Syrian Nukes

[Smurf-Herder]

Hi, I'm new here.

So lets start it off with a bang:

Israel targeted N. Korean nuclear equipment
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3449719,00.html

"Israel had been mulling an airstrike against Syrian targets since late spring, after Mossad chief Meir Dagan presented Prime Minister Ehud Olmert with evidence that Damascus was seeking to buy a nuclear device from North Korea, the London Sunday Times reported.

An Israeli official told the newspaper that the spy chief feared the device could be fitted on Scud-C missiles and used in future military conflicts with Israel."

Does this worry anyone, but me?

[Linkster]

Doesnt worry me a bit - will help balance the power in the middle east - kinda sad that Israel was allowed for years to have the superiority

[Linkster]

I should have prefaced my post with the fact that this would be good - if in fact it were true - but as we predicted three weeks ago as did some others - this is just AIPAC and the media responding to Cheneys request to up the propaganda against other "terror-list" countries

[Smurf-Herder]

After years of hearing these dreamy-dream altruistic, pie-in-the-sky defense of our enemies, I'm starting to get a kick out of hearing it.

Thank you.

[Linkster]

You think that I should be concerned about the welfare of others(altruism to the max) - thats a hell of a thing to tell an objectivist :lmao2:

Who needs to defend "our enemies" ? You obviously feel some need to make them enemies so you must be totally behind the Israeli legacy based on religion - which automatically puts us discussing things on two different levels - you obviously believe in religion and its role in world politics - and I dont

[Bill]

I'm still waiting to see more after-action reports.

If they hit anything nuclear the radiation detectors ought to be picking up traces in the wind soon.

I'd love to see photos of the attack site.

An all out mideast war would make for great television.

We'll be needing that draft then.

[radioguy]

this is just AIPAC and the media responding to Cheneys request to up the propaganda against other "terror-list" countries

Where did you get that information from Linkster?

I would love to believe you, but I would need a link to the source of your information before i accepted it as fact.

[Linkster]

Bill - radiation detectors wont pick up anything - unless they had an active reactor running - the small amount of radioactive contamination that is dispersed from destroying anything like warheads or nuclear fuel (which is not very radioactive when it hasnt been put in a reactor yet - you can hold it in your hand with no ill effects) - would be immediately be rendered to such a low level in the large amount of air that monitors that we run cant see it.

If you need some links to the actual levels that the monitors can see Ill try to dig up some of my old papers on detector theory I wrote many years ago :thumbsup:

radioguy - the only real source that I know of that follows these things is inside a membership based site - I can see if I can pull out some of the stuff there, but Im also (in this case) just making a statement of my beliefs based on previous history and the announcements made by the French PM yesterday as well as some previous similar operations run by AIPAC. Ill see what I can track down that pertains to this case - but again this is my opinion only

[radioguy]

radioguy - the only real source that I know of that follows these things is inside a membership based site - I can see if I can pull out some of the stuff there, but Im also (in this case) just making a statement of my beliefs based on previous history and the announcements made by the French PM yesterday as well as some previous similar operations run by AIPAC. Ill see what I can track down that pertains to this case - but again this is my opinion only

Well, even though you have now changed your accusation, to an opinion (only after I called you on it), you still need to provide a source to back up that opinion. If you can't provide one that is credible, then that is what is called a "Baseless opinion".

[Linkster]

an accusation is an opinion - and I stand by that opinion
The best source I know of is Wayne Madsen's site - former NSA and pretty much straight shooting on AIPAC - he does get out there on some other issues - like I said there are some membership sites but I will hunt around for the info for you since you are willing to take them seriously

[radioguy]

an accusation is an opinion - and I stand by that opinion
The best source I know of is Wayne Madsen's site - former NSA and pretty much straight shooting on AIPAC - he does get out there on some other issues - like I said there are some membership sites but I will hunt around for the info for you since you are willing to take them seriously

link please

[Linkster]

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20070406_24

http://www.wbpnet.org/Research%20Library/Cheney/Cheny%20Palme%20Nuclear%20Smuggling%20WMR.pdf

[Bill]

Linkster, I was under the impression that if a warhead detonates without implosion or conflagrates, there's a plume of pulverized and vaporised plutonium. I would have thought such a plume would be detectable. But, I don't know for sure, I only know what I've read about the posible results of a non-nuclear detonation accident of warheads.

It's a shame to think that it can't be proved if there were conventional nuclear materials or processing equipment at the attack site.

Nuclear materials from Korea in Syria doesn't really make a lot of sense. Nor do nuclear materials from Iran.

It was probably just long range missile sites.

[Linkster]

When it is dispersed in a conventional explosion (which if you were destroying a warhead would also involve the HE- high explosive used as the trigger) - the amount actually going airborne is pretty small - normally we use 10% as a round number that would be dispersed - the rest staying on the ground. Of course climate conditions have an effect on that. There could be some downwind increase in calculated cancer rate (I seem to remember the US doing a study using Puget Sound having an accidental non-nuclear explosion of warheads and calculating the dispersal to Seattle where once the aerosol is inhaled it can increase the risk of cancer by a small percentage)

The Plutonium - usually the isotopes 239 and 240 are the primary components with 239 about 94% - will decay which is what gives off a "radioactive particle" that we can measure - unfortunately gives off an alpha (also known as a helium particle) which with todays monitoring capabilities requires that you be within a quarter of an inch to the particle to see it effectively. This is also why it is not a radiation hazard to carry the weapons around on ships or planes. Alpha particles can be shielded with a piece of paper - the radioactive particles can only travel about 3 or 4 cm (dependant on their energy) and cannot penetrate skin

Of course if you were downwind and breathed the concentration of the released plutonium you would be able to detect the increased levels in a urine sample

[Smurf-Herder]

Think out of the box, people.

Syria-Iran-North Korea = Joint projects.

The North Korean tests were their tests.

Syrian deployment increases the range.

[Smurf-Herder]

You think that I should be concerned about the welfare of others(altruism to the max) - thats a hell of a thing to tell an objectivist :lmao2:

Who needs to defend "our enemies" ? You obviously feel some need to make them enemies so you must be totally behind the Israeli legacy based on religion - which automatically puts us discussing things on two different levels - you obviously believe in religion and its role in world politics - and I dont

You can't deal with "real" enemies.

And you have to paint me into some stereotype to avoid the real problem.

[Smurf-Herder]

I'm still waiting to see more after-action reports.

If they hit anything nuclear the radiation detectors ought to be picking up traces in the wind soon.

I'd love to see photos of the attack site.

An all out mideast war would make for great television.

We'll be needing that draft then.

Everybody's being super quiet on what exactly happened. Some reports involve primarily a missile base; with intel on the nuclear sites. But this is a strange twist, it seems:

Olmert offers peace negotiations to Syria, but mum on reported attack
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/18/africa/ME-GEN-Israel-Syria.php

North Korea is pissed, though.

(If it's true, they may have lost a few technicians.)

[Smurf-Herder]

Now this is insane:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411432622&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Syria voted co-chairman of UN watchdog

"Two weeks after Israel's alleged bombing raid in Syria, which some foreign reports said targeted North Korean nuclear material, the UN's nuclear watchdog elected Syria as deputy chairman of its General Conference on Monday.

The 51st session of the General Conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) opened in Vienna on Monday and will run through Friday."

[Smurf-Herder]

An update:

N Korean ship 'linked to Israel's strike on Syria'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/17/wsyria117.xml

Records on N. Korean ship docked in Syria were altered
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/903955.html

[Smurf-Herder]

Apparently we've been watching them.

Israel, U.S. Shared Data On Suspected Nuclear Site
Bush Was Told of North Korean Presence in Syria, Sources Say
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/20/AR2007092002701.html

It sure looks like Syria and Iran are gearing up for something.

Blast at secret Syrian missile site kills dozens
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2489930.ece

[AdamJ]

Doesnt worry me a bit - will help balance the power in the middle east - kinda sad that Israel was allowed for years to have the superiority
:disbelief:
Wow .... Israel's military advantage is the only thing preventing war in the Middle East. I can't believe you seriously feel like that.

[Jesse Hemingway]

:disbelief:
Wow .... Israel's military advantage is the only thing preventing war in the Middle East. I can't believe you seriously feel like that.
Who said that?

[Jesse Hemingway]

Think out of the box, people.

Syria-Iran-North Korea = Joint projects.

The North Korean tests were their tests.

Syrian deployment increases the range.

A lot of talk where is the mushroom cloud.

Who ever pulls the trigger first will be incinerated Europe is directly down wind of the fall out plume.

[Linkster]

:disbelief:
Wow .... Israel's military advantage is the only thing preventing war in the Middle East. I can't believe you seriously feel like that.

I dont believe I said that - I said the power balance has been one sided for a long time and needs to be brought into a good balance for deterrent purposes -
similar to what the US did in India - with a state that is not a part of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty - giving them a way to set up a balance with Pakistan - although we knew that they had weapons, Bush refused to require them to become a part of the treaty in 2006 and even agreed to exempt them from inspections at their breeder reactors.

So far - although everyone in the world knows that Israel was given nuclear weapons tech by the french and the US has known about their capability - and a good estimate of their total arsenal for years (starting in 1958) - no one has required them to join the treaty either.

[Smurf-Herder]

A lot of talk where is the mushroom cloud.

Who ever pulls the trigger first will be incinerated Europe is directly down wind of the fall out plume.

What if the plan is to use EMPs to destroy Europe economically, with no fallout?

Besides, the people who would be crazy enough to do it are religious nutcases that want to bring on Armagedon so the Madhi will return, and consider every death on their side a martyr for the cause.

And Iranian missiles in Syria would be under the control of the Iranian IRGC and Hezbollah.

[Smurf-Herder]

North Korea's No. 2 leader meets Syrian delegation amid nuclear suspicions
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iNHOcM1uj9PzD_yRG4VJZ0oxDtiQ

[TheCenturion]

Who said that?

A complete delusional wacko. Israel launches unprovoked attacks on its sovereign neighbor Lebanon - and then Syria, ostensibly, for acquiring the same material Israel itself has. And that's supposed to represent an act of peace to these Zionist nut-jobs. It just doesn't get any more idiotic...or dangerous.