Another victory for big government and big business.

[kres24GT]

Minimum wage hike is on it's way. Another unconstitutional increase to set wages to help hurt small business and aid in buying votes for politicians.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

Minimum wage hike is on it's way. Another unconstitutional increase to set wages to help hurt small business and aid in buying votes for politicians.

Well unless everything else (like rents and utilities) comes down, it's kind of hard to survive on the current minimum wage. Most small employers pay better than minimum wage anyway to attract and keep good employees. Bigger companies tend to only pay minimum wage and take forever to give raises in many cases.

LM

[kres24GT]

Well unless everything else (like rents and utilities) comes down, it's kind of hard to survive on the current minimum wage. Most small employers pay better than minimum wage anyway to attract and keep good employees. Bigger companies tend to only pay minimum wage and take forever to give raises in many cases.

LM


All of that is irrelevant. We can't support unconstitutional, anti freedom big government programs when we agree with them. Bigger companies can afford to pay more to their employees, smaller companies cannot. It's not just about the very few people making minimum wage, it's about adjusting the scale.


The government has no place in setting wages. If I am willing to work for 3 bucks an hour, I should be able to.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

All of that is irrelevant. We can't support unconstitutional, anti freedom big government programs when we agree with them. Bigger companies can afford to pay more to their employees, smaller companies cannot. It's not just about the very few people making minimum wage, it's about adjusting the scale.


The government has no place in setting wages. If I am willing to work for 3 bucks an hour, I should be able to.

I agree to a point. Big companies may be able to pay more, but they don't as a rule. Smaller companies often do and seem to be holding their own.

If you want to work for $3 an hour, do so. Let me know how you fare finding affordable rent and utilities on that kind of income. Throw in a couple kids to the mix, and then the fun really can begin.



LM

[kres24GT]

I agree to a point. Big companies may be able to pay more, but they don't as a rule. Smaller companies often do and seem to be holding their own.

If you want to work for $3 an hour, do so. Let me know how you fare finding affordable rent and utilities on that kind of income. Throw in a couple kids to the mix, and then the fun really can begin.



LM


That's the point I should be free to. Anyone making minimum wage should not be having kids. Again, all of this discussion is really irrelevant. It isn't the government's place. Keep government out of our business, finical, private, and otherwise.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

That's the point I should be free to. Anyone making minimum wage should not be having kids. Again, all of this discussion is really irrelevant. It isn't the government's place. Keep government out of our business, finical, private, and otherwise.


Well, one can't always guarantee they will never have kids so you really have to work that into the equation.

Why is it irrelevant? Explain to me why you think it's irrelevant when it's happening? How can that be irrelevant?

Furthermore, until we eliminate lobbying and federal taxes, we can't remove government out of business, financial, private or otherwise. So, it's a part of life. Government is set up to serve the people. Are not business owners people? Are not wage earners also people?

So, shouldn't they be aware of these kinds of developments and shouldn't it be discussed?

Do you ever want to debate ANYTHING? Or do you just call things irrelevant that make you uncomfortable and simply agree with other things that don't?



LM

[Bill]

I vote for letting Kres work for 3 bucks an hour.

In fact, Kres, why fuckin wait - give everything you make over 3 bucks an hour to some colored girl on the subway. Keep her off the welfare.

Do it now - if you wait, then you're just a government suckup.

[kres24GT]

Well, one can't always guarantee they will never have kids so you really have to work that into the equation.

Why is it irrelevant? Explain to me why you think it's irrelevant when it's happening? How can that be irrelevant?

Furthermore, until we eliminate lobbying and federal taxes, we can't remove government out of business, financial, private or otherwise. So, it's a part of life. Government is set up to serve the people. Are not business owners people? Are not wage earners also people?

So, shouldn't they be aware of these kinds of developments and shouldn't it be discussed?

Do you ever want to debate ANYTHING? Or do you just call things irrelevant that make you uncomfortable and simply agree with other things that don't?



LM


You can't guarantee you will never have kids? What???? Even if this were true why are employers forced by the police power of government to pay for them?

It's irrelevant because its unconstitutional to have a federal minimum wage per the 10th amendment. Unless you want to be like Bush and manipulate the Constitution to make it say what you want, this is of course true. The founding fathers would have never dreamed the federal government would regulate wages.

Explain to me, if I want to work for you at 4 bucks an hour, why should the government tell me I can't?


I see you only favor freedom and constitutionality when you disagree with some sort of law or policy. When you agree with it, it's just government and democracy in action.


Common problem with the defense of freedom, people are only willing to defend it when it infringes on something that personal affects them or they feel strongly about regulating. If they have no problem forcing that view on everyone, then fuck freedom.

[kres24GT]

I vote for letting Kres work for 3 bucks an hour.

In fact, Kres, why fuckin wait - give everything you make over 3 bucks an hour to some colored girl on the subway. Keep her off the welfare.

Do it now - if you wait, then you're just a government suckup.


Freedom's a bitch ain't it? The comfort and safety of big government running our loves is a much better solution.

[Bill]

You talk as if there's a realistic choice otherwise.

But I never hear you promoting armed rebellion. Or any rebellion at all.

So everything you say defaults to the stance of the perfect op.

As propaganda goes, it's a great gambit.

[kres24GT]

You talk as if there's a realistic choice otherwise.

But I never hear you promoting armed rebellion. Or any rebellion at all.

So everything you say defaults to the stance of the perfect op.

As propaganda goes, it's a great gambit.


There is. Ron Paul and other libertarians will get rid of the minimum wage. LadyMod herself is considering voting for Paul.

[Linkster]

Actually that is correct and the government is just making wage guidelines - the states set the actual minimum wages and in a lot of cases theirs are already higher than what the government is setting as guidelines

The US government never did have the power to actually set wages - they just recommend them to the states - in my case, my state is not going to follow them

[Southern Man]

I vote for letting Kres work for 3 bucks an hour.

In fact, Kres, why fuckin wait - give everything you make over 3 bucks an hour to some colored girl on the subway. Keep her off the welfare.

Do it now - if you wait, then you're just a government suckup.

Its not your choice.

[LadyMod at scam.com]

You can't guarantee you will never have kids? What???? Even if this were true why are employers forced by the police power of government to pay for them?

Why would you ask your employer to pay for them? And why should children live in poverty simply because they had the ill luck of being born at an inconvienient time to unskilled parents, an unwed mother or are children of a broken marriage? Or maybe someone who was layed off and can't find equal employment elsewhere?


It's irrelevant because its unconstitutional to have a federal minimum wage per the 10th amendment. Unless you want to be like Bush and manipulate the Constitution to make it say what you want, this is of course true. The founding fathers would have never dreamed the federal government would regulate wages.

The founding fathers would have never dreamed that the federal government would tax our incomes either but they do. What does that have to do with anything? It's sad to say but if the Government didn't step in and regulate what businesses do there wouldn't be any small businesses left to work for. Hell, if small business men don't start speaking up, it's a sure bet they will be underpriced right out of the competition. Then what do we have left? Big companies run amuck, shipping jobs overseas and paying slave wages to workers in America.


Explain to me, if I want to work for you at 4 bucks an hour, why should the government tell me I can't?

Hey, if you want to work for $3 or $4 bucks go for it. Take the left over and donate it to a woman's shelter.


I see you only favor freedom and constitutionality when you disagree with some sort of law or policy. When you agree with it, it's just government and democracy in action.

LOL, what you see is someone who lives in the 21st century and not the 18th century.




Common problem with the defense of freedom, people are only willing to defend it when it infringes on something that personal affects them or they feel strongly about regulating. If they have no problem forcing that view on everyone, then fuck freedom.

Freedom to provide for one's family free of unjust taxation, large corporate lobbying and corrupt government would be a wonderful Utopia. We lost it less than 10 years after the ink on the Constitution dried. If the people were to vote on what they will allow government to do for them, a minimum suggested wage would probably rate right up there with the top things they would allow the government to police and regulate on their behalf. Hey, put it to a national vote and let the people of America decide what is a fair wage for the least paid to make in this country.

LM

.

[kres24GT]

Why would you ask your employer to pay for them? And why should children live in poverty simply because they had the ill luck of being born at an inconvienient time to unskilled parents, an unwed mother or are children of a broken marriage? Or maybe someone who was layed off and can't find equal employment elsewhere?



The founding fathers would have never dreamed that the federal government would tax our incomes either but they do. What does that have to do with anything? It's sad to say but if the Government didn't step in and regulate what businesses do there wouldn't be any small businesses left to work for. Hell, if small business men don't start speaking up, it's a sure bet they will be underpriced right out of the competition. Then what do we have left? Big companies run amuck, shipping jobs overseas and paying slave wages to workers in America.



Hey, if you want to work for $3 or $4 bucks go for it. Take the left over and donate it to a woman's shelter.



LOL, what you see is someone who lives in the 21st century and not the 18th century.





Freedom to provide for one's family free of unjust taxation, large corporate lobbying and corrupt government would be a wonderful Utopia. We lost it less than 10 years after the ink on the Constitution dried. If the people were to vote on what they will allow government to do for them, a minimum suggested wage would probably rate right up there with the top things they would allow the government to police and regulate on their behalf. Hey, put it to a national vote and let the people of America decide what is a fair wage for the least paid to make in this country.

LM

.


Will try to cover all your points here.

1. Starving children are a tragedy. However enabling people who should not have kids to do so is causing huge problems including increase in government dependence and crime. If you beleive its government job to solve this problem (I don't) social programs and fixing wages is a poor solution.

2. Income tax. The constitution was amended to have an income tax. It was not amended to set wages or do many other things it does. Since the founding fathers gave us the ability to amend the constitution, rather than ignore it, they did enable us to do this. You think government should set wages (I disagree), let's do it constitutionally.

3. government regulation hurts small business and in most cases the bills and laws are written by big business to help limit competition. The regulations are so numerous and the cost of compliance so high, only big business can afford to keep up with the red tape. In a free market you will be able to choose to give your dollars to big business or small business. In a regulated market, only big business ends up surviving. The little guys are forced out of business are compelled to sell out to the big boys. Regulation causes jobs to be shipped over seas, it doesn't prevent it.

4. You are missing the point on the I want to work for 3 bucks. Let's say I am 16 and work at a grocery store. No one will hire me for less than 6 bucks an hour, even though I am willing to work for 3. I should be free to do this. Government should not interfere with an agreement between two parties if both parties comply willingly. There is no right to a wage we deem fair. If there was we'd all be millionaires.

[Moby]

We all know that small businesses did so terribly when the economy was growing at twice the rate it is today under Clinton when he kept raising the minimum wage.

Oh wait a second, small businesses did really well then. Now I need an argument based on facts. Does anyone have one that I can use to help Kres?

[Southern Man]

We all know that small businesses did so terribly when the economy was growing at twice the rate it is today under Clinton when he kept raising the minimum wage.

Oh wait a second, small businesses did really well then. Now I need an argument based on facts. Does anyone have one that I can use to help Kres? Try searching the internet instead of listening to Air America. :taunt:

Back at ya.

[kres24GT]

We all know that small businesses did so terribly when the economy was growing at twice the rate it is today under Clinton when he kept raising the minimum wage.

Oh wait a second, small businesses did really well then. Now I need an argument based on facts. Does anyone have one that I can use to help Kres?


Regulation was a mere speed bump in Clinton's days as compared to now under the liberals and neocons in power now. Not to mention most of the regulation is state and local. Do you know in practically every state it would be illegal for me to cut your hair in exchange for money, even if we both agree. In 48 states if I were to charge you to help you draw up a will I could be jailed.

I saw recently where Bernie Marcus (Home Depot co founder) said the HD dream would not be able to happen today, it's just too hard to get into an existing market now due to all the regulation.

[Southern Man]

Regulation was a mere speed bump in Clinton's days as compared to now under the liberals and neocons in power now. Not to mention most of the regulation is state and local. Do you know in practically every state it would be illegal for me to cut your hair in exchange for money, even if we both agree. In 48 states if I were to charge you to help you draw up a will I could be jailed.

I saw recently where Bernie Marcus (Home Depot co founder) said the HD dream would not be able to happen today, it's just too hard to get into an existing market now due to all the regulation.
Good points and evidence of the huge negative impact of special interests.

I think John Edwards ought to be ashamed for all the financing of barbers that he has done. ;)