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radioguy
09-17-2007, 06:56 AM
Iraq veteran from N.Y. urges Clinton, Schumer and Congress to choose victory
BY JEFF NUDING
NY Daily News
Sunday, September 16th 2007

Dear Senators and Representatives:

You shared in starting this war, now you want to end it, without regard for our progress, or the consequence of defeat?

I served in Iraq two years ago, at your request. We have a saying in the noncommissioned officer corps, "I get my power from Congress." That's you.

As a first sergeant, I led 160 soldiers from a New York Army National Guard military intelligence battalion. When politicos and pundits talk about a surge, men and women like us serve as the vital fluids that form the waves.

We deployed about two-and-a-half years after the initial invasion, which toppled Saddam Hussein and destroyed and scattered his military. My job was to continue that mission. Prepare convoys. Keep my troops focused. Make sure they ate, drank water, got necessary rest. Keep them safe, get them home.

We ran over a hundred convoys. We withstood mortar attacks, a rocket sailed right over our billets, a nearby vehicle-borne improvised explosive device rained car parts and shrapnel down around us. A rocket hit the dining facility, and mortars hit its parking lot. One sailor attached to us, having a late night smoke, lost his legs when a mortar landed at his feet.

We aggressively identified terrorist cells and local area anti-coalition forces for targeting. Our ground surveillance radar guys ran missions with Army scouts in remote areas, survived IEDs and a complex ambush. We came back home knowing there was more job to be done, but we knew we'd done well.

We did our job. Why are you resigned to failure?

Back in 2003, you — including both of my senators, Charles Schumer and Hillary Clinton — voted to authorize the President to take military action. You voted, and by virtue of your authority, that means the U.S. government went to war.

You approved the appointment of Gen. David Petraeus, who last week sat in front of your committees and explained the progress of the war and the difficulties of the way ahead. It was an honest and forthright assessment from a soldier who thinks the military can achieve our objectives and that the military can create the environment for real change in Iraq.

Critics seemed to tune him out even before he began. They seem to believe that this war has already been too long and too painful to continue. Sen. Clinton, you rejected Gen. Petraeus' testimony as a "positive view of a grim situation," stating that accepting his testimony at face value required a "willing suspension of disbelief."

I wonder if being a politician means knowing how to call your opponent an opportunist and a liar to his face, without ever stating it plain.

I voted for you in 2000. Could I take that vote back, the way you seem to want to take back your vote to authorize force?

My soldiers know about the long and painful costs of war. All of us left our civilian jobs for a year and a half, and left our families and loved ones behind. Some lost their families or their marriages, and some lost their grip on home or health.

Yet none of us in the military serve under any illusion. We know what we signed up for. That's why so many of us reenlist.

Wars take time. They require steady will and determination. They compel commitment.

If fighting Saddam Hussein, and later Al Qaeda, in Iraq was important when earlier in this mission, they should still be important today. Al Qaeda is badly wounded there and elsewhere, but they aren't dead yet. Iraq is making gains as a democratic nation, but they still need help. They still need time.

Dear Senators and Representatives, you criticize President Bush relentlessly — picking apart the speech he gave last week with withering words, looking for any and every chance to bring him down.

But at least he maintains steady attention to this war. At least he seems to grasp the stakes of losing and the danger of giving up. Not so Congress.

Leaders influence the morale of their people, for good or bad. I wish you wanted to lead your constituents toward victory rather than defeat.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/09/16/2007-09-16_iraq_veteran_from_ny_urges_clinton_schum.html

Bill
09-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Don't cut and run!

Choose VICTORY!

The troops can WIN!

Iraq will surrender any day now!

Iraqis can't resist US weapons!

Moby
09-17-2007, 10:22 PM
Exactly how do we win this thing?

It was supposed to be a 6 month war at the most but now we're going on 10 years. We lost the opportunity to gather support from the people by placing incompetents in charge of the rebuilding.

It's kind of like a never ending basketball game. If there's no time limit then the you really can't loose until you quit. But after 30 hours when the score is 1,200 to 340 isn't it about time for someone to just stop playing?

radioguy
09-17-2007, 11:03 PM
Exactly how do we win this thing?

It was supposed to be a 6 month war at the most but now we're going on 10 years.

I believe General Patraeus outlined for everyone how the war can be won, last Tuesday in his testimony to congress.

I'm also curious where you got the Idea that the war in Iraq was only supposed to be 6 months? I very clearly remember the president and members of his administration telling the American people before we invaded Iraq, that the war in Iraq could take several years to resolve.

Linkster
09-18-2007, 12:37 AM
On the March 16, 2003, broadcast of CBS' Face the Nation, Cheney stated: "I think [the war will] go relatively quickly." When host Bob Schieffer pressed the vice president to offer a more precise estimate of how long the war would take, Cheney replied: "Weeks rather than months." On NBC's Meet the Press the same day, Cheney stated, "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators [by the Iraqi people]."

In a February 7, 2003, appearance at Aviano Air Base in Italy, Rumsfeld projected that the Iraq war "could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

TheCenturion
09-18-2007, 01:07 AM
On the March 16, 2003, broadcast of CBS' Face the Nation, Cheney stated: "I think [the war will] go relatively quickly." When host Bob Schieffer pressed the vice president to offer a more precise estimate of how long the war would take, Cheney replied: "Weeks rather than months." On NBC's Meet the Press the same day, Cheney stated, "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators [by the Iraqi people]."

In a February 7, 2003, appearance at Aviano Air Base in Italy, Rumsfeld projected that the Iraq war "could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."


When you're dealing with right-wing fascist fanatics who put their partisan cult before their country and above their countrymen, the facts are totally irrelevant. They simply make up their own "facts" to fit the agenda as they go along. Cheney has turned it into a science.

radioguy
09-18-2007, 01:09 AM
On the March 16, 2003, broadcast of CBS' Face the Nation, Cheney stated: "I think [the war will] go relatively quickly." When host Bob Schieffer pressed the vice president to offer a more precise estimate of how long the war would take, Cheney replied: "Weeks rather than months." On NBC's Meet the Press the same day, Cheney stated, "my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators [by the Iraqi people]."

In a February 7, 2003, appearance at Aviano Air Base in Italy, Rumsfeld projected that the Iraq war "could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

Sorry Linkster, but your record tonight concerning your information being accurate is pretty bad. Please link me to the transcripts of those interviews and speeches, so I can here exactly what context those quotes were given in.

Thank you.

disrupter
09-18-2007, 01:31 AM
The neonuts keep on pushing the button that is labeled 'victory' but nothing happens.

Perhaps if they had plugged in the machine before they moved its mass infront of the outlet . . . ?

nah.

qualifications to be a neocon,
you don't exactly have to be a rocket scientist,
in fact thinking is STRONGLY discouraged.

well, crooked & corrupt thinking is ok, but honest, intelligent, light-of-day logic is a ticket for expulsion.

compulsive emotion, with no forethought & only wild bizarre afterthoughts.
these people are not in touch with rational reality.
it is all mysticism, metaphysics, & no math, no science & no bean counting.

neocon plan to screw in a lightbulb:
hire an outsourced consulting firm for 7.3 million dollars to draw up a plan,
classify all the instruction documents so the janitor is not allowed to read them,
then wonder why we are all sitting around in the dark . . .

neocon conclusion: must be those gays or islamofascists who did this to us,
so lets blow up all of creation so we can go home to our presumed rewards.

Linkster
09-18-2007, 01:41 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/17/ftn/main544228.shtml?source=search_story
For Face the Nation

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1900
For Rumsfelds remarks

radioguy
09-18-2007, 03:20 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/17/ftn/main544228.shtml?source=search_story
For Face the Nation

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=1900
For Rumsfelds remarks

You are correct and I was wrong. That is what he said. He did however qualify it by saying that we can't count on that estimate.


SCHIEFFER: If we do have to take action, do you think it will be a long war or a short war?

CHENEY: My own judgment based on my time as secretary of Defense, and having operated in this area in the past, I'm confident that our troops will be successful, and I think it'll go relatively quickly, but we can't...

SCHIEFFER: Weeks?

CHENEY: ...we can't count on that.

SCHIEFFER: Months?

CHENEY: Weeks rather than months. There's always the possibility of complications that you can't anticipate, but I have great confidence in our troops. The men and women who serve in our military today are superb. Our capabilities as a force are the finest the world has ever known.
They're very ably led by General Tommy Franks and Secretary Rumsfeld. And so I have great confidence in the conduct of the military campaign. The really...

SCHIEFFER: Par...

CHENEY: ...challenging part of it to some extent may come in the aftermath once the military segment is over and we move to try and stand up a new government and turn over to the Iraqi people the responsibilities to their nation.


I still remember the president telling the American people that it might take several years to stabilize Iraq. I'll see if I can find that speech.

disrupter
09-18-2007, 03:32 AM
Neonuts, neurotic candy eaters.

Nuts & candy. lol

Smurf-Herder
09-18-2007, 10:11 PM
From what I see Radioguy quoted:

"CHENEY: ...challenging part of it to some extent may come in the aftermath once the military segment is over and we move to try and stand up a new government and turn over to the Iraqi people the responsibilities to their nation."

It appears what you originally quoted him as saying was refering to the taking down of Saddam's army, in the "military segment" - we are now in the "aftermath" part, of setting up a new government, with different enemies than when Cheney spoke.

What Cheney meant is very clear - unless you take quotes out of context.

disrupter
09-18-2007, 11:59 PM
Cheney was probably one of those neodummies who imagined they would be greeted with fawning adoration & rose petal strewn parade routes.

They must have some fabulous crack in the Whitehouse & i don't mean the masonry either,

lol.

hard for me to think of the US as a nation run by adults,
just psychotic, hormone, adrenaline driven pretenders to adulthood.

reality is funnier than fiction.

tragic, black-comedy funny that is.

the humor of the already dead.

breath-taking scope of needless tragedy.

TheCenturion
09-19-2007, 12:23 AM
Cheney was probably one of those neodummies who imagined they would be greeted with fawning adoration & rose petal strewn parade routes.

They must have some fabulous crack in the Whitehouse & i don't mean the masonry either,

lol.

hard for me to think of the US as a nation run by adults,
just psychotic, hormone, adrenaline driven pretenders to adulthood.

reality is funnier than fiction.

tragic, black-comedy funny that is.

the humor of the already dead.

breath-taking scope of needless tragedy.

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Justice Robert Jackson - Chief Prosecutor Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal

disrupter
09-19-2007, 12:34 AM
even for a cold-blooded rational mercenary,

war destroys assets & wealth & doesn't create them.

It does create opportunities for ruthless profiteers to gain quick bloody cash,
but since they are liquid & looted they turn very quickly into stinking corruption.

You really have to work your imagination to come up with scenarios where war, other than defensive, makes any kind of rational sense what-so-ever.

Anyone with a long-term rational perspective knows there are any number of better alternatives to unnecessary war.

We have children in suits & ties running the USA.
'Lord of the Flies' comes to reality.

TheCenturion
09-19-2007, 07:58 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/his-kid.jpg

radioguy
09-19-2007, 09:09 PM
From what I see Radioguy quoted:

"CHENEY: ...challenging part of it to some extent may come in the aftermath once the military segment is over and we move to try and stand up a new government and turn over to the Iraqi people the responsibilities to their nation."

It appears what you originally quoted him as saying was refering to the taking down of Saddam's army, in the "military segment" - we are now in the "aftermath" part, of setting up a new government, with different enemies than when Cheney spoke.

What Cheney meant is very clear - unless you take quotes out of context.

You know, thats how I read that also, but didn't even bother to try and explain it.

I mean these are the same people that swear that Bush and the administration said that Saddam was tied to 9/11, when they never said any such thing. These are the same people who say that Bush lied about Saddam's WMD's, when half a dozen investigations determined it was faulty intelligence. These are the same people who think Joe Wilson was a hero who exposed the lies of the president, when it's been proven in the Senate investigation, and by Wilson's sworn testimony, that he was in fact the one who lied, not Bush. These are the same people who think the war in Iraq created terrorism and that it didn't exist before we got there. :banghead:

You just can't win, when there are so many people willing to ignore the fact and make up shit as they go along. :(

disrupter
09-20-2007, 12:54 AM
Lawyer talk.

Cheney & Bush made innumerable FALSE connections between Saddam & Al Qaeda & then in the same breath spewed 911, which IS attributed to Al Qaeda.

Looks like more neoconmen doing squid weasel moves again.

I guess we should give them credit for being very slick liars, who can claim to be technically correct [and even THAT isn't true] while systematically misleading people.

To this day 40 percent of Americans think Iraq had a 911 connection
& around 20 percent of them think the hijackers were supposedly from Iraq.

They are so smooth at playing upon people's sloppy thinking.

KISS - keep it simple stupid

If Bush & Cheney have their mouths open & sound is coming out they are lying.

EDIT:

If ANY neoconman has their mouth open & sound is coming out they are lying.

Linkster
09-20-2007, 06:59 AM
disrupter - dont worry - the majority of Americans are with you - they now support investigating Bush and Cheney for complicity in 911 to the tune of 51% of Americans - the detractors are now a minority in the US and getting smaller