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LadyMod at scam.com
09-12-2007, 07:59 AM
He makes a good point. :)

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Petraeus: The Paris Hilton of Generals
By Tom Engelhardt

The former Cockney flower-girl turned elegant-English-speaker Eliza Doolittle caught something of our moment in these lyrics from My Fair Lady: "Oh, words, words, words, I'm so sick of words .... Is that all you blighters can do?"

Of course, all she had to do was be Pygmalion to a self-involved language teacher. We've had to bear with the bloviating of almost every member of Congress, the full-blast PR apparatus of the White House, and two endless days of congressional testimony from General David Petraeus and Ambassador Ryan Crocker, not to speak of the flood of newspaper, radio, and TV stories about all of the above and the bevy of experts who are hustled out to do the horse-race assessments of how the general and ambassador performed, whether they "bought" time for the President, and the like.

And -- count on it -- that's just the beginning. The same cast of characters will be talking, squabbling, spinning, and analyzing stats of every sort for weeks to come -- with a sequel promised next spring.

Everyone knows that's the case, just as everyone has known since mid-summer that we would get to this point and, when we did, that things similar to those said (and written) in the last two days would indeed be said (and written), and that nothing the blighters would say or write would matter a whit, or change the course of events, or the tide of history, even though whole forests might be pulped in the process and it would be springtime for hyperbole and breathless overstatement in the world of news.

There has been a drumbeat of growing excitement in the press, preparing us for "pivotal reports," a "pivotal hearing," "highly anticipated appearances," and "long-awaited testimony," or, as both the Washington Post on its front page and ABC World News in a lead report put it, "the most anticipated congressional testimony by a general since the Vietnam War."

Petraeus himself has been treated in the media as a celebrity, somewhere between a conquering Caesar and the Paris Hilton of generals.

Nothing he does has been too unimportant to record, not just the size of his entourage as he arrived from Baghdad, or the suite he was assigned at the Pentagon, or even his "recon" walk through the room in the House of Representatives where he would testify Monday, but every detail. Somehow, when he refused to give interviews before his "long-awaited" appearance, lots of Petraeus-iana slipped out anyway:


[H]e also has taken short breaks for walks with his wife.... for dinner with their daughter, who lives in the area, and for lunch with his wife's parents. On his daily jogging route he maintains a brisk, steady pace over a seven-mile route, snaking from Fort Myer, across the Potomac and through Georgetown ...

Sigh...

So who, exactly, was so eagerly awaiting the jogging general's testimony? If a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll is any indication, a majority of Americans weren't among that crowd. They had already discounted whatever he would say -- I doubt the ambassador even registered -- as "exaggerated" and "a rosier view" than reality dictated before his face and that chest full of ribbons hit the TV screens. ("Just 23 percent of Democrats and 39 percent of independents expected an honest depiction of conditions in Iraq.")

This was simple good sense. What exactly could anyone outside of Washington have expected the general -- who had a hand in creating the President's "surge" strategy, is now in charge of the "surge" campaign, and for months has been delegated the official administration front man for what was, from day one, labeled a "progress report" -- to say? An instant online headline caught the mood of the Petraeus moment while his first round of testimony was still underway: "Gen. Petraeus Sees Iraq Progress." Ah, yes ...


And what in the world could anyone have eagerly anticipated from our unbudgeable President? Just what occurred. And yet, in our media, and inside Washington, the drumbeat for "an anticipated moment of truth" continued, as if something were actually at stake.

Take just one example. On Sunday, the Washington Post had a hard-breathing piece by no less than six of its best journalists, with the headline, "Among Top Officials, 'Surge' Has Sparked Dissent, Infighting."

It focused on a reported "clash" between Gen. Petraeus and his theoretical boss, Centcom Commander Adm. William J. Fallon. It seems that the two fell into a near end-of-the-world-style struggle because Fallon had begun "developing plans to redefine the U.S. mission and radically draw down troops." ("'Bad relations?' said a senior civilian official with a laugh. 'That's the understatement of the century .... If you think Armageddon was a riot, that's one way of looking at it.'")

Naturally, Petraeus, like the President, wanted to continue to surge full strength (as we now know -- not that we didn't before -- from his slow-as-molasses plan to drawdown American forces). But what did that radical Fallon have in mind that led to a "schism"? According to a source who spoke to a Post reporter, it "involved slashing U.S. combat forces in Iraq by three-quarters by 2010." Imagine a Centcom commander as a force slasher!

But hold on a moment. Combat forces make up, at best, less than half of all U.S. forces in Iraq; so if, by 2010, the good admiral wants only three-quarters of those combat troops withdrawn, then we're still left with at least 80,000 or more troops in that country three years from now.

Well, I'm with Eliza D -- and so, evidently, was the technology of the House hearing room in which the general and the ambassador appeared on Monday. After chairman of the House Armed Services Committee Ike Skelton (D-MO) and various other Congressional representatives introduced the hearings for what seemed like hours, the general was finally given the floor for his "long-awaited" testimony.

His mouth began to move but in a resounding silence. The mike had failed and (except for Code Pink protesters rising from the audience to shout and be escorted out) the room fell into just about the only Iraqi silence of these past, "eagerly anticipated" months -- and what a relief that was. While Skelton fumed, the announcer on MSNBC suggested, "The commander of U.S. forces in Iraq is apparently powerless over the sound system in the hearing room."

It was a moment that had Iraq written all over it. After all, has anything worked as planned or dreamed since March 2003?

Of course, fifteen minutes later the mike had been replaced (though the room lights then proceeded to flicker as if in distant communion with electricity-less Baghdad) -- in Iraq, you suspect, people would have just started shouting -- and the general did finally launch on his monotonal, mind-numbing, expectably boiler-plate testimony. He promised that, if all went well, American troops would be back to pre-surge levels by mid-July 2008, ten months from now, 18 months from that plan's beginning. "Progress" indeed.

The general's testimony would be dealt with in the tones of gravitas that journalists-cum-pundits and pundits-cum-pundits reserve for moments like this. Yet, given the original expectations of the Bush administration, some of the testimony Petraeus (and later Crocker) had to offer would have been little short of hilarious if the subject weren't so grim. (Good news! Four years after the invasion of Iraq, we finally have the former Baathists of al-Anbar Province, whom our President used to refer to as "dead-enders," on our side! Even better, we're arming them and all is going swimmingly!)

Buying a precious extra six-plus months for the White House, the general also suggested that it would be premature to think beyond next July, when it came to "drawdown" plans, and that we should, instead, all reconvene in mid-March 2008 for more of the same.

Sigh ...

You can, of course, already begin writing the script for that "eagerly anticipated," "long awaited," "pivotal" moment when the situation in Iraq will be predictably worse, predictably more precarious, and predictably surprising to the general and the ambassador.

As aids for his testimony, Petraeus had brought along a profusion of enormous, multicolored charts to illustrate his points. Many of them -- amazingly enough -- seemed to have more or less the same blue, red, or yellow lines, each of which crested about chart middle and then essentially nosedived toward the present moment.

The message was clear: Good news on the numbers! Everything's falling! You didn't need an expert -- you essentially didn't need to know a thing -- to find the confluence of those descending lines with the general's appearance in Washington a tad tidy.

As for me, I found it hard to believe that those charts hadn't been recycled from the Vietnam era, when Petraeus' equivalent, General William Westmoreland, used similar brightly colored, bar-coded, son-et-lumière aids to wow visiting congressional delegations with the metrics of "progress" in his war.

Now, once again, we're knee deep in the Big Metric, flooded with so many different kinds of stats that you can hardly tell one from another (though most involve dead bodies). If you remember the Vietnam era, there's a simple rule here: When the top brass hauls out the pretty charts, duck ...

In the meantime -- mind you, this is Iraq where nothing has been orderly -- everything was, we were assured, to proceed in an orderly fashion, summed up in the general's wonderfully tidy, if somewhat Orwellian-sounding formula, "from leading to partnering to overwatch."

Hmmm ... "overwatch." I wonder who first woke up in a sweat in the middle of the night with that lovely term on the brain? I wonder what it even means? I wonder where we'll be "overwatching" from?

Perhaps from that monstrous embassy that we've almost completed in Baghdad, the largest on this or any other planet, or from our vast permanent-seeming base towns like the one with the 17-mile security perimeter that the President visited in Iraq's western desert, but that no reporter accompanying him even thought to describe for us. (Oh, back in November 2006, that base, as a British reporter described it, already had the requisite Subway and pizza outlets, a football field, a Hertz rent-a-car office, a swimming pool, a movie theater showing the latest flicks, and two bus routes.)

Like Eliza, I'm for skipping the words at this point. After all, what does all the talk mean if, in September 2007, the U.S. is building yet another base in Iraq, this time near the Iranian border, as the Wall Street Journal reported on Monday. The military describes it as a "life support area" -- don't ask me what that means -- with this added definition: "[It's] not really permanent, although it will be manned 24/7 and will be used for as long as necessary."

What does all the talk mean if, as the Washington Post's indefatigable Walter Pincus noted, also on Monday, the U.S. Commerce Department is looking for a new legal adviser for Iraq with a contract running through July 31, 2008, plus two possible 12-month extensions. (There we are in 2010 again!)

This adviser is to help the poor, ignorant Iraqis as "they draft the laws and regulations that will govern Iraq's oil and gas sector." After all, as the proposal makes clear, the Commerce Department (U.S., not Iraqi) "will be providing technical assistance to Iraq to create a legal and tax environment conducive to domestic and foreign investment in Iraq's key economic sectors, starting with the mineral resources sector." And "conducive" is just such a nice word! Even nicer than "sovereignty."

What do the words mean, if the far edge of Armageddon, as defined in Washington or in military-insider politics, leaves enough American troops in Iraq to fill a couple of baseball stadiums -- or several gigantic bases -- in 2010?

At some level, the situation seems remarkably uncomplicated, if you skip the words (and the words about the words). As has always been true, the top figures of the Bush administration remain completely unmoved by, and unmovable by, words which, as is well known, are only meant to move other people; the Republicans in Congress -- after all this time, despite all the dismal polling figures -- are still on bended knee to the Bush administration, so powerless that they feel incapable of striking off on their own. (Senator John Warner, R-VA, who isn't even seeking reelection, recently begged the President to please, please, pretty please, send home a few thousand troops, any troops at all, and call it a day. And, in his testimony, General Petraeus threw the Senator a carefully gnawed bone, agreeing to do just that.)


The Congressional Democrats are too weak (and divided) to change policy -- and let's be honest, even if they did, this administration would undoubtedly pay no attention whatsoever to anything they mandated. The Republican candidates for President (minus the maverick Ron Paul, who isn't really a Republican at all) have bowed down low before presidential Iraq policy, as if before a pagan idol in the desert, in search of the "base vote."

Democratic candidates for President (Bill Richardson and Denis Kucinich excepted) are running "tough" (which means running scared and cautious) on Iraq. If, in 2008, the war actually proves good for business at the polls for Democrats, then, to their consternation, they'll find they've just inherited a disastrous war, that they're likely to be blamed for losing it, and that they're in charge of Hell, not the Oval Office or Congress. (And note that, out of kindness to all of you, I'm not even mentioning Iran ... though there was that nice, giant block of type over Iranian territory on a Petraeus-displayed map labeled "Major Threats to Iraq" that said: "Lethal Aid, Training, Funding.")

Given this line-up of forces, how could it have been anything but "words, words, words" in Washington, even while it was death, death, death in Iraq?

What those words do, however, is fill all available space, reinforcing a powerful sense that Washington's importance in the scheme of things is the one unquestionable reality on our planet. The rest of the world hardly registers, except in the mode of frustration.

Is there a single ounce of humility anywhere in Washington? Can we even imagine that, somewhere on Earth, someone doesn't think about us?

General Petraeus, always identified as having "earned a Ph.D. in international relations from Princeton University as a young officer," is said to be a man with a high regard for his own reputation. Hasn't he noticed, then, that, for one extra star and his Warholian 15 minutes of fame, he's made himself this country's fourth commander of American forces in Iraq in less than five years?

Each of those commanders had a plan. Each was confident. Each claimed "progress." And, once upon a time, each was embraced by the President as the man to give him "advice." Ambassador Crocker is similarly the fourth American civilian viceroy to head up our caliphate of Baghdad. He now has "carte blanche" there. But carte blanche to do what?

Could these men really believe that, with them, the occupation of a crucial country in the embattled oil heartlands of the planet would finally head down the IED-pocked path of success? Is the vanity of American officials as great as that? Was it really worth turning so many Iraqis into red and blue lines, into military metrics?

To grasp the Petraeus moment, you really have to re-imagine official Washington as a set of drunks behind the wheels of so many SUVs tearing down a well-populated city avenue -- and all of them are on their cell phones. They hardly notice the bodies bouncing off the fenders. For them, the world is Washington-centered; all interests that matter are American ones. Nothing else exists, not really. Think of this as a form of imperial autism and the Petraeus moment as the way in which the White House and official Washington have, for a brief time, blotted out the world.

.http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/62302/?page=1

radioguy
09-12-2007, 10:13 AM
What exactly could anyone outside of Washington have expected the general -- who had a hand in creating the President's "surge" strategy, is now in charge of the "surge" campaign, and for months has been delegated the official administration front man for what was, from day one, labeled a "progress report" -- to say?

The truth, that's what.

The same truth that those two liberal and very outspoken war critics from the Brookings institute said in their NY Times op-ed when they returned from Iraq. The same truth that democratic Congressman Brian Baird, a man who voted against the Iraq war and had been calling for troop withdrawal said, upon his return from a recent trip to Iraq. The same truth that even Katie Curic said on her live broadcasts from Baghdad a week ago.

That truth is, the situation on the ground has dramatically improved and the troop surge is working.

We all knew this was coming, based on the anti-war folks who returned and told us what they saw. This has forced the democrats, the anti-war left and the liberal media into either accepting the truth (which we know isn't possible) or doing everything in their power to try an discredit the general and his report.

So here we are.

disrupter
09-12-2007, 10:17 AM
Truth:

Surge was supposed to allow political progress.

Didn't happen.

Surge is just the last in a long line of failures in Iraq.

If it really mattered we would have a draft.

We don't.

It is all a lie.

LadyMod at scam.com
09-12-2007, 03:59 PM
That truth is, the situation on the ground has dramatically improved and the troop surge is working.

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Really? Someone better tell the troops then. They say it's barely working. Barely is not dramatically improved Cupcake. Even with a positive, upbeat attitude.
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20070910/FOREIGN/109100057/1003

Troops say surge works, barely
By Sharon Behn
September 10, 2007

BAGHDAD — Many U.S. soldiers on the ground in Baghdad caution that improved security in the capital city will last only as long as the surge. If American troops were to leave, they say, the insurgents could be back within hours.

U.S. forces broke up insurgent networks and curtailed the ability of terrorists to strike, said Sgt. Gregory Rayho, 30, of the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, Stryker Brigade Combat Team, the recipient of three Purple Hearts during his time in Iraq.

His overall assessment is upbeat: "It is my opinion that the surge is working."

But he also said continued success in the Dora neighborhood of Baghdad, where his fellow soldiers patrol, depends on the continued presence of American troops. Should they be withdrawn, the future could be deadly.

"If [the insurgents] really, really wanted it really bad, they could take it back in a day. They could occupy it within hours, but it would take weeks to regain some of the terrain we have denied them," he said.

When Gen. David H. Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, testifies on Capitol Hill today, some lawmakers and many Americans will look beyond statistics for a street-level view of the daily ordeal faced by surging U.S. troops.

Working around the clock, seven days a week, the Stryker team raids suspected insurgent hide-outs and detains suspected terrorists. To boost security, the team set up about eight miles of concrete walls to protect the predominantly Sunni Dora neighborhood, home to about 38,000 Iraqis.

Other tactics, such as incorporating Sunnis into so-called volunteer forces, which are sanctioned by the U.S. troops to police their own areas, and awarding local sheiks cash grants and loans for reconstruction projects also helped tone down attacks.

One soldier, who has taken part in the distribution of hundred-thousand-dollar contracts in the Sunni area south of Baghdad, once known as the Triangle of Death, said he was basically buying a cease-fire.

"I can't believe we are paying these people not to blow us up," he said, asking that his name not be used.

Whether the incentives are financial or security-related, American forces are making an all-out effort to pull both Sunnis and Shi'ites away from extremist, sectarian or ideological elements and create conditions on the ground for a national identity to re-emerge.

"My little world consists of my little area, and I've watched it go from absolute chaos to relative quiet. Is it fragile? Yeah, but it's working," said Sgt. 1st Class David Richardson, of the 1-89 Cavalry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division, who works a 16-square-mile area south of Baghdad.

"Your insurgents are probably still insurgents, but people placing the bombs are not so secure. Now their neighbors are watching," said Sgt. 1st Class Richardson, who has spent 28 months in Iraq.

U.S. military reports say that the overall number of attacks on coalition forces and sectarian deaths are down. Still, levels are nowhere near as low as they were before the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samara in February 2006.

And although the number of attacks are down, neighborhoods remain far from safe.

In the East Rasheed and Dora neighborhoods, daytime gunbattles, sniper attacks and roadside bombs being detonated or unearthed are common.

Death toll down

The Iraqi civilian death toll for August is at least 1,809, according to the Associated Press, just above the 1,760 who died in July. Prior to the surge, monthly tolls reported by the AP regularly exceeded 3,000.

"U.S. troops, wherever they have been, have been able to change the tactical conditions," said Lt. Col. Barry Huggins, Battalion Commander for the 2-3 Stryker Brigade Combat Team, which is finishing up a 15 month tour in Iraq.

"As for a fundamental change in the social fabric, a change in attitudes, we have not brought that about, Col Huggins said. "But we have set the conditions that will allow this to take place."

"There are local effects, tactical in nature and not strategic, and it's possible that they will evaporate over time.

"When the surge ends and we go back to base-line force levels, it will be a good test of whether fundamental change has in fact taken place. I think we are all aware we are all working against the clock to a certain extent."

Baghdad looks and feels nothing like it did three years ago, when Westerners and Iraqis could eat in restaurants, stroll through shopping districts and drink fruit smoothies at sidewalk cafes as families walked by.

Now, entire neighborhoods are walled in. Burned-out store fronts and piles of trash line the streets. Millions of Iraqis have fled, leaving behind empty houses that insurgents can take over as hide-outs or use as bases from which to attack.

In Dora last year, the streets were dangerous for Shi'ites, but there was plenty of traffic. The Christian market was thriving, stores were open.

Today, roughly 20 percent of the houses are abandoned. Sewage floods some of the roads, and the market — while making a comeback — is said to be about a third of its former size.

From the liberators of 2003, U.S. troops have become law-enforcement officers in a city that slid quickly into physical, sectarian and criminal chaos.

"My job is infantry; it is to target, kill or arrest insurgents. But the way we go about doing it is police-department policy. And I am not a cop — that is not my job," said one U.S. soldier, who asked that his comments remain anonymous.

Rounding up suspects

Men found to be attacking American forces are taken blindfolded from their houses, leaving households of women and children behind.

"Who will bring the money for living? And who is going to take care of the three kids?" asked the wife of one man who was taken away, detained on suspicion of being a sniper. Soldiers had two sworn statements to help identify the suspect.

The wife, her mother-in-law, sister-in-law, aunt-in-law, three children and a neighbor's wife with three children were all sitting outside on the grass in their small walled-in garden, waving the flies off their babies as the soldiers questioned the men in the house.

They winced as repeated volleys of gunfire echoed from somewhere nearby.

Inside the house, soldiers had three men — on whom the troops had several matching intelligence reports — flex-cuffed, standing and facing the walls in different rooms. After several hours, they were allowed to sit in chairs. Looking for information, the soldiers searched through closets and tested the men for residue from explosives.

Then they took one of the men, dressed in a long white tunic and trousers, into the kitchen, encircled him and starting firing off questions, sometimes shouting and slamming the counters.

By early morning, the three were taken to the local Iraqi army patrol base, which consists of a group of three dilapidated houses, shored up with sandbags. Other detainees already arrested in the night raid squatted against dusty concrete barriers, their eyes blindfolded and feet wedged in plastic sandals on the hard dirt ground.

Nighttime raids — based on intelligence — are followed by daytime attempts to fix the destroyed infrastructure.

According to U.S. officers, Iraqi army units working in two neighborhoods are doing well, despite being predominantly Shi'ite.

They are Shi'ite soldiers who were part of Saddam's old army — an institution respected by Sunnis — and their families are safe from reprisals because they live in Shi'ite-dominated southern Iraq.

Too early to leave

"Some [units] are squared away, and some need work," said Spc. Andres Solis, of the Stryker combat team.

"We could lend a hand for a couple more years, but the Iraqi forces need to start prepping themselves for our departure. We can only do so much."

Maj. Alfred Williams, who has been in Iraq twice for a total of 27 months, said the nation is at a crossroads. To achieve success, a military must boost control, legitimize local Sunni security forces and bring the Shi'ite militias under control, he said. Given the weakness of the current Iraqi government, the only force capable of doing that is the U.S. military and that resource is finite.

"We're here looking for the magic pill — but the only thing that works is more soldiers. But eventually, that's got to end," said Maj. Williams, clearly tired as his unit's 15 month tour comes to a close.

"That is why this piece needs working [on] now," he said, referring to the urgency of establishing trust between local security forces, their communities and ultimately the government

"They don't like us but at least they are talking to us to fill the al Qaeda in Iraq vacuum. I think this is the Battle of the Bulge, this is the last ditch try to get something like this in place, and I think we can do it."

Lt. Mohammed, a former platoon sergeant in Saddam's army, lives in one of the Iraqi army outposts around Dora. Sitting in a plain room with purple plaster circles on the ceiling, worn-out chairs, a wooden box for an ashtray and Arabic music videos on the TV in the corner, he talked about life in the neighborhood.

The Iraqi army, he said, does a foot patrol for about four square blocks every two to three days. They also perform three mounted patrols a day, one with the Americans. He said electricity in the area is still mainly from private generators, as there is no city electricity and the large neighborhood generators keep getting hit by the insurgents.

"The priority," Lt. Mohammed said, "is electricity, water and sewage, and providing jobs for the people." He said that with the constant presence of the Stryker teams, people on the street are beginning to provide information to help secure the arrest of insurgents and find bombs.

"People in the neighborhood know who are doing the bad things, they know everything, but they are scared because al Qaeda kills their families," the Iraqi officer said.

Asked if al Qaeda would return to the streets if the Americans were to leave, he just nodded.

Civilians still fearful

Om Sha'ata, a Christian grandmother with a Muslim-style head scarf barely covering her short, gray hair, said her house has no water, no electricity and sewage flooding the floor. Most of her family left for Syria, but she stayed behind to help her one son still working in Baghdad.

Om Sha'ata, literally "mother of Sha'ata," said she had lived in the same Sunni neighborhood for 26 years, but is now too scared to go out and buy groceries.

Even when her husband died in April, the burial service was held in a different neighborhood, and she has not been able to visit the grave because the route is too dangerous.

"I never thought Baghdad would become like this. I never thought the day would come that I would move out," she said, tears in her eyes, her thick hands pulling on the scarf or resting on her knees. "I don't want to leave the place where I was born."

In another Iraqi patrol post, located in a filthy, burned-out former shopping arcade, Iraqi army soldiers and U.S. counterparts sat on the third floor, in front of a fan, while studying maps of the area.

A former platoon sergeant in Saddam's army, Lt. Mohammed said the concrete barriers are helping block insurgents from coming into the neighborhood, but that there are a number of insurgents "on the inside" as well.

He said there are still areas in the neighborhood where he — as a Shi'ite — did not feel safe.

As he spoke, a rocket landed about 150 yards away. No one flinched. Explosions are so common, the soldiers barely noticed.

The missing piece, said Sgt. 1st Class Richardson, is the Iraqi government:

"There has to be a government the majority of the Shi'ites and the Sunnis can trust. If that were to happen, I think Iraq would be OK."

disrupter
09-12-2007, 05:06 PM
http://newsgirl.org/images/joe_biden.jpg

expect more of the same

radioguy
09-12-2007, 06:06 PM
Here are a few of the items in the article you posted LadyMod, that you failed to highlight.

If American troops were to leave, they say, the insurgents could be back within hours.

So, with us there the enemy is not. That's interesting.

His overall assessment is upbeat: "It is my opinion that the surge is working."... Should they (American troops) be withdrawn, the future could be deadly.

According to Sgt. Gregory Rayho, a purple heart recipient, the surge is working and if we left, civilians would die. That's interesting too.

Whether the incentives are financial or security-related, American forces are making an all-out effort to pull both Sunnis and Shi'ites away from extremist, sectarian or ideological elements and create conditions on the ground for a national identity to re-emerge.

That's a good thing.

"My little world consists of my little area, and I've watched it go from absolute chaos to relative quiet. Is it fragile? Yeah, but it's working,"

Another soldier, Sgt. David Richardson also says the surge is working. That's two in a row.

U.S. military reports say that the overall number of attacks on coalition forces and sectarian deaths are down.

Improvement. That's a good thing also.

The Iraqi civilian death toll for August is at least 1,809, according to the Associated Press, just above the 1,760 who died in July. Prior to the surge, monthly tolls reported by the AP regularly exceeded 3,000.

Civilian deaths down over 40% since the surge went into effect. That's a really good thing.

"As for a fundamental change in the social fabric, a change in attitudes, we have not brought that about, Col Huggins said. "But we have set the conditions that will allow this to take place."

Another soldier who has a positive outlook based on the results of the troop surge.



If I understand those of you on the political left correctly, we lose no matter what. You want to withdrawal American military forces from Iraq, whether we can defeat al qaida and the terrorist insurgency or not. You do not care whether Iraq is a democracy, or an al qaida run terrorist state. It is of no importance to you, what happens to the thousands, or even millions of Iraqi's that supported us, that will likely be executed by al qaida, all because they trusted us when we said we wouldn't abandon them.

May I remind those of you on the left, that America (including democrats in the senate and congress) supported the United States invading Iraq and turning that country upside down. We went into Iraq and yes, we made a mess of it. I find it a bit disturbing now, that the majority of the democrats that had endorsed this invasion in 2003, are now wanting us to ignore taking responsibility for the disarray we caused, by leaving Iraq in total chaos without restoring the peace that we took from them.

We broke it, now don't you feel that it's OUR responsibility, to fix it?

Is bringing war to a country, then leaving that country to Perish, what the democrats want America to stand for?

LadyMod at scam.com
09-12-2007, 06:22 PM
Here are a few of the items in the article you posted LadyMod, that you failed to highlight.



So, with us there the enemy is not. That's interesting.



According to Sgt. Gregory Rayho, a purple heart recipient, the surge is working and if we left, civilians would die. That's interesting too.



That's a good thing.



Another soldier, Sgt. David Richardson also says the surge is working. That's two in a row.



Improvement. That's a good thing also.



Civilian deaths down over 40% since the surge went into effect. That's a really good thing.



Another soldier who has a positive outlook based on the results of the troop surge.



If I understand those of you on the political left correctly, we lose no matter what. You want to withdrawal American military forces from Iraq, whether we can defeat al qaida and the terrorist insurgency or not. You do not care whether Iraq is a democracy, or an al qaida run terrorist state. It is of no importance to you, what happens to the thousands, or even millions of Iraqi's that supported us, that will likely be executed by al qaida, all because they trusted us when we said we wouldn't abandon them.

May I remind those of you on the left, that America (including democrats in the senate and congress) supported the United States invading Iraq and turning that country upside down. We went into Iraq and yes, we made a mess of it. I find it a bit disturbing now, that the majority of the democrats that had endorsed this invasion in 2003, are now wanting us to ignore taking responsibility for the disarray we caused, by leaving Iraq in total chaos without restoring the peace that we took from them.

We broke it, now don't you feel that it's OUR responsibility, to fix it?

Is bringing war to a country, then leaving that country to Perish, what the democrats want America to stand for?

No Darlin' I did not Fail to highlight, they were not relevant to the point I was making. That is, it's not all sunshine and rainbows and Cumbaya in Iraq just because we had a military surge.

The peace, if one wishes to really call it that, is tenative at best. Furthermore, it could just be the lull before the next storm. No one has said anthing about it being lasting or solid. Ergo, militarily, it wasn't a success.

May I point out that NO ONE on the left nor Democrats are saying abandon Iraq. NO ONE is saying pull every soldier out. What the Democrats and many Republicans by the way ARE saying is that we need to start pulling our soldiers out of the country in a responsible manner. NOT as Bush would have us do, dickin' around about it until this time next year to actually do it. We do not have the troop capacity to keep a large occupying force over there. Whether we bribe every Sunni and Shite leader there is and pay off Al Qaeda to stop attacking while the Iraqi government gets off it's collective asses and produces a workable plan to unite the country as one. That's NOT happening. They are all more worried about who gets the most oil revenues than about living in peace with each other. If you give a damn about our soldiers at all, instead of selfishly asking them to go on longer and longer deployments, you would admit this.

It's a clusterfuck. Plain and simple. Bush's clusterfuck. The rest of the country supported a military war that was based on false information, reported as truth and that was supposed to last a few months, eight at the most. Bush's house of cards started falling apart when the lies started being exposed. Surely not even you would expect the Democrats to go down with a sinking ship simply because at the beginning, it looked like the right thing to do when setting a course to sail in the first place? They were given a false map of the situation. It wouldn't have been intelligent, once they had proper navigation to stick with the previous "false" course of action.



LM

Linkster
09-12-2007, 09:03 PM
One thing your first article touched on is the rift between Petraeus and his boss at Cent Com - I would say its more like an all out battle - the Chief of Cent Com called Petraeus “an ass-kissing little chickenshit” and added, “I hate people like that” when he saw him trying to brown-nose everyone in the chain of command

disrupter
09-12-2007, 09:54 PM
At least she didn't call him the 'Britney Spears Comeback' General.

Although now that i think about it . . .

bingo!

radioguy
09-12-2007, 10:39 PM
LadyMod, you stated that "The peace, if one wishes to really call it that, is tentative at best." and what I would like to know is, how do you base that assessment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the job of General Petraeus to make those assessments?

You also stated "What the Democrats and many Republicans by the way ARE saying is that we need to start pulling our soldiers out of the country in a responsible manner". and I would like to know what you consider "a responsible manner" to be? What things do you feel should be taken into consideration before such a pull out should commence?

This next comment you made, I think demonstrates a very large problem that you and the democrats have with their perspective on this conflict. You said "Surely not even you would expect the Democrats to go down with a sinking ship simply because at the beginning, it looked like the right thing to do when setting a course to sail in the first place?"

That statement makes it clear, that you and so many others on the left side of the political spectrum, see this as the republicans war in Iraq, rather than America's war in Iraq. You view this as "Bush's" sinking ship and are more than happy to watch it sink. The problem is, that sinking ship doesn't belong to Bush, it belongs to America. That's not Bush's military fighting in Iraq, it's the United States military. This isn't a republican or democratic issue, it's an American issue and should have never been made into a political one.

When both republicans and democrats gave the president the authorization to use military force, this became America's war for better or for worse. So in answer to your question, if this becomes a "sinking ship" as you say, then yes, I do expect the democrats to go down with it. Just as I also expect the democrats to fight along side the republicans, to prevent it from sinking in the first place.

We have finally after 4 years employed a strategy that is yielding positive results, thanks to the wisdom of the senate in unanimously approving general Petraeus and his surge strategy. It's time to put the politics aside and make this about America, and not about politics.

LadyMod at scam.com
09-12-2007, 11:06 PM
LadyMod, you stated that "The peace, if one wishes to really call it that, is tentative at best." and what I would like to know is, how do you base that assessment? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the job of General Petraeus to make those assessments?

I have yet to see any Bush appointee worth the cost of the ink used to give them the "official" title or position that they are given. Didn't see it with FEMA, didn't see it in Rove, Gonzales or Libby or any other Bush ass kisser who was appointed to serve the people of this nation.

I have friends fighting in Iraq. I have lost some friends. I have friends who have lost sons in Iraq. Fortunately none of my daughters have decided to sacrifice themselves in this war. Though two of them would not be safe from a draft should that happen.

As far as basing my assessment on. It's not that difficult after 4 years of watching and reading the failure after failure, reading of the corruption amongst the military and civilian companies when it comes to rebuilding the country, seeing the infighting amongst the so called leaders that Bush continues to endorse in that country, watching the numbers rise daily on the casualty counts for both military AND civilians, seeing that daily our troops sacrifice their lives while the Iraqi government takes vacations rather than make poicy. We are being used and unappreciated. It's not exactly hard to see, unless of course you tend to have blinders on like most Neocons do.

You also stated "What the Democrats and many Republicans by the way ARE saying is that we need to start pulling our soldiers out of the country in a responsible manner". and I would like to know what you consider "a responsible manner" to be? What things do you feel should be taken into consideration before such a pull out should commence?

First and foremost, remove 30,000 troops immediately, then beginning the next month start steadily redeploying all our troops either home if their tours are up or elsewhere if they aren't. By next election day have only a training force left behind. That's what it's going to take to make real progress in Iraq.


This next comment you made, I think demonstrates a very large problem that you and the democrats have with their perspective on this conflict. You said "Surely not even you would expect the Democrats to go down with a sinking ship simply because at the beginning, it looked like the right thing to do when setting a course to sail in the first place?"

That statement makes it clear, that you and so many others on the left side of the political spectrum, see this as the republicans war in Iraq, rather than America's war in Iraq. You view this as "Bush's" sinking ship and are more than happy to watch it sink. The problem is, that sinking ship doesn't belong to Bush, it belongs to America. That's not Bush's military fighting in Iraq, it's the United States military. This isn't a republican or democratic issue, it's an American issue and should have never been made into a political one.

It's America's shame, will be forever. But it's Bush's war. I didn't support nor get to vote that we go to war with Iraq. I never supported it. And Cupcake, I'm a registered Republican, not a Democrat.


When both republicans and democrats gave the president the authorization to use military force, this became America's war for better or for worse. So in answer to your question, if this becomes a "sinking ship" as you say, then yes, I do expect the democrats to go down with it. Just as I also expect the democrats to fight along side the republicans, to prevent it from sinking in the first place.

Then let the Rich Republicans and Democrats send their kids to fight the war. How about Bush's daughters signing up for a few tours? They are old enough. They want to support it, let them sacrifice their blood for it. Only then might I reconsider my opinion of it or them.


We have finally after 4 years employed a strategy that is yielding positive results, thanks to the wisdom of the senate in unanimously approving general Petraeus and his surge strategy. It's time to put the politics aside and make this about America, and not about politics.

Bush made it politics. He always has. He's never bothered to fight in the battle, he knows nothing of war except how to avoid doing any actual service in one.

The Senate is full of idiots. Sad but true. As far as strategy goes, it's 3 years and 4 months too late to get my vote.

LM

"F**k Saddam, we're taking him out." –President Bush to three U.S. Senators in March 2002, a full year before (http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=49&gps=410_518_1276_776&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2835.htm) the Iraq invasion


"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." --Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress, Feb. 16, 2005


"Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." —President Bush, discussing the Iraq war (http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&cdn=entertainment&tm=89&gps=254_490_1276_776&f=00&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49088-2004Oct20.html) with Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson, after Robertson told him he should prepare the American people for casualties.

disrupter
09-13-2007, 08:07 AM
Petraeus lost 190,000 weapons,
completely unaccounted for,
not even recorded serial numbers
that are now showing up by the thousands in Turkey & as far away as Italy
falling into the hands of death squads, insurgents, criminals & genocidal goons.

Petraeus's trained Iraqi troops were found to be unready to fight.

He trained Security forces that quickly turned into ethnic Death squads.

Now the allies he hands wads of cash to are Sunnis responsible for ethnic cleansing.

Must be the US plan is to make Iraq as violent as possible?

The sooner we leave the less problems we ourselves are creating.
The only constructive thing we might do, which Bush & the NeoNutBag supporters refuse to do is create a regional conference, alliance & strategy.

Saudi Arabia & Iraq probably will arm their favored factions once we leave for the inevitable civil war,
but by god it shouldn't be fought with hundreds of thousands of OUR completely unaccounted for weapons
OR with our training to make murderers more efficient at their craft.

Iraq for us is a Quick Sand trap,
the longer we stay & fight it the more submerged we become.

Of course it is really just a set-up for a strike on Iran
I hope Americans depose Cheney & Bush before they start creating more anti-American chaos & havoc for the American people to deal with.

The people who support staying in Iraq are traitors to America, supporting wicked criminal Oligarchic imperialism,
& have never had a rational or decent thought in their brains.