His orders come from far away no more.

[UserName]

I hope the wingers will take some time to think about what they have done to Americans, in between their chest-thumping antics about some schools being built in Iraq.
But then again..... the right doesn't really care about America or Americans.

http://www.correntewire.com/his_orders_come_from_far_away_no_more

http://bp1.blogger.com/_g2G9XZSAzPY/Rzba-RIc_CI/AAAAAAAABHY/3mMWuttvZ2o/s400/miller.jpg

To every Right-winger who cheered this war on; to the hawks on the left who seriously thought it was a good idea; to the 101st Fighting Keyboarders who still talk in glowing praise of GWBush’s Noble Adventure™ in Nation Building™, I dare you, I DARE YOU, goddamnit, to read the story of James Blake Miller, who became the iconic image of the tough Marine, the brave soldier fighting for democracy, the poster boy for the Neo-con dream, and who, like a real human, paid a terrible price for your blood-soaked fantasies.

From today’s LATimes, and the photographer who snapped that image and thus became inextricably joined to Miller, for good and bad:

The young marine lighted a cigarette and let it dangle. White smoke wafted around his helmet. His face was smeared with war paint. Blood trickled from his right ear and the bridge of his nose.

Momentarily deafened by cannon blasts, he didn’t know the shooting had stopped. He stared at the sunrise.

His expression caught my eye. To me, it said: terrified, exhausted and glad just to be alive. I recognized that look because that’s how I felt too.

I raised my camera and snapped a few shots.

Thus was a relationship forged. High drama, much press coverage, and a Pulitzer nomination followed. For the photographer, Luis Sinco. What followed for Miller was real life, with consequences:

In January 2006, I was on assignment along the U.S.-Mexico border when my wife called. “Your boy is on TV. He has PTSD,” she said. “They kicked him out of the Marines.”

I’d spoken with Miller by phone twice, but the conversations were short and superficial. I knew post-traumatic stress disorder was a complicated diagnosis. So once again, I dug up his number. Again, I offered simple words: Life is sweet. We survived. Everything else is gravy.

Nice try, Luis. I might have said the same thing. You know, buck up, “I never promised you a rose garden”, etc. But Sinco traveled to Kentucky to follow up on Miller:

Mobile homes and battered cars dot the rugged ranges. Marijuana is a major cash crop. Addiction to methamphetamine and prescription drugs is rampant.

Kids marry young, and boys go to work mining the black seams of coal. Heavy trucks rumble day and night.

Miller showed me around. At an abandoned mine, he walked carefully around a large, shallow pool of standing water that mirrored the green wilderness and springtime sky. He picked up a chunk of coal.

“Around here, this is what it’s all about,” he said. “Nothing else.

“It was this or the Marines.”

Like so many in this damned war, the poorer among us are disproportionately represented. And they lack the resources to even begin to deal with the horrors that can affect them in unpredictable ways. And We The People have allowed our government to refuse all but the most perfunctory help to them:

He returned to Camp Lejeune, N.C. His high school sweetheart, Jessica Holbrooks, joined him there, and they were married in a civil ceremony.

Then came the nightmares and hallucinations. He imagined shadowy figures outside the windows. Faces of the dead haunted his sleep.

Once, while cleaning a shotgun, he blacked out. He regained consciousness when Jessica screamed out his name. Snapping back to reality, he realized he was pointing the gun at her.

He reported the problems to superiors, who promised to get him help.

And then Hell truly opened its doors to Miller:

Miller bought a motorcycle and went for long rides. He and Jessica drank all night and slept all day. He started collecting a monthly disability benefit of about $2,500. The couple spent hours watching movies on DVD, Coronas and bourbon cocktails in hand. Friends and family gave them space.

Miller had hoped to pursue a career in law enforcement. But the PTSD and abrupt discharge killed that dream. No one would trust him with a weapon.

But at least he didn’t have to go back to Iraq. He started to realize he wasn’t the only one traumatized by war.

Self-indulgent, weak, irresponsible, some might say. Some like Goldberg, or Kristol, or Rumsfeld, or Bush. The list goes sadly on and on. But none of them have seen what Miller saw, had someone shoot at them like Miller did, seen bodies of friends and foes with broken limbs, covered in gore, dying while they watched . Thus, their opinions are empty, vacant, like the ideals they throw around.

Miller tried to help, to do right by his fellow Marines, to try to tell his story:

Three days after their wedding, I tagged along as the young couple flew to the nation’s capital. Easily distracted by the offer of free drinks for an all-American hero, Miller stayed out until 3 a.m. He was hung over when he met with House members a few hours later.

Miller chatted up GOP Rep. Harold Rogers, the congressman from his district. He smoked and frequently cursed while recounting his combat experiences. I cringed but stayed on the sidelines, snapping photos.

Miller shuffled from one congressional office to the next, passing displays filled with photos of Marines killed in Iraq. As he told his story over and again, the politicians listened politely and thanked Miller for his service. One congressman sent an aide to tell Miller he was too busy to meet. No one promised to take up his cause.

No promises, no support. Kill for us because its noble, the cause you fight for. But are you worth our time, our commitment, our love? Only while the cameras are rolling.

The next day, I found Miller in a back bedroom at his uncle’s house. He told me that he had come close to committing suicide the night before. He had thought about driving his motorcycle off the edge of a mountain road.

He showed me the morning newspaper. His divorce was the lead story.

I felt torn. I didn’t want to get involved. I desperately wanted to close the book on Iraq. But if I hadn’t taken Miller’s picture, this very personal drama wouldn’t be front-page news. I felt responsible.

Sometimes, when things get hard to witness, I use my camera as a shield. It creates a space for me to work — and distance to keep my eyes open and my feelings in check. But Miller had no use for a photojournalist. He needed a helping hand.

I flashed back to the chaos of combat in Fallouja. In the rattle and thunder, brick walls separated me from the world coming to an end. In the tight spaces, we were scared mindless. Everybody dragged deeply on cigarettes.

Above the din, I heard what everybody was thinking: This is the end.

I’ve never felt so completely alone.

I snapped back to the present, and before I knew it, the words spilled out.

“I have to ask you something, Blake,” I said. “If I’d gone down in Fallouja, would you have carried me out?”

“Damn straight,” he said, without hesitation.

“OK then,” I said. “I think you’re wounded pretty badly. I want to help you.”

He looked at me for a moment. “All right,” he said.

That is the price many pay. Do the Right-wingers who yearn for “victory in Mesopotamia” care about Miller? Do the administration hacks who sold us this debacle? Do the National Review writers who still prattle on about “exporting democracy”?

Absolutely not. They will claim it’s all worth it. It’s for the greater good, for whatever tortured ideological fever-dream they wake to every day. But their dreams are nothing compared to James Blake Miller’s. He has lived your dream, people. You own him and his story, every second of it. His crisis of psyche is yours.

May you wake in his Hell tomorrow; may you be the Sin-eater he deserves. May you scream and be tortured in Hell until the end of time. He surely doesn’t deserve his pain.

But you do.

[kres24GT]

I don't agree with the war, but I did serve in it, this kind of partisan nonsense accomplishes nothing,. It is possible to reasonably disagree with the war without resorting to name calling.


War isn't pretty.. no shit. That is not a valid reason to agree/disagree with a war. Plenty of soldiers agree with the war as well, why not link to their stories?

Partisan nonsense here. Let's be rational when talking about what a complete cluster fuck the war is and find a sane rational way to end it and get out troops home, hopefully without having Iraq to fall into chaos.


Screaming wingers this and wingers that accomplishes nothing other than divide.

[UserName]

I don't agree with the war, but I did serve in it, this kind of partisan nonsense accomplishes nothing,. It is possible to reasonably disagree with the war without resorting to name calling.


War isn't pretty.. no shit. That is not a valid reason to agree/disagree with a war. Plenty of soldiers agree with the war as well, why not link to their stories?

Partisan nonsense here. Let's be rational when talking about what a complete cluster fuck the war is and find a sane rational way to end it and get out troops home, hopefully without having Iraq to fall into chaos.


Screaming wingers this and wingers that accomplishes nothing other than divide.

Other than to divide? Are nucking futs???? Never mind, the answer is obvious.

So we should not point out the horrors of war because...... it divides? But what if it is just to inform? Inform people who have their heads stuck so far up their asses, and I know you must know a few, that they believe war is always necessary and no one gets hurt. Well, the best thing for me to do, I guess, is just assume everyone knows everything and we don't need to point things out because it might "divide".
Brilliant! Just brilliant! It's that obtuse thinking that got us in this clusterfuck in the first place.... but maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out either because it might "divide".

[kres24GT]

Other than to divide? Are nucking futs???? Never mind, the answer is obvious.

So we should not point out the horrors of war because...... it divides? But what if it is just to inform? Inform people who have their heads stuck so far up their asses, and I know you must know a few, that they believe war is always necessary and no one gets hurt. Well, the best thing for me to do, I guess, is just assume everyone knows everything and we don't need to point things out because it might "divide".
Brilliant! Just brilliant! It's that obtuse thinking that got us in this clusterfuck in the first place.... but maybe I shouldn't have pointed that out either because it might "divide".


The horrors of war are obvious. Name one war that wasn't horrific. Pointing them out is as relevant to pointing out the sky is blue. Again, you can rationally disagree with the war. If you were able to do so perhaps the people with their heads up their asses would listen. You can't combat nonsense with nonsense.

Actually it's partisan nonsensical fearmongering, exactly what you are doing here, that got us into this mess.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

The horrors of war are obvious. Name one war that wasn't horrific. Pointing them out is as relevant to pointing out the sky is blue. Again, you can rationally disagree with the war. If you were able to do so perhaps the people with their heads up their asses would listen. You can't combat nonsense with nonsense.

Actually it's partisan nonsensical fearmongering, exactly what you are doing here, that got us into this mess.

I like to hear stories from both sides, negative and positive. Since no one ever writes a balanced story, it seems the only way to get a full picture of things from a soldiers point of view.


Lady Mod

[UserName]

The horrors of war are obvious. Name one war that wasn't horrific. Pointing them out is as relevant to pointing out the sky is blue. Again, you can rationally disagree with the war. If you were able to do so perhaps the people with their heads up their asses would listen. You can't combat nonsense with nonsense.

Actually it's partisan nonsensical fearmongering, exactly what you are doing here, that got us into this mess.


How are the horrors "obvious"? Did it just come to you one day or did someone "inform" you? And your stupid analogy about the sky being blue is just.... well.... stupid. I can look up and see the sky is blue, but "obviously" one cannot just look up and see the horrors of war.

This is informing the people, not fear mongering by lying to the people. When people are truthfully informed they can draw their own rational conclusions. When they are lied to, like the right has done for 7 years, then stupid decisions are made. But "obviously" you seem to enjoy wallowing in stupid.

[kres24GT]

I like to hear stories from both sides, negative and positive. Since no one ever writes a balanced story, it seems the only way to get a full picture of things from a soldiers point of view.


Lady Mod


Nothing wrong with sharing stories, negative and/or good.

My only thing is using "war is horrific" as a reason against the war is stupid. Every war is horrific... war sucks and is not pretty. Let's talk about the reasons the war sucks.... poorly planned, poorly led, corrupt Iraqi government, etc.

[kres24GT]

How are the horrors "obvious"? Did it just come to you one day or did someone "inform" you? And your stupid analogy about the sky being blue is just.... well.... stupid. I can look up and see the sky is blue, but "obviously" one cannot just look up and see the horrors of war.

This is informing the people, not fear mongering by lying to the people. When people are truthfully informed they can draw their own rational conclusions. When they are lied to, like the right has done for 7 years, then stupid decisions are made. But "obviously" you seem to enjoy wallowing in stupid.


Please name one war that was not horrific. All wars are horrific. War sucks, it is not fun, it is not pretty, and despite what many movies tell us, is not glorious.

[Kinky Jones]

Please name one war that was not horrific. All wars are horrific. War sucks, it is not fun, it is not pretty, and despite what many movies tell us, is not glorious.

the problem is that in the past the horrors of what the troops who fight them go thru after the war have been hidden, yeah you went to war but get over it don'nt be a pussy...

and you don't think it's disgusting that yourfellow Marines who killed over there are getting kicked out with "pre-existing" conditions and then not getting any help?

or that the republicans really don't give two shits about our troops, proof ofthat being that they all voted against a bill that the dems tried to pass that would have given them more time at home with their families???

if anybody wants to hear lots more stories about guys like the one in this story watch The Ground Truth here is a good trailer for it (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6Wk6iol7Jk) it is the troops telling it in their own words not a partisan hatchet job, and these guys are the anti-war vet types that weren't considered patriots and weren't allowed to march in Veteran's Day parades

[UserName]

Please name one war that was not horrific. All wars are horrific. War sucks, it is not fun, it is not pretty, and despite what many movies tell us, is not glorious.

You need me to "inform" you?:)
No one said war is not horrific. I was pointing out that very fact when you took affront and said informing people of this simple fact served no other purpose than to "divide".

"The greatest dignity and respect you can give victims of war is to show the horror they suffered, the absolute gruesome horror."
-War Photographer David Lesson

I guess you don't agree with David Lesson either, huh?

[kres24GT]

You need me to "inform" you?:)
No one said war is not horrific. I was pointing out that very fact when you took affront and said informing people of this simple fact served no other purpose than to "divide".

"The greatest dignity and respect you can give victims of war is to show the horror they suffered, the absolute gruesome horror."
-War Photographer David Lesson

I guess you don't agree with David Lesson either, huh?


No, if you want to share the horrors fine. Only pointing out that your "wingers this" and "chicken hawks" that comments have nothing to do with the Iraq war being horrific. All wars are horrific, its not a reason to be for or against a war.

[UserName]

No, if you want to share the horrors fine.

Then we agree.

[kres24GT]

the problem is that in the past the horrors of what the troops who fight them go thru after the war have been hidden, yeah you went to war but get over it don'nt be a pussy...

and you don't think it's disgusting that yourfellow Marines who killed over there are getting kicked out with "pre-existing" conditions and then not getting any help?

or that the republicans really don't give two shits about our troops, proof ofthat being that they all voted against a bill that the dems tried to pass that would have given them more time at home with their families???

if anybody wants to hear lots more stories about guys like the one in this story watch The Ground Truth here is a good trailer for it (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6Wk6iol7Jk) it is the troops telling it in their own words not a partisan hatchet job, and these guys are the anti-war vet types that weren't considered patriots and weren't allowed to march in Veteran's Day parades


I find it funny how anti-war people love and quote anti-war vets and pro-war people vets love and quote pro war vets.

Why do we have to be so divided, because the politicians say so???


Anyone who looks at the war objectively should be able to admit its a cluster fuck and was a colossal blunder. Those who say otherwise are delusional. One can also look at it and think sinister moves by politcians may have played a part.

Point is, plenty of legitimate gripes about this war, and the only people who outright support it our party sheep or morons. No need to take it to the extreme level many do.

As a OIF Vet I am able to look at the war and see it was a mistake. I also am tired of hearing nothing but negative crap followed by name calling. Not saying people can't do this, just saying it accomplishes little. Especially when its followed by partisan name calling.

[UserName]

if anybody wants to hear lots more stories about guys like the one in this story watch The Ground Truth here is a good trailer for it (http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6Wk6iol7Jk) it is the troops telling it in their own words not a partisan hatchet job, and these guys are the anti-war vet types that weren't considered patriots and weren't allowed to march in Veteran's Day parades

Gee, I hope this film is not not designed to "divide".:lmao2:

It's time everyone had a look at what this stupid war is costing America. And if one Party is to blame more than the other, so be it. It's high time the right started to take responsibility for their malfeasance.

[kres24GT]

Then we agree.


So we agree a war being horrific and crazy fucked up shit occurring during this war has nothing to do with being for/against a war?

[UserName]

So we agree a war being horrific and crazy fucked up shit occurring during this war has nothing to do with being for/against a war?

I believe it would depend on the particular war. Lumping all wars in one category would be, quite frankly, moronic. Don't you think?

[kres24GT]

I believe it would depend on the particular war. Lumping all wars in one category would be, quite frankly, moronic. Don't you think?


Sure, but basing whether you are for or against a war based on a common trait of all wars would be even more ironic. Don't you think?

[UserName]

Sure, but basing whether you are for or against a war based on a common trait of all wars would be even more ironic. Don't you think?

Certainly not. We agree that all wars are horrific. But having your citizens die for nothing compared to them dying in defense of our homeland are two different things altogether. Don't you think?

[kres24GT]

Certainly not. We agree that all wars are horrific. But having your citizens die for nothing compared to them dying in defense of our homeland are two different things altogether. Don't you think?


Dying for no reason is horrible, it has nothing to do with a war being horrific. The war is horrific regardless if you think they are dying for nothing or not.

I won't go as fart to say they are dying for nothing, more like they are dying for a pipe dream. However, the war being horrific has no impact on this belief, all wars are horrific.

[UserName]

Dying for no reason is horrible, it has nothing to do with a war being horrific. The war is horrific regardless if you think they are dying for nothing or not.

I won't go as fart to say they are dying for nothing, more like they are dying for a pipe dream. However, the war being horrific has no impact on this belief, all wars are horrific.


I believe we agreed to that simple fact many posts back. What we don't seem to be able to agree on is that informing people that war is horrific is only designed to "divide" as you put it.
Informing people that war is horrific is designed to stop people from getting into stupid wars that have no real purpose, as we have done under this regressive Republican rule. We need to make sure the right people take responsibility for their errors and that it doesn't happen ever again.

[kres24GT]

I believe we agreed to that simple fact many posts back. What we don't seem to be able to agree on is that informing people that war is horrific is only designed to "divide" as you put it.
Informing people that war is horrific is designed to stop people from getting into stupid wars that have no real purpose, as we have done under this regressive Republican rule. We need to make sure the right people take responsibility for their errors and that it doesn't happen ever again.


It's not inly meant to divide. The other stuff you included in the post was meant to divide and irrelevant to the story.

Agree 100% on the responsibility, although I hold all politcians responsible, not just republicans, again irrelevant to the fact wars are horrific. More so than that I hold us responsible.

[Kinky Jones]

I find it funny how anti-war people love and quote anti-war vets and pro-war people vets love and quote pro war vets.

Why do we have to be so divided, because the politicians say so???


Anyone who looks at the war objectively should be able to admit its a cluster fuck and was a colossal blunder. Those who say otherwise are delusional. One can also look at it and think sinister moves by politcians may have played a part.

Point is, plenty of legitimate gripes about this war, and the only people who outright support it our party sheep or morons. No need to take it to the extreme level many do.

As a OIF Vet I am able to look at the war and see it was a mistake. I also am tired of hearing nothing but negative crap followed by name calling. Not saying people can't do this, just saying it accomplishes little. Especially when its followed by partisan name calling.

as i have a former Marine brother who has PTSD and who tried to kill me, and having a best friend who went thru the same, was in the hospital and almost died from being fucked up in the head, and seeing and hearing vets talk about killing themselves over and over and over, i could care less what you think on the subject even though you did serve over there...

[kres24GT]

as i have a former Marine brother who has PTSD and who tried to kill me, and having a best friend who went thru the same, was in the hospital and almost died from being fucked up in the head, and seeing and hearing vets talk about killing themselves over and over and over, i could care less what you think on the subject even though you did serve over there...


Like I said war is fucked up and fucks a lot of people up. It's irrelevant to the fact of whether or not we should be fighting a war. Even if the Iraq war were sunshine and gumdrops, it was still stupid and pointless to go there. .

[Kinky Jones]

:( My only thing is using "war is horrific" as a reason against the war is stupid. Every war is horrific... war sucks and is not pretty. Let's talk about the reasons the war sucks.... poorly planned, poorly led, corrupt Iraqi government, etc.

who planned it? republicans, mainly the bush cabinet and his civy cronies... who lead the war? the commander in chief and his civilian cronies... why does the iraqi gov't suck so bad? their PM whom bush put into place and who won't let their elected officials vote on the things they want to...

where did all the bad intel come from? the bushcronies who made stuff up, sent it to foreign contries, and then said "hey look! they all have the same intel as us! so we must be right, let's attack now!"

who is the jackass going on tv saying "if you want to avoid WWIII blah blah blah Iran is evil"????

what exactly do you blame the dems for? (they were dumb asses for not reading what they voted for, and they didn't vote to go to war, the got conned by the cons, "we ain't really gonna attack saddam, it's just a show of force" and then they had troops there in a week...hell it took the dems gaining a tiny bit of power in congress to force a change in course instead of "staying the course forever and ever without and end in sight"

can you answer my question on how the republicans voted for NOT giving troops more time home instead of forcing them to serve 200% more time overseas than they are supposed to? serioulsy, is that not partisan bullshit, what possible answer is there for voting that way except to make the dems look bad publicly, you know, trying to make them look inept, just like they've done thru out recent history when the reds lose power after fucking things up royally...

trying to place as much blame for the mess in Iraq equally on the dems and reps is ludicrous, and if you weren't ex military and therefore trained to lean towrds conservatsim you would realize that, why do you think our active military personnel votes 90% red and only donate money to republican candidates? everybody who joins up just happens to be a republican?

[kres24GT]

:(

who planned it? republicans, mainly the bush cabinet and his civy cronies... who lead the war? the commander in chief and his civilian cronies... why does the iraqi gov't suck so bad? their PM whom bush put into place and who won't let their elected officials vote on the things they want to...

where did all the bad intel come from? the bushcronies who made stuff up, sent it to foreign contries, and then said "hey look! they all have the same intel as us! so we must be right, let's attack now!"

who is the jackass going on tv saying "if you want to avoid WWIII blah blah blah Iran is evil"????

what exactly do you blame the dems for? (they were dumb asses for not reading what they voted for, and they didn't vote to go to war, the got conned by the cons, "we ain't really gonna attack saddam, it's just a show of force" and then they had troops there in a week...hell it took the dems gaining a tiny bit of power in congress to force a change in course instead of "staying the course forever and ever without and end in sight"

can you answer my question on how the republicans voted for NOT giving troops more time home instead of forcing them to serve 200% more time overseas than they are supposed to? serioulsy, is that not partisan bullshit, what possible answer is there for voting that way except to make the dems look bad publicly, you know, trying to make them look inept, just like they've done thru out recent history when the reds lose power after fucking things up royally...

trying to place as much blame for the mess in Iraq equally on the dems and reps is ludicrous, and if you weren't ex military and therefore trained to lean towrds conservatsim you would realize that, why do you think our active military personnel votes 90% red and only donate money to republican candidates? everybody who joins up just happens to be a republican?


You have some good points in here, too bad its clouded in partisan nonsense that it difficult to pull them out.

I blame the American people for the Iraq mess, we gave the politcians too much power and now they can go to war all willy-nilly without consequences.


LMAO @ your garbage about me and Republicans, i hate Republicans. I just happen to hate dems too. yet another person who can't comprehend this.


Politicians are politcians. When it comes down to it the letter next o their name is just that, a letter.

[UserName]

It's not inly meant to divide. The other stuff you included in the post was meant to divide and irrelevant to the story.

Agree 100% on the responsibility, although I hold all politcians responsible, not just republicans, again irrelevant to the fact wars are horrific. More so than that I hold us responsible.

These very significant items are "irrelevant" because you say so? I don't think so, my friend. You believe they are irrelevant simply because you have issues with the truth. Somehow, the truth seems to hurt you, but don't feel left out, the truth seems to hurt a lot of people on the right.
The truth is that the regressive right has done everything in their power to perpetuate the pain and suffering. They have done everything in their power to prolong this stupid war. And they have done everything in their power to make sure the American public is not truthfully informed.

[Kinky Jones]

You have some good points in here, too bad its clouded in partisan nonsense that it difficult to pull them out.

I blame the American people for the Iraq mess, we gave the politcians too much power and now they can go to war all willy-nilly without consequences.


LMAO @ your garbage about me and Republicans, i hate Republicans. I just happen to hate dems too. yet another person who can't comprehend this.


Politicians are politcians. When it comes down to it the letter next o their name is just that, a letter.

LMAO at your constant self righteous laughing your ass off, that is all you do is retort with a smart ass LMAO and bring nothing of substance to your arguments...

you are the one not comprehending, you have been trained in conservatism, as in you hate poor people and what not hence your "lets force abortions" and other nonsense... and for somebody who has said "i joined the Marines becasue my parents were fuck ups" your whole personal responsibilty BS goes right out the window...

and blaming the people who were all lied to about Iraq and 9/11 being connected, well that's pathetic too, we didnt give them too much power, the bush admin took a little bit of power and made the president king :thumbsup:

[kres24GT]

LMAO at your constant self righteous laughing your ass off, that is all you do is retort with a smart ass LMAO and bring nothing of substance to your arguments...

you are the one not comprehending, you have been trained in conservatism, as in you hate poor people and what not hence your "lets force abortions" and other nonsense... and for somebody who has said "i joined the Marines becasue my parents were fuck ups" your whole personal responsibilty BS goes right out the window...

and blaming the people who were all lied to about Iraq and 9/11 being connected, well that's pathetic too, we didnt give them too much power, the bush admin took a little bit of power and made the president king :thumbsup:


I've been trained in conservatism, what nonsense. Since I am not a conservative, that makes even less sense.

It msut be great to be in la-la land where we blame all of out problems on people based on what politcal party they cl;aim to be. You play right into the politicians hands with that, congrats. They will continue to fuck is all the while you are screaming it's all THEIR fault.

Rep, Dem, no difference, they are all politcians and all scum. People like you are easily divided though are their best resource. Congrats.

[kres24GT]

These very significant items are "irrelevant" because you say so? I don't think so, my friend. You believe they are irrelevant simply because you have issues with the truth. Somehow, the truth seems to hurt you, but don't feel left out, the truth seems to hurt a lot of people on the right.
The truth is that the regressive right has done everything in their power to perpetuate the pain and suffering. They have done everything in their power to prolong this stupid war. And they have done everything in their power to make sure the American public is not truthfully informed.


And so have the Democrats. Is it fun to be so delusional? All the politcians want to fuck you and I. The letter next to their name doesn't matter. They want to take our money and use it to keep poor people poor and make rich people richer. Thanks to people like you who treat politics like it's a college football game are their bred and butter.


Notice you can't talk about this without screaming winger this, and righty that, etc. It's partisan nonsense. We are in this mess because of POLITICIANS and the power we gave them.

[Kinky Jones]

I've been trained in conservatism, what nonsense. Since I am not a conservative, that makes even less sense.

It msut be great to be in la-la land where we blame all of out problems on people based on what politcal party they cl;aim to be. You play right into the politicians hands with that, congrats. They will continue to fuck is all the while you are screaming it's all THEIR fault.

Rep, Dem, no difference, they are all politcians and all scum. People like you are easily divided though are their best resource. Congrats.

you sound like a broken record filled with anger, and unable to actually discuss anything... blah blah blah you seem mystified as to why Bill refers to you as a "republican apologist" and i point out some of the reasons and you just retort "LMAO at you you don't know shit"

you are so filled with anger that you don't even give a shit about our troops who actually killed other people over there and not just played a support role, or maybe you are angry as fuck becasue you had a hand in some bad shit, i don't know and don't care at this point, i'll keep on helping people and you can keep hating them :thumbsup: i quit listening to you with the whole forced abortion thread, where anybody who uses one brain cell on that subject would know that teaching young sexually mature humans that safe sex is the way to go and would help solve the problem rather quickly... but you want to "let the poor die off" cause you were once poor scum, but then you joined the corp and then got a job so now you aren't :(

you claim to be a libertarian? they have their foundation on despising poor people? i don't think so pal, libertarian=liberty, forced abortions and crying about welfare aren't liberty whatsoever, and you are incapable of differentiating between actual poor people getting a raw deal, and the small percentage of system leeches who are weaseling off the system


and if you can't differentiate between dems and republicans on the issue of this war then you are in la la land not me, enjoy the angry ride you can't seem to step off of

[kres24GT]

you sound like a broken record filled with anger, and unable to actually discuss anything... blah blah blah you seem mystified as to why Bill refers to you as a "republican apologist" and i point out some of the reasons and you just retort "LMAO at you you don't know shit"

you are so filled with anger that you don't even give a shit about our troops who actually killed other people over there and not just played a support role, or maybe you are angry as fuck becasue you had a hand in some bad shit, i don't know and don't care at this point, i'll keep on helping people and you can keep hating them :thumbsup: i quit listening to you with the whole forced abortion thread, where anybody who uses one brain cell on that subject would know that teaching young sexually mature humans that safe sex is the way to go and would help solve the problem rather quickly... but you want to "let the poor die off" cause you were once poor scum, but then you joined the corp and then got a job so now you aren't :(

you claim to be a libertarian? they have their foundation on despising poor people? i don't think so pal, libertarian=liberty, forced abortions and crying about welfare aren't liberty whatsoever, and you are incapable of differentiating between actual poor people getting a raw deal, and the small percentage of system leeches who are weaseling off the system


and if you can't differentiate between dems and republicans on the issue of this war then you are in la la land not me, enjoy the angry ride you can't seem to step off of


Please give me one example of where I have apologized for Republicans.

[Kinky Jones]

Please give me one example of where I have apologized for Republicans.

you haven't kres, that wasn't my point, but military personel lean towards republicans via their training., in the documentary i posted a trailer for and some of my friends have told me the same thing, and the Corp churned my brother out a "card carrying republican" who wants to beat the shit outta anyone who disagrees with him... hope that makes a little sense, and i don't think you are a republican apologist, just angry at the system that sent you someplace that i believe you never shoulda been...

and man i really didn't wanna start a pissing contest with you, the PTSD subject is the only thing i let get me angry these days becasue of my situation with my brother, some of the things you say sorta remind me of him, he once ssaid the most fucked up thing i have ever heard a Marine say, that "every single person who dies in Iraq dies becasue they are stupid fucks" and he wasn't talking abut Iraqis but our own troops, i cant fathom how someone could say that except that he is fucked in the head from what he went thru... and when you didn't really show compassion for the Marine in ths story but instead said it's partisan crap it hit a nerve with me, PTSD isn't partisan crap but a really big problem, i've done alot of reasearch on it since i figured out that is why my bro tried to slice me up and that it isn't really because he hates me, which i thought at first becasue of what he said before he tried to do it :(

and i agree with you on alot of things and the problems facing this country, just not some of your solutions to those problems, i try to view things these days from all 360 degrees and not just one single angle that can lead to some frsutration and/or anger... i hope you can take that me knowing/remebering all that i do about you shows that i give a shit in some way, if you are like the Marines that I know it may not seem like anybody does, my family doesn't seem to give two shits about what my bro went thru, same for my buddy who was in the hospital for a long time before finally getting help from the VFW, hell my same buddy who got a purple heart over there, and who told me a story of how he was dragging fellow Marines one who had a missing arm and another who had his jaw hanging on by a piece of skin back into cover when he took a hit in the arm, took off his purple heart plates becasue he doesn't feel right anymore having them on his vehicles... i know war is hell, i wanna stop it from happening again, and getting out the stories of the men who have gone thru the real serious shit is one way to do it, the writers of some articles are partisan hacks but these guys are heroes in my opinion... so sorry i got steamed and vented in your direction

[Little Red Dog]

I think the ratio of soldiers with PTSD is so high becuase our guys don't know who the enemy is over there.

I mean, I remember recently seeing a clip of a unit in (I think) Anbar province somewhere. While on patrol, the unit had been shot at from the upper floor of a house. They were pretty sure which house it was. But when they went to investigate, the house was only occupied by an old man and two women. The old man insisted no one had used their upper floor the previous night. But he told them that his son-in-law had been staying with them and he suspected that the son-in-law may have been in contact with insurgents. The old man insists again and again, that he likes Americans and is grateful for them to be in his town.

Now, check this out: The soldiers KNOW they got shot at from this house. They have NO proof any of the people they can find in the house was the shooter. It seems as though the old guy is trying to tell them (obliquely) what happened. But the old guy could be lying. Or he could be telling the truth in the only way he can and still protect his family from insurgents who may have threatened them.

If you're the soldiers, what do you do? Imprison and torture what very possibly could be innocent people? Shoot em all, and create more animosity among the locals? This family really could be their friends, or they could be enemies - and the troops have no way of knowing which.

To have to interact every day with a civilian populace that smiles to your face and may or may not be pointing a gun at your back would HAVE to fuck with your head. Whether you support the war or not.

It's a truly shitty position to be in.

[UserName]

And so have the Democrats. Is it fun to be so delusional? All the politcians want to fuck you and I. The letter next to their name doesn't matter. They want to take our money and use it to keep poor people poor and make rich people richer. Thanks to people like you who treat politics like it's a college football game are their bred and butter.


Notice you can't talk about this without screaming winger this, and righty that, etc. It's partisan nonsense. We are in this mess because of POLITICIANS and the power we gave them.

Not all politicians are out to "fuck" you and anyone who truly believes this is suffering from paranoid delusions as their beliefs are simply not backed up by reality. Paranoid Delusions are beliefs of a suspicious nature, where the person believes something is not right with them, another person, or the world in general, which poses serious problems for them. You have serious problems, my friend.

I will admit that I'm getting a little pissed off at both Parties for not coming together to stop this stupid war and start concentrating on America and it's citizens again. We have enough issues at home to deal with.