America's real lost war

[Pat]

For the last 40+ years the politicians have declared a war on poverty.
They lost.
For the last 30+ years the poverty rate in the US has remained between about 11 and 15%.
Despite all the best efforts of our politicians, and all the money spent, the number doesn't change that much.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/povertyrate.html

[Bill Cosby]

LOL........... Good post.

Funny how we loZe all these "wars"............

We got the most ppl in jail, did we win NiXon's war on drugs yet either??

[Pat]

LOL........... Good post.

Funny how we loZe all these "wars"............

We got the most ppl in jail, did we win NiXon's war on drugs yet either??
Another lost war.

[Bill Cosby]

Hey we won Grenada so maybe we can win he next one....:thumbsup:

I think maybe we should look for a country poorer than Afghani-nam (there must be almost ten poorer places??) & has no history of resistance... But they gotta have some oil or gas, we don't wanna go in there for nuthin............

Brunie is not in any conflict--- Perfect profile... Rich, oil, Muslim.... We can do this...

[Pat]

Hey we won Grenada so maybe we can win he next one....:thumbsup:

I think maybe we should look for a country poorer than Afghani-nam (there must be almost ten poorer places??) & has no history of resistance... But they gotta have some oil or gas, we don't wanna go in there for nuthin............
California has oil.

[foxbaron]

LOL........... Good post.

Funny how we loZe all these "wars"............

We got the most ppl in jail, did we win NiXon's war on drugs yet either??


We never really started a War on Drugs, it is a myth.

[Bill Cosby]

We never really started a War on Drugs, it is a myth.

Yea & we never finished a war on drugs either so what is your point????

[foxbaron]

Yea & we never finished a war on drugs either so what is your point????


My point is that we never really had a "REAL WAR" on drugs.

[bairdi]

Looks like working people have also lost the class war.

Kucinich: ‘Class war is over, working people lost’

By Sahil Kapur
Thursday, December 17th, 2009 -- 3:05 pm

"The class warfare is over -- we lost," Kucinich said before the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. "I want to make that announcement today. Working people lost. The middle class lost."

The harrowing comments from Kucinich, who is Chairman of the Domestic Policy Subcommittee, come amidst a national unemployment rate of 10 percent, one year and several months after the economic collapse of 2008 has marred the livelihoods of many.

"Don't tell me about class warfare," he continued. "Come to my neighborhoods in Cleveland. I will show you class warfare. I’ll show you hollowed out areas. I’ll show you businesses that went down because they don’t have access to capital. And on Wall Street it is fat city. Don’t tell me about class warfare."

Kucinich, a former presidential candidate who is viewed across the nation as a progressive champion on many issues, said that despite the recent uptick in economic figures, many regular Americans continue to struggle.
Story continues below...

"All across this country people are starved for capital," Kucinich said. "Small businesses are failing, you have shopping centers that are becoming vacant because people can’t afford the rents anymore because the people who own the malls the developers are getting cash calls and credit is tightening."

"The separation between the finance economy and the real economy is real. This is not some fake idea. You can’t call that class warfare. That’s a fact."

Kucinich, who voted against the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (also known as the Wall Street bailout), lamented it as a catalyzing force for the rising inequality of income in the United States.

"The wealth of this nation is being accelerated upward," Kucinich said. "That’s one of the problems that I had with the bailout."

"You could say that it helped stabilize the American economy, but what I see is the separation between the real economy and Wall Street. Wall Street is stabilizing, markets are a lot better, banks are doing well -- they parked their money at the Fed for a while so they could get higher interest rates."

http://rawstory.com/2009/12/kucinich-class-war-working-people-lost/

[Mr, gone]

My point is that we never really had a "REAL WAR" on drugs.

So by understanding that our government lied regarding this "war" logic would say to be VERY suspect when they want to start up other ones.

[Bill Cosby]

My point is that we never really had a "REAL WAR" on drugs.

President tricky dickie declared a war on drugs in 69?? He did not call a "real war" so is that your point???

[foxbaron]

President tricky dickie declared a war on drugs in 69?? He did not call a "real war" so is that your point???


Point is, that when you declare a war, declare a war and then fight it like a war.

WE know where the drugs come from and who is involved in it. They should no longer be among the living.

[Brian-W]

Point is, that when you declare a war, declare a war and then fight it like a war.

WE know where the drugs come from and who is involved in it. They should no longer be among the living.

So we should start killing all users of illegal drugs? Like they do in Saudi Arabia?

[Bill Cosby]

Point is, that when you declare a war, declare a war and then fight it like a war.

WE know where the drugs come from and who is involved in it. They should no longer be among the living.

\Why not describe in detail just how we do that??? I don't want any raping or molesting....

We nuke Columbia??? Then Venusela etc, one after another till "our problem" is solved??

It would be cheaper just to give away free beer- make it a right, so then we will not have to kill everyone else only to end up were we started........

Not all problems are solved w/ violence...

[Pat]

\Why not describe in detail just how we do that??? I don't want any raping or molesting....

We nuke Columbia??? Then Venusela etc, one after another till "our problem" is solved??

It would be cheaper just to give away free beer- make it a right, so then we will not have to kill everyone else only to end up were we started........

Not all problems are solved w/ violence...
That's exactly what happens in the war on poverty. :confused:

[foxbaron]

So we should start killing all users of illegal drugs? Like they do in Saudi Arabia?


No.

You go after the guys manufacturing the drugs and importing them.

We know who is manufacturing them and where for the most part and we have a pretty good idea who is involved in protecting these people.

Surgical strikes and well placed cruise missles would be a good start.

And let's not forget late night visits on a persoanl nature to those in this country that aid and abet them.

[Pat]

I guess it's easier to ignore the war on poverty than to actually address the failure of it.

[Independent Harry]

No.

You go after the guys manufacturing the drugs and importing them.

We know who is manufacturing them and where for the most part and we have a pretty good idea who is involved in protecting these people.

Surgical strikes and well placed cruise missles would be a good start.

And let's not forget late night visits on a persoanl nature to those in this country that aid and abet them.

Yeah because we have the absolute authority to cross the borders of any country with impunity and attack whoever we please at any time...

[Boogie man]

Yeah because we have the absolute authority to cross the borders of any country with impunity and attack whoever we please at any time...

We have permission.

[Binky]

For the last 40+ years the politicians have declared a war on poverty.
They lost.
For the last 30+ years the poverty rate in the US has remained between about 11 and 15%.
Despite all the best efforts of our politicians, and all the money spent, the number doesn't change that much.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/povertyrate.html


Now they have a new war.....It's the war on global warming....They feverishly work, night and day, day and night, hour after hour, minute after minute to find some teeny little way in which they can stop it...........:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

[Bill Cosby]

Now they have a new war.....It's the war on global warming....They feverishly work, night and day, day and night, hour after hour, minute after minute to find some teeny little way in which they can stop it...........:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:

I think preventing ppl from being addicted to drugs...... Helping ppl out of poverty & preventing "the possibility" of any disaster are all worthy causes but I don't think we go about them always in the best way...

[Pat]

I think preventing ppl from being addicted to drugs...... Helping ppl out of poverty & preventing "the possibility" of any disaster are all worthy causes but I don't think we go about them always in the best way...
And just how is it possible to prevent poverty (and/or drug use)?
100's of governments await your solution.

[Bill Cosby]

And just how is it possible to prevent poverty (and/or drug use)?
100's of governments await your solution.
:talktothehand:
Show me the money first...............

[Pat]

:talktothehand:
Show me the money first...............
Here you go,
http://www.drugbuyers.com/freeboard/ubbthreads.php/ubb/download/Number/13093/filename/zimbabwe-zim-currency-slide.jpg

[Brian-W]

No.

You go after the guys manufacturing the drugs and importing them.

We know who is manufacturing them and where for the most part and we have a pretty good idea who is involved in protecting these people.

Surgical strikes and well placed cruise missles would be a good start.

And let's not forget late night visits on a persoanl nature to those in this country that aid and abet them.

Cruise missiles?

And you cry about the actions of terrorists.

Such audacity.

[Boogie man]

Cruise missiles?

And you cry about the actions of terrorists.

Such audacity.

Obama just fired missiles into Yeman. He wrote a book about "audacity".

[Brian-W]

Obama just fired missiles into Yeman. He wrote a book about "audacity".

WTF does Obama have to do with launching missiles against farmers?

[Boogie man]

WTF does Obama have to do with launching missiles against farmers?

What the hell is this idiot President doing launching missiles into Yeman?

[Brian-W]

What the hell is this idiot President doing launching missiles into Yeman?

You should have been screaming that very same thing back in 03

[Boogie man]

You should have been screaming that very same thing back in 03

What does that mean? Does that mean you agree with it only when Obama does it?

[foxbaron]

Yeah because we have the absolute authority to cross the borders of any country with impunity and attack whoever we please at any time...


When you declare a war, meaning Congress makes a formal declaration of war, you do not ask permission to cross borders. You ask the offending country to assist you and if they refuse you go in anyway. That country can elect to support your activities, join you in the effort or go to war with us because we violated their borders. Their choice.

If they decide they would rather go to war with us than we decimate them as they are the problem too.

A war is a no holds barred fight to the ultimate end. Either we win or we lose. There is no half way point. There are only two options, Victory or Defeat.

[Brian-W]

What does that mean? Does that mean you agree with it only when Obama does it?

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm disapointed in Obama, because he seems to be cut from the same cloth. More troops in Afghanistan, missiles into Yemen, bullshit medical reform...the list goes on and on. He seems to be supportive of the exact same political and economic agenda, yet he's a Marxist?

I'm just saying where was your outrage 2-3-4-5-6-7-8 years ago when GWB was selling your kids future down the toilet?

I just find it odd that you wait until now to get pissed off. Have you been on Zoloft for the past 9 years? Are you just now waking up ? I mean WTF Booger ?

[Brian-W]

A war is a no holds barred fight to the ultimate end. Either we win or we lose. There is no half way point. There are only two options, Victory or Defeat.

Settle down there Napoleon. :lmao2:

[CosmicRocker]

No.

You go after the guys manufacturing the drugs and importing them.

We know who is manufacturing them and where for the most part and we have a pretty good idea who is involved in protecting these people.

Surgical strikes and well placed cruise missles would be a good start.

And let's not forget late night visits on a persoanl nature to those in this country that aid and abet them.
have you looked over the border in Mexico?

Thousands of Mexican army troops had an all night street war in a city (name)just south of Mexico City about a week ago. The whole city was in combat.

They are in a full scale combat warfare to kill and capture the cartels, and all their street guys.

We also work with Mexico police agencies to track and seize profiteers in the US.

500,000 in jail for nonviolent drug possision crimes in the US.

They catch you selling drugs, they seize everything, and lock you up for a long time.

What else do you think can be done?
Shoot those caught with a joint?

[Brian-W]

have you looked over the border in Mexico?

Thousands of Mexican army troops had an all night street war in a city (name)just south of Mexico City about a week ago. The whole city was in combat.

They are in a full scale combat warfare to kill and capture the cartels, and all their street guys.

We also work with Mexico police agencies to track and seize profiteers in the US.

500,000 in jail for nonviolent drug possision crimes in the US.

They catch you selling drugs, they seize everything, and lock you up for a long time.

What else do you think can be done?
Shoot those caught with a joint?

I know a couple who were caught in Mississippi with a small amount of methamphetamine, and as luck would have it, he also had what was deemed at the time of arrest to be a pre-cursor to the manufacture. So they were arrested and charged with conspiracy to manufacture meth.

His girlfriend was released on bond after 45 days after her family managed to come up with $1,000 for a bondsman. Who also happened to be an off duty cop. Conflict of interest maybe? Nah....not a chance.

Anyway, my friend spent a total of 78 days in jail. He was released after his case went before the grand jury and they decided there was not enough evidence for a conviction.

So, after keeping him locked up for 78 days, causing him to lose a high paying job that he had for 3 years, they just let him go. They dropped the charges and washed their hands of him.

And to add insult to injury, they sold his confiscated car to pay for the impound charges.

Now, thanks to the war on drugs, he's receiving food stamps and working under the table. Way to make a difference huh? FUCK the anti-drug pigs and their corrupt system.

This case is not unique in any way. The WOD is the number one source of police and court corruption becuase of the money involved. People like Dick Nixon and Ronald Reagan essentially gave law enforcement the right to do whatever they want to in pursuit of people with a chemical dependency.

The WOD is nothing but a huge government beast, sucking money out of all our pockets. But the righties are all for it for some strange reason.

It's insanity....pure insanity.

[Pat]

I know a couple who were caught in Mississippi with a small amount of methamphetamine, and as luck would have it, he also had what was deemed at the time of arrest to be a pre-cursor to the manufacture. So they were arrested and charged with conspiracy to manufacture meth.

His girlfriend was released on bond after 45 days after her family managed to come up with $1,000 for a bondsman. Who also happened to be an off duty cop. Conflict of interest maybe? Nah....not a chance.

Anyway, my friend spent a total of 78 days in jail. He was released after his case went before the grand jury and they decided there was not enough evidence for a conviction.

So, after keeping him locked up for 78 days, causing him to lose a high paying job that he had for 3 years, they just let him go. They dropped the charges and washed their hands of him.

And to add insult to injury, they sold his confiscated car to pay for the impound charges.

Now, thanks to the war on drugs, he's receiving food stamps and working under the table. Way to make a difference huh? FUCK the anti-drug pigs and their corrupt system.

This case is not unique in any way. The WOD is the number one source of police and court corruption becuase of the money involved. People like Dick Nixon and Ronald Reagan essentially gave law enforcement the right to do whatever they want to in pursuit of people with a chemical dependency.

The WOD is nothing but a huge government beast, sucking money out of all our pockets. But the righties are all for it for some strange reason.

It's insanity....pure insanity.
The left currently controls both houses of congress and the presidency, so far I haven't seen them take any action to change drug laws.
You've been duped into blaming the right.

[foxbaron]

have you looked over the border in Mexico?

Thousands of Mexican army troops had an all night street war in a city (name)just south of Mexico City about a week ago. The whole city was in combat.

They are in a full scale combat warfare to kill and capture the cartels, and all their street guys.

We also work with Mexico police agencies to track and seize profiteers in the US.

500,000 in jail for nonviolent drug possision crimes in the US.

They catch you selling drugs, they seize everything, and lock you up for a long time.

What else do you think can be done?
Shoot those caught with a joint?


Never said shoot those with a joint. I said get them at the source. There is a difference.

[JJGlanton]

I know a couple who were caught in Mississippi with a small amount of methamphetamine, and as luck would have it, he also had what was deemed at the time of arrest to be a pre-cursor to the manufacture. So they were arrested and charged with conspiracy to manufacture meth.

His girlfriend was released on bond after 45 days after her family managed to come up with $1,000 for a bondsman. Who also happened to be an off duty cop. Conflict of interest maybe? Nah....not a chance.

Anyway, my friend spent a total of 78 days in jail. He was released after his case went before the grand jury and they decided there was not enough evidence for a conviction.

So, after keeping him locked up for 78 days, causing him to lose a high paying job that he had for 3 years, they just let him go. They dropped the charges and washed their hands of him.

And to add insult to injury, they sold his confiscated car to pay for the impound charges.

Now, thanks to the war on drugs, he's receiving food stamps and working under the table. Way to make a difference huh? FUCK the anti-drug pigs and their corrupt system.

This case is not unique in any way. The WOD is the number one source of police and court corruption becuase of the money involved. People like Dick Nixon and Ronald Reagan essentially gave law enforcement the right to do whatever they want to in pursuit of people with a chemical dependency.

The WOD is nothing but a huge government beast, sucking money out of all our pockets. But the righties are all for it for some strange reason.

It's insanity....pure insanity.
A guy gets busted for meth- and this lefty blames the consequences on the "War on Drugs"..... unfuckinbelievable

[foxbaron]

I know a couple who were caught in Mississippi with a small amount of methamphetamine, and as luck would have it, he also had what was deemed at the time of arrest to be a pre-cursor to the manufacture. So they were arrested and charged with conspiracy to manufacture meth.

His girlfriend was released on bond after 45 days after her family managed to come up with $1,000 for a bondsman. Who also happened to be an off duty cop. Conflict of interest maybe? Nah....not a chance.

Anyway, my friend spent a total of 78 days in jail. He was released after his case went before the grand jury and they decided there was not enough evidence for a conviction.

So, after keeping him locked up for 78 days, causing him to lose a high paying job that he had for 3 years, they just let him go. They dropped the charges and washed their hands of him.

And to add insult to injury, they sold his confiscated car to pay for the impound charges.

Now, thanks to the war on drugs, he's receiving food stamps and working under the table. Way to make a difference huh? FUCK the anti-drug pigs and their corrupt system.

This case is not unique in any way. The WOD is the number one source of police and court corruption becuase of the money involved. People like Dick Nixon and Ronald Reagan essentially gave law enforcement the right to do whatever they want to in pursuit of people with a chemical dependency.

The WOD is nothing but a huge government beast, sucking money out of all our pockets. But the righties are all for it for some strange reason.

It's insanity....pure insanity.


I guess it would be a good idea to stay out of Mississippi if your holding meth.

Matter of fact stay out of states with dranconian drug laws. OR, here's a thought, don't do drugs and/or don't carry them around with you. Leave your shit at home, use your shit at home and then stay home.

[Brian-W]

The left currently controls both houses of congress and the presidency, so far I haven't seen them take any action to change drug laws.
You've been duped into blaming the right.

Fair enough.

I'm SADLY disapointed in Obama for the way he has handled the marijuana legalization issue. Might as well be asking Ronald reagan.

[Brian-W]

A guy gets busted for meth- and this lefty blames the consequences on the "War on Drugs"..... unfuckinbelievable

My point is that the "consequences" are too severe and do absolutely nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it made it worse because it took a person who was working and paying taxes and made him into a taxpayer burden. But since you can't form a sentence without using the word lefty or liberal, I can understand why you spaced on me.

The war on drugs is based on this twisted ideology of punishing people who have chemical dependency problems. It tries to ruin their lives further. Who the fuck does that help? Do you just like making miserable people even more miserable? What kind of bullshit system is that?

[Pat]

My point is that the "consequences" are too severe and do absolutely nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it made it worse because it took a person who was working and paying taxes and made him into a taxpayer burden. But since you can't form a sentence without using the word lefty or liberal, I can understand why you spaced on me.

The war on drugs is based on this twisted ideology of punishing people who have chemical dependency problems. It tries to ruin their lives further. Who the fuck does that help? Do you just like making miserable people even more miserable? What kind of bullshit system is that?
We should tax tobacco instead. That doesn't harm people with a chemical dependency, does it?
Funny how the government picks and chooses how it wants to eke out it's punishment for drug use.

[foxbaron]

My point is that the "consequences" are too severe and do absolutely nothing to fix the problem. In fact, it made it worse because it took a person who was working and paying taxes and made him into a taxpayer burden. But since you can't form a sentence without using the word lefty or liberal, I can understand why you spaced on me.

The war on drugs is based on this twisted ideology of punishing people who have chemical dependency problems. It tries to ruin their lives further. Who the fuck does that help? Do you just like making miserable people even more miserable? What kind of bullshit system is that?


You may be partially right about the consequences but there has to be consequences at some point in the game.

Most people with a chemical dependency problem will not seek treatment and sometimes they have to be forced into it by the courts.

I would agree they not be sentenced to serve time with hardened criminals but they be forced into some type of rehab program (in-house) somewhere along with their counterparts.

The problem is that their chemical dependency usually results in their criminal activity which affects us all.

I still believe that the majority of these "drug" problems go back to the family unit and the lack of support and discpline at home.

A size 9 up your ass can do wonders for straightening a kid out before they go to the dark side.

[Brian-W]

You may be partially right about the consequences but there has to be consequences at some point in the game.

Most people with a chemical dependency problem will not seek treatment and sometimes they have to be forced into it by the courts.

I would agree they not be sentenced to serve time with hardened criminals but they be forced into some type of rehab program (in-house) somewhere along with their counterparts.

The problem is that their chemical dependency usually results in their criminal activity which affects us all.

I still believe that the majority of these "drug" problems go back to the family unit and the lack of support and discpline at home.

A size 9 up your ass can do wonders for straightening a kid out before they go to the dark side.

Sometimes it results in criminal ativity. But often, the drug use itself is the only "criminal" activity involved.

My friend had a drug problem. He still does. But at least he had a job and was paying his taxes. But because some overzealous cop was itching for a big conviction, he charged my friend with conspiracy to manufacture.

So he sat in jail for 78 days because his family could not afford the outrageous bond ($75,000).

And when the case went before the grand jury, the so called precursors turned out to be a prescription nasal inhaler that belonged to his girlfriend and 2 antique glass bottles that the cops had claimed were "lab equipment"

The amount of methamphetamine he had was less essentially some residue in a baggie stuck inside one of those empty carmex containers But when the story was published on the front page of the local paper, the story said the police found a "cannister containing a bag of methamphetamine" Tyhe local paper essentially had him convicted before he even had a chance for a trial. And after the charges were dropped and he was released, did they give him his car back? nope? Did the newspaper print a follow-up? NOPE?


YES, he's a dumbass for riding dirty. I've told him that many times. However, that is not an excuse to ruin someone.

The war on drugs is a corrupt beast that has to be stopped.

[JJGlanton]

Sometimes it results in criminal ativity. But often, the drug use itself is the only "criminal" activity involved.

My friend had a drug problem. He still does. But at least he had a job and was paying his taxes. But because some overzealous cop was itching for a big conviction, he charged my friend with conspiracy to manufacture.

So he sat in jail for 78 days because his family could not afford the outrageous bond ($75,000).

And when the case went before the grand jury, the so called precursors turned out to be a prescription nasal inhaler that belonged to his girlfriend and 2 antique glass bottles that the cops had claimed were "lab equipment"

The amount of methamphetamine he had was less essentially some residue in a baggie stuck inside one of those empty carmex containers But when the story was published on the front page of the local paper, the story said the police found a "cannister containing a bag of methamphetamine" Tyhe local paper essentially had him convicted before he even had a chance for a trial. And after the charges were dropped and he was released, did they give him his car back? nope? Did the newspaper print a follow-up? NOPE?


YES, he's a dumbass for riding dirty. I've told him that many times. However, that is not an excuse to ruin someone.

The war on drugs is a corrupt beast that has to be stopped.
The very use of illegal drugs involves more criminal activity than just the use. Posession of illegal drugs is a crime. Purchasing illegal drugs is a crime. transportation of illegal drugs is a crime. Solicitation to buy illegal drugs is a crime.

[Brian-W]

The very use of illegal drugs involves more criminal activity than just the use. Posession of illegal drugs is a crime. Purchasing illegal drugs is a crime. transportation of illegal drugs is a crime. Solicitation to buy illegal drugs is a crime.

What's your point?

The only reason those things are crimes because of outdated prohibition laws that have proven not to work.

The violence and other criminal activity that is sometimes associated with drug use is a direct result of them being illegal in the first place.

Drugs like methamphetamine require a different approach to combat. A few years ago, people could go into a pharmacy and buy as many sudafed tablets as they wanted to. Nowadays,the amount is limited by federal law. But thanks to the pharma-lobby ,and the fact that the DEA needs the drug trade to continue so they can stay in business, the amount of pills allowed is still enough to keep the drug on the street.

Marijuana on the other hand never hurt a soul. It's about time the civilized world came to it's senses and decrimininalize the cannabis plant. If everyone were allowed to grow their own, it would pretty much cut out the illicit market.

[foxbaron]

What's your point?

The only reason those things are crimes because of outdated prohibition laws that have proven not to work.

The violence and other criminal activity that is sometimes associated with drug use is a direct result of them being illegal in the first place.

Drugs like methamphetamine require a different approach to combat. A few years ago, people could go into a pharmacy and buy as many sudafed tablets as they wanted to. Nowadays,the amount is limited by federal law. But thanks to the pharma-lobby ,and the fact that the DEA needs the drug trade to continue so they can stay in business, the amount of pills allowed is still enough to keep the drug on the street.

Marijuana on the other hand never hurt a soul. It's about time the civilized world came to it's senses and decrimininalize the cannabis plant. If everyone were allowed to grow their own, it would pretty much cut out the illicit market.


I have to disagree that marijuana has never hurt a soul. I have seen way too many people involved in the use, sale/distribution of marijuana who have done more damage to themselves and their families than I care to think about.

It is not a victimless crime. It affects everyone around them. I also think that it actually is a gateway drug to other drugs. I have seldom seen those who use and or sell marijuana only confine their use/sale to just marijuana. There always seems to be other drugs involved. LSD, crystal meth, PCP, and even cocaine and heroin.

I think it lowers their ability to discern the seriousness of the activities they are invoolved in.

[John Galt]

I have to disagree that marijuana has never hurt a soul. I have seen way too many people involved in the use, sale/distribution of marijuana who have done more damage to themselves and their families than I care to think about.

It is not a victimless crime. It affects everyone around them. I also think that it actually is a gateway drug to other drugs. I have seldom seen those who use and or sell marijuana only confine their use/sale to just marijuana. There always seems to be other drugs involved. LSD, crystal meth, PCP, and even cocaine and heroin.

I think it lowers their ability to discern the seriousness of the activities they are invoolved in.
So is mother's milk.






I touched on failed social programs in the "Dislike About America" thread.

We tend to throw money at problems, and hope for the best.

Humans aren't stupid...they adapt to any given condition. Instead of creating a means to end poverty, our programs made it easier for the problem to grow geometrically.

We tend to think of those who live in poverty as deadbeats, and lowlife scum. Today, there are many working people who are impoverished, despite their work ethic.

[Brian-W]

I have to disagree that marijuana has never hurt a soul. I have seen way too many people involved in the use, sale/distribution of marijuana who have done more damage to themselves and their families than I care to think about.

It is not a victimless crime. It affects everyone around them. I also think that it actually is a gateway drug to other drugs. I have seldom seen those who use and or sell marijuana only confine their use/sale to just marijuana. There always seems to be other drugs involved. LSD, crystal meth, PCP, and even cocaine and heroin.

I think it lowers their ability to discern the seriousness of the activities they are invoolved in.

Everything can be a gateway to something else. alcohol can be gateways to cocaine under the right circumstances. So why not make it illegal?

That's right....... We tried that once before and just like drug prohibition,it caused more problems than it solved.

I'm not saying pot is perfect. It has to be somewhat unhealthy to inhale burning plant matter. But that's no reason to lock people in jail for it.

Typically, I think other drugs are involved in the pot trade because of the illegal status of the weed. You can't buy it from a legitimate location so it's being sold by god knows who.

The thing is that you cannot regulate weed because it's prohibitied. They have no idea how much pot is grown and consumed in this country every day. Prohibition has driven the pot business underground so all of the money is completely tax free and invisible.

Without prohibition the mexican marijuana coming across the border would screech to a halt because it would suddenly become worthless. People would be free to produce their own for personal consumption and it would do more to drive the cartels out of business than anything we've tried yet.