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LadyMod at scam.com
10-31-2007, 02:39 PM
Bush Health-Bill Veto Leaves Needy Kids Stranded: Gene Sperling (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_sperling&sid=a5rtBKMociyc)
By Gene Sperling

Oct. 31 (Bloomberg) -- I don't usually think of children's health and John McEnroe rants together. Yet, when I heard that President George W. Bush was threatening to veto a second bill to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to cover an additional 4 million children, it was hard not to think of the 1980s tennis player screaming, ``You cannot be serious!''

It was already inexcusable that Bush had chosen to veto the first bill. It had a strong bipartisan majority of 68-31 in the Senate and would have provided health coverage to another 3.8 million children for the modest additional cost of $35 billion over five years. A CBS News Poll found that 81 percent of Americans supported it.

The Bush White House stretched to find a dark lining in this silver cloud. Even though the bill was reaching children from mostly working poor and modest-income families, Bush repeatedly used his bully pulpit to give the false impression that the bill would be directed to childless adults and children from homes making $83,000 a year.

He has made these complaints at least 10 times since the end of September. Never mind that 84 percent of the new children covered were from families with incomes already low enough to be eligible for SCHIP or Medicaid; never mind that top health economists called it especially efficient, that the tiny number of childless adults now covered by the program would become ineligible within two years. And never mind that Republican Senator Orrin Hatch said the ``president has had pretty poor advice on this'' and that Hatch could ``answer every objection that they've made.'' The president still vetoed the bill.

Bill Amendments

While the Bush criticisms were weak, the members of Congress pushing the bill amended it to make crystal clear that only modest-income families would be allowed to apply by capping eligibility at three times the poverty level: about $61,000 a year for a family of four. They also banned the administration from allowing waivers above that amount.

And even though 3.2 million of the 3.8 million children covered under the initial draft law were from families with incomes below the current income limits, the new bill added another 200,000 low-income children to its mix. And to appease those who were so vehemently against adult coverage, the new bill phases out coverage for childless adults in one year, instead of two, as the previous bill had done.

Even Senator Chuck Grassley, the lead Republican on the Finance Committee, issued a release: ``The bill gets rid of the bad policies in the current SCHIP law, which will continue by way of the program extensions that are inevitable without new legislation. This bill offered a responsible way for Congress to do its job of renewing a program that states have made a success for lower-income working families.''

Veto Threats

Amazingly, even with Congress bending over backward to address the spurious complaints of Bush, administration officials rushed out yet another veto threat. Ignoring the support of Republicans such as Hatch and Grassley, the government sought to imply that the Democratic leadership didn't go far enough in the revised bill.

Even Hatch responded to this claim in the Salt Lake Tribune: ``I don't believe the administration has dealt totally fairly on this issue. I just think the House leadership took the position `Hey, we don't want to give them more time to obfuscate the bill.'''

So what is really driving the Bush White House? All you need to know about why the president has twice opposed this bill was laid bare by Health and Human Services Department Secretary Mike Leavitt's new offer to Congress. He stated that the Bush administration might be willing to consider a $20 billion compromise as it was halfway between the government's $5 billion increase and the bill's $35 billion.

No Deficit Increase

It is inexplicable that the administration would make costs the primary issue when you consider the SCHIP expansion -- unlike almost every Bush initiative -- doesn't increase the deficit.

Bush has been willing to sign trillions of dollars of tax cuts in 2001 and 2003; a $720 billion Medicare prescription drug entitlement, and another $1 trillion on the war in Iraq, by increasing the national debt and without a dime of offsets. He has also done nothing to stop the tripling of special-interest projects funded under Republican congressional leadership.

Yet, when a bipartisan bill provides health insurance to 4 million children and is paid for dime-for-dime, this is when the president chooses to say no -- twice.

As this new bill responds to the administration's major complaints and doesn't widen the deficit by a penny, the only plausible explanation is that the Bush White House opposes health-care funding for vulnerable children.

The administration's ``split the babies in half'' offer would mean no health insurance -- meaning less preventative care, fewer check-ups and lesser-quality treatment -- for millions of children who would be covered over the years under the current bill. To borrow from McEnroe, I really wish they weren't serious.

.

Cat slave
10-31-2007, 03:50 PM
No kids are going without medical care unless the parental units are too lazy or
too stupid to get it.

LadyMod at scam.com
10-31-2007, 03:50 PM
No kids are going without medical care unless the parental units are too lazy or
too stupid to get it.

I hope you never have to eat those words.


Lady Mod

Cat slave
10-31-2007, 04:04 PM
I wont. My "kids" are grown and what I said is the truth.

There are public health depts, Medicaid, Medicare and all sorts of programs to
serve kids. I know because of what I learned when managing medical offices.

Kids will not do without. But it does actually require the parental units to
make some effort to connect the dots.

Moby
10-31-2007, 05:05 PM
No kids are going without medical care unless the parental units are too lazy or
too stupid to get it.
I found it interesting that on this board I am the only one that needs to pay for his family's health care without help of another organization.

I've read the laws in this state and it's very clear. My insurance company can NOT cancel me if someone in my family comes down with a chronic disease but they can raise my rates to $1,000,000 a month.

Then if I cancel all other companies can deny me coverage.

I could very easily end up in a situation where I simply can't get coverage. That has happened to many people.

radioguy
10-31-2007, 05:40 PM
You know what you don't see?

You don't see stories about children dying in America because they had no health care coverage. That's because they aren't.

This SCHIP issue should be renamed BULL-CHIP.

asroc
10-31-2007, 05:50 PM
haha what, there are tons of stories like that.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Start there if you want more than anecdotal cases.

radioguy
10-31-2007, 06:19 PM
haha what, there are tons of stories like that.

http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml

Start there if you want more than anecdotal cases.

Could you point out to me where they say that children are dying in America because of their lack of insurance. I looked and didn't see any such statistic.

LadyMod at scam.com
10-31-2007, 06:22 PM
Could you point out to me where they say that children are dying in America because of their lack of insurance. I looked and didn't see any such statistic.

It's like those civilian deaths in Iraq. They don't count them.


Lady Mod

asroc
10-31-2007, 06:27 PM
Could you point out to me where they say that children are dying in America because of their lack of insurance. I looked and didn't see any such statistic.

Well, put like that it's an absurd request. You know that children get diseases, and you know that some diseases are terminal. It's a fact. The point of contention is whether they should be covered or not, yes?

Can you not be deliberately obtuse about it?

The first story I found when I bothered to do the search for you, was this: a boy dying from a toothache for lack of dental coverage.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116_pf.html

Why is it on this issue you choose to only respond to anecdotal, emotional pleas and not the numbers?

radioguy
10-31-2007, 06:38 PM
Health care for every American is not a "right". It isn't in the constitution.

Where is it written that Americans with good incomes, are required to provide health insurance for those that don't make as much money? That is socialism... Income redistribution... We are not a socialist society.

The only reason this issue should be discussed is if children are dying based on the fact they don't have insurance, and are denied medical treatment because of this. That isn't the case Ian. Children are not suffering because of this.

This issue is an attempt to bring this country closer and closer to socialism, and that's bullshit.

asroc
10-31-2007, 06:43 PM
Social Security isn't a "right" either, but it and the New Deal completely modernized the country and created the middle class. I like social contracts where if we all agree to pitch in, it's there for us when we need it.

It's like paying taxes for your fire department, or would you rather be served with a thousand dollar bill as you watch the cinders of your house being put out?

How about privatizing the police? Would you like a bill when they respond to an assault on your person/property?

Why is health taking a backseat? It's only our very lives.

Are you going libertarian on me?

Moby
10-31-2007, 06:44 PM
This issue is an attempt to bring this country closer and closer to socialism, and that's bullshit.
So would you vote for Romney?

Whiplash
10-31-2007, 06:55 PM
I think there are several reasons why the legislation is being vetoed. One is Bush's desire to avoid paying health care for those that could pay it on their own, but take a look at how the legislation plans to fund the increased spending. Cigarettes will be taxed from a current rate of 39cents to a new rate of $1. Additionally, cigars will be taxed from a current rate of 4.8 cents per cigar up to a maximum $5 per cigar. The cigar industry is lobbying feverishly for another veto, arguing it will destroy the industry and cause approximately 750,000 people in Central America to become unemployed. Food for thought...

UserName
10-31-2007, 06:56 PM
Health care for every American is not a "right". It isn't in the constitution.

Where is it written that Americans with good incomes, are required to provide health insurance for those that don't make as much money? That is socialism... Income redistribution... We are not a socialist society.

I will agree in part that socialism is liberal. More people (preferably everyone) have some say in how the economy works. Democracy is liberal. More people (preferably everyone) have some say in how the government works.

But Communism is conservative. Fewer and fewer people (preferably just the Party Secretary) have any say in how the economy works. Republicans are conservative. Fewer and fewer people (preferably just people controlling the Party figurehead) have any say in how the government works. The conservatives in the US are in the same position as the communists in the 30s, and for the same reason: Their revolutions failed spectacularly but they refuse to admit what went wrong.

Little Red Dog
10-31-2007, 06:59 PM
This issue is an attempt to bring this country closer and closer to socialism, and that's bullshit.

No, THAT is bullshit.

All this crap about how we're all going to be paying through the nose in taxes to support the sick children of "lazy parents". ONE MONTH of Iraq would pay for ONE YEAR of SCHIP.

Personally, I'd rather my money go toward taking care of sick children here, than pay for making more dead children there.

asroc
10-31-2007, 07:00 PM
Good articles to dig up include:

Michael D. Kogan, Greg R. Alexander, Martha A. Teitelbaum, et al., "The Effect of Gaps in Health Insurance on Continuity of a Regular Source of Care Among Preschool Aged Children in the United States," Journal of the American Medical Association, Vol. 274, No. 18, November 8, 1995.

Mary D. Overpeck and Jonathan B. Kotch, "The Effect of U.S. Children's Access to Care on Medical Attention for Injuries," American Journal of Public Health, Vol. 85, No. 3, 1995, 402:404.

Jeffrey J. Stoddard, Robert St. Peter, and Paul Newacheck, "Health Insurance Status and Ambulatory Care for Children," New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 330, No. 20, May 19, 1994, 1421:1425.

If/when I track them down I'll url them here. I gotta go eat.

Cat slave
10-31-2007, 09:22 PM
I found it interesting that on this board I am the only one that needs to pay for his family's health care without help of another organization.

I've read the laws in this state and it's very clear. My insurance company can NOT cancel me if someone in my family comes down with a chronic disease but they can raise my rates to $1,000,000 a month.

Then if I cancel all other companies can deny me coverage.

I could very easily end up in a situation where I simply can't get coverage. That has happened to many people.

Yes, pre existing conditions. Instead of plunging the nation into a socialist
state why dont we figure out what is wrong with the system we have and
fix it? Fraud would be a good starting point!

Cat slave
10-31-2007, 09:24 PM
....and still, kids arent denied health care anywhere.