Hero of our independence, a homosexual

[Hawkeye2j]

To those of you who oppose repealing don't ask, don't tell, how many of you realize that the savior of our American military was a homosexual?

http://www.nps.gov/vafo/historyculture/steubenmonument.htm


he bronze statue at Valley Forge National Historical Park of Frederick Augustus Henry Ferdinand, or the Baron von Steuben, calmly and imposingly overlooks the Grand Parade. Located off of Route 23, the Steuben statue seems to inspect soldiers while they drill. His daunting presence comes in part from the important role he played in the American Revolution, particularly Valley Forge, but also because in statue form the General stands 8 ˝ feet tall, and is mounted 6 feet 8 inches in the air on a granite pedestal. Despite its larger than life appearance, the statue is very realistic, simple yet elegant, and detailed without being ornate. The biographer of J. Otto Schweizer, the sculptor, described the statue as a “sturdy figure clad in the uniform of a Continental General covered with a heavy coat. The general strikes a watchful posture, his right foot resting on a slight elevation of the ground. The thumb of his left hand rests nonchalantly on the hilt while the other fingers hold the sheath. The well formed right hand reaches over the chest and grasps the left facing of his coat in a Napoleon-like gesture. The powerful head with its turned up hat reveals a grim determination albeit softened by human kindness” (Jockers, 57).

The Valley Forge Steuben monument is an exact replica of the General von Steuben statue located in Utica, New York. The only addition was a bronze plaque on the pedestal to depict Steuben drilling the army. In this plaque, Steuben stands in the center. To the left, he drills the troops; to the right Schweizer depicted a camp scene complete with soldier huts, cannon, a headquarter building, and, of course, more soldiers.

[doctordog]

the way you are defending this, is there something you would like to share with the rest of the group? It might make you feel better.

[Hawkeye2j]

the way you are defending this, is there something you would like to share with the rest of the group? It might make you feel better.
Acting like a moron again Wayers? What is one of the big news events today? The repeal of don't ask, don't tell. That is why this is appropriate.

[Scottbrown2012]

Acting like a moron again Wayers? What is one of the big news events today? The repeal of don't ask, don't tell. That is why this is appropriate.
I dont think he is acting!:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Bill Cosby]

???? Where in that article does it say he is gay??

[CommonCents]

???? Where in that article does it say he is gay??

Who cares anyway?

[Bill Cosby]

Who cares anyway?

Obviously he does since he started the thread........ :thumbsup:

[CommonCents]

Obviously he does since he started the thread........ :thumbsup:

:lmao2: :lmao2:

[Pat]

Yeah, and Hitler had homosexuals in his SS also.
Who cares?

[Hawkeye2j]

???? Where in that article does it say he is gay??
It doesn't. It happens to be common knowledge to anyone who has studied American history.

[Hawkeye2j]

Yeah, and Hitler had homosexuals in his SS also.
Who cares?
The point is that it is ridiculous to exclude homosexuals from the military.

[doctordog]

Acting like a moron again Wayers? What is one of the big news events today? The repeal of don't ask, don't tell. That is why this is appropriate.

We can tell the way you are squeezing that dog that you have something to say, as Sheila E would say "you got the look",come clean, you thank me in the morning.

[Smurf-Herder]

It doesn't. It happens to be common knowledge to anyone who has studied American history.

Studied American history how intensely?

I never heard that in school. So "common knowledge" for who?

[Hawkeye2j]

???? Where in that article does it say he is gay??
Prussian military genius Baron Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben arrives at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, in the company of a handsome 17-year-old secretary. Fearing prosecution for alleged indiscretions with young men back in Prussia, Steuben has signed on to train George Washington's ragtag Continental Army. Most historians consider his success at this task a major factor in the American victory.
http://www.aaronsgayinfo.com/timeline/ti…

Baron von Steuben: A Prussian military genius, he trained George Washington's bedraggled militia at Valley Forge, molding it into a powerful force that, to everyone's amazement, fought the mighty British to a draw at the Battle of Monmouth.
Many historians consider him to be the second-most-indispensable hero of the American Revolution after Washington. In fact, Von Steuben's ideas and techniques remained the foundation of the U.S. military for 150 years. Nonetheless, most Americans have never heard of him. You see, Baron von Steuben was gay.
Von Steuben's homosexuality was not incidental, since it explains why he fled Europe and ended up at Valley Forge. Also, it pertains immensely to the issue of homosexuals in the U.S. military now.

[Hawkeye2j]

We can tell the way you are squeezing that dog that you have something to say, as Sheila E would say "you got the look",come clean, you thank me in the morning.
Why don't you grow up and stop with the grade school insults?

[Smurf-Herder]

I see your point now; and it's a good one.

If they guy weren't gay, then history could have played out differently.

[mwillman]

Prussian military genius Baron Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben arrives at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, in the company of a handsome 17-year-old secretary. Fearing prosecution for alleged indiscretions with young men back in Prussia, Steuben has signed on to train George Washington's ragtag Continental Army. Most historians consider his success at this task a major factor in the American victory.
http://www.aaronsgayinfo.com/timeline/ti…

Baron von Steuben: A Prussian military genius, he trained George Washington's bedraggled militia at Valley Forge, molding it into a powerful force that, to everyone's amazement, fought the mighty British to a draw at the Battle of Monmouth.
Many historians consider him to be the second-most-indispensable hero of the American Revolution after Washington. In fact, Von Steuben's ideas and techniques remained the foundation of the U.S. military for 150 years. Nonetheless, most Americans have never heard of him. You see, Baron von Steuben was gay.
Von Steuben's homosexuality was not incidental, since it explains why he fled Europe and ended up at Valley Forge. Also, it pertains immensely to the issue of homosexuals in the U.S. military now.


Great Post Hawkeye, :thumbsup:

I knew of the Baron but I had not know why he had left Europe.
Thats very interesting and very on point with whats going on with DADT.

[Tom Paine]

When you say fled do you mean he was hired by Benjamin Franklin?

[Bill Cosby]

It doesn't. It happens to be common knowledge to anyone who has studied American history.

I have studied it a bit & I always keep in mind that "common knowledge" like "common sense" aint so common........lol

Your piece does not say he is nor does anyone else. It is rumor, say-say, speculation............

If he was or was not in unknown......... :dunno:

[Bill Cosby]

Prussian military genius Baron Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben arrives at Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, in the company of a handsome 17-year-old secretary. Fearing prosecution for alleged indiscretions with young men back in Prussia, Steuben has signed on to train George Washington's ragtag Continental Army. Most historians consider his success at this task a major factor in the American victory.
http://www.aaronsgayinfo.com/timeline/ti…

Baron von Steuben: A Prussian military genius, he trained George Washington's bedraggled militia at Valley Forge, molding it into a powerful force that, to everyone's amazement, fought the mighty British to a draw at the Battle of Monmouth.
Many historians consider him to be the second-most-indispensable hero of the American Revolution after Washington. In fact, Von Steuben's ideas and techniques remained the foundation of the U.S. military for 150 years. Nonetheless, most Americans have never heard of him. You see, Baron von Steuben was gay.
Von Steuben's homosexuality was not incidental, since it explains why he fled Europe and ended up at Valley Forge. Also, it pertains immensely to the issue of homosexuals in the U.S. military now.

ThnX but the link does not work to that site.........

That is someones opinion........ That hardly makes it a fact..........

What do they consider/call it when someone in authority has sex w/ a boy or girl under the age of 18 years old??

[doctordog]

Why don't you grow up and stop with the grade school insults?

when you stop being an ass, I promise.

[mwillman]

when you stop being an ass, I promise.


So what when you see male ass you get all giddy and child like?
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[doctordog]

So what when you see male ass you get all giddy and child like?
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

Not nearly as horny as you when you see I am around.:thumbsup:

[mwillman]

Its OK wayers as Hawkeye has shown we have had homosexual hero's in this nation since its birth. Just let go I'm sure once you have your broke back mountain dance you will be a much nicer person.

[doctordog]

Its OK wayers as Hawkeye has shown we have had homosexual hero's in this nation since its birth. Just let go I'm sure once you have your broke back mountain dance you will be a much nicer person.

I will just sit back an watch you two pleasure each other as you have done in the past.:thumbsup:

[Smurf-Herder]

I will just sit back an watch you two pleasure each other as you have done in the past.:thumbsup:

Gay people exist.

Get over it.

[mwillman]

I will just sit back an watch you two pleasure each other as you have done in the past.:thumbsup:

So your a voyeur, hahaha
Just like a rightie, dont actually do anything just get off on other peoples labor.

:disbelief:

[doctordog]

Gay people exist.

Get over it.

I could care less, this is more about mwillman and his stupid fucking remarks that seem to be ok day after day after day after day after day, are you getting it yet?

[doctordog]

So your a voyeur, hahaha
Just like a rightie, dont actually do anything just get off on other peoples labor.

:disbelief:

I doubt you labor, pleasing people on your knees probably comes naturally.:taunt:

[Smurf-Herder]

I could care less, this is more about mwillman and his stupid fucking remarks that seem to be ok day after day after day after day after day, are you getting it yet?

Try ignoring him.

[Dale escondido]

ThnX but the link does not work to that site.........

That is someones opinion........ That hardly makes it a fact..........

What do they consider/call it when someone in authority has sex w/ a boy or girl under the age of 18 years old??

Aristocratic priviledges:hi:

[Hawkeye2j]

I have studied it a bit & I always keep in mind that "common knowledge" like "common sense" aint so common........lol

Your piece does not say he is nor does anyone else. It is rumor, say-say, speculation............

If he was or was not in unknown......... :dunno:
Fine it is not written in stone. However it was believed during that time. It made no difference to Washington. The consensus was then and is now that he was homosexual. If it made no difference to Washington, why should it make a difference to us?

[Pat]

Fine it is not written in stone. However it was believed during that time. It made no difference to Washington. The consensus was then and is now that he was homosexual. If it made no difference to Washington, why should it make a difference to us?
Ask Mike Mullen (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_military_gays;_ylt=AgIX0TrL_nSK3ye1u96n32myFz4D ;_ylu=X3oDMTJoczB1MnJoBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTMwL3Vz X21pbGl0YXJ5X2dheXMEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMzBHNlYwN5bl90b3 Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2Z1bGxuYnNwc3Rvcg--)

[Bill Cosby]

Fine it is not written in stone. However it was believed during that time. It made no difference to Washington. The consensus was then and is now that he was homosexual. If it made no difference to Washington, why should it make a difference to us?

It will happen & the military will reflect the society, as it does in all the other western & NATO countries..

There is going to be some problems w/ it as some members in the services are not going to like it..

[Hawkeye2j]

It will happen & the military will reflect the society, as it does in all the other western & NATO countries..

There is going to be some problems w/ it as some members in the services are not going to like it..
Most people in the service are fine with it.

[Pat]

Most people in the service are fine with it.
And you know that how?

[Hawkeye2j]

And you know that how?
Days before a deployment to Iraq last year, the 26-year-old soldier's sergeant told his troops that they would get to know one another pretty well over the next few months.

"I'm in trouble," the specialist remembered thinking. He feared comrades would find out he is gay. Worse, he said, they could figure out that he has been dating another soldier in the combat arms battalion for more than five years. Their careers were on the line.

The reaction during the soldier's year-long deployment -- nobody asked about it -- offers new insight into how today's military might adapt to a repeal of the ban on openly gay service members sought by President Obama and top Pentagon officials. The specialist didn't exactly tell, but at the end of the tour, his sexual orientation had become a poorly kept secret -- and his career was undamaged.

"I don't know if I won any hearts and minds among the Iraqis," said the specialist, who returned home from Iraq recently. "But I did among my brothers in arms because I did my job well and went above and beyond. I was respected."

A younger and more liberal corps of commanders and soldiers has given rise to bubbles of tolerance in today's military, an institution that soldiers describe as still largely unwelcoming and wary of gays, according to interviews with more than a dozen enlisted troops and officers, both gay and straight.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/10/politics/washingtonpost/main6194189.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

[Bill Cosby]

Days before a deployment to Iraq last year, the 26-year-old soldier's sergeant told his troops that they would get to know one another pretty well over the next few months.

"I'm in trouble," the specialist remembered thinking. He feared comrades would find out he is gay. Worse, he said, they could figure out that he has been dating another soldier in the combat arms battalion for more than five years. Their careers were on the line.

The reaction during the soldier's year-long deployment -- nobody asked about it -- offers new insight into how today's military might adapt to a repeal of the ban on openly gay service members sought by President Obama and top Pentagon officials. The specialist didn't exactly tell, but at the end of the tour, his sexual orientation had become a poorly kept secret -- and his career was undamaged.

"I don't know if I won any hearts and minds among the Iraqis," said the specialist, who returned home from Iraq recently. "But I did among my brothers in arms because I did my job well and went above and beyond. I was respected."

A younger and more liberal corps of commanders and soldiers has given rise to bubbles of tolerance in today's military, an institution that soldiers describe as still largely unwelcoming and wary of gays, according to interviews with more than a dozen enlisted troops and officers, both gay and straight.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/10/politics/washingtonpost/main6194189.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

Most people in the service are fine with it.

Most are fine w/ it or is it largely unwelcome??

[Pat]

Days before a deployment to Iraq last year, the 26-year-old soldier's sergeant told his troops that they would get to know one another pretty well over the next few months.

"I'm in trouble," the specialist remembered thinking. He feared comrades would find out he is gay. Worse, he said, they could figure out that he has been dating another soldier in the combat arms battalion for more than five years. Their careers were on the line.

The reaction during the soldier's year-long deployment -- nobody asked about it -- offers new insight into how today's military might adapt to a repeal of the ban on openly gay service members sought by President Obama and top Pentagon officials. The specialist didn't exactly tell, but at the end of the tour, his sexual orientation had become a poorly kept secret -- and his career was undamaged.

"I don't know if I won any hearts and minds among the Iraqis," said the specialist, who returned home from Iraq recently. "But I did among my brothers in arms because I did my job well and went above and beyond. I was respected."

A younger and more liberal corps of commanders and soldiers has given rise to bubbles of tolerance in today's military, an institution that soldiers describe as still largely unwelcoming and wary of gays, according to interviews with more than a dozen enlisted troops and officers, both gay and straight.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/10/politics/washingtonpost/main6194189.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
Nice to know that you draw your conclusions from a quasi news story.

[MarkMiller]

the way you are defending this, is there something you would like to share with the rest of the group? It might make you feel better.
Did you want to say something Sir? Did you want to anounce to the world your homosexuality?

[doctordog]

Did you want to say something Sir? Did you want to anounce to the world your homosexuality?

Not me Mark, never been a fan of the mud hole, but help yourself.:thumbsup:

[MarkMiller]

Not me Mark, never been a fan of the mud hole, but help yourself.:thumbsup:
You'll just watch?:thumbsup::D

[MarkMiller]

Homosexuality is a modern term and concept. It is nothing but a label of convenience to explain away something not understood.

The term was coined by Karl Maria Kertbeny in 1869. Therefore in reality the concept was not present for this to be accurate. It's just a label and is not about the person, but about the perception.

[doctordog]

You'll just watch?:thumbsup::D

Wrong again, unless I am in San Francisco or Palm Springs and have no choice.

[MarkMiller]

Wrong again, unless I am in San Francisco or Palm Springs and have no choice.
Well.....you could use both hands to shield your eyes, your mouth and your ears. That seems appropriate.:D

[doctordog]

Well.....you could use both hands to shield your eyes, your mouth and your ears. That seems appropriate.:D

And you(they) could keep those snakes caged and mouths shut until arriving home too.

[MarkMiller]

And you(they) could keep those snakes caged and mouths shut until arriving home too.
Now what are you projecting?:hi:

[MarkMiller]

Wrong again, unless I am in San Francisco or Palm Springs and have no choice.
You have a choice. Don't go to Palm Springs and San Francisco.

You will not be missed.

[doctordog]

You have a choice. Don't go to Palm Springs and San Francisco.

You will not be missed.

Good to know, I already boycott both as a matter of fact the whole state is nothing but a shit hole.

[MarkMiller]

Good to know, I already boycott both as a matter of fact the whole state is nothing but a shit hole.
Good for you.

I am boycotting all things Arizona and Texas. Switched from Lays potato chips back to Laura Scudders! LOL! No seriously!:lmao2: :thumbsup:

[Cactus]

Good to know, I already boycott both as a matter of fact the whole state is nothing but a shit hole.

Hope you are not using Intel chips on your computer, own a Mac, i-pod or i-phone.

[doctordog]

Hope you are not using Intel chips on your computer, own a Mac, i-pod or i-phone.

1 out of three, some things can't be helped.