War Widow Snubbed by Bush

[Linkster]

http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=9345

She's the one that fought to make it legal to put her religious symbol on her husbands grave (Wiccan) - just like all the rest of the religions - but seems that when Bush invited all of the relatives of her dead husband for a meet-and-greet she was purposely left off the list

[Bill]

Who was it that said that 9/11 was all the witches fault?

Lesbos too, I gather - some religious freak, Falwell or Robertson?

Punishment from god because america didn't allow the burning of witches, or something like that.

I'll bet Bush and the rabid reds are big on that theory.

[Linkster]

That was Ann Coulter I believe you are referring to - she was talking about the first widows from 9/11 who were putting up the good fight for a real investigation (from East Brunswick) and she called the the Witches of East Brunswick - and accusing them of "enjoying" 9/11

[disrupter]

Falwell & Roberston said America deserved what happened to it on 911.

Traitors to America & Americans.

They were effectively cheering the terrorists on.

[Linkster]

I guess a case could be made that America really does deserve it - but Im sure my position would be a lot different than the one they were trying to promote - mine would be from the point of view that those types of things do happen when you allow a dictatorship to take over a country for years and especially one that professes globalization by force and colonalism. History is full of empires that did the same thing and had the exact same results

[Krome]

Falwell & Roberston said America deserved what happened to it on 911.

Traitors to America & Americans.

They were effectively cheering the terrorists on.

It would be very easy to justify that comment with Americas foreign policy towards various arabs over the past 20 years.

[Bill]

Speaking of witches...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20486567/

[disrupter]

deserved is such a morally loaded [spun] term.

What we should do if we were rational adults is keep in mind the consequences of our actions when it comes to foreign policy. And stand up to our more often than not foolish government.

That said, the NSA is the one who inflicted 911 on us.
novice pilots who can't even manage a cessna can NOT skim the ground at 400 mph 6 to 9 feet off the ground, which an experience pilot couldn't do,

And they Sure the Fuck can't make a jumbo jet invisible on a brilliantly sunny day on video.

Don't let any tendency towards guilt blind you to the facts about who & what did 911. Your own government did that to you. The US government is a traitor to the people who are in fact America.

The US government in this case is the terrorist organization,
& many cascading consquences have & continue to flow from the deception about the perpetrators.

[Jennifer]

Excuse me, but is it not George Bush's decision who he will or will not invite? (assuming the secret service okays the list.)

So he did not want to associate with a wiccan. So? I don't like to associate with certain people either and will work to avoid them. They are generally easy to avoid because they are in jail, but that doesn't change the facts.

[disrupter]

And Jennifer knows exactly who is in jail,
because that is where she is.

The Republican Wind machine probably farms out their loud bizarre noise to desperate penitentiary inmates, who will do anything for a cancer stick.
Probably produce inmate porn as well.

Another Republican gash bag in action.

Jennifer, make sure you only perform safe-sex during your 'film' career.

[Jennifer]

More ad hominem attacks, libel, slander and strawman arguments. Honestly, disruptor, do you ever say anything with import, or are do you just get your jollies from being a loud mouth?

[Bill]

Jennifer has a point. Just because you find her rhetoric preposterous and totally pre-packaged, doesn't mean you should attack her as a human.

She has as much right to be wrong as anyone.

Besides, her side is weaker all the time. It's not polite to kick a man (or woman) when he's (or she's) down.

The temptation to go ad moninem is understandable, after all, her side started with the ad hominen first, and have raised it and strawmen and the other logical fallacies to an art form much beloved by the rabid redders everywhere.

But, there is another option - laughter.

[Linkster]

I agree - its a lot more fun having two sided discussions and attacks on people for their views is really not an aim of this board - attack the view but leave the messenger out of it :thumbsup:

[Bill]

I just so wish we could find writers for the other side that made sense and didn't just repeat tired old nonsense.

I still have hopes. Someday a real conservative will come.

[disrupter]

to have two or more worthy sides there must be some foundation in actual logic & evidence,

otherwise it is just superstition.

after being told it is unpatriotic to question a reckless adventure in Iraq, perhaps my spring loaded counter attack is too tight, but in context i think these people are knowingly or unknowingly supporting wickedness.
Contemptible, unmitigated, inhumane greed.

how can one rationalize our causing the deaths of almost a million Iraqis,
when they had no WMDs & no connection to 911?

that is just monsterous.

keep in mind 40 percent of Americans STILL think Iraq was involved in 911
& 20 percent think most of the supposed hijackers were Iraqis, 14% think Iran.
Further, a majority of people couldn't identify Saudia Arabia as the country of origin of most of the 9/11 hijackers, even given the question in multiple choice format. 20% answered Iraq, while 14% believed the hijackers came from Iran.http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Poll_41_of_Americans_believe_Saddam_0624.html

I live in the United States,
and when this kind of foolish public opinon & rhetoric is steering my home, my nation into oblivion, yes it is personal.

Maybe you have a ranch in argentina like bush you can run off to,
i don't.
i make or break here.
fools are not permitted to spout off unaddressed.
survival is not about proprieties it is about whatever is needed gets used or you die.
These fools are destroying my nation & putting me at risk.

Is it not the same for you?

They have stolen elections,
murdered 3000 americans on 911
are looting the treasury,

and now you expect some kind of polite treatment for them & their fool defenders?

Ka Ching, $orry, No $ale.

[Jennifer]

I just so wish we could find writers for the other side that made sense and didn't just repeat tired old nonsense.

I still have hopes. Someday a real liberal (edit to make sense and be correct) will come.


Sorry, but the arguments of the left seem to be the same tired old thing. They cannot win the battle on morality or conscious and their domestic policy is so sorely lacking in ability to get the job done, nations are dropping it left and right for the conservative model. So all they have left is unwarranted, biased assaults on the character of conservatives.

To support their ad hominem attacks they'll even invent evidence if they have too. When called on it, they form straw man arguments to try and derail the discussion into a field they think they can win.

[disrupter]

it isn't about morality it is about reality,

the place where the adults live.

[Linkster]

Bill - thats the problem - there are very few true conservatives these days - most of the real conservatives have died off long ago and were replaced by democrats andd republicans that are all the same money grubbing politicians out for the quick bucks - I havent heard a true conservative talk in ages and doubt that any really exist anymore.
As a friend once told me - being a follower without question or in agreement with whomever calls themselves conservative automatically disqualifies you - and just makes you like all the rest - a sheep and conformist

[Jennifer]

Bill - thats the problem - there are very few true conservatives these days - most of the real conservatives have died off long ago and were replaced by democrats andd republicans that are all the same money grubbing politicians out for the quick bucks - I havent heard a true conservative talk in ages and doubt that any really exist anymore.
As a friend once told me - being a follower without question or in agreement with whomever calls themselves conservative automatically disqualifies you - and just makes you like all the rest - a sheep and conformist


I agree, the last person I have heard speak that was an elected true conservative was Newt Gingrich. He was run out of office for having affairs outside of his marriage. However, as common place as that is in today's society, maybe it is time for him to come back and restore the party to it's Reganism?


Anyway, conservation to me is:

1 Defending the environment against real threats. (Biotoxins, clear cutting, artificial dams, etc.)
2 Slashing government size and budget. Our founding fathers specifically did not levy a tax on the people because they wanted a small government.
3 Pulling out of the world. Screw them. Bring our boys home from Korea, Germany, Japan, and every where else they are.
4 Leaving the Useless Nations. We owe fealty to no other government or body of people. We are sovereign in our own right.
5 Enforce the Constitution, as written. Don't read into it. Don't skip lines. If it's there, it's there. If it is not there, it is not there and you should leave it to the states.

Just to name my top five.

[Linkster]

Jennifer - unfortunately that is a long way from being conservative in the traditional manner - the last real conservative I can remember in my lifetime was Goldwater
Every one of your points has some roots to Federalism but definitely not conservativism
These days the news media on both sides tries to put labels on people as conservatives - but really the ones they usually label that way are right-winged nutcases - just as they do with "liberals" who are usually left-wing nutcases
This new conservatism is really where the term neocon comes from - these are people that flock to the republican party because it is where the conservative base was 50 years ago - but not a one of them is rooted in the old conservative values
Gingrich was a middle-roader who really started this movement of fake conservatives by replacing the name with things like family values and BS like that - which was never a central point to conservatism