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View Full Version : No Draft - No War


Linkster
09-09-2007, 09:25 PM
I like this - and it reflects my opinions perfectly (by Dan Grossman):

http://feeds.huffingtonpost.com/~r/HP/Politics/~3/154358710/its-time-for-reality-no_b_63678.html

War is serious business, a machine that produces amputees, people without faces, people with half their brains destroyed, and corpses so macerated one needs metal dog tags to identify who that was now lying in pieces on the ground at your feet.

It's time to understand the reality that America should never be engaged in a war without the full understanding and cooperation of all Americans -- all socioeconomic classes, all groups.

The only way to ensure such cooperation in a war is a lottery draft that inducts combatants as needed from all classes -- including the class of legislators and government officials who promoted the war in the first place. There's really no other way to ensure that people in power do not use the children of other people as mere cannon fodder to further their own purposes.

Our leaders have been telling us for years now that we're in a war to save Western civilization. They now tell us the war in Iraq is part of the greater war, the "War on Terror." And yet the sons and daughters of these same leaders continue their parties, their education, their privileged lives, while the sons and daughters of ordinary Americans are overseas in a foreign land getting their bodies chopped up in the meat-grinder of a nasty war.

Mitt Romney says his sons are not fighting in Iraq because they're contributing to the war effort by helping him get elected president. When pressed, he mumbles that we have a "volunteer" army, so his sons don't need to serve.

Maybe Mitt Romney is too dense to understand that's precisely the problem: history shows than an American volunteer army will always be an army without full participation across the socioeconomic board. In this country, such an army always consists predominantly of lower middle class and poverty class kids, never an equal spread of risk.

It's not fair. It's hypocrisy. It's shameful to tell the American people this "War on Terror" is a war to save Western civilization while your own children continue their safe lives.

If this war in Iraq is so serious, every American should participate equally in its hazards.

But of course the war-mongers are not calling for a draft, because then the American people will be forced to sit up and take stock of whether they really want their children to go to Iraq to get their faces blown off. And of course if there's a draft, the children of the war-mongers might get drafted. Heaven forbid!

A draft to fight a just war will not ruin America. And if a war is not just, there should be no war at all.

During the Korean War, I was drafted into the U.S. Army after I finished college. I was lucky enough to come home alive and in one piece and continue my ordinary life. We fought the Korean War to contain expansionist Communism. The war lasted only a few years and then it stopped. I thought it was a just war and I've never regretted my service. There's no reason for anyone to fear a draft -- unless you're afraid a draft will turn the American people against a political policy that you know is self-serving and not in the interests of the all Americans -- or unless you're afraid your own children will face combat, or even afraid of yourself in combat.

If we're afraid of war, let's not fight wars. And if we think we need to fight a war, let's spread the risk evenly across our people.

When Dick Cheney was asked why he didn't serve in the Viet Nam War, he said he had "other priorities."

What priorities were greater than serving his country in a just war? And if the Viet Nam War was not just, why wasn't he out there with the others protesting the war?

What priorities are greater for Mitt Romney's sons than serving in a just war? And if the war in Iraq is not just, why doesn't he call to end it now?

During the next few weeks, the generals will fly in to tell us about the war in Iraq. The problem is generals are professional warriors who achieve more medals and status in wartime than in peacetime, and apparently too few of them understand that for this country their mission is not to fight war but to prevent it. Their bleat that they just follow orders is ridiculous. If a war is unjust, generals should feel obligated to refuse to wage such a war. And if they think this war is just, why aren't the generals in Iraq calling for a draft?

Above all, a continuing unjust war may kill us as a civilized people. Here are the words of Dave Grossman, a retired Lieutenant Colonel and former Army Ranger and paratrooper:

"We cannot help but come away with an image of war as one of the most horrifying and traumatic acts a human being can participate in. War is an environment that will psychologically debilitate 98 percent of all who participate in it for any length of time. And the 2 percent who are not driven insane by war appear to have already been insane -- aggressive psychopaths -- before coming to the battlefield."
It's an obscene injustice for the likes of George Bush, Dick Cheney, the rest of the gang in the White House, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Mitt Romney and the other Republican candidate mental dwarfs, Fox News, and all the other carnival barkers to keep telling us we need this war when it's obvious they're willing to sacrifice someone else's children but not their own.

Enough! If this war is to continue, we must institute a draft as soon as possible

Jennifer
09-10-2007, 05:25 PM
Why? We don't need a draft, we have volunteers so people like you can stay at home and arm-chair general with hindsight.

Or do you just want a Draft so that you can actually find a second correllation to Vietnam? (The first being a Congress that wants to run the war instead of letting the President and the Generals do it.)

Linkster
09-10-2007, 06:37 PM
Wow - youre saying that we dont need a draft? We have plenty of volunteers? Might want to go tell those generals that - they are being mislead by their manning staffs

As far as congress running the war - I think you will find that when it comes to undeclared laws that is the purpose of congress in the Constitution - if the presidents in both wars had simply declared a war - they wouldnt need to have congress in the mix - of course neither back then or now do we have a president with the guts to declare a war - Johnson didnt and Bush still hasnt

Jennifer
09-10-2007, 07:42 PM
I worked at a training base for the last 3 months of my contract, believe me, every bay was filled to capacity and some troops were housed in trailers because the base didn't have the room for all the recruits we had coming in.

However, I agree, we need to pull out of Germany, Korea, Japan, the Balkans, the Pacific Islands, in fact, pull out of everywhere EXCEPT Iraq and Afghanistan. Screw the rest of the world, they want to be secure, they can pay us or they can protect themselves. We are NOT the World's 911, we are America's 911.

cyan
09-10-2007, 08:10 PM
I worked at a training base for the last 3 months of my contract, believe me, every bay was filled to capacity and some troops were housed in trailers because the base didn't have the room for all the recruits we had coming in.

However, I agree, we need to pull out of Germany, Korea, Japan, the Balkans, the Pacific Islands, in fact, pull out of everywhere EXCEPT Iraq and Afghanistan. Screw the rest of the world, they want to be secure, they can pay us or they can protect themselves. We are NOT the World's 911, we are America's 911.

This is why we need outside bases. all about being able to control strategic points around the world.

Kadena Air Base at Okinawa, Japan, the "Home of the Shoguns," has as its mission the defense of US and Japanese mutual interests by providing a responsive staging and operational air base with integrated, deployable, forward based airpower. (http://www.libsci.sc.edu/bob/class/clis734/webguides/milbase.htm)

This is a bit excessive though. (http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/intervention/2003/0710imperialmap.htm)

radioguy
09-10-2007, 10:50 PM
I believe I just heard that the military has achieved 130% of their recruiting goal for 2007.

Sounds like their are a lot of young men and women in America that believe the war on terrorism is not only a worthy cause, but have decided to put their lives on the line to help America achieve victory against these radical Muslim murderers.

They display a level of patriotism and love for this country, that has been all but lost by those on the liberal left. It's sad that today we can't even tell the difference between the words of propaganda said by the man responsible for the attacks of 9/11, and the words of democratic party and those on the political left.
:(

Linkster
09-10-2007, 11:05 PM
I would tend to disagree with that number since they just announced today that the Army was able to wrngle up a 5% over goal for August and did not meet their goals for June and July - The August numbers reflect a bunch of people that were scheduled to enlist in Sept opting for the new $20k bonus "quick-ship" which will more than likely result in lower numbers for Sept - the last month of their fiscal reporting year

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/04/AR2007090401976.html

Interesting that overall the percentages of enlistment age are dropping considerably:
"Not many folks are just walking into the recruiting station saying this is what they want to do," Bostick said. Later, he added: "This is not just a challenge for the Army; it's a challenge for the nation."

Also worrisome for the Army is the dropping desire of young adults to serve in the military. Bostick said that 20 years ago, approximately 25 percent of people ages 17 to 24 showed a desire to serve in the military, a figure that has dropped to 15.7 percent today.

Linkster
09-10-2007, 11:09 PM
Its dissapointing when I come here and hear people spouting off what I just heard on the most conservative talk shows (I would have included liberal but I couldnt find any on the MSM as hard as I tried - even CNN was showing some idiot professing the next terror attack within days and how much fear we should be living under Right NOW!) as gospel and yet even the wording is right from the scripts of those shows
Hopefully one of these days we can get some people show up that will think for themselves and not have to deal with the ops that seem to flood all of the boards out there that are trying to have serious discussions

disrupter
09-11-2007, 04:56 AM
We need feedback in so many areas.

A draft for war.

Taxes for expenditures. [not numbing irresponsible deficits]

Votes that actually get counted & produce the election outcomes.

Keeping track of guns doled out in Iraq.

Keeping tabs on over 9 billion dollars in Iraq.

Taxpayer funded FDA. [not incestuous funding by drug companies]

Free lunches mislead you into thinking they appear from nowhere & that perhaps you 'deserve' eternal free lunches.

It is our sense of touch, smell, sight, taste & hearing that inform us of our world. To ignore input & feedback is an insanely absurd way to exist in a competitive domain.

A healthy governing system must have some reasonable feedback & sensory input or perish.