Self sufficient prisons

[Pat]

With the cost of housing a prisoner, would it make sense to force prisoners to work for their room and board?
Why can't prisons become self sufficient?
They could grow their own crops, raise their own meat and do their own laundry. I know that a single prison couldn't provide everything it needs to be self sufficient, but prisons could trade. One could harvest wheat, and another could harvest corn, yet another could raise hogs and another cattle.
That Iowa prison could trade it's corn for pork from that Carolina prison. Know what I mean?
If a prisoner wants to eat, he can work the fields or the slaughterhouse or the laundry facility, or the mess hall or whatever.
I'm not talking about them providing goods and services to the general population, but let them provide for themselves. Earn their own keep so to speak.

Why can't prisons become self sufficient?

[doctordog]

With the cost of housing a prisoner, would it make sense to force prisoners to work for their room and board?
Why can't prisons become self sufficient?
They could grow their own crops, raise their own meat and do their own laundry. I know that a single prison couldn't provide everything it needs to be self sufficient, but prisons could trade. One could harvest wheat, and another could harvest corn, yet another could raise hogs and another cattle.
That Iowa prison could trade it's corn for pork from that Carolina prison. Know what I mean?
If a prisoner wants to eat, he can work the fields or the slaughterhouse or the laundry facility, or the mess hall or whatever.
I'm not talking about them providing goods and services to the general population, but let them provide for themselves. Earn their own keep so to speak.

Why can't prisons become self sufficient?

You mean like devils island?

[Pat]

You mean like devils island?
Enlighten me.

[MarkMiller]

With the cost of housing a prisoner, would it make sense to force prisoners to work for their room and board?
Why can't prisons become self sufficient?
They could grow their own crops, raise their own meat and do their own laundry. I know that a single prison couldn't provide everything it needs to be self sufficient, but prisons could trade. One could harvest wheat, and another could harvest corn, yet another could raise hogs and another cattle.
That Iowa prison could trade it's corn for pork from that Carolina prison. Know what I mean?
If a prisoner wants to eat, he can work the fields or the slaughterhouse or the laundry facility, or the mess hall or whatever.
I'm not talking about them providing goods and services to the general population, but let them provide for themselves. Earn their own keep so to speak.

Why can't prisons become self sufficient?
They call that "Prison Industries" and it already exists in California. They raise and butcher their own meat. Raise some crops I think and even have their own coffee manufacturing. California Prisons became very self sufficient (by the way, prisons have done their own laundry for a very long time) but that became part of the criticism of the prison system..... that it was becoming to industrial and had/has potential to become to big. If California was allowed to build a couple more prisons and release non-violent offenders as well as change laws that fill our prisons with people that shouldn't be there to begin with it may be able to shut down older, less humane institutions. Folsom should be a Museum not a prison.

The problems with the US justice system are real, but the prisons themselves are not so bad. The US has the most modern and humane incarceration system in the world......we just have the largest prison population as well. We need to work on changing the laws that lock up individual in such huge quantities. Lower the prison populations by removing all individuals that could be placed back into society (and this is where the Prison system and the state need to loosen their grip) to reduce the prisons to just the most contemporary and safe structures and holding only those committing serious crimes. Drug laws, Three strikes laws and many other laws need to be reconsidered as to their effectiveness and whether or not the state can afford the unbalanced system of bringing in more than the system can handle until they all boil over and people lose their lives.

[Bill Cosby]

They call that "Prison Industries" and it already exists in California. They raise and butcher their own meat. Raise some crops I think and even have their own coffee manufacturing. California Prisons became very self sufficient (by the way, prisons have done their own laundry for a very long time) but that became part of the criticism of the prison system..... that it was becoming to industrial and had/has potential to become to big. If California was allowed to build a couple more prisons and release non-violent offenders as well as change laws that fill our prisons with people that shouldn't be there to begin with it may be able to shut down older, less humane institutions. Folsom should be a Museum not a prison.

The problems with the US justice system are real, but the prisons themselves are not so bad. The US has the most modern and humane incarceration system in the world......we just have the largest prison population as well. We need to work on changing the laws that lock up individual in such huge quantities. Lower the prison populations by removing all individuals that could be placed back into society (and this is where the Prison system and the state need to loosen their grip) to reduce the prisons to just the most contemporary and safe structures and holding only those committing serious crimes. Drug laws, Three strikes laws and many other laws need to be reconsidered as to their effectiveness and whether or not the state can afford the unbalanced system of bringing in more than the system can handle until they all boil over and people lose their lives.

Well homie you bring up some light to the debate as always........... !/3 (APROX) are non-violent & likely better off in rehab then making license plates............

But our state & federal institutions are BAD.............. I would be surprised if you were told otherwise....

Recently I heard on the radio (NPR) an interview of a woman that has been going to jails, penitentiaries ect all over the country & including several others, mostly south america............

She said that after 20 years of doing so she could not believe how bad San Quentin was........... She, was disgusted & appalled.............. In her expert opinion it was the worst she had ever seen...... That was a statement that impressed me..................:banghead:

I/we have a neighbor that I know that works there, last time I talked to him he was doing another double shift= 16 hours in that hell hole......... He is really a mellow guy but when he talks about is going to or coming from the prison you can see the stress on his face....

The gym is filled w/ bunkbeds & the ppl on deathrow could not even fit in our little town hall...............:talktothehand:

[xav8terx]

I actually agree with putting the prisoners to work. Gives them an opportunity to make a wage (very small of course) and possibly pick up a skill that could help them when released. It would save the taxpayers money plus continue to punish those that deserve to be punished for certain crimes. They shouldn't be allowed to sit around and work out, play cards and plan their next gang hit.

But as Mark said, we need to get the people out of there that don’t really belong there. Alls that is accomplishing is teaching them new criminal skills. There is a Sheriff in AZ I believe who makes them wear pink and work and what not. It sounded crazy when I first heard it but they did commit some sort of crime so why should they not be treated as such. He does show them respect from the little I have seen on this. And his system does seem to be working. Obviously this is something I need to read a little more about but I think you get my point.

[Pat]

They call that "Prison Industries" and it already exists in California. They raise and butcher their own meat. Raise some crops I think and even have their own coffee manufacturing. California Prisons became very self sufficient (by the way, prisons have done their own laundry for a very long time) but that became part of the criticism of the prison system..... that it was becoming to industrial and had/has potential to become to big. If California was allowed to build a couple more prisons and release non-violent offenders as well as change laws that fill our prisons with people that shouldn't be there to begin with it may be able to shut down older, less humane institutions. Folsom should be a Museum not a prison.

The problems with the US justice system are real, but the prisons themselves are not so bad. The US has the most modern and humane incarceration system in the world......we just have the largest prison population as well. We need to work on changing the laws that lock up individual in such huge quantities. Lower the prison populations by removing all individuals that could be placed back into society (and this is where the Prison system and the state need to loosen their grip) to reduce the prisons to just the most contemporary and safe structures and holding only those committing serious crimes. Drug laws, Three strikes laws and many other laws need to be reconsidered as to their effectiveness and whether or not the state can afford the unbalanced system of bringing in more than the system can handle until they all boil over and people lose their lives.
Just curious, got a link to show them being self sufficient?

[CosmicRocker]

I don't know about Calif. -that seems like an ideal place to use prision farm labor.

There are still chain gangs in the Deep South.

Mostly though they do cleanup details - not make work shovel projects anymore.

Unfortunately that isn't possible everywhere.
Lots of times it's cheaper to keep them locked up, deny rehabilitation - in other words warehouse them.

Progressive prisions can be more costly to operate,( security/training/facilities) and with privitization, that is happening too often.

[doctordog]

Enlighten me.

The rocky, palm-covered island rises 40 meters above sea level. The penitentiary was first opened by Emperor Napoleon III 's government in 1852, and became one of the most infamous prisons in history. In addition to the prisons on all three islands, prison facilities were located on the mainland at Kourou. Over time, they became known collectively as "Devil's Island" in the English-speaking world, while they are known in France as the bagne de Cayenne, (French: Cayenne penal colony) Cayenne being the main city of French Guiana.

While the colony was in use (1852-1946), the inmates were everything from political prisoners (such as 239 republicans who opposed Napoleon III's coup d'etat) to the most hardened of thieves and murderers. A great many of the more than 80,000 prisoners sent to the harsh conditions at disease-infested Devil's Island were never seen again. Other than by boat, the only way out was through a dense jungle; accordingly, very few convicts ever managed to escape.

On May 30, 1854, law provided that convicts would be forced to stay in French Guiana following their release for a time equal to their forced labour time, or, for sentences exceeding eight years, for the remainder of their lives. They were to be provided with land to settle on. In time, a variety of penal regimes emerged, convicts being divided into categories according to the severity of their crimes and their imprisonment or forced residence regime. In 1885, a law accelerated the process, since repeat offenders for minor crimes could also be sent. A limited number of convicted women were also sent to French Guiana, with the intent that they marry the freed male inmates; however, the results were poor and the government discontinued the practice in 1907.[1]

The horrors of the penal settlement became notorious in 1895 with the publicity surrounding the plight of the Jewish French army captain Alfred Dreyfus who had been wrongfully convicted of treason and was sent there on January 5.

[Moby]

You mean like devils island?
Steve McQueen and Dustin Hoffman in Papillon http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070511/

[Moby]

I think prisoners should be forced to work X number of hours as the sentence. If they work it off in 2 years then they're done. If it takes 10 years than so be it.

From my point of view if a criminal works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week then they have learned to work. Suddenly working 8 hour days 5 days a week seems easy.

Have someone sitting around doing nothing for 5 years then they will find it difficult to work as they've been conditioned to not work.

Make them work and work hard. If they become self sufficient than that's even better.

[mwillman]

Are you going to pay them or do you think indentured servitude should be legal.

We have the largest per capita number of prisoners of any nation on the world.

Maybe we should think about finding ways to fix the underlying issues that create are large criminal populations rather then reverting to an old form of slavery.

[CosmicRocker]

I think prisoners should be forced to work X number of hours as the sentence. If they work it off in 2 years then they're done. If it takes 10 years than so be it.

From my point of view if a criminal works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week then they have learned to work. Suddenly working 8 hour days 5 days a week seems easy.

Have someone sitting around doing nothing for 5 years then they will find it difficult to work as they've been conditioned to not work.

Make them work and work hard. If they become self sufficient than that's even better.
work is a PRIVLEDGE in most prisions.
would you like to be locked up 24/7 or be able to get out of the cell and work?

Like MARK MILLER said Ca uses them for farm labor, and most prisions have their own laundr and cooking facilities.

The hard ass cons get locked up in segregation, have to exercise in dog cages, and don't circulate with others.

Most prisioners get "yard time" they can exercise for an hour or 2 a day outside with other inmates.

So work is wanted by prisioners, but subject to their ability to pecefully co-exist with others.

If you want more info watch "Lockup" (MSNBC) on weekends.
give you a decent lookat different types of prisions, inmate controls.

[Bill Cosby]

I think prisoners should be forced to work X number of hours as the sentence. If they work it off in 2 years then they're done. If it takes 10 years than so be it.

From my point of view if a criminal works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week then they have learned to work. Suddenly working 8 hour days 5 days a week seems easy.

Have someone sitting around doing nothing for 5 years then they will find it difficult to work as they've been conditioned to not work.

Make them work and work hard. If they become self sufficient than that's even better.

Interesting concept............

So what of the wealth they labor creates??

[Pat]

I think prisoners should be forced to work X number of hours as the sentence. If they work it off in 2 years then they're done. If it takes 10 years than so be it.

From my point of view if a criminal works 12 hours a day, 6 days a week then they have learned to work. Suddenly working 8 hour days 5 days a week seems easy.

Have someone sitting around doing nothing for 5 years then they will find it difficult to work as they've been conditioned to not work.

Make them work and work hard. If they become self sufficient than that's even better.

Interesting concept............

So what of the wealth they labor creates??
It is an interesting concept, but what value do you put on a crime such as murder, rape or child molestation? How many hours is required to offset those crimes?

[Bill Cosby]

It is an interesting concept, but what value do you put on a crime such as murder, rape or child molestation? How many hours is required to offset those crimes?


Two things..... One I am not against restituion......... I am totally for it if it can be obtained.......

Secondly I think a wage standard should be set...........

We don't, I hope, want to set up systems like China & Russia...........

[Pat]

Two things..... One I am not against restituion......... I am totally for it if it can be obtained.......

Secondly I think a wage standard should be set...........

We don't, I hope, want to set up systems like China & Russia...........
My initial point in this thread was that prisons should be self sufficient. Does that happen in Russia and China?

How much restitution is fair for child molestation?
I can't think of a number.
Removal from the gene pool is all I can think fair for that horrendous act.

[Bill Cosby]

My initial point in this thread was that prisons should be self sufficient. Does that happen in Russia and China?

How much restitution is fair for child molestation?
I can't think of a number.
Removal from the gene pool is all I can think fair for that horrendous act.

Although things like castration for those kinda ppl sounds cruel & all that I think they would volunteer for it as opposed doing 30-40 years... Let them decide..??

What I would not want to see is prison gangs to were they go out & are exploited as a source of cheap labor........ Once that starts things get wacky..

[Pat]

Although things like castration for those kinda ppl sounds cruel & all that I think they would volunteer for it as opposed doing 30-40 years... Let them decide..??

What I would not want to see is prison gangs to were they go out & are exploited as a source of cheap labor........ Once that starts things get wacky..
I was thinking death, not castration.

I wasn't talking about cheap labor, I was talking about them supporting themselves.

[Bill Cosby]

I was thinking death, not castration.

I wasn't talking about cheap labor, I was talking about them supporting themselves.

So tell us how to do that...

[Pat]

So tell us how to do that...
Go back to the OP.

[Moby]

Are you going to pay them or do you think indentured servitude should be legal.
We could pay them a very small amount if we choose but they're there to "Pay a debt to society". It seems like we pay them instead of them actually paying back.

In prison work 12 hours days with no days off for $1.00 an hour.

Out of prison work 8 hours days, get 2 days off and earn $7.50 an hour.

Which is more attractive?

[Moby]

Interesting concept............

So what of the wealth they labor creates??
The labor could go be used to pay for the prison, education, roads or whatever. We have 1,000,000s of people in prison so why not put them to work and earn money for something good.

[Moby]

It is an interesting concept, but what value do you put on a crime such as murder, rape or child molestation? How many hours is required to offset those crimes?
Murder? Depends on the type. Many murders are crimes of passion and the murderer turn themselves in without ever committing another crime.

First degree or murder for money, drugs, gangs there may not be an option.

Same for rape and molestation.

Not everyone can fit into a work program but why not make those that can and are in for drugs and robbery earn their way out?

[Pat]

Murder? Depends on the type. Many murders are crimes of passion and the murderer turn themselves in without ever committing another crime.

First degree or murder for money, drugs, gangs there may not be an option.

Same for rape and molestation.

Not everyone can fit into a work program but why not make those that can and are in for drugs and robbery earn their way out?
Earning their way out works for me. (But not for murder, rape or child molestation)

As a side note, I think jailing somebody for drugs is just plain wrong. If they want harm their own body, that's their business. If they commit crimes to support their drug use, then it becomes societies business.

[ROdger Right]

Im glad to hear that many people are for using cheap labor aginst the negros again. Just make sure we keep the prisons as dark as possible.

[ROdger Right]

If we take away their rights for a crime. Then we force them to work their way out. Just sounding a little close to slavery.

[CosmicRocker]

The labor could go be used to pay for the prison, education, roads or whatever. We have 1,000,000s of people in prison so why not put them to work and earn money for something good.Most State prisions do that.
You gotta watch out for the privitized prisions run for profit.
All they do is warehouse prisioners.

[Pat]

Im glad to hear that many people are for using cheap labor aginst the negros again. Just make sure we keep the prisons as dark as possible.
Race has nothing to do with it. The conversation is about prisoners.

[ROdger Right]

Race has nothing to do with it. The conversation is about prisoners.

Fine but f we start making our prisoners work then what good is the third world?

[Pat]

Fine but f we start making our prisoners work then what good is the third world?
That point makes about as much sense as your lame race comment.

My point in the OP was to have them working to become self sufficient, thus costing the honest people that are not in prison a lot less.

[ROdger Right]

That point makes about as much sense as your lame race comment.

My point in the OP was to have them working to become self sufficient, thus costing the honest people that are not in prison a lot less.

:lmao2: 1% legit servant class

[Pat]

:lmao2: 1% legit servant class
Lets see, you go from race-baiting to 3rd world countries to this.
Most people call that trolling when you don't address the actual point.
Is an ad hominem attack next?

[petetree]

As far as prisoners working in self sufficient environs, I would think that this would save a lot of tax dollars...Although I could be wrong.

The gardening shop that I work in, in the past, not so much lately though, has worked with prisons to set up gardens that not only provide much needed nutrition to the diet of the prisoners, but, also provide fresh produce to the surrounding communities (local food shelters, old folk's homes, schools etc...)! Some of these people might never have had to care for anything in there lives...Care for them, nurse them back to health when sick (or over watered), I have never taken the time but it would be my thought that the recidivism rate of these caretakers would almost have to be less than licence plate stampers?

[Moby]

Earning their way out works for me. (But not for murder, rape or child molestation)

As a side note, I think jailing somebody for drugs is just plain wrong. If they want harm their own body, that's their business. If they commit crimes to support their drug use, then it becomes societies business.
It depends on the type of murder, the types of drugs and the quantity consumed. Crimes of passion are just that and while stupid are based on emotions and not calculated.

Some one smoking pot in their home is not harmful to others. Some one driving while on crack is.


Your point is well taken though.