Health care reform that isn't

[Pat]

All this talk about health care reform, yet almost nothing in the bills do anything other than to create insurance reform and hand out perks to special interest groups.

In fact, the senate just denied you being able to get lower cost medicine.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091216/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_overhaul_drug_imports
How is that for health care improvement?

[Bill Cosby]

I am sure the dem's tried really, really, really hard.... MAybe even harder than that......:melodramatic: Hey maybe it isn't their fault @ all, it was manifest destiny.......... Their off the hook................:lmao2:

We should be proud that both the pharmaceutical industry and the Obama administration were lobbying against the proposal for our own good.....>>> Protecting us from bad drugs from those backward socialist countries>>>> Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand and Japan (bad countries, bad, bad, bad)

I think most Americans would be proud to allow a family member to suffer or go w/out medication rather than accept it from bad places...........

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/chrisforbes007/JUSTSAYNO.jpg

[Pat]

It's proof that they really aren't concerned about making health care more affordable.

[Bill Cosby]

Whats in it for them???:taunt:

They already got free care & all that.......... But they meant well I am sure.......:lmao2:

Hey you can even ask them about all those contributions from those med & pharm corporations they mean nothing, honest...........:winkwink:

[Pat]

Both the pharmaceutical industry and the Obama administration were lobbying against the proposal
See, health care reform isn't about actual health care.

[Bill Cosby]

That is not what I want......... I don't want reform.... insurance reform or any other kind......... I want universal coverage fore all citizens..... On line w/ the other civilized nations..........

If we are so exceptional & special why do they get care, & live longer & we get this shit???

[Pat]

That is not what I want......... I don't want reform.... insurance reform or any other kind......... I want universal coverage fore all citizens..... On line w/ the other civilized nations..........

If we are so exceptional & special why do they get care, & live longer & we get this shit???
The live longer because they don't have a 30% obesity rate.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity
What our government is calling "health care reform", isn't going to change that.

[Pat]

More,
http://stanfordhospital.org/clinicsmedServices/COE/surgicalServices/generalSurgery/bariatricsurgery/bariatricSurgeryObesityHealthEffects.html
snip,
Obesity has a far-ranging negative effect on health. Each year obesity-related conditions cost over 100 billion dollars and cause an estimated 300,000 premature deaths in the US. The health effects associated with obesity include, but are not limited to, the following:

[Bill Cosby]

Or maybe they live longer cause the don't worry about dying for lack of care...??

[Pat]

Or maybe they live longer cause the don't worry about dying for lack of care...??
I post facts with supporting links, you post opinion.
Yawn.

[Bill Cosby]

I post facts with supporting links, you post opinion.
Yawn.

Thats not my opinion I just thought it would be funny..... My bad..

You wanna be serious.... I will get back when I am in a serious mood........

Oh & don't blame our lack of longevity on fat ppl. They have rights & feelings to yea know...............:lmao2:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/chrisforbes007/girlprotesters.jpg

[JJGlanton]

That is not what I want......... I don't want reform.... insurance reform or any other kind......... I want universal coverage fore all citizens..... On line w/ the other civilized nations..........

If we are so exceptional & special why do they get care, & live longer & we get this shit???
they live healthier lifestyles, brainiac.:lmao2:

[JJGlanton]

I post facts with supporting links, you post opinion.
Yawn.
Bill's ideas are in no way supported by reality. Hence he can claim to love America while doing nothing but disparage America. He can claim to support our military while calling our military personnell terrorists and murderers. Reality has no part in the life of a typical lefty.

[Bill Cosby]

Bill's ideas are in no way supported by reality.

We can get two birds w/ one stone here..............

Talking about backing shit up & reality...........

Show me were I ever claimed to love america.. & then you back it up w/ the reality...................
You got none-------------------- You are wrong...

I will wait to see the fucking link.................:taunt:

[JJGlanton]

We can get two birds w/ one stone here..............

Talking about backing shit up & reality...........

Show me were I ever claimed to love america.. & then you back it up w/ the reality...................
You got none-------------------- You are wrong...

I will wait to see the fucking link.................:taunt:


Why don't you just provide us with the answer to the burning question here... do you love America?

[Bill Cosby]

Why don't you just provide us with the answer to the burning question here... do you love America?

BACK IT UP BITCH............!!!!!!

BACK UP WHAT YOU SAID!!!!!

YOU ARE A LIAR............................ TALK ABOUT REALTY THEN MAKE SHIT UP...................

THERE I GAVE YEA ANOTHER CHANCE....:lmao2:

[JJGlanton]

BACK IT UP BITCH............!!!!!!

BACK UP WHAT YOU SAID!!!!!

YOU ARE A LIAR............................ TALK ABOUT REALTY THEN MAKE SHIT UP...................

THERE I GAVE YEA ANOTHER CHANCE....:lmao2:
Ok. i am a liar. Now answer the more pertinent question. Do you love America? Its a pretty simple question.

[Bill Cosby]

Ok. i am a liar. Now answer the more pertinent question. Do you love America? Its a pretty simple question.


No I wanna hear I am a fuckin liar...................................:hi:

:lmao2:

& I already answered that question............ SO you go look it up & shove it up your ass & apologize again when yea do...................

Oh & have a nice day.............:)

[JJGlanton]

No I wanna hear I am a fuckin liar...................................:hi:

:lmao2:

& I already answered that question............ SO you go look it up & shove it up your ass & apologize again when yea do...................

Oh & have a nice day.............:)


Why is "Do you love America" so hard to directly answer with a yes or no, Bill?

[bairdi]

Can You Really Love Your Country?
by Sheldon Richman, May 30, 2008

Why do people get upset with Barack Obama for not wearing a flag pin on his lapel or with Michelle Obama for suggesting she’s not been proud of her country until now? Why is failing to “support the troops” regarded as a sin?

Because it’s a secular blasphemy to do or say anything that suggests you don’t love your country. But why should you love your country? Most people would say our country has done so much for us that we should show our gratitude.

But what has “our country” done for us? An even better question is: what is “our country”?

A country is not one concrete thing. It’s many things, and frankly, not all of them are lovable. One’s country is one’s home and perhaps birthplace. Nothing wrong having a fondness for those things.

A country is also its people. But can anyone love all the American people? I can think of quite a few that I don’t love.

The country, moreover, is its history and culture. One certainly can love some things about America’s history and culture. The philosophy expressed in the Declaration of Independence is worthy of affection. The abolitionist movement should be admired. Any genuine struggle for liberty and against tyranny should command our respect.

But there’s a lot about American history and culture that any decent person should hold in contempt: slavery, Jim Crow, the oppression of Indians, racism in general, the demeaning of women, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, conscription, mercantilist privilege (which stifles economic opportunity and harms the poor most of all), and lots more.

The government is also part of the country — and in that regard there’s much to dislike, as the list above shows. The U.S. government’s record largely has been one of domination at home and abroad. But love of country being blind, most people won’t see it.

One can’t help thinking that those who loudly profess their love of the country — those, for example, who must display the American flag on everything from their lapel to their car — actually worship the nation and state as though they were mystical god-like entities. When they demand patriotism of others, they really are demanding nationalism. Nationalism is more than affection for one’s home or a felt bond with people who have a common history or set of ideals. It’s a source of identity — and therein lies the danger: it’s also the source of suspicion of the Other. American nationalism is an especially virulent strain, since the United States is considered by its “leaders” and citizens an exception among nations and unbound by the normal rules.

Nationalism is a secular religion — and a collectivist one at that. Idealizing “service to the country,” as both Obama and John McCain do, ill-suits a free society because it inevitably means service to, or defined by, the state. (If it simply meant doing good for one’s fellow human beings, the profit-seeking entrepreneur would be praised for his service.)

The antiwar dissident Randolph Bourne understood that the state comes into its own during war and the conduct of foreign policy generally. Unsurprisingly, it is war critics who most often are accused of not loving their country. In contrast, if you enlist to fight, you reap the highest praise. And if you die “for your country,” you have made the ultimate sacrifice, which the rest of us are obliged to honor.

Nonsense. Why is it noble to permit yourself to be ordered to invade other countries without question by any politician who happens to occupy the White House? Why is dying — and killing — in such a cause an occasion for honor? Why must any criticism of “our country’s” military operations be tempered by expressions of respect for the president and support for the troops?

For the nationalist, the answer is that the nation — and its worldly representative, the government — are to be worshipped and trusted. Radical criticism — that is, criticism that goes to the root — is blasphemy, perhaps to be tolerated, but just barely.

Insisting on the alleged virtue of loving one’s country mainly serves to give those in power a blank check. The alternative, though, is not to hate one’s country, for this would merely be the other side of the same fallacy. A country per se should be an object neither of love nor of hatred.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0805k.asp

[JJGlanton]

Can You Really Love Your Country?
by Sheldon Richman, May 30, 2008

Why do people get upset with Barack Obama for not wearing a flag pin on his lapel or with Michelle Obama for suggesting she’s not been proud of her country until now? Why is failing to “support the troops” regarded as a sin?

Because it’s a secular blasphemy to do or say anything that suggests you don’t love your country. But why should you love your country? Most people would say our country has done so much for us that we should show our gratitude.

But what has “our country” done for us? An even better question is: what is “our country”?

A country is not one concrete thing. It’s many things, and frankly, not all of them are lovable. One’s country is one’s home and perhaps birthplace. Nothing wrong having a fondness for those things.

A country is also its people. But can anyone love all the American people? I can think of quite a few that I don’t love.

The country, moreover, is its history and culture. One certainly can love some things about America’s history and culture. The philosophy expressed in the Declaration of Independence is worthy of affection. The abolitionist movement should be admired. Any genuine struggle for liberty and against tyranny should command our respect.

But there’s a lot about American history and culture that any decent person should hold in contempt: slavery, Jim Crow, the oppression of Indians, racism in general, the demeaning of women, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, conscription, mercantilist privilege (which stifles economic opportunity and harms the poor most of all), and lots more.

The government is also part of the country — and in that regard there’s much to dislike, as the list above shows. The U.S. government’s record largely has been one of domination at home and abroad. But love of country being blind, most people won’t see it.

One can’t help thinking that those who loudly profess their love of the country — those, for example, who must display the American flag on everything from their lapel to their car — actually worship the nation and state as though they were mystical god-like entities. When they demand patriotism of others, they really are demanding nationalism. Nationalism is more than affection for one’s home or a felt bond with people who have a common history or set of ideals. It’s a source of identity — and therein lies the danger: it’s also the source of suspicion of the Other. American nationalism is an especially virulent strain, since the United States is considered by its “leaders” and citizens an exception among nations and unbound by the normal rules.

Nationalism is a secular religion — and a collectivist one at that. Idealizing “service to the country,” as both Obama and John McCain do, ill-suits a free society because it inevitably means service to, or defined by, the state. (If it simply meant doing good for one’s fellow human beings, the profit-seeking entrepreneur would be praised for his service.)

The antiwar dissident Randolph Bourne understood that the state comes into its own during war and the conduct of foreign policy generally. Unsurprisingly, it is war critics who most often are accused of not loving their country. In contrast, if you enlist to fight, you reap the highest praise. And if you die “for your country,” you have made the ultimate sacrifice, which the rest of us are obliged to honor.

Nonsense. Why is it noble to permit yourself to be ordered to invade other countries without question by any politician who happens to occupy the White House? Why is dying — and killing — in such a cause an occasion for honor? Why must any criticism of “our country’s” military operations be tempered by expressions of respect for the president and support for the troops?

For the nationalist, the answer is that the nation — and its worldly representative, the government — are to be worshipped and trusted. Radical criticism — that is, criticism that goes to the root — is blasphemy, perhaps to be tolerated, but just barely.

Insisting on the alleged virtue of loving one’s country mainly serves to give those in power a blank check. The alternative, though, is not to hate one’s country, for this would merely be the other side of the same fallacy. A country per se should be an object neither of love nor of hatred.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0805k.asp

Bairdi says no, Bill does not love America. I agree, but would rather have Bill answer for himself.

[Bill Cosby]

Why is "Do you love America" so hard to directly answer with a yes or no, Bill?

Lets see.......... How about after you ask that same question 10 times?? No make it a dozen.... & then I will answer...................:thumbsup:

:hi:

[JJGlanton]

Lets see.......... How about after you ask that same question 10 times?? No make it a dozen.... & then I will answer...................:thumbsup:

:hi:
Actually, I have my answer. Thanks, Bill!

[Bill Cosby]

Bairdi says no, Bill does not love America. I agree, but would rather have Bill answer for himself.

Those don't count you must ask me to be part of the one dozen times....

& publicly grovelling & begging http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/bullbeg.giffor support may be amusing it will not get you much help....

[Bill Cosby]

Actually, I have my answer. Thanks, Bill!

Good so you finally looked it up............ Good for you... (Pat, pat on the head smiley here)...

[bairdi]

Bairdi says no, Bill does not love America. I agree, but would rather have Bill answer for himself.
I wasn't answering for Bill. I was just pointing out to you, using that article, that your question is a bit absurd. One can certainly love ones mother, father, children, spouse and any other number of people. But can one love ones car like the advertisers would have you believe? Can one love an inanimate object. Can one really even love one's country? Respect it, yes. Obey its laws, yes. Honor the idea of country, yes. But love it?

Do you love your planet?

[JJGlanton]

Those don't count you must ask me to be part of the one dozen times....

& publicly grovelling & begging http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/bullbeg.giffor support may be amusing it will not get you much help....
you have answered the question to the satisfaction of anyone interested. Kind of like how Clinton answered the question about whether or not he has smoked marijuana. I am sorry that I assumed you did love America- my post that "you claim to love America" was clearly erroneous, and I do apologize for that improper and somewhat slanderous assumption.

[JJGlanton]

I wasn't answering for Bill. I was just pointing out to you, using that article, that your question is a bit absurd. One can certainly love ones mother, father, children, spouse and any other number of people. But can one love ones car like the advertisers would have you believe? Can one love an inanimate object. Can one really even love one's country? Respect it, yes. Obey its laws, yes. Honor the idea of country, yes. But love it?

Do you love your planet?


The question of whether one "love's their country" is simple. For me, yes I do. And if you have difficulty answering such a question- it might tell you something about the nature of your feelings towards America.

[MintJulep]

I wasn't answering for Bill. I was just pointing out to you, using that article, that your question is a bit absurd. One can certainly love ones mother, father, children, spouse and any other number of people. But can one love ones car like the advertisers would have you believe? Can one love an inanimate object. Can one really even love one's country? Respect it, yes. Obey its laws, yes. Honor the idea of country, yes. But love it?

Do you love your planet?Do you love America?

[JJGlanton]

Do you love America?

That is a question Bill will not answer, and Bairdi does not think can be answered. Why do you think that is?

[Bill Cosby]

you have answered the question to the satisfaction of anyone interested. Kind of like how Clinton answered the question about whether or not he has smoked marijuana. I am sorry that I assumed you did love America- my post that "you claim to love America" was clearly erroneous, and I do apologize for that improper and somewhat slanderous assumption.


So now you are rewriting history........... Sorry son I am not gonna let you get away w/ that here.............. YOU ADMITTED YOU ARE A LIAR... So you can save all that shit.........

& speaking of saving shit, you can take all that sanctimonious "we" shit & shove it.......... You just got here............. The only one interested is you & you aint even got enough game to keep up.... In one hour you went from a smart guy to dumbass liar.............. I guess your happy now???

So you wanted it & yea got it.................. I hope it was worth the trip over...........

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[JJGlanton]

So now you are rewriting history........... Sorry son I am not gonna let you get away w/ that here.............. YOU ADMITTED YOU ARE A LIAR... So you can save all that shit.........

& speaking of saving shit, you can take all that sanctimonious "we" shit & shove it.......... You just got here............. The only one interested is you & you aint even got enough game to keep up.... In one hour you went from a smart guy to dumbass liar.............. I guess your happy now???

So you wanted it & yea got it.................. I hope it was worth the trip over...........

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
Yep- I told you I was a liar. I was wrong about you claiming to Love America. I genuinely believed you made the claim, but accept that I was wrong, and if that makes me a liar in your book, I don't really care. Gald to see I could get your America-hatin panties all bunched up. :lmao2:

[MintJulep]

That is a question Bill will not answer, and Bairdi does not think can be answered. Why do you think that is?Apparently they are embarrassed to admit the truth. It's a yes or no answer. I think the non-answer is the answer.

[JJGlanton]

Apparently they are embarrassed to admit the truth. It's a yes or no answer. I think the non-answer is the answer.
BINGO!!!! You would think that, if they were comforatble with their feelings of contempt and disdain for America, they would be much more direct about it.

[Bill Cosby]

Apparently they are embarrassed to admit the truth. It's a yes or no answer. I think the non-answer is the answer.

I answered it a few days ago............. After lying about it I guess he thought to go look it up............

Death to America............ Viva Fidal, Morales & Chavez........... Viva taliband 1988, death to taliband 2008................:lmao2:

[MintJulep]

BINGO!!!! You would think that, if they were comforatble with their feelings of contempt and disdain for America, they would be much more direct about it.That's what I don't understand. If you take a position, own it. Instead of defending socialism, their preferred economic model, they deny it is what it is. Instead of admitting disdain for this country, it's denied. Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

[MintJulep]

I answered it a few days ago............. After lying about it I guess he thought to go look it up............

Death to America............ Viva Fidal, Morales & Chavez........... Viva taliband 1988, death to taliband 2008................:lmao2:What was the answer? I missed it. I don't think he deliberately lied, but assumed you are like the majority of lefties on this board who claim to love America, yet denigrate it with every breath.

[JJGlanton]

I answered it a few days ago............. After lying about it I guess he thought to go look it up............

Death to America............ Viva Fidal, Morales & Chavez........... Viva taliband 1988, death to taliband 2008................:lmao2:
That is no sort of answer to the question posed. And no, I didn't look anything up. When you called me a liar for saying that you claimed to love America, I simply accepted that you have never made such a claim. You are like the concentric kiwi-bird, Bill.

[JJGlanton]

What was the answer? I missed it. I don't think he deliberately lied, but assumed you are like the majority of lefties on this board who claim to love America, yet denigrate it with every breath.
His supposed "answer" is an indirect expression of the disdain he has for America. As usual, he will not directly state whether he loves America or not- he would rather imply his disdain. If he wants to believe that making a false assumption is the same as lying, I have no problem with that.

[bairdi]

Do you love America?
One can certainly love ones mother, father, children, spouse and any other number of people. But can one love ones car like the advertisers would have you believe? Can one love an inanimate object. Can one really even love one's country? Respect it, yes. Obey its laws, yes. Honor the idea of country, yes. But love it?

Do you love your neighborhood?
Do you love your city?
Do you love your county?
Do you love your state?
Do you love your country?
Do you love your hemisphere?
Do you love your planet?

When I grew up this is what I was taught about love. You loved God with all your heart and you loved your neighbor as yourself.

I refuse to let you or that punk JJ corner me into the box of nationalism by equating it with love. Do I believe in my country right or wrong. Fuck no!

[JJGlanton]

One can certainly love ones mother, father, children, spouse and any other number of people. But can one love ones car like the advertisers would have you believe? Can one love an inanimate object. Can one really even love one's country? Respect it, yes. Obey its laws, yes. Honor the idea of country, yes. But love it?

Do you love your neighborhood?
Do you love your city?
Do you love your county?
Do you love your state?
Do you love your country?
Do you love your hemisphere?
Do you love your planet?

When I grew up this is what I was taught about love. You loved God with all your heart and you loved your neighbor as yourself.

I refuse to let you or that punk JJ corner me into the box of nationalism by equating it with love. Do I believe in my country right or wrong. Fuck no!
Nobody asked you if you believbed in your country, right or wrong. We asked if you love your country, and we ask it with all sincerity- because all we hear from the left is how awful America is.