Very Little Progress in Iraq

[Linkster]

The Wash Post was given a copy of the draft report that came out on Iraq - they went ahead and reviewed it as most people in the GAO and other departments think that it will be watered down and made more "pleasant to the eye" before releasing it to the public:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/29/AR2007082902434.html

In other news - Bush has asked for another extra 50 billion on top of what congress already gave him in the upcoming budget for his gameplaying in Iraq:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/28/AR2007082801984.html?tid=informbox
"The request -- which would come on top of about $460 billion in the fiscal 2008 defense budget and $147 billion in a pending supplemental bill to fund the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq" - so added up thats another $657 Billion in additional deficit for the coming year - which should push the entire deficit over the legal limit - which means we will probably see a request for a raising of the legal deficit limit anytime now - and usually accompanies a speech that promises a new "tax cut" - October is gearing up to be one for the history books

[Moby]

The administration is already to say that the laws enacted by congress made the report flawed and that great progress is being made. Of course, nothing was mentioned about the flaws 6 months ago.

About 30% of the country will believe him again.

[Jennifer]

We always knew that there wasn't a chance in hell the Iraqi government could meet the requirements. Honestly, the United States doesn't meet the requirements Congress wanted.

What's amazing is how much they DID accomplish all the while being under fire, having their kids stolen, having assassination attempts on their lives and trying to unite three factions in harmony instead of hegemony and tyranny.

[Bill]

Besides, what's the hurry?

[mwillman]

What ever happened to Bush not being a nation builder.

I just think that we need to spend more time making sure that american tax dollars are being spent on american needs and not for the profit of a small group of of bushes cronnies in a far off land that had nothing to do with 911.

[Linkster]

Jennifer - what have they accomplished? I havent seen one concrete piece of evidence that anything has happened other than one faction of Sunnis deciding that they didnt like another faction and started shooting them up - of course I see in the GAO report the US is taking credit for something they had no hand in - but then thats to be expected

I also dont see where anyone can come up with a timetable like Bush did and expect it to work in Iraq - he obviously didnt study his history - or heck he could've just watched the movie Lawrence of Arabia in his basement and figured out he wasnt going to get anywhere

The part I find funny is that now that the GAO is coming out with this report - all of a suddent the democrats in congress are being blamed for coming up with this timetable - which is definitely not true - this was Bush's timetable and expectations list from the start - but I guess we forget those things after a few months have passed

[Krome]

They have accomplished nothing unless there aims were to start a civil war, kill tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, make America the most hated country in the world and the target of every Muslim terrorist going.

When America gets hit with more terrorist attacks I seriously doubt any countries will properly support America. They may send in a few hundred troops to make out as though they care but those troops will actually only be their to ensure trade treaties with the US remain in place.

[Krome]

http://www.chris-floyd.com/march/13.jpg

[Krome]

I believe the 3 dead kids above were serious terrorists.

[Jennifer]

I believe the 3 dead kids above were serious terrorists.

No idea why the terrorists killed those kids. It's a shame though.


As for evidence, there's quite a bit of evidence of success in Iraq. Anwar province being one of the biggest. How about the two elections they've had? The Constitution they've written? The fact that they've steadily increased their police and military numbers every period despite the actions of the terrorists? How about the steady progress of repairs going on daily in Iraq? Repairs fixing up infrastructure left to rot for a decade and a half.


Until you go there, like I did, you have nothing pertinent to say about progress in Iraq. Anyone can listen to the bias of the media and believe the drum beat. Those of us who actually went, can see first hand what's going on. We can see the doctors stitching up the legs of children after terrorist bombs blow them up. We can see the children playing in the streets. We can see every home with a television in it. We can see families with one or two cars at almost every domicile. We can see more and more Iraqi's patrolling the streets and less and less Americans patrolling the streets. We can see the Iraqi's picking out foreign nationals out of a group of people that we wouldn't be able to tell because they KNOW the differences between an Iranian and an Iraqi, we don't. We're learning, but we don't know it like they do.

[disrupter]

So having an election to create an ineffective government makes up for,

not having electricty in 130 degree heat for AC or even a refrigerator,
or clean running water
or working sewers,
& facing daily fears of violence,

Jennifer?

you are a fool.

Move your fool arse to Baghdad,

it is what you deserve.

The US created Iraqi hell.

[Krome]

No idea why the terrorists killed those kids. It's a shame though.




They were actually killed by US bombs. Although I like your thinking. Allocate blame to Iraqi terrorists, the same who did 9-11, and everything is fine.

Are you from the South? Do you eat mayonaise sandwhiches and screw your brother?

[Jennifer]

So having an election to create an ineffective government makes up for,

not having electricty in 130 degree heat for AC or even a refrigerator,
or clean running water
or working sewers,
& facing daily fears of violence,

Jennifer?

you are a fool.

Move your fool arse to Baghdad,

it is what you deserve.

The US created Iraqi hell.


Been there, have you?

Every home has a working refrigerator. Like most of the middle east, however, most homes do not have air conditioners. Only an elitist American pig would claim that no air conditioner was the same as impoverished and destitute.

Do you have access to over 100 fruits and vegetables in your markets? No. But they do in Iraq! Do your children get regular exercise? No. But Iraqi children do. Are your history books up to date? Iraqi history books are, becuase they're NEW! Do you have access to unlimited medical resources at the cost of a foreign nation? no. But Iraqi's do!


Yea, they got it bad. They have food on the table, roofs over their head, medical treatment at their disposal, a government actually elected by the people from the pool of the citizenry, not from the pool of the elite, they don't have over burdening laws. Their biggest problem? Democrats giving terrorists recruiting sound bites to get their kids to turn on Americans and Iraqis.

[mwillman]

I'm sorry when was the last time you were in Iraq Jennifer?


You paint a rosie picture of a land that is lossing thousands of people to violent death every month.

[Krome]

Been there, have you?

Every home has a working refrigerator. Like most of the middle east, however, most homes do not have air conditioners. Only an elitist American pig would claim that no air conditioner was the same as impoverished and destitute.

Do you have access to over 100 fruits and vegetables in your markets? No. But they do in Iraq! Do your children get regular exercise? No. But Iraqi children do. Are your history books up to date? Iraqi history books are, becuase they're NEW! Do you have access to unlimited medical resources at the cost of a foreign nation? no. But Iraqi's do!


Yea, they got it bad. They have food on the table, roofs over their head, medical treatment at their disposal, a government actually elected by the people from the pool of the citizenry, not from the pool of the elite, they don't have over burdening laws. Their biggest problem? Democrats giving terrorists recruiting sound bites to get their kids to turn on Americans and Iraqis.


You do realise there is a civil war going on there and that the death rate is up so high it is in the stupid levels.

Look go back to Fox News and shield yourself from the truth. It is better that way for you.

Iraq is liberated and the mission is accomplished.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Every home has a working refrigerator.
But only a couple of hours of electricity per day to run it.

Hmmm... what good is a refrigerator if you don't have the
electricity to run it? How do you keep food from spoiling?

[Jennifer]

I'm sorry when was the last time you were in Iraq Jennifer?


You paint a rosie picture of a land that is lossing thousands of people to violent death every month.

April, 2006.

Still have friends there too.


And, for the record, over 40,000 Americans die in automobile accidents annually. That's over 3,000 a month. Should we do away with cars?

In other words, you want to take a statistic out of context and use that to fit your argument, I can do it too.


I don't have exact figures of the number of Iraqis that die to terrorists or have died to American forces because no one but the Pentagon and Iraq have those numbers and they aren't releasing them. However, I can tell you, from personal experience in the "hell hole" of a "war zone" with "insurgent" snipers shooting at me daily that the picture you have in your mind couldn't be farther from the truth if you were making stuff up.

[disrupter]

how well does a refrigerator work with maybe an hour or two of electricity in 130 degree heat?

How is turning Iraqi wounded away from military medical a great healthcare system?

If you think it is so great to vote in elections,
without clean water to drink
or sewers that work,

why don't you move there?

Your arguments are just stupid.

Now keep this in mind:
2/3rds of a MILLION Iraqis have already paid with their lives & uncounted wounded
3700 American service persons are dead with tens of thousands of wounded
this will cost something approaching 2 TRILLION dollars,

and STILL we see no overwhelming progress,
in fact some things are getting worse.

[mwillman]

Again jennifer you are arguing apples when Im talking oranges.

If you are trying to say that life in iraq is better now then before we invaded then why do all the iraqi polls say just the opposite?

Im sorry if you were used in a false war, I was in the army too but I was lucky enought to be in when we had a sane president.

[Linkster]

And, for the record, over 40,000 Americans die in automobile accidents annually. That's over 3,000 a month. Should we do away with cars?


Yes we should - but then that would be the smart thing to do since its obvious we cant teach monkeys to drive and pay attention to that driving - anyone that has ever had an accident ought to be prohibited from ever driving again - anyone that cant pass a rigid defensive driving test every year shouldnt be on the road - and anyone caught drinking, drugged, asleep,talking on a cell phone, using a dvd player - basically doing anything but driving ought to be in jail for 10 years for attempted murder

[Bill]

Do you eat mayonaise sandwhiches?

Hey, don't knock it, ain't nuthin wrong with a nice mayonaise and black pepper sandwich.

[disrupter]

Will you listen to Jennifer's argument?

The big mysterious pentagon has statistics it can't release.

I almost feel sorry for her.

the same crowd that is embedded with defense contractors, who are robbing us taxpayers for trillions & then burying it like catshit with 'black project' classification?

I realize life sometimes has you so tied up that you can't get your head out of the game long enough to get a little rational perspective.

Rationality takes at least little dis-impassioned distance.

[ewww, mayonaise sandwich? i suppose the pepper helps cut the grease, but that gets at least an '8' on the ewww-o-meter, lol]

[Jennifer]

The pentagon cannot release the numbers without violating the Geneva Conventions.

[disrupter]

and you are 'willing' to take it on faith?

Well i live here in the US & I DON'T take things that affect my life, world & nation on flimsy 'faith' as you do.

The military encourages deception, because it is all about creating an insular [dead?] realm of pseudo intellect. Rationales as opposed to rationality.
It is designed to be subordinate.
But we citizens have to make sure that subordination is to ours & the nation's needs, especially over the long term.

Left to themselves, militaries quickly decay into fiefdoms of competing corruption. Defense contractors just love that, but it is very harmful to the nation & the people not to carefully scrutinize what goes on there.

Do you like casting yourself in the role of the obedient child?

I wonder if some portion of the population is sort of programmed to intellectually cave to any authority edifice out there? From religion to military to goodness knows what. Aliens?

[Jennifer]

Again, it's not taking something on faith if you have seen it first hand.


I understand a lot of you have never seen an M-16, let alone been to Iraq. I know most of you have never met an Iraqi citizen in her own home town and talked with her kids, seen the fire of resolution in her eye when she is proud that her husband and his friends are banding together to oust the terrorists and war lords from their midst.

Rather, you would rather believe a baby faced reporter who is dealing with a contact that's been hired by his or her media firm and been on the payroll since the Iran-Iraq war and was hired by the Hussein administration as a media spokeman who takes these reporters into staged situations to convince them America is losing.

Yes, that's right. Staged. They get a group of "insurgents" together and set up an ambush, then walk the reporter by just as it is sprung. Then they claim this is just one of a massive series of attacks.

Meanwhile, the truth is they've been on the run, America and Iraq have caught these criminals comming and going, running in and out, caught them at the border, caught them in Iranian uniforms, caught them in Egyptian and Syrian cultural garb for years. We've killed or captured tens of thousands of Terrorists and "Insurgents" and lost barely 3000 soldiers. (4000 if you include injuries and fatalities not affiliated with hostile action.)