Bill Maher makes a great "New Rule"

[radioguy]

From Bill Maher's show last night on HBO:

New Rule: Crazy people who still think the government brought down the Twin Towers in a controlled explosion have to stop pretending that I'm the one that's being naïve. How big a lunatic do you have to be to watch two giant airliners packed with jet fuel slam into buildings on live TV igniting a massive inferno that burned for two hours and then think, "Well, if you believe that was the cause?" Stop asking me to raise this ridiculous topic on this show and start asking your doctor if Paxil is right for you.

:thumbsup:

[Bill]

I'll drink to that.

[Linkster]

That was actually quite a good show - I was impressed with the Republican Senator Hagel he had on - theres a man that if the republicans ran would easily win the presidency - and has some plain common sense - and being a vietnam vet shows a real support of the troops instead of this politically motivated crap spewed out of most politicians and MSM nuts - of course if he ran he'd get swift-boated for his 2 purple hearts

The dem rep they had on from Chicago was just plain stupid - she just kept blabbering talking points - fortunately Maher was able to shut her up

[mwillman]

Have you guys heard of the Warren Commision.
The media bought that one as well. Thats right JFK was killed by a lone gunman based on the Government analysis.

[disrupter]

I personally have no real idea whether the jets themselves brought down the twin towers,

WTC 7 though looks very suspiciously like a controlled demolition.

What i DO know & you would know too if you bothered to look
is there is NO jumbo jet on the available pentagon video.

Also it is virtually impossible for a trained, experienced pilot to skim a jumbo jet at 6 to 9 feet off the ground because of air turbulence, let alone complete novices. Also flying over landscape moguls & constructions spools & leaving little more than token debris. And what was under that blue tarp that was carried out of the pentagon afterwards? That swoop into the 2nd/South tower is also a pretty remarkable move.

To believe that novice pilots could fly impossible stunts & make a jumbo jet completely invisible on a brilliantly sunny day,

. . . . I would have to believe in magic.

Are you saying magic was involved on 911?

Mine may be the cynical point of view,
but YOURs depends on MAGIC!

Oops, i forgot, most of you believe in some kind of peter pan happy land & torture chambers after death,
pardon me, i forgot the audience at hand.
Now like good little boys & girls, believe whatever your government or glossy professionally produced media intend for you to.

[radioguy]

disrupter, building 7 collapsed because of the huge chunk of it that was taken out when one of the large towers fell, and the pentagon was hit by flight 77, as witnesses testified to, as well as the fact that most of the people on the plane were found at the crash site.

You really need to take Bill Maher's advice and start asking your doctor if Paxil is right for you.

[Bill]

The critical factor in this is not wether or not the 'controlled demolition' theories are true.

It's the power of political mythology and folklore.

A secretive society with covert power structures inevitably generates this kind of political folklore.

Deny it all you want - it will just grow stronger.

It's the price of secret power.

[psikeyhackr]

Damn, and I thought Bill was actually somewhat intelligent!

GIANT AIRLINERS!?!?!

I love the way people who can believe this crap can make the planes seem so HUGE compared to the measly buildings.

The planes were 200 tons.

The buildings were 500,000 tons.

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/north_tower/nt_frame3.jpg

Have you heard how many tons of steel and tons of concrete were on each floor of the tower in the last 6 years? The south tower oscillated for 4 minutes after impact. Wouldn't you need to know the distribution of steel and concrete to analyze how much energy went into shaking the building versus structural damage at the point of impact?

How did so much of the Hiroshima Memorial withstand the A-bomb blast if a measly airliner could level a 110 story skyscraper?

http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/img/irei_img/tour_38.jpg

packed with jet fuel Really, where did they put the passengers?

slam into buildings on live TV igniting a massive inferno Oh yeah, then why did firemen that got to the 78th floor radio back:

Battalion Seven: "Battalion Seven to Battalion Seven Alpha"

Unknown: "Freddie, come on over. Freddie, come on over by us"

Battalion Seven: "Ladder 15, we've got two isolated pockets of fire. We should be able to knock it down with two lines. Radio that, Radio that, 78th floor numerous 10-45 Code Ones"

Ladder 15: "What stair are you in Orio?"

Battalion Seven Alpha (Aide): "Seven Alpha to lobby command post"

Ladder Fifteen: "Fifteen to Battalion Seven"

Battalion Seven: "Go ahead Ladder 15."

Ladder 15: "Chief, what stair you in?"

Battalion Seven: "South stairway Adam, South Tower"

Ladder 15: "Floor 78?"

Battalion Seven: "Ten-four, we've got numerous civilians, we're gonna need two engines up here"
http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio9.html

psik

[TheCenturion]

Damn, and I thought Bill was actually somewhat intelligent!

GIANT AIRLINERS!?!?!

I love the way people who can believe this crap can make the planes seem so HUGE compared to the buildings.

The planes were 200 tons.

The buildings were 500,000 tons.

Have you heard how many tons of steel and tons of concrete were on each floor of the tower in the last 6 years? The south tower oscillated for 4 minutes after impact. Wouldn't you need to know the distribution of steel and concrete to analyze how much energy went into shaking the building versus structural damage at the point of impact?

How did so much of the Hiroshima Memorial withstand the A-bomb blast if a measly airliner could level a 110 story skyscraper?

http://www.pcf.city.hiroshima.jp/virtual/img/irei_img/tour_38.jpg

Really, where did they put the passengers?

Oh yeah, then why did firemen that got to the 78th floor radio back:


http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/wtcaudio/wtcaudio9.html

psik

Battalion 7: " Ladder 15. Have you seen the mayor? Over"

Ladder 15: "Yeah .. Last time we saw Rudy, he was running northbound on Hudson Street with a pair of women's panty hose and a wig dangling from his jacket. ....Over"

http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/rudy_giuliani_drag.thumbnail.jpg

[moonman]

OH gosh, another urban legend that will live at least as long as the idea that FDR allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Let's talk fact as opposed to theory. There is no dispute that Bush/Cheney Administration stood down in the face of a direct attack on the USA. Cheney ordered all flights down and standing presidential order requires an immediate response when airplanes are hijacked over US soil.

I have still not heard a satisfactory answer as to why it took an hour 15 minutes to scramble F-16's in response to an attack. I submit the answer is Cheney's order that all planes ground immediately which may have countermanded the standing order to bring down any hijacked airplane while it is flying over American soil. Rather than advocate conspiracy, I think the evidence more appropiately supports an allegation of criminal negligence at worst and general incompetence at best.

[disrupter]

radioguy & Bill must both believe in magic.

i will read their future posts keeping these beliefs in mind.

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Pentagon-Crash18may06b.jpg
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Pentagon-Crash18may06c.jpg
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006/911-Pentagon-Crash18may06d.jpg

you also notice the fireball doesn't move towards us as it explodes which would be expected if it actually came from the 'supposed' trajectory [sharp angle at us] necessary for the [missile] destruction cone inside the building.

Jet fuel inertia should have it move it towards us even as it burns.

It is completely bogus

[mwillman]

I understand where you are coming from and normally I am not one who gives credence to conspiracy theories but the number of coincidences have reached the point of absurdity and so I can only think that something went on that we have not been told.

Lets not compare this to the FDR theory but rather to the JFK assasination.
I am not saying I know what went on but I do know that we have not been told what went on and that there has been a cover up of some kind.

I want to see a complete investigation by people that are interested in the truth rather then in how it effects the nation.

[Bill]

Disrupter, I've been bashed by republicans who really mean me harm.

Your kindly comments feel like warm sunshine.

We've gone over this topic so many times, I'm not motivated to discuss it further.

If new evidence arises, I'll be happy to look at it.

As I've said before, I think you believers are the victims of psyops.

Meant to distract from the real conspiracy, in which the CIA and the government enabled Bin Laden's attack.

And that, dear believer, will be my last word on "controlled demolition" for the time being.

Enjoy your folklore - it's fascinating stuff.

[disrupter]

you can live in denial of your eyes, but that is your choice.

One can only present evidence & hope that in the majority logic & rationality will prevail.

Have you or anyone ever flown a jumbo jet at 6 to 9 feet off the ground at any speed?
even an experienced pilot?
my understanding is that air turbulence makes this virtually impossible.

I see no jet doing that impossible thing.
it should be very clearly visble coming in at an angle towards the camera, descending, in frame for an extended period.

Do you see it?

Do you see a jumbo jet ANYWHERE?

I certainly don't.

PLEASE SHOW ME THE PLANE,
EASE MY MIND THAT I AM NOT LIVING IN A WORLD FULL OF DECEIVED PEOPLE.

GOD I WOULD FEEL SO MUCH BETTER.

PLEASE, PLEASE SHOW ME THE FUCKING PLANE!

I WANT to see the plane, But i will not lie to myself.

Please tell me humanity is NOT insane.

[moonman]

Hey disrupter I know you appreciate healthy debate and trust you accept no disrespect is intended here. Here comes the but, eh; as believer yourself in the inside job theory of 9/11 and that you and your fellow believers are a distinct minority of opinion on the subject; to what do atrribute the general failure to make the case?

I understand your kneejerk reaction that we just don't get it. To some extent, you have to admit that our not getting it is at least in part attributable to your's and others inability to make the case or sell it.

Like Bill posts above, there's nothing new at the moment. IMHO your best bet is to repackage the argument and be patient for a time when the general public has an appetite to revisit 9/11. The Kennedy Assassination was virtually dead as a news story until the mid-70's when investigators convinced Congress to revisit the issues. Just a thought Bud.

[mwillman]

Moonman its simple, most people don't want to believe that people could do such things. But more then that its about who controls the information that is distributed to the masses.

You have to remember Bush senior was the head of the CIA and his brother was the head of the NSA they have more training in misinformation and misdirection then any family in american history.

Hell even the security company for the world trade centers were strongly connected to the bush family. How many direct connections between people and events does it take before coincidence becomes the least probable theory.

[Linkster]

Hell even the security company for the world trade centers were strongly connected to the bush family. How many direct connections between people and events does it take before coincidence becomes the least probable theory.

I have to correct you on this one - it wasnt a "strong connection" - Marvin Bush (Georges youngest brother) was one of the directors of the company and it was financed by a saudi company called Kuwait-American Corp - that same security comapny handled security at Dulles airport and United Airlines BTW
The KuwAm company is old friends of the Bush's - theyve been around the family since the first Gulf war - and includes a member of the royal family as a principal.

[disrupter]

Our entire 'sense' [sensation] of 'reality' is emotionally based.
Ramachandran has effectively demonstrated this with a brain damaged patient.
The patient's neural link to the emotional center to the visual cortex was severed, but an older auditory pathway remained. When he saw his parents he thought they were imposters, but when they called him on the phone he believed them to be 'genuine', 'real'.

I don't claim to be completely without bias.
I do think there are many disreputable aspects & most probably criminal aspects to Bush & many of the NeoCons.

But i had believed the proposed media narrative for several years, until i was exposed to difficult to deny evidence.

It is difficult to know who & how it was done exactly, but clearly there is striking evidence that the public narrative does not fit the facts.

Most clearly at the pentagon. Video & impossible flight paths don't match. Also the destruction cone has a single point of entry rather than being either broad or 3 points [fuselage, & two engines].
I have seen absurd graphics that show the plane's wings & engines folding up to go into a small central hole.

absurd.

engines are designed to sheer off. they have great mass & inertia too, but they made zero impact.
only logical conculsion is a single non-explosive missile that came in from the proposed jet trajectory.
I surmise perhaps a global hawk, that probably [being fly by wire (automated)] was able to skim the ground but it came in perpendicular to the pentagon face, which is why the fireball [for show] is symetric on the building & not skewing down the building that inertia should have it doing.
It was a construction zone where tarp covered, pre-planted pieces of a jet liner would not have even been given a thought.

People are probably more psychologically dependent on thinking the US and its entire government is mostly a force for good. As a gay person i know better how skewed & corrupt & unfair it already can be.
I guess most people [as my past has been] are just running impulsively through life. When your foundation is that tenuous you really do cling to ANYTHING external that you [hope to think] is good. Religion or religious belief in government, organizations & who knows what.

People do like to cast themselves at the center of some world pivotal melodrama, myself included.
This 911 narrative both re-inforces their 'virtue by default' as victims of an attack, & gives them that [self] important role in the melodramatic narrative.

Most monotheistic religions cast their flocks as persecuted/victimized by heretics &/or some satan/devil(s).

It is like building history & subsequent actions, all on top of a bubble. I am sure this is not impossible, but it is fraught with risk.
If others want to carry dead weight across the top of a bubble i am not their minder, but i will not be hauling weight around for some deeply hidden liars & deceivers. Let them bear their own cross.

makes me wonder where there might be other 'bubbles' of falsehoods through history.
But those bubbles are not my charge.
I live now, this bubble is a part of my time, & simply can not sit completely silent while people base their actions, actions of the nation i live in, on falsehoods.

To thine own self be true,
as best i am able i certainly try.

It would be pleasant to think that the world was less devicesive, but clearly there are those who are. From my perspective they are operating as lizard [unmerciful, non-empathetic] brains, although they may have some convoluted motive i do not understand.

I don't like living in a dualistic, ambiguous world, but as an adult i will simply have to manage it, i guess.

[TheCenturion]

Disrupter, I've been bashed by republicans who really mean me harm.

Your kindly comments feel like warm sunshine.

We've gone over this topic so many times, I'm not motivated to discuss it further.

If new evidence arises, I'll be happy to look at it.

As I've said before, I think you believers are the victims of psyops.

Meant to distract from the real conspiracy, in which the CIA and the government enabled Bin Laden's attack.

And that, dear believer, will be my last word on "controlled demolition" for the time being.

Enjoy your folklore - it's fascinating stuff.

I wonder why it is more difficult for some to believe that Arabs would fly Passenger Jets into our buildings and easier for them to buy into the "inside job" theory. Through our flagrantly biased enabling of Zionist Colonialism, we've certainly done more than enough over the past 5 decades to get the Arabs amply pissed off at us. It's easy to see why they'd do anything to deliver pay back for financing the racist brutality of the Zio-Nazis. Bin Laden stated it himself numerous times. The obvious reasons why Militant Arab Extremism exists aren't even really controversial.

[mwillman]

I believe arabs flew into the world trade center. I just think that it was in cahouts with people inside this nation that wanted to put us back on a war footing to keep the Military Industrial Complex feeding on the american teet.

[TheCenturion]

I believe arabs flew into the world trade center. I just think that it was in cahouts with people inside this nation that wanted to put us back on a war footing to keep the Military Industrial Complex feeding on the american teet.

Indeed.. It's a funny thing how Bin Laden videos keep popping up on the hit parade just when The Bushies can make the most of it.

[newclothes]

That was an awesome show..

Did you see the previous show with Mos Def? I'm a Mos Def fan but he's one of the people that believes in that wacky theory.

two thumbs up!

---------
http://www.PoliticalFups.com
Bill Allen admits to bribing Ben Stevens (R-AK)

[disrupter]

Arabs may have flown into the WTC,
but the pentagon shows that there was ACTIVE participation by someone with access to missiles, probably a global hawk & certainly a US base of operations.

This was far more than 'Just letting it Happen'

Someone with US resources committed the destruction at the pentagon.
Perhaps the pentagon wanted to include itself as 'victim' so that it would look virtuous by default. [which certifies their prior knowledge]

Israelis WERE caught exploding a van on manhattan & driving a truck full of explosives across the George Washington bridge on 911,
as well as the Israeli 'art' students filming, laughing, dancing & cheering as the towers collapsed.
coincidence? impossibly improbable. Which certifies that they had prior knowledge at the very least.

in any event Israelis committed anti-US terrorism on 911 & haven't even faced a single charge.

Israelis are incidentally a group of people with both US access, desperation, & technical savvy to make something like this happen, almost on their own. Note, to be clear, i said israelis, not jews.

The media spun narrative of 911 is fundamentally incorrect.

[radioguy]

I think something from post #1 on this thread, needs to be repeated.

Don't you think it's time to ask your doctor if Paxil is right for you.

[disrupter]

Obviously YOU have been taking a lot of it,

it seems to allow you live with a pack of lies.

thanks, but NO thanks. :)