New Abortion Thread

[Linkster]

Figured since one of the threads started getting into this discussion it was worth a separate thread - and of course what should happen but some idiot in Ohio now wants to legislate the issue:
http://feministing.com/archives/007480.html
Ohio bill: Women need men's permission to have abortions

[Tommy]

its so silly, even if it went thru its almost impossable to inforce

a lady could just say anything
I dont know who the father is, I had sex with 10 different men that week etc etc

[kres24GT]

If it's even an issue that the father would not be consulted, the baby is better off aborted.

[Linkster]

Tommy - thats part of the issue - the bill requires her to list the 10 men she had sex with and then the doctors are required to do a paternity test to determine the donating father - then get his permission

kres - the fact that you really believe that gives me hope that if there are more like you soon we will be back in the glorious Victorian age

[kres24GT]

Tommy - thats part of the issue - the bill requires her to list the 10 men she had sex with and then the doctors are required to do a paternity test to determine the donating father - then get his permission

kres - the fact that you really believe that gives me hope that if there are more like you soon we will be back in the glorious Victorian age


I don't necessarily agree with all the laws/rulings on abortion, but anytime some kids that my tax dollars are more than likely going to support for most of, if not all of, his life is aborted I can't be too upset.

Personally if the taxpayers are going to support all these bastards, they should be able to force these women to a have abortions.

[Southern Man]

Figured since one of the threads started getting into this discussion it was worth a separate thread - and of course what should happen but some idiot in Ohio now wants to legislate the issue:
http://feministing.com/archives/007480.html
Ohio bill: Women need men's permission to have abortions

This sounds like a reasonable law. The child is as much hers as his.

[Bill]

Ahhhh, sweet Ohio. The state where men are men and the sheep are nervous.

[Bill]

I saw cotton/and I saw black/Tall white mansions/and little shacks.
Southern man/when will you/pay them back?
I heard screamin'/and bullwhips cracking/How long? How long?

Why Southern, I'm impressed, I hadn't thought of you as having a sense of humor.

[Southern Man]

I saw cotton/and I saw black/Tall white mansions/and little shacks.
Southern man/when will you/pay them back?
I heard screamin'/and bullwhips cracking/How long? How long?

Why Southern, I'm impressed, I hadn't thought of you as having a sense of humor.

Libs always assume that conservatives lack humor. And brains, good looks, and compassion.

The sig is my tribute to another liberal, Neil Young, who never lived or spent time in The South (except a year in Florida as a young'in recovering from Candian health care) and naturally believed all the shit northeners and californians told him, that we're all whipping black folk around down here.

[Moby]

Libs always assume that conservatives lack humor. And brains, good looks, and compassion.

The sig is my tribute to another liberal, Neil Young, who never lived or spent time in The South (except a year in Florida as a young'in recovering from Candian health care) and naturally believed all the shit northeners and californians told him, that we're all whipping black folk around down here.
OK, now I think you've given it away. No one can be this ignorant. You're a troll. There's no way that you're a real human.

[Politicz]

Figured since one of the threads started getting into this discussion it was worth a separate thread - and of course what should happen but some idiot in Ohio now wants to legislate the issue:
http://feministing.com/archives/007480.html
Ohio bill: Women need men's permission to have abortions

Roe v. Wade is still law, and this bill would probably get shot down because of Roe v.Wade if anyone contested it. However, this bill is an invasion of privacy. I only agree that a woman should not get an abortion if she is married without discussing it with her husband first-but, still this shouldn't be legislated either, because it is a private matter between husband and wife. And, if a single woman wants an abortion, she should be able to have one without having to be humiliated by having to list all the men she's f*cked in order to prove who the father was, and then get his consent to get an abortion. Hell, as men, we don't have to get permission to wear a f*cking rubber before we go and have sex with women, and the way I see it, is when you plant your seed in a woman, it's like you gave it to her-so it's hers. And, if a woman is pregnant and single, and doesn't want to have to get permission from the man who got her pregnant before she can get an abortion or not, then I think if the single woman decides to have the baby, that the man who got her pregnant shouldn't have to pay child support-especially if he didn't want the baby. However, a married woman should discuss this issue with her husband, and both make a sound decision together on the matter. :D

[Bill]

Libs always assume that conservatives lack humor.

Ahhh, yes, but it's a dark sense of humor, what with the bullwhips cracking, the screaming, the blood streaming, the white of exposed spine, the endless years of torture, that little hint of overseer rapine, and the mocking of reparations and responsibility.

But, humor nonetheless. A step in the right direction.

[Southern Man]

OK, now I think you've given it away. No one can be this ignorant. You're a troll. There's no way that you're a real human. Oh I'm a real human all right. One that you can't deal with on an intellectual level, so have to resort to baiting, deflection, and demonization.

[Southern Man]

Ahhh, yes, but it's a dark sense of humor, what with the bullwhips cracking, the screaming, the blood streaming, the white of exposed spine, the endless years of torture, that little hint of overseer rapine, and the mocking of reparations and responsibility.

But, humor nonetheless. A step in the right direction. Actually it was the liberal Neil Young who brought up the images of whipping and shit. My humor is pointing out that a liberal, supposedly unassuming and non-judgmental, makes demonizing judgemental assumptions about several million people in a region of the country that he has never bothered to become familiar with. :D

[Linkster]

Hmmm - I live in that area - and there is still plenty of that picture around here - and I dont think it will ever change - although recently we did change the law to allow the celebration of the independence of the US on July 4th - something that has been prohibited by law here since the 1860s as this was the day that US Grant overran my area and the city fell to the North - so it has been a day of mourning ever since :thumbsup:

[Southern Man]

Hmmm - I live in that area - and there is still plenty of that picture around here - and I dont think it will ever change - although recently we did change the law to allow the celebration of the independence of the US on July 4th - something that has been prohibited by law here since the 1860s as this was the day that US Grant overran my area and the city fell to the North - so it has been a day of mourning ever since :thumbsup: What a crock of bull. I grew up near Boston and the racial divide up there is far and away much worse than here. But maybe you could provide some links to show whippings and shit to prove otherwise. Good luck with that.

[Moby]

What a crock of bull. I grew up
Growing up usually means that you're willing to admit when you're wrong and have some desire to educate yourself on issues of which you speak :)

[Linkster]

You must live in a big city in the south - you need to come out to the rural backwoods of Mississippi and Ill show you the KKK and the separation that still exists - you can believe what you want though - Im sure once you experience some time living away from a big city you might get a different attitude

[Southern Man]

Growing up usually means that you're willing to admit when you're wrong and have some desire to educate yourself on issues of which you speak :) Apparently when you lack a toughtful response you feel the need to doctor my words. Bad form.

[Southern Man]

You must live in a big city in the south - you need to come out to the rural backwoods of Mississippi and Ill show you the KKK and the separation that still exists - you can believe what you want though - Im sure once you experience some time living away from a big city you might get a different attitude

Since the KKK was the terrorists wing of the Southern Democrat Party, I'll let you take Senator Byrd to the turkey shoots, dog fights and lynchin's.

I was referring to the urban area that I grew up in (liberal blue Boston, Massachusetts) with the urban area that I live now (moderate red Winston-Salem, NC). Boston was (still is) much more racial, by my guess a factor of ten.

With regards to your rural Mississippi, you haven't seen rednecks unless you've been in Northern NY, above the Adirondaks.

[Linkster]

With regards to your rural Mississippi, you haven't seen rednecks unless you've been in Northern NY, above the Adirondaks.

I have - and they dont even come close to whats down here - lived in Saratoga for a few years and they dont hold a candle to the rednecks in these parts

[Southern Man]

I have - and they dont even come close to whats down here - lived in Saratoga for a few years and they dont hold a candle to the rednecks in these parts Saratoga is country club, jacket-and tie territory. Don't they have a horse track there? I bet they play friggin' polo. That's nowhere close to to the area of NYS that I mentioned. I'm talking Malone, Franklin County. Then there's Chenago County SE of Onondaga, with only 3 or 4 houses that don't have axles.

[Bill]

images of whipping and shit.

That's such a tender story - the true antebellum south - happy darkies lining up with bright smiling faces to board the ships to their fullfilling new lives in america. Their joy as they pick a bale of cotton - their satisfaction at offering their women to be impregnated by superior white seed - the pleasure of their passles of mulatto children learning the cotton-pickin trade at their side.

And the comforting caresses and loving disciplines of the wise white bosses, to put them to sleep in their cosy new homes, leaving them eager to start another joyous day of cotton-pickin.

You should write a childrens book - you have a real talent for painting rosy pictures.

[Southern Man]

That's such a tender story - the true antebellum south - happy darkies lining up with bright smiling faces to board the ships to their fullfilling new lives in america. Their joy as they pick a bale of cotton - their satisfaction at offering their women to be impregnated by superior white seed - the pleasure of their passles of mulatto children learning the cotton-pickin trade at their side.

And the comforting caresses and loving disciplines of the wise white bosses, to put them to sleep in their cosy new homes, leaving them eager to start another joyous day of cotton-pickin.

You should write a childrens book - you have a real talent for painting rosy pictures.
You should write the book as that image is yours. My people fought for the union side, remember?

[Linkster]

Oh I'm a real human all right. One that you can't deal with on an intellectual level, so have to resort to baiting, deflection, and demonization.

Seems that you have done the same to get off the course of this discussion about ABORTION and womens rights - which has nothing whatsoever to do with who has the best rednecks or which county or parish holds the best weekend whipping festivals

The topic is whether men should have any say in whether a womans body is her own or do you feel that you as the man "own" a little piece of it? Of course I can see where the talk about repression of a race comes from since its exactly the same thing that men now want to do with their "little women at home"

[Bill]

My people fought for the union side, remember?

Do tell... I ain't heard the story.

[disrupter]

God &/or biology gave the power of choice to individual women.

Now if we can stop the Christian NAZIs from fabricating laws to unwantedly invade a woman's uterus, we can stop their political rape of women's bodies.

Aren't you having enough fun mass murdering Iraqi children & pregnant Iraqi women?

Ah, the richness of the hypocrisy.

Right wing is a bunch of closet sadists who want to hide their sick vicious actions behind the flag & falsely slap a patriotism label on it.

Violently inflicting their agenda on innocent women,
Violently inflicting torture & mass murder & pretending it is patriotism.
And claiming they need to rob your civil rights because of THEIR actions or lack thereof on 911.

where do these disgusting liars & frauds get off?

only when you kick or bump them off.

[Kismet]

No wonder the country is in the state its in. The with sopposed state are arguing and being off topic and discussing treatment of african americans and the cruelty during the times our country had slaves during a thread on abortion. My oh my, it all makes sense.

I think that saying no abortion unless she knows who the father is , is unfair. If she was drunk chances are she doesn't know so that means she has to have a child when she may very well be an alcoholic and the fact that she was drunk and had sex and doesn't know who the guy was , her lifestyle is probaly not appropiate for raising a child. Also if the father is very pro life or older than her and the girl is under eighteen and she can't get the fathers permission , is it really fair to make a 14 yr old or a 15 yr old carry to term a child possibly with out he support of her family just because the father won't give permission for abortion?

[Bill]

discussing treatment of african americans and the cruelty during the times our country had slaves during a thread on abortion. My oh my, it all makes sense.

Ahhh, yes, but that was completely a side track, don't let it interfere with the primary topic of the thread.

Not all conversations need be one-pointed, we were just kidding around a bit.

[Kismet]

No I know, just sometimes like it wasnt as much this particular thread, the original thread gets lost in so many off track discussions.

[Kismet]

Everyone keeps saying exculding rape situations, but what are oppinions on if a girl gets rape? Abortion yes, or no or what?

[Moby]

Everyone keeps saying exculding rape situations, but what are oppinions on if a girl gets rape? Abortion yes, or no or what?
I think a woman should have some time to get an abortion no matter what. If she was raped 8.5 months ago then I think it's life and she doesn't have a choice.

[Southern Man]

Seems that you have done the same to get off the course of this discussion about ABORTION and womens rights - which has nothing whatsoever to do with who has the best rednecks or which county or parish holds the best weekend whipping festivals

The topic is whether men should have any say in whether a womans body is her own or do you feel that you as the man "own" a little piece of it? Of course I can see where the talk about repression of a race comes from since its exactly the same thing that men now want to do with their "little women at home"

If you can't handle a conversation that strays from the main topic once in a while don’t get on me, pal.

Does your theoretical woman “own” the baby inside of her? Isn’t what you are accusing the man doing to the woman exactly what the woman is doing to the baby?

[Southern Man]

Do tell... I ain't heard the story. Its a long one. But in summation: Southern Democrats held slaves, Northern Republicans didn't, and wanted a free market economy. They got together for a higher cause in 1776 and 1783 but the differences festered for years until the Democrats walked out on their original agreement. The Republicans made them come back after a Civil War. The Republicans than passed their first Civil Rights Act in 1868, followed by the Acts of 1875, 1957, 1960, 1964, and 1968. All were opposed by majorities of the Democrat party. The Democrats even went so far as to create a terrorist organization known as the KKK to oppose Republican policies. The Democrats then figured out they could keep the black man a virtual slave by offering him welfare and other targeted benefits, destroying them at the personal and family levels, all under then guise of caring. This new tactic has been wildly successful, and is demonstrated most aptly By Robert E. Byrd, once a lowly Klansman, now “the conscience of the Senate”.

[Southern Man]

I think a woman should have some time to get an abortion no matter what. If she was raped 8.5 months ago then I think it's life and she doesn't have a choice.
I would agree to the first trimester, as the original Roe V. Wade ruling stated, since it would save millions of lives while we fight over the the remainder.

[Bill]

But in summation: Southern Democrats held slaves, Northern Republicans didn't, and wanted a free market economy.

That's a sweet story. How ironic.

[Linkster]

If you can't handle a conversation that strays from the main topic once in a while don’t get on me, pal.

Does your theoretical woman “own” the baby inside of her? Isn’t what you are accusing the man doing to the woman exactly what the woman is doing to the baby?

Not getting on ya - just trying to direct the conversation back - and yes the woman owns every part of her body until she actually gives birth - then it is separated physically - so ya'll can have all the philosophical discussions till youre blue in the face about when a baby becomes a "being" but I think (my opinion) that a human being doesnt exist until it is separated from its mother - therefore abortion can and should happen at any time the woman damn well pleases

As far as your little "history" lesson on slavery politics - you might wanna go back to school (and yes here I am getting on you because its a totally false account of civil rights history, kkk history, and for that matter what the civil war was all about - unfortunately you must have gone to a public school where they tought you that Lincoln wanted to free the slaves and that was what caused the civil war - which really wasnt what happened - but makes for good school entertainment)

[Southern Man]

That's a sweet story. How ironic. Maybe you can explain where the irony is as I'm not one to assume things, like you libs have a habbit of doing.

[Southern Man]

Not getting on ya - just trying to direct the conversation back - and yes the woman owns every part of her body until she actually gives birth - then it is separated physically - so ya'll can have all the philosophical discussions till youre blue in the face about when a baby becomes a "being" but I think (my opinion) that a human being doesnt exist until it is separated from its mother - therefore abortion can and should happen at any time the woman damn well pleases

As far as your little "history" lesson on slavery politics - you might wanna go back to school (and yes here I am getting on you because its a totally false account of civil rights history, kkk history, and for that matter what the civil war was all about - unfortunately you must have gone to a public school where they tought you that Lincoln wanted to free the slaves and that was what caused the civil war - which really wasnt what happened - but makes for good school entertainment)

1. Interesting that you think a woman owns the baby one minute but not the next, right after birth. doesn't seem logical, but then again that's your opinion, so....
2. The Civil War was fought mainly due to free market economics. Maybe you can be more specific what part of my history summary is wrong. Take the civil rights acts, for one.

[Bill]

Maybe you can explain where the irony is as I'm not one to assume things, like you libs have a habbit of doing.

Well, I'm not sure the story is true, I'd have to research it for myself.

But, the irony would be that the south started out democratic and wanted to keep their slaves, while the republicans wanted to free them.

Now the dems represent the lower classes, and the republicans represent the new "plantation owners", the elites, and republican policy is now to pass laws against the dark-skinned.

And the dems dominate the north, while the republicans dominate the south.

Isn't that ironic.

[Linkster]

1. Interesting that you think a woman owns the baby one minute but not the next, right after birth. doesn't seem logical, but then again that's your opinion, so....
2. The Civil War was fought mainly due to free market economics. Maybe you can be more specific what part of my history summary is wrong. Take the civil rights acts, for one.

1. Its really a little more than "owning" - it is still a part of her body until it is separated - therefore it would be the same thing as trying to regulate whether she can have her gallstones removed - I guess my opinion is that a life doesnt exist until it is a separate life on its own - so anytime before tha moment when the cord is cut - that being is not a human and therefore man cannot legislate anything about it unless they take on the role of owning a piece of anyones body.

2. To be real generic - you might want to start by looking into what LBJ did with the civil rights act - since without him it would never been made law - and he took a lot of heat from opposing republicans (as well as dems) when he forced the issue - the rest Ill just let you look over some good history books and newspapers dating back to the times before the civil war - since slavery was not made an issue til after the war had started and Lincoln needed a selling point that would play well to raising troops in the North (they still obeyed the Constitution back then and did not have a standing army other than the little forces out of the war colleges to do planning and some regulars for Indian control/manning of outposts)

[Moby]

And the dems dominate the north, while the republicans dominate the south.

Isn't that ironic.
That's one reason why I'm frustrated by people that always vote party lines. A decade ago you couldn't find a republican that wanted to increase the size of government, the number of business regulations or laws of our personal life. Then in 2000 they all voted for exactly that and didn't even fucking know it.

Most still don't have a clue what they voted for. In the south most republican voters think dems spend like crazy while their own party spends responsibly.

Why can't people face the facts?

[Southern Man]

Well, I'm not sure the story is true, I'd have to research it for myself.

But, the irony would be that the south started out democratic and wanted to keep their slaves, while the republicans wanted to free them.

Now the dems represent the lower classes, and the republicans represent the new "plantation owners", the elites, and republican policy is now to pass laws against the dark-skinned.

And the dems dominate the north, while the republicans dominate the south.

Isn't that ironic.
I think that you have it only about half right. Perhaps you could show me what GOP policies are against those who are dark skinned.

But the point I am making is that Democrat policies have remained the same: the acquisition of financial and political power through subjugation of the black man.

[Southern Man]

1. Its really a little more than "owning" - it is still a part of her body until it is separated - therefore it would be the same thing as trying to regulate whether she can have her gallstones removed - I guess my opinion is that a life doesnt exist until it is a separate life on its own - so anytime before tha moment when the cord is cut - that being is not a human and therefore man cannot legislate anything about it unless they take on the role of owning a piece of anyones body.

2. To be real generic - you might want to start by looking into what LBJ did with the civil rights act - since without him it would never been made law - and he took a lot of heat from opposing republicans (as well as dems) when he forced the issue - the rest Ill just let you look over some good history books and newspapers dating back to the times before the civil war - since slavery was not made an issue til after the war had started and Lincoln needed a selling point that would play well to raising troops in the North (they still obeyed the Constitution back then and did not have a standing army other than the little forces out of the war colleges to do planning and some regulars for Indian control/manning of outposts)

1. Interesting that you insist that a fetus is not a life of its own, as its DNA is unique from the mother, not at all like a gall bladder. The fetus is not part of her body but simply inside of it. There is no direct connection through the umbilical cord as this organ only serves to nourish the fetus, bring it oxygen and carry away waste. But then the arguments of the left are typically convoluted, so knock yourself out.
2. LBJ did have empathy for blacks as he was poor himself growing up. He was also smart enough to realize that the Civil Rights legislation attempted by the Republicans for the past 100 years was gaining in overall popularity, and had even begun to influence rank and file Democrats. Moreover, he was the first prominent Democrat to understand that he could gain more political power by catering to the Black Man, while still maintaining the goal of subjugation.

[disrupter]

How about using voter caging against minority voters in recent elections?

Including challenging minority service persons on tour in Iraq where they had no idea their votes were challenged & stolen & no way of coming back to do legal battle for them.

there are high ranking people in Gonzales's DOJ that were criminally involved in exactly these crimes.

the same DOJ that is guilty of firing prosecutors for not pursuing bogus. baseless claims against democratic voters.

That is a big part of what that was about, rigging elections to entrench the corruption.

[kres24GT]

That's one reason why I'm frustrated by people that always vote party lines. A decade ago you couldn't find a republican that wanted to increase the size of government, the number of business regulations or laws of our personal life. Then in 2000 they all voted for exactly that and didn't even fucking know it.

Most still don't have a clue what they voted for. In the south most republican voters think dems spend like crazy while their own party spends responsibly.

Why can't people face the facts?


Just like all the Bush haters who are going to vote for Hillary simply because she has a D next to her name. Hilarious.