Typical day in the life of an American Jew

[David Lyle Segal]

Ahmadinejad is a friend of the Jews. He is just against the brutal and fascist Zionists who rule Israel. Do you realize that after Israel. Iran has more Jews living in it's country than any other in the middle east?

I love it! Iran, which had 100,000 Jews living there in 1948 and today has 25,000 is a virtual oasis to which all Jews should flock. I mean, we're all grateful to Cyrus and all, but what has he done for us lately?

FYI, while Iran was historically certainly not so anti-Semitic as, say, Iraq, 30,000 of her Jews left for Israel in 1979 after the Ayatollah Khomenei took power. More moved to the United States.

Other religions have somehow come to the same conclusion as the Jews about the Islamic Republic:

1. Virtually all of the Baha'i left, and the leaders of their religion moved their world headquarters to -- are you ready for this, IR? -- Haifa.

2. Other religious minorities have likewise fled the tender mercies of Shi'a Iran, once the ayatollahs took possession.

3. I doubt that any Sunnis -- including Wahhabis --were very comfortable in Iran during the war with Iraq.

[Iran] cannot be compared even with the Zionist state. Tehran is the only capital which does not have a single Sunni mosque. For 40 years ago, we have been conducting Friday prayers at a Pakistani school, and even that has been shut down. ... In all the cities with a Shiite majority these prayers are prevented, and there isn't a single Sunni mosque. In the Sunni areas, such as Kurdistan, Balochistan, and Turkmensahra, there are mosques and religious schools, which we built in the days of the Shah and even earlier. These are schools and mosques that we have inherited, and now, they are under great pressure. Dozens of Sunni clerics have been assassinated.
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1591.htm





David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

I want the stolen land occupied by the Zionists returned back to the Palestinian people.

Who cares what you want, IR? You can't tell who owns what land in the first place. What land do the Palestinians want (we can get into whether or not they're legally entitled to it later; let's just stick with their wishlist for now)?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

I love it! Iran, which had 100,000 Jews living there in 1948 and today has 25,000 is a virtual oasis to which all Jews should flock. I mean, we're all grateful to Cyrus and all, but what has he done for us lately?

FYI, while Iran was historically certainly not so anti-Semitic as, say, Iraq, 30,000 of her Jews left for Israel in 1979 after the Ayatollah Khomenei took power. More moved to the United States.

Other religions have somehow come to the same conclusion as the Jews about the Islamic Republic:

1. Virtually all of the Baha'i left, and the leaders of their religion moved their world headquarters to -- are you ready for this, IR? -- Haifa.

2. Other religious minorities have likewise fled the tender mercies of Shi'a Iran, once the ayatollahs took possession.

3. I doubt that any Sunnis -- including Wahhabis --were very comfortable in Iran during the war with Iraq.

[Iran] cannot be compared even with the Zionist state. Tehran is the only capital which does not have a single Sunni mosque. For 40 years ago, we have been conducting Friday prayers at a Pakistani school, and even that has been shut down. ... In all the cities with a Shiite majority these prayers are prevented, and there isn't a single Sunni mosque. In the Sunni areas, such as Kurdistan, Balochistan, and Turkmensahra, there are mosques and religious schools, which we built in the days of the Shah and even earlier. These are schools and mosques that we have inherited, and now, they are under great pressure. Dozens of Sunni clerics have been assassinated.
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1591.htm





David SegalLike I said, Iran has a thriving Jewish community and the Jews there have full rights under Iranian law.

The Baha'i are heretic's that have No business living in an Islamic country.

True the orthodox Sunni's and the Shias don't get along. The Shia's are Muslims, but have mixed many cult practices into their version of Islam.

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> The Baha'i are heretic's that have No business living in an Islamic country.

I was unaware that the Baha'i were thought of as heretics, IR. All of the ones I have met over the years have been soft-spoken, friendly, honestly curious about others without being judgmental. None of them ever seemed interested in exposing me to their religious beliefs, much less interested in converting anyone. In a word, they always appeared to be harmless, not dangerous.

Since there are about 6 million Baha'i followers, I don't see how their religious beliefs could be properly called heretical. There are enough of them to constitute a full-fledged religion in their own right. According to Wikipedia, they're respectful of the prophets of the other monotheistic religions, including Mohammed. Their prophet was named Bahá'u'lláh.

I see alot of common ground between the Baha'i and the Jews. For example, they don't deny non-members entry into the world to come, so long as they adhere to certain universal principles. They are hardly fans of jihad; they predict a world of peace and justice without the need to go to war to gain either. After they were kicked out of Iran, they established their world headquarters in Israel; the campus is a real beauty to behold. I guess Iran's loss is Israel's gain, eh?

Every human is seen to have a duty to recognize God through his messengers, and to conform to their teachings. Through recognition and obedience, service to humanity and regular prayer and spiritual practice, the Bahá'í writings state that the soul becomes closer to God, the spiritual ideal in Bahá'í belief. When a human dies, the soul passes into the next world, where its spiritual development in the physical world becomes a basis for judgment and advancement in the spiritual world. Heaven and Hell are taught to be spiritual states of nearness or distance from God that describe relationships in this world and the next, and not physical places of reward and punishment achieved after death. The Bahá'í writings emphasize the essential equality of human beings, and the abolition of prejudice. Humanity is seen as essentially one, though highly varied; its diversity of race and culture are seen as worthy of appreciation and tolerance. Doctrines of racism, nationalism, caste and social class are seen as artificial impediments to unity. The Bahá'í teachings state that the unification of mankind is the paramount issue in the religious and political conditions of the present world.


Aren't these principles similar to Islam? It sure doesn't sound like heresy to me. I, for one, wish all Muslims were so open-minded and understanding of others.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

The Baha'i religion is a cult offshoot of Shia Islam. The founder of the religion is a character self refered to as the "Bab". He claimed to be the next prophet after Muhammad to come upon the world scene.

Muhammad in Islam is the last prophet that will be on the earth. And is refered to as the "Seal of the Prophets".

The Baha'i religion is considered heretical by both Sunni and Shia.

Allowing the cult Baha'i to have headquaters in the Holy Land is a slap in the face of G-d.

But the secular Zionists don't care and allow a ungodly cult to exist in Israel.

[mwillman]

Whos G-d?

Many Christians feel the same way about Muslims you know. to them Christ is the son of God and any prophet after him is a heretic.

Since we are all heretics to each other the only solution is mass extermination right?

[Islam Rocks!]

Whos G-d?

Many Christians feel the same way about Muslims you know. to them Christ is the son of God and any prophet after him is a heretic.

Since we are all heretics to each other the only solution is mass extermination right?Orthodox Jews write the word G-d in this fashion. His name is too Holy to be spoken outloud or written down. So by writting it this way you are not violatining the prohibition.

[David Lyle Segal]

The Baha'i religion is a cult offshoot of Shia Islam. The founder of the religion is a character self refered to as the "Bab". He claimed to be the next prophet after Muhammad to come upon the world scene.

Muhammad in Islam is the last prophet that will be on the earth. And is refered to as the "Seal of the Prophets".

The Baha'i religion is considered heretical by both Sunni and Shia.

Allowing the cult Baha'i to have headquaters in the Holy Land is a slap in the face of G-d.

But the secular Zionists don't care and allow a ungodly cult to exist in Israel.

I'm surprised to hear such intolerance from you, IR. We have Jews who don't believe in the laws requiring us to eat only kosher foods (they even eat pork), who drive their cars on the Sabbath, and lots of other variations, yet they're still Jews. We certainly wouldn't drive them out of Israel as heretics. What's so important about Muhammad being the last prophet, anyhow, that you'd speak with such hatred?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Like I said, Iran has a thriving Jewish community and the Jews there have full rights under Iranian law.

I really don't understand your judgment, IR. A Jewish community that shrank from 100,000 to 80,000 between the establishment of Israel and 1979 doesn't see very 'vibrant'. And one that dwindled down to 40,000 after the advent of the Ayatollahs in 1979 seems to me to be downright no more than a remnant. The quotes I find from Iranian Jews about how great it is to live there sounds suspiciously like the complaints of the few Arab Christians who remain in Bethlehem. 'Thriving' connotes growth to me; a 60% depletion sure ain't growth.

IR> The Baha'i are heretic's that have No business living in an Islamic country..

What makes the Jews more acceptable than Baha'i in the Iranian 'Islamic country'?

IR> True the orthodox Sunni's and the Shias don't get along. The Shia's are Muslims, but have mixed many cult practices into their version of Islam.

I take from this that you consider Shi'a as heretics, too? If not, how do they differ from the Baha'i?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> Allowing the cult Baha'i to have headquaters in the Holy Land is a slap in the face of G-d.

You raise a wonderful question, IR: Who is the more acceptable in the Holy Land, a Baha'i or a Wahhabi. I don't know just what you had in mind, but it seems to me that the Holy Land has to have room for more than just one form of worship of G-d. Here is what the two candidates have to say about living with others who believe differently than they:

Baha'i:
All divine Revelations come from the same Source; thus, the religions identified with them are in essence one. They differ in the measure of their teachings and particularly in their social laws and principles, appropriate to the times in which they appeared. The successive divine Revelations over the centuries have provided the spiritual force and laws for the advancement of civilization. Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad were all divine Messengers; the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh are the most recent. The coming of Bahá’u’lláh represents the fulfillment of this centuries’ long process of progressive revelation and of the expectations inspired by previous divine Messengers for the ultimate unity of peoples and peace among nations.

That certainly sounds like the Baha'i are content to live and let live, doesn't it to you?

Then again, there are alot of synagogues, churches, and non-Salafist mosques in the Holy Land (in fact, I'm unaware of any Wahhabi mosques there). What's to happen to them if the Salafists take over?

Wahhabi:
Whoever believes that churches are houses of God and that God is worshipped therein, or that what Jews and Christians do constitutes the worship of God and obedience to Him and His Prophet, or that God likes such practices and approves of them; and whoever assists them to keep their churches open and to establish their religion, and does so out of a feeling of kinship or out of a sense of obedience—whoever does all these things is an infidel.

[Never] rely on [non-believers] for support, do not admire them, and always oppose them in every way according to Islamic law. There is consensus on this matter, that whoever helps unbelievers against Muslims, regardless of what type of support he lends to them, he is an unbeliever himself.

Never greet the Christian or Jew first. Never congratulate the infidel on his holiday. Never befriend an infidel unless it is to convert him. Never imitate the infidel. Never work for an infidel. Do not wear a graduation gown because this imitates the infidel.

[I]t is basic Islam to believe that everyone who does not embrace Islam is an unbeliever, and must be called an unbeliever, and that they are enemies to Allah, his Prophet and believers.

Which raises the broader question: Just what is the future that the Wahhabis have in mind for the Holy Land? According to the Saudi 10th Grade text, Science of Tawheed:

Residing among the unbelievers continuously is also forbidden because it is dangerous for the belief of the Muslim. That is why Allah made it obligatory to emigrate from the land of disbelief to the land of Islam.

Do all believers, then, have to leave the Holy Land, or is it their intention to cleanse the Holy Land of the nonbelievers, IR? I guess that the following from a Wahhabi pamphlet gives us the answer:

"The effect of [working for interfaith harmony] ... is that it erases the differences between Islam and disbelief, between truth and falsehood, good and bad, and it breaks the wall of resentment between the Muslims and the unbelievers, so that there is no loyalty and enmity, no more jihad and fighting to raise Allah’s word on earth….”

Nice bunch of folks you hang out with, IR.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> Like I said, Iran has a thriving Jewish community and the Jews there have full rights under Iranian law.
All things are relative, I guess. It's a good thing that Iran isn't Wahhabi, eh?

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

IR> Like I said, Iran has a thriving Jewish community and the Jews there have full rights under Iranian law.

Having learned about your anticipation of my being issued a 'dhimmi card', it's obvious that you don't always use the dictionary definitions of the words you use, IR. Are those "full rights" that you are boasting about for the Jews the same as any dhimmi under Shari'a or are they the same rights as any Iranian Muslim enjoys?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Having learned about your anticipation of my being issued a 'dhimmi card', it's obvious that you don't always use the dictionary definitions of the words you use, IR. Are those "full rights" that you are boasting about for the Jews the same as any dhimmi under Shari'a or are they the same rights as any Iranian Muslim enjoys?

David SegalDhimmi rights are listed under Sharia Law and should be the same whether administered by Sunnis or Shia.

The benefits of the dhimmi legal status will be equally applied to both Christians and Jews in all Islamic lands.

Jews especially will enjoy a life of peace and harmony with all of their fellow man. And will never have to worry about their personal security.

[David Lyle Segal]

Dhimmi rights are listed under Sharia Law and should be the same whether administered by Sunnis or Shia.

The benefits of the dhimmi legal status will be equally applied to both Christians and Jews in all Islamic lands.

Jews especially will enjoy a life of peace and harmony with all of their fellow man. And will never have to worry about their personal security.

Sure, IR. Tell that to the Jews massacred in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Syria and Iraq for nothing more than being thought to share religious beliefs with the godless, socialist Zionists who were fighting in Palestine.

Please also list --in detail, please -- the 'benefits of the dhimmi legal status' that you are promising. I'm sure that everyone here is dying to learn just what awaits them when your 'peace' arrives on the edge of your sword.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Sure, IR. Tell that to the Jews massacred in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Syria and Iraq for nothing more than being thought to share religious beliefs with the godless, socialist Zionists who were fighting in Palestine.

Please also list --in detail, please -- the 'benefits of the dhimmi legal status' that you are promising. I'm sure that everyone here is dying to learn just what awaits them when your 'peace' arrives on the edge of your sword.

David Segal
What massacre are you refering to?

The massacre of Muslim women and children in 1982 in the villages of Sabra and Chatila by the Israel Army?

Or the total massacre of defencless Muslim civilians in Qana, southern Lebanon in 1996 by the Israel Army?

[mwillman]

What are we going to play pick a massacre in the middle east.

Thats like playing pick a grain of sand at the beach.

[David Lyle Segal]

What massacre are you refering to?

The massacre of Muslim women and children in 1982 in the villages of Sabra and Chatila by the Israel Army?

Or the total massacre of defencless Muslim civilians in Qana, southern Lebanon in 1996 by the Israel Army?

1. Not one Israeli soldier participated in the massacre at Chatila and Sabra. That aktion was undertaken by the Christian Falange under the leadership of the late Elie Hobeika, the head of the Lebanese Christian forces, in revenge for the PLO's rampage in Lebanon and the murder of the president, Bashir Gemayel.

2. The Lebanese civilians (and some UN personnel) killed at Qana were in the target area for Israeli counterfire against Hezbollah, who used them as human shields.

3. The massacres I was referring to took place between 1947 and 1956 against Jewish citizens of the Muslim countries I listed:

In 1947, 80 Jews were killed in riots in Aden, Yemen, leading to Operation Magic Carpet, which evacuated 50,000 to Israel. I still support an operation that raises ransom money for Jews still being held in Yemen.

In 1947, the Syrian Arabs of Aleppo burned the Jewish quarter and killed 75 Jews. The Jews left, mostly by escape routes, since the government forbade them to emigrate.

In 1948, riots in Oujda and Djerada, Morocco killed 44 Jews, sending 18,000 more fleeing to Israel and safety.

In 1948, 70 Jews living in Cairo were killed by bombs planted in their neighborhoods. Hundreds more were arrested and had their property confiscated, starting another exodus to Israel.

In 1950, Iraq passed a law allowing Jews to emigrate on giving up their citizenship. So many applied (far more than the Iraqi government expected) that the law was harshened, requiring them to give up their property as well. The law was stiffened further in 1951, making it a crime not to sign a statement of anti-Zionism.

In 1956 (after France gave up colonial control), Tunisia expelled almost all of her Jews, about half of whom went to Israel.

They were killed for the reasons I gave: nothing more than being thought to share religious beliefs with the godless, socialist Zionists (talk about Muslim logic!) who were fighting in Palestine. They offered no offense to their Muslim compatriots. They didn't take up arms against them. They weren't even Zionists (your preferred target), but Jews. And they died because they were Jews; the charge of Zionism had nothing to do with it. They were nothing but a handy target to their neighbor Muslims who were enraged that Jews were fighting and beating Muslims in some other place.

4. Is there some reason that you feel compelled to try to change the subject whenever uncomfortable facts about Muslims are pointed out? If my doubts about your truthfulness are unfounded, you should point out the particular flaws in my statement, not run away from it.

5. There was an other question in the same post that you haven't yet even tried to answer: Please also list --in detail, please -- the 'benefits of the dhimmi legal status' that you are promising and the price we have to pay to receive the boon.

6. Why didn't dhimmi status help the Jews in those Arab countries that I listed? So far, it seems that being a dhimmi is only "good" so long as some Jew somewhere -- anywhere -- doesn't piss off a Muslim.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

1. Not one Israeli soldier participated in the massacre at Chatila and Sabra.

You are right DLS in that No Israeli soilder lifted a hand in the massacre of the defenceless men, women, and children civilians at Chatila and Sabra.

In an area totally under Israeli Army control and surrounded by Israeli Army troops , Christian militiamen were permitted to enter two undefended Palestinian refugee camps leading to a massacre of hundreds to thousands of civilians.

Members of the Israeli Army just stood there and watched the massacre taking place. None of the Israeli Army Officers tried to intervene to stop the slaughter.

Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Defence Minister at the time and major protagonist of the invasion, was found by an Israeli investigation to be personally responsible and forced to resign.

So yes DLS, your disingenuous statement is technically correct.

No Israeli soilder participated in the massacre of Chatila and Sabra.

The Israeli Army just stood by and watched according to whitnesses, as people were raped, throats slit, hit with axes, and lined up and shot. Civilian men, women, children, and babies.

[David Lyle Segal]

You are right DLS in that No Israeli soilder lifted a hand in the massacre of the defenceless men, women, and children civilians at Chatila and Sabra.

In an area totally under Israeli Army control and surrounded by Israeli Army troops , Christian militiamen were permitted to enter two undefended Palestinian refugee camps leading to a massacre of hundreds to thousands of civilians.

Members of the Israeli Army just stood there and watched the massacre taking place. None of the Israeli Army Officers tried to intervene to stop the slaughter.

Ariel Sharon, the Israeli Defence Minister at the time and major protagonist of the invasion, was found by an Israeli investigation to be personally responsible and forced to resign.

So yes DLS, your disingenuous statement is technically correct.

No Israeli soilder participated in the massacre of Chatila and Sabra.

The Israeli Army just stood by and watched according to whitnesses, as people were raped, throats slit, hit with axes, and lined up and shot. Civilian men, women, children, and babies.

Unable to confront your own statements, eh? First you say that Israel massacred the people at Chatila and Sabra, and now you're saying that Israel failed to save them from the Lebanese Falange.

The most that can be said for your needing to reach so far is that it's news when a man bites a dog, but not when a dog bites a man. We could go round and round about the Lebanese civil war with the PLO, IR, but it's just a poor attempt on your part to divert attention again from the subject that is still on the table: the wonderful world of the dhimmi.

I referred to Muslim massacres of Jews under dhimmi protection. You challenged me, and I gave you the list. Is the list correct? Did the massacres and riots happen? Were they justified in any way?

What does that say for the benefits that I can expect when you hand me my dhimmi card? After all, aren't you the one who keeps score based on "how many Zionists bite the dust"?

If you are trying to convince me that life as a dhimmi is something that I should look forward to, you sure haven't offered any evidence.


David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

DLS, I ran across this conversation in a chat room. The two participants are discussing the dhimmi status:


I, as a Muslim, see that the term "dhimmi" enjoys more privileges in the Muslim state than the term "citzien" in the secular states. Then, why we Muslim feel ashamed to explain the privileges of "dhimmis " which far exceeds the privileges of "citizen". Why do Christian's and Jews feel sensitive to such a term that is based on considering their rights and protecting their interests. In more than one hadith, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) asked Muslims to be kind, just, and fair to dhimmis, to the extent that he pointed out that a Muslim who harms a dhimmi is harming the Prophet himself, and Allah Almighty and the Prophet will be angry at any Muslim who infringes upon the rights of a dhimmi.
In short, I think we, Muslims, have to be proud of our Islamic literature and terms that are very accurate and significant, and not to hurry to please the Westerners by saying that "dhimmis" is no more there after the creation of the term "citizenship".
Thanks, wa as-salam

Answer
I fully agree with you. The confusion arises because of the lack of understanding of both the meaning and concept of dhimmah. First, dhimmi comes from dhimmah which literally means covenant. As such the term dhimmi means a covenanted person. The word covenant here means that he or she has the covenant of Allah, His messenger and the Muslim community that their legitimate right shall be safeguarded. It is a more profound and protective concept than citizenship. Minority citizen rights could be marginalized even in free democratic society based on one vote whereas dhimmah means that their rights as stipulated in the primary sources of Islam, the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah, cannot be revoked or diminished even by the majority of society.

Dhimmah does not mean or imply, as some may allege, that the dhimmis are second-class citizens; it is actually greater respect for their identity and religious sentiments. For example, Muslims are required to pay "Zakah", which helps finance needs such as services, defence and social security. All citizens, Muslims and dhimmis, have equal access to such services without discrimination. If the Shari`ah required dhimmis to pay Zakah exactly like their fellow Muslim citizens, it may be insensitive to their religious identity. The reason is that Zakah is not merely a tax, even though it serves the purposes of taxes. Zakah is an Islamic concept and is one of the five pillars of Islam. To ask a dhimmi to pay Zakah implies requiring him to tacitly believe in one of the pillars of Islam that he does not believe in. On the other hand, if he shares the cost of above services under a different and more neutral title, it is even more respectful and the term "jizya" that is used for dhimmis’ share literally comes from jaza’ which means something in return for something, i.e. services, defense and social security in return for financial contribution.

[David Lyle Segal]

DLS, I ran across this conversation in a chat room. The two participants are discussing the dhimmi status:

Blah, blah, blah, IR. No matter how much perfume you dump on it, dhimmitude still smells like the pig it always was. The (ummah) Lord giveth and the (ummah) Lord taketh away:

Today, one finds Islamists in Upper Egypt who kill and pillage Copts, because they argue that these dhimmis have forfeited their 'protection' as they no longer pay the jizya. The Baha'i religion is not protected even today in Iran. In 1994 two Muslims kidnapped and killed a Baha'i. The Islamic court held that as the Baha'is were "unprotected infidels... the issue of retribution is null and void". This means that an infidel has no human rights, unless he is protected by Islamic law. http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/by_lecture_10oct2002.htm

Are you ever going to get around to answering my questions?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Blah, blah, blah, IR. l
I assumed that would be your response to whatever I posted about the wonderful status and protection of being a dhimmi in Islam.

So that's why I didn't spend too much time on explainig the issue in response to your question.

DLS you are just a hardcore Zionist that backs every attrocity, genocide, and murder that Israel committs as a good thing worthy of praise.

DLS you are on the Wrong side of history, and support one of the worst evils ever foisted on mankind. The sick, illegal state of Israel.

Israel is like Satans kingdom.

Me and over 1 billion Muslims can't wait for the day Israel is not listed on any map of the world. There will be gigantic celebrations all over the earth on that glorious day.

I predict that day will become the first world wide holiday!

[David Lyle Segal]

Israel is like Satans kingdom. Me and over 1 billion Muslims can't wait for the day Israel is not listed on any map of the world. There will be gigantic celebrations all over the earth on that glorious day. I predict that day will become the first world wide holiday!

Just a billion, IR? I thought that you had a worthy gang to back you up. As my (Jewish) mother once told me, "You can't ruin a bad reputation". That's sure a relief, since now I know the rules you want to play by.

Your "celebration" will just have to wait until your jihad finally finishes the job that Hajj Amin al-Husseini tried to help Herr Hitler carry out. In the meantime, count on Israel to deal with you according to the terms you, yourself, have set out here.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Fair enough.

I believe that once American citizens wake up and throw off the shackles of the Z.O.G.

The beginning of the end for Israel will start..............................

[David Lyle Segal]

Fair enough.

I believe that once American citizens wake up and throw off the shackles of the Z.O.G.

The beginning of the end for Israel will start..............................

If the Muslims lay down their weapons, the war will end. If Israel lays down her arms, Israel will end. Which is more important to you, IR? An end to war or the end of Israel?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

If the Muslims lay down their weapons, the war will end. If Israel lays down her arms, Israel will end. Which is more important to you, IR? An end to war or the end of Israel?

David SegalNot sure of your logic DLS?

The conflict won't/can't end untill Israel no longer exists.

There is no other option.

[David Lyle Segal]

Not sure of your logic DLS? The conflict won't/can't end untill Israel no longer exists. There is no other option.

"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die," replies Goldfinger.

Those were the terms the Arabs offered the Jews in 1948 and 1967, IR. And they've (you've) been whining about the outcome ever since. I don't think that anyone thinks that your appetite would be satisfied with just Israel. Osama Bin Laden excoriated the Ummah for failing to take back Spain:


"We request of Allah...that the [Islamic] nation should regain its honor and prestige, should raise again the unique flag of Allah on all stolen Islamic land, from Palestine to Andalus."

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

"No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die," replies Goldfinger.

Those were the terms the Arabs offered the Jews in 1948 and 1967, IR. And they've (you've) been whining about the outcome ever since. I don't think that anyone thinks that your appetite would be satisfied with just Israel. Osama Bin Laden excoriated the Ummah for failing to take back Spain:


"We request of Allah...that the [Islamic] nation should regain its honor and prestige, should raise again the unique flag of Allah on all stolen Islamic land, from Palestine to Andalus."

David SegalSo what's your point?

The Jews moaned and cried for a couple of thousand years over wanting the Holy Land back.

The Muslims want Andalus back. It that some kind of crime?

[David Lyle Segal]

The Jews moaned and cried for a couple of thousand years over wanting the Holy Land back.

Your slip is showing, Abdullah. I thought that you were only upset with the Zionists, not the Jews. At least the Jews once owned Israel.

Davdi Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Your slip is showing, Abdullah. I thought that you were only upset with the Zionists, not the Jews. At least the Jews once owned Israel.

Davdi Segal
The Jews weeped and wailed away, but the Zionists made it happen.

By the way it's Dawud

[David Lyle Segal]

The Jews weeped and wailed away, but the Zionists made it happen.

You're right, Dawud. The Zionists restored Israel to the Jews, the rightful owners. What is the Muslims' excuse for weeping and wailing away?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

You're right, Dawud. The Zionists restored Israel to the Jews, the rightful owners. What is the Muslims' excuse for weeping and wailing away?

David SegalWeeping and wailing is a Jewish thing. Playing the holocaust sympathy card for the gulible people of the world.

Muslims on the other hand, are people of action, who will never give up, no matter what the odds. As Israel has found out over the years.

[mwillman]

Islam

You are so funny. The only thing the muslims have done for the past 60 years is get thier asses kicked again and again by a small often out gunned enemy.

This is not about land its about dominance and Isreal will not be dominated.

the sooner everyone realizes there is no choosen people the better off we will all be. The sooner you learn to live with Isreal the sooner everyone will have peace. Its not like its a large section of the middle east and it has almost no oil.

[Islam Rocks!]

Islam

You are so funny. The only thing the muslims have done for the past 60 years is get thier asses kicked again and again by a small often out gunned enemy.

This is not about land its about dominance and Isreal will not be dominated.

the sooner everyone realizes there is no choosen people the better off we will all be. The sooner you learn to live with Isreal the sooner everyone will have peace. Its not like its a large section of the middle east and it has almost no oil.Dosen't matter. It's about the "LAND". and only the LAND!!

If Muslims get beat 100 times. They will come back 101, 102, 103, ................ no matter how many times it takes!!!!!!!!!!!

If theives stole your car, how many times would you try to get it back?

Or would you say, "oh well just let them have it, it was a compact car anyway".

[mwillman]

If a dog continues to slam its head against a wall sooner or later it will kill itself.

All you are accomplishing is pain and suffering for your people. Stop blaming others becuase you wont stop shooting your self in the foot.

[David Lyle Segal]

Dosen't matter. It's about the "LAND". and only the LAND!!

The land belongs to the Jews, IR, not the Muslims. Just as Spain belongs to the Spanish Christians. If the Muslims get it, they'll only be thieves (again). Just because some old sheikh decides that it was once Dar al-Islam means nothing more than a fatwa in the wind.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Weeping and wailing is a Jewish thing.

Funny, but that's not how I remember the Jews beating the Arabs. It took the UN to pull the Arabs' cookies out of the fire. Every time.

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

The land belongs to the Jews
David SegalFor now that's true. But time and history have a way of changing things.

[Islam Rocks!]

Funny, but that's not how I remember the Jews beating the Arabs. It took the UN to pull the Arabs' cookies out of the fire. Every time.

David SegalJust this year the Israeli Army got rescued out of Hezbollah's raging fire in Lebanon by the UN.

Remember!?!?

[David Lyle Segal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Lyle Segal
The land belongs to the Jews

For now that's true. But time and history have a way of changing things.

I see you're still thinking in terms of trial by combat, spoils of war and all that, IR. Wake up to the 20th Century at least, if not to the 21st. The 1948 war put the stake in the heart of Dar al-Islam-style Arab imperialism.

David Segal

[David Lyle Segal]

Just this year the Israeli Army got rescued out of Hezbollah's raging fire in Lebanon by the UN. Remember!?!?

No I don't. Why don't you tell us the details?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

No I don't. Why don't you tell us the details?

David Segal

HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFENDED LEBANON

OLD-STYLE GUERRILLA WARFARE DEFEATED HIGH-TECH INVADERS



By Richard Walker


Now that the dust has settled in bomb-ravaged Lebanon, evidence shows that Israel’s military defeat at the hands of Hezbollah, the militia group in southern Lebanon, was bigger than at first thought and it eroded America’s standing in what the Bush administration calls the Muslim street, as well as in the palaces of America’s few Arab friends.

The most starling facts now coming to light reveal that Hezbollah outmaneuvered Israel’s highly vaunted military strategists, defeated its counter-intelligence planners and built a sophisticated command and control system that proved impervious to a high-tech war. That system allowed Hezbollah’s military leaders to communicate with frontline fighters despite Israel’s carpet bombing huge swathes of Lebanon, a country about the size of Connecticut.

Hezbollah, and not Israel or the Pentagon, learned quite a bit from studying the Vietnam War. Hezbollah leaders deduced that if a guerrilla army can survive heavy bombing, it can emerge to successfully confront ground assaults. That is how Hezbollah played it.

From the outset, the Israelis arrogantly believed it was facing an inferior opponent. They believed they knew where their enemy’s main ammo dumps and command and control systems were located.

Israeli generals presumed that the Israeli air force and its heavily armed unmanned drones could seek and destroy all Hezbollah bunkers in a three-day “shock and awe” blitz. This, they thought, would decapitate the Hezbollah leadership, destroy its weapons dumps and knock out its command systems. As a consequence, Hezbollah fighters would have no means of re-supply and would have to emerge from their foxholes to surrender or be shot.

That, however, proved to be pure military fantasy rooted in Israel’s belief in its own military invincibility. And what Israeli generals did not anticipate was the fact that Hezbollah could beat them at their own game.

In the aftermath of Israel being driven from southern Lebanon in 2000, Hezbollah had been setting the stage for an elaborate ruse that Israeli intelligence and military planners fell right into.

Over the years, Hezbollah had built bunkers to protect fighters when the time came for war. Hezbollah’s leaders knew Israeli satellites could see from space and they knew Israel had agents on the ground who were watching their every move. So what Hezbollah did was to build decoys to fool the Israelis. It was a classic military tactic used by Allied forces during World War II, especially the British who often used decoy tanks or boats to fool the Luftwaffe.

However, while Hezbollah was building the decoys, it secretly constructed the deep, hardened bunkers, many with air-conditioning, to hold their fighters, their command and control centers and massive arsenals of weapons, including missiles.

Mossad, the famed Israeli intelligence agency, is only now beginning to realize that, for years, Hezbollah had also been training highly specialized troops, and frontline fighters who could hit and run, using classic guerrilla tactics against advancing heavy armor and troops.

Like most guerrilla armies, a cell structure was employed, whereby each Hezbollah unit assigned to the front line knew what it had to do and the locations of its own arms dumps. That meant if a fighter was captured he could only divulge a limited amount of information under tough or brutal Israeli interrogation.

The effectiveness of Hezbollah’s high-tech command system shocked U.S. and Israeli military analysts because it operated unhindered throughout the 34-day war. It allowed Hezbollah leaders to provide their front lines with detailed information from informers about Israeli troop movements.

More importantly, it provided the Hezbollah leadership with a picture of the battlefield that led them to conclude that only one brigade of several thousand fighters, known as the Nasr Brigade, was sufficient to handle the large Israeli advance. There was, therefore, no need to commit reinforcements from the organization’s 20,000 reserve force which was intended for use in a long, drawn-out war with Israel.

It has taken until now for Israeli and U.S. military experts to fully comprehend the sheer scale of the Israeli defeat and its implications for both countries.

New figures show that contrary to initial Israeli claims that Hezbollah lost upwards of 500 fighters, the real number of losses totaled somewhere around 200. That is close to the number of Israeli military dead—a reflection of just how formidable a foe Hezbollah had proven to be.

SOBERING LESSONS

For the U.S. military in Iraq, and more specifically the so-called “Rumsfeld Doctrine,” which AFP analyzed in-depth on Oct. 23, Israel’s defeat had some very sobering lessons.

First, Israel was quick to underestimate its enemy because, within days of its bombardment of Lebanon, the Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his cabinet were in “George Bush Mission Accomplished” mode. However,
when the Israeli military moved into Lebanon, it found exactly what the U.S. military learned in Iraq—it is one thing to seize ground, but it is a far different story to hold it.

Throughout the war, the Israeli army could advance into towns in southern Lebanon, but it was never capable of holding on to them. Each time it moved into a bombed-out village, it lost so many tanks and men that it was forced to retreat or lose more men and machinery.

Dispirited at the end of the war, the Israeli command—in an act of bloody revenge considered a war crime by many foreign observers—littered vast areas of Lebanon, including hundreds of towns, villages and farms, with cluster-bomb droplets, which have been killing innocent men, women and children ever since.

On the political front, Israel’s defeat at the hands of Hezbollah has done more than discredit a military strategy. It has ripped down the country’s mantle of invincibility. In addition, the United States has lost what little influence it had in Lebanon and found its standing among the majority Shiite population in neighboring Iraq severely weakened.

Hezbollah’s victory has also put America’s puppet regimes in the Middle East on notice that the Muslim street sided with Hezbollah in contrast to the outspoken opinions of the leaders of Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan, who backed the Israeli-U.S. goal of destroying Hezbollah.

Worse still for Washington, Israel’s loss was also America’s, because Hezbollah’s victory has now empowered Syria and Iran in the region and has inflamed Muslim anger at the United States.

Ironically, U.S.-backing for Israel illustrated once again President Bush’s hypocritical call for bringing democracy at the barrel of a gun to the Middle East. Bush supported Israel’s plan to destroy Hezbollah, a Shiite militia group that has been active in democracies in Lebanon and in Iraq.

Shiites have always condemned Israel’s policies in the Middle East. Iraqi Shiites see Hezbollah Shiites as their brothers, just as they do the majority Shiite population in Iran. The lesson that Washington should have learned from the massive Baghdad demonstration in favor of Hezbollah during the war was that Iraqis have no allegiance to the United States, which toppled the Sunni-led government in Iraq.

The failed Israeli military campaign was also a body blow for neo-conservatives and their Israeli allies who believed the defeat of Hezbollah would humiliate its backers, Iran and Syria, and also further the strategy of regime change in the region. Neo-cons in the White House did not even care how many innocents were killed by Israeli air strikes in Lebanon. They were prepared to support a long war by Israel and applauded Secretary of
State Condoleezza Rice when she made the absurd claim that the Lebanon war represented the “birth pangs of a new Middle East.”

There are now concerned voices warning that it is only a matter of time before Israel seeks to restore its cloak of invincibility by finding an excuse to invade Lebanon again and finish the job. Alternatively, Israel could mount an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Either course of action would be disastrous. It would lead to all-out war and would collapse the Middle East, leaving nearly 140,000 U.S. soldiers hostage to attacks across the region.


www,americanfreepress.net

[David Lyle Segal]

HOW HEZBOLLAH DEFENDED LEBANON

OLD-STYLE GUERRILLA WARFARE DEFEATED HIGH-TECH INVADERS

Uh, IR... the article you rely on speaks far more of political gains than military ones. There's good reason for this. The most it can come up with is difficulties experiencd by Israel in holding positions in Lebanon. There were certainly no defeats of Israeli forces.

Israel's strategic goal was to chase Hezbollah away from the border so that they couldn't continue to fire rockets into Israeli communities. I don't want to take away from the resourcefulness, courage, or fighting spirit of the Arab forces. They fought well, and, unlike earlier wars against Israel, were well-led and well-supplied (by Iran). They just weren't strong enough against Israel when it comes down to measuring the outcome.

However sloppily the IDF may have performed, it accomplished the strategic goal before the fighting stopped. Hezbollah doesn't seem to have had a strategic goal, except to bait the Israeli bear. Great reason for bringing down the IDF on the Lebanese, eh?

The whole ground war took place in Lebanon; Hezbollah didn't even try to attack into Israel, except with rocket fire. What you call a victory was nothing more than that Israel didn't stamp out Hezbollah altogether. Hezbollah lost at least twice as many fighters as did Israel. The price was too high -- in Lebanese civilian lives. Not for Hezbollah, who used them as human shields, but for Israel. Israel was sickened at having to kill 1,200 Lebanese and wound 4,400 more in trying to stop Hezbollah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_2006_Lebanon_War. Israeli civilian deaths were 1/25 as great; injured were 1/44.

Likewise, the Lebanese suffered the greatest amount of destruction to property and national infrastructure ($3.5 billion). And it was limited solely by Israel's self-restraint, not Hezbollah defense. Israel had free run of Lebanon, should she have chosen to do so.

Oh, and please remind me again how the UN rescued Israel. According to Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War, the ceasefire was agreed between Israel and Lebanon, with Lebanon promising to interpose its forces if Israel would withdraw from Lebanon. That achieved Israel's strategic purpose, IR. What was Hezbollah's strategic motive for starting the war? As I recollect, Hezbollah lamely tried to hold out for Israel to agree to a reconsideration of the Sheba'a Farms; Israel refused and the ceasefire was imposed nonetheless.

UNSC1701 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1701 also provided for the disarmament of Hezbollah and to stay north of the Litani. No one took Israel's weapons away, IR, or even tried to. Both Lebanon and the UN promised to disarm Hezbollah, regardless of the fact that neither actually did so after Israel left on the strength of the promises. Is that kind of perfidy the best evidence of Arab "triumph" that you can come up with?

Your revisionist history reminds me of Egypt's loudly-trumpted great victory in the 1973 war, even though she regained none of the Sinai and wound up with her Third Army surrounded by the IDF on the Egyptian side of the Canal. They were extricated, I'll remind you, by the UN. The only thing that Sadat won in 1973 (or Nasrallah in 2006) was to avoid the total destruction of their forces before the UN stepped in.

All in all, IR, as in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973, it was a "great Arab victory". After all, they escaped with their scalps before being wiped out entirely. Is that really the best that your fearsome forces can accomplish? I am already aware that you are volulnteering Muslim lives (not your own, of course) to keep attacking Israel. Isn't one definition of insanity the repetition of a course of action with the expectation of a different outcome? Or are you waiting for Iranian missles to vindicate a century of abject Arab failure?

David Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Uh, IR... As I recollect, Israel only wanted to chase Hezbollah away from the border so that they couldn't continue to fire rockets into Israeli communities. The whole ground war took place in Lebanon; Hezbollah didn't even try to attack into Israel. What you call a victory was nothing more than that Israel didn't stamp out Hezbollah altogether.

Remind me again how the UN rescued Israel. According to Wikipedia, the ceasefire was agreed between Israel and Lebanon, with Lebanon promising to interpose its forces so that Israel would withdraw from Lebanon. UNSC1701 also provided for the disarmament of Hezbollah and to stay north of the Litani.

Israel had free run of Lebanon, should she have chosen to do so. The price was too high -- in Lebanese lives.

Your revisionist history reminds me of Sadat's great victory in the 1973 war, even though he regained none of the Sinai and wound up with the Egyptian Third Army surrounded by the IDF on the Egyptian side of the Canal. The only thing that Sadat won in 1973 (or Nasrallah in 2006) was to avoid the total destruction of their forces before the UN stepped in.

David SegalThe victory was that Hezbollah showed the world that Israel could be brought to a draw with the right tactics and training.

Some day one of these conflicts that Israel enters into is going to go wrong.

A person can go to Vegas and roll the dice and be a winner many times in a role. But eventually you are going to role the dice and come up craps.

Every time that Israel wins a war, she is now just that much closer to a loss in a future conflict.

When Israel does lose a war she will be done for. There will be no second chances.

[David Lyle Segal]

The victory was that Hezbollah showed the world that Israel could be brought to a draw with the right tactics and training..

Since when is a draw (if that is what the lopsided deathtoll counts for in your scale) a "victory"? In your mind, perhaps, but not in the boxscores. Would you like to hear me talking about keeping score on the basis of how many Islamist ass-holes "bite the dust"? I don't, but you are sure a temptation. Is two Hezbollah dead for every IDF soldier a victory in your book? You have a strange mathematics, IR. Nasrallah's skin isn't worth the trouble to string him up. Even Iran fired him.

Some day one of these conflicts that Israel enters into is going to go wrong.

Not so far, though, eh? Well, there's always next year. Good luck in the new season, IR. Your ass won't be on the line, of course, which gives you more bravado than you are entitled to. Both my daughter and my son-in-law, however, may be called up (after having completed their military service in the IDF) to meet the cannon fodder that you are sooo brave to offer up for shehada. Guess what? The odds of my family's survival far exceeds your the fate awaiting your bravos in the next conflict, too.

A person can go to Vegas and roll the dice and be a winner many times in a role. But eventually you are going to role the dice and come up craps. Every time that Israel wins a war, she is now just that much closer to a loss in a future conflict.

I love it! Tell it to the Chicago Cubs, who haven't won a World Series since 1908. Come to think of it, their record is better than the Muslims, who haven't won even a battle since Gordon at Khartoum, much less a war. And the Sudanese had the Mahdi on their side! Whodda thunk?

When Israel does lose a war she will be done for. There will be no second chances.

Therefore, Israel will not lose a war. You really don't understand Israel's determination to survive, do you? Too bad for those you are so willing to throw into the Molloch's mouth. I'm nevertheless gladdened to see that you have finally abandoned your whining about Hezbollah's supposed 'victory'. It was really becoming tiresome, in view of the facts. In the future, please rely on victories, rather than bare survival, as the measure of who wins and who loses.

Daoud Segal

[Islam Rocks!]

Tell it to the Chicago Cubs, who haven't won a World Series since 1908.
lWell brother Daoud I currently live in Boston where the Red Sox hadn't won a World Series in 86 years. Now they have won two, 2003 & 2007.

So yes, miracles do happen, and loosing streaks do come to an end.

[David Lyle Segal]

Well brother Daoud I currently live in Boston where the Red Sox hadn't won a World Series in 86 years. Now they have won two, 2003 & 2007. So yes, miracles do happen, and loosing streaks do come to an end.

Pray real hard, IR. Miracles don't happen by themselves. Jews don't die as cheaply as they did 60 years ago. In the meantime, you need to draft better batsmen if you even want to see the playoffs.

David Segal

[Independent Harry]

Pray real hard, IR. Miracles don't happen by themselves. Jews don't die as cheaply as they did 60 years ago. In the meantime, you need to draft better batsmen if you even want to see the playoffs.

David Segal

Playoffs!? Playoffs!? Don't talk to me about the playoffs!!! Playoffs!?

[David Lyle Segal]

1. After a dream filled with images of gold, diamonds and expensive jewelry, wake up and thank G_d that you're a Jew and not one of those stupid, animalistic gentiles. After all, Jews are the greatest humans on earth.

2. Go to the bathroom - your favorite room in the house - and poop. As usual, take your time and really savor the experience: the feeling, the aroma, the "ker-plop" sound of the turd hitting the water. Try to guess - without looking - whether the turd is brown or green, and whether it's smooth or rough. Call your uncle and tell him whether or not your guess was correct. ...

Just imagine my disappointment when I discovered that, not only was this not your own work, but that you found it by trudging through http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/?cat=334, who feature such scholarly interests as:

jew (9)
jew appeasers (5)
jew financial crimes (2)
jew frauds (3)
jew gangsters (1)
jew mentality (32)
jew sex crimes (1)
jew touching WN topic (3)
jew vs mex (1)
Jew World Order (13)
jew-led smear campaigns (23)
jew-Nazi connections (1)
jewed Congress (38)
jewed culture (133)
jewed foreign policy (126)
jewed immigration policy (23)
jewed law (17)
jewesses (2)
jewing Asia (1)
jewish criminality (13)
jewish fifth column (8)
Jewish genetics (5)
jewish hate & hypocrisy (71)
Jewish holidays (1)
jewish mafia (4)
Jewish organizations (1)
Jewish politicians (8)
jewish revolutionaries (1)
jewish ritual murder (3)
jewish scam artists (9)
Jewish symbols (1)
jewish terrorists & terrorism (14)
jewish traitors (3)
Jewish Tribal Review (2)
Jewish Tyranny (70)
jews (29)
jews buying pols (1)
jews in America (14)
Jews in government (1)
jews jewing jewily (25)
jews who fight the jew - or

No wonder you come off clueless. Not a Jewish joke site, if I must say.

David Segal