I just want to freak everybody out with this

[Smurf-Herder]

Christians are Jews.

....... according to the Bible.

;)

[disrupter]

Isn't it absurd/ironic when white racist christians hate & reject jews?

never underestimate the human imagination's capacity for idiocy.

Thank god i am an atheist, i get to reject all religious people. Yay!
(teasing, mostly)

[Little Red Dog]

Well.... YA! :p

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Christians are Jews.

....... according to the Bible.

;)


By adoption. The branches are grafted into the original tree.

:D

[Smurf-Herder]

By adoption. The branches are grafted into the original tree.

:D

:thumbsup:

I didn't expect anyone here to know that.

As Disrupter said, the white christian supremecist types appear to be totally ignorant of that. Not that I think people here are that type. But a lot of people don't understand what the religion is based on.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

:thumbsup:

I didn't expect anyone here to know that.

As Disrupter said, the white christian supremecist types appear to be totally ignorant of that. Not that I think people here are that type. But a lot of people don't understand what the religion is based on.

I used to teach Sunday school and children's church. And I was a stickler for details.

LOL

[disrupter]

Christians are a sect of jews who think christ was the jewish god's messiah.
non-christian jews are ones who don't think he was the jewish god's messiah. i believe they are still waiting.

they supposedly have the same god.

On to breaking news: 'How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?'

Q: Which melodramatic soap opera religion do you cast yourself in?

Religion an equal opportunity idiot employer.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Christians are a sect of jews who think christ was the jewish god's messiah.
non-christian jews are ones who don't think he was the jewish god's messiah. i believe they are still waiting.

they supposedly have the same god.

On to breaking news: 'How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?'

You misquote the question. It's how many angels can dance on the point of a needle? That's the opposite end from the head.


Q: Which melodramatic soap opera religion do you cast yourself in?

Religion an equal opportunity idiot employer.

I don't. I left organized religion 10 years ago. I serve God on my own without aide of hypocritical, lukewarm, bench sitters.

And call it what you want, but I've experienced too many unexplainable things in that 10 years to reliably say they were caused by anything other than God for lack of a better source to name.

It doesn't bother me that people seek out God to base their faith on. What bothers me is when they say that they do it, but don't, and then bash other people over the head and condemn them to eternal damnation and hell, because of their lack of understanding or knowledge of scripture that they rarely bother to read but certainly like to misquote out of it's original context.


And by the way, Christians are not a "sect of Jews". They are still Gentiles who have been adopted into the family called Jews after 1) believing that Israel's God Jehovah sent his Son, Christ, to die on a cross for payment of their sins. 2) Repented of those sins (which means turn away from) and were born again. Without that, they are not adopted. Christian by name only is still damned to eternal separation from God the Father just as surely as anyone else.


Lady Mod

[LadyMod at scam.com]

:thumbsup:

I didn't expect anyone here to know that.

As Disrupter said, the white christian supremecist types appear to be totally ignorant of that. Not that I think people here are that type. But a lot of people don't understand what the religion is based on.

Did you know that you can't disinherit an adopted child? A natural child yes, but not an adopted child.

I'm pretty sure this is how "Once saved, always saved" managed to become a mantra.

LOL

[Smurf-Herder]

Did you know that you can't disinherit an adopted child? A natural child yes, but not an adopted child.

I'm pretty sure this is how "Once saved, always saved" managed to become a mantra.

LOL

Some believe that.

But it doesn't pan out. Too much contradicts that interpretation.

[Smurf-Herder]

I used to teach Sunday school and children's church. And I was a stickler for details.

LOL

I was a Sunday School teacher and Youth Group Leader for 10 years, before I left.

[Moby]

I just assumed that everyone knew that but decided to ignore it. Just like Jesus teaching about loving thy neighbor as thy brother and all that stuff that angry Christians talk about.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I was a Sunday School teacher and Youth Group Leader for 10 years, before I left.

I worked with the Youth Group, but mostly the younger kids, sixth grade and down. Then taught some adult classes as well as I got older.

I taught around 20 years, since I was almost 18. My parents never understood it since I was never raised in a church or a religion. I had to wait until I turned 18 to be baptized because they would not allow it as I had been baptized when I was an infant. Needless to say, they did not attend. A friend who took me to church and attended the bible study I was doing at school (on the lawn during the lunch break, the last count there were about 60 kids and adults attending it, I never kept track, LOL) took me and the people whose bible study group I attended every week came to witness.

Then a month later I graduated, got married and moved 3 states away. My parents eventually got over my "rebellion".

Lady Mod

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I just assumed that everyone knew that but decided to ignore it. Just like Jesus teaching about loving thy neighbor as thy brother and all that stuff that angry Christians talk about.

Unfortunately, most "Christians" only give scripture lip service, not life service.

LOL

[disrupter]

If religion is SIMPLY the impulse to do good things i don't object i support it. Adding intelligence to it makes it a more successful endeavor.

But most religion is so overloaded with baggage, offensive baggage it seems more efficient & to the point to simply reject the whole ball of wax than to try to microscopically remove the small good portions of them for use.

if the sinner is full of sin enough &/or obnoxious enough, pardon me if i reject the whole deal. God must be more of a recycler of people than i am. But I am tired of being forced to live with his piles of stinking garbage, though.

Labeling something as 'religious' doesn't stop it from stinking or being stupid.

Either it is or isn't & 'religion' is an independent concept to layer on it.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

If religion is SIMPLY the impulse to do good things i don't object i support it. Adding intelligence to it makes it a more successful endeavor.

But most religion is so overloaded with baggage, offensive baggage it seems more efficient & to the point to simply reject the whole ball of wax than to try to microscopically remove the small good portions of them for use.

if the sinner is full of sin enough &/or obnoxious enough, pardon me if i reject the whole deal. God must be more of a recycler of people than i am. But I am tired of being forced to live with his piles of stinking garbage, though.

Labeling something as 'religious' doesn't stop it from stinking or being stupid.

Either it is or isn't & 'religion' is an independent concept to layer on it.

Is there some religious person holding a gun to your head and forcing you to accept what they believe?

If not, then I guess you really don't have any reason to complain.

;)

[disrupter]

They are re-writing laws forcing me to conform to their religious precepts, backed up by police with guns.

Is that not virtually the same thing?

[LadyMod at scam.com]

They are re-writing laws forcing me to conform to their religious precepts, backed up by police with guns.

Is that not virtually the same thing?

OK, you have a point there. It is.

Which laws are being rewritten?


Lady Mod

[disrupter]

They are working to outlaw abortion.
IMO drug prohibition is a purely an arbitrary cultural/religious expression of bias.
Polygamy is outlawed, yet without any good clinical data about it.
Same sex marriages are fought against vociferously.

But most the 'pro-lifers' seem to love war, & they are clueless about the bizarre hypocrisy of that.

They want me to use terms like Islamofacism & Isamic Caliphate to provide cover for their religious wars.
They are working to attack Iran where there is no good rational reason for it.

In short ignorant, knee jerk people are dangerous.
By operating on 'faith' they short circuit the rational thought process.
They think some prescription, recipe or plan already exists rather than engaging their minds to come up with one.

there is no plan or prescription.
we are winging it.
awareness of that helps.
Forethought about potentially better outcomes might help bring them about.

If god gave us brains, did he/she/it not want us to use them?
According to faith & dogma, no.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

They are working to outlaw abortion.
IMO drug prohibition is a purely an arbitrary cultural/religious expression of bias.

And they might get it too if people, and women inparticular don't wake up and protest it.

Polygamy is outlawed, yet without any good clinical data about it.

Well, the arrangement would be OK with me. As long as it was a big, strong, smart guy with a lot of money. I'll share. LOL. It might not be so good for the guy though.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2006/03/who_is_is_harme.html

Same sex marriages are fought against vociferously.

That's because most people mistakenly believe the the government can regulate marriage in the first place. The license, piece of paper is nothing more than a contract between the man, woman and state. It allows the state to regulate if they choose to, everything that goes on in that family.
Stop calling it marriage. It's not. It's a civil union.

Marriage in it's true form is between a man, woman and God. Civil unions are licenses between two people and the state. God is not even mentioned in the contract. If Christians weren't so damned stupid, they would put this practice of allowing the state a sayso in their "marriage" to an end.

But most the 'pro-lifers' seem to love war, & they are clueless about the bizarre hypocrisy of that.

No one has made a good case that the embryo is at war with the woman's body and it's her right to vanquish the enemy. If there was oil involved they would be aborting embryos left and right.

They want me to use terms like Islamofacism & Isamic Caliphate to provide cover for their religious wars.
They are working to attack Iran where there is no good rational reason for it.

There are some perfectly non-religious people, like Radio Guy who do the same thing.

And religious people are told they are lambs. Sheep that go meekly before the slaughter. They are fulfilling prophecy.

In short ignorant, knee jerk people are dangerous.
By operating on 'faith' they short circuit the rational thought process.
They think some prescription, recipe or plan already exists rather than engaging their minds to come up with one.

Can't argue with that.

there is no plan or prescription.
we are winging it.
awareness of that helps.
Forethought about potentially better outcomes might help bring them about.

If god gave us brains, did he/she/it not want us to use them?
According to faith & dogma, no.

Yes. But not doing so seems to plague most people, religious or not. However they are waking up to reality.


Lady

[Smurf-Herder]

I worked with the Youth Group, but mostly the younger kids, sixth grade and down. Then taught some adult classes as well as I got older.

I taught around 20 years, since I was almost 18. My parents never understood it since I was never raised in a church or a religion. I had to wait until I turned 18 to be baptized because they would not allow it as I had been baptized when I was an infant. Needless to say, they did not attend. A friend who took me to church and attended the bible study I was doing at school (on the lawn during the lunch break, the last count there were about 60 kids and adults attending it, I never kept track, LOL) took me and the people whose bible study group I attended every week came to witness.

Then a month later I graduated, got married and moved 3 states away. My parents eventually got over my "rebellion".

Lady Mod

My story is too involved to go into here. Basically, I had studied metaphysics, philosophy and the occult for years. I had a wild experience leaving my first wife to live with a girl heavily into the Spiritualist movement for a week; and she and her friends freaked me out - I've seen the dark side. When I got back with my first wife, she understood what was going on. Years later, after we eventually did get divorced, I had the most romantic affair of my life. I'll always think of Deb as the love of my life. Anyway, she left me for this Mr.Muscle born again guy; and kept coming to visit me, to get me to come to church. I ended up going to another church, where I knew people. I was dedicated, and learned a lot; being able to understand some things from a better perspective than most, from my past knowledge and experiences. And well, over time I saw the inconsistencies in the people, etc. And after 10 years, and marrying my second wife, we faded out; and moved away.

There's enough to fill a book. But that's the basics.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

My story is too involved to go into here. Basically, I had studied metaphysics, philosophy and the occult for years. I had a wild experience leaving my first wife to live with a girl heavily into the Spiritualist movement for a week; and she and her friends freaked me out - I've seen the dark side. When I got back with my first wife, she understood what was going on. Years later, after we eventually did get divorced, I had the most romantic affair of my life. I'll always think of Deb as the love of my life. Anyway, she left me for this Mr.Muscle born again guy; and kept coming to visit me, to get me to come to church. I ended up going to another church, where I knew people. I was dedicated, and learned a lot; being able to understand some things from a better perspective than most, from my past knowledge and experiences. And well, over time I saw the inconsistencies in the people, etc. And after 10 years, and marrying my second wife, we faded out; and moved away.

There's enough to fill a book. But that's the basics.

LOL, "Mr. Muscle Born again guy". You do have a way with words.

Bad enough she left you but then she comes back in the name of Jesus to rub salt in the wound. Geez!

We've had some similar experiences in the spiritual realm. I just didn't make mine public. I've learned from the forum I moderate, that when I did, some whacko bible thumper would dog me to death. There's been 4 in the last two years.

The first some crazy woman, username Sugar something. It started out she was harassing a really nice guy who lived in Israel and is a Jewish scholar. I guess she was determined she was going to change him into a christian and it finally got so bad, her flooding his threads and bugging him that I finally stepped in and told her to knock it off. I think I had to ban her for a week to let her know I meant business. She was good after she came back and it went well for awhile and then in one thread I was explaining to a friend of mine how to go within and be still. Basically meditation. I mentioned about hearing the still small voice and OMG. Suddenly I was hearing devils and I become her target. LOL. Eventually we had to have her IP blocked. And the nephew's too that joined her.

There there was Yogi. The man of a million names. I think he had a personality disorder. He was definitely not right in the head.

Then Tony and his wife. The infamous "Jack Chick" couple. They went from deep religion to Nazi worship. He was BVR who Linkster or Bill finally banned. That was mild compared to the Jack Chick phase on scam.

And last but certainly not least, Douglas Bickford. Mr. Bush is causing Big ass earthquakes and Lady Mod is covering it up. And Lady Mod is a terrorist and should have her fingernails ripped out slowly one by one, I'm going to hunt you down bitch.........

PRAY THIS WITH ME.

GOD, GREAT SPIRIT, JESUS, ALLAH, HIGHER POWER. GREAT SPIRIT DOESN'T CARE WHAT WE CALL HIM JUST AS LONG AS WE CALL.

GIVE US PERFECT PROTECTION, LOVE, COMPASSION, FAITH, REPENTANCE (FORGIVE US FOR BREAKING OF YOUR DEVINE LAWS), TRUTH, WISDOM, GOSPEL OF PEACE, SALVATION, RIGHTEOUSNESS, WORD OF GOD, POWER TO PRAY WITHOUT CEASING, ALL THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT by the POWER OF THE BLOOD WATER, SPIRIT SHED ON THE CROSS AT CALVARY and BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY RESURRECTION. Fix US SO WE CAN HELP YOU FIX THIS MESSED UP WORLD WE LIVE IN. Amen

DOUGLAS BICKFORD
AMERICAN INDIAN
xxx-xxx-xxxx
All the wrath and HELL are LIES from the BIBLE, torah and koran. There is NO HELL from GOD and there is NO WRATH. RELIGIONS use THESE FOR US TO BE IN FEAR so they CAN CONTROL US ie GIVE THIS RELIGION aND that RELIGION MONEY! Which IS WHAT ALL RELIGIONS WANT! Their MONEY is THEIR GOD! g=GOLD o=OIL D=diamonds which is PRINTED ON THE US DOLLAR! IT DOES NOT MEAN CREATOR!

LOL, he's somewhat confused. But that one got bad enough I had to report it to authorities.

It cracks me up sometimes because they like that catch phrase, What Would Jesus Do?

LOL, I don't think Jesus would be threatening people with ripping their fingernails out just because she won't let you spam the forums with earthquake messages. :lmao2:


They can be amusing though in their own way.


Lady Mod

[Smurf-Herder]

LOL, "Mr. Muscle Born again guy". You do have a way with words.

Bad enough she left you but then she comes back in the name of Jesus to rub salt in the wound. Geez!

We've had some similar experiences in the spiritual realm. I just didn't make mine public. I've learned from the forum I moderate, that when I did, some whacko bible thumper would dog me to death. There's been 4 in the last two years.

The first some crazy woman, username Sugar something. It started out she was harassing a really nice guy who lived in Israel and is a Jewish scholar. I guess she was determined she was going to change him into a christian and it finally got so bad, her flooding his threads and bugging him that I finally stepped in and told her to knock it off. I think I had to ban her for a week to let her know I meant business. She was good after she came back and it went well for awhile and then in one thread I was explaining to a friend of mine how to go within and be still. Basically meditation. I mentioned about hearing the still small voice and OMG. Suddenly I was hearing devils and I become her target. LOL. Eventually we had to have her IP blocked. And the nephew's too that joined her.

There there was Yogi. The man of a million names. I think he had a personality disorder. He was definitely not right in the head.

Then Tony and his wife. The infamous "Jack Chick" couple. They went from deep religion to Nazi worship. He was BVR who Linkster or Bill finally banned. That was mild compared to the Jack Chick phase on scam.

And last but certainly not least, Douglas Bickford. Mr. Bush is causing Big ass earthquakes and Lady Mod is covering it up. And Lady Mod is a terrorist and should have her fingernails ripped out slowly one by one, I'm going to hunt you down bitch.........



LOL, he's somewhat confused. But that one got bad enough I had to report it to authorities.

It cracks me up sometimes because they like that catch phrase, What Would Jesus Do?

LOL, I don't think Jesus would be threatening people with ripping their fingernails out just because she won't let you spam the forums with earthquake messages. :lmao2:


They can be amusing though in their own way.


Lady Mod

Yeah, that was part of my problem. I believed; but I also believed you don't hit people over the head with it. You just turn people off. It seemed better to just let people ask you questions in their own time, out of curiosity. I was in the middle of people playing Holy Ghost, trying to always tell me what to do, like getting brownie points for God; and Catholics hating me for just existing, like I was an insult to the Virgin Mary, or something. And all the women only wanting to date men who wanted to be pastors; like it was some kind of sexual turn-on.

I got totally disillusioned after 10 years. The only person I ended up respecting was the pastor of our church. A former gunnery sargeant on Hambuger Hill in Vietnam and ex-Martial Arts instructor. A hell of a guy, you could just pal around with. The thing I was there for was the kids. I made learning fun, trying to relate basic principles in a way they could relate to. The kids loved me and I loved working with them. But the adults tended to make me feel I was never holy enough.

In particular my boss at the time, who was a member. He'd be all sweet and submissive in church, but a real asshole in work. Swearing, throwing things, etc. And everybody knew he was a Christian at work, so it reflected on all Christians and turned them all off. It was announced that he was under consideration to be a new deacon - he had everybody snookered. If anybody had any reason to think he shouldn't be one, they should talk to the pastor and deacons about it. After a while my conscience was getting to me; and I decided to confide in a deacon I knew as a friend. He said we needed to sit down and talk with him and the pastor about it. I feared for my job and said whoa! Nevermind, I'm sure he'll be okay. At a later point, the pastor came to me about it; rationalizing that the guy had problems but was improving, and that everybody hates their boss. About a week later I was laid-off, after 7 years, along with a new guy nobody liked; because business "was so slow". Right before I was to get married. Finding out a week later they were so busy everybody was getting overtime. A couple months later, after this guy became deacon, it was time for Youth Group to start back up. And I had the pastor tell me that this guy was going to be the new Youth Group leader, with me under him. I bit my tongue and went with the flow, only to see him drag Youth Group down to the level of playing games. All the work I had put 10 years into was for nothing; formulating fun activites, coordinated with Sunday School lessons, building a reinforced theme; to round out their understanding of a given concept. I secretly went back to my old life, and fell away; because of Church Politics.

The one important thing I felt God had led me to do, working with the kids, was taken away from me; by someone who was a total phoney. With total support from the people I trusted, because they were so easily fooled. And it wasn't as much my losing the Youth Group; but the kids not getting anything out of it after that, beyond Youth Group degenerating into a glorified babysitting service.

[Yirmeyahu]

Well, the first Christians were Jews, being physical descendents of Judah. But then there's the thing LadyMod mentioned. Romans Chapter 11.

[disrupter]

i wonder if there will ever be a science of spirituality?

Where the psychological, spiritual apparent needs, operations & responses of people would be studied & addressed.

No presumptive dogma, but a genuine, open, analytical exploration of it & its mechanisms & ramifications.

Is science a little obsessively anti-spiritual? I understand for bookkeeping purposes that may make sense, but many of the greatest thinkers, Mathematicians & Scientists were very spiritually, mystically driven. Much of early science bordered on the occult or even grew out of it.

Where we don't attribute structure that isn't there, but understand that it as an essential part of our makeups.

I am not sure how you might go about it though. there would have to be some kind of categorizations, like emotional states, kinetic responses, what kind of things changed or stimulated them. What kind of world view was most productive & under what circumstances.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

i wonder if there will ever be a science of spirituality?

Where the psychological, spiritual apparent needs, operations & responses of people would be studied & addressed.

No presumptive dogma, but a genuine, open, analytical exploration of it & its mechanisms & ramifications.

Is science a little obsessively anti-spiritual? I understand for bookkeeping purposes that may make sense, but many of the greatest thinkers, Mathematicians & Scientists were very spiritually, mystically driven. Much of early science bordered on the occult or even grew out of it.

Where we don't attribute structure that isn't there, but understand that it as an essential part of our makeups.

I am not sure how you might go about it though. there would have to be some kind of categorizations, like emotional states, kinetic responses, what kind of things changed or stimulated them. What kind of world view was most productive & under what circumstances.

I'm not sure either but when we entered the DARK ages we only partly came back out.

And now religion seems to go to great lengths do make science into religion and science goes to great lengths to distance itself from religion.


Lady Mod

[moonman]

Christians are Jews.

....... according to the Bible.

;)

<Incoming Newsflash>

Members of the three major monotheist religions, primarily Arabs, Christians & Jews, are all children of Abraham, according to the Bible.

Just goes to show the hazards of inbreeding.

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm not sure either but when we entered the DARK ages we only partly came back out.

And now religion seems to go to great lengths do make science into religion and science goes to great lengths to distance itself from religion.


Lady Mod

If both sides weren't so dogmatic in their traditional stances, they'd be able to reconcile the differences.

Example: Creationists don't consider that the Adam and Eve story could actually be an allegory passed down through the ages, symbolizing the recovery of the planet from a mass extinction event. This is an element of the "Gap Theory" in Genesis. Although chronologically inaccurate, it would reconcile the controversy over the age of the Earth.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

<Incoming Newsflash>

Members of the three major monotheist religions, primarily Arabs, Christians & Jews, are all children of Abraham, according to the Bible.

Just goes to show the hazards of inbreeding.

LOL


And all children of Adam and Eve if you take the bible at face value. We're all just one big happy disfunctional family.

:winkwink:

[moonman]

Isn't the Bible, at least the Old Testament or first book, basically a rewrite upon rewrite of some old Sanskrit writings some guys found laying around?

The bottom line about all religion is, "One party gives money and obedience in the present to ensure God (party of the 2nd part) will pay it back in the next or after life."

I'm not sayin' I don't buy into the story. I just don't buy into the oral contract that religion is selling.

[Smurf-Herder]

Isn't the Bible, at least the Old Testament or first book, basically a rewrite upon rewrite of some old Sanskrit writings some guys found laying around?



The first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, are known as the Torah (or Pentatuk); attributed to Moses. Although the original authorship is controversial. The word itself literally means laws or instructions. All we know for sure is, they are the basis for everything that follows.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

The first five books of the Bible, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, are known as the Torah (or Pentatuk); attributed to Moses. Although the original authorship is controversial. The word itself literally means laws or instructions. All we know for sure is, they are the basis for everything that follows.

And Genesis had 3 authors. One being a woman. LOL.


Lady Mod

[Yirmeyahu]

Members of the three major monotheist religions, primarily Arabs, Christians & Jews, are all children of Abraham, according to the Bible.

Just goes to show the hazards of inbreeding.

LOL! That's funny. Reminds me of that Far Side where the naked people are fleeing over the hill away from the giant broken jar and a voice from the clouds is heard saying "Oops!"

[moonman]

And Genesis had 3 authors. One being a woman. LOL.


Lady Mod

Back in the day when they wrote in sanskrit some folks with time on their hands and perhaps a rather deep bowl filled with hashish, started musing on the ancient questions, who are we and why are we here. What we know as the Torah, Koran and the Bible are embellishments of early notions written in sanskrit. I forget who they were but History Channel did a multipart series on the origins of the three montheistic religions.

Stories change over time. One example is the Immaculate Conception that didn't become doctrine until the mid 1800's IIRC. Another is the Rapture which you won't find in the Bible but there's folks who claim it's in there.

[Smurf-Herder]

Back in the day when they wrote in sanskrit some folks with time on their hands and perhaps a rather deep bowl filled with hashish, started musing on the ancient questions, who are we and why are we here. What we know as the Torah, Koran and the Bible are embellishments of early notions written in sanskrit. I forget who they were but History Channel did a multipart series on the origins of the three montheistic religions.

Stories change over time. One example is the Immaculate Conception that didn't become doctrine until the mid 1800's IIRC. Another is the Rapture which you won't find in the Bible but there's folks who claim it's in there.

The Rapture theory is anly about 150 years old. And I think belief in that will actually result in another prophecy being fulfilled. I fear a lot of Christians will be very surprised when they see things going down and they're still here for it.

[Smurf-Herder]

And Genesis had 3 authors. One being a woman. LOL.


Lady Mod

Are you serious on that?

Either I never heard that, or I forgot more than I thought in 14 years.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Are you serious on that?

Either I never heard that, or I forgot more than I thought in 14 years.

You aren't alone. It was assumed for a very very long time that Moses was had written the five books of the Torah, but a majority of scholars and theologians acceptthat the Five Books of Moses were transmitted orally for centuries before being set down on scrolls beginning some time after 1000 BC- about the time of King David and Solomon are traditionally thougth to have ruled Israel. The writing process was not completed until about 400BC.

And eleventh century scholar pointed out that the list of kings mentioned in the Torah lived long after Moses died, and he was called "Isaac the Blunderer" and his books were burned.

A lot of scholars suffered a like fate by the Roman Catholic Church. But as generations of scholars pursued the mystery of who wrote the 1st five books of the bible, if became clearer that Moses was not the books' author. Mounting evidence that the books attributed to Moses were composed at very different historical times. To many serious scholars, it seems apparent that more than one author was at work. Nowadays, they don't get burned for heresy, LOL, thank goodness.

There are still many literalist who faithfully assert that the Bible is the "Word of God" dictated verbatim to "divinely chosen" individuals. (We've ALL met at least a few of them. ;) ) Most scholars now agree that there were at least 4-5 main authors, or groups of authors, of the Hebrew scriptures.

The idea is widely accepted and taught by leading religious schools, including the divinity schools at Harvard and Yale, the Union Theological Seminary, and both the Jewish Theological Seminary and the Hebrew Union College. The precise identity of who wrote these books is unsolved, probaby unsolvable but the principal authors are identified by five letters of the alphabet; J, E, D, P, and R.

The author "J" is the oldest and most celebrated and the author Harold Bloom in "The Book of J" argued that the Bibel's J was actually a woman. Many other scholars dismiss Blooms' theory, but it remains a mystery that may never be resolved. She lived sometime between 950 - 750 BC.

J is the Hebrew Bibles best storyteller, more interesting, more humorous, and more human that the others. J is responsible for the most folkloric version of the two Creation accounts, beginning in Genesis 2. J is also responsible for the "Song of Deborah".

"E" comes next. His writing came sometime between 850 - 800 BC nad most scholars agree that his contribution begins with the story of Abraham in Genesis 12.

"P" , known as the "priestly author" contributions include some of the most familiar words in western civilization - "In The Beginning." the Creation account in Genesis 1 as well as the first version of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20: 1-17).

P's contributions was probably written sometime between 550 - 500 BC. P is responsible for nearly all of Leviticus.

Three authors or groups of authors and the oldest may have been a woman. I read it in some books but I did find you something online about it. http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/genesis.htm Though he refers to "J" as a "he" but I prefer thinking "J" was female just because it's so irreverant and bugs people.

:D

Poetic justice if you ask me. LOL.

Lady Mod

[Smurf-Herder]

You aren't alone. It was assumed for a very very long time that Moses was had written the five books of the Torah, but a majority of scholars and theologians acceptthat the Five Books of Moses were transmitted orally for centuries before being set down on scrolls beginning some time after 1000 BC- about the time of King David and Solomon are traditionally thougth to have ruled Israel. The writing process was not completed until about 400BC.

And eleventh century scholar pointed out that the list of kings mentioned in the Torah lived long after Moses died, and he was called "Isaac the Blunderer" and his books were burned.

A lot of scholars suffered a like fate by the Roman Catholic Church. But as generations of scholars pursued the mystery of who wrote the 1st five books of the bible, if became clearer that Moses was not the books' author. Mounting evidence that the books attributed to Moses were composed at very different historical times. To many serious scholars, it seems apparent that more than one author was at work. Nowadays, they don't get burned for heresy, LOL, thank goodness.

There are still many literalist who faithfully assert that the Bible is the "Word of God" dictated verbatim to "divinely chosen" individuals. (We've ALL met at least a few of them. ;) ) Most scholars now agree that there were at least 4-5 main authors, or groups of authors, of the Hebrew scriptures.

The idea is widely accepted and taught by leading religious schools, including the divinity schools at Harvard and Yale, the Union Theological Seminary, and both the Jewish Theological Seminary and the Hebrew Union College. The precise identity of who wrote these books is unsolved, probaby unsolvable but the principal authors are identified by five letters of the alphabet; J, E, D, P, and R.

The author "J" is the oldest and most celebrated and the author Harold Bloom in "The Book of J" argued that the Bibel's J was actually a woman. Many other scholars dismiss Blooms' theory, but it remains a mystery that may never be resolved. She lived sometime between 950 - 750 BC.

J is the Hebrew Bibles best storyteller, more interesting, more humorous, and more human that the others. J is responsible for the most folkloric version of the two Creation accounts, beginning in Genesis 2. J is also responsible for the "Song of Deborah".

"E" comes next. His writing came sometime between 850 - 800 BC nad most scholars agree that his contribution begins with the story of Abraham in Genesis 12.

"P" , known as the "priestly author" contributions include some of the most familiar words in western civilization - "In The Beginning." the Creation account in Genesis 1 as well as the first version of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20: 1-17).

P's contributions was probably written sometime between 550 - 500 BC. P is responsible for nearly all of Leviticus.

Three authors or groups of authors and the oldest may have been a woman. I read it in some books but I did find you something online about it. http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/genesis.htm Though he refers to "J" as a "he" but I prefer thinking "J" was female just because it's so irreverant and bugs people.

:D

Poetic justice if you ask me. LOL.

Lady Mod

I knew that Moses wasn't the original author of the five. But I hadn't known that there had been such detail in the study of it all. It wasn't something I had studied.

Thanks.

[moonman]

The Rapture theory is anly about 150 years old. And I think belief in that will actually result in another prophecy being fulfilled. I fear a lot of Christians will be very surprised when they see things going down and they're still here for it.

Exactly why my next business venture is Rapture Insurance. Of course we know you'll be raptured Smurf but what about your loved ones? Will you leave them behind unprotected?

[disrupter]

Imagine if all the energy that goes into parsing, microparsing, picoparsing of religious texts was spent on math, logic, science, or creative technology?

We might even have become an intelligent species by now.

Instead religious vitriol is a large component of 90% of wars.

[Smurf-Herder]

Exactly why my next business venture is Rapture Insurance. Of course we know you'll be raptured Smurf but what about your loved ones? Will you leave them behind unprotected?

I believe the pre-trib rapture is a misinterpretation; a theory only started around 150 years ago. And if it is true, I won't be among them; and a lot of people who believe they are Christians will be sadly disappointed.

[Yirmeyahu]

That's right. This notion of the "rapture" has no basis in Scripture.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

That's right. This notion of the "rapture" has no basis in Scripture.

That's a relief. At least we won't have all those planes, trains and cars going out of control when it happened.

LOL. I always did wonder just how the Anti-Christ was going to come up with a plausible explanation for it. The best I could think of was that all that was going to be left behind were going to be the sheeple who never questioned what was done in the first place.

Lady Mod

[Yirmeyahu]

Lady Mod, I fear very much that a great number of Christians actually welcome things to come on the basis that it means, in their paradigm, that the Messiah will return sooner. I've seen Christians get excited over horrible events because they read it as a sign that "Christ is coming soon!" And of course, there's that element of apathy there. Christians do nothing to prevent horrible things from occurring that they have power over because they think "it is written" and that by actually taking a stance against evil they are "fighting the will of God".

It's back-assward logic, but I've seen it enough times that it frightens me greatly.

[moonman]

Lady Mod, I fear very much that a great number of Christians actually welcome things to come on the basis that it means, in their paradigm, that the Messiah will return sooner. I've seen Christians get excited over horrible events because they read it as a sign that "Christ is coming soon!" And of course, there's that element of apathy there. Christians do nothing to prevent horrible things from occurring that they have power over because they think "it is written" and that by actually taking a stance against evil they are "fighting the will of God".

It's back-assward logic, but I've seen it enough times that it frightens me greatly.

The same is true of Jewish and Moslem extremists as the Tanakh & Koran also purport similar prophecy. Does Jewish and Moslem "back-assward" logic not frighten equally greatly. Just curious.

[Yirmeyahu]

The same is true of Jewish and Moslem extremists as the Tanakh & Koran also purport similar prophecy. Does Jewish and Moslem "back-assward" logic not frighten equally greatly. Just curious.

No. Certainly, as with Christianity, there is a great deal of apostasy. It certainly frightens me that so many manipulate and deceive and attempt to justify criminal lawlessness through Islam, which is just a fraud.

But I don't have any direct experience dealing with Muslims who have the same attitude as many Christians I've talked to. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't comment upon it any further as I have no direct experience with it.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Lady Mod, I fear very much that a great number of Christians actually welcome things to come on the basis that it means, in their paradigm, that the Messiah will return sooner. I've seen Christians get excited over horrible events because they read it as a sign that "Christ is coming soon!" And of course, there's that element of apathy there. Christians do nothing to prevent horrible things from occurring that they have power over because they think "it is written" and that by actually taking a stance against evil they are "fighting the will of God".

It's back-assward logic, but I've seen it enough times that it frightens me greatly.

I've seen it too. It's not just apathy, it's lack of understanding of scripture. If they read and understood what the bible says about Christian behavior, they would all rent their clothes and shave their heads in shame. Because they have made the churches into dens of thieves and neglected to tend the sheep. They preach "feel good" sermons from the pulpit and have allowed Satan into their midsts.

If Yashua is coming, he's not going to be happy with them. Lukewarm Christians will not greet a happy savior according to scripture.

Lady Mod

[Yirmeyahu]

Yes, Yashua would be most unpleased with the conduct of many--I daresay "most"--Christians.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Yes, Yashua would be most unpleased with the conduct of many--I daresay "most"--Christians.

Go ahead and dare it, they only threaten you with life and limb when you do. LOL.


Lady Mod

[Yirmeyahu]

I'll go to hell for sure.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I'll go to hell for sure.

Well you might have trouble finding it. Apparently no one is sure where it's located.

:D

[disrupter]

Please Pardon me if my whole head & focus is in the game of REALITY.

If half one's focus is on a completely hypothetical, mythical afterlife how can you be paying full attention to reality?

Like playing with half a deck if you ask me.

Is the reality of your children not worth your whole focus?

Shouldn't you let some God [if any] be the judge of how committed you were to life? Show god &/or the universe life is a treasure which gets your whole focus & devotion.

If your's is not the god of life is it really the god you want?

I love good life, and nothing can compare.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Please Pardon me if my whole head & focus is in the game of REALITY.

If half one's focus is on a completely hypothetical, mythical afterlife how can you be paying full attention to reality?

Like playing with half a deck if you ask me.

Is the reality of your children not worth your whole focus?

Shouldn't you let some God [if any] be the judge of how committed you were to life? Show god &/or the universe life is a treasure which gets your whole focus & devotion.

If your's is not the god of life is it really the god you want?

I love good life, and nothing can compare.


The afterlife was only supposed to be something to look forward to, not something to work towards. Joy in the moment, doing good today in your own life and the lives of others was what was supposed to be on the daily menu for christianity.

I knew a pastor once who said, if Christians would focus on doing just the things that the bible tells them to do they would never have the time to do the things they aren't supposed to do.

That kind of phylosophy works for anyone. Religious or not.


Lady Mod

[disrupter]

Probably true, but a lot of religious people use the believed afterlife as an excuse to write off reality.

Some people believe the rapture is soon, so taking care of the planet doesn't matter according to them. That kind of thinking is a kind of psychosis imo. An excuse for irresponsibility.

if it really is in god's hands then it should free a person up to focus on the here & now & do good things. Although i am not encouraging recklessness, cogent constructive works seem most positive to me, but of course i am just an atheist/agnostic. I guess religious people have to find their own ways, but i don't have a lot of reservations about sending the irresponsible ones home to jesus, on the lead projectile express.

If their whole focus is the afterlife, i say lets send them there right away.

[Smurf-Herder]

That's a relief. At least we won't have all those planes, trains and cars going out of control when it happened.

LOL. I always did wonder just how the Anti-Christ was going to come up with a plausible explanation for it. The best I could think of was that all that was going to be left behind were going to be the sheeple who never questioned what was done in the first place.

Lady Mod

I keep remembering verses in relation to:

a strong delusion

believing a lie

and a falling away

If all the sheeple Christians are waiting for the Rapture, and end up seeing Tribulation events they've been taught they'd be saved from, what do you think it would do to their faith?

Judgement begins at the House of God. :oldman:

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I keep remembering verses in relation to:

a strong delusion

believing a lie

and a falling away

If all the sheeple Christians are waiting for the Rapture, and end up seeing Tribulation events they've been taught they'd be saved from, what do you think it would do to their faith?

Judgement begins at the House of God. :oldman:


Mass suicide?


I think they would probably believe they are one of the 177 thousand? If they read the "Left Behind" books they will get saved and then work to get others saved during the 7 year tribulation.

After 7 years, I hesitate to think how big the psyche wards are gonna have to be.


Lady Mod

[Smurf-Herder]

Mass suicide?


I think they would probably believe they are one of the 177 thousand? If they read the "Left Behind" books they will get saved and then work to get others saved during the 7 year tribulation.

After 7 years, I hesitate to think how big the psyche wards are gonna have to be.


Lady Mod


That was 144,000 btw.

I don't think they'll have it figured out; as to when things started, who exactly the Anti-Christ is, etc. I think they'll be all screwed up. And what would the Catholics do if Rome were hit with missiles? The Baptists all being left behind, and the Catholics losing the Vatican. That would be a one-two punch, eh?

[LadyMod at scam.com]

That was 144,000 btw.

I don't think they'll have it figured out; as to when things started, who exactly the Anti-Christ is, etc. I think they'll be all screwed up. And what would the Catholics do if Rome were hit with missiles? The Baptists all being left behind, and the Catholics losing the Vatican. That would be a one-two punch, eh?

It is isn't it? LOL. I have 177 on my mind still from work. So what 33,000 more "chosen people" in the grand scheme of things?

No Catholics or Baptists? :eek: What does that leave us with? We still have Jews and Scientologists. :scared1:

:lmao2:

[moonman]

I don't know who the anti-Christ is but if the prophecy be true I'm pretty sure Dubya is the warm up act.

[Jesse Hemingway]

Christians are Jews.

....... according to the Bible.

;)

If it weren’t for Queen James you would not have a bible to read.

First loves
When Jamie was a lean and lanky Scots lad of fourteen, he fell in love with the elegant French courtier Esmé Stuart—Seigneur d'Aubigny, Earl of Lennox. Or, as the Scots chronicler Moysie would delicately put it, "he conceived an inward affection to the Lord d'Aubigne, and entered in great familiarity and quiet purposes with him." A more fervid clergyman put the matter more bluntly: "the Duke of Lennox went about to draw the King to carnal lust." As with the less royal class of men and boys, I suspect that the princely lad seduced the courtier.
Be this as it may, Lennox, who according to a contemporary description was a man "of comely proportion, civil behaviour, red-bearded, and honest in conversation," brought charming French manners, music, and gaiety into James's austere Highland surroundings. Whether Lennox loved James for himself or for his royal patronage we do not know, though inevitably there is some fawning in all regal love affairs. Like Sir Francis Bacon much later, Lennox rose to wealth and power and nobility, and inevitably aroused the jealousy of others who coveted his position. A conspiracy of nobles was formed against him, and in 1582 James was abducted by his would-be protectors, Lennox was ordered to leave the country on pain of death, and the two lovers never saw each other again.

In the meantime, James at least had been able to arrange for George Gordon, sixth Earl of Huntley to marry Lennox's sister Lady Henrietta Stuart in 1588. This marriage of convenience was convenient because it made it easier for Huntley to be elevated to the rank of Captain of the Guard, and he proceeded to lodge himself in the King's own chamber (as bodyguard, of course). Another Scots chronicler, Fowler, commenting on this irregular barracking, concluded that "it is thought that this King is too much carried by young men that lie in his chamber and are his minions."

http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/jamesi.htm

Thank a Homosexual for Your Bible (Actually more likely bisexual which is common in men and women.

Any serious biography of King James I of England will talk about his homosexuality. He was completely open about it. Sources include the reports of foreign ambassadors, such as the Spanish ambassador writing home to say "the king goes to Newcastle today, much as another monarch went to Capri." Of course, you have to know about Tiberias at Capri to understand
that.

The printing of the King James Bible was sponsored by King James I of England. Until the printing of this version the scriptures were ". . . practically unknown either to clergy or to people." (1) In 1522 William Tindale, an Oxford scholar, considered translating the Bible into English. He met resistance and was exiled to Germany.

In 1525 the New Testament, partially translated by Tindale, was printed in Cologne. During the same year 6,000 copies of the Testament were smuggled into England. By the authority of the church they were publicly burned. The Bible was the first book ever to be banned in England. (2) Driven from town to town William Tindale was eventually strangled in 1536 and his body burned.

Queen Mary, the mother of James I and a devout Catholic, had commanded "that no manners of persons presume to bring into this real any messages., books, paper, etc. in the name of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, Erasmus, Tyndale etc. or any like books containing false doctrines against the Catholic faith".

http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/kingjames.html

A Queer King Of England
At school, we learnt about King James I of England. We were told about his supervision of the King James' Authorised Version of the Bible, published in 1611. We read his pamphlet against smoking and another one about witches. This may have encouraged Shakespeare to write "Macbeth," at a time when King James was patron of the acting company at the Globe Theatre, where the play was first staged. What nobody told us was that, behind King James's back, his courtiers used to call him "Queen James."
When James was my age, he wrote a letter to his lover George Villiers, who was 31 years old:
"My only sweet and dear child- Notwithstanding of your desiring me not to write yesterday, I cannot content myself without sending you this present, praying God that I may have a joyful and comfortable meeting with you and that we may make at this Christmas a new marriage, ever to be kept hereafter. For, God so love me, as I desire only to live in this world for your sake and that I had as rather live banished in any part of the earth with you, than I live a sorrowful widow's life without you. And so God bless you, my sweet child and wife and grant that ye may ever be a comfort to your dear dad and husband - James. "