Get your whole paycheck, no tax withheld!

[boortzland]

Hi, folks. Tommy invited me here. I'm just a regular Joe with a passion for a new plan that I think will go a long way to freeing the US economy, and free its citizens from an over-opressive federal tax system.

The Fair Tax Plan introduced by Ga Congressman John Linder will replace the current income tax with a single tax at the point of sale on new goods and services.

Currently we pay, depending on what tax bracett you are in, up to 25% tax on your income (including Social Security & Medicare). Then on top of that we pay sales tax rates from 5% and up depending on where you live. Then if you consider that you employer pays 7.65% in Social Security tax on you, THAT IS YOUR MONEY,if my math is correct we are getting close to 40% right there. On top of those, we pay excise taxes on all goods and services built into the current prices. Studies have estimated this to be 20-23%.

So even if we are REALLY CONSERVATIVE we are paying over 50% of our income to the federal government.

The FairTax is a one time tax on NEW GOODS and services at the retail level.
The rate is 23%.

Talkshow host from Atlanta Ga, Neal Boortz wrote a book called odly enough, "The Fair Tax Book". It outlines the plan in plain English for those of us who are not lawyers, to understand its intent, how it was put together, and how it will work.

This comming weekend there is a rally on the town square in Orlando Florida. They are expection in excess of 10,000 people to attend. If history is any indication it will be more than that. 5-6 years ago, I attended a "small rally" for what was being called at that time "The National Retail Sales Tax". Boortz said there was room for 500 people and was worried about filling the room. When the room was full, over 3000 people crowded the concoarse out side the meeting hall the The Cobb Galleria in Marrietta Ga. The brought TV's ouyt where we could hear what was going on.

Likewise, in May 2006, at the Gwinette Covention Center the "Fair Tax Rally" had room for 4500 people and again Neal, John Linder and others were concerned about filling the space. 2 1/2 hours before the event there wereso many people in line that the opened the doors 2 hour early. The hall filled to capacity with 90 minutes to go before the Rally. The Fire marshall shut the dooors and turned away what is estimated to be 4500-6000 more. Some of these folks tailgated and listed to the rally outside on large speakers set up by WSB AM750, Neals home station.

My point here is, the Fair tax is gaining momentum, congress IS NOTICING! We have 52 sponsors in congress now, and we are just getting warmed up.!

I invite your discussion, cudos, questions, criticism, etc. If I dont know the answers, I can get'em.

Remeber, I'm not a lawyer, a paid lobbyist, or a politician. I'm just a hard working American that would like to keep more of what I earn. I want uncle Sam out of my pocket. I blog because if I do my part and get 1 person out there curious enough to check it out for themselves, then it's one step closer to becomming a reality.

boortzland

[Bill]

Sounds great! :thumbsup:

Just so long as we end all those government handouts to people who don't like to work.

[AJ]

they should make gay people pay higher taxes

if they want to do that kind of stuff they should have to pay for all the court expenses, programs and laws that surround the gay issues

[CatsEye]

they should make gay people pay higher taxes

if they want to do that kind of stuff they should have to pay for all the court expenses, programs and laws that surround the gay issues

:lmao2: That's so homophobic it's actually making me laugh.

[Tommy]

I thought it was a bit funny also, I know its sad but it is a little funny

I cant figure out how people get like that

[SirMoby]

If consumers start saving and stop consuming then our economy will collapse and a consumption tax offers incentives to save.

The American economy is based on consumption. In the last 10 years we've out sourced most of our high tech skills, we've sent almost 3,000,000 manufacturing jobs to China and our current debt load don't allow us to invest heavily in futures technologies.

[juggernaut]

If consumers start saving and stop consuming then our economy will collapse and a consumption tax offers incentives to save.

The American economy is based on consumption. In the last 10 years we've out sourced most of our high tech skills, we've sent almost 3,000,000 manufacturing jobs to China and our current debt load don't allow us to invest heavily in futures technologies.
Agreed. You would have to many people buying things that fell off the back of a truck. You also would have to many people pinching pennies after they got over the first crazed spending wave. Taxes are not the problem with things. In fact our system would work pretty good if there were not so many politians who were stealing the $$$ or just out wasting it. In New Jersey we had a governor a couple of years back. You might have heard of him. He like to suck cock. Anyway when he came on board he made drastic cuts to the bugget. I saw him lay off a 20% work force in the state first hand. When he left we apparently had in excess of 2 billion laying around. Now here we are roughly 2 years later and the state had to shut down for almost 2 weeks cause no one was able to balance the bugget and people were talking about the state filling chapter 11.

[Maj.Stress]

If consumers start saving and stop consuming then our economy will collapse and a consumption tax offers incentives to save.

High gas prices have not stopped the American consumer. Why would such a change in taxes make anything different?

Out of necessity, people will spend money. I see such a tax change as leveling the playing field.

[Kinky Jones]

they should make gay people pay higher taxes

if they want to do that kind of stuff they should have to pay for all the court expenses, programs and laws that surround the gay issues

actually people that think like you are to blame for the expenses and what not, if you leave them alone to be free to live their lives everything would be fine but god hates fags so lets waste years of time and billions of dollars to stop two free american citizens from doing what they have every right to do :thumbsup:

[SirMoby]

High gas prices have not stopped the American consumer. Why would such a change in taxes make anything different?

Out of necessity, people will spend money. I see such a tax change as leveling the playing field.
People don't have much choice in paying high gas prices. Unless you live in a major city there isn't much chance of finding acceptable public transportation.

People will slow down on purchases of things they don't really need and our economy is based on those things. It will hurt.

This type of tax law will also make it far more difficult to track taxes. Suddenly a black market yacht looks much better to the rich guys then buying through normal taxable channels.

[boortzland]

If consumers start saving and stop consuming then our economy will collapse and a consumption tax offers incentives to save.

The American economy is based on consumption. In the last 10 years we've out sourced most of our high tech skills, we've sent almost 3,000,000 manufacturing jobs to China and our current debt load don't allow us to invest heavily in futures technologies.

Everyone talks about a black market economy. Think about this, Under the Fairtax drug dealers who buy yatchs, houses and expensive cars would be paying the tax. Illegal alliens who get paid cash will now be paying tax on groceries, cars, etc,etc. Visitors to the USA from other countries, which I've heard averages about 1.2 million at any given time would pay tax at resteraunts, when they buy retail items, hotel rooms, etc. And "THE RICH" (which everyone always worry about getting unfair tax cuts) they would pay tax on the large homes, SUV's, Sports Cars, Extravogant food and parties, Airfare to exotic locations....and on and on.

So a few people who want to find a way to no pay sales tax. The additional revenue from these afore mentioned sources will more than make up for that.

[Tommy]

I really like that part about the drug dealers and the illegals

also all the teenagers and adults that work off the books

and all the under the table cash deals that go on

how many times does a contractor offer you a deal for cash

what about small cash buisnesses like hot dog vendors, and soda machines

even the guy on the freeway selling oranges

its gonna be a lot of new money coming in !!!

I have been a huge fan of this for a long time

[boortzland]

THE FAIRTAX RALLY IS SATURDAY IN ORLANDO..IF YOU ARE IN THE AREA I RECCOMEND YOU ATTEND!

[Linkster]

I guess the only question I would have is how do you tax companies/businesses - I would love to see the oil companies have to pay that same standard rate on profits - however the total economy would collapse - just as this plan would cause, as you totally leave out the corporations from having to pay??? Did I miss a part???
While I agree that larger companies like the oil companies dont pay shit in taxes with all the breaks they get, the amount of revenue from small business, if that were no longer part of the tax structure, would also collapse this economy completely

[boortzland]

I guess the only question I would have is how do you tax companies/businesses - I would love to see the oil companies have to pay that same standard rate on profits - however the total economy would collapse - just as this plan would cause, as you totally leave out the corporations from having to pay??? Did I miss a part???
While I agree that larger companies like the oil companies dont pay shit in taxes with all the breaks they get, the amount of revenue from small business, if that were no longer part of the tax structure, would also collapse this economy completely

HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN ECONOMICS? Corporations do not pay taxes. They collect taxes from customers in the form of higher prices for goods and services. They collect them from shareholders in the form of lower dividends. And they collect them from employees in the form of stagnant wages, and less favorable benefits.

So taxing big evil corporations is like shooting yourself in the foot. It may not kill you, but you sure as heck wont get anywhere fast.

This is why i support the Fairtax plan. I removes all excise taxes, freeing businesses to expand and re-invest, and frees us hard working stiffs from he burden of the IRS. We get our check without any Federal income tax, no SSI, no medicare withheld. :hi:

[Linkster]

Well - I hate to disagree - but I own three corporations and a few small businesses - and sure as hell do pay taxes - and probably a lot higher percentage than any of the oil companies

[Kinky Jones]

start taxing all the tax free jesus money floating around and we would all have a bit more to ourselves :thumbsup:

[Chop Smith]

Point of sale is the only way to insure fair taxation.

There has been movements to call for a federal sales tax and a workover of the IRS for over 40 years and probably will be for 40 more. The opposition is strong as it is made up of lawyers, accountants and federal employees.

[boortzland]

Well - I hate to disagree - but I own three corporations and a few small businesses - and sure as hell do pay taxes - and probably a lot higher percentage than any of the oil companies

And how do you make up for those taxes? They come out of the dividends to shareholders, out of customers pockets bacause you have to figure them into your business plan to be profitable, and even out of your employees pockets in supressed wages.

I repeat, corporations simply collect taxes and pass them on to the government. They may in fact show on your balance sheet, but YOU, as a corporation do not pay them.:banghead:

[boortzland]

The Fairtax rally held in Orlando was a Rousing success. Orlando PD came to the Stage near the end of the rally and announce that their estimated had the crowd at 10-12,000 people, despite the heat.

I spoke with Neal Boortz's producer Belinda this morning, and she says plans are out there for rally's in Dayton Ohio, and Indianappolis Indiana.

Because of the success of this 2nd rally, folks on the Hill are taking notice. House speaker Dennis Hastert (not sure if i spelled correctly) is on board with the Fairtax, which means we could see some more movement with this issue. The Key is to get it out of committee.

We need a roll call vote on this issue, so Congressmen can't hide.

If you want to see "proof" i can direct you to Boortz.com but no www. Click on "todays nuze" and scroll half way down, you will see a link to about 300 pictures from the rally.:thumbsup:

[SirMoby]

While I think some form of point of sale tax has great merits, I think it will slow down spending and cause some serious economic issues if that's the only form of taxation.

However, adding a point of sales tax to the current income tax may be our only way to buy down our debt before it surpasses our GDP which could also cause serious economic problems.

[boortzland]

While I think some form of point of sale tax has great merits, I think it will slow down spending and cause some serious economic issues if that's the only form of taxation.

However, adding a point of sales tax to the current income tax may be our only way to buy down our debt before it surpasses our GDP which could also cause serious economic problems.

The Fairtax will generate more tax to the Ferderal Government for a couple of reasons, and that will go along way to paying the debt, and funding
Social Security and Medicare. All this without an income tax.

#1- When folks start living off their gross income, they will spend more money, increasing the funds to the government. They will simply have more of their own money.
#2-Foreign Tourist who are visiting the USA will be paying the Fairtax on Hotels, RentalCars, Domestic Flights, Food, Suveniers,etc. It's been estimated that at any given time there are in exces of 2 million visitors in the country.
#3 The un-invited aliens from our southern border who mostly work for cash will pay the FairTax on items they but, food,gas,housing, clothes, etc.
#4 Drug Dealers who buy yatchs, sports cars, big homes, expensive foods, etc, they will pay the FairTax

These are just some of the reasons the FairTax will work, and will be able to fund the government, including Social Security & Medicare.

If people decide to not spend because of the 23% inclusive FairTax, the banks will become overloaded with cash. The interest rates will fall. That will cause a boom in entrepeneurship, housing starts, re-investment in the USA by American and Foreighn companies. You would have to hide to not find a good job.

What we do not want is a consumption tax AND an income tax. That is why the FairTax defunds the IRS and in a seperate bill the 16th amendment will be repealed. With both taxes in place,congress is left with the ability to use tax policy to punish or reward chosen segments at their whim.

Over 21 million dollars has been spent in private studies to figure out what the best system of taxation would be, that would fund the goverment at current levels, releive us from the 60,000 page and growing IRS tax code, and free our economy to grown in a truly free market unobstructed by oppressive taxation. The Fairtax is the result of that study. If you want I'll find the links to those studies.

Another thought, you said the FairTax would slow down spending. I think it's the contrary. Remember, you get your gross check! Also, with excise taxes removed from products, even with the 23% FairTax, you will pay about the same as you do now for an item, minus the currently exclusive sales tax.

So if you pay $100 now, you have to add $5-$7 in sales tax. Under the Fairtax the cost of that item would be reduced by about $23, and then the inclusive Fairtax would be added, and your total out of pocket would still be $100.
Win, Win.
Can i give out links on this site?

[SirMoby]

I'd be interested the detailed studies.

Just because I don't think it has an ice cubes chance in hell of working doesn't mean I'm not open to researching information that may change my mind :)

[NobleSavage]

It's never gonna happen. The amount of special interest involved in the current tax system is off the chart. It would be far easier to just call for a revolution.

[Tommy]

It's never gonna happen. The amount of special interest involved in the current tax system is off the chart. It would be far easier to just call for a revolution.

I really liked this idea even though i am sure I would end up paying more taxes

but what NobleDavage said is true
corporations and big money will never let this happen

all the corperate tax perks would be gone
even a small company gets a lot of tax perks over the avarage joe

[boortzland]

I really liked this idea even though i am sure I would end up paying more taxes

but what NobleDavage said is true
corporations and big money will never let this happen

all the corperate tax perks would be gone
even a small company gets a lot of tax perks over the avarage joe

Corporate perks would not be an issue, because all corp excise taxes, payroll taxes, etc would be gone. They would not only be relieved of these taxes, but also the cost of "tax compliance", you know, hiring accountng firms to be sure they've paid all appropriate taxes. The cost of tax compliance is one of the largest expenses that most businesses face. In turn, they compensate for that cost by limiting salaries, reducing dividends, raising prices...in other words passing it along.

This would be good for Corporations, the only opposition would be from politicians who want to use tax policy to punish or reward selected groups.

The FairTax is designed to be revenue neutral, We would pay about the same as we are now, but would have more buying power living off of our gross pay. The revenue to the government would be about the same until the economy is jump started by the extra flow of cash, and then their revenues would increase.

[boortzland]

I'd be interested the detailed studies.

Just because I don't think it has an ice cubes chance in hell of working doesn't mean I'm not open to researching information that may change my mind :)

Here is a link to several of the studies. There is a lot of material here for you to research.

http://www.fairtax.org/economic.html

This page will have links to those individual studies. The Cato Institute has also published a report that is in pdf format you can print.

[boortzland]

Has anyone read any of the studies on the above link?

[SirMoby]

Has anyone read any of the studies on the above link?
Unfortunately I've been tied up with other things. Mainly building a new swing set for my little girl. It wieghs about 600 lbs, is 14 feet high, has 2 decks and I started it in the hottest month in 76 years.

I did spot Neal Boortz on Fox News discussing a different issue. Any relation?

[boortzland]

Unfortunately I've been tied up with other things. Mainly building a new swing set for my little girl. It wieghs about 600 lbs, is 14 feet high, has 2 decks and I started it in the hottest month in 76 years.

I did spot Neal Boortz on Fox News discussing a different issue. Any relation?

Yes, Neal Boortz wrote the book called "The Fair Tax" and has been a conservative talk show icon in Atlanta for 35 years. He would say he has a face for radio.

My user name was created because of my passion for the fair tax plan, and was intended to let others know I was from Boortz-land = Atlanta.

I've been to many of his remotes, rallies, and other events, and I am on a 1st name basis with much of his staff, Royal, Belinda, etc.

I dont work for him, or any other media or political organization. I'm just an internet junky with informed opinions on the issues.

Neal tends to do well on TV but does not like to do it.:hi:

[boortzland]

I really liked this idea even though i am sure I would end up paying more taxes

but what NobleDavage said is true
corporations and big money will never let this happen

all the corperate tax perks would be gone
even a small company gets a lot of tax perks over the avarage joe

Perks would not be nesscessary if they didnt have to pay the tax in the first place. Thats like favoring the current system so you can get a home mortgage deduction on your INCOME TAX RETURN, over the FairTax, where you wont be paying income tax PERIOD.

People like to try and make this a complicated issue, but its really very simple.
[LIST]
pay no federal income tax, soc sec, or medicare from your paycheck

this gives you more buying power & ability to save

replace the income tax with a 23% national retail sales tax on new goods and services

remove all imbeded corporate taxes, excise taxes etc, and free the economy to grow without the limitation palced on it by corporation having to comply with a 60,000 page opressive tax code.

frees all americans from any tax for basic necessities up to the poverty level, this releives those Lower income families from ANY tax burden allowing them to climb out of poverty.

Allows us all to save and build wealth tax free (no captal gains, no estate taxes, no tax unless you make a purchae at the retail level.

This is just off the top of my head. It just means for example, if you are poor, and need a used car...since used cars will not be taxed, you will save $6-800 in sales tax under the fair tax. For those EVIL RICH PEOPLE, when they however buy a Hummer, the will pay the 23% inclusive FairTAX. Before you guys scream!!, keep in mind that Hummer will be approxamately 23% cheaper when the imbedded taxes are removed.
60,000 HUMMER - 23% IMBEDDED TAXES = 46,200 + 23% FAIRTAX= 60,000. YOU PAY BASICALLY THE SAME FOR THE HUMMER, but you will be buying with your gross income, and you will not be adding the 6-8% sales tax on top of that.

[SirMoby]

Neal tends to do well on TV but does not like to do it.:hi:
I thought he came across very poorly. He seemed very intelligent, nervous, arrogant and was making inside jokes to the news guy which made no sense to me and probably no sense to anyone watching outside of the studio.

I don't hold this against him at all since people often come across differently when doing public speaking and I know the first time that I was on TV I came across poorly.

Seems he would do better to not be on TV, at least not this time. I'm still open and plan to read some of his stuff in the next couple of days.

[boortzland]

I thought he came across very poorly. He seemed very intelligent, nervous, arrogant and was making inside jokes to the news guy which made no sense to me and probably no sense to anyone watching outside of the studio.

I don't hold this against him at all since people often come across differently when doing public speaking and I know the first time that I was on TV I came across poorly.

Seems he would do better to not be on TV, at least not this time. I'm still open and plan to read some of his stuff in the next couple of days.

you can go to boortz.com, no www, and click on Neals Nuze. He has a pretty good website.

People are constantly after him for TV, but he hates it. It's no surprise to me that he does poorly sometimes. He did pretty good last time he was on Hannity and Colmes, partly bcuz they were talking FairTax. He gets asked because of his popularity on talk radio, but it is nor his forum. In person he is somewhat shy, and is flabbergasted that so many folks show up to see him at appearances, book signings, etc.

you can also listen live. i think there is a link for that too.

[boortzland]

i WILL KEEP THIS TOPIC GOING, BECAUSE IT IS WORTH THE FIGHT!

[boortzland]

since taxes were brought back up. I will use this opportunity to bring this string back to the top.