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Citizen
08-23-2010, 03:19 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-23/housing-slide-in-u-s-may-drag-economy-into-recession-as-foreclosures-rise.html

Housing led the U.S. out of seven of the last eight recessions. This time, it may kill the recovery.

Home sales collapsed after a federal tax credit for buyers expired in April. Since then, the manufacturing-led expansion, which began in the second half of 2009, has been waning, with jobless claims rising and factory orders falling.

“If foreclosures continue to mount and depress home prices, that could send the economy back into a recession,” said Celia Chen, an economist who tracks the industry for Moody’s Analytics Inc. “The housing market and the broader economy are closely intertwined.”

Spending on home construction and items such as furniture and stoves accounted for about 15 percent of gross domestic product in the second quarter, according to West Chester, Pennsylvania-based Moody’s Analytics. Real estate also can influence consumer spending indirectly. When values soared in the mid-2000s, people used the boost in equity to pay for cars and vacations. After prices fell, homeowners lost that cushion and curbed spending.

A report tomorrow by the Chicago-based National Association of Realtors will show July sales of existing homes plummeted 12.9 percent from June, the biggest monthly loss of 2010, according to the median estimate of economists surveyed by Bloomberg.

New-home sales, which account for less than a 10th of housing transactions, stayed at the second-lowest level on record last month, economists predict Commerce Department data will show on Aug. 25.

Housing in ‘Doldrums’

“Housing continues to be stuck in the doldrums,” said Jeffrey Frankel, a member of the business-cycle dating committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research, the arbiter of when U.S. recessions begin and end, and a professor at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

With 14.6 million Americans out of work, homeowners are struggling to hold onto their properties. One in seven mortgages were delinquent or in foreclosure during the first quarter, the highest in records dating to 1979, according to the Washington- based Mortgage Bankers Association. Foreclosures probably will top 1 million this year, said RealtyTrac Inc., an Irvine, California-based data company.

Federal efforts to help have had little success. Of 1.31 million loan modifications started under the Obama administration’s Home Affordable Modification Program, 48 percent were canceled by the end of July, the Treasury Department said Aug. 20. More than half of all modifications defaulted again within 12 months, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency said June 23.

Sidelined Buyers

Shadow inventory, or the number of homes repossessed or in default that eventually will be offered for sale, stood at 7.3 million in the first quarter, according to Laurie Goodman, an analyst in New York at mortgage-bond broker Amherst Securities Group LP. As those properties hit the market, prices will come under pressure and buyers will wait for better deals.

Those sidelined house hunters include Marion and Jim Lasswell, who said they spend most weekends looking at homes for sale near Raleigh, North Carolina. His engineering job at iRobot Corp. is secure, the couple’s credit is good and they have saved enough for a 20 percent down payment, Marion Lasswell said. The problem: they don’t think the market has hit bottom.

“We’re still watching prices drop,” Lasswell, 38, a registered nurse, said in a telephone interview. She said they won’t buy “until there’s an awesome deal.”

GDP Weakens

Home prices tumbled 33 percent from their July 2006 peak to the low in April 2009, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller 20-city index. They may drop another 20 percent by 2012 if the economy slips back into a recession, according to Chen, the Moody’s Analytics economist.

Gross domestic product increased less than 1.5 percent in the second quarter, the slowest rate since the recovery began, according to the median forecast by economists in a Bloomberg survey. That’s down from the 2.4 percent rate initially reported by the Commerce Department last month. Growth may ease to 1.3 percent by the first quarter of next year, according to the New York-based Conference Board.

Consumer spending rose 1.6 percent in the second quarter, down from 1.9 percent in the previous three months. Purchases of home furnishings and appliances fell 1.7 percent to an annual pace of $256.5 billion in June from a 2010 high in April, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

“There is an epidemic of thrift,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Inc. in Lexington, Massachusetts. “Households and businesses are super-cautious right now. Sometime in the next 6 to 12 months, we’ll start to see more movement on home and car purchases and greater willingness on the part of businesses to hire.”

Fed Steps In

Federal Reserve policy makers on Aug. 10 made their first attempt to shore up the recovery by pledging to keep their holdings of securities and prevent money from draining out of the banking system. They said the economic expansion probably will be “more modest” than earlier anticipated. The Fed has held the target for its benchmark lending rate near zero since December 2008 and purchased $1.43 trillion worth of debt to keep rates low and bolster housing.

“Household spending is increasing gradually, but remains constrained by high unemployment, modest income growth, lower housing wealth and tight credit,” the Fed said in a statement.

Buying Plans

The average U.S. rate for a 30-year fixed mortgage dropped to 4.44 percent in the second week of August, the lowest recorded by McLean, Virginia-based Freddie Mac, the second- largest mortgage buyer. A July survey by the Conference Board found 1.9 percent of the respondents planned to buy a home in the next six months, near December’s 27-year low of 1.7 percent.

A sustained economic recovery depends on the job growth required to boost consumer spending, said Behravesh of IHS. The unemployment rate may average 9.6 percent this year, based on the median estimate of economists in a Bloomberg survey. That would be the highest annual rate since 1983.

Home construction and property sales led the way out of the previous seven recessions going back to 1960, according to PMI Group Inc., a mortgage insurer in Walnut Creek, California. New- home sales improved an average of eight months before the beginning of economic growth, and single-family housing starts improved seven months before recovery.

That didn’t happen in the last recession. Sales of new houses fell in five of the eight months before economic expansion began in 2009’s second half. Housing starts fell in two of seven months.

While the Lasswells in North Carolina said they’ll keep spending their weekends looking at homes, they aren’t in a hurry to buy. “I don’t see things getting better,” Marion Lasswell said. “I expect prices to be flat for a long time.”

Hawkeye2j
08-25-2010, 10:29 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-23/housing-slide-in-u-s-may-drag-economy-into-recession-as-foreclosures-rise.html
Yet mortgage applications rose five percent. Imagine that.

Citizen
08-25-2010, 11:44 AM
Yet mortgage applications rose five percent. Imagine that.

Imagine you trying to spin off positive news from a shitty recovery? No way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100825/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy



WASHINGTON – The economic recovery appears to be stalling as companies cut back last month on their investments in equipment and machines and Americans bought new homes at the weakest pace in decades.

Overall orders for big-ticket manufactured goods increased 0.3 percent in July, the Commerce Department said Wednesday. But that was only because of a 76 percent jump in demand for commercial aircraft.

Taking out the volatile transportation category, orders for durable goods fell at the steepest rate since January. And business orders for capital goods took their sharpest drop since January 2009, when the economy was stuck in the deepest recession in decades.

Separately, Commerce said new home sales fell 12.4 percent in July from a month earlier to a seasonally adjusted annual sales pace of 276,600. That was the slowest pace on records dating back to 1963. Collectively, the past three months have been the worst on record for new home sales.

The weak sales mean fewer jobs in the construction industry, which normally powers economic recoveries. Each new home built creates, on average, the equivalent of three jobs for a year and generates about $90,000 in taxes, according to the National Association of Home Builders.

The two reports are likely to stoke fears that the economy is on the verge of slipping back into a recession. They follow Tuesday's report that showed sales of previously owned homes fell last month to the lowest level in decades. Unemployment remains near double digits and job growth in the private sector is slowing.

"The rebound in manufacturing was one of the bright spots in an otherwise disappointing recovery," said Paul Ashworth, senior U.S. economist at Capital Economics. "Take it away, throw in a relapse in housing, and you don't have much left."

Factory orders are a key measure of the economic recovery. Manufacturers have helped to lead the rebound. They filled orders for businesses that were building up stocks after whittling them down during the recession.

But many companies are done restocking, cooling demand for factory goods.

Demand for durable goods has mostly risen in recent months. Orders are 15.6 percent higher than they were a year ago. Excluding transportation, demand has increased in all but two months this year.

Overall orders in June declined by a revised 1.0 percent. But excluding transportation, orders rose 0.2 percent. Spending by businesses increased 3.6 percent that month — a rare bright spot.

Durable goods are expected to last three years or more. The full survey of factory orders will be released next week.

Housing has never fully recovered from the recession. Builders have been forced to compete with foreclosed properties offered at significantly lower prices.

New home sales made up only about 7 percent of the housing market last year. That's down from about 15 percent before the bust.

The industry received a boost this spring when the government offered tax credits to homebuyers. But since they expired in April, the number of people looking to buy homes has dropped, even with bargain prices and the lowest mortgage rates in decades available.

More than 600,000 new homes were sold annually from 1983 through 2007. After the housing bubble popped, sales plunged to 375,000 last year. That was the weakest yearly total on record.

Builders have sharply scaled back construction in the face of weak sales. The number of new homes up for sale at the end of July was unchanged at 210,000, the lowest level in about 40 years.

Due to the sluggish sales pace, it would still take more than nine months to exhaust that supply, above a healthy level of about six months.

New home sales were down nationwide. They fell by more than 25 percent from a month earlier in the West, 14 percent in the Northeast, 9 percent in the South and 8 percent in the Midwest.

The median sales price in July was $204,000. That was down 4.8 percent from a year earlier and down 6 percent from June.

Libertarian94
08-25-2010, 11:51 AM
Well thats where Keynesian economics gets us.

Moby
08-25-2010, 11:57 AM
Since housing was the economy for many years and the cause of the economic crash in 2006, I don't see how it could be part of the recovery this time.

There are just too many Americans under water on their homes.

So while this is bad news, I think it has been expected.

Cookie
08-25-2010, 02:45 PM
I read an article in the paper over the weekend that said housing MUST be part of the recovery if we are to recover at all.

That's how hugely important this economic indicator is.
________
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Dale escondido
08-25-2010, 04:09 PM
We always seem to think we need to get back to the value of housing for recovery.
Maybe they were NEVER worth what they sold for?
Maybe taking away the consumers every increasing home atm cards scared them silly?
This recovery is going to be about out thinking the beliefs we had in an artificial ecomony.
People on a whole are starting to think right and realize they need to modify their desire for goods for the sake of goods.
Everything has to adjust to the new norm and we need private sector jobs especially manufacturing to come home.

Cookie
08-25-2010, 04:25 PM
We always seem to think we need to get back to the value of housing for recovery.
Maybe they were NEVER worth what they sold for?
Maybe taking away the consumers every increasing home atm cards scared them silly?
This recovery is going to be about out thinking the beliefs we had in an artificial ecomony.
People on a whole are starting to think right and realize they need to modify their desire for goods for the sake of goods.
Everything has to adjust to the new norm and we need private sector jobs especially manufacturing to come home.

When talking about housing as an economic indicator, it's not just the value of homes reaching their former levels. That's only the tip of the iceberg. Housing industry encompasses a tremendous amout of jobs, from the guy who sets foundation forms, to the concrete vendor, to the union guys who do the construction, to the foremen who run the projects, to the architects and on and on. So many people are involved, that when the housing market takes a downturn, layoffs occur, creating stress in the economy on a national level. This is the effect we are seeing now.

Wishing for mfg. jobs to return may not be realistic. If new jobs were created, perhaps in green energy or such, would there be enough to take up the slack created by the downturn in the housing mkt? Not for a long time.
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Dale escondido
08-25-2010, 04:41 PM
When talking about housing as an economic indicator, it's not just the value of homes reaching their former levels. That's only the tip of the iceberg. Housing industry encompasses a tremendous amout of jobs, from the guy who sets foundation forms, to the concrete vendor, to the union guys who do the construction, to the foremen who run the projects, to the architects and on and on. So many people are involved, that when the housing market takes a downturn, layoffs occur, creating stress in the economy on a national level. This is the effect we are seeing now.

Wishing for mfg. jobs to return may not be realistic. If new jobs were created, perhaps in green energy or such, would there be enough to take up the slack created by the downturn in the housing mkt? Not for a long time.

Yeah but what if the value never existed?
That's my point on it.
How do we handle all the side effects of the amount of money generated for those jobs that was really just a bloated economy?
Housing can't lead us out of this one imo.
We are naturally moving away from an ultra consumption society and will feel much pain.
Green is great and needed but it is too costly to lead anything right now.
A breakthrough would be great, but we can"t count on that.
We do need incentive to bring business back and thats been discussed alot.
But if we just return to the same as before we need a new bubble to fuel it as it won't be housing for decades.

Cookie
08-25-2010, 04:44 PM
Yeah but what if the value never existed?
That's my point on it.
How do we handle all the side effects of the amount of money generated for those jobs that was really just a bloated economy?
Housing can't lead us out of this one imo.
We are naturally moving away from an ultra consumption society and will feel much pain.
Green is great and needed but it is too costly to lead anything right now.
A breakthrough would be great, but we can"t count on that.
We do need incentive to bring business back and thats been discussed alot.
But if we just return to the same as before we need a new bubble to fuel it as it won't be housing for decades.

I don't believe housing will return to the past inflated levels either, at least not in the short run, where we need to get people back to work. But, housing will be needed to employ at least some of the laid off workers. Unfortunately, there's nothing at present to take it's place.
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Dale escondido
08-25-2010, 04:49 PM
I don't believe housing will return to the past inflated levels either, at least not in the short run, where we need to get people back to work. But, housing will be needed to employ at least some of the laid off workers. Unfortunately, there's nothing at present to take it's place.

Yeah lets hope for some positive here.
We need alot of help in many areas but mostly peole are going to have to learn to do with less for a good while.

Cookie
08-25-2010, 05:13 PM
Yeah lets hope for some positive here.
We need alot of help in many areas but mostly peole are going to have to learn to do with less for a good while.

Yes Dale, and it will be forced upon us. And, as long as we are forced to live a more austere life, the economy won't have much of a recovery. It's a vicious circle.
________
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MintJulep
08-25-2010, 06:24 PM
Imagine you trying to spin off positive news from a shitty recovery? No way.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100825/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy :lmao2::lmao2:

So absurd it's comical.

Mike D.
08-25-2010, 06:27 PM
:lmao2::lmao2:

So absurd it's comical.

Maybe instead of "Hope and Change" Obama's 2012 slogan can be "Desperation and Spare Change."

FredK
08-25-2010, 06:31 PM
Well throw out 12-20 million illegals and watch that market tank big time. :banghead:

Got to be a better solution to the mix. Too bad either side doesn't have it. :disbelief:

MintJulep
08-25-2010, 06:41 PM
Maybe instead of "Hope and Change" Obama's 2012 slogan can be "Desperation and Spare Change."Perfect............

Hawkeye2j
08-25-2010, 09:24 PM
Perfect............
Watching Minty attack Obama, is like going to a fire and blaming the firemen for the blaze.

Citizen
08-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Watching Minty attack Obama, is like going to a fire and blaming the firemen for the blaze.

Your hypocrisy is amusing.

doctordog
08-25-2010, 10:25 PM
Watching Minty attack Obama, is like going to a fire and blaming the firemen for the blaze.

Actually it is like spraying roundup for weeds.

Moby
08-30-2010, 10:09 PM
I read an article in the paper over the weekend that said housing MUST be part of the recovery if we are to recover at all.

That's how hugely important this economic indicator is.
2006 was also the first time that such a major loss of wealth occurred because of housing. This is first in history for many things. It is very possible that the economy will never recover from the first decade of 2000.

Trinnity
08-30-2010, 10:19 PM
Your hypocrisy is amusing.

Actually it is like spraying roundup for weeds.

It's coming...................................... :thumbsup:

NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember NOvember :taunt:

Cookie
08-31-2010, 03:06 PM
IMHO, the best thing we can do for this economy is to elect conservatives to congress and the senate, and repeal Obamacare and the other damaging legislation that has passed.

Additionally, extend the tax cuts expiring at year end. Get a handle on spending and borrowing, and then let businesses and the market relax. I think we would see some real progress soon afterward in the creation of jobs.

One thing for sure, we cannot afford to let the democrats stay in power.
________
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Hawkeye2j
08-31-2010, 08:07 PM
IMHO, the best thing we can do for this economy is to elect conservatives to congress and the senate, and repeal Obamacare and the other damaging legislation that has passed.

Additionally, extend the tax cuts expiring at year end. Get a handle on spending and borrowing, and then let businesses and the market relax. I think we would see some real progress soon afterward in the creation of jobs.

One thing for sure, we cannot afford to let the democrats stay in power.
How? You want to cut taxes for the rich at the expense of the middle class and that helps businesses? You need the middle class to buy the products. Economics 101.

doctordog
08-31-2010, 08:16 PM
How? You want to cut taxes for the rich at the expense of the middle class and that helps businesses? You need the middle class to buy the products. Economics 101.

The energy and environmental legislation coming down the pipe at state and federal levels will have the middle class struggling to pay their electric bills.

Hawkeye2j
08-31-2010, 08:19 PM
The energy and environmental legislation coming down the pipe at state and federal levels will have the middle class struggling to pay their electric bills.
First of all none of that has passed although it should. Dependency on oil is going to cost consumers in the long run. This nation can no longer afford to look just short term.

Cookie
08-31-2010, 08:43 PM
How? You want to cut taxes for the rich at the expense of the middle class and that helps businesses? You need the middle class to buy the products. Economics 101.

Econ 102 -- If the rich don't make a dollar, you won't make a dime.


If businesses have the higher taxation burder lifted by the republicans, perhaps they will spend some of that cash they are sitting on and hire some of the middle class who have been out of work over the past 2 years.
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Hawkeye2j
08-31-2010, 09:03 PM
Econ 102 -- If the rich don't make a dollar, you won't make a dime.


If businesses have the higher taxation burder lifted by the republicans, perhaps they will spend some of that cash they are sitting on and hire some of the middle class who have been out of work over the past 2 years.
The rich can't make a dollar if they can't sell their products.