I'm so terrified I'm just about to piss my pants just now!!!

[Frankg]

Do you realize its been almost 6 years since this country has been attacked, I'd say thats pretty darn good considering all we keep hearing in the news about how Al-Quada is rebuilding , Al-Queda is stronger than ever , the next Al-Quada attack will be 10 times worse than 9/11

President George W Bush has done an excellent job protecting this country since 9/11 (no attacks)however I fear that UBL (like all of you on left) are counting down the days when he won't have to deal with George W Bush or homeland security anymore, having said that I feel now is a good time to start looking some of the democratic candidates plans to protect this country as well as George W Bush has , I'm not worried about the republican candidates because they're pretty much going to keep up the same level of protection George W Bush has

Barack O Bama's plan :
1)Pull all the troops out of Iraq
Looks the rest of the Democrats are second guessing that now that surge
is working and the violence is coming to an end
2)Invade Pakistan
Not a good idea to invade ,one of our allies and ,a country that has nuclear weapons which if we invade can easily fall into the hands Al-Quada

John Edwards plan:
1)No hypothetical nuke talk in Pakistan; eliminate all nukes.
Ok nice , but how do we eliminate ALL nukes, and besides that won't stop the threat of terrorism
2)Don't-ask-don't-tell is discriminatory & bad for military.
Don't see what this has to do with protecting against terrorism
3)Close Guantanamo; end torture; comply with Geneva.
Let terrorists loose , we don't torture and if terrorists dont comply with Geneva why should we
4)President is not above law; no spying on Americans.
I guess that also includes terrorists living in this country , but how do we tell if they're terrorists if we don't spy on them ?
5)Stated the war on terror is just a "bumper sticker slogan"
Sounds encouraging....to a terrorist

Hillary Clintons plan:
Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act
that's good
Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision.
that's bad
Voted YES on restricting business with entities linked to terrorism
that's bad
Federalize aviation security
that's good
She also supported the Iraq War and appropriations to fund it
that's good

We can mostly definetly count on another 9/11 if Edwards or Obama get elected and they dont' seem to be very knowledgeable about Homeland Security , but if they do get in , I will definetly start building my bomb shelter

My problem is I live in trailer park so I don't exactly have a lot of space, guess I'll have to build it under my trailer

[asroc]

Do you understand the basic logical fallacy (correlation implies causation) of saying that a lack of further attacks is a direct product of Bush policies?

[Bill]

Frank, you've increased my regard.

Nice move.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Sorry to hear about your wee-wee problem, Frankie.
Try these. Maybe they'll help you deal with it.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9113/adultdiaperattendspi0.jpg

[Frankg]

Do you understand the basic logical fallacy (correlation implies causation) of saying that a lack of further attacks is a direct product of Bush policies?
yea thats right

[Bill]

Betty, you shouldn't attack him just because he had enough balls to directly address my challenge.

It's a reference to another thread, and reflects well on his character and sense of humor.

Despite the fact that his position doesn't actually make any sense.

[Frankg]

Sorry to hear about your wee-wee problem, Frankie.
Try these. Maybe they'll help you deal with it.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9113/adultdiaperattendspi0.jpg

If they're not bullet proof , forget it

[Bill]

Lets say there is another attack.

Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq because of incompetence, and pull off a real doozy. Another 3000 dead.

What do you think should be done to destroy freedom in this country then?

You want a total surveillance society?

Crypto Government?

Camps? Secret Trials? Secret Prisons?

Confiscate all guns?

End of first amendment?

No right to assemble? No protest allowed? No redress of grievances?

No right to travel? No right to jury trial?

Whattya want to happen?

[Linkster]

I can only base my suppositions on what I saw happen down in New Orleans and the surrounding areas during Katrina - first - Blackwater came in and confiscated all guns no matter what.
Then martial law was partially implemented with Blackwater mercs running around in pickup trucks with a few guys in the back armed to the teeth to enforce the "no one allowed on the street" temporary laws.
Those that didnt have anywhere to go were imprisoned in temporary camps - although since then they have built some really nice detention centers over in Ala and up in Baton Rouge.
First amendment? There was none - if you went out on the streets of downtown you were open to be shot at - no questions asked.
And since there was no judicial system you really didnt have any redress.
If you wanted to travel - you should have gotten out earlier - tough luck

Although I think if you go to the white houses website and read the new Executive Order that Bush signed last year it pretty much describes exactly what will happen - he will be come the "man in charge", the congress and supreme court will not exist as an entity anymore, and all laws will immediately be suspended until the "crisis" can be brought under control and a new government (designed by guess who) can be established.

[Frankg]

Lets say there is another attack.

Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq because of incompetence, and pull off a real doozy. Another 3000 dead.

What do you think should be done to destroy freedom in this country then?

You want a total surveillance society?

Crypto Government?

Camps? Secret Trials? Secret Prisons?

Confiscate all guns?

End of first amendment?

No right to assemble? No protest allowed? No redress of grievances?

No right to travel? No right to jury trial?

Whattya want to happen?

Bill
I honestly believe as Gen Tommy Franks does that if there is another terrorist attack on this country that the constitution will be one of the causualties and marshall law will be imposed

This is why I firmly believe in terrorist surviellance and also why I am against limiting wire taps, and essentially that whoever is the next president....just keep doing what George W Bush is doing

If it aint broke......

[disrupter]

I am holding the planet in orbit, that is why it has remained stable throughout my lifetime.

You have any proof otherwise?

We WERE attacked a-f-t-e-r GWB took office,
nuf sed?

[Linkster]

Lets see if you can still hold the planet in orbit after 2012 - bet ya you cant :thumbsup:

[Betty Blowtorch]

We WERE attacked a-f-t-e-r GWB took office, nuf sed?
Nope. Not nuf said.

We were attacked 5 weeks after George W. Doofus received
a Presidential Daily Briefing entitled "bin Laden determined to
strike in U.S." which specifically warned that al-Qaeda was
planning to hijack airliners and use them in an attack.

And what was Bush's response? He went on vacation.
Good job, Bushy.

[radioguy]

Lets say there is another attack.

Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq because of incompetence, and pull off a real doozy. Another 3000 dead.

What do you think should be done to destroy freedom in this country then?

You want a total surveillance society?

Crypto Government?

Camps? Secret Trials? Secret Prisons?

Confiscate all guns?

End of first amendment?

No right to assemble? No protest allowed? No redress of grievances?

No right to travel? No right to jury trial?

Whattya want to happen?

I would be glad to answer those question from my perspective, Then if you don't mind, I have a question or two for you Bill.

1. Destroying freedom isn't necessary. Allowances and a bit of restructuring may be necessary though.

2. Na ga dah

3. No to parts A, B and C.

4. Also not necessary. Guns are not a problem when it comes to terrorism. They only kill one at a time, and terrorists wouldn't waste they time on small potatoes like that.

5. Ridiculous.

6. Ridiculous on all three counts.

7. Ditto... Ditto...

8. I agree with Frank here. The policies that President Bush has implemented post 9/11 to deal with security here in the US have worked well. I do however feel that that they could be broadened in some areas. For example, the NSA program. I also think we need to implement a national ID/voter card, so we know who is, and isn't supposed to be here. This also ties to immigration. We need to start being much more careful who we allow to come into this country. The world doesn't have the right to visit America, and for our own well being, we need start being a bit more picky about that.

Now Bill, I just want to clear something up here. When you said "Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq..." was that an acknowledgment that Saddam did in fact have WMD?

[Jesse Hemingway]

President George W Bush has done an excellent job protecting this country since 9/11

That’s a pretty big

SINCE 9/11

[radioguy]

Nope. Not nuf said.

We were attacked 5 weeks after George W. Doofus received
a Presidential Daily Briefing entitled "bin Laden determined to
strike in U.S." which specifically warned that al-Qaeda was
planning to hijack airliners and use them in an attack.

And what was Bush's response? He went on vacation.
Good job, Bushy.

You mean the PDB (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/pdb8-6-2001.pdf)that contained intelligence information that was over a year old on it, that had also been presented to Bill Clinton when he was still in office?

You mean the PDB that said quote "We have not been able to cooberate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from XXXXX service in 1998 saying that Bin laden wanted to hijack US aircraft to gain the release of the blind Shaykh Umar Abd al-rahman and other US-held extremists"? If so Betty, you will notice that it was not cooberated and was from 1998, during the Clinton administration.

Or that same PDB that stated "Never the less, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York"? If so Betty, you should pay close attention to the wording there. It didn't say as you claim, that "al-Qaeda was planning to hijack airliners and use them in an attack." It said they showed a pattern that indicated they might be planning a hijacking, OR other types of attacks. But like former CIA Director George Tenent said in recent interviews, there was no information that indicated what was going to happen on 9/11, or any intelligence information specific enough, that could have prevented it.

The facts always seem to ruin a good Anti-Bush rant, don't they Betty?

[Linkster]

I do however feel that that they could be broadened in some areas. For example, the NSA program. I also think we need to implement a national ID/voter card, so we know who is, and isn't supposed to be here.
Now Bill, I just want to clear something up here. When you said "Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq..." was that an acknowledgment that Saddam did in fact have WMD?

So I guess we can now say the terrorists have already won and destroyed the true American way of life :thumbsup:

As far as the WMDs - Ive been saying all along that they are there and it can be proved - but the special forces group that found them was silenced since they were all marked with labels and invoices from the US

[Linkster]

I suppose I should have pointed out that the reason I know about the WMDs is that one of the special forces decided not to keep quiet about it

[radioguy]

I suppose I should have pointed out that the reason I know about the WMDs is that one of the special forces decided not to keep quiet about it

Got a link to back that up with Linkster?

[Bill]

Now Bill, I just want to clear something up here. When you said "Lets say someone uses the RDX stolen from Iraq..." was that an acknowledgment that Saddam did in fact have WMD?

RDX is an extremely potent and brisant plastic explosive. It's the stuff that's used to make letter bombs, and is inside det cord in very small amounts, along with PETN.

About 700 thousand pounds of these two mysteriously disaappeared in Iraq, during the looting.

You might be thinking of VX, a nerve gas.

[Bill]

One of the most effective tactics al qaeda could use would be sniping attacks. The DC sniper terrified the whole country.

Two two-man teams with one rifle apeice could paralyze this country for months, using random timing and moving from city to city.

They could buy the rifles at any walmart.

What if they used something semiautomatic, like mini-14s or 10/22s, and conducted classic shoot-and-run guerilla attacks on soft targets?

How long would it be before rifles that could be used for sniping, or semi-autos, were banned?

A terrified country attacked by a small group of dedicated shooters might ban anything.

Fear is the enemy.

To be afraid, is to be un-american.

[Linkster]

radioguy

This is the guy:
http://www.davedebatto.com/index.htm
Heres his bio:
http://www.fwaconsultants.com/dave-debatto.htm

Here is an excerpt from the book he wrote about it - sorry its at the antiwar site as he has removed it from his non-members area of his own site since the book was published:
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/debatto.php?articleid=9196

This all occurred at the same time that Sen Santorum was claiming the same thing in congress and was able to get a slightly redacted memo out of the DNI at the time that is located here:
http://instapundit.com/images/Iraqdoc.pdf

The back story on the congressional part is here:
http://austinbay.net/blog/index.php?p=1210

Re-reading his original story I now remember why it was pretty much covered up and I remembered even M Malkin was going ballistic at the time about it:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/06/21/santorum-military-has-found-500-chemical-munitions-shells-in-iraq/
- but she hadnt seen the part from DeBattos book that described when he opened the invoices on the barrels of chemicals they were from a US company - called The Carlyle Group - which at the time meant nothing to him - he was later to find out who they were - and so was the American public - but the story was buried after that.

[radioguy]

RDX is an extremely potent and brisant plastic explosive. It's the stuff that's used to make letter bombs, and is inside det cord in very small amounts, along with PETN.

About 700 thousand pounds of these two mysteriously disaappeared in Iraq, during the looting.

You might be thinking of VX, a nerve gas.

You are correct... I was thinking of nerve gas... My mistake.

[Jesse Hemingway]

Originally Posted by Frankg
President George W Bush has done an excellent job protecting this country since 9/11


That’s a pretty big

SINCE 9/11

The biggest F$KKK up in American history by the biggest F$kkk up in American History george w.bush is a two fer!!! copy right on that:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[radioguy]

radioguy

This is the guy:
http://www.davedebatto.com/index.htm
Heres his bio:
http://www.fwaconsultants.com/dave-debatto.htm

Here is an excerpt from the book he wrote about it - sorry its at the antiwar site as he has removed it from his non-members area of his own site since the book was published:
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/debatto.php?articleid=9196

This all occurred at the same time that Sen Santorum was claiming the same thing in congress and was able to get a slightly redacted memo out of the DNI at the time that is located here:
http://instapundit.com/images/Iraqdoc.pdf

The back story on the congressional part is here:
http://austinbay.net/blog/index.php?p=1210

Re-reading his original story I now remember why it was pretty much covered up and I remembered even M Malkin was going ballistic at the time about it:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/06/21/santorum-military-has-found-500-chemical-munitions-shells-in-iraq/
- but she hadnt seen the part from DeBattos book that described when he opened the invoices on the barrels of chemicals they were from a US company - called The Carlyle Group - which at the time meant nothing to him - he was later to find out who they were - and so was the American public - but the story was buried after that.

I knew about the 500 munitions, but not about the guy who said they were ours... At least I don't remember him. Has anyone else cooberated his accounts? Or are we left with his word only here?

I have to believe, if this guys story was credible, or even believable, the main stream media would have jumped all over this, the way they have jumped on every allegation of American wrong doing since the day we invaded Baghdad.

Thanks for the links though.

[asroc]

They're certainly NOT jumping on every wrongdoing in Iraq. We've barely been told about the scope of the CPA corruption, and a little company called Custer Battles.

[Linkster]

radioguy - there was a lot of backend stuff that went in the book - Ill try to pull it up on linkable pages - but yes it was verified - and he also had it documented on video and photos - unfortunately thats the part that the Senator was trying to get to - but couldnt. The Sgt submitted them through his chain as required and thats the last he saw of them

[Linkster]

Also radioguy - so that you dont think this guy is some kind of left wing nut case or something - heres an audio interview he did on the radio and makes his opinions very starkly

http://www.ourmedia.org/node/56112

[Linkster]

And heres the backstory and some other names to work with on that looting you and Bill were discussing - as this guy Debatto was involved heavily in that trying to get the Generals in charge to stop the looting and getting no where:
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/10/29/anaconda/index.html

[disrupter]

Don't most chemical & biological weapons have a short shelf life?

If they aren't scrupulously maintained don't they degrade given a few years?

[Bobs.Lil.Girl]

Don't most chemical & biological weapons have a short shelf life?

If they aren't scrupulously maintained don't they degrade given a few years?

Kind of looks that way:

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/17/iraq.evidence/index.html


The evidence: What weapons does Iraq have? February 17, 1998
From World Affairs Correspondent Ralph Begleiter

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Intelligence sources familiar with weapons inspections in Iraq admit it has been almost impossible to obtain hard evidence of hidden weapons -- an absence of proof that bolsters the case for using diplomacy to resolve the standoff with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

However, a British government official says Hussein has access to enough biological and chemical weapons to kill a vast number of people.

"He has huge amounts of deadly substances that can kill almost unquantifiable numbers of people," said George Robertson, British defense secretary.

The evidence of Iraq's weapons possession is mostly found in documents and contradictory statements from the Iraqi government.


Hussein used chemical weapons on his own people in 1985
Last September, Iraq denied its own previous admission to having more than 150 bombs filled with biological agents.

In 1996, after years of denials, Baghdad effectively admitted stockpiling about 4,000 tons of chemical weapons precursors and more than 100,000 empty munitions casings -- none of which have been accounted for by the inspection teams.

And, in 1985, Hussein used chemical weapons against his own people to put down an uprising.

But just what may be hidden in the presidential palaces that have been declared off-limits to weapons inspectors remains uncertain.

"We assess that Iraq continues to hide critical (weapons of mass destruction) production equipment and material from U.N. inspectors," said CIA Director George Tenet.

A former U.N. weapons inspector says Iraq has the capacity to produce biological weapons but does not have the weapons themselves.

"You don't have any biological weapons because the shelf life is very short in those things, so you are talking about potential," said Raymond Zilinskas. "Right now, there ... are no weapons of mass destruction readily available to the Iraqis."

Experts believe the equipment needed to produce chemical and biological weapons -- small, easily-moved pieces and vats of gelatin in which biological agents could be grown -- may be hidden in several of the off-limits locations.

"They still have the technicians and the scientists. ... The engineers who are working on the program are still there, and still in place," said Michael Moodie, of the Chemical and Biological Arms Control Institute. "If the international community pulls out, (Hussein) can gear up those people to go back to work."

[stefan segal]

Iraq was armed by bush 1, signed through regan...after a concerted push to change the law against commerce with saddam, to
legally" provide saddam with heilcopters and chemicals to improve their agriculture.

These helicopters were affixed with sprayers adapted for gas warfare...and were not utilized against the iranians as was bush's design, but instead were utilized aginst Kurdish villiages, killing them all.

The administration's claims that they knew EXACTLY how much and what flavor were these weapons of mass destruction, was easily deduced by their own shipping reciepts.

If one were to chronicle the deletorious effects upon our country by the bush clan...beginning with preston bush financing hitler's arms industry....until his bank was siezed for trading with the enemy (1942...we were, if you remember, at war and hurting badly at that time), you will face the obvious destruction of our American ideals and character...to say nothing of our collective wealth as citizens.

This period of bush supremacy is a time of shame as americans.

Stefan

[Americanadian]

Iraq was armed by bush 1, signed through regan...after a concerted push to change the law against commerce with saddam, to
legally" provide saddam with heilcopters and chemicals to improve their agriculture.

These helicopters were affixed with sprayers adapted for gas warfare...and were not utilized against the iranians as was bush's design, but instead were utilized aginst Kurdish villiages, killing them all.

The administration's claims that they knew EXACTLY how much and what flavor were these weapons of mass destruction, was easily deduced by their own shipping reciepts.

If one were to chronicle the deletorious effects upon our country by the bush clan...beginning with preston bush financing hitler's arms industry....until his bank was siezed for trading with the enemy (1942...we were, if you remember, at war and hurting badly at that time), you will face the obvious destruction of our American ideals and character...to say nothing of our collective wealth as citizens.

This period of bush supremacy is a time of shame as americans.

Stefan


Good ol' Prescott Bush and Harriman. In fact, I posted a nice long article about them here:
http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=31199

[Jesse Hemingway]

Good ol' Prescott Bush and Harriman. In fact, I posted a nice long article about them here:
http://scam.com/showthread.php?t=31199

Don't stop there:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Prescott+Bush+Nazi+UBC+1942%22&btnG=Google+Search

[stefan segal]

Americanadian...great link....I haven't pursued WWII very much, and prescott is dead...but its usefull to view the tree that these bad apples are falling so close to.

bush #1 is a great piece of shit also...his bullshit son (s) is even less capable and flawed for actual life among competors he can't have killed or threaten.

Stefan