Republicans Don't Give a Damn about the Deficit

[serum114]

Republicans Don't Give a Damn about the Deficit
The GOP's blocking of jobless benefits in the US Senate, while supporting huge tax cuts for the rich, shows its stance is political
by Sahil Kapur

As the US national unemployment rate remains high at 9.5%, Senate Republicans are persistently blocking the extension of expiring benefits for jobless Americans. Their primary concern is, apparently, that it'll increase the deficit.

"The only reason the unemployment extension hasn't passed is because Democrats simply refuse to pass a bill that doesn't add to the debt," claimed Mitch McConnell, the Senate's Republican leader.

But are Republicans really concerned with the deficit, or is this just a political ruse?

On Fox News Sunday, Jon Kyl, the second highest-ranking Republican in the Senate, was quizzed about his party's commitment to reducing the deficit. How, wondered the show's host, Chris Wallace, can the GOP support extending the 10-year, $678bn (£445bn) tax cuts for the richest few while they continually block unemployment benefits by invoking the nefarious consequences of a growing budget deficit?

"You do need to offset the cost of increased spending, and that's what Republicans object to," Kyl said. "But you should never have to offset cost of a deliberate decision to reduce tax rates on Americans." In short, he claimed budget shortfalls resulting from tax cuts don't need to be offset, but spending provisions do.

If you thought this was a slip-up or a lone viewpoint you'd be wrong. "That's been the majority Republican view for some time," McConnell told Talking Points Memo's Brian Beutler, trotting out the verifiably false claim that the 2001 Bush tax cuts didn't decrease tax revenues. "I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject." (As well as Democrat Ben Nelson.)

Ponder that for a minute. The official Republican stance is that taxes aren't relevant to budget problems, but spending is. In this case, $35bn for the jobless (during the worst economic crisis since the great depression) is unacceptable to them because it would bust the budget, but $678bn in breaks for the wealthiest is fine.

This is the party that has been viciously hammering President Obama and Democrats on the deficit over the last year and a half, and has invoked it to filibuster legislation after legislation on all sorts of issues (even on bills that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says will cut the deficit, such as healthcare reform).

But the contrast between opposing relatively minor spending to shield the suffering of the unemployed while backing tax cuts for the rich takes this double standard to new levels. Especially when the tax breaks are projected to massively decrease government revenues.

What this suggests is that for Republicans, the deficit isn't a real concern – it's simply a political weapon. A cynical, clever tool that serves to weaken Obama's credibility as well as obstruct the Democrats' legislative ambitions. Whatever Republicans believe in their hearts, they know it's politically beneficial to prolong the suffering of the unemployed ahead of November's midterm elections – because, perverse as it may be in this situation, it'll wind up being a referendum on Democratic governance.

Textbook economics say it's prudent to boost domestic spending while running a deficit during major recessions – it shields the fall in consumer spending, which otherwise leads to a downward spiral of reduced investment, income, and ultimately jobs. Unemployment benefits are ground zero in this cycle, because they cushion the free-fall in demand while jobs are scarce. Extending these benefits would do more to augment short-term business confidence than pinching pennies to reduce the deficit during a downturn.

Either way, Republican tactics are working like a charm. Democrats have given up on further stimulus due to the harsh political climate and the sharp rise in deficit fears among the elite class (though certainly not among the public, which deems jobs far more important). For this, they'll pay a heavy price.

And the GOP will probably get away with it because, despite the amazing lack of evidence, it's simply a truism in the US media that Republicans care about the deficit while Democrats are fiscally reckless. Those who believe this may want to compare, for instance, the budget surpluses of the Clinton years (after he increased taxes), with the exploding deficits of the Bush years (after he cut taxes).

It's fine and fair for Republicans to stand on large tax cuts for the rich as a principle. But they can't do so while claiming to care a whit about the deficit. The budget is a result of money coming in (tax revenues) and money going out (spending). They can't disregard 50% of this equation and claim to be concerned with the outcome. Or at least be taken seriously while they're at it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jul/15/republicans-dont-give-damn-about-deficit

[dsolo802]

Republicans Don't Give a Damn about the Deficit
The GOP's blocking of jobless benefits in the US Senate, while supporting huge tax cuts for the rich, shows its stance is political
by Sahil Kapur

As the US national unemployment rate remains high at 9.5%, Senate Republicans are persistently blocking the extension of expiring benefits for jobless Americans. Their primary concern is, apparently, that it'll increase the deficit.

"The only reason the unemployment extension hasn't passed is because Democrats simply refuse to pass a bill that doesn't add to the debt," claimed Mitch McConnell, the Senate's Republican leader.

But are Republicans really concerned with the deficit, or is this just a political ruse?

On Fox News Sunday, Jon Kyl, the second highest-ranking Republican in the Senate, was quizzed about his party's commitment to reducing the deficit. How, wondered the show's host, Chris Wallace, can the GOP support extending the 10-year, $678bn (£445bn) tax cuts for the richest few while they continually block unemployment benefits by invoking the nefarious consequences of a growing budget deficit?

"You do need to offset the cost of increased spending, and that's what Republicans object to," Kyl said. "But you should never have to offset cost of a deliberate decision to reduce tax rates on Americans." In short, he claimed budget shortfalls resulting from tax cuts don't need to be offset, but spending provisions do.

If you thought this was a slip-up or a lone viewpoint you'd be wrong. "That's been the majority Republican view for some time," McConnell told Talking Points Memo's Brian Beutler, trotting out the verifiably false claim that the 2001 Bush tax cuts didn't decrease tax revenues. "I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject." (As well as Democrat Ben Nelson.)

Ponder that for a minute. The official Republican stance is that taxes aren't relevant to budget problems, but spending is. In this case, $35bn for the jobless (during the worst economic crisis since the great depression) is unacceptable to them because it would bust the budget, but $678bn in breaks for the wealthiest is fine.

This is the party that has been viciously hammering President Obama and Democrats on the deficit over the last year and a half, and has invoked it to filibuster legislation after legislation on all sorts of issues (even on bills that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says will cut the deficit, such as healthcare reform).

But the contrast between opposing relatively minor spending to shield the suffering of the unemployed while backing tax cuts for the rich takes this double standard to new levels. Especially when the tax breaks are projected to massively decrease government revenues.

What this suggests is that for Republicans, the deficit isn't a real concern – it's simply a political weapon. A cynical, clever tool that serves to weaken Obama's credibility as well as obstruct the Democrats' legislative ambitions. Whatever Republicans believe in their hearts, they know it's politically beneficial to prolong the suffering of the unemployed ahead of November's midterm elections – because, perverse as it may be in this situation, it'll wind up being a referendum on Democratic governance.

Textbook economics say it's prudent to boost domestic spending while running a deficit during major recessions – it shields the fall in consumer spending, which otherwise leads to a downward spiral of reduced investment, income, and ultimately jobs. Unemployment benefits are ground zero in this cycle, because they cushion the free-fall in demand while jobs are scarce. Extending these benefits would do more to augment short-term business confidence than pinching pennies to reduce the deficit during a downturn.

Either way, Republican tactics are working like a charm. Democrats have given up on further stimulus due to the harsh political climate and the sharp rise in deficit fears among the elite class (though certainly not among the public, which deems jobs far more important). For this, they'll pay a heavy price.

And the GOP will probably get away with it because, despite the amazing lack of evidence, it's simply a truism in the US media that Republicans care about the deficit while Democrats are fiscally reckless. Those who believe this may want to compare, for instance, the budget surpluses of the Clinton years (after he increased taxes), with the exploding deficits of the Bush years (after he cut taxes).

It's fine and fair for Republicans to stand on large tax cuts for the rich as a principle. But they can't do so while claiming to care a whit about the deficit. The budget is a result of money coming in (tax revenues) and money going out (spending). They can't disregard 50% of this equation and claim to be concerned with the outcome. Or at least be taken seriously while they're at it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jul/15/republicans-dont-give-damn-about-deficitReally nice article. This kind of hypocrisy would produce howls of derisive laughter if there was anyone remaining in America that had more than a couple brain cells to rub together. Why don't we? Mindless appeals to our cowboy heritage coupled with 24/7 propaganda.

We have the best healthcare in the world. We are the shining light on the hill. We have the best this, and the best that - despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

How can a people be so egoistic and so wrong? It remains as true today as the day it was used to dumb down the German people: The bigger the lie and the more times it is repeated the more it appears to be the truth. Propaganda works.

[doctordog]

An extension only gives people an excuse to remain unemployed, had they cut these benefits off months ago the enemployment rate would be lower.

[Independent Harry]

An extension only gives people an excuse to remain unemployed, had they cut these benefits off months ago the enemployment rate would be lower.

yes because when I lost my job due to an extended illness, $1800/month was enough to support myself on and just waited out my unemployment benefits to end...

It's a stop gap to help people survive. I was off the benefits in 6 months. I went out and got another job...

[doctordog]

yes because when I lost my job due to an extended illness, $1800/month was enough to support myself on and just waited out my unemployment benefits to end...

It's a stop gap to help people survive. I was off the benefits in 6 months. I went out and got another job...

Excellent, many have been out nearly a year now, and they haven't been ill, just lazy with the deer in the headlights look. Those kids that were raised without criticism or correction can't handle the pressure of an up and down economy now.

[SortofLiberal]

Republicans Don't Give a Damn about the Deficit
The GOP's blocking of jobless benefits in the US Senate, while supporting huge tax cuts for the rich, shows its stance is political
by Sahil Kapur

As the US national unemployment rate remains high at 9.5%, Senate Republicans are persistently blocking the extension of expiring benefits for jobless Americans. Their primary concern is, apparently, that it'll increase the deficit.

"The only reason the unemployment extension hasn't passed is because Democrats simply refuse to pass a bill that doesn't add to the debt," claimed Mitch McConnell, the Senate's Republican leader.

But are Republicans really concerned with the deficit, or is this just a political ruse?

On Fox News Sunday, Jon Kyl, the second highest-ranking Republican in the Senate, was quizzed about his party's commitment to reducing the deficit. How, wondered the show's host, Chris Wallace, can the GOP support extending the 10-year, $678bn (£445bn) tax cuts for the richest few while they continually block unemployment benefits by invoking the nefarious consequences of a growing budget deficit?

"You do need to offset the cost of increased spending, and that's what Republicans object to," Kyl said. "But you should never have to offset cost of a deliberate decision to reduce tax rates on Americans." In short, he claimed budget shortfalls resulting from tax cuts don't need to be offset, but spending provisions do.

If you thought this was a slip-up or a lone viewpoint you'd be wrong. "That's been the majority Republican view for some time," McConnell told Talking Points Memo's Brian Beutler, trotting out the verifiably false claim that the 2001 Bush tax cuts didn't decrease tax revenues. "I think what Senator Kyl was expressing was the view of virtually every Republican on that subject." (As well as Democrat Ben Nelson.)

Ponder that for a minute. The official Republican stance is that taxes aren't relevant to budget problems, but spending is. In this case, $35bn for the jobless (during the worst economic crisis since the great depression) is unacceptable to them because it would bust the budget, but $678bn in breaks for the wealthiest is fine.

This is the party that has been viciously hammering President Obama and Democrats on the deficit over the last year and a half, and has invoked it to filibuster legislation after legislation on all sorts of issues (even on bills that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says will cut the deficit, such as healthcare reform).

But the contrast between opposing relatively minor spending to shield the suffering of the unemployed while backing tax cuts for the rich takes this double standard to new levels. Especially when the tax breaks are projected to massively decrease government revenues.

What this suggests is that for Republicans, the deficit isn't a real concern – it's simply a political weapon. A cynical, clever tool that serves to weaken Obama's credibility as well as obstruct the Democrats' legislative ambitions. Whatever Republicans believe in their hearts, they know it's politically beneficial to prolong the suffering of the unemployed ahead of November's midterm elections – because, perverse as it may be in this situation, it'll wind up being a referendum on Democratic governance.

Textbook economics say it's prudent to boost domestic spending while running a deficit during major recessions – it shields the fall in consumer spending, which otherwise leads to a downward spiral of reduced investment, income, and ultimately jobs. Unemployment benefits are ground zero in this cycle, because they cushion the free-fall in demand while jobs are scarce. Extending these benefits would do more to augment short-term business confidence than pinching pennies to reduce the deficit during a downturn.

Either way, Republican tactics are working like a charm. Democrats have given up on further stimulus due to the harsh political climate and the sharp rise in deficit fears among the elite class (though certainly not among the public, which deems jobs far more important). For this, they'll pay a heavy price.

And the GOP will probably get away with it because, despite the amazing lack of evidence, it's simply a truism in the US media that Republicans care about the deficit while Democrats are fiscally reckless. Those who believe this may want to compare, for instance, the budget surpluses of the Clinton years (after he increased taxes), with the exploding deficits of the Bush years (after he cut taxes).

It's fine and fair for Republicans to stand on large tax cuts for the rich as a principle. But they can't do so while claiming to care a whit about the deficit. The budget is a result of money coming in (tax revenues) and money going out (spending). They can't disregard 50% of this equation and claim to be concerned with the outcome. Or at least be taken seriously while they're at it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jul/15/republicans-dont-give-damn-about-deficit


Serum,

You may note that while the Republicans are so "serious" about cutting the deficit that they want to withhold unemployment benefits, they blocked any attempt by Dems to stop government subsidies to health insurance companies who were making record profits. They do not support stopping government subsidies to companies like Exxon who in recent years made the largest profits of any company of any kind in the history of the world. They are having a fit that the tax cuts Bush gave his rich friends will sunset at the end of this year, but you know that the pitance that is spent on helping American families is vital to our country not going under due to deficit spending. If anyone wants to speak to the issue of hypocracy, now is the time and it should only be done concerning the Republicans who lie to try to make the American people believe that things not getting done is because of the Dems instead of manning up to what they are doing with filibusters because their masters demand loyalty from those they own . . . the oil companies, the health insurance companies, the rich in general. Let the voters know the TRUTH and you will never see another Republican elected. Unfortunately, the media has no interest in the truth . . . just in stirring up shit and advancing lies.

[SortofLiberal]

Rebublicans have no interest in the deficit or anything else that impacts the lives of the American people. They have one agenda and that is to block anything that might help the American people because if anything happens to improve the lives of the American people, the less chance they have of getting back in power.

It was noted on MSNBC yesterday that those of the banking industry's reaction to the financial reform bill passing was that they did not expect to start lending money until 2012 or possibly after that, but we are not to see this as Republicans and big business working together to bring down this administration because they want to do what is best for the American people instead of what is best for big business like the Republicans ALWAYS do.

[doctordog]

Big business is the people, the people that count, the same people that keep this country running. When you are against big business, it is you that is in fact against the people.

[SortofLiberal]

Big business is the people, the people that count, the same people that keep this country running. When you are against big business, it is you that is in fact against the people.

The people did not outsource real American's jobs. The people do not have investment capital stashed in offshore accounts waiting for THEIR party to get back in power. The people do not lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. . . that is done by Republicans and Big Business.

Big business is as much the people today as they were back when Teddy Roosevelt had to intervene. Big business is as much the people today as they were back when our great grandparents had to rise up and demand better working conditions and unionize.

There has always been a difference between big business and actual working Americans, but never have we seen a greater divide than we have today. When overall payroll at a company is skewed to the point that more money goes to the few at the top than to the combined salaries of all that actually do the work, there is something seriously wrong. When those at the top are rewarded with bonuses even when they fail and their businesses have to bailed out by the tax payers, then there is something seriously wrong.

Capitalism only works when people are rewarded for accomplishment, not when they find the easiest and fastest way to rip people off. Under Republican leadership, big business has become a haven for the crooks of the world. Big business in this country gives the Mafia a good name. So, no, big business is not the American people.

Big business does not keep the country running when they play stupid games like announcing that banks will not start lending again until 2012 or possibly later. Big business should not be about politics, but about capitalism and doing what is best for them when that will lead to what is best for the country, but that is not the way things are run today. Big business will do what is best for the Republican party because they are the ones that will let them get away with all their crooked scams.

[lesminora]

An extension only gives people an excuse to remain unemployed, had they cut these benefits off months ago the enemployment rate would be lower.
So you feel the economy is really not bad like we are hearing,and there are plenty of jobs out there? Dems are doing a reverse of what republicans did?Instead of insisting we were not in a recession,when in fact we were,dems are saying we are,but we really are not?

[SortofLiberal]

An extension only gives people an excuse to remain unemployed, had they cut these benefits off months ago the enemployment rate would be lower.

Wayers,

Just because people are no longer collecting unemployment does not mean they are back to work. The bill that is being discussed now is about people that have been out of work since Bush was President. Republicans did let people just roll off the unemployment rolls, so they would not show up in the unemployment numbers. Truth be known, our unemployment numbers if everyone out of a job was counted has been way over the 9.5% that we are currently showing, but the Bush administration thrived on manipulating numbers to keep the American people in the dark on just how incompetent they were and how bad things were going. See, people might buy this Republican tripe about people just too lazy to go out and work if so many that are still out of work were not people that have not seen an unemployment check in years. I have an ex husband that lost his job four years ago. He applies for any job he can only to be told that they will not hire him for anything he is overqualified for because they know that just as soon as anything better comes along, he will be gone and they will be training someone else. So, this stale notion that the American people just won't take jobs that are lower paying is just another conservative myth.

So, let me get this straight. You don't care if Americans are out of work, just as long as the unemployment NUMBER stays low. How stupid is that. Whether they show up in the unemployment number or not, Americans out of work is a BAD thing. Actually, it is worse when they aren't figured into that number because it means the country that they paid their unemployment insurance premiums to has failed them just like the Bush administration did.

[kres24GT]

The people did not outsource real American's jobs. The people do not have investment capital stashed in offshore accounts waiting for THEIR party to get back in power. The people do not lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. . . that is done by Republicans and Big Business.

Big business is as much the people today as they were back when Teddy Roosevelt had to intervene. Big business is as much the people today as they were back when our great grandparents had to rise up and demand better working conditions and unionize.

There has always been a difference between big business and actual working Americans, but never have we seen a greater divide than we have today. When overall payroll at a company is skewed to the point that more money goes to the few at the top than to the combined salaries of all that actually do the work, there is something seriously wrong. When those at the top are rewarded with bonuses even when they fail and their businesses have to bailed out by the tax payers, then there is something seriously wrong.

Capitalism only works when people are rewarded for accomplishment, not when they find the easiest and fastest way to rip people off. Under Republican leadership, big business has become a haven for the crooks of the world. Big business in this country gives the Mafia a good name. So, no, big business is not the American people.

Big business does not keep the country running when they play stupid games like announcing that banks will not start lending again until 2012 or possibly later. Big business should not be about politics, but about capitalism and doing what is best for them when that will lead to what is best for the country, but that is not the way things are run today. Big business will do what is best for the Republican party because they are the ones that will let them get away with all their crooked scams.


The people absolutely outsourced jobs, they wanted cheaper goods, and that is how you get them. The people favor Big Business, as they keep asking government to increase in size in power, which in turn makes Big Business more powerful.


Big business got where it is today via the people.

[SortofLiberal]

Kres,

I do not know any working class person that has ever outsourced a single job. That is something that is done by Big Business. I do not know one working class person that has benefited from outsourced jobs, but I do know Big Business pads its bottomline with this.

Given the choice of paying a little more for products and having all Americans working or paying less and jobs going overseas, the AMERICAN PEOPLE would keep their jobs at home, but Big Business is always going to do what results in the bigger bonuses for those running the company.

[kres24GT]

Kres,

I do not know any working class person that has ever outsourced a single job. That is something that is done by Big Business. I do not know one working class person that has benefited from outsourced jobs, but I do know Big Business pads its bottomline with this.

Given the choice of paying a little more for products and having all Americans working or paying less and jobs going overseas, the AMERICAN PEOPLE would keep their jobs at home, but Big Business is always going to do what results in the bigger bonuses for those running the company.


Really, I know several. My mom is one, She makes 10 bucks an hour (I take it you consider this "working class") and she buys almost everything at Wal-mart.

Americans will gladly keep THEIR job at home, but gladly send every other job they can overseas to have lower costs products. Absolutely "the people" are the ones who sent jobs overseas, they demanded it.


People are already spending more then they make, they can't afford to pay any more for goods? So what are they going to give up to keep jobs at home? Cell phones, internet, cable TV? The answer is of course, jack shit.

Americans want goods at low prices, this requires either relaxing our labor laws or outsourcing, take your pick.

[Bill Cosby]

Kres,

I do not know any working class person that has ever outsourced a single job. That is something that is done by Big Business. I do not know one working class person that has benefited from outsourced jobs, but I do know Big Business pads its bottomline with this.

Given the choice of paying a little more for products and having all Americans working or paying less and jobs going overseas, the AMERICAN PEOPLE would keep their jobs at home, but Big Business is always going to do what results in the bigger bonuses for those running the company.

That is why they invented trickle down theory.............

See when you lose your good job & become a waiter or bus boy that rich man will leave you a bigger tip since he is now rolling in the money our tax dollars have afforded him........ Maybe you can pick up an extra loaf of bread or six pack w/ all that trickle..............:banghead:

[kres24GT]

That is why they invented trickle down theory.............

See when you lose your good job & become a waiter or bus boy that rich man will leave you a bigger tip since he is now rolling in the money our tax dollars have afforded him........ Maybe you can pick up an extra loaf of bread or six pack w/ all that trickle..............:banghead:


Not sure who "they is" but I was never implying that outsourcing is a good thing, or that it "works", nor would I say the such a thing about "trickle down'. I simply stated, and will reiterate, "yes, the people want jobs outsourced and are responsible for them being outsourced."

Nice try at a deflection though.

[Moby]

Big business is the people, the people that count, the same people that keep this country running. When you are against big business, it is you that is in fact against the people.
Wow. What ever happened to the American Worker? Buying American made goods? There was a time when Americans took pride in a hard days work now you're claiming those people don't even count.

It's a sad day.

[doctordog]

Wow. What ever happened to the American Worker? Buying American made goods? There was a time when Americans took pride in a hard days work now you're claiming those people don't even count.

It's a sad day.

Are you really that dumb, Moby? I don't think you are but your next post will reply will confirm.

Who do you think works for big business? robots? Of course not. I was referring to the Middle class, of course that sailed right over your head as usual. Some of the largest businesses in this country are also the some of the largest employees. When you are against business, you are against the middle class.

[kres24GT]

Wow. What ever happened to the American Worker? Buying American made goods? There was a time when Americans took pride in a hard days work now you're claiming those people don't even count.

It's a sad day.


Those people are the vast minority, if people wanted to buy American made goods they can, they choose to buy cheaper ones made overseas.

Americans are lazy now, a nation dependent on the Nanny State, the days of a honest days work for an honest days pay are dead at the hands of Big Business and Big Government. They want the cheapest goods they can get. Those are made overseas.

[doctordog]

Wayers,

Just because people are no longer collecting unemployment does not mean they are back to work. The bill that is being discussed now is about people that have been out of work since Bush was President. Republicans did let people just roll off the unemployment rolls, so they would not show up in the unemployment numbers. Truth be known, our unemployment numbers if everyone out of a job was counted has been way over the 9.5% that we are currently showing, but the Bush administration thrived on manipulating numbers to keep the American people in the dark on just how incompetent they were and how bad things were going. See, people might buy this Republican tripe about people just too lazy to go out and work if so many that are still out of work were not people that have not seen an unemployment check in years. I have an ex husband that lost his job four years ago. He applies for any job he can only to be told that they will not hire him for anything he is overqualified for because they know that just as soon as anything better comes along, he will be gone and they will be training someone else. So, this stale notion that the American people just won't take jobs that are lower paying is just another conservative myth.

So, let me get this straight. You don't care if Americans are out of work, just as long as the unemployment NUMBER stays low. How stupid is that. Whether they show up in the unemployment number or not, Americans out of work is a BAD thing. Actually, it is worse when they aren't figured into that number because it means the country that they paid their unemployment insurance premiums to has failed them just like the Bush administration did.

Any SOB that has been out of work for 4 years is a lazy motherfucker or likes being retired. I can't believe you had the courage to post that.:lmao2:

There are jobs out there if you are willing to change careers, living areas, etc. 4 years, that is fucking ridiculous.:lmao2:

[dsolo802]

Any SOB that has been out of work for 4 years is a lazy motherfucker or likes being retired. I can't believe you had the courage to post that.:lmao2:

There are jobs out there if you are willing to change careers, living areas, etc. 4 years, that is fucking ridiculous.:lmao2:Do you want fries with that response ? :banghead:

[doctordog]

Do you want fries with that response ? :banghead:

I am not hungry for bullshit fries, you can have them.:lmao2:

[SortofLiberal]

I am not hungry for bullshit fries, you can have them.:lmao2:


Wayers,

We all buy products from China and other countries, not because we support what Big Business has done with shipping American jobs overseas, but because that is where what we need has been produced.

Given the option of paying a little more for products and keeping the jobs at home or paying less and getting those products from the sweatshops that Big Business CHOOSES to have their products produced at, the American PEOPLE would buy American if the products of the same quality. But, we do not have that option. BIG BUSINESS has taken that right to choose away from us.

So, once again, we have a conservative misrepresenting a situation to try to support his claim. The American people are not BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUSINESS is not the American people. The American people are the victims of BIG BUSINESS, not the benefactor.

[kres24GT]

Wayers,

We all buy products from China and other countries, not because we support what Big Business has done with shipping American jobs overseas, but because that is where what we need has been produced.

Given the option of paying a little more for products and keeping the jobs at home or paying less and getting those products from the sweatshops that Big Business CHOOSES to have their products produced at, the American PEOPLE would buy American if the products of the same quality. But, we do not have that option. BIG BUSINESS has taken that right to choose away from us.

So, once again, we have a conservative misrepresenting a situation to try to support his claim. The American people are not BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUSINESS is not the American people. The American people are the victims of BIG BUSINESS, not the benefactor.


If you want to buy American, do so, in many cases it is still possible. Not much longer though, American consumers have overwhelmingly said they'd rather have cheaper products made overseas though.

[Bill Cosby]

Wayers,

We all buy products from China and other countries, not because we support what Big Business has done with shipping American jobs overseas, but because that is where what we need has been produced.

Given the option of paying a little more for products and keeping the jobs at home or paying less and getting those products from the sweatshops that Big Business CHOOSES to have their products produced at, the American PEOPLE would buy American if the products of the same quality. But, we do not have that option. BIG BUSINESS has taken that right to choose away from us.

So, once again, we have a conservative misrepresenting a situation to try to support his claim. The American people are not BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUSINESS is not the American people. The American people are the victims of BIG BUSINESS, not the benefactor.

Exactly............:thumbsup:

I/we hear these lines all the time, most notably "American interest", like the ME oil, war in Central Asia, banana republics etc...

IT is not in our interest, but in the interest of corporate America, we benifit little if @ all most of the time.....

[SortofLiberal]

If you want to buy American, do so, in many cases it is still possible. Not much longer though, American consumers have overwhelmingly said they'd rather have cheaper products made overseas though.


Exactly when were we part of this conversation? I don't remember anyone asking me before they shipped the jobs overseas so that big business could go back to the sweatshops that their grandfathers had had Americans working in before people stood up for their rights and demanded to be paid a fair wage for a fair day's work.

I think the Teabaggers have a point. It is time for us to take our country back, but it is from them and those they support instead of any fear of tyranny from the government. Our country has been hyjacked by the Corporate World with the Republicans as their tool and the REAL American people need to be as brave as our great grandparents were and take it back.

[dsolo802]

I am not hungry for bullshit fries, you can have them.:lmao2:In a manner of speaking, those bullshit fries are the jobs available - even in Fortune 500 companies.

I work in corporate America. There are 500 people ready to take my job, if i suddenly get the boot, or quit. Corporate America has us all by the short and curlies.

Joblessness works really well for corporate America. Those of us who are lucky enough to find work dare not push back on any labor practice no matter how draconian.

[olddude]

Holy shit!! I ain't heard this much crying since Bush beat albore.

Let me get this straight, you guys are crying because the unions and stewpid taxes ran a lot of companies out of the country and now you don't have a job. You are probably the same ones that were making 75 bucks an hour putting hub caps on those cheap azz built chevys and when the company finally couldn't make it anymore they went broke. But wait obungo came to the rescue and bailed their sorry asses out, or should I say the American people did.

Guess what your unions and the government don't have any money that didn't belong to somebody else before the took it from them.

Here's a hint for you rocket scientist out there that think money grows on trees or they can just keep on printing it like it's candy......there is no money tree and for every dollar that they print with nothing to back it up is going to cost us five. People that run these large companies are going to make money one way or another. It's not their responsibility to give you anything. They are in business for one reason and that is to make money not for the good of the people, not for the government to rob, not for the union worker. They went in business with the hopes of being able to provide for themselves and their families.

Business owners are what make this country work. Both large and small all of them have to figure out how to make a profit or they go broke and everybody loses. Most everybody out there wants something for nothing and they want it now. Sam Walton saw this and started walmart. Not because he was a nice guy, he did it because he didn't feel he had enough money and wanted some more or else he would just open the doors and let people just take what they want.

When walmart first started they used some pretty low tactics in getting what they wanted. They would open 2 or 3 stores in a small town and run all the mom and pop stores out of business then they would close up two of them, maybe in some areas they would open a sam's club but they were good at figuring out how to get their market share. They operate on a slim margin and make their money on volume. Most of the small shop owners couldn't operate like that, they just didn't have the buying power to compete with them. That may seem unfair but that's business and in the business world you have to figure out real fast how to compete and make money and giving the whole community jobs at 75 bucks and hour don't always work out.

unemployment insurance is just like any other insurance when the benefits of the policy have run out guess what you have over stayed your visit and it's time to move on.

Also, for those of you that are saying all this shit isn't the fault of the people well you are full of some prime manure. The people are the fault....You, me, that guy over there giving all us the finger, we are all the fault of everything we are getting right now. You can't blame the politicians for robbing us blind and doing all this stewpid shit that would get you and I thrown in the slammer for. They can't do anything that we don't allow them to do. That is why they work so hard to divide us so we don't gang up on them and tar and feather their asses.

This is America guys, not the USSR. This country was built with brass , balls and blood but we are giving it all away one social program at a time. this is a big powerful country but let me give you another hint, as big and as powerful as it is it is not too big to fail and right now we are teetering on the pivot point and it's not going to take much to roll it right off the cliff.

[doctordog]

Wayers,

We all buy products from China and other countries, not because we support what Big Business has done with shipping American jobs overseas, but because that is where what we need has been produced.

Given the option of paying a little more for products and keeping the jobs at home or paying less and getting those products from the sweatshops that Big Business CHOOSES to have their products produced at, the American PEOPLE would buy American if the products of the same quality. But, we do not have that option. BIG BUSINESS has taken that right to choose away from us.

So, once again, we have a conservative misrepresenting a situation to try to support his claim. The American people are not BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUSINESS is not the American people. The American people are the victims of BIG BUSINESS, not the benefactor.

Wrong buckwheat, I call on industry all week every week, there is still a lot of industry here. Goodyear tire for instance has 6 or 7 tire plants in the United states and that does not include their engineered products division, Michelin has two, FIrestone has 8 or 9. Alabama is full of car companies, the list is endless. Big business is the people and people like you support legislation to shut them down, you are indeed going against the middle class.

[Pat]

The people did not outsource real American's jobs.
Toyota and Nissan have factories in the US. Japanese jobs have been outsourced to America.
BMW and Siemens have factories in the US. German jobs have been outsourced to the US.
Kia and Hyundai have factories in the US. Korean jobs have been outsourced to the US.

Cry and whine about that.

The people do not have investment capital stashed in offshore accounts waiting for THEIR party to get back in power. The people do not lie, cheat and steal to get what they want. . . that is done by Republicans and Big Business.

Big business is as much the people today as they were back when Teddy Roosevelt had to intervene. Big business is as much the people today as they were back when our great grandparents had to rise up and demand better working conditions and unionize.

There has always been a difference between big business and actual working Americans, but never have we seen a greater divide than we have today. When overall payroll at a company is skewed to the point that more money goes to the few at the top than to the combined salaries of all that actually do the work, there is something seriously wrong. When those at the top are rewarded with bonuses even when they fail and their businesses have to bailed out by the tax payers, then there is something seriously wrong.

Capitalism only works when people are rewarded for accomplishment, not when they find the easiest and fastest way to rip people off. Under Republican leadership, big business has become a haven for the crooks of the world. Big business in this country gives the Mafia a good name. So, no, big business is not the American people.

Big business does not keep the country running when they play stupid games like announcing that banks will not start lending again until 2012 or possibly later. Big business should not be about politics, but about capitalism and doing what is best for them when that will lead to what is best for the country, but that is not the way things are run today. Big business will do what is best for the Republican party because they are the ones that will let them get away with all their crooked scams.

[Bill Cosby]

Not sure who "they is" but I was never implying that outsourcing is a good thing, or that it "works", nor would I say the such a thing about "trickle down'. I simply stated, and will reiterate, "yes, the people want jobs outsourced and are responsible for them being outsourced."

Nice try at a deflection though.


I know you are not on board w/ any of that.......... :thumbsup:

& unfortunately you are correct about the outsourcing........... I don't think they want "the other guys" job outsourced but if it saves them $2 on a cheap shirt they tend to look the other way & buy it........:banghead:

[SortofLiberal]

Holy shit!! I ain't heard this much crying since Bush beat albore.

Let me get this straight, you guys are crying because the unions and stewpid taxes ran a lot of companies out of the country and now you don't have a job. You are probably the same ones that were making 75 bucks an hour putting hub caps on those cheap azz built chevys and when the company finally couldn't make it anymore they went broke. But wait obungo came to the rescue and bailed their sorry asses out, or should I say the American people did.

Guess what your unions and the government don't have any money that didn't belong to somebody else before the took it from them.

Here's a hint for you rocket scientist out there that think money grows on trees or they can just keep on printing it like it's candy......there is no money tree and for every dollar that they print with nothing to back it up is going to cost us five. People that run these large companies are going to make money one way or another. It's not their responsibility to give you anything. They are in business for one reason and that is to make money not for the good of the people, not for the government to rob, not for the union worker. They went in business with the hopes of being able to provide for themselves and their families.

Business owners are what make this country work. Both large and small all of them have to figure out how to make a profit or they go broke and everybody loses. Most everybody out there wants something for nothing and they want it now. Sam Walton saw this and started walmart. Not because he was a nice guy, he did it because he didn't feel he had enough money and wanted some more or else he would just open the doors and let people just take what they want.

When walmart first started they used some pretty low tactics in getting what they wanted. They would open 2 or 3 stores in a small town and run all the mom and pop stores out of business then they would close up two of them, maybe in some areas they would open a sam's club but they were good at figuring out how to get their market share. They operate on a slim margin and make their money on volume. Most of the small shop owners couldn't operate like that, they just didn't have the buying power to compete with them. That may seem unfair but that's business and in the business world you have to figure out real fast how to compete and make money and giving the whole community jobs at 75 bucks and hour don't always work out.

unemployment insurance is just like any other insurance when the benefits of the policy have run out guess what you have over stayed your visit and it's time to move on.

Also, for those of you that are saying all this shit isn't the fault of the people well you are full of some prime manure. The people are the fault....You, me, that guy over there giving all us the finger, we are all the fault of everything we are getting right now. You can't blame the politicians for robbing us blind and doing all this stewpid shit that would get you and I thrown in the slammer for. They can't do anything that we don't allow them to do. That is why they work so hard to divide us so we don't gang up on them and tar and feather their asses.

This is America guys, not the USSR. This country was built with brass , balls and blood but we are giving it all away one social program at a time. this is a big powerful country but let me give you another hint, as big and as powerful as it is it is not too big to fail and right now we are teetering on the pivot point and it's not going to take much to roll it right off the cliff.



Old Dude . . . .

What a crock of shit. Funny thing . . . when unions were strong and working, so was this country. When the fat cats running the banks are in high cotton, the country is in the crapper. It is that simple and if you look over the history of this country, it has always worked out that way, but conservatives are still stupid enough to buy the bullshit from rich people that the only way for the working man to be happy is to make the rich guy even happier.

Exactly how well has humoring the rich worked out for us the past ten years? How well did it work out for us during the Reagan years? Combined under these two REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVES we have seen the national debt climb by $9 Trillion and that is saying a lot for a national debt that is sitting at $13 Trillion when you have what has been put on the national credit card by every President since 1929. Two Presidents ran up $9 Trillion while ALL the others only ran up $4 Trillion, but conservatives would have you believe theirs is the party of fiscal responsibility. Anyone that would believe such is a complete fool.

As Bill Clinton said and proved . . . when we have a strong middle class, we have a strong country. When working Americans are treated like slaves, we seem to fall into economic hard times.

Yes, the unions did go too far, but the unions were pretty much a joke by the time corporate America started sending jobs overseas and the majority of the jobs that have been outsourced were jobs from states that did not even have unions. I live in a right to work state and we are the ones that have been hit the hardest with the textile jobs being outsourced. Unions had nothing to do with that industry leaving this country, so I guess the blowhards that insist on drinking the REPUBLICAN koolaid are going to have to come up with some other party line to try to justify the conservatives LIES.

As for taxes, Americans paid the least in taxes this past year than they have since 1950. I loved it when the Teabaggers were doing their protesting on April 15th and went into stuttering fits when being interviewed and were asked what their complaint was since taxes were the lowest since 1950. That was almost as funny as when they decided to protest Obama taking away their Second Amendment Rights only to learn when being interviewed that he had done nothing to limit their right to bear arms, but had expanded them to being allowed to carry weapons in National Parks.

Unfortunately, too many Americans believe LIES over the truth more often than not and when people take to the street to protest something, the voters actually believe they must have something to bitch about or they would not be protesting.

I find that if the American people learn the truth about what is going on in this country, the Dems have nothing to worry about and will have a long and happy life in Washington. But, the trick is to get the truly stupid in this country to believe the truth over a lie.

The true irony here is that the ones spreading the lies are waving around the Bible while they do it.

[olddude]

Old Dude . . . .

What a crock of shit. Funny thing . . . when unions were strong and working, so was this country. When the fat cats running the banks are in high cotton, the country is in the crapper. It is that simple and if you look over the history of this country, it has always worked out that way, but conservatives are still stupid enough to buy the bullshit from rich people that the only way for the working man to be happy is to make the rich guy even happier.

Exactly how well has humoring the rich worked out for us the past ten years? How well did it work out for us during the Reagan years? Combined under these two REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVES we have seen the national debt climb by $9 Trillion and that is saying a lot for a national debt that is sitting at $13 Trillion when you have what has been put on the national credit card by every President since 1929. Two Presidents ran up $9 Trillion while ALL the others only ran up $4 Trillion, but conservatives would have you believe theirs is the party of fiscal responsibility. Anyone that would believe such is a complete fool.

As Bill Clinton said and proved . . . when we have a strong middle class, we have a strong country. When working Americans are treated like slaves, we seem to fall into economic hard times.

Yes, the unions did go too far, but the unions were pretty much a joke by the time corporate America started sending jobs overseas and the majority of the jobs that have been outsourced were jobs from states that did not even have unions. I live in a right to work state and we are the ones that have been hit the hardest with the textile jobs being outsourced. Unions had nothing to do with that industry leaving this country, so I guess the blowhards that insist on drinking the REPUBLICAN koolaid are going to have to come up with some other party line to try to justify the conservatives LIES.

As for taxes, Americans paid the least in taxes this past year than they have since 1950. I loved it when the Teabaggers were doing their protesting on April 15th and went into stuttering fits when being interviewed and were asked what their complaint was since taxes were the lowest since 1950. That was almost as funny as when they decided to protest Obama taking away their Second Amendment Rights only to learn when being interviewed that he had done nothing to limit their right to bear arms, but had expanded them to being allowed to carry weapons in National Parks.

Unfortunately, too many Americans believe LIES over the truth more often than not and when people take to the street to protest something, the voters actually believe they must have something to bitch about or they would not be protesting.

I find that if the American people learn the truth about what is going on in this country, the Dems have nothing to worry about and will have a long and happy life in Washington. But, the trick is to get the truly stupid in this country to believe the truth over a lie.

The true irony here is that the ones spreading the lies are waving around the Bible while they do it.

I missed your last temper tantrum sorry. But I'll try and make up for it with this. This is a real simple question and there is no need to go off the reservation on to another spin cycle. Now here goes....you ready?














How many jobs have you ever gotten from a poor guy? Or better stated, how many jobs have you ever seen that anybody else got from a poor guy? I'll be right here waiting for your answer.:)

[olddude]

Old Dude . . . .

What a crock of shit. Funny thing . . . when unions were strong and working, so was this country. When the fat cats running the banks are in high cotton, the country is in the crapper. It is that simple and if you look over the history of this country, it has always worked out that way, but conservatives are still stupid enough to buy the bullshit from rich people that the only way for the working man to be happy is to make the rich guy even happier.

Exactly how well has humoring the rich worked out for us the past ten years? How well did it work out for us during the Reagan years? Combined under these two REPUBLICAN/CONSERVATIVES we have seen the national debt climb by $9 Trillion and that is saying a lot for a national debt that is sitting at $13 Trillion when you have what has been put on the national credit card by every President since 1929. Two Presidents ran up $9 Trillion while ALL the others only ran up $4 Trillion, but conservatives would have you believe theirs is the party of fiscal responsibility. Anyone that would believe such is a complete fool.

As Bill Clinton said and proved . . . when we have a strong middle class, we have a strong country. When working Americans are treated like slaves, we seem to fall into economic hard times.

Yes, the unions did go too far, but the unions were pretty much a joke by the time corporate America started sending jobs overseas and the majority of the jobs that have been outsourced were jobs from states that did not even have unions. I live in a right to work state and we are the ones that have been hit the hardest with the textile jobs being outsourced. Unions had nothing to do with that industry leaving this country, so I guess the blowhards that insist on drinking the REPUBLICAN koolaid are going to have to come up with some other party line to try to justify the conservatives LIES.

As for taxes, Americans paid the least in taxes this past year than they have since 1950. I loved it when the Teabaggers were doing their protesting on April 15th and went into stuttering fits when being interviewed and were asked what their complaint was since taxes were the lowest since 1950. That was almost as funny as when they decided to protest Obama taking away their Second Amendment Rights only to learn when being interviewed that he had done nothing to limit their right to bear arms, but had expanded them to being allowed to carry weapons in National Parks.

Unfortunately, too many Americans believe LIES over the truth more often than not and when people take to the street to protest something, the voters actually believe they must have something to bitch about or they would not be protesting.

I find that if the American people learn the truth about what is going on in this country, the Dems have nothing to worry about and will have a long and happy life in Washington. But, the trick is to get the truly stupid in this country to believe the truth over a lie.

The true irony here is that the ones spreading the lies are waving around the Bible while they do it.

I didn't want to confuse you on the other post so I'll try and respond to the rest of the jibberish in your rant.

First off I respect bankers about as much as I do unions which is not a lot. The thing liberals need to understand is rich people are going to get richer no matter what the economy does, up or down it makes no difference. Gas goes up to 6 bucks a gallon he don't care, he's still going to ride in his big boat and car no matter how high the gas gets. The little man, now that is another story. I know people that had to quit their job because they could not afford the drive to and from. There were people that had to actually make a decision weather to drive to work or eat. Now we have all heard to sad assed stories about the poor woman that had to choose between her medications and buying food for her house full of poor kids, so I hope you can relate.

I guess what I'm saying is you have me confused with someone that gives a crap about a banker. They are just a necessary evil, like lawyers. You make it sound like we should make the bankers loan money no matter what but what gets me is why do I have to explain this to you liberals because this was the main reason for the banking system failure to begin with. That being loaning people money that could not afford to pay it back. Right now you could give a loan to every poor person in America for $30,000.00 and it would not help anything. All it would do is put us all in the hole even deeper than we are now because they could never pay it back.

If I was a banker right now I know I wouldn't loan it to a poor person.

Actually most people did pretty well under Reagan and I know as a whole we were much better off financially and security wise than we have been since. Reagan took over a really sad bag of poop when he took office and put people back to work. Another thing you liberals seem to forget is everytime demoCrits get the helm they gut the military and somebody has to fix that and that most usually has to be a repub. That was a large part of his spending as well as with Bush when he took over after slick had let it go down hill. We have to maintain a strong ready to roll military at all times and these days it is more important than ever.

The congress and the White House are mandated this in our constitution and as far as I can tell there is nothing in the constitution that says a banker has to loan money or the people have to supply food stamps, welfare, have a acorn, buy car companies or support some union. Now, I know if the liberals had their way they would do away with the constitution in a new york minute because all those words are a big problem to them. Those words give us all kinds of rights but it don't say a damn thing about the rights of the government and what it can do to or for the people. They get away with a lot of this crap because they keep us fighting to keep our minds off what they are doing.

The main reason the liberals and demoCrits have gone off the deep end is because of the internet. You can't do anything anywhere now without it being blasted all over the internet in a matter of minutes and the demoCrits especially hate that. It also has put the repubs on notice too and they are walking on hot coals along with their liberal friends. There is already trial balloons being floated right now about that very topic and you can bet it is high on obungo's things to do list.

Our taxes may be low as you state for now but once obungo and the boys finish it wont be that way. The sad part is I don't know of a single person that would mind sitting down and stroking a check to the government to get things back on the right track if they would sign a contract with the people that they would fix the tax system and put into place a flat tax type deal where everybody paid the same no matter who they were. you could chop it off somewhere around 25,000 and under you didn't have a tax burden at all and any body that made more than that they pay a flat 10% with no deduction just 10% across the board. That would never happen though because that would be too simple and the people could keep track of what is going on and that would never be proper for the politicians.

There are so many ways we could do things different that it would be fair to everyone but the politicians will never allow it. That's why the teaparty movement is so effective because they are bringing a lot of this sneaky stuff to the surface in hopes that enough people get tired of the way government does business that we finally quit fussing back and forth between ourselves and start fussing with the ones that have caused all this mess.

[CosmicRocker]

neither party in Congrerss has the desire or ability to cut deficits.
The Republicans ran it up, and got us into 2 unfunded wars.

The Dem's passed the 09 Omnibus bill,which BY ITSELF grew gov't by 7.4%

we're adding ONE TRILLION in 7 months now in new debt - that's not even figuring in the coming expansion of entitlements, already pledged.

Where are you gonna cut?
Neext year ( if the '11 White House budget was passed as proposed) military spending will be less tha SSA payments ( all SSA programs combined).

What do the Dem's want now -MORE STIMULUS??

What do the Repub's propose? no cuts in the war spending.

Spending has taken on a force of it's own, it's like a giant snowball rolling down to smother the US in debt.

[Bill Cosby]

Hey stop asking all those hard questions on a Sunday night........lol

Trillions............. That sounds like lots of money.........

Does China have that much to lend us???

[nondual]

An extension only gives people an excuse to remain unemployed, had they cut these benefits off months ago the enemployment rate would be lower.
:lmao2: :lmao2: Yeah, propaganda definitely works! :banghead:

[nondual]

the people that count
See? :lmao2: Only 5% of the population counts. Wayers knows. :lmao2:

[nondual]

Wayers,

Just because people are no longer collecting unemployment does not mean they are back to work. The bill that is being discussed now is about people that have been out of work since Bush was President. Republicans did let people just roll off the unemployment rolls, so they would not show up in the unemployment numbers. Truth be known, our unemployment numbers if everyone out of a job was counted has been way over the 9.5% that we are currently showing, but the Bush administration thrived on manipulating numbers to keep the American people in the dark on just how incompetent they were and how bad things were going. See, people might buy this Republican tripe about people just too lazy to go out and work if so many that are still out of work were not people that have not seen an unemployment check in years. I have an ex husband that lost his job four years ago. He applies for any job he can only to be told that they will not hire him for anything he is overqualified for because they know that just as soon as anything better comes along, he will be gone and they will be training someone else. So, this stale notion that the American people just won't take jobs that are lower paying is just another conservative myth.

So, let me get this straight. You don't care if Americans are out of work, just as long as the unemployment NUMBER stays low. How stupid is that. Whether they show up in the unemployment number or not, Americans out of work is a BAD thing. Actually, it is worse when they aren't figured into that number because it means the country that they paid their unemployment insurance premiums to has failed them just like the Bush administration did.
Maybe what those like Wayers want is to deport all the produce pickers and replace them with American citizens and their children for less than the minimum wage. People like him believe in slavery.

[nondual]

Big business got where it is today via the people.
That's why we need to elect into office only those who want to take Money and Religion out of politics.

[nondual]

Really, I know several. My mom is one, She makes 10 bucks an hour (I take it you consider this "working class") and she buys almost everything at Wal-mart.

Americans will gladly keep THEIR job at home, but gladly send every other job they can overseas to have lower costs products. Absolutely "the people" are the ones who sent jobs overseas, they demanded it.


People are already spending more then they make, they can't afford to pay any more for goods? So what are they going to give up to keep jobs at home? Cell phones, internet, cable TV? The answer is of course, jack shit.

Americans want goods at low prices, this requires either relaxing our labor laws or outsourcing, take your pick.
Americans have no say on who outsources and where jobs are outsourced to, that's decided by the ruling class, not Congress. This ruling class is comprised by the billionaires, not by Congress. Trading with other countries is decided by them and to their benefit.

[nondual]

Those people are the vast minority, if people wanted to buy American made goods they can, they choose to buy cheaper ones made overseas.
Who makes those cheap products available to them? Who is supposed to be in charge of writing our trading laws? Why aren't they doing what they are supposed to do?

[nondual]

Any SOB that has been out of work for 4 years is a lazy motherfucker or likes being retired. I can't believe you had the courage to post that.:lmao2:

There are jobs out there if you are willing to change careers, living areas, etc. 4 years, that is fucking ridiculous.:lmao2:
Right. They could always go pick up blueberries at 4 bucks an hour... and they are even allowed to bring their kids to field and help. Lazy fucks!

[nondual]

So, once again, we have a conservative misrepresenting a situation to try to support his claim. The American people are not BIG BUSINESS and BIG BUSINESS is not the American people. The American people are the victims of BIG BUSINESS, not the benefactor.
It's called Newspeak.

Propaganda works!

[nondual]

Holy shit!! I ain't heard this much crying since Bush beat albore.

Let me get this straight, you guys are crying because the unions and stewpid taxes ran a lot of companies out of the country and now you don't have a job. You are probably the same ones that were making 75 bucks an hour putting hub caps on those cheap azz built chevys and when the company finally couldn't make it anymore they went broke. But wait obungo came to the rescue and bailed their sorry asses out, or should I say the American people did.

Guess what your unions and the government don't have any money that didn't belong to somebody else before the took it from them.

Here's a hint for you rocket scientist out there that think money grows on trees or they can just keep on printing it like it's candy......there is no money tree and for every dollar that they print with nothing to back it up is going to cost us five. People that run these large companies are going to make money one way or another. It's not their responsibility to give you anything. They are in business for one reason and that is to make money not for the good of the people, not for the government to rob, not for the union worker. They went in business with the hopes of being able to provide for themselves and their families.

Business owners are what make this country work. Both large and small all of them have to figure out how to make a profit or they go broke and everybody loses. Most everybody out there wants something for nothing and they want it now. Sam Walton saw this and started walmart. Not because he was a nice guy, he did it because he didn't feel he had enough money and wanted some more or else he would just open the doors and let people just take what they want.

When walmart first started they used some pretty low tactics in getting what they wanted. They would open 2 or 3 stores in a small town and run all the mom and pop stores out of business then they would close up two of them, maybe in some areas they would open a sam's club but they were good at figuring out how to get their market share. They operate on a slim margin and make their money on volume. Most of the small shop owners couldn't operate like that, they just didn't have the buying power to compete with them. That may seem unfair but that's business and in the business world you have to figure out real fast how to compete and make money and giving the whole community jobs at 75 bucks and hour don't always work out.

unemployment insurance is just like any other insurance when the benefits of the policy have run out guess what you have over stayed your visit and it's time to move on.

Also, for those of you that are saying all this shit isn't the fault of the people well you are full of some prime manure. The people are the fault....You, me, that guy over there giving all us the finger, we are all the fault of everything we are getting right now. You can't blame the politicians for robbing us blind and doing all this stewpid shit that would get you and I thrown in the slammer for. They can't do anything that we don't allow them to do. That is why they work so hard to divide us so we don't gang up on them and tar and feather their asses.

This is America guys, not the USSR. This country was built with brass , balls and blood but we are giving it all away one social program at a time. this is a big powerful country but let me give you another hint, as big and as powerful as it is it is not too big to fail and right now we are teetering on the pivot point and it's not going to take much to roll it right off the cliff.
Are you apologizing for Big Business? That's what this looks like.

[nondual]

How many jobs have you ever gotten from a poor guy? Or better stated, how many jobs have you ever seen that anybody else got from a poor guy? I'll be right here waiting for your answer.:)
Are you saying that because they throw a few bread crumbs at us, we should always let them do as they wish? Even when it is against our own best interests? Why?

[nondual]

I didn't want to confuse you on the other post so I'll try and respond to the rest of the jibberish in your rant.

First off I respect bankers about as much as I do unions which is not a lot. The thing liberals need to understand is rich people are going to get richer no matter what the economy does, up or down it makes no difference. Gas goes up to 6 bucks a gallon he don't care, he's still going to ride in his big boat and car no matter how high the gas gets. The little man, now that is another story. I know people that had to quit their job because they could not afford the drive to and from. There were people that had to actually make a decision weather to drive to work or eat. Now we have all heard to sad assed stories about the poor woman that had to choose between her medications and buying food for her house full of poor kids, so I hope you can relate.

I guess what I'm saying is you have me confused with someone that gives a crap about a banker. They are just a necessary evil, like lawyers. You make it sound like we should make the bankers loan money no matter what but what gets me is why do I have to explain this to you liberals because this was the main reason for the banking system failure to begin with. That being loaning people money that could not afford to pay it back. Right now you could give a loan to every poor person in America for $30,000.00 and it would not help anything. All it would do is put us all in the hole even deeper than we are now because they could never pay it back.

If I was a banker right now I know I wouldn't loan it to a poor person.

Actually most people did pretty well under Reagan and I know as a whole we were much better off financially and security wise than we have been since. Reagan took over a really sad bag of poop when he took office and put people back to work. Another thing you liberals seem to forget is everytime demoCrits get the helm they gut the military and somebody has to fix that and that most usually has to be a repub. That was a large part of his spending as well as with Bush when he took over after slick had let it go down hill. We have to maintain a strong ready to roll military at all times and these days it is more important than ever.

The congress and the White House are mandated this in our constitution and as far as I can tell there is nothing in the constitution that says a banker has to loan money or the people have to supply food stamps, welfare, have a acorn, buy car companies or support some union. Now, I know if the liberals had their way they would do away with the constitution in a new york minute because all those words are a big problem to them. Those words give us all kinds of rights but it don't say a damn thing about the rights of the government and what it can do to or for the people. They get away with a lot of this crap because they keep us fighting to keep our minds off what they are doing.

The main reason the liberals and demoCrits have gone off the deep end is because of the internet. You can't do anything anywhere now without it being blasted all over the internet in a matter of minutes and the demoCrits especially hate that. It also has put the repubs on notice too and they are walking on hot coals along with their liberal friends. There is already trial balloons being floated right now about that very topic and you can bet it is high on obungo's things to do list.

Our taxes may be low as you state for now but once obungo and the boys finish it wont be that way. The sad part is I don't know of a single person that would mind sitting down and stroking a check to the government to get things back on the right track if they would sign a contract with the people that they would fix the tax system and put into place a flat tax type deal where everybody paid the same no matter who they were. you could chop it off somewhere around 25,000 and under you didn't have a tax burden at all and any body that made more than that they pay a flat 10% with no deduction just 10% across the board. That would never happen though because that would be too simple and the people could keep track of what is going on and that would never be proper for the politicians.

There are so many ways we could do things different that it would be fair to everyone but the politicians will never allow it. That's why the teaparty movement is so effective because they are bringing a lot of this sneaky stuff to the surface in hopes that enough people get tired of the way government does business that we finally quit fussing back and forth between ourselves and start fussing with the ones that have caused all this mess.
:lmao2: :lmao2:

[olddude]

neither party in Congrerss has the desire or ability to cut deficits.
The Republicans ran it up, and got us into 2 unfunded wars.

The Dem's passed the 09 Omnibus bill,which BY ITSELF grew gov't by 7.4%

we're adding ONE TRILLION in 7 months now in new debt - that's not even figuring in the coming expansion of entitlements, already pledged.

Where are you gonna cut?
Neext year ( if the '11 White House budget was passed as proposed) military spending will be less tha SSA payments ( all SSA programs combined).

What do the Dem's want now -MORE STIMULUS??

What do the Repub's propose? no cuts in the war spending.

Spending has taken on a force of it's own, it's like a giant snowball rolling down to smother the US in debt.

How can you sit there and type that stuff??

I'll agree with the spending part but it's not just the repubs that are doing it. Are you going to sit there and try to convince me or anybody else that has two brain cells left in their head that George Bush asked for the 9/11 attacks to happen? Awh yeah, damn I forgot Bush and Chaney blew up those buildings so they could make Chaney's old company fatter and Bush's oil buddies happy. Geesh, what a crock.

http://perotcharts.com/2009/02/unemployment-rate-continues-to-climb-january-2009/

http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea1.pdf

Look at this chart, it's a snapshot of the unemployment over the past 10 or 12 years. It shows quite clearly who is spending us out of jobs and who is not. I'm not talking about who is president at the time, I'm talking about who has the check book. This chart gives a pretty good picture of just what I'm talking about.

The first one is a graph from 99 to 09 and the second shows a long term trend from 1970 to date. both clearly show what happened after the repubs took control of both houses in 94 and also shows quite clearly what happened when they lost them in 06.

I figured a picture would be easier for you you figure out than having to spin my words. If you want to say slick was so good and Bush was so bad that's ok. But neither of these two guys had any real bearing on what happened as far as the economy went they just happened to be sitting in the big seat when all this happened.

I'm not saying that Presidents don't have a say in all that goes on but congress plays a much bigger roll than they want you to be able to figure out. It's much easier to give a president the creditor blame than it is to figure out who is in congress at a given time.

If you look at the pdf form you will see that unemployment rose fron when slick first took office until the repubs took over in 94/ From there it went down until 9/11 then it took an up turn for a couple years and then continued to decline again until the democrats took both houses back and you can clearly see what happened after that and even got worst once the repubs lost control of everything.


surely you liberals can come up with something better than BUSH BAD, DEMOCRATS MUCH BETTER THAN BUSH. I don't trust any of them once they are there awhile.

I want to see term limits. I want to see these people that are sent to Washington to be accountable for what they do. I want to see the people that work for the people ie, government workers not in a damn UNION. I want to see the government workers that work for the people on the same retirement plan that the regular surfs get to live with. I don't want to see some government worker making 30 to 50% more in a job than the same job in the public sector would be able to make. These are just a few of my wants and not wants and they happen to be the same as your hated tea party people want.

you people are so blinded by your unions and liberal leaders that you don't have a clue what is up or down. There are those on the right like that too and until we are all able to stand on our own two feet and see just what these politicians are doing to this country it will continue to decline into the tail spin we are on. Can't you see what is happening?

[olddude]

Are you apologizing for Big Business? That's what this looks like.

No I have a hard time apologizing for my self sometimes I damn sure won't apologize for them. What do you want? I don't always agree with what big business does but big business is a necessary evil.....you want jobs then, we need them. Without big business there would be no small business and if it wasn't for small business there would be no mom and pop shops in this country, Each feed off the other. The problem is that the smaller the shop that less you have to say in the big ol fish tank of life. Big business can afford to have people go to Washington and talk for them, they can buy their competition and yes they can put small people out of business. The small guy has to get back up and start all over from the bottom. Today as it seems if big business when it gets into trouble the government jumps in and helps you out on the tax payer dime. I don't like that at all, it's unfair and should never be done and is the same feelings that most conservatives and the tea party people have.

So what is your beef? Why do you call the repubs and tea party people names and make up ridiculous stories about them? Just what is it that you want?

[olddude]

Who makes those cheap products available to them? Who is supposed to be in charge of writing our trading laws? Why aren't they doing what they are supposed to do?

Walmart

And we are just getting what they want when they go to a store........something cheap and easy to buy and take home with them. they are the ones that write these laws. Or are you saying the people don't have a say in these things anymore?

[nondual]

No I have a hard time apologizing for my self sometimes I damn sure won't apologize for them. What do you want? I don't always agree with what big business does but big business is a necessary evil.....you want jobs then, we need them. Without big business there would be no small business and if it wasn't for small business there would be no mom and pop shops in this country, Each feed off the other. The problem is that the smaller the shop that less you have to say in the big ol fish tank of life. Big business can afford to have people go to Washington and talk for them, they can buy their competition and yes they can put small people out of business. The small guy has to get back up and start all over from the bottom. Today as it seems if big business when it gets into trouble the government jumps in and helps you out on the tax payer dime. I don't like that at all, it's unfair and should never be done and is the same feelings that most conservatives and the tea party people have.

So what is your beef? Why do you call the repubs and tea party people names and make up ridiculous stories about them? Just what is it that you want?
I want to take Big Business (lobbyists) money out of politics and to better regulate them.

[olddude]

I want to take Big Business (lobbyists) money out of politics and to better regulate them.

That's cool I'll go along with that but when we do that let's just throw out all the lobbyist in washington not just the ones the left don't like, and then we have a deal.:thumbsup:

[MarkMiller]

Republicans always call for term limits when Democrats keep getting elected. It's actualy kinda sad.

[olddude]

Republicans always call for term limits when Democrats keep getting elected. It's actualy kinda sad.

May be true, may not be. From where I'm sitting there are a few repubs that need to be put out to pasture as well. You feel me buddy?

[nondual]

That's cool I'll go along with that but when we do that let's just throw out all the lobbyist in washington not just the ones the left don't like, and then we have a deal.:thumbsup:
Obama is doing the best he can against an opposition party with the agenda to make him fail even if it hurts the country. Who are the ones pushing for Citizens United's new campaign laws? Who are the ones against Wall Street reform? Who is the White House lobbying for, private health insurance companies, the pharmaceuticals, the military industrial complex, Wall Street..? WHO!?

[kres24GT]

That's why we need to elect into office only those who want to take Money and Religion out of politics.


For that exact reason I won't vote for a single Dem or Repub this fall.

[kres24GT]

I want to take Big Business (lobbyists) money out of politics and to better regulate them.


More regulation only helps Big Business. Best way too hurt Big Business is to end Big Government,t hat takes the lobbyist power away and lets small business compete.

[nondual]

For that exact reason I won't vote for a single Dem or Repub this fall.
Who cares as long as it is someone who believes in Wall Street regulation and financial reform, right? :thumbsup:

[doctordog]

:lmao2: :lmao2: Yeah, propaganda definitely works! :banghead:

Well we know laziness does not, nobody is laughing but you asshole.

[nondual]

...nobody is laughing but you asshole.
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[olddude]

Obama is doing the best he can against an opposition party with the agenda to make him fail even if it hurts the country. Who are the ones pushing for Citizens United's new campaign laws? Who are the ones against Wall Street reform? Who is the White House lobbying for, private health insurance companies, the pharmaceuticals, the military industrial complex, Wall Street..? WHO!?

WTF are you talking about, HELLO!!! The repubs can't do anything to stop any of this horse shit obungo is trying to ram through. Did we have an election or something I don't know about. This bullshit they have going is all on them, the repubs got thrown out of office, remember? How in the hell can they do anything to obstruct anything?:lmao2:

[olddude]

Who cares as long as it is someone who believes in Wall Street regulation and financial reform, right? :thumbsup:

Yeah but are you willing to throw, barney frank, chuck shumer and the boys under the bus first? If not you may as well just take up basket weaving rather than playing on the computer because your creditability problems on the forums really take a hit if you are not willing to start with the biggest problems first.

[nondual]

WTF are you talking about, HELLO!!! The repubs can't do anything to stop any of this horse shit obungo is trying to ram through. Did we have an election or something I don't know about. This bullshit they have going is all on them, the repubs got thrown out of office, remember? How in the hell can they do anything to obstruct anything?:lmao2:
He doesn't know what a filibuster is... :(

[nondual]

Yeah but are you willing to throw, barney frank, chuck shumer and the boys under the bus first? If not you may as well just take up basket weaving rather than playing on the computer because your creditability problems on the forums really take a hit if you are not willing to start with the biggest problems first.
That was the first thing we complained about. Obama promised new blood and he failed to deliver.

[olddude]

[QUOTE=nondual]He doesn't know what a filibuster is... :([/QUOTE

Did that work with the health care scam.............?

[olddude]

That was the first thing we complained about. Obama promised new blood and he failed to deliver.

But if obungo had got rid of that crew how could he have got the liberals wet dream of free health care rammed through? HUH?

So you are saying once they get all their socialist programs run through you would be ok to giving the ax to all those socialist bastards that voted for all this spending?

[nondual]

Did that work with the health care scam.............?
No, Republicans failed to block that one. That's why we need to a simple majority rule, it is the only way we can move America forward.

[doctordog]

[QUOTE=olddude]
No, Republicans failed to block that one. That's why we need to a simple majority rule, it is the only way we move America forward.

You mean 50 years backwards like the divisive years of the 60's

[olddude]

[QUOTE=olddude]
No, Republicans failed to block that one. That's why we need to a simple majority rule, it is the only way we move America forward.

Simple majority rule huh.....they had a super majority and they still had to pull all sorts of shady deals and tricks to get it through so why is it the repubs fault.

Besides if if they really wanted this as bad as the say they do they would just pull the same thing they did with health crap. This way they get to double dip they will get it rammed through no matter what and they can badmouth the repubs too, it's an election coming up you know.

All the repubs want is for them to find the money somewhere other than going back to the money tree under the White House. They believe they should make some cut somewhere to fund this with and I wholeheartedly agree. It's time for these sorry POS demoCrits to stop the crap and do what they were sent there to do.

[SortofLiberal]

Are you saying that because they throw a few bread crumbs at us, we should always let them do as they wish? Even when it is against our own best interests? Why?


Old Dude had asked how many jobs have been created by poor people. Lately more than by the rich because the rich are stashing their money (most of which they got from the government in bailouts and subsidies) in offshore accounts or investing it in creating jobs in other countries.

Americans have gotten very innovative in the ways they are making money. They have had to because no matter how much the government took from hard working Americans just to give it to the rich, the rich still have not done anything to create jobs.

Like I have said before, it is time to tax the hell out of the greedy bastards and then use that money to lend to small businesses who will create jobs.

When you try something for a decade only to see failed results, a sane person would realize the error of their ways and try something else, but God bless those conservatives, they just keep on beating their heads against that brick wall and blaming the wall for not moving. Unfortunately, they do everything in their power to prevent those of us that are smart enough to just go around that wall from doing so with filibusters and spreading ignorant lies on FOX.

[olddude]

Old Dude had asked how many jobs have been created by poor people. Lately more than by the rich because the rich are stashing their money (most of which they got from the government in bailouts and subsidies) in offshore accounts or investing it in creating jobs in other countries.

Americans have gotten very innovative in the ways they are making money. They have had to because no matter how much the government took from hard working Americans just to give it to the rich, the rich still have not done anything to create jobs.

Like I have said before, it is time to tax the hell out of the greedy bastards and then use that money to lend to small businesses who will create jobs.

When you try something for a decade only to see failed results, a sane person would realize the error of their ways and try something else, but God bless those conservatives, they just keep on beating their heads against that brick wall and blaming the wall for not moving. Unfortunately, they do everything in their power to prevent those of us that are smart enough to just go around that wall from doing so with filibusters and spreading ignorant lies on FOX.

There is billions of unspent money in the stimulus funds that they have not spent, why don't obungo give that to the small business people......oh, that's right they are saving that the buy the election coming up.

[nondual]

...oh, that's right they are saving that the buy the election coming up.
Says who? :pokefun: :oldman:

[olddude]

Says who? :pokefun: :oldman:

says anybody with a brain and can see.