Another Clinton Scandal Brewing? This should be fun.

[Stormy]

Big Source of Clinton's Cash Is an Unlikely Address
Family's Donations Closely Track Those Of Top Fund-Raiser

By BRODY MULLINS
August 28, 2007; Page A3

DALY CITY, Calif. -- One of the biggest sources of political donations to Hillary Rodham Clinton is a tiny, lime-green bungalow that lies under the flight path from San Francisco International Airport.

Six members of the Paw family, each listing the house at 41 Shelbourne Ave. as their residence, have donated a combined $45,000 to the Democratic senator from New York since 2005, for her presidential campaign, her Senate re-election last year and her political action committee. In all, the six Paws have donated a total of $200,000 to Democratic candidates since 2005, election records show.

For the rest of the article
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

[Bill]

Good, attack Hillary. Knock her out.

[Stormy]

Good, attack Hillary. Knock her out.
Who are you liking in this election?

[Bill]

I don't especially like anybody - really, all that matters is the dem/repub split.

If I had my druthers, I'd suppose it would be Richardson, with Edwards coming in second.

[Stormy]

I don't especially like anybody - really, all that matters is the dem/repub split.

If I had my druthers, I'd suppose it would be Richardson, with Edwards coming in second.
I don't like any of them on either side. I say we toss them all out and start over.

[Bill]

I don't like any of them on either side. I say we toss them all out and start over.

I'd support that, if it could be acheived.

I doubt the corporatists will allow it.

[Stormy]

I'd support that, if it could be acheived.

I doubt the corporatists will allow it.They would certainly fight it. That would be one major grassroots movement.

[Moby]

Anyone that hates their family so much that they want to spend most of their time away from them is not fit to hold political office. That goes for all Senators, State Reps and of course people that want to become President.

My favorite are those that try to run on the "Family Values" ticket or the religious ticket. "I believe in the bible but not the part about working on the sabbath, love thy neighbor as thy brother and those silly commandments that complain about lies".

[Moby]

Big Source of Clinton's Cash Is an Unlikely Address
Family's Donations Closely Track Those Of Top Fund-Raiser

Not that it's a big deal but it will be the top issue on Fox News for the next 8 months.

[Jennifer]

I have two reasons not to like Hillary:

A) Socialized healthcare. Thanks, I like my doctor, I like the treatment I get, and I like my insurance. Keep your communist pinko programs off me and my kids!

B) She already had 8 years as President while her adulterous husband was busy terrorizing the women of DC for 8 years.


My only issue with Obama, on the other hand, is that he has yet to complete his first senatorial duty. But that's almost trivial, if he convinces me his ideas are better then the others.

But hey, we do have the best government money can buy! Bill Clinton proved that in the 1990's with his Chinese financial connections, Al Gore tried a repeat, and now Hillary is going for it!

Thought we had laws in the Constitution about not being able to take foreign money or titles as an elected officer of the US Government. Hmm, maybe that's only in my unabridged version, you know, the version our Senators and Congressmen DON'T read and have NEVER read! (It's the one that includes the second amendment, for those of you wondering which version I am talking about.)

[Linkster]

None of them are worth a grain of salt - they all violate the constitution on a daily basis including the sitting congress and the president

As far as health insurance - we just need to completely get rid of it - and get rid of the ability to sue for mistakes - and we can go back to healthcare that actually works for a tenth of the price - of course then if we knock these companies out of business selling sanitizers for everything then humans can go back to developing resistance to diseases and the drug companies that own the cleaning product companies wont need to sell as many prescriptions :)

[Jennifer]

I'd agree that liability insurance and malpractice insurance should be removed from the public domain and extinguished. They are too readily abused by malcontents trumping up charges or flat out lieing about injuries and for being used when honest mistakes happen.

Health Insurance is currently WORKING! Most people without health insurance in America CHOOSE not to have health insurance. It's called gambling with a high pay off or a high debt after the gamble. It's also called CAPITALISM and FREE MARKET. Terms our liberal counter parts either do not understand or do not agree with.

Remember, when you push for the government to run everything, you are a communist. We won the Cold War, why would we change to be more like Communists when it's the communists of the world trying to be more successful like US!!!!

[Moby]

Remember, when you push for the government to run everything, you are a communist.
Wow, you really don't understand communism.

Besides, can you name one person that it pushing for the government to run everything? Some might say that a political party that created more laws then any other other history might be considered communists. :)

Outside of gasoline, some property in sunny climates and health insurance, name 3 things have doubled in price (for no good reason) since Dubya took office.

While I don't believe in Clinton's original health care plan I think there needs to be a medium since medical costs are sky rocketing so fast. The system is broken and often people are faced with tough issues.

Currently 12% of Americans are living in poverty. When you have $1,700 a month, then taxes come out, then you buy food, pay double what you did for gas, pay for the mortgage, utilities and support 2 children that doesn't leave much for a $400 a month High Deductible Insurance plan.


Remember when religious people wanted to help those in need?

[Linkster]

Jennifer - the reason I mentioned getting rid of health insurance is based on the fact that the only reason it exists is because we allowed lawyers to start suing doctors 40 years ago - prior to that no one in the US needed insurance and for that matter it didnt exist, we all got along just fine without it and we actually had a great health care system that worked - without any of the paperwork or stupidity attached to talking to your personal doctor.

Without insurance you wouldnt have a need for medicare, medicaid, or second mortgages to pay off a simple surgery (and believe me I can attest to this one exactly 1 year ago - when it cost me over $90,000 for one nights stay and a simple outpatient procedure the next morning)

And just think - then whoever is president could play the "tax-cut" game seriously :)

[Jennifer]

SirMoby,

Do you understand what communism is? Obviously not, or you are chosing to use the textbook definition, not the actual definition.

For instance, the Chinese are "communists" but in reality, they are socialists. Same with the Cubans and all other "communist" societies out there on a macro level.

Thus, my original point is valid, since the definitions of communism and socialism have become so hopelessly confused to you silly Americans, of which I am now one, but only because I believe in capitalism, representative government and the unrestrained use of market forces to allow for the best products and services at the best prices to win out.


The best government is one you never see, hear about or have to deal with. The worst government is exactly what the Democrat Party has been trying to institute since FDR. Namely, one that interjects itself into all avenues of your life in a "communist" (socialist) form. For instance, SOCIALIST security, SOCIALIST welfare, SOCIALIST schools, SOCIALIST health care, etc.

[Linkster]

Jennifer - dont you think that communism was redefined to mean socialism when the Manifesto was written - basically the way I seem to remember from my studies was that Marx and others took some of the basic principles of communism, but then turned them into a socialist operational plan. I dont really believe there has ever been a sovereign country that has existed in pure communism - there have been small communities back in the mid 1800s in the US that were set up that way - but they also inbedded religion in the practice which basically nullified their pure communistic practice?

[Moby]

The best government is one you never see, hear about or have to deal with.
So we should not have public schools, highways and laws? You sound like a libertarian and not a neo-con.

Please answer the questions "Besides, can you name one person that it pushing for the government to run everything?"

I have a little first hand experience with communist issues. Trust me on that :)

Over regulating business to make it difficult for small business is just as bad as making it hard for large business to turn profits. There is a balance. We need some government but not as much as Dubya/Cheney want and not as much as Hillary wants.

[Jennifer]

Who ever said I was a "neo-con" and thanks for resorting to labelling, btw.


I am a Constitutionalist. I believe the Federal Government only has those powers explicitly given to it by the fore-fathers and by the people in the Constitution of the United States of America and has no power, right or privilege in any other avenue it might attempt to transgress.

Hope that clears it up for you. :)


As for state governments, completely different matter. They are bound by the State Constitutions and the State Charters, not the US Constitution.


Anyway, back to the topic on hand.


Communism, as derived by Karl Marx, was based on the system of government of Czarist Russia. What??? That's right, the monarchy of Russia. How can that be? That's actually quite easy, but it may take me a few lines to explain it to you.


In medieval and industrial age Russia there was a monarchy, however, the monarchs could not even speak to their own people. The royalty spoke French, the people spoke Russian.

So how did the towns function?

Town elders met in the community and divided the town's resources based on ability and need. Those families with many children of working age were given much land to toil. Those families with either younger children, disabled members or members too old to be very effective at labor were given the resources needed to survive and only the amount of land they thought was manageable for them.

These communities were called Communes. (Which is the the root word of Community and Communism.) In this case, it was true communism and this is what Karl Marx wanted to expand upon on a national scale.

However, when Lenin and the Bolsheviks came to power, they claimed they would only maintain a socialist style government until they could let the people take over. Now, as we all know, absolute power corrupts absolutely and Stalin (then leader of Russia) refused to give up the power to the people and turned the Communists into Socialists.

Unfortunately, the world continued to call them Communists and this is why many people have a very difficult time distinguishing between Communism and Socialism. Socialism, of course, being the much WORSE form of government then Communism.

In all actuality, I could see Communism meshing quite well with capitalism as there would be very little government intervention into private affairs and the local communities would have utmost and imperial say over the laws of their area.

But, with that said, anyone who supports the Democrat Party is, by extension, a socialist in the same mold as Stalin, Lenin, Krustchev, the Chinese Government, the old USSR and the Cuban and Venezuelan Governments. The only difference between the two is the degree of which they are socialist.

[Linkster]

I knew about the monarchy, however I always thought that Marx and his buddies had set it up as a proletarian and bourgeoisie relationship which basically was a socialist form of government - one that really couldnt work on all levels since it required some form of either a dictatorship or supreme power in charge. The 10 primary objects included at least 5 statements that required government ownership or control including communication facilities, banks and many other "departments". I would definitely disagree with democrats these days being socialist - most that I hear talk, talk just like their republican buddies in a very capitalistic sense with little regard for the citizens - which in a socialist society would be the primary benefactors of policy instead of the leaders.
30 years ago you could have probably made the claim that democrats were very socialistic, although most of what happened behind the scenes and has been revealed since, proves otherwise

[mwillman]

Neither the USSR or china has ever been communist or socialist. They are or were one party totalitarian regimes.

If you want to see socialist look at Sweden or Finland.

To ask for a regulated free market is not asking for socialism or communism it is only asking that laws be enacted that protect the american people from corrupt individuals and companies that would try to make a profit on the suffering of others. People like Ken Lay or events like the savings and loan collapse or for instance the morgage company issues that are arising now.

[Jennifer]

The way I see it, democrats are trying to baby step into what the bolsheviks did over night.

Republicans are too, but with much smaller baby steps.


Anyway, the ORIGINAL communism was true communism. It was a monarchy to deal with foreign governments and communes running local government.

Lenninist/Stalinist and Maoist communism is what people think of when you use the term communism. That is socialism. They had social security. Social welfare. Social health care. Social employment offices. Social markets and banks. How many of those have you seen democrats call for since 1930's?

[mwillman]

Jennifer please study some history and political science before you make theses kinds of statements.

You can call a dog a cat all day it doesn't make it a cat.

The system was made up of one party, the communist party, and everyone else and only party members were able to live well except for a few lucky indviduals that had something the party wanted. They also defined the lives of everyone else which was basically half a step up from the feudal system they overturned.

Its called a centralized one party totalitarian system and has almost nothing to do with the original theories of communism which were themselves just utopian pipe dreams.

Again I say if you want to see socialism study Sweden, Norway, and Finland.

This nation has a regulated freemarket and republican govenment which technically speaking is not a democracy.

[Jennifer]

I won't claim to be an expert on American government, but I know more then most I think. At least, I've got a minor in Political Science and I lived in Communist Russia.


You can say no til you turn blue in the face, but you cannot change the facts and the truth of history will have this insidious and horrible pattern of always coming to light eventually.

[mwillman]

The truth is what the victor decides.
Rarely does the real truth ever see the light of day.

Historians, scientist and many others spend thier lives looking for a fragment of truth in a world of fog.

[Jennifer]

So where did Mr. Chu (Shoe) go? He jumped bail! Hmm, maybe we need to dig further and see how long Mr. Chu and Mrs/Mr Clinton have known each other??? Could he have been one of the men who siphoned money from the Chinese Government into the first President Clinton's "war chest" (Campaign Funds?)


And why is it the Liberals bleat like stuck pigs about needing campaign finance reform, and then disregard the laws themselves??? Where's your hatred of hypocracy when it comes to actually breaking the law? Oh sure, a republican is outed from the closet against his will and you cry hypocracy (which it is not hypocracy, it's called doing the job they were elected for and keeping their sex lives as private as possible) but when your boys and girls are caught in the act of comitting felonies, you're as quiet as a lamb hiding from a fox!

[Linkster]

umm - didnt Clinton and one other democrat send all the money back when they found out who this guy was
And I believe it happens in both parties - there is now a Rep fundraiser being searched for as well

More importantly - the lobbyist fundraisers are the ones that you really need to worry about - they are well on their way to raising over $1 Bill for the elections - which is a travesty of democracy - since all they are doing is buying position