to duck explaining what you meant. No surprise there.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I wasn't the one to call it a 'political' movement. You did. And now you're trying to duck explaining what you meant. No surprise there.

David SegalAnyone can look up the origins of the political movement known as Zionism. Track it's evolution leading to the foundation of the state of Israel. And the continuation of it's stated goals and purpose.

[David Lyle Segal]

Anyone can look up the origins of the political movement known as Zionism. Track it's evolution leading to the foundation of the state of Israel. And the continuation of it's stated goals and purpose.

That's twice in a row that you've shied away from explaining your use of the term 'political movement' in connection with Zionism. Still shucking and jiving, eh? C'mon, IR. You must have meant something when you wrote it. Afraid of a little substantive discussion again?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

That's twice in a row that you've shied away from explaining your use of the term 'political movement' in connection with Zionism. Still shucking and jiving, eh? C'mon, IR. You must have meant something when you wrote it. Afraid of a little substantive discussion again?

David SegalO.K. DLS

Since no answer I could ever give would be satisfactory.

Will you please explain what Zionism is about. I am an open minded individual so enlighten me.

I am leaving to go to the store. So don't just make your answer a simple one liner. You'll have plenty of time since I will be gone for a couple of hours.

Please give me a detailed answer and not a bunch of cut and paste.

Thanks!

[David Lyle Segal]

O.K. DLS Since no answer I could ever give would be satisfactory. Will you please explain what Zionism is about. I am an open minded individual so enlighten me. I am leaving to go to the store. So don't just make your answer a simple one liner. You'll have plenty of time since I will be gone for a couple of hours. Please give me a detailed answer and not a bunch of cut and paste.Thanks!

I love it. You say that Zionism is a secular political movement and now you ask me, of all people, to explain what you had in your mind when you wrote it. What do you care if I find your explanation insufficient? That only us the opportunity to explore the subject further.

But when you chicken out and refuse to explain yourself in the first instance, I can only conclude that you had nothing in mind when you chose to use four-syllable words. One last chance, IR: what are the political objectives that make Zionism a political movement?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Yea, like I am going to believe a Zionist/Jewish web site. No agenda there! Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't write for your edification, but for that of those who are following our back-and-forth. You are clearly well beyond the pale of rationality. You think that being Jewish is some sort of status crime: if a Jew wrote it, it must be a lie. I thought that that idea went out with Hitler, but I guess that you can never count the most virulent diseases as 100% eliminated, can you?

Now, if you had done the minimum and actually gone through the website, you would have seen not a whiff of Zionism at all, just scientific and historical analysis (some of it, at least, written by Jews). Of course, if Jews are -- because they are Jews -- not to be believed, then I can understand your conclusion. That's consistent with your blatant anti-Semitism.

Funny how you lost another opportunity to study the findings of several Muslim scholars on the subject. See what you missed in your haste?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I love it. You say that Zionism is a secular political movement and now you ask me, of all people, to explain what you had in your mind when you wrote it. What do you care if I find your explanation insufficient? That only us the opportunity to explore the subject further.

But when you chicken out and refuse to explain yourself in the first instance, I can only conclude that you had nothing in mind when you chose to use four-syllable words. One last chance, IR: what are the political objectives that make Zionism a political movement?

David SegalHow disappointing!

I came back from shopping expecting to read your erudite knowledge on the subject. Only to find more intellectual posturing. I was looking forwad to hearing the supposedly true facts straight from the Zionists mouth.

I sure hope that you are not a salesman for a living!

I was like a customer who handed you a blank check and said "explain the benifits of you product so I will want to buy it".
And you responded with " No Mr. Customer, you must FIRST show me how little you know about the product".

Now DLS that dosen't make a lick of sense to this country boy!!!

So here David the Zionist, is the opening bid: Theodor Herzl is universally considered the Father of Political Zionism. True or False?

[David Lyle Segal]

How disappointing! I came back from shopping expecting to read your erudite knowledge on the subject. Only to find more intellectual posturing. I was looking forwad to hearing the supposedly true facts straight from the Zionists mouth.

Now that's funny, IR. I was just waiting for a straight answer to a straight question, what did you mean when you called Zionism a political movement? What I wasn't doing was expecting you to duck the question for the third time.

I was like a customer who handed you a blank check and said "explain the benifits of you product so I will want to buy it". And you responded with " No Mr. Customer, you must FIRST show me how little you know about the product". Now DLS that dosen't make a lick of sense to this country boy!!!

I'm not selling Zionism, IR. You're not my 'customer'. And you're sure no 'country boy'. You've been around the block. You've gone from fundamentalist Christian to committed Muslim. You've 'raised' 2 girls and 4 boys. You even work for a Jew and tell what you call Jewish and Arab 'jokes'.

So tell me, IR: what did you mean when you called Zionism a 'political movement'?


David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I now have complete empathy for those poor Palestinians that have to try and negotiate with you Zoinists. May Allah grant them immediate entry into Paradise upon their death for the suffering they have had to endure!!!

I made an opening statement linked with a simple "True or False" question.

I know, I know, I should have made it a "Yes or No" for the anwser, and not a True or False.

Here I will indulge you: Political Zionism is a Movement that basically was birthed by Theodor Herzl. The ultimate goal of the movement was to found a state in the area of Palestine. The process took many years of political intrigue and back room dealing. Comming to reality in 1948 with the backing of the United Nations.
Political Zionism continues to be a driving force in Israels eradication of the Palestinian people and forging of a unique Jewish identity in the middle east.

Now show me the error in this. Please........!

[David Lyle Segal]

Here I will indulge you: Political Zionism is a Movement that basically was birthed by Theodor Herzl. The ultimate goal of the movement was to found a state in the area of Palestine. The process took many years of political intrigue and back room dealing. Comming to reality in 1948 with the backing of the United Nations. Political Zionism continues to be a driving force in Israels eradication of the Palestinian people and forging of a unique Jewish identity in the middle east. Now show me the error in this.

You're not indulging me, IR. After all, you were the one to describe Zionism as a political movement. I only asked you what you meant by the term. And now I know: you have no understanding of Zionism at all. Before indulging your fantasies further, I'd recommend that you at least read what Herzl had to say about it. Der Judenstaat, after all, isn't a long book. You can read a translation at the Jewish Virtual Library site.

Zionism's objective was and is to assure Jews of sanctuary from oppression. Herzl didn't found the movement to form a country, but to save Jewish lives from European and Russian anti-Semitism. Having a Jewish country out from under the sufferance of those who despised the Jews was only a means for this goal's realization. Any means would have sufficed, but it was Herzl's conclusion in the light of resurgent anti-Semitism that he saw in France and the Czar's pogroms against the Jews in the Pale of Settlement that nothing else would assure their safety.

David Segal

[UserName]

Zionism's objective was and is to assure Jews of sanctuary from oppression.
Which is a noble cause. But to secure a sanctuary for Zionists by oppression of Palestinians simply defeats the purpose. You whine and cry about being "oppressed" while carrying out one of the most oppressive campaigns man has ever seen.

Herzl didn't found the movement to form a country, but to save Jewish lives from European and Russian anti-Semitism. Having a Jewish country out from under the sufferance of those who despised the Jews was only a means for this goal's realization.

Israel does not deserve to escape criticism for its crimes against humanity because Nazis killed so many Jews. Israel will go down in history, with scientific analysis and factual evidence, and be placed on a par with Nazi Germany because of their genocide/ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people of Palestine.
Your "goal", my Zionist friend, has caused more death, destruction, and hatred over the last 50 years than even Herzl could have even imagined. I highly doubt this current "State of Israel" is what Herzl wanted.


And you talk about never being able to achieve peace with the Palestinians. Why should the victim of theft negotiate with the thief? All that does is legitimize the crime by making the victim and assailant moral equals. Yet, absurdly, this is precisely what Zionist Israelis expect the Palestinians to do: Sit down with the criminal Israelis and legitimize a decades-long theft of life, land and property.
This puerile stupidity clearly puts Zionists in the same category as Prokaryotes and Telemarketers as the lowest forms of life on Earth.

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> Zionism's objective was and is to assure Jews of sanctuary from oppression.

UN> Which is a noble cause. But to secure a sanctuary for Zionists by oppression of Palestinians simply defeats the purpose. You whine and cry about being "oppressed" while carrying out one of the most oppressive campaigns man has ever seen.

1. I don't whine or cry about being 'oppressed'. The Zionists had no desire to oppress anyone in order to secure the sanctuary. They were even happy to have a bi-national state for the first half of the British Mandate. It took the Arabs to convince them that the idea was a nonstarter.

2. The Zionists came to the British Mandate by right, not by invasion. The sovereign invited them to come in large numbers and "close[ly] settle" and build the Jewish national homeland. When they came, the Zionists abided by British Mandatory law. They did not attack or oppress the Arab residents in any way. They bought land legally and lived on it lawfully. They built businesses and farms. They sought accommodation with the Arabs.

3. It was the Arabs who rejected the Jews. Violently. They not only sought to prevent the Jews from immigrating, but attacked those who came with murder and mayhem. They rioted in 1920, 1921, and 1922, laying waste to Jewish homes and businesses. In 1929 they massacred over 60 in Hebron and more in Safed, Jerusalem and Tiberias. They attacked Jewish farms while they were under construction.

4. During all this time and up until 1936, the Jews didn't attack the Arabs or oppress them in any way. In 1936 the Arabs started the Arab Revolt, a country-wide effort to wipe out the Jews, growing to 10,000 Arab fighters by 1938. They attacked Jews on buses and in the markets. They ambushed farmers in their fields. They bombed the Trans Arabian pipeline from Kirkuk to Haifa. It was this revolt that finally severed all chance of a bi-national state and pointed the way to partition.

5. After World War II, in which the Jews sided with the British and the Arab with the Germans, the scramble between Jews and Arabs began in earnest, the Jews seeking the part of Palestine in which they were in the majority as their state and the Arabs seeking to take the whole thing. The UN endorsed partition, whereupon the Arabs began anew the war against the Jews. Not just the Zionists, mind you, but all Jews. Anywhere. On buses. In the markets. In their homes. Anywhere they could find them.

6. The Jews won that war. And the next war, too. Do you hear me crying or whining, UN? Hardly. These events were not driven by Zionist oppression, but by Arab rejection, expressed in the most violent and inhumane forms. The Arabs set the standards of conduct. They had over twenty years to find accommodation with the Jews and they opted for trial by combat. Had they won, there wouldn't be any Jews left in Palestine. If anyone is whining, it's you, for the Arabs' poor showing in the war they brought to Palestine.

7. In 1993, Israel once again sought accommodation with the Arabs, and, ultimately, the Arabs rejected it. If I regret anything, it's the Arabs' consistent choice of 'never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity.' Israel, as Abba Eban said in the preceding quote, does, too.

8. You don't like Israel's vision of a two-state solution; you prefer the Palestinians'. Too bad. But don't whine about it. Israel has earned the better bargaining position (can you imagine what the Palestinians would do if the tables were turned?). Don't cry about it, UN; use something more persuasive than threats of war and terror to show Israel why she should listen to you. Israel has nothing to apologize for in winning the wars and she's not about to back down when threatened. The Middle East is a tough neighborhood; backing down is taken for weakness (viz., the Gaza withdrawal).

9. According to yesterday's Jerusalem Post, the Palestinian police are still ambushing Jews who offer them no injury. A few days ago, they gunned down Ido Zoltan while he was driving past a Palestinian village. If you don't like Israel's security measures to protect her citizens from death at the hands of the Palestinians, then don't whine about it; show the Palestinians how it's in their interest to desist from Jew-killing.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> Herzl didn't found the movement to form a country, but to save Jewish lives from European and Russian anti-Semitism. Having a Jewish country out from under the sufferance of those who despised the Jews was only a means for this goal's realization.

UN> Israel does not deserve to escape criticism for its crimes against humanity because Nazis killed so many Jews. Israel will go down in history, with scientific analysis and factual evidence, and be placed on a par with Nazi Germany because of their genocide/ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people of Palestine.

Sigh. As my favorite politician, Marge Tartaglione likes to ask, "Are you done yet? Did you remember to wipe yourself?"

UN> Your "goal", my Zionist friend, has caused more death, destruction, and hatred over the last 50 years than even Herzl could have even imagined. I highly doubt this current "State of Israel" is what Herzl wanted.

I just love it when people blame the Jews for anti-Semitism.

UN> And you talk about never being able to achieve peace with the Palestinians.

Uh, UN. You can look all over my writings and you will not find any instance in which I have said any such thing. I'm the optimist. I believe that peace is achievable. I even wrote a plan for it.

UN> Why should the victim of theft negotiate with the thief? All that does is legitimize the crime by making the victim and assailant moral equals. Yet, absurdly, this is precisely what Zionist Israelis expect the Palestinians to do: Sit down with the criminal Israelis and legitimize a decades-long theft of life, land and property.

It seems to me, UN, that your counsel to the Palestinians is that they should never make peace with the Israelis. How about you come up with some intelligent, imaginative, and useful ideas about how 6,000,000 Jews can make peace with 5,000,000 Palestinians and stop with the shitstorm?

David Segal

[Jesse Hemingway]

O’Malley Hugs Olmert, While USS Liberty Is Forgotten
William Hughes


“Time’s glory is...to wrong the wronger, till he render right.” - William Shakespeare, the Bard of Avon

On Nov. 27, 2007, an ultra-hyped, one-day Mideast parley was held in Annapolis, MD, the capital of the state. This is also where the U.S. Naval Academy is located. The idea that the hawkish Bush-Cheney Gang is going to successfully broker an Israel/Palestine peace is absurd. In a show-off-like gesture Maryland’s Governor, Martin O’Malley invited Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, for lunch on that day. But, he deliberately chose to exclude the President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas. The luncheon took place in the Governor’s Mansion. O’Malley, instead of acting like a statesman, came off as a lackey for the Israel Lobby, while also embarrassing many Marylanders.

James J. Zogby was right to take strong exception to Gov. O’Malley’s boorish conduct. He said: “This was a perfect time to build that tie [with the Palestinian community] and to send a message to both parties that the governor is committed to peace. In diplomacy, everything matters, so if you’re invited to someone’s state and you’re there to make peace with someone and the person you’re making peace with isn’t invited, it sends a message, and that message is one of slight.” (1) Mr. Zogby, an activist, is the President of the Arab American Institute.

This isn’t the first occasion that Gov. O’Malley’s sucking up to the Israel Lobby has caused Marylanders to cringe. Last summer, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) invaded Lebanon, with little justification, and began bombing the country back to the Stone Age. They dropped over 1,000,000 cluster bombs there. During this bloodstained campaign, the IDF specifically targeted the village of Qana (Cana) for attack and reportedly killed 28 civilians, mostly women and children. (2) This is the site where, according to the Holy Bible, Jesus performed his first miracle. So how did Gov. O’Malley, a wannabe diplomat, respond to the IDF’s invasion? Well, he showed up at a pro-Olmert, pro-Israel rally, which was held in Baltimore, to loudly cheerlead for the rampaging Zionist hordes. Since then, both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have charged Olmert’s Israel with “War Crimes” for its alleged barbarous conduct in Lebanon. (3)

On Nov. 27th, I was in Annapolis covering the demonstration, at the Naval Academy, near Gate 1. I was upset that Olmert was even in the city. If it were up to me, he would have never been permitted to step foot in America. His regime’s egregious wrongdoings in Lebanon, and also Israel’s abysmal treatment of the Palestinian people for over four decades of human rights abuses, are just two reasons why. Israeli-Occupied Gaza is a hell on earth for its residents. (4) When its 1.4 million citizens were being besieged daily by lethal missile strikes from the IDF, Olmert’s limp defense was: “Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!”

Then, for me, there is the matter of Annapolis itself. My first memory of this picturesque port city goes back to just after WWII. Sitting on the Severn River, it is steeped in the history of the Republic. It was in the State House, located across the street from the Governor’s Mansion, where General George Washington, the hero of the War for Independence, resigned his commission, on Dec. 23, 1783, as the leader of the Continental Army. For a short period, Annapolis was even the capital of the United States.

Getting back to the protest action, I was pleased to see Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, of Neturei Karta International, there. He is a fearless opponent of the ideology of Zionism. (5) All of this, brings me to the issue of the IDF, its murderous attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, and the ongoing 40 years-plus struggle for justice by the survivors of that vessel, and their supporters. (6)

On June 8, 1967, 34 Americans on the USS Liberty were slaughtered by the IDF, including one Marylander, William B. Allenbaugh, (CT-3, U.S. Navy). Two of its slain crew members, Lt. Commander Philip McCutcheson Armstrong, Jr. and Lt. Stephen Spencer Toth, were graduates of the U.S. Naval Academy. The Zionist Propaganda Machine has insisted the attack, which took place in international waters, was “an accident.” This is the same dubious excuse used to justify the IDF using a 60-ton bulldozer to run over and kill peace activist Rachel Corrie, at Rafah, Occupied Palestine, on March 16, 2003. She was a resident of Olympia, WA, who was trying to stop a Palestinian home from being destroyed by the IDF. Ms. Corrie was only 23 years old. The Israeli bulldozer, all 60 tons of it, ran over her not once--but twice! (7)

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/12/03/p21599#more21599

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/pastnews.php?s=uss+liberty&sentence=AND&submit=Search

[UserName]

Sigh. As my favorite politician, Marge Tartaglione likes to ask, "Are you done yet? Did you remember to wipe yourself?"
I can understand why your favorite politician would be the "malignant fossil" Marge Tartaglione. She is also a regressive simp who avoids the question.

I just love it when people blame the Jews for anti-Semitism.

And I just love it when someone points out the obvious atrocities, malevolence, and anti-social behavior of Zionist Israel, they get labeled "anti-Semite" by some Jew.
It certainly lends credence to the original post in this thread thread, huh?


It seems to me, UN, that your counsel to the Palestinians is that they should never make peace with the Israelis. How about you come up with some intelligent, imaginative, and useful ideas about how 6,000,000 Jews can make peace with 5,000,000 Palestinians and stop with the shitstorm?

My "counsel to the Palestinians"? You make me laugh David. Would this be like your "counsel to the Israelis"? I don't believe either one of us should presume that we can solve a conflict that has been going on for thousands of years.
I do however believe that religion is the root cause of this animosity and it will come down to what happens to the Dome of the Rock and the Western Wall. This little 7 acre plot of meaningless dirt will be the one item that will ensure this conflict never ends. I say flatten the entire 7 acres and put up a building filled with public bathrooms so people can relieve themselves while visiting the "Holy" land. It seems appropriate.

[Islam Rocks!]

You're not indulging me, IR. After all, you were the one to describe Zionism as a political movement. I only asked you what you meant by the term. And now I know: you have no understanding of Zionism at all. Before indulging your fantasies further, I'd recommend that you at least read what Herzl had to say about it. Der Judenstaat, after all, isn't a long book. You can read a translation at the Jewish Virtual Library site.

Zionism's objective was and is to assure Jews of sanctuary from oppression. Herzl didn't found the movement to form a country, but to save Jewish lives from European and Russian anti-Semitism. Having a Jewish country out from under the sufferance of those who despised the Jews was only a means for this goal's realization. Any means would have sufficed, but it was Herzl's conclusion in the light of resurgent anti-Semitism that he saw in France and the Czar's pogroms against the Jews in the Pale of Settlement that nothing else would assure their safety.

David SegalEverything I needed to know about the Jews and Zionism, and their relationship with gentiles, was in the documentary movie "The Hebrew Hammer". :)

[David Lyle Segal]

Everything I needed to know about the Jews and Zionism, and their relationship with gentiles, was in the documentary movie "The Hebrew Hammer". :)

It figures. Real study is obviously beyond you. Do your lips really get too tired when you try to read actual historical analysis, rather than rely on Hollywood comedies?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

It figures. Real study is obviously beyond you. Do your lips really get too tired when you try to read actual historical analysis, rather than rely on Hollywood comedies?

David SegalDude chill out!
Did you over look the smiley face at the end of my post?
I sarcastically called it a documentary.
Rent it. I think you will get a kick out of it.
If you can loosen up a bit.

[Americanadian]

O’Malley Hugs Olmert, While USS Liberty Is Forgotten
William Hughes


“Time’s glory is...to wrong the wronger, till he render right.” - William Shakespeare, the Bard of Avon

On Nov. 27, 2007, an ultra-hyped, one-day Mideast parley was held in Annapolis, MD, the capital of the state. This is also where the U.S. Naval Academy is located. The idea that the hawkish Bush-Cheney Gang is going to successfully broker an Israel/Palestine peace is absurd. In a show-off-like gesture Maryland’s Governor, Martin O’Malley invited Israel’s Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, for lunch on that day. But, he deliberately chose to exclude the President of the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas. The luncheon took place in the Governor’s Mansion. O’Malley, instead of acting like a statesman, came off as a lackey for the Israel Lobby, while also embarrassing many Marylanders.

James J. Zogby was right to take strong exception to Gov. O’Malley’s boorish conduct. He said: “This was a perfect time to build that tie [with the Palestinian community] and to send a message to both parties that the governor is committed to peace. In diplomacy, everything matters, so if you’re invited to someone’s state and you’re there to make peace with someone and the person you’re making peace with isn’t invited, it sends a message, and that message is one of slight.” (1) Mr. Zogby, an activist, is the President of the Arab American Institute.

This isn’t the first occasion that Gov. O’Malley’s sucking up to the Israel Lobby has caused Marylanders to cringe. Last summer, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) invaded Lebanon, with little justification, and began bombing the country back to the Stone Age. They dropped over 1,000,000 cluster bombs there. During this bloodstained campaign, the IDF specifically targeted the village of Qana (Cana) for attack and reportedly killed 28 civilians, mostly women and children. (2) This is the site where, according to the Holy Bible, Jesus performed his first miracle. So how did Gov. O’Malley, a wannabe diplomat, respond to the IDF’s invasion? Well, he showed up at a pro-Olmert, pro-Israel rally, which was held in Baltimore, to loudly cheerlead for the rampaging Zionist hordes. Since then, both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have charged Olmert’s Israel with “War Crimes” for its alleged barbarous conduct in Lebanon. (3)

On Nov. 27th, I was in Annapolis covering the demonstration, at the Naval Academy, near Gate 1. I was upset that Olmert was even in the city. If it were up to me, he would have never been permitted to step foot in America. His regime’s egregious wrongdoings in Lebanon, and also Israel’s abysmal treatment of the Palestinian people for over four decades of human rights abuses, are just two reasons why. Israeli-Occupied Gaza is a hell on earth for its residents. (4) When its 1.4 million citizens were being besieged daily by lethal missile strikes from the IDF, Olmert’s limp defense was: “Nobody dies from being uncomfortable!”

Then, for me, there is the matter of Annapolis itself. My first memory of this picturesque port city goes back to just after WWII. Sitting on the Severn River, it is steeped in the history of the Republic. It was in the State House, located across the street from the Governor’s Mansion, where General George Washington, the hero of the War for Independence, resigned his commission, on Dec. 23, 1783, as the leader of the Continental Army. For a short period, Annapolis was even the capital of the United States.

Getting back to the protest action, I was pleased to see Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, of Neturei Karta International, there. He is a fearless opponent of the ideology of Zionism. (5) All of this, brings me to the issue of the IDF, its murderous attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, and the ongoing 40 years-plus struggle for justice by the survivors of that vessel, and their supporters. (6)

On June 8, 1967, 34 Americans on the USS Liberty were slaughtered by the IDF, including one Marylander, William B. Allenbaugh, (CT-3, U.S. Navy). Two of its slain crew members, Lt. Commander Philip McCutcheson Armstrong, Jr. and Lt. Stephen Spencer Toth, were graduates of the U.S. Naval Academy. The Zionist Propaganda Machine has insisted the attack, which took place in international waters, was “an accident.” This is the same dubious excuse used to justify the IDF using a 60-ton bulldozer to run over and kill peace activist Rachel Corrie, at Rafah, Occupied Palestine, on March 16, 2003. She was a resident of Olympia, WA, who was trying to stop a Palestinian home from being destroyed by the IDF. Ms. Corrie was only 23 years old. The Israeli bulldozer, all 60 tons of it, ran over her not once--but twice! (7)

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/12/03/p21599#more21599

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/pastnews.php?s=uss+liberty&sentence=AND&submit=Search

There will be a special place in hell reserved for traitors. I hope every single American politician who betrayed their country burns a little hotter than the rest. Not to be superceded by Zionst war criminals of course. ;)

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> Sigh. As my favorite politician, Marge Tartaglione likes to ask, "Are you done yet? Did you remember to wipe yourself?"

UN> I can understand why your favorite politician would be the "malignant fossil" Marge Tartaglione. She is also a regressive simp who avoids the question.

She said it in the same context as I did: when confronted by nothing more than a mindless rant.

DLS> I just love it when people blame the Jews for anti-Semitism.

UN> And I just love it when someone points out the obvious atrocities, malevolence, and anti-social behavior of Zionist Israel, they get labeled "anti-Semite" by some Jew. It certainly lends credence to the original post in this thread thread, huh?

Is there some particular event that you are referring to, or are you still just ranting?

DLS> It seems to me, UN, that your counsel to the Palestinians is that they should never make peace with the Israelis. How about you come up with some intelligent, imaginative, and useful ideas about how 6,000,000 Jews can make peace with 5,000,000 Palestinians and stop with the shitstorm?

UN> My "counsel to the Palestinians"? You make me laugh David. Would this be like your "counsel to the Israelis"? I don't believe either one of us should presume that we can solve a conflict that has been going on for thousands of years. I do however believe that religion is the root cause of this animosity and it will come down to what happens to the Dome of the Rock and the Western Wall. This little 7 acre plot of meaningless dirt will be the one item that will ensure this conflict never ends. I say flatten the entire 7 acres and put up a building filled with public bathrooms so people can relieve themselves while visiting the "Holy" land. It seems appropriate.

Sigh.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Dude chill out!
Did you over look the smiley face at the end of my post?
I sarcastically called it a documentary.
Rent it. I think you will get a kick out of it.
If you can loosen up a bit.

I can't say that your attempts at humor have any potential to lower my temperatures. I don't see anything funny in people who keep score on the basis of how many Zionists 'bite the dust' or who spread ugly images of Jews on the internet for their amusement or who warn Jews to watch out when 'white' folks figure out what they're doing. I see only juvenile thoughtlessness.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I can't say that your attempts at humor have any potential to lower my temperatures. I don't see anything funny in people who keep score on the basis of how many Zionists 'bite the dust' or who spread ugly images of Jews on the internet for their amusement or who warn Jews to watch out when 'white' folks figure out what they're doing. I see only juvenile thoughtlessness.

David SegalMan you are like the rest of your Zionist cabal. Stuck in an endless loop of accusations, lies, and misinformation. All the while trying to play the part of the victim.

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS> I can't say that your attempts at humor have any potential to lower my temperatures. I don't see anything funny in people who keep score on the basis of how many Zionists 'bite the dust' or who spread ugly images of Jews on the internet for their amusement or who warn Jews to watch out when 'white' folks figure out what they're doing. I see only juvenile thoughtlessness.

IR> Man you are like the rest of your Zionist cabal. Stuck in an endless loop of accusations, lies, and misinformation. All the while trying to play the part of the victim.

Now here is a perfect example of how you and I approach correspondence, IR. I cited three examples from your prior postings in support of my argument; you cited no evidence at all. Your readers are left to rely on your personal judgment, not the facts. There's an old saying among lawyers:

If the law's agin' ya, pound the facts.
If the facts are agin' ya, pound the law.
And if the facts and the law are agin' ya, pound the table.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Now here is a perfect example of how you and I approach correspondence, IR. I cited three examples from your prior postings in support of my argument; you cited no evidence at all. Your readers are left to rely on your personal judgment, not the facts. There's an old saying among lawyers:

If the law's agin' ya, pound the facts.
If the facts are agin' ya, pound the law.
And if the facts and the law are agin' ya, pound the table.

David SegalPlease oh Please don't tell me that you are a lawyer!

That is the lowest profession on the face of the planet.

I have more respect for the worlds oldest profession than lawyers.

But I did like the saying you posted.

[David Lyle Segal]

Please oh Please don't tell me that you are a lawyer!
That is the lowest profession on the face of the planet. I have more respect for the worlds oldest profession than lawyers. But I did like the saying you posted.

Not only am I lawyer, but a Jew lawyer, IR. Not only a Jew lawyer, but a Philadelphia Jew lawyer.

I'm your perfect storm, IR. Your respect means nothing to me, just as I'm sure it means nothing to any others of your acquaintance. You'd better start learning to count your worry beads after we talk. By the time we're done, you won't have even one that you can call your own, just the worries.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

But I did like the saying you posted.

Learn from it. I have both the facts and the law on my side. All you have is table pounding on yours. If you're going to come to a gunfight, don't rely on your knife.

David Segal

[UserName]

Learn from it. I have both the facts and the law on my side. All you have is table pounding on yours. If you're going to come to a gunfight, don't rely on your knife.

David Segal

Judging from your uninformed diatribe David, you must be a lousy lawyer.:lmao2:

A man went to a brain store to get some brain to complete a study. He sees a sign remarking on the quality of professional brain offerred at this particular brain store. He begins to question the butcher about the cost of these brains.

"How much does it cost for engineer brain?"

"Three dollars an ounce."

"How much does it cost for programmer brain?"

"Four dollars an ounce."

"How much for lawyer brain?"

"$1,000 an ounce."

"Why is lawyer brain so much more?"

"Do you know how many lawyers we had to kill to get one ounce of brain?"

[Islam Rocks!]

Not only am I lawyer, but a Jew lawyer, IR. Not only a Jew lawyer, but a Philadelphia Jew lawyer.

I'm your perfect storm, IR. Your respect means nothing to me, just as I'm sure it means nothing to any others of your acquaintance. You'd better start learning to count your worry beads after we talk. By the time we're done, you won't have even one that you can call your own, just the worries.

David SegalI don't use the so called "worry beads" (misbaha).

Although I am Sunni Muslim, and many Sunnis count the beads for prayer. (33 beads X three rotations = the 99 names of Allah).

The school of Islam that I subscribe to is Wahabbi. We don't believe that the use of the beads were authorized by the Prophet, so we don't use them.

Actually , I don't worry at all. Everthing is in the hands of Allah. What ever He decides is my fate. So why should I worry about anything?

Sorry to hear that you have chosen a profession that feeds on the moral failings of people. Oh well, I am sure that you are good at it. But you have to admitt that being a Philly Jewish lawyer does have a certain stigma and stereotype attached to it.

[David Lyle Segal]

But you have to admitt that being a Philly Jewish lawyer does have a certain stigma and stereotype attached to it.

Yes, that impression is common among the ignorant and mean-spirited. If you are actually interested in learning about the "Philadelphia Lawyer", look up Andrew Hamilton on the web. Every year, the bar association celebrates this icon of the legal arts.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

The school of Islam that I subscribe to is Wahabbi.

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone else spell it "Wahhabi"?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone else spell it "Wahhabi"?

David SegalGoogle it and you will see it spelled both ways.

Either way it is still just a transliterated spelling.

[Islam Rocks!]

Yes, that impression is common among the ignorant and mean-spirited. If you are actually interested in learning about the "Philadelphia Lawyer", look up Andrew Hamilton on the web. Every year, the bar association celebrates this icon of the legal arts.

David SegalThanks for the history lesson about Andrew Hamilton. I never knew that. What year did you win the award?

Unfortunatly, "Philadelipha Lawyer" mainly has pejorative connotations today.

[David Lyle Segal]

Thanks for the history lesson about Andrew Hamilton. I never knew that.

Stick around, kid, and you just might learn a thing or two. <g>

Unfortunatly, "Philadelipha Lawyer" mainly has pejorative connotations today.

Which tells more about those who misuse the term than it does about the subject, eh?

David Segal

[mwillman]

So many people hate lawyers that is until they need one.

Lawyers perform a very important job in our society and hating them is just one more example of ignorant bigotry.

Sure there are crooked lawyers but then there are crooked everything in this nation if you look hard enough.

People blame lawyers when its often stupid cops that create the problems.

People blame lawyers when its often crooked corporations that are to blame.

Now I'm not saying lawyers are angels but then they are not devils either. They are Human Beings doing a very important job in our nation.

IS the judicial system perfect, No but then what human institution is?
What alternative do any of you offer?

[Islam Rocks!]

Stick around, kid, and you just might learn a thing or two. <g>



Which tells more about those who misuse the term than it does about the subject, eh?

David SegalJust because you know an arcane piece of trivia dosen't make you some kind of knowledge guru.

[David Lyle Segal]

Just because you know an arcane piece of trivia dosen't make you some kind of knowledge guru.

I don't claim guru-ship, just knowledge about those subjects of which I actually do have knowledge. I don't generally use words where I am unfamiliar with their meanings. You should try it sometime.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I don't claim guru-ship, just knowledge about those subjects of which I actually do have knowledge. I don't generally use words where I am unfamiliar with their meanings. You should try it sometime.

David SegalSurely I havn't used any words that you don't know the meaning of ?

[David Lyle Segal]

Surely I havn't used any words that you don't know the meaning of ?

I wouldn't go so far, but at least I knew the meaning of some words you used that you didn't know the meaning of. For example, you used an erroneous meaning for the term, Philadelphia Lawyer. I did nothing more than try to help you out of your confusion. I don't know why you're taking offense; none was intended, certainly not at the level that you originally chose to use the word in regard to me.

Let me give you a real-life example of a great Philadelphia lawyer of my personal acquaintance. From the 13th Century until the mid-1970s, the law of Pennsylvania included the Statute of Mortmain, a Common Law rule that invalidated all charitable bequests in wills written less than thirty days before the testator's death. The original rule was adopted in England to keep priests from promising salvation to the sick in return for turning their worldly goods over to the Church.

This lawyer I am speaking of took in a will which had as one of its provisions a $25,000 bequest to the Ku Klux Klan (honest!). At the time (the late 1940s), the Klan was active even in the Philadelphia area. He called the well-known head of the local Klan Klavern (chapter) and advised him that he had taken in such a will, but advised that the Klan's ability to collect the bequest 'turned on' whether or not the Klan was a charity.

The Grand Dragon (I think that that is the title of the Klavern's leader) was quick to respond that, indeed, the Klan was famous for its charitable works and shortly thereafter sent the lawyer all the documentation he could muster to prove how the Klan was, indeed, a worthy and well-regarded charity.

And as a result, the bequest to the Klan was happily stricken from the will by the Court.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I wouldn't go so far, but at least I knew the meaning of some words you used that you didn't know the meaning of. For example, you used an erroneous meaning for the term, Philadelphia Lawyer. I did nothing more than try to help you out of your confusion. I don't know why you're taking offense; none was intended, certainly not at the level that you originally chose to use the word in regard to me.

David SegalWhere I grew up the term Philadelphia Lawyer was used when refering to a slick, cheating, underhanded, attorney. Or a situaton in which a person was being conned out of something by a clever unscruplous businessman. ie "cheated you like a Philadelphia lawyer"

[David Lyle Segal]

Where I grew up the term Philadelphia Lawyer was used when refering to a slick, cheating, underhanded, attorney. Or a situaton in which a person was being conned out of something by a clever unscruplous businessman. ie "cheated you like a Philadelphia lawyer"

Well I wouldn't be proud of your upbringing, then. Sounds like you were the one who was cheated. Philadelphia lawyers are probably no more or less honest than lawyers anywhere, but the tradition of knowledge of the law is strong here.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Well I wouldn't be proud of your upbringing, then. Sounds like you were the one who was cheated. Philadelphia lawyers are probably no more or less honest than lawyers anywhere, but the tradition of knowledge of the law is strong here.

David SegalLet me get this straight. In order to have had a good childhood. A person must have been taught the true meaning of what the term Philadelipha Lawyer is about. That's kind of a stretch don't you think!

Well then this will blow your mind. I don't believe that the Holocaust happened exactly as advertized by the Zionist.

Yes, Jews were imprisoned in concentration camps. But the number of dead was far, far, less than the estimated 6 million.

Man oh man, I must have had a terrible childhood to not believe in the Holocaust, judging by your standards!!

[mwillman]

Yes I would say you must have,

At best you were just miseducated to believe anything anti jewish becuase of the hate of your fore fathers as well as many other ignorant fairy tales. At worst you were not only taught them but you took them to heart and now you propogate more of the same hate and ignorance that your fore fathers did.

My fore fathers did many horrid things to but I don't celebrate them for it like you do.

[Islam Rocks!]

Yes I would say you must have,

At best you were just miseducated to believe anything anti jewish becuase of the hate of your fore fathers as well as many other ignorant fairy tales. At worst you were not only taught them but you took them to heart and now you propogate more of the same hate and ignorance that your fore fathers did.

My fore fathers did many horrid things to but I don't celebrate them for it like you do.
I do not hate the Jews. But I am against the Zionists.

I have no idea what you are talking about in the rest of your post.

[David Lyle Segal]

Well then this will blow your mind. I don't believe that the Holocaust happened exactly as advertized by the Zionist.

No, I can't say it surprises me at all.

Yes, Jews were imprisoned in concentration camps. But the number of dead was far, far, less than the estimated 6 million.

By now, I really don't care what fantasies you carry around in your mind. If you want to debate the question, please go ahead, but don't try to impress me with your own array of beliefs as a source of authority for anything when it comes to the Jews.

According to the Wiesenthal Center, http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394667


1. The 6 million figure can be demonstrated by comparing Europe's Jewish population before and after the war. Even after making allowances for those who fled Europe and others who could be expected to die due to natural causes, there are nearly 6,000,000 people who cannot be accounted for.
2. Authentic German documents confirm the slaughter of Jews in the millions. The famous "Korherr Report,"(named after Richard Korherr, chief statistician for the SS) puts the number of Jewish losses at more than 2,454,000 by the end of 1942 alone. The war in Europe would not end until May, 1945.
3. The Anglo-American Commission of Enquiry, meeting in April 1946, put the total Jewish Holocaust losses at 5,721,500. On the basis of wartime statistical reports on ghettos, concentration camps and mass murder operations carried out by the Nazis, historian and international jurist, Jacob Robinson, arrived at a figure of 5,820,960. German historian, Helmut Krausnick, put the number of Jewish losses nearer to seven million. While the exact figure will never be known, scholars of the Holocaust find the rounded-off figure of six million to be in line with all the evidence.

I've attached a country-by-country listing of the slaughter for your convenience. There are several useful sites that you can visit to learn more about a subject on which you are obviously entirely clueless, such as yadvashem.org and ushmm.org. Or does doing at least the minimum of fact-checking before mouthing off with an opinion somehow violate the teachings of al-Wahhab?

Your turn, IR. Give your best.


David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

I do not hate the Jews. But I am against the Zionists.

Sure, IR. And the Holocaust is nothing more than a Zionist bubbameiser.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure, IR. And the Holocaust is nothing more than a Zionist bubbameiser.

David SegalWhat the heck is a bubbameiser? Is it yiddish?

Thanks for the Holocaust links

[David Lyle Segal]

What the heck is a bubbameiser? Is it yiddish?

Thanks for the Holocaust links

1. Bubbameiser is Yiddish for "grandmother's tales" (you could have looked this up yourself by googling the term).

2. Have you reconsidered your views on the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

It's kind of hard to believe the Wiesenthal Center. After all, they have a vested interest in keeping the 6 million myth alive.

The Ahmadinejad Center has more realistic figures.

[mwillman]

Your funny Islam,

We are supposed to believe that a Anti jewish center is going to tell the unvarnished truth about what happoened to the jews.

Why dont you just point us to the hitler love organization.

[Islam Rocks!]

Your funny Islam,

We are supposed to believe that a Anti jewish center is going to tell the unvarnished truth about what happoened to the jews.

Why dont you just point us to the hitler love organization.Ahmadinejad is a friend of the Jews.

He is just against the brutal and fascist Zionists who rule Israel.

Do you realize that after Israel. Iran has more Jews living in it's country than any other in the middle east?

[mwillman]

Yea thats right hes the friend of the jews that give up Isreal and accept perpetual second class citizenry.

They are fine as long as he can control them right?

When he stops saying he wants the complete destruction of Isreal I will believe that he is the friend of the jew.

[Islam Rocks!]

Yea thats right hes the friend of the jews that give up Isreal and accept perpetual second class citizenry.

They are fine as long as he can control them right?

When he stops saying he wants the complete destruction of Isreal I will believe that he is the friend of the jew.You really don't know what you are talking about.

The Jews in Iran are full citizens will the same rights as any other Iranian.

[mwillman]

Yes and they even have one vote in thier congress(what ever they call it) right?

Give me a break,

Do you or do you not want the complete destruction of Isreal?

[Islam Rocks!]

Yes and they even have one vote in thier congress(what ever they call it) right?

Give me a break,

Do you or do you not want the complete destruction of Isreal?Destroy it? No

I want the stolen land occupied by the Zionists returned back to the Palestinian people.

[mwillman]

So you want to see the state of Isreal destroyed?

Thats all you need to say. I now know that you are the enemy of the jewish state and as such everything you say about it is not to be trusted or respected.

Your just another War mongering sociopath.

[Islam Rocks!]

Just because I want something that was stolen returned to it's rightfull owner.

That makes me a war mongering sociopath?

Kind of a stretch ain't it.

[mwillman]

No becuase if that was the case you would be helping the American Indians or The Anglo Saxons, Dam those normans.

No its only Isreal that you have a problem with and that tells me you hate jews. And since you hate jews and want to destroy thier country you are a war mongering pig.

So as you see no stretch at all.

P.S. hell by your logic the whole place should go back to greece.

[Islam Rocks!]

Once again, I don't hate the Jews.

But the Zionist rulers are another story.

Greece is ancient history. Way too late.

But the Palistinian situation is current and something can be done about it now.

[mwillman]

We can spend all day making arguments about the legitamacy of Isreal but in the end you loss. Isreal exists and will continue to.

In a hundred years the never has existed country of palistine will either be a neighbor of Isreal or it wont exist at all its the Palistinians choice.

[mwillman]

Let me make one correction

Its the Arabs choice since Palistine hasnt existed since Roman times.

[Islam Rocks!]

We can spend all day making arguments about the legitamacy of Isreal but in the end you loss. Isreal exists and will continue to.

In a hundred years the never has existed country of palistine will either be a neighbor of Isreal or it wont exist at all its the Palistinians choice.No you will lose in the end mwilliam.

Good always eventually defeats evil.

The Zionists and Israel will just be a minor footnote in the history books.

[mwillman]

Yes and now its back to this good and evil thing right. Its always the same with you dinosaurs.

Well you know what I say you and yours are the evil ones you use the fantasy of an after life to get people to kill themselves for your desires.

You treat women like objects rather then as trully equal members of the human race.

No if there is a god she is not on your side. Just look at how many times you have already gotten your asses kicked by that little nation and you think that its going to change any time soon.

Oh and Dont even think that a nuke will help you becuase if any middle eastern nation ever uses a nuke I am sure that the powers that be will turn them into a glass parking lot.

[David Lyle Segal]

It's kind of hard to believe the Wiesenthal Center. After all, they have a vested interest in keeping the 6 million myth alive. The Ahmadinejad Center has more realistic figures.

That's funny, IR. Simon Weisenthal, himself a survivor of the death camps, is thereby disqualified from researching the Holocaust, while the non-existent "Ahmadinejad Center" has (by definition, since there is no such organization, except in your imagination) non-existent figures, which they (by definition) haven't researched at all. I can't say that that path to your fascinating conclusion is inconsistent with your own approach to the real world, IR.

According to Clyde Farnsworth in the New York Times Magazine (February 2, 1964), Wiesenthal once spent the Sabbath at the home of a former Mauthausen inmate, now a well-to-do jewelry manufacturer. After dinner his host said, "Simon, if you had gone back to building houses, you'd be a millionaire. Why didn't you?" "You're a religious man," replied Wiesenthal. "You believe in God and life after death. I also believe. When we come to the other world and meet the millions of Jews who died in the camps and they ask us, 'What have you done?', there will be many answers. You will say, 'I became a jeweler', Another will say, I have smuggled coffee and American cigarettes', Another will say, 'I built houses', But I will say, 'I didn't forget you.'"
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Wiesenthal.html

That, IR, was his motive. Wiesenthal didn't need Zionism at all to hunt down those who set out to see every last Jew dead.

Apparently, you did nothing with the web-site citations you thanked me for, since you make no mention of even having visited them, except to see if there was a Jew in them. Hell, you don't even know if Simon Wiesenthal is a Zionist (Hint: he died in his home in Austria; the Wisenthal Center is located in Los Angeles).

David Segal