"Support the Troops" - unless they're a liability with the PTSD

[Bill]

I dunno, it's probably just me, but dang this seems really pretty sleazy...

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WASHINGTON — Thousands of U.S. soldiers in Iraq — as many as 10 a day — are being discharged by the military for mental health reasons. But the Pentagon isn't blaming the war. It says the soldiers had "pre-existing" conditions that disqualify them for treatment by the government.

Many soldiers and Marines being discharged on this basis actually suffer from combat-related problems, experts say. But by classifying them as having a condition unrelated to the war, the Defense Department is able to quickly get rid of troops having trouble doing their work while also saving the expense of caring for them.

The result appears to be that many actually suffering from combat-related problems such as post-traumatic stress disorder or traumatic brain injuries don't get the help they need.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/washington/story/B8F5491DEDE1CF2C8625736500190F67?OpenDocument

I know, this stories a little old, we've already heard so many "veterans get screwed" stories that it really don't matter, right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Support the Troops!

[Linkster]

It makes me sick when I go to a vets hospital - or for that matter try to get my benefits - you would think after giving them 12 years of my life I would get something out of that wonderful medical care system they promised - but it just doesnt happen - and since I dont have the resources to spend on trying to force them to - nor the desire to line some lawyers pockets with ill-earned money - I had to learn to let it go ages ago.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Bill, the government looks at the soldiers as nothing but chattel. Expendable commodities. Were you expecting something different?

If they actually gave a damn about the men and women who fight for our country they would at least offer good private insurance to help take care of them. Instead we have "Veterans" hospitals that are run down, ill equipped and short staffed.

But by gum, they will lure you with Duty to Country, Protect your loved ones, it's the Patriotic thing to do, support your President he's knows what's best.

Politicians and lawyers are liars. That's been their MO for centuries. That hasn't changed.

Lady Mod

[disrupter]

It is positively perverse how the neocon word smiths play this.

They tell everyone else 'Support the Troops'
While they knife them in the back & none of the corporate media bothers to call them on it.

Can you be more wicked, cynical & sick?

Republicans: the party of treachery

You can't out hypocrite a Republican.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

It is positively perverse how the neocon word smiths play this.

They tell everyone else 'Support the Troops'
While they knife them in the back & none of the corporate media bothers to call them on it.

Can you be more wicked, cynical & sick?

Republicans: the party of treachery

You can't out hypocrite a Republican.

The media calls them on it all the time. Especially the Washington Post. Don't knock the media. Why aren't the veterans who are getting a raw deal speaking out and LOUDLY and warning others?

Lady Mod

[disrupter]

Didn't walter reed sit there for years in that condition before it was finally brought to light?

Wasn't there some politician who talked about the conditions there years ago, but no one paid attention?

And now, even AFTER the scandal, virtually nothing is done.
Our government is not only worthless it is evil.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Didn't walter reed sit there for years in that condition before it was finally brought to light?

Wasn't there some politician who talked about the conditions there years ago, but no one paid attention?

And now, even AFTER the scandal, virtually nothing is done.
Our government is not only worthless it is evil.

True, but weren't there veterans using it all that time that never said anything?


Lady Mod

[disrupter]

I suppose part of it is whether it ignites in the public consciousness or not.
I guess that would pass the ball to the American people.

I guess the notion of 'civic duty' in our complete mercenary culture is an a long dead anachronism.

It really is a shame to be an American.
Pavlovian money grubbers.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I suppose part of it is whether it ignites in the public consciousness or not.
I guess that would pass the ball to the American people.

I guess the notion of 'civic duty' in our complete mercenary culture is an a long dead anachronism.

It really is a shame to be an American.
Pavlovian money grubbers.

Now you are "getting" it.

We talk about it on these forums and stuff. But what are we REALLY doing about it outside of venting about it?

Did the issues "ignite" our own consciousness? Are we banning together with ideas on how to rectify the wrongs?

We are all hypocrites in one fashion or another when it comes to things we actually might be able to change.

How many people actually KNOW there is something we can do about it? How many who know what that is are sharing that information?

If we want changes, it's got to be done by Americans at the grass roots level.

Know what I mean?

Lady Mod

[disrupter]

they are soldiers.
they are trained to have complete subordination [respect?] to authority.
to lie, cheat, steal, sexually assault, is commonplace in the military,
but to openly bring disrespect or question authorities is an abomination.

the military is a weird, mostly male, culture.
they generally take people who have no other avenue,
break them down psychologically & train them to completely virtually unquestioningly follow their commander.

Pride is often an obsession with them.
I wouldn't be surprised if women weren't clinically demonstrated to be more strategic thinkers than males. Getting a child raised takes long term planning, having sex can take as little as a minute or two.

[Jesse Hemingway]

Dear VoteVets.org Supporter,

Maybe Rush Limbaugh hasn't heard, but there's a new sheriff in town - America's troops and veterans, who are not going to sit idle while he and his ilk demean the service of those who oppose the President's failed policy in Iraq.

Today, we're unveiling a new television and radio ad, taking Rush head on, for his contention that we're "phony soldiers."

VIEW OUR NEW AD HERE: https://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/1138/t/376/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=1755


The ad features Brian McGough, an Iraq war veteran who received the Purple Heart for a traumatic brain injury as a result of shrapnel he took to the head, in Iraq. In the ad, Brian makes it clear: "Rush, the shrapnel I took to my head was real. My traumatic brain injury was real. And, my belief that we are on the wrong course in Iraq is real. Until you have the guts to call me a "phony solider" to my face, stop telling lies about my service."

Maybe Rush was able to get away with such smears in the past, but those days are over. No one - especially someone who never had the courage to wear the uniform - is going to pass judgment on us and go unchallenged. He, and others, can expect that VoteVets.org will be right there to represent and defend the voice of America's troops and veterans.

We're taking this ad to places it counts and going on the offense. It will air tomorrow and Thursday on FOX News and CNN, and a radio version of the ad will air during Rush's show in select markets. Keep an eye out and ear open for it.

GO HERE TO VIEW OUR NEW AD :https://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/1138/t/376/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=1755


Please continue to support VoteVets.org and tell your friends and family to do the same. With your continued support, we will be sure to never let these smears go unanswered, and expose hypocrites like Rush Limbaugh for what they are.

Thank you for all of your support,

Jon Soltz
Iraq War Veteran
Chairman, VoteVets.org

[LadyMod at scam.com]

I've met a lot of soldiers with working brains. I've only seen what you suggest in the young soldiers (at least until I've deprogrammed them) or those who are gunho, never ask questions kind of people to begin with.

Kind of like religious zealots. I've had to deal with several on the forum I moderate. First I'm a Christian, who gives it more than just lip service and weekly meeting attendance.

That being said, I'm not brain dead. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the bible, a lot of mistranslated verses. A lot of history in there that just doesn't jive. But beliving in Jesus is a personal decision, faith is personal, not universal. It doesn't make one better than anyone else or more right than anyone else.

But, you have these religious zealots who are so entrenched in what they were taught, half of whom don't even know their own bibles (I know, I've debated them many times) but by golly they are right, their book is infallible and there is NO ROOM at the inn for any other interpretation of God or Moral living.

That's the same way with Neocons, or soldiers who classify as Neocons when it comes to orders and obeying orders. It doesn't matter if there are flaws in those orders or if the orders are morally wrong, they will OBEY to the death.

You have to just learn to work around those kind of people, you can never deprogram them.

Lady Mod

[disrupter]

These are real citizen soldier patriots,

not the bloated anal cyst deferrer who makes millions talking to the brain-dead.

I think it may be a logic conundrum for a brain-dead person to claim to be a patriot. Courage is braving your fears, not an absence of them. Patriotism is supporting your countries ideals, not being ignorant of them.

[disrupter]

to be a soldier you don't have to be brain-dead.
but if your opinion differs from your commander you damn sure better not express it in public, in front of the other recruits/privates.

Military culture: you are not there to think, you are there to faithfully obey.
granted higher rank is expected to take on strategy even some policy decisions.

but we have a civilian commanded military as it should be.
AND unlike bush, the civilian leadership should actually listen carefully [get feedback] to what experienced educated military experts tell him, & not expect them to create an entire pseudo 'plan' that has no good correlation with reality.

[UserName]

From what I understand, the Department of Veterans Affairs estimates that on any given night, there are 275,000 homeless veterans and that over the year, more than 500,000 veterans experience periods of homelessness. Almost one-fourth of all homeless people are veterans and veterans are twice as likely to become homeless as are non-veterans. http://www.nchv.org/background.cfm

Are the Republicans the ones we are supposed to turn for help because they "support the troops", or does their so-called support end when the troops are maimed or disabled? I believe the Republican record speaks for itself....

In 2003, the Republican House cut the budget for veterans health care by $844 million and other programs by another $463 million.

Ninety percent of VA's mandatory spending is from cash payments to service-connected disabled veterans, low-income wartime veterans, and their survivors.

The budget that the president pushed for 2004 included a $28.8 billion dollar cut in funding for veterans programs. (The budget was opposed by Democrats and veterans groups. Virtually every Republican in Congress favored the bill. It took a public campaign by veterans groups to get the cut scaled down to only a $6.2 billion dollar cut).

Republicans cut $5.1 billion in VA medical care by not allowing "Priority 8" veterans to enroll in the medical program. They also instituted an enrollment fee for "Priority 7 and 8" veterans in medical programs, "saving" another $1.3 billion.

The Veterans' Affairs Committee has been directed by the Republican leadership to still find $3.9 billion in cuts to veterans' programs. In a moment of actual care for our veterans, the Congress in 2002 wanted to eliminate an old rule that cut retirement benefits for veterans with disabilities if they received disability pay. President Bush opposed getting rid of the rule, hoping to deny benefits to 600,000 disabled veteran retirees.

None of this is new, Republicans have been attacking the budgets for veterans since at least the 1980s. President Ronald Reagan issued a proposal to cut 20,000 medical personnel in the VA and proposed to scrap a counseling program for veterans, during the middle of a surge of Vietnam veterans suicide attempts. The first President Bush cancelled burial benefits for veterans and cut $600 million from the VA.

Even the "Pervert Republican from Idaho" "supports" his troops....
"It isn't just monetarily that Republicans are insulting our soldiers and veterans. Republican Larry Craig of Idaho decided by himself to block 850 Air Force promotions in order to get four C-130 cargo planes for his home state. Craig's stance is basically no planes, no promotions".


Republicans are simply not fit to run this country. They will lie, cheat, and steal their way to the White House and America suffers. If you love America, don't let this Party of Perverts invade DC ever again.



......

[Linkster]

to be a soldier you don't have to be brain-dead.
but if your opinion differs from your commander you damn sure better not express it in public, in front of the other recruits/privates

Fortunately - once they are out of uniform - even while they are still in the service - they can say whatever they damn well please - the only time they cant is while in uniform (seen as representing the military's voice rather than as a personal voice - and can be construed to bring "disgrace" to the uniform)

More importantly - if as a military person, they want to address the issues while in uniform, there actually is an avenue for that provided for in the military code and a few have done just that through the redress to congress rules

[Jennifer]

It's very difficult to determine when someone went insane. There are no psychological tests to enlist in the military and have not been any for as long as the military has been around.

Thus, if you show mental issues, the military has to determine if they were caused by shell shock or because you were never totally screwed together right in the first place.

With that said, most people discharged under Section 8 (Mental Instability) are discharged during Boot Camp and most of these are soldiers faking it once they realize that Boot Camp is not an easy place to be. (For those of you with military experience, I realize it is called Basic Combat Training, not Boot Camp in the Army. But most of the viewers here are children who are fed garbage by the American media and probably would not know what was meant by the correct term, so I am using the colloquialism that they are familiar with.)

However, there are some cases of Shell Shock, or as psychiatrists call it, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. These cases usually resort to long therapy sessions in a peaceful environment with the eventual rehabilitation of the soldier and reintegration of the soldier in a non-combat related field. For those soldiers who cannot be rehabilitated, private medical facilities are arranged so that they can pose no danger to themselves or others.

If you want to slander an organization for the mistreatment of American soldiers, perhaps you should look at the Government run, civilian side, Veteran's Affairs office which is under funded, runs piss-poor medical facilities like Walter Reid and routinely denies treatment for service connected injuries and benefits for disabled soldiers.

[Linkster]

We used to get a slew of guys that would put in for Section 8s on xmas day - they called it the sanity clause

[LadyMod at scam.com]

We used to get a slew of guys that would put in for Section 8s on xmas day - they called it the sanity clause


:doh: Grrrooooooooan!

[Kinky Jones]

It's very difficult to determine when someone went insane. There are no psychological tests to enlist in the military and have not been any for as long as the military has been around.

Thus, if you show mental issues, the military has to determine if they were caused by shell shock or because you were never totally screwed together right in the first place.

With that said, most people discharged under Section 8 (Mental Instability) are discharged during Boot Camp and most of these are soldiers faking it once they realize that Boot Camp is not an easy place to be. (For those of you with military experience, I realize it is called Basic Combat Training, not Boot Camp in the Army. But most of the viewers here are children who are fed garbage by the American media and probably would not know what was meant by the correct term, so I am using the colloquialism that they are familiar with.)

However, there are some cases of Shell Shock, or as psychiatrists call it, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. These cases usually resort to long therapy sessions in a peaceful environment with the eventual rehabilitation of the soldier and reintegration of the soldier in a non-combat related field. For those soldiers who cannot be rehabilitated, private medical facilities are arranged so that they can pose no danger to themselves or others.

If you want to slander an organization for the mistreatment of American soldiers, perhaps you should look at the Government run, civilian side, Veteran's Affairs office which is under funded, runs piss-poor medical facilities like Walter Reid and routinely denies treatment for service connected injuries and benefits for disabled soldiers.

did you read the first line of the story, the one that states they are ALL serving in Iraq? but thank you for enlightening us about boot camp drop outs :( most cases of PTSD go untreated because the military training tells our troops to keep their mouths shut no matter what, and kicking them out for it instead of getting them the counseling is despicable

[Jennifer]

We used to get a slew of guys that would put in for Section 8s on xmas day - they called it the sanity clause


I like that. =)


But seriously, most of the section 8 discharges are people pretending to be insane because they realize the military isnt for them and doctors who let them because they dont want soldiers who dont want to be there.

[Linkster]

Well aware of what they are - one of my duties while I was in was as the DAC for my unit - so Ive got 12 years of stories I could tell