The case I hated losing most (long story)

[moonman]

But it points out the degree to which economic bias has spread through the system.

She was not the sharpest tool in the shed though she was a hardworking medical caregiver on the lowest rung of the employment ladder. She came to me seeking help answering an Unlawful Detainer complaint. She complained that even though she paid her rent she didn't understand why she was falling further behind.

Upon examination of her receipts I noticed that she paid a few days late most of the time and the landlord was applying rent to previous late charges. I subpoened the landlord's record and sure enough the landlord's own statement confirmed what I suspected.

Here in California a landlord cannot evict for non-payment of late charges. So we did our little dog and pony show for the court and I was confident that we would prevail. Upon hearing our case the Judge said I can come by a couple hours later and pickup the written decision.

I was stunned to see that the court didn't even address our issue. Just awarded judgment to the Plaintiff. I tried to convince her that we should appeal and that she could deposit her rent with the court while we wait for the appeal. (BTW, I charged her 25 bucks and she qualified for a court fee waiver.)

No she said she would just move. It isn't the first time I've seen someone at the bottom of the economic ladder choose flight over fight. Even when they are right both legallyand morally.

Frankly, I don't know why we bother with landlord/tenant court anymore.

[Bill]

Small claims court is a good old boys system that pretty much ignores the law and always sides with the interests of the local wealthy.

I used to have to do a lot of small claims stuff when I was just out of college, working in property management. Yes, I was the hated landlord. I used to argue all the companies cases personally - saved money, and the way small claims runs, you didn't need to be too saavy a legal mind to win regularly.

[kres24GT]

But it points out the degree to which economic bias has spread through the system.

She was not the sharpest tool in the shed though she was a hardworking medical caregiver on the lowest rung of the employment ladder. She came to me seeking help answering an Unlawful Detainer complaint. She complained that even though she paid her rent she didn't understand why she was falling further behind.

Upon examination of her receipts I noticed that she paid a few days late most of the time and the landlord was applying rent to previous late charges. I subpoened the landlord's record and sure enough the landlord's own statement confirmed what I suspected.

Here in California a landlord cannot evict for non-payment of late charges. So we did our little dog and pony show for the court and I was confident that we would prevail. Upon hearing our case the Judge said I can come by a couple hours later and pickup the written decision.

I was stunned to see that the court didn't even address our issue. Just awarded judgment to the Plaintiff. I tried to convince her that we should appeal and that she could deposit her rent with the court while we wait for the appeal. (BTW, I charged her 25 bucks and she qualified for a court fee waiver.)

No she said she would just move. It isn't the first time I've seen someone at the bottom of the economic ladder choose flight over fight. Even when they are right both legallyand morally.

Frankly, I don't know why we bother with landlord/tenant court anymore.


Hopefully these ridiculous laws telling people what they can do with their property will be thrown out one day, that way business owners can legally toss the scum.

[moonman]

Small claims court is a good old boys system that pretty much ignores the law and always sides with the interests of the local wealthy.

I used to have to do a lot of small claims stuff when I was just out of college, working in property management. Yes, I was the hated landlord. I used to argue all the companies cases personally - saved money, and the way small claims runs, you didn't need to be too saavy a legal mind to win regularly.

Yup it is that Bill. The two places where I have seen the most corruption is Federal bankruptcy courts and at the county level in the Public Guardian offices.

[moonman]

Hopefully these ridiculous laws telling people what they can do with their property will be thrown out one day, that way business owners can legally toss the scum.

Without knowing anything more about this women other than she couldn't afford to pay late charges on top of the rent, you call her "scum."

Your insight is truly extraordinary.

[kres24GT]

Without knowing anything more about this women other than she couldn't afford to pay late charges on top of the rent, you call her "scum."

Your insight is truly extraordinary.


Can't afford to pay your bills = scum.


Not hard to understand. I've been scum a few times in my younger days. Will be good to see one day when the government respects the property of citizens and small businesses and gets their nose out of their business.

[mwillman]

Wow kres

You empathy for others is heart rending.

The reason that the law doesnt allow landlords to do what they want is simple.

Many of them would and have abused and destroyed the lives of the tenents for no good reason.

By the same token if I use your logic then if I rent a building then I own it for that month and since the owner can do what ever he wants I could just destroy it.

[kres24GT]

Wow kres

You empathy for others is heart rending.

The reason that the law doesnt allow landlords to do what they want is simple.

Many of them would and have abused and destroyed the lives of the tenents for no good reason.

By the same token if I use your logic then if I rent a building then I own it for that month and since the owner can do what ever he wants I could just destroy it.


Of course people should be able to do whatever they want with their property. It's absolutely ridiculous we allow our politcians to tell us otherwise.

I guarantee this women has many comforts, cell phone, cable, etc. Yet she can't pay her rent. And this guy can't toss her for someone who can. Sad the politcians would rob a small business owner of the rights to use his property to make money.

No surprise that giant corporations are taking over and that soon small business will be a thing of the past. As the politcians pass more and more laws that are guised as "consumer protection" they giant corporations get bigger and bigger as they are the only ones who can afford to comply with this never ending list of regulations.

The sob stories and the idea of empathy or irrelevant. Legislating morality and ethics is not something I want to grant to the politcians.

[mwillman]

Well Sorry Kres but I dont trust all landlords to do the right thing and most people agree wiith me thats why there are tenent laws.

By the way if we dont legislate morals and ethics then I could steal from you and harm you all I wanted.

[Betty Blowtorch]

About 15 years ago, I moved out of an apartment. I spent
a full day cleaning the place and left it in perfect condition.

Nevertheless, the property management company refused
to return my $600 deposit, claiming they had to have the
apartment cleaned and painted.

When I complained, their attitude was: "If you don't like it,
sue us." I got the impression that I'm not the only tenant
they've ripped off this way.

Fortunately there's a Tenant Rights Board in Los Angeles,
funded by the federal department of Housing and Urban
Development. I called them and found out that the law
was on my side.

They told me to write a letter to the management company,
informing them that I would file a complaint with the Tenant
Rights Board if they don't return my deposit immediately.

A week later my deposit was returned, along with a letter
claiming that this was all just a misunderstanding caused
by a "clerical error."

I'm a strong believer in consumer protection laws because
I know that corporations can be unscrupulous. And since
they have all the money and the lawyers, they can often
grind the little guy into the dirt.

[kres24GT]

Well Sorry Kres but I dont trust all landlords to do the right thing and most people agree wiith me thats why there are tenent laws.

By the way if we dont legislate morals and ethics then I could steal from you and harm you all I wanted.


There are tenant laws because politcians saw they could win votes by legislating tenant contracts instead of leaving it up to free people to do so. If people are free to negotiate their own contracts, that takes work. It's easier just to have the politicians legislate these contracts for us with a metric shit ton of laws and regulations that basically make every rental contract the same, or at least absolves the renter form having to actually read it.

Also works out great for the large apartment companies, but putting the little guys out of business. Does wonders for raising rent and squashing freedom, all to avoid having to read and negotiate a rental contract ourselves.

[kres24GT]

About 15 years ago, I moved out of an apartment. I spent
a full day cleaning the place and left it in perfect condition.

Nevertheless, the property management company refused
to return my $600 deposit, claiming they had to have the
apartment cleaned and painted.

When I complained, their attitude was: "If you don't like it,
sue us." I got the impression that I'm not the only tenant
they've ripped off this way.

Fortunately there's a Tenant Rights Board in Los Angeles,
funded by the federal department of Housing and Urban
Development. I called them and found out that the law
was on my side.

They told me to write a letter to the management company,
informing them that I would file a complaint with the Tenant
Rights Board if they don't return my deposit immediately.

A week later my deposit was returned, along with a letter
claiming that this was all just a misunderstanding caused
by a "clerical error."

I'm a strong believer in consumer protection laws because
I know that corporations can be unscrupulous. And since
they have all the money and the lawyers, they can often
grind the little guy into the dirt.


Big corporations love consumer protection laws. They keep the little guys out of business and help hurt competition. yeah they may cry a little here and there, but most of these laws are written by the biggest companies so that it will run the competition out of business.

Helping out corporate interest and pandering to the ignorant masses who are all too willing to vote away their freedom. Win win for the politcians.

[Jennifer]

#1) I think a person should be able to allow people to rent or kick them out of their own property for any reason. That's what ownership is supposed to be good for! The old rights to life, liberty and PROPERTY. (the original statement before bastardization in the DOI.)

#2) Since when have courts been fair? We have the best legal system money can buy! Obviously, she couldn't afford the ruling she wanted and was over ruled. Sorry. Don't like it? Institute judicial recall on every level, might see some changes then.

#3) Moving's a bitch. Sorry to hear about the troubles.

[mwillman]

Of course you do jennifer but fortunately the country you live in doesnt agree.

You make every choose based purely on how it might profit you the best and its that mind set that tenent law protects people from. You need to start looking at the society and the rights of all people in this nation not just those that have the most money.

You keep saying you are against fat cats but you want a system that is totally subserviant to those same fat cats.

[kres24GT]

Of course you do jennifer but fortunately the country you live in doesnt agree.

You make every choose based purely on how it might profit you the best and its that mind set that tenent law protects people from. You need to start looking at the society and the rights of all people in this nation not just those that have the most money.

You keep saying you are against fat cats but you want a system that is totally subserviant to those same fat cats.


All a law like this does is increase the cost of compliance and drive down competition. It helps big business and hurts the little guy. If you are willing to give the biggest of the big corporations more power just so you don't have to read a lease before you sign it you should probably shoot yourself.

[mwillman]

Please Kres go blow your load where it belongs namely your toilet.

The majority of landlords are not large corporations and the majority of slum lords are also not large corporations. You have some issues that seem to keep you from seeing anything except what you want to see and as such your opinions lack reality.

[kres24GT]

Please Kres go blow your load where it belongs namely your toilet.

The majority of landlords are not large corporations and the majority of slum lords are also not large corporations. You have some issues that seem to keep you from seeing anything except what you want to see and as such your opinions lack reality.


I don't know where you live but once company owns a huge % of the apartments in Atlanta. It will only get larger. Post Apartments.


You are right though, it really isn't relevant. The point is it is ridiculous we allow the government to tell us the condition in which we may rent OUR property to others.

[mwillman]

The government doesnt tell you who to rent to or weather or not you can rent.

What it does do is make sure that the owner cant kick someone out once they are in unless they have a very powerfull reason. If a person or business decides to go into the rental business they have to abid by the rules of business which includes protecting tenents from lossing thier homes at the landlords whim.

Being a landlord is a business just like any other and laws are created to insure a fair just market for all.

[moonman]

Of course people should be able to do whatever they want with their property. It's absolutely ridiculous we allow our politcians to tell us otherwise.

I guarantee this women has many comforts, cell phone, cable, etc. Yet she can't pay her rent. And this guy can't toss her for someone who can. Sad the politcians would rob a small business owner of the rights to use his property to make money.

No surprise that giant corporations are taking over and that soon small business will be a thing of the past. As the politcians pass more and more laws that are guised as "consumer protection" they giant corporations get bigger and bigger as they are the only ones who can afford to comply with this never ending list of regulations.

The sob stories and the idea of empathy or irrelevant. Legislating morality and ethics is not something I want to grant to the politcians.

Yer wrong kres. She did pay her rent. She was evicted for accumulated late charges. She didn't have a cell phone and she was sole support for a daughter and grandchild.

[moonman]

About 15 years ago, I moved out of an apartment. I spent
a full day cleaning the place and left it in perfect condition.

Nevertheless, the property management company refused
to return my $600 deposit, claiming they had to have the
apartment cleaned and painted.

When I complained, their attitude was: "If you don't like it,
sue us." I got the impression that I'm not the only tenant
they've ripped off this way.

Fortunately there's a Tenant Rights Board in Los Angeles,
funded by the federal department of Housing and Urban
Development. I called them and found out that the law
was on my side.

They told me to write a letter to the management company,
informing them that I would file a complaint with the Tenant
Rights Board if they don't return my deposit immediately.

A week later my deposit was returned, along with a letter
claiming that this was all just a misunderstanding caused
by a "clerical error."

I'm a strong believer in consumer protection laws because
I know that corporations can be unscrupulous. And since
they have all the money and the lawyers, they can often
grind the little guy into the dirt.

Betty, we're almost neighbors!!! And your post explains why I will always work for the little guy. Thanks for a good read.

[kres24GT]

Yer wrong kres. She did pay her rent. She was evicted for accumulated late charges. She didn't have a cell phone and she was sole support for a daughter and grandchild.


Wow has kids she can't afford... awesome. Surprise surprise.

Anyway, don't be late with the rent. The main point here is the absurdity that we allow the government to interfere with business of two consenting adults.

[kres24GT]

The government doesnt tell you who to rent to or weather or not you can rent.

What it does do is make sure that the owner cant kick someone out once they are in unless they have a very powerfull reason. If a person or business decides to go into the rental business they have to abid by the rules of business which includes protecting tenents from lossing thier homes at the landlords whim.

Being a landlord is a business just like any other and laws are created to insure a fair just market for all.


LMAO @ "fair"

If I enter into a contract with you regarding the rental of a piece of property, the terms should be of no concern of the government unless there is a breech of contract.

[kres24GT]

mwillman

I would also like to say that your bigotry toward landlords is disgusting. "I don't trust them.." Sounds like some Klan members down here in GA. "I don't trust 'em Negroes, we need lock 'em all up before they rob me or rape my daughter."

[moonman]

Wow has kids she can't afford... awesome. Surprise surprise.

Anyway, don't be late with the rent. The main point here is the absurdity that we allow the government to interfere with business of two consenting adults.

The U.S. Constitution gives the federal gubment the responsiblity to "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes." (Emphasis added)

Every constitution of each State in the union grants authority to the State gubment to regulate commerce within the State.

What you advocate kres is repugnant to our law.

[kres24GT]

The U.S. Constitution gives the federal gubment the responsiblity to "To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes." (Emphasis added)

Every constitution of each State in the union grants authority to the State gubment to regulate commerce within the State.

What you advocate kres is repugnant to our law.


Sad that we are so willing to easily lay down our freedoms because politcians tell us they know what is best for us.

I take it you are a big George Bush and Dick Cheney fan?

[moonman]

Sad that we are so willing to easily lay down our freedoms because politcians tell us they know what is best for us.

I take it you are a big George Bush and Dick Cheney fan?

You are wrong again, kres. In my six or so weeks of posting here you have not got one single fact correct. I have never supported Bush/Cheney. What I do support is the legal process and lawful redress of grievances.

Lawful is operative word. Lunatics such as yourself confuse freedom with anarchy and tyranny. As certainly as we might follow your ideas, the result would not be freedom but tyranny.

[kres24GT]

You are wrong again, kres. In my six or so weeks of posting here you have not got one single fact correct. I have never supported Bush/Cheney. What I do support is the legal process and lawful redress of grievances.

Lawful is operative word. Lunatics such as yourself confuse freedom with anarchy and tyranny. As certainly as we might follow your ideas, the result would not be freedom but tyranny.

Sorry, I assumed since you like tyranny and hate freedom you support Bush and Cheney, my mistake.

[mwillman]

Kres

Your political theory belongs in the days of fuedalism. There is no legal system in the world of any note that has what you want in it. Nor will there be since it is nothing but financial tyranny. Those with the most money get to make the rules and no one else matters.

You think its freedom but you havent thought it all the way through or if you have then i can only guess that you are one of the moneyed elite that wants an Aristocracy of the Wealthy.

[moonman]

Kres

Your political theory belongs in the days of fuedalism. There is no legal system in the world of any note that has what you want in it. Nor will there be since it is nothing but financial tyranny. Those with the most money get to make the rules and no one else matters.

You think its freedom but you havent thought it all the way through or if you have then i can only guess that you are one of the moneyed elite that wants an Aristocracy of the Wealthy.

I suspect he's the typical redneck in desparate need of a good dental plan.

[kres24GT]

Kres

Your political theory belongs in the days of fuedalism. There is no legal system in the world of any note that has what you want in it. Nor will there be since it is nothing but financial tyranny. Those with the most money get to make the rules and no one else matters.

You think its freedom but you havent thought it all the way through or if you have then i can only guess that you are one of the moneyed elite that wants an Aristocracy of the Wealthy.


You seem to be confused. In my system people are free to make their choices, as opposed to the current system where big corporations run the country via legislating away the freedoms of the consumers and masses and taking money via taxes.


In your system where giant corporations write the legislation and sell it to via politcians and "reform" and "regulation" is what IS NOW accomplishing the very thing you claim not to want.

[mwillman]

I dont disagree that corporations in this nation often have to much power but giving them more power by removing regulations is not going to help the rest of us.

[Betty Blowtorch]

You seem to be confused. In my system people are free
to make their choices, as opposed to the current system
where big corporations run the country via legislating away
the freedoms of the consumers and masses and taking
money via taxes.

In your system where giant corporations write the legislation
and sell it to via politcians and "reform" and "regulation" is what
IS NOW accomplishing the very thing you claim not to want.
Actually you seem a little confused and vague on details.
In describing your ideal political system, you devoted
a total of seven words:

"people are free to make their choices."

Care to elaborate? Are there building codes in your world,
or would that infringe on the freedom of contractors and
landlords to build cheap, substandard, dangerous firetraps
guaranteed to collapse in an earthquake or a hurricane?

Do big corporations behave differently in your world?
Do big corporations NOT control the government in your
fictional world?

What entity would be powerful enough to prevent the big
corporations from dominating and controlling your utopian
political system and using it for their own greedy ends?

[kres24GT]

Actually you seem a little confused and vague on details.
In describing your ideal political system, you devoted
a total of seven words:

"people are free to make their choices."

Care to elaborate? Are there building codes in your world,
or would that infringe on the freedom of contractors and
landlords to build cheap, substandard, dangerous firetraps
guaranteed to collapse in an earthquake or a hurricane?

Do big corporations behave differently in your world?
Do big corporations NOT control the government in your
fictional world?

What entity would be powerful enough to prevent the big
corporations from dominating and controlling your utopian
political system and using it for their own greedy ends?


Ummm... free people. Who will be requiring you to give these greedy corporations money?

[Betty Blowtorch]

Ummm... free people. Who will be requiring you to give
these greedy corporations money?
Don't answer a question with a question.

It looks like you haven't thought things through well enough
that you can give any specific details about this wonderfully
free and liberated political system you advocate.

You just like to bitch and blame everybody else for the fact
that you have to pay taxes and give up some of your freedom
as the price you pay for living in the real world instead of your
unrealistic fantasy world.

[kres24GT]

Don't answer a question with a question.

It looks like you haven't thought things through well enough
that you can give any specific details about this wonderfully
free and liberated political system you advocate.

You just like to bitch and blame everybody else for the fact
that you have to pay taxes and give up some of your freedom
as the price you pay for living in the real world instead of your
unrealistic fantasy world.


I am sorry you aren't capable of comprehending people making free choices.

Thanks to people like you we will continue to elect president's like Bush and see an end to our freedom.

[moonman]

Hi Betty, I asked kres similar Q's awhile back and he avoided the answer like a typical cultist, coward or intellectual fraud.

[kres24GT]

Hi Betty, I asked kres similar Q's awhile back and he avoided the answer like a typical cultist, coward or intellectual fraud.


Again I am sorry that you and others cannot envision a world where we do not need government to make decisions for us, and we are free to make them for ourselves.

Again, it's no wonder we have the president we do now.