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Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 10:20 AM
Bill says it well....

8uS3jay-hmE

CosmicRocker
01-16-2011, 10:36 AM
eh. some truth, lots of religion bashing ( Bills' new sthick).
Some were Diests, some were church goers, some simply believed in a "Creator", some were Christian - but NONE wanted a state church, or living by rules of religion. Prolly his most salient point.
One part i didn't follow was something like "power must be in the hands of the intelligent, not (something)" Power is in the hands of the ppl thru Representation - that part seemed off.

I'll have to play it again.
entertaining, some truths,some same old bashing by Bill - but it WAS funny. LOL :lmao2:

Thnx. :thumbsup:

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 12:24 PM
I don't think his take on religion is his new schtick, he made a movie about it. I agree with him but that's my opinion and at some point I'll put it together in a post with factual information.

He says it and makes me laugh. I love that. Some people have that gift.

His point about the baggers and their 'every man' candidates and recently installed lunatics is that the founding fathers were intelligent people, accomplished people, and they didn't want religion in government for a reason. Many of the baggers are religious cult members and I even heard one (member of congress or candidate) make a statement that the only allegiance should be to the bible. That pretty well sums it up. They think Christ delivered the Constitution.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed it and got a couple of laughs out of it. :hi:

Roger from Ohio
01-16-2011, 12:29 PM
I cant post the video but here is the link (about 1:30 long) SNL about the founding fathers and guns.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/207598/saturday-night-live-update-constitutional-corner

CosmicRocker
01-16-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't think his take on religion is his new schtick, he made a movie about it. I agree with him but that's my opinion and at some point I'll put it together in a post with factual information.

He says it and makes me laugh. I love that. Some people have that gift.

His point about the baggers and their 'every man' candidates and recently installed lunatics is that the founding fathers were intelligent people, accomplished people, and they didn't want religion in government for a reason. Many of the baggers are religious cult members and I even heard one (member of congress or candidate) make a statement that the only allegiance should be to the bible. That pretty well sums it up. They think Christ delivered the Constitution.

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed it and got a couple of laughs out of it. :hi:
I did find it funny, Bill is hilarious, even if one disagrees with his p.o.v.
One just has to laugh at the state of our politics.

Religion and politics have been intertwined throughout our history;
I have no problem with religion being a motivator for social change, or even to run for office. we have that freedom.


Many of the baggers are religious cult members and I even heard one (member of congress or candidate) make a statement that the only allegiance should be to the bible. That pretty well sums it up.

I agree, I have MAJOR problems with that mindset. :talktothehand:

California Chrome
01-16-2011, 12:41 PM
Nice to see liberals ratcheting down their "hateful rhetoric".

This is the standard rotten insulting rhetoric they dish out while demanding baby gloves speech in return.

Too fuckin' funny. Thanks for the prime example. :lmao2:

T-Cat
01-16-2011, 12:42 PM
eh. some truth, lots of religion bashing ( Bills' new sthick).It's not exactly new though.


Some were Diests, some were church goers, some simply believed in a "Creator", some were Christian - but NONE wanted a state church, or living by rules of religion. Prolly his most salient point.
One part i didn't follow was something like "power must be in the hands of the intelligent, not (something)" Power is in the hands of the ppl thru Representation - that part seemed off.Didn't only white land owning males initially have the right to vote? They were pretty much the educated elite of the time.

Roger from Ohio
01-16-2011, 12:57 PM
Nice to see liberals ratcheting down their "hateful rhetoric".

This is the standard rotten insulting rhetoric they dish out while demanding baby gloves speech in return.

Too fuckin' funny. Thanks for the prime example. :lmao2:
I think this is the correct response.....

2101

Please let me know if this is incorrect


:D

CosmicRocker
01-16-2011, 12:58 PM
It's not exactly new though.

Ya. I forgot "Religulous" /I'm pretty neutral on religion -just keep it out of politics (Bills and KEYSER"s points.)


Didn't only white land owning males initially have the right to vote? They were pretty much the educated elite of the time So you want to go back to that? Is that what was Bill was advocating? Or just makng a statement? I don't see your point.

have to re-watch the clip after work.

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 01:07 PM
I did find it funny, Bill is hilarious, even if one disagrees with his p.o.v.
One just has to laugh at the state of our politics.

Religion and politics have been intertwined throughout our history;
I have no problem with religion being a motivator for social change, or even to run for office. we have that freedom.



I agree, I have MAJOR problems with that mindset. :talktothehand:

Religion and politics may have been intertwined as motivation for 'some' people but our Constitution guarantees seperation of church and state...the people I referenced above don't agree...they, the dominionists, believe we should have a bible based government..

They don't give a damn about 'all the people'.....

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 01:09 PM
It's not exactly new though.

Didn't only white land owning males initially have the right to vote? They were pretty much the educated elite of the time.

and back in the 1700-1800 and early 1900 only men were allowed to wear pants...as a sign of their status.

California Chrome
01-16-2011, 01:12 PM
I think this is the correct response.....

2101

Please let me know if this is incorrect


:DActually, that best describes the hypocritical haters who were crying for "civility". You didn't realize it is a double-edged sword which applies to the left.

These demonstrations make my case that the cries for "civility" translates into nothing but "shut the fuck up". Keep 'em coming. It will be pointed out for what it is every time. :thumbsup:

T-Cat
01-16-2011, 01:29 PM
Ya. I forgot "Religulous" /I'm pretty neutral on religion -just keep it out of politics (Bills and KEYSER"s points.)Oh it goes back a lot farther than Religulous. I remember Bill on PI back in the 1990's and it was always part of his schtick.


So you want to go back to that? Is that what was Bill was advocating? Or just makng a statement? I don't see your point.No I was not advocating that nor do I think Bill was advocating that. I think that is what he was referring to. During the founding of the country it was the educated elite who ran it while most of the uneducated didn't even get to vote. But the US is no longer an agrarian society where educational opportunities were extremely limited for most people.

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 01:31 PM
Actually, that best describes the hypocritical haters who were crying for "civility". You didn't realize it is a double-edged sword which applies to the left.

These demonstrations make my case that the cries for "civility" translates into nothing but "shut the fuck up". Keep 'em coming. It will be pointed out for what it is every time. :thumbsup:

Who is being 'uncivil' here? What is 'uncivil' about the video, which you probably didn't look at?

CosmicRocker
01-16-2011, 01:33 PM
Oh it goes back a lot farther than Religulous. I remember Bill on PI back in the 1990's and it was always part of his schtick.

No I was not advocating that nor do I think Bill was advocating that. I think that is what he was referring to. During the founding of the country it was the educated elite who ran it while most of the uneducated didn't even get to vote. But the US is now longer an agrarian society where educational opportunities were extremely limited for most people.
oook, i'm lost will have to go back and see what he meant.
On the other hand, might just let this one go.


Back to work either way for now *sigh*

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 01:37 PM
oook, i'm lost will have to go back and see what he meant.
On the other hand, might just let this one go.


Back to work either way for now *sigh*


I went to watch it again and HBO pulled it for copy wright infringement...so until it can be posted again...it will show up....and be reported...in any case we'll use our memories, those of us that watched it.

Have a good work day.

California Chrome
01-16-2011, 01:38 PM
Who is being 'uncivil' here? What is 'uncivil' about the video, which you probably didn't look at?I read the transcript. Same old "racist" shtick which can be classified as "inciteful rhetoric". The rest is simply "hateful rhetoric" which was just being cried about a week ago.

I don't have a problem with any kind of language, but don't dish out this garbage and demand a bouquet of pink roses in return.

If the left wants some so-called "civility", they need to lead by example. Until then, it's on. :thumbsup:

T-Cat
01-16-2011, 01:46 PM
oook, i'm lost will have to go back and see what he meant.
On the other hand, might just let this one go.


Back to work either way for now *sigh*Bill was talking about how the Founding Fathers were in fact the educated elite (you know those evil elitists) and laid down a foundation which restricted the control of power to those "elitists".

TheFactFinder
01-16-2011, 01:56 PM
92% of the Founding Fathers were Christians, that' a fact.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

The term separation of church and state is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the COTUS, in fact Thomas Jefferson only spoke of a wall between organized religion and government in a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association in 1802, WELL after the COTUS was written and ratified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

yes, i Know it's Wiki but it gives good information on this particular subject.

T-Cat
01-16-2011, 02:16 PM
92% of the Founding Fathers were Christians, that' a fact.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.htmlDeists of course aren't Christians. And quite a few Christians don't really consider Unitarians to be Christians either.


The term separation of church and state is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the COTUS, in fact Thomas Jefferson only spoke of a wall between organized religion and government in a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association in 1802, WELL after the COTUS was written and ratified.But not particularly important as the first amendment is what creates a separation of church and state. Debating the terminology for describing it doesn't change that.

CosmicRocker
01-16-2011, 02:41 PM
Bill was talking about how the Founding Fathers were in fact the educated elite (you know those evil elitists) and laid down a foundation which restricted the control of power to those "elitists".
Ok. now I get it. I have no problem with that, like you said we were agrarian, and I doubt if ppl even knew what to vote on.

We've changed as society and the updated the Const. (Amendments) -that's how the Constitution should work.

I think them old white elitists did a pretty good job of laying the Foundation;
the Document never ceases to amaze me - written when it was.

I seriously doubt if you couild come up with a better design now -
EXCEPT TO OUT LAW POLITICAL PARTYS (IMHO / LOL)

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 02:45 PM
Bill was talking about how the Founding Fathers were in fact the educated elite (you know those evil elitists) and laid down a foundation which restricted the control of power to those "elitists".

I didn't hear it that way but your point is correct as well. Like looking at one of those pics where depending on which side of your brain you use you see different images...both are correct.

Our politics over the last ten years has crossed a line into insanity. We have people voted into office that could be officially judged emotionally unstable..their ideas are beyond borderline well into reactionary. Look at the repeal bill the right is working on to repeal healthcare reform...what insanity is that name on the bill?...it's pure unadulterated BS...they will pick out something tiny that doesn't benefit their corporate owners and call it repeal...the rest will stay because the Ins. Co's wrote it.

Mint...please pick out something from the video you think incites violence and post it so we can see what you consider inappropriate. Thanks.

on edit..
I'll add this comment I found that relates to the Mawr video...



The context here is Bill Mahr's show last night and his comment that Benjamin Franklin studied lightning.

Well he did much more than that which Teabaggers would hate, and I learned about it from something written by Issac Asimov in 1969.

The title of the essay is "The Fateful Lightning" and it describes the lightning rod's impact on rational thinking. It is included in the collections "The Stars In Their Courses"(1971) and "The Edge Of Tomorrow"(1985).

What this essay describes is the lightning rod being rejected by Theologians because it claimed to control something they thought was controlled by God. It describes the various steps taken for the lightning rod to begin to be accepted by society until finally the only choice was to either put them on top of churches or allow these building to continue to be the only ones struck by lightning (which made it appear that God didn't like them).

It is a short, fun and very easy read if you can find a copy or have an old paperback on a shelf somewhere (as I do).

Asimov is a favorite of mine as well.

BlackAsCoal
01-16-2011, 03:51 PM
Religion and politics may have been intertwined as motivation for 'some' people but our Constitution guarantees seperation of church and state...the people I referenced above don't agree...they, the dominionists, believe we should have a bible based government..

They don't give a damn about 'all the people'.....

The next time a right-winger tries to tell you of how much the Founders loved religion, or that this country was founded on Christianity .. teach them something they don't know .. The Treaty of Tripoli

http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/article.JPG

That is part of Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli .. it reads ..

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -- Signed, George Washington, President of the United States, 4 November 1796.

When the Treaty came before the new gpvernment of John Adams to be ratified in May 1797, IT WAS READ ALOUD on the floor of the Senate, and copies were distributed to every senator. It passed and the vote was recorded as unanimous.

Upon passage, Adams signed the treaty and proclaimed it to the nation on 10 June 1797 and he wrote the following ..

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."
Does the 1796-97 Treaty with Tripoli Matter to Church/State Separation? (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/buckner_tripoli.html)

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 05:54 PM
The next time a right-winger tries to tell you of how much the Founders loved religion, or that this country was founded on Christianity .. teach them something they don't know .. The Treaty of Tripoli

http://www.nobeliefs.com/images/article.JPG

That is part of Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli .. it reads ..

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." -- Signed, George Washington, President of the United States, 4 November 1796.

When the Treaty came before the new gpvernment of John Adams to be ratified in May 1797, IT WAS READ ALOUD on the floor of the Senate, and copies were distributed to every senator. It passed and the vote was recorded as unanimous.

Upon passage, Adams signed the treaty and proclaimed it to the nation on 10 June 1797 and he wrote the following ..

"Now be it known, That I John Adams, President of the United States of America, having seen and considered the said Treaty do, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, accept, ratify, and confirm the same, and every clause and article thereof. And to the End that the said Treaty may be observed and performed with good Faith on the part of the United States, I have ordered the premises to be made public; And I do hereby enjoin and require all persons bearing office civil or military within the United States, and all other citizens or inhabitants thereof, faithfully to observe and fulfill the said Treaty and every clause and article thereof."
Does the 1796-97 Treaty with Tripoli Matter to Church/State Separation? (http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/buckner_tripoli.html)

Stephen Jay Gould...another favorite! I always forget about the treaty of tripoli...and John Adams...wasn't he an athiest? I think our opponents use the 'camel's nose under the tent' maneuver to try to side step inconvenient truths...:D That's what the 're-write history' project is about...oh and re-write those text books too!!

I see Mint hasn't provided the uncivil words she found so objectionable. Oh well.....

Bill Cosby
01-16-2011, 06:25 PM
I cant post the video but here is the link (about 1:30 long) SNL about the founding fathers and guns.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/207598/saturday-night-live-update-constitutional-corner
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:
:thumbsup:

Great clip............

Bill Cosby
01-16-2011, 06:26 PM
Nice to see liberals ratcheting down their "hateful rhetoric".

This is the standard rotten insulting rhetoric they dish out while demanding baby gloves speech in return.

Too fuckin' funny. Thanks for the prime example. :lmao2:

Did you see the clip??? It is not working now.......:(

Bill Cosby
01-16-2011, 06:36 PM
92% of the Founding Fathers were Christians, that' a fact.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

The term separation of church and state is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the COTUS, in fact Thomas Jefferson only spoke of a wall between organized religion and government in a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association in 1802, WELL after the COTUS was written and ratified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

yes, i Know it's Wiki but it gives good information on this particular subject.


Welcome aboard..........:thumbsup:
:D

Bill Cosby
01-16-2011, 06:44 PM
Our politics over the last ten years has crossed a line into insanity. We have people voted into office that could be officially judged emotionally unstable..their ideas are beyond borderline well into reactionaryhttp://theinspirationroom.com/daily/commercials/2008/10/george-bush-origami.jpg.

So you liberals are now advocating our government start discriminating against the emotionally unstable?? WTF??????????

Next you ppl will wanna discriminate against the insane & stupid to....:mad: :banghead:
http://dailynewshaikus.com/ClipArt/Haikus/2007.07/2007.07.13/CrazyBush.jpg

BlackAsCoal
01-16-2011, 08:29 PM
92% of the Founding Fathers were Christians, that' a fact.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

The term separation of church and state is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the COTUS, in fact Thomas Jefferson only spoke of a wall between organized religion and government in a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association in 1802, WELL after the COTUS was written and ratified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

yes, i Know it's Wiki but it gives good information on this particular subject.

Oh really ..

Thomas Jefferson -

"All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution": freedom for religion, but also freedom from religion."

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibit the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."

"I may grow rich by an art I am compelled to follow; I may recover health by medicines I am compelled to take against my own judgment; but I cannot be saved by a worship I disbelieve and abhor."

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes."

"... shake off all the fears of servile prejudices under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. You will naturally examine first the religion of your own country. Read the bible then, as you would read Livy or Tacitus."

"... I repeat that you must lay aside all prejudice on both sides, and neither believe nor reject any thing because any other person, or description of persons have rejected or believed it. Your own reason is the only oracle given you by heaven, and you are answerable not for the rightness but uprightness of the decision."

"I am for freedom of religion and against all maneuvers to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."

"I will never, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others"

"The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man"

Across the ages, clergy have been interested [according to Jefferson] not in truth but only in wealth and power; when rational people have had difficulty swallowing "their impious heresies," then the clergy have, with the help of the state, forced "them down their throats." Five years later, he [Jefferson] wrote of "this loathsome combination of church and state" that for so many centuries reduced human beings to "dupes and drudges."

"A professorship of Theology should have no place in our institution [the University of Virginia]."

"I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another,"

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a Virgin Mary, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away [with] all this artificial scaffolding."

Jefferson expressed himself strongly on that larger apocalypse, the Book of Revelation, in a letter to Alexander Smyth of 17 January 1825: it is "merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy, nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

James Madison --

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize [sic], every expanded prospect."

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history."

"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

George Washington --

"Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society"

John Adams --

"We should begin by setting conscience free. When all men of all religions ... shall enjoy equal liberty, property, and an equal chance for honors and power ... we may expect that improvements will be made in the human character and the state of society."

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and Dogmatism cannot confine it"

Benjamin Franklin --

I am fully of your Opinion respecting religious Tests; but, tho' the People of Massachusetts have not in their new Constitution kept quite clear of them, yet, if we consider what that People were 100 Years ago, we must allow they have gone great Lengths in Liberality of Sentiment on religious Subjects; and we may hope for greater Degrees of Perfection, when their Constitution, some years hence, shall be revised. If Christian Preachers had continued to teach as Christ and his Apostles did, without Salaries, and as the Quakers now do, I imagine Tests would never have existed; for I think they were invented, not so much to secure Religion itself, as the Emoluments of it. When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.

I could go on and on and on. America was founded by people who had ESCAPED religious persecution .. and to suggest that they wanted that same persecution or authority in the government they were creating is not history, it is the hyperbole they warned of.

Any further questions, SEE: The Treaty of Tripoli .. and all your questions will be immediately answered and you won't have to waste time defending the indefensible ever again.

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 08:59 PM
Well done BAC...Thank You for posting all those quotes, they're wonderful;)

2T
01-16-2011, 09:14 PM
So you liberals are now advocating our government start discriminating against the emotionally unstable?? WTF??????????

Next you ppl will wanna discriminate against the insane & stupid to....:mad: :banghead:
http://dailynewshaikus.com/ClipArt/Haikus/2007.07/2007.07.13/CrazyBush.jpg


we tried but half the fucking country wants to vote for em (cause the identify withem)

2T
01-16-2011, 09:17 PM
Awesome post BAC

BlackAsCoal
01-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Well done BAC...Thank You for posting all those quotes, they're wonderful;)

Most welcome.

Should I tell them that their religion, Christianity, came from .. THE PERSIANS :noway: ?

BlackAsCoal
01-16-2011, 09:20 PM
Awesome post BAC

Thanks :0)

tristanrobin
01-16-2011, 09:23 PM
92% of the Founding Fathers were Christians, that' a fact.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

The term separation of church and state is not mentioned ANYWHERE in the COTUS, in fact Thomas Jefferson only spoke of a wall between organized religion and government in a letter to the Dansbury Baptist Association in 1802, WELL after the COTUS was written and ratified.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

yes, i Know it's Wiki but it gives good information on this particular subject.

First, welcome to the forum :hi:

Secondly, yes, they were Christian. But they understood the difference between government and church. Just like many of us Christians today. We're not all out screaming from the street corners that the founders (who were almost all deists) would have wanted our school teachers leading prayers in school and the government buying Christian holiday displays. It's simply not true.

tristanrobin
01-16-2011, 09:25 PM
very good list of quotes, BAC - thanks. :thumbsup:

BlackAsCoal
01-16-2011, 09:26 PM
very good list of quotes, BAC - thanks. :thumbsup:

Thank you good brother.

Roger from Ohio
01-16-2011, 10:48 PM
Dont mean to pile on, but......

Nice post BAC.... thanks for the quotes.

I will reference the Treaty of Tripoli when the need arises..... I learn something new every day.

Bill Cosby
01-16-2011, 10:51 PM
Dont mean to pile on, but......

Nice post BAC.... thanks for the quotes.

I will reference the Treaty of Tripoli when the need arises..... I learn something new every day.

It is sad, that if our president today spoke in such term there would be rabid public calls w/in the hour for his immediate impeachment, & one can only imagine what they would call for behind closed doors................

Keyser Soze
01-16-2011, 10:54 PM
Most welcome.

Should I tell them that their religion, Christianity, came from .. THE PERSIANS :noway: ?

Not before they get some panty liners....and wet wipes! :D

CosmicRocker
01-17-2011, 06:59 AM
It is sad, that if our president today spoke in such term there would be rabid public calls w/in the hour for his immediate impeachment, & one can only imagine what they would call for behind closed doors................

shows you the founders were from a period of Enlightenement -

The Enlightenment

The eighteenth century is the Age of Enlightenment. The Enlightenment popularizes the ideas developed during the Age of Reason.
The Enlightenment is basically the view or belief that modern science and our understanding of the social world derived from modern science can help us to improve the living conditions on this planet.
War, poverty, and injustice are not God-given punishments for our sinfulness but bad management. Oppressive governments can be reformed or overthrown.
Social inequality can be alleviated and, maybe, overcome. Disease is not to be accepted stoically but to be fought with new medicines.
Poverty can be reduced through the productivity of new inventions and technologies. Ignorance can be overcome through universal public education.
Human societies are perfectible if only we have the will and use our scientific knowledge to plan and socially engineer for a better future. There is no limit to what human reason and ingenuity can achieve.

Important figures of the Enlightenment era include:
Denis Diderot (1713 – 1784)
Jean le Rond d'Alembert (1717 – 1783)
Voltaire pseudonym for François-Marie Arouet (1694 – 1778)
Jean-Jacques Rousseau 1712 – 1778

Gotthold Lessing
Immanuel Kant 1724 - 1804


Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809

2T
01-17-2011, 07:54 AM
shows you the founders were from a period of Enlightenement -

The Enlightenment

The eighteenth century is the Age of Enlightenment. The Enlightenment popularizes the ideas developed during the Age of Reason.
The Enlightenment is basically the view or belief that modern science and our understanding of the social world derived from modern science can help us to improve the living conditions on this planet.
War, poverty, and injustice are not God-given punishments for our sinfulness but bad management. Oppressive governments can be reformed or overthrown.
Social inequality can be alleviated and, maybe, overcome. Disease is not to be accepted stoically but to be fought with new medicines.
Poverty can be reduced through the productivity of new inventions and technologies. Ignorance can be overcome through universal public education.
Human societies are perfectible if only we have the will and use our scientific knowledge to plan and socially engineer for a better future. There is no limit to what human reason and ingenuity can achieve.

Important figures of the Enlightenment era include:
Denis Diderot (1713 – 1784)
Jean le Rond d'Alembert (1717 – 1783)
Voltaire pseudonym for François-Marie Arouet (1694 – 1778)
Jean-Jacques Rousseau 1712 – 1778

Gotthold Lessing
Immanuel Kant 1724 - 1804


Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809

:thumbsup:



.

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 09:23 AM
Dont mean to pile on, but......

Nice post BAC.... thanks for the quotes.

I will reference the Treaty of Tripoli when the need arises..... I learn something new every day.

We learn from each other my friend.

Thank YOU.

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 09:27 AM
Not before they get some panty liners....and wet wipes! :D

:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Come on now .. I was eating some Raisin Bran .. which is now all over my mouse pad.

Too funny. :0)

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 09:28 AM
shows you the founders were from a period of Enlightenement -

The Enlightenment

The eighteenth century is the Age of Enlightenment. The Enlightenment popularizes the ideas developed during the Age of Reason.
The Enlightenment is basically the view or belief that modern science and our understanding of the social world derived from modern science can help us to improve the living conditions on this planet.
War, poverty, and injustice are not God-given punishments for our sinfulness but bad management. Oppressive governments can be reformed or overthrown.
Social inequality can be alleviated and, maybe, overcome. Disease is not to be accepted stoically but to be fought with new medicines.
Poverty can be reduced through the productivity of new inventions and technologies. Ignorance can be overcome through universal public education.
Human societies are perfectible if only we have the will and use our scientific knowledge to plan and socially engineer for a better future. There is no limit to what human reason and ingenuity can achieve.

Important figures of the Enlightenment era include:
Denis Diderot (1713 – 1784)
Jean le Rond d'Alembert (1717 – 1783)
Voltaire pseudonym for François-Marie Arouet (1694 – 1778)
Jean-Jacques Rousseau 1712 – 1778

Gotthold Lessing
Immanuel Kant 1724 - 1804


Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809

Excellent thoughts.

CosmicRocker
01-17-2011, 09:35 AM
Excellent thoughts.
Great Quotes too BAC, meant to tell you.
Can we finally agree this is a secular nation, and the Founders wanted that way??

Proly not -but you provided yet more evidence of the obvious :thumbsup:

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 09:48 AM
It is sad, that if our president today spoke in such term there would be rabid public calls w/in the hour for his immediate impeachment, & one can only imagine what they would call for behind closed doors................


Consider this .. The treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, everyone who passed it had a copy of the treaty with all of its language .. it passed unanimously, President Adams took the unusual extra step of confirming EVERY passage and ALL of its language .. then he declared it to the American public .. and NO ONE suffered any political setbacks from its passage.

A truly fascinating slice of American history.

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 09:54 AM
Great Quotes too BAC, meant to tell you.
Can we finally agree this is a secular nation, and the Founders wanted that way??

Proly not -but you provided yet more evidence of the obvious :thumbsup:

There is absolutely no doubt that the Founders did indeed strive to create a secular nation. The writings of Jefferson demonstrate a contempt for religion in government.

Although the Founders were not perfect, they were brilliant .. further demonstrated when they created the Constitution as a living document. They knew they could not account for all that was to come in the future .. they even knew that blacks would not always be slaves.

We should all have an appreciation for the wisdom of the Founders.

Bill Cosby
01-17-2011, 05:53 PM
Consider this .. The treaty was read aloud on the Senate floor, everyone who passed it had a copy of the treaty with all of its language .. it passed unanimously, President Adams took the unusual extra step of confirming EVERY passage and ALL of its language .. then he declared it to the American public .. and NO ONE suffered any political setbacks from its passage.

A truly fascinating slice of American history.

it is such language used by the founders that reveals just how unreal the tea party ideals actually are. THey wish to turn the clock back to a time that never existed.....

The vast majority have zero historical perspective or even a rudimentary understanding of our history & world events........ A few hours a week of study @ beck U & they think they can talk shit=beckology.......

They only know enough to be dangerous, & then, mostly to themselves....http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/chrisforbes007/selfonfire.gif

BlackAsCoal
01-17-2011, 06:19 PM
it is such language used by the founders that reveals just how unreal the tea party ideals actually are. THey wish to turn the clock back to a time that never existed.....

The vast majority have zero historical perspective or even a rudimentary understanding of our history & world events........ A few hours a week of study @ beck U & they think they can talk shit=beckology.......

They only know enough to be dangerous, & then, mostly to themselves....http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/chrisforbes007/selfonfire.gif

BINGO !!!

You are correct. :0)

Great cartoon. :lmao2:

tristanrobin
01-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Just watched the whole show on On Demand. It was a pretty good show. Bill is very funny - and, though over the top (he IS a comedian, after all), usually right on target.


Many of the baggers are religious cult members and I even heard one (member of congress or candidate) make a statement that the only allegiance should be to the bible. That pretty well sums it up. They think Christ delivered the Constitution.


Who was it that said, "Sir, you did not place your hand on the Constitution of the United States and swear to uphold The Bible.

tristanrobin
01-17-2011, 08:25 PM
oh - and he's always been an atheist - even before his tv gigs when he was just a stand up.

Bill Cosby
01-18-2011, 02:41 PM
Founding Fathers' dirty campaign (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-22/living/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans_1_jefferson-family-sally-hemings-vice-president-jefferson?_s=PM:LIVING)

Negative campaigning in America was sired by two lifelong friends, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America's independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his vice president.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward.

Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was "one of the most detestable of mankind." Mental Floss: Jefferson: The sensitive writer type

Jefferson hires a hatchet man

Back then, presidential candidates didn't actively campaign. In fact, Adams and Jefferson spent much of the election season at their respective homes in Massachusetts and Virginia.

But the key difference between the two politicians was that Jefferson hired a hatchet man named James Callendar to do his smearing for him. Adams, on the other hand, considered himself above such tactics. To Jefferson's credit, Callendar proved incredibly effective, convincing many Americans that Adams desperately wanted to attack France. Although the claim was completely untrue, voters bought it, and Jefferson stole the election.

Jefferson paid a price for his dirty campaign tactics, though. Callendar served jail time for the slander he wrote about Adams, and when he emerged from prison in 1801, he felt Jefferson still owed him.

After Jefferson did little to appease him, Callendar broke a story in 1802 that had only been a rumor until then -- that the President was having an affair with one of his slaves, Sally Hemings. In a series of articles, Callendar claimed that Jefferson had lived with Hemings in France and that she had given birth to five of his children.

tristanrobin
01-18-2011, 03:52 PM
"hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

hahahahahaha

sounds like Palin

Keyser Soze
01-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Fascinating...Thanks Bill. I found this telling...


Jefferson paid a price for his dirty campaign tactics, though. Callendar served jail time for the slander he wrote about Adams, and when he emerged from prison in 1801, he felt Jefferson still owed him.

That is what's missing in our political arena today...people need to check their facts and slander be prosecuted in my view.

Roger from Ohio
01-18-2011, 05:01 PM
Fascinating...Thanks Bill. I found this telling...



That is what's missing in our political arena today...people need to check their facts and slander be prosecuted in my view.
I had that same thought.

there needs to be consequences for lying about others in a political campaign.

Bill Cosby
01-19-2011, 05:40 PM
Back then, like now, was pretty messy.......

I think like then, there are clear legal remedies for libel, slander etc although it seems quite rare nowdays when ppl actually bother w/ it.....

Perhaps now more will feel it is worth it, to not only call someone out on it, but take them to court........