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LadyMod at scam.com
09-09-2007, 08:41 AM
The Dems will prove to have no backbone and Bush will keep his war. How long will Americans tolerate politicians who bow to Bush instead of those of the American people?
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Editorial
Hiding Behind the General

The military commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, is to deliver a report to Congress on Monday that could be the most consequential testimony by a wartime commander in more than a generation. What the country desperately needs is an honest assessment of the war and a clear strategy for extricating American forces from the hopeless spiral of violence in Iraq.

President Bush, however, seems to be aiming for maximum political advantage — not maximum clarity on Iraq’s military and political crises, which cannot be separated from each other. Mr. Bush, we fear, isn’t looking for the truth, only for ways to confound the public, scare Democrats into dropping their demands for a sound exit strategy, and prolong the war until he leaves office. At times, General Petraeus gives the disturbing impression that he, too, is more focused on the political game in Washington than the unfolding disaster in Iraq. That serves neither American nor Iraqi interests.

Mr. Bush, deeply unpopular with the American people, is counting on the general to restore credibility to his discredited Iraq policy. He frequently refers to the escalation of American forces last January as General Petraeus’s strategy — as if it were not his own creation. The situation echoes the way Mr. Bush made Colin Powell — another military man with an overly honed sense of a soldier’s duty — play frontman at the United Nations in 2003 to make the case that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Mr. Bush cannot once again subcontract his responsibility. This is his war.

General Petraeus has his own credibility problems. He overstepped in 2004 when he published an op-ed article in The Washington Post six weeks before the election. The general — then in charge of training and equipping Iraq’s security forces — rhapsodized about “tangible progress” and how the Iraqi forces were “developing steadily,” an assessment that may have swayed some voters but has long since proved to be untrue.

And just last week, senior military commanders in Baghdad who work for General Petraeus entered the political fray by taking issue — anonymously — with the grim assessment of Iraq’s politics and security by non-partisan Congressional investigators.

As Congress waited anxiously for General Petraeus’s testimony, a flurry of well-timed news reports said that he told the White House he could go along with the withdrawal of about 4,000 American troops beginning in January but wanted to maintain increased force levels well into next year — just like Mr. Bush. Democrats who once demanded a firm date for the start of a troop pullout immediately started backpedaling.

Withdrawing 4,000 troops and dangling the prospect of additional withdrawals is a token political gesture, not a new strategy. If it proves enough to cow Congress into halting its push for a more robust and concrete exit strategy, that would be political cowardice at its worst.

We hope that General Petraeus can resist the political pressure and provide an unvarnished assessment of the military situation in Iraq. He is an important source of information, of course, but he is only one source — and he is not the man who sets American policy. If Mr. Bush insists on listening only to those who agree with him, Congress and the public must weigh General Petraeus’s report against all data, including two new independent evaluations sharply at odds with the Pentagon’s claim that things in Iraq are substantially better.

The Government Accountability Office found that the Iraqi government has not met 11 of 18 benchmarks set by Congress and that violence remains high, despite the White House’s disingenuous claims of success. And a commission of retired senior military officers determined that Iraq’s army will be unable to take over responsibility for internal security in the next 12 to 18 months. That is four years beyond what the Pentagon predicted in 2004. It is too long.

Nothing has changed about Mr. Bush’s intentions. Waving off the independent reports, he plans to stay the course and make his successor fix his Iraq fiasco. Military progress without political progress is meaningless, and Mr. Bush no more has a plan for unifying Iraq now than when he started the war. The United States needs a prudent exit strategy that will withdraw American forces and try to stop Iraq’s chaos from spreading.

Linkster
09-09-2007, 01:31 PM
The point most people are missing is that those 4,000 - and another 26,000 two months later - are required to be brought home by law - they will be past their standard rotation and have fulfilled the 15 month extended deployment - and that is their NORMAL rotate out point - not some withdrawal as the administration is calling it - unless congress and the military agree on extending deployments past 15 months sometime in the future - those 30,000 total troops are coming home no matter what the political gestures indicate

Bill
09-09-2007, 04:21 PM
those 30,000 total troops are coming home no matter what the political gestures indicate

Unless the pentagon decides to keep them there.

Just change the regs and the laws. They've done it before.

I say, support the troops. Let them stay in Iraq permanently.

They fucked things up - let them stay until Iraq is fixed and pacified.

Linkster
09-09-2007, 08:06 PM
Bill :lmao2: I see we've got you on a roll today

Bill
09-09-2007, 09:31 PM
You and I both are fairly well informed as to the logistics of troop positioning and the combination of both the technical regulations AND the very real wear and exhaustion that are going to force some kind of drawdown of the existing deployment.

I think it's quite possible that the pentagon, possibly aided by congress, will change the regulations so that the troops can be kept longer and/or given shorter recovery times.

When the drawdown comes, inevitably the republicans and democrats both will crow about how they are responsible.

The republicans don't give a shit about the troops welfare, or their care after service. If they want to keep the troops there, let them.

They say the troops want to be there. So, let them be there.

If the republicans and the right wing want to leave our army in Iraq, to serve as a permenant police force to prop up shiite politicians, let them do it.

Linkster
09-09-2007, 10:01 PM
Bill - I dont think that they will extend the tours over there - even during Vietnam our standard tours stayed at 12 months - there is a huge physical and physcological toll that comes into play when you go much beyond 18 months which is whythey are playing the 15 month tour right now

If they declare the "war" over - then they can get into overseas deployment laws and regulations which are totally different - but there is that damned political repurcussion of declaring the war over

Bill
09-09-2007, 10:07 PM
Bill - I dont think that they will extend the tours over there - even during Vietnam our standard tours stayed at 12 months - there is a huge physical and physcological toll that comes into play when you go much beyond 18 months which is whythey are playing the 15 month tour right now


Well, you say things like that because you care about the troops.

The right wing only cares about power.

I think they would extend the tours rather than start a draft.

Since the Iraqi army and police are just shiite militias armed by the US, and of no use for keeping order in the country, if they want the oil they will have to keep the troops there to prop up the shiite government.

They'll need to send more troops there soon, not less.

Linkster
09-10-2007, 12:20 AM
The only reason I tend to think that they would consider not extending the tours any further (other than the real effect that it has on troops) is that it has a trickle-back effect. As you know I live in a very small southern red-neck area and have conversations with the guard guys that come back from there almost on a daily basis - watching the attitudes change over the last 3 years has been enlightening to say the least

It used to be that they would come back all gung-ho and talking to their buddies about how they ought to do an enlistment - if for no other reason than to get the extra money :)

Now they come home and are telling their buds to stay away - warnings and stories of the atrocities are becoming commonplace at the local watering holes here

The trickle-down effect is that all of the HS kids hear this stuff on a daily basis now - and this is a hugely conservative town - and I know from the recruiters here that come into my stores, that they cant get anyone to join up - even with the patriotism that is rampant

Bill
09-10-2007, 12:43 AM
You and I both know that doing it would be a horrible blow to the idea of a volunteer military, and would tend to have a bad effect on enlistment.

And of course the morale thing.

But, as we've been hearing for a while, the Iraqi police and army won't be ready for "12 to 18 more months" - and the reality is they are never going to be ready.

And, the guerillas there are following standard doctrine - fall back when the enemy concentrates, avoid strength, find and attack weakness, use delaying tactics, bleed the enemy logistically.

As soon as we draw down, they'll go back to direct civilian attacks.

If they draw down and don't get the oil, their corporate masters will punish them. The american people too, but clearly pols don't fear the people.

We're going to have to police the country for many years to come. So they'll have to extend tours and reduce rest periods at home.

According to the media, the troops say they like being there. I predict a flurry of news items saying that by spring.

Jennifer
09-10-2007, 05:42 PM
And yet, he said it was a resounding success and withdrawal now would be a bad thing.

Doesn't sound like he's hiding. Sounds like he's in there giving Congress the truth they don't want to hear. (Mainly because success would be very bad for their re-elections in 2009.)

Linkster
09-10-2007, 06:17 PM
Reminds me of the hearings I listened to when Westmoreland said the exact same things - as a matter of fact Im gonna have to look up one quip he made as I seem to remember that coming out of someone elses mouth back then