Is Secession Equivalent to Treason?

[Libertarian94]

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Here is Dr. Paul's take on the issue.

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Here is this guy take on it....



I tend to agree Dr. Paul idea that they came into the union independently therefore they can leave independently. The fed have definately over stepped over there original purpose in the last hundred years or so.

[mrmeangenes]

That gives rise to another question: How much would America be improved if those who wanted to secede were allowed to ?

Just think: The federal government could pull all assets, offices, and people out of the seceeded territory; strip all military bases of equipment (laying off all those employed there); close all post offices, and cut off all social security,etc. to the residents, etc. etc. etc.-oh yes: and close the borders.

Dr. Paul and his supporters would dance in joy - for about a week ; at the end of which time, the affected residents would have them dancing at the end of ropes.

[Dale escondido]

That gives rise to another question: How much would America be improved if those who wanted to secede were allowed to ?

Just think: The federal government could pull all assets, offices, and people out of the seceeded territory; strip all military bases of equipment (laying off all those employed there); close all post offices, and cut off all social security,etc. to the residents, etc. etc. etc.-oh yes: and close the borders.

Dr. Paul and his supporters would dance in joy - for about a week ; at the end of which time, the affected residents would have them dancing at the end of ropes.


Some would stay ,some would leave, its called freedom.
Certainly those dependent on the gov tit would be at a loss.
When america leaves americans solutions become extreme.

[Libertarian94]

That gives rise to another question: How much would America be improved if those who wanted to secede were allowed to ?

Just think: The federal government could pull all assets, offices, and people out of the seceeded territory; strip all military bases of equipment (laying off all those employed there); close all post offices, and cut off all social security,etc. to the residents, etc. etc. etc.-oh yes: and close the borders.

Dr. Paul and his supporters would dance in joy - for about a week ; at the end of which time, the affected residents would have them dancing at the end of ropes.


Assets?:lmao2: What offices? Federal ones? If so go for it they no longer recognize them if they secede? As for thr military they could get a militia going? Get rid of the post office? OH NO NOT THAT!!!:truce: The seceded territory could easily start a similar program or let the private market take care of it. I predict social security wont even be around by the time the next generation retires. Texans would be happy that they no longer would have to pay into that shit program. What do you mean when you say close the borders? Stop immigration into the US from seceded territories? Go for it:thumbsup: They wouldnt have seceded if they wanted to become US citizens. Under the conditions Texas would secede the fed would be to weak to fight it anyway.

[Libertarian94]

Some would stay ,some would leave, its called freedom.
Certainly those dependent on the gov tit would be at a loss.
When america leaves americans solutions become extreme.


Are you the same Dale Escondido as the one I saw on politirant?

[mrmeangenes]

Well, considering the fact most of those muttering about secession live in "pork-dependent" states (Porklahoma, Porkansas,Porkas,etc.) I doubt there would be much secession in real life.

FYI: When the candidate you favor loses in a free election, it is not a matter of America leaving Americans-and, if you are advocating "extreme" solutions,your definition of patriotism needs a bit of fine-tuning.

[Libertarian94]

Well, considering the fact most of those muttering about secession live in "pork-dependent" states (Porklahoma, Porkansas,Porkas,etc.) I doubt there would be much secession in real life.

FYI: When the candidate you favor loses in a free election, it is not a matter of America leaving Americans-and, if you are advocating "extreme" solutions,your definition of patriotism needs a bit of fine-tuning.

Specifically what pork details mean something. Did I ever say I was loyal to the fed or patriotic? I also never said I was adovocating for secession I am just saying the state governments have the right to. Right now the problems are not significant enough to consider that. I contend that secession should be a last resort when elections simply wont fix the problem.

[mrmeangenes]

Well, kiddies, I would suggest-in all courtesy- you review the following:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002384----000-.html

(Current as of 2009)

[Libertarian94]

Well, kiddies, I would suggest-in all courtesy- you review the following:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00002384----000-.html

(Current as of 2009)



We are not talking about persons we are talking about state governments there is a difference. Nice try though.:thumbsup:

[Pat]

Well, considering the fact most of those muttering about secession live in "pork-dependent" states (Porklahoma, Porkansas,Porkas,etc.) I doubt there would be much secession in real life.
Are you advocating that states should be "pork-dependent"?
How silly.
Scrabbling for scraps from the federal government table is part of what got the US into the debt (and associated mess) that it is in.

FYI: When the candidate you favor loses in a free election, it is not a matter of America leaving Americans-and, if you are advocating "extreme" solutions,your definition of patriotism needs a bit of fine-tuning.
I'm pretty sure that it was "patriots" that seceded from England way back in the 1700's. It's not about a candidate losing, it's about an overly oppressive government trying to exert controls over the population.

[mrmeangenes]

Oh? Are you now suggesting state governments are not run by people ??

http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/26/4073188-an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-marine-wants-you-to-stop-and-think

[Libertarian94]

Oh? Are you now suggesting state governments are not run by people ??

http://christopher-calbat.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/26/4073188-an-article-i-wish-i-would-never-have-to-write-to-those-calling-for-a-civil-war-this-marine-wants-you-to-stop-and-think


No, but they are acting as the state of Texas not as individuals.

[mrmeangenes]

Let me think: This was tried at least once before-in the 1860's as I recall.
There was a bit of a dustup, wasn't there ?
Lots of widows, and orphans,homeless, and maimed ?

Have fun with it !

[Libertarian94]

Let me think: This was tried at least once before-in the 1860's as I recall.
There was a bit of a dustup, wasn't there ?
Lots of widows, and orphans,homeless, and maimed ?

Have fun with it !

Yup it was tried a time before that as well and it was called the American revolution.:thumbsup:

[mwillman]

I would love to see Texas turned into a third world nation.
I would feel for all the good people stuck there but for the rest I
would care less.

Of course if you do leave the nation then we wouldn't be able to trade with you or let anyone else for that matter. You would be like Cuba with less help from the rest of the world.

We could build a giant fence around Texas and shot any of you that crossed the border.

[Libertarian94]

I would love to see Texas turned into a third world nation.
I would feel for all the good people stuck there but for the rest I
would care less.

Of course if you do leave the nation then we wouldn't be able to trade with you or let anyone else for that matter. You would be like Cuba with less help from the rest of the world.

We could build a giant fence around Texas and shot any of you that crossed the border.


:lmao2: Am I supposed to take that seriously? :lmao2:

[mwillman]

Of course not.

Should I take this succession talk seriously?

Of course not.

[mrmeangenes]

Porxas would never secede from the Union - not again, anyway.

They have seceded from reality in spots-but-that's their red wagon !

[Libertarian94]

Should I take this succession talk seriously?



Im sure thats what King George III thought.

[mwillman]

please save me the overly dramatic nonsense.
2%ers are just that 2%ers they dont have a big enough movement
to sucede from walmart.

[Libertarian94]

please save me the overly dramatic nonsense.
2%ers are just that 2%ers they dont have a big enough movement
to sucede from walmart.


:lmao2: If you read my posts and knew my stance you would not have to resort to ad hominem bullshit.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JAYy90RN7ZE/SrobuLM8NmI/AAAAAAAAARU/lSBEaFySisw/s1600/ad_hominem.gif;)

[mrmeangenes]

That was hardly "ad hominem" !

All kidding aside: IMHO , seceding from the Union would be treason - the moment the secessionists "took up arms against the United States" ; and those involved would fully deserve to face the consequences.

Texas might/might not have the right to withdraw from the Union, but would have to be stark,raving mad to do so. Isolated by choice from the protection of the Union, they would have to enter a mutual defense pact - or face being turned into a Mexican province....in which they would be unwelcome.

[Libertarian94]

That was hardly "ad hominem" !

All kidding aside: IMHO , seceding from the Union would be treason - the moment the secessionists "took up arms against the United States" ; and those involved would fully deserve to face the consequences.

Texas might/might not have the right to withdraw from the Union, but would have to be stark,raving mad to do so. Isolated by choice from the protection of the Union, they would have to enter a mutual defense pact - or face being turned into a Mexican province....in which they would be unwelcome.

He pretty much called me a drama queen and therefore my message was wrong. (Pretty much the definition of ad hominem.) I agree with the bolded but for different reasons. I believe they have the capabillity of being a successful nation but the problems arent bad enough yet to start a civil war/revolution. Ballot before bullets.

[mwillman]

I called the comparison to King George the III overly dramatic nonsense.
That is not the same as calling you a drama queen which is now starting to seem possible.

My point is simple there is no were near enough trouble in this nation for anything close to civil war or for a state to sucede.

[Libertarian94]

I called the comparison to King George the III overly dramatic nonsense.
That is not the same as calling you a drama queen which is now starting to seem possible.

My point is simple there is no were near enough trouble in this nation for anything close to civil war or for a state to sucede.


Im not in disagreement if you read the whole thread you would realize that.:rolleyes:

[Dale escondido]

Are you the same Dale Escondido as the one I saw on politirant?

Ocassionally there, but I've been gone a few months.
What happened there you know?

Americas youth are convinced we need to change to some sort of BETTER society.
They have no experience with the results of irresponsible leadership and bleeding heart policys.
So we do see alot of these innovative leaders who would sacrifice americas standing in the world to save the global society.
Since they are unable to raise other nations standards to our , they choose to lower ours to theirs.
Youth will age and join our rants shortly, only those with special interest in being CARED FOR permanently will not.
If any state sucedes I'll be the first one to go there.
I hope for a taste of america past and hope no fight will come of it.
I never believed the civil war never needed to be fought and think slavery would have died a less violent end if it was never fought.

[Libertarian94]

Ocassionally there, but I've been gone a few months.
What happened there you know?

Americas youth are convinced we need to change to some sort of BETTER society.
They have no experience with the results of irresponsible leadership and bleeding heart policys.
So we do see alot of these innovative leaders who would sacrifice americas standing in the world to save the global society.
Since they are unable to raise other nations standards to our , they choose to lower ours to theirs.
Youth will age and join our rants shortly, only those with special interest in being CARED FOR permanently will not.
If any state sucedes I'll be the first one to go there.
I hope for a taste of america past and hope no fight will come of it.
I never believed the civil war never needed to be fought and think slavery would have died a less violent end if it was never fought.


Not a clue as to why it closed I guess Im gonna make this my new home mostly because the lack of rules.

[Dale escondido]

Not a clue as to why it closed I guess Im gonna make this my new home mostly because the lack of rules.

This site goes in cycles.
Better than most, but it can get weird at time.
Attack Bush and threaten him ok.
Anyone else be careful.

[Smurf-Herder]

... mostly because the lack of rules.

Once you're here awhile, you'll understand about the "unwritten" rules.

:lmao2:

[Libertarian94]

Once you're here awhile, you'll understand about the "unwritten" rules.

:lmao2:


There are always unwritten rules. I just like saying words like "clusterfuck" without it being auto censored.

[Smurf-Herder]

There are always unwritten rules. I just like saying words like "clusterfuck" without it being auto censored.

I was on a board once where the moderators would move a post to a "general discussion" thread when it diverted the least bit from the topic, without warning. Leading people to have to sort through tons of diverse posts in a single 250 page thread to try and carry on a discussion.

SciFi Channel Discussion Board. They're complete arrogant fucking idiots.

[Hawkeye2j]

I was on a board once where the moderators would move a post to a "general discussion" thread when it diverted the least bit from the topic, without warning. Leading people to have to sort through tons of diverse posts in a single 250 page thread to try and carry on a discussion.

SciFi Channel Discussion Board. They're complete arrogant fucking idiots.
Juniperberr2 does the same thing.

[Boogie man]

Well, considering the fact most of those muttering about secession live in "pork-dependent" states (Porklahoma, Porkansas,Porkas,etc.) I doubt there would be much secession in real life.

FYI: When the candidate you favor loses in a free election, it is not a matter of America leaving Americans-and, if you are advocating "extreme" solutions,your definition of patriotism needs a bit of fine-tuning.

If Texas and Alaska seceede then you and your Feds are in a world of hurt. There would be blood.

[Libertarian94]

I was on a board once where the moderators would move a post to a "general discussion" thread when it diverted the least bit from the topic, without warning. Leading people to have to sort through tons of diverse posts in a single 250 page thread to try and carry on a discussion.

SciFi Channel Discussion Board. They're complete arrogant fucking idiots.

Its pretty fuckin retarded I think. I also like these smaller communities.

[Smurf-Herder]

Its pretty fuckin retarded I think. I also like these smaller communities.


We have a good balance here.

[mrmeangenes]

If Texas and Alaska seceede then you and your Feds are in a world of hurt. There would be blood.

If they take up arms against the US, there would definitely be a world of hurt !

[Libertarian94]

If they take up arms against the US, there would definitely be a world of hurt !

I have a feeling IF they do secede they probably would have the fed initiate the war.

[Boogie man]

If they take up arms against the US, there would definitely be a world of hurt !

As your president said....."Go for it.....bring it on". Your president is now the enemy of the American people. There will be blood.

[Libertarian94]

As your president said....."Go for it.....bring it on". Your president is now the enemy of the American people. There will be blood.:melodramatic:
:popcorn: ;)

[Dale escondido]

What a show, after secession the US army comes marching in shooting the states seniors.
After a house to house hunt for the geritol crowd hiding in closets the rebuilding of the states infrastructure can begin.
The banks will be looted and the women raped by the US army.
Thats what they do right?
But first Obummer will give a speech inspiring them to attack their radical nazi grandparents.
Give me a fucking break.

[Smurf-Herder]

Technically speaking, if a state has gone through all the legal processes of Secession (in their state system), then they're no longer part of the US government. And therefore, it can't be Treason to the US government.

[mwillman]

Hey if the south wants to try it again, them im all for another Sherman's march.
Stupid south.

[Hawkeye2j]

That gives rise to another question: How much would America be improved if those who wanted to secede were allowed to ?

Just think: The federal government could pull all assets, offices, and people out of the seceeded territory; strip all military bases of equipment (laying off all those employed there); close all post offices, and cut off all social security,etc. to the residents, etc. etc. etc.-oh yes: and close the borders.

Dr. Paul and his supporters would dance in joy - for about a week ; at the end of which time, the affected residents would have them dancing at the end of ropes.

I say call their bluff.

[foxbaron]

It's a pretty sad day in America when some States are even entertaining the thought of secession.

BUT, there is a reason as to why.

When you feel your government has abandoned you and the concepts (The Constitution) you had all agreed to, then you are left with few other choices, if you wish to remain a free society with individual rights.

Individual rights and a free society is not something foremost in the minds of our Country's leaders these days.

[mrmeangenes]

Hey if the south wants to try it again, them im all for another Sherman's march.
Stupid south.

This just in (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyak-E5gTAY


It appears the government is not going to wait for a surprise attack.

[mrmeangenes]

The group involved is The Hutaree : a group of "rather militant" Christians:

http://www.hutaree.com/

[Smurf-Herder]

This just in (video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyak-E5gTAY


It appears the government is not going to wait for a surprise attack.

I read a little on this earlier.

It appears that members of an extreme religious militia group made threats against Mulims. But so far the threats part are only allegations that I haven't seen substantiated. But these people had some pretty extreme videos on their site - http://hutaree.com/

[Boogie man]

Hey if the south wants to try it again, them im all for another Sherman's march.
Stupid south.

We will have Alaska. You're surrounded. Surrender or die.

[Hawkeye2j]

We will have Alaska. You're surrounded. Surrender or else.
Alaska is not the South. They wouldn't go anywhere

[Boogie man]

Alaska is not the South. They wouldn't go anywhere

A lot more than the south would seceede. Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho. Maybe Colorado and Arizona.

[Boogie man]

Alaska is not the South. They wouldn't go anywhere

A lot more than the south would seceede. Montana, Wyoming, Utah, Idaho. Maybe Colorado and Arizona. Alaska for sure.

[Moby]

It is not Treason. It's not patriotic but it's not treason.