Crucifix Not Allowed At Work After 30 Years

[Boogie man]

A Christian nurse who was moved to a desk job after refusing to remove her crucifix has lost a claim for discrimination.

Published: 3:17PM BST 06 Apr 2010

Shirley Chaplin, 54, took the Royal Devon and Exeter NHS Trust Hospital to an employment tribunal, claiming that taking off a necklace bearing a crucifix would ''violate her faith''.

The trust said the move was not specifically about the crucifix, but about health and safety concerns about patients grabbing necklaces.

Mr Hollow ruled the trust had acted in a ''reasonable'' manner in trying to reach a compromise.

He said the damage to her was ''slight'' and noted that wearing a crucifix was not a requirment of the Christian faith.

In a 71-point statement, Mrs Chaplin, who wore the crucifix to the hearing in her home city of Exeter, said she was ''personally convicted'' to wear the emblem, given to her as a confirmation gift in 1971.

She said: ''I have been a nurse for roughly 30 years and throughout that time I have worn my crucifix. The crucifix is an exceptionally important expression of my faith and my belief in the Lord Jesus Christ.

''To deliberately remove or hide my crucifix or to treat it disrespectfully would violate my faith.''

She started working for the trust continuously in 1989, being made a grade D nurse in 1994, and promoted to an E grade nurse on 2001.

Wearing the old uniform, the cross was visible and she wore it safely for 30 years, Mrs Chaplin said.

When a new-style uniform was introduced, there were still no issues until she was asked to remove the necklace last summer

It was suggested she pin the crucifix inside her uniform but Mrs Chaplin could not accept that.

She explained: ''I was being asked to hide my religion and my faith. I found it disrespectful.''

In September a request to keep the cross pinned outside her uniform was turned down, she said.

This answer ''confirmed to me that they simply wanted to remove the visibility of the crucifix'', she said.

Last July, she was told she was facing a ''disciplinary sanction''. In August she was threatened with formal disciplinary action.

She said she received a letter in September telling her the cross was not a ''mandatory requirement'' of her faith, unlike Muslim headscarves, which ''therefore could be exempted''.

She said: ''I view this as a clear discrimination against Christians. The respondent (the trust) clearly regarded themselves as experts on religious manifestations of all faiths.''

Later that month she accepted formal re-deployment from frontline duties.

Mrs Chaplin's case was highlighted by the Archbishop of Canterbury in his Easter sermon last weekend when he referred to ''wooden-headed bureaucratic silliness'' which has seen some Christians stopped from wearing religious symbols at work.

Rowan Williams said there was a ''strange mixture of contempt and fear'' towards Christianity.

But he urged believers to keep a sense of perspective in the face of opposition and ''think about the larger picture''.

After the hearing Mrs Chaplin said the result was "a very bad day for Christianity."

Asked about her future she said: "I don't know. I wait to find out - but I will be going to work tomorrow."

She vowed not to remove the crucifix, explaining: "I wouldn't have gone this far if I was prepared to take it off.

"I was always prepared to modify the chain with a magnetic clasp(meaning that it would separate more easily if grabbed by a patient)."

Mrs Chaplin, a member of the Free Church of England, added: "I think any Christian in the workplace must be extremely careful to mention the word 'Christianity'."

Asked if she thought other faiths were treated differently, she said: "I think from the press that seems fairly evident."

She conceded that her case was always going to be hard to win as she was "one person taking on a government body."

Mrs Chaplin had considered flexible working after retirement but that avenue was now closed to her, she said.

She explained: "Nurses can retire at 55 but the majority then go back on a nurse bank and to do shifts that suit them. So basically they've taken that option away from me."

Her lawyer Paul Diamond said the case would now go to employment appeal tribunal in London.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7560059/Christian-nurse-who-refused-to-remove-crucifix-loses-tribunal.html

[Boogie man]

If I was her I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Smurf-Herder]

So, for 30 years they didn't care about patients grabbing necklaces, but now all of a sudden they do?

Sounds screwy.

[doctordog]

So, for 30 years they didn't care about patients grabbing necklaces, but now all of a sudden they do?

Sounds screwy.

Mark my words, clit rings will be next because of tetanus concerns:thumbsup:

[Boogie man]

Mark my words, clit rings will be next because of tetanus concerns:thumbsup:

That's the last straw.

[Hawkeye2j]

health and safety concerns about patients grabbing necklaces.
Sound very reasonable to me.

[doctordog]

health and safety concerns about patients grabbing necklaces.
Sound very reasonable to me.

After being ignored for 30 years? Sounds like harassment followed by an agenda to me.

[Hawkeye2j]

I can show you a dozen workplace safety hazards that had been ignored for 30 years and then brought up. Higher frequency of accidents will cause the regulation to be made. Stop looking for conspiracies, you look ridiculous.

[Smurf-Herder]

I can show you a dozen workplace safety hazards that had been ignored for 30 years and then brought up. Higher frequency of accidents will cause the regulation to be made. Stop looking for conspiracies, you look ridiculous.

Like the 911 Truthers?

[Libertarian94]

I can show you a dozen workplace safety hazards that had been ignored for 30 years and then brought up. Higher frequency of accidents will cause the regulation to be made. Stop looking for conspiracies, you look ridiculous.


Its a fucking necklace seriously?:banghead:

[Hawkeye2j]

Its a fucking necklace seriously?:banghead:
My wife worked at nursing homes. She told me patients will grab onto anything when they get upset. It is a very reasonable rule.

[Libertarian94]

My wife worked at nursing homes. She told me patients will grab onto anything when they get upset. It is a very reasonable rule.


Reasonable to who?

[Boogie man]

My wife worked at nursing homes. She told me patients will grab onto anything when they get upset. It is a very reasonable rule.

Oh bullshit. We all know why they are banning this crucifix and it's not for safety.

[Hawkeye2j]

Oh bullshit. We all know why they are banning this crucifix and it's not for safety.
Oh I forgot, you believe in the fantasy war on Christianity. How Glenn Beckish of you.

[Libertarian94]

Reasonable to who?


im waiting hawk...

[Boogie man]

Oh I forgot, you believe in the fantasy war on Christianity. How Glenn Beckish of you.

When you are ready to discuss the topic then let me know and I'll provide plenty of stuff to keep you busy in your so called "fantasy".

[Hawkeye2j]

im waiting hawk...
Any thinking person

[Hawkeye2j]

When you are ready to discuss the topic then let me know and I'll provide plenty of stuff to keep you busy in your so called "fantasy".
Go for it. It is a complete fantasy of the Right Wing

[Kanadesaga]

Like the 911 Truthers?

Or birthers? or deathers? or anything glenn beck says. :lmao2:

[doctordog]

I can show you a dozen workplace safety hazards that had been ignored for 30 years and then brought up. Higher frequency of accidents will cause the regulation to be made. Stop looking for conspiracies, you look ridiculous.

Piss on you and your continuous insults. You make more than anyone and are always the first one to whine about it,

[Boogie man]

Go for it. It is a complete fantasy of the Right Wing

Here is a link to a story. You tell me which point you want to prove is a lie.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47659

[Hawkeye2j]

Piss on you and your continuous insults. You make more than anyone and are always the first one to whine about it,
Where is the insult? Looking ridiculous is the observation of believers of conspiracy.

[doctordog]

Where is the insult? Looking ridiculous is the observation of believers of conspiracy.

There is conspiracy and I never said there was linkster boy.

[Hawkeye2j]

Here is a link to a story. You tell me which point you want to prove is a lie.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47659

Well the first point is easy. It is World Net Daily. Right away that makes it suspect.

[Libertarian94]

Or birthers? or deathers? or anything glenn beck says. :lmao2:


Beck doesn't support any of those movements... I wish I could not know what I was talking about.:reading:

[Smurf-Herder]

Beck doesn't support any of those movements... I wish I could not know what I was talking about.:reading:

And he actually debunked the Concentration Camp conspiracy theory too.

[foxbaron]

So, for 30 years they didn't care about patients grabbing necklaces, but now all of a sudden they do?

Sounds screwy.


SMURF,

You just don't understand. It took the patients 30 years to figure out they could grab her crucifix. Either that or they have a whole new group of grabby ass patients.

I wonder if perhaps her crucifix gave comfort to some patients and made them feel as if they were in more caring hands than they normally would have felt.

Evidently she is pretty damn fast on her feet as no one in 30 years ever choked her with her crucifix.

Its just one more attack against Christianity.

Hide them crucifixes and put on them headscarfs.

Let's see: Headscarfs=Islam=Allah
Crucifix=Christianity=God

Now do you understand.

[John Galt]

Any nurses in this discussion? If not, then perhaps you should check your facts.

She wasn't asked to remove the crucifix.


Her words...

''personally convicted'' to wear the emblem, given to her as a confirmation gift in 1971.

Nobody told her that she had to remove it. She seems to need to have it in everyone's face.


I've given my GF a lot of jewelry over the years. Some is very expensive, some is only worth a few hundred dollars.

She wears NO jewelry at work. Especially in a hospital. It is common for elderly patients that suffer from dementia to grab at necklaces.

This is standard procedure in the nursing industry.



next case

[kres24GT]

If she doesn't like it, go get a job somewhere else.

[John Galt]

If she doesn't like it, go get a job somewhere else.
Damn...suddenly that phrase doesn't seem like the end all copout answer.

[Boogie man]

Well the first point is easy. It is World Net Daily. Right away that makes it suspect.

Still waiting.

[Boogie man]

Any nurses in this discussion? If not, then perhaps you should check your facts.

She wasn't asked to remove the crucifix.


Her words...



Nobody told her that she had to remove it. She seems to need to have it in everyone's face.


I've given my GF a lot of jewelry over the years. Some is very expensive, some is only worth a few hundred dollars.

She wears NO jewelry at work. Especially in a hospital. It is common for elderly patients that suffer from dementia to grab at necklaces.

This is standard procedure in the nursing industry.



next case

Now tell us when all the nuns who work with people are going to remove their crucifix that they continually shove in our faces. Thanks.

[Boogie man]

Any nurses in this discussion? If not, then perhaps you should check your facts.

She wasn't asked to remove the crucifix.


Her words...



Nobody told her that she had to remove it. She seems to need to have it in everyone's face.


I've given my GF a lot of jewelry over the years. Some is very expensive, some is only worth a few hundred dollars.

She wears NO jewelry at work. Especially in a hospital. It is common for elderly patients that suffer from dementia to grab at necklaces.

This is standard procedure in the nursing industry.



next case

LOL. Read the very first line of the OP.

[T-Cat]

LOL. Read the very first line of the OP.
LOL. Read the OP including the line:

It was suggested she pin the crucifix inside her uniform but Mrs Chaplin could not accept that.

[John Galt]

LOL. Read the very first line of the OP.
And?..........

[mrmeangenes]

After being ignored for 30 years? Sounds like harassment followed by an agenda to me.

You didn't notice the part about the change in uniforms ?

[Smurf-Herder]

You didn't notice the part about the change in uniforms ?

In the story, it says the crucifix was visible when wearing the old uniform too.

[John Galt]

http://books.google.com/books?id=tB1YiYj_kdkC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=nursing+guidelines+regarding+necklaces&source=bl&ots=xBOHEzcKNy&sig=NzHP3NIbWi6Tocja_NTvHdQilUQ&hl=en&ei=7me-S5S2OML88AbSteTWCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=nursing%20guidelines%20regarding%20necklaces&f=false


I can't c/p this page. Read the box on the right...specifically the issues of jewelry.


This is nursing 101.

But, of course everyone here knows better.

[Boogie man]

LOL. Read the OP including the line:

And rightly so. It's no one's business where she wears it as long as she does her job and she has done her job for 30 years. Try again.

[Boogie man]

And?..........

You said no one asked her to remove her crucifix. Evidently they did because the first sentence says she refused to remove it and was given a desk job. In order to refuse something you have to be asked something.

Common sense.

[T-Cat]

And rightly so. It's no one's business where she wears it as long as she does her job and she has done her job for 30 years. Try again.They said she could wear it if she tucked it in. It is somebody's business if she is employeed and doing a job where they don't want you wearing jewelry such as necklaces. See Mr. Galt's post on Stanard Nursing practices.


Wear a minimum of jewelry--it can harbor micro-organisms and could injure a client.
Clients may act out--protect yourself by keepying your hair short or pinned up, and avoid large earings, neckties, and necklaces.


20 years ago girls played basketball with wearing earings. Now they typically don't let them wear tiny studs even if they are covered with a band-aid.

[Boogie man]

They said she could wear it if she tucked it in. It is somebody's business if she is employeed and doing a job where they don't want you wearing jewelry such as necklaces. See Mr. Galt's post on Stanard Nursing practices.


Wear a minimum of jewelry--it can harbor micro-organisms and could injure a client.
Clients may act out--protect yourself by keepying your hair short or pinned up, and avoid large earings, neckties, and necklaces.


20 years ago girls played basketball with wearing earings. Now they typically don't let them wear tiny studs even if they are covered with a band-aid.

30 years and no problems. She isn't playing basketball.

[Smurf-Herder]

http://books.google.com/books?id=tB1YiYj_kdkC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=nursing+guidelines+regarding+necklaces&source=bl&ots=xBOHEzcKNy&sig=NzHP3NIbWi6Tocja_NTvHdQilUQ&hl=en&ei=7me-S5S2OML88AbSteTWCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CBYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=nursing%20guidelines%20regarding%20necklaces&f=false


I can't c/p this page. Read the box on the right...specifically the issues of jewelry.


This is nursing 101.

But, of course everyone here knows better.

It's apparently Nursing 101, only after 30 years of not being Nursing 101.

[John Galt]

It's apparently Nursing 101, only after 30 years of not being Nursing 101.
Just because she's been wrong for 30 years, doesn't mean she shouldn't comply w/policy.

[Smurf-Herder]

Just because she's been wrong for 30 years, doesn't mean she shouldn't comply w/policy.

But it isn't just her. Nobody else cared before. Her superiors kept promoting her, without saying a word about her crucifix for 30 years.

[Boogie man]

Just because she's been wrong for 30 years, doesn't mean she shouldn't comply w/policy.

That's your opinion. Your opinion and someone else's opinion about a crucifix is just that, your opinion. She has not had a problem for 30 years and because a few people find a crucifix offensive they want it hidden. Can't you fuckers find something a little more serious to fight about?

[T-Cat]

30 years and no problems. She isn't playing basketball.She is an employee who has a job, it's even more restrictive than playing basketball.

Stuff like this happens, regulations change and different people enforce standards in different ways. Personally I think it is a little goofy, but I'm not her employer.

[Boogie man]

It would be like me buying a business and a long time employee has a tattoo that I find offensive. I can't fire him for having a tattoo, but I can tell him to cover it up or else. Are you on my side on that one?

[T-Cat]

It would be like me buying a business and a long time employee has a tattoo that I find offensive. I can't fire him for having a tattoo, but I can tell him to cover it up or else. Are you on my side on that one?Where is the tattoo?
Is it a safety issue?
Let me guess, does it say "Boogie man sucks"?

[John Galt]

It would be like me buying a business and a long time employee has a tattoo that I find offensive. I can't fire him for having a tattoo, but I can tell him to cover it up or else. Are you on my side on that one?
This has nothing to do with appearances, although you and she would love to try to make that case.

This is simple...it's a hazard. With that socialized medicine we hear so much about, we don't need her passing an infection to her patients because of her jewelry.

They might have to wait 6 months for antibiotics.



Policies change. For all we know, there was an incident where someone was injured.

I'm sure you know more about nursing than a nurse manager. This is basic nursing practice.


She was given the opportunity to tuck the thing inside her shirt. She seems to have a need to have her christianity prominently displayed.


She could always find another job. Clearly, her priorities will guide her in the right direction

[John Galt]

It would be like me buying a business and a long time employee has a tattoo that I find offensive. I can't fire him for having a tattoo, but I can tell him to cover it up or else. Are you on my side on that one?
Johnny Damon had to shave his beard, when he came to the Yankees....

He could've gone elsewhere, if he didn't want to change his appearance.

[Boogie man]

Johnny Damon had to shave his beard, when he came to the Yankees....

He could've gone elsewhere, if he didn't want to change his appearance.

Yes, and now he can grow it back because he's a Detroit Tiger.

[kres24GT]

Johnny Damon had to shave his beard, when he came to the Yankees....

He could've gone elsewhere, if he didn't want to change his appearance.


Bingo, bitch doesn't like it, get anotehr job.

Same for the workers int he WV mine, don't like working an unsafe job, get anotehr one.


Same for everyone. Don't like your job, don't like the rules, don't like the conditions, get anotehr fucking job.