View Full Version : Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum
Isn't this what Jesus would do?
I think it's time to stop the charade and remove their tax exempt status since this is obviously a political organization.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111116943.html?referrer=reddit
Same-sex marriage bill, as written, called a threat to social service contracts
By Tim Craig and Michelle Boorstein
Thursday, November 12, 2009
The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.
Under the bill, headed for a D.C. Council vote next month, religious organizations would not be required to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.
Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.
"If the city requires this, we can't do it," Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the archdiocese, said Wednesday. "The city is saying in order to provide social services, you need to be secular. For us, that's really a problem."
Several D.C. Council members said the Catholic Church is trying to erode the city's long-standing laws protecting gay men and lesbians from discrimination.
The clash escalates the dispute over the same-sex marriage proposal between the council and the archdiocese, which has generally stayed out of city politics.
Catholic Charities, the church's social services arm, is one of dozens of nonprofit organizations that partner with the District. It serves 68,000 people in the city, including the one-third of Washington's homeless people who go to city-owned shelters managed by the church. City leaders said the church is not the dominant provider of any particular social service, but the church pointed out that it supplements funding for city programs with $10 million from its own coffers.
"All of those services will be adversely impacted if the exemption language remains so narrow," Jane G. Belford, chancellor of the Washington Archdiocese, wrote to the council this week.
The church's influence seems limited. In separate interviews Wednesday, council member Mary M. Cheh (D-Ward 3) referred to the church as "somewhat childish." Another council member, David A. Catania (I-At Large), said he would rather end the city's relationship with the church than give in to its demands.
"They don't represent, in my mind, an indispensable component of our social services infrastructure," said Catania, the sponsor of the same-sex marriage bill and the chairman of the Health Committee.
The standoff appears to be among the harshest between a government and a faith-based group over the rights of same-sex couples. Advocates for same-sex couples said they could not immediately think of other places where a same-sex marriage law had set off a break with a major faith-based provider of social services.
The council is expected to pass the same-sex marriage bill next month, but the measure continues to face strong opposition from a number of groups that are pushing for a referendum on the issue.
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Socialist_Revolution
11-13-2009, 10:59 AM
Isn't this what Jesus would do?
I think it's time to stop the charade and remove their tax exempt status since this is obviously a political organization.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/11/AR2009111116943.html?referrer=reddit
This is why I am no longer a practicing Catholic and have not been for years. It disgusts me I was ever a catholic, I am now a non denom christian and much happier.
MarkMiller
11-13-2009, 12:41 PM
Blackmail. Let them do it. Let them show their true nature of cutting off anyone that dos not kiss the popes bloodied hands and feet.
AND take away their their tax exempt status.....they're more than a just a political organization....they are a complete and sovereign nation and we should cut ties with them as a state that sponsors terrorism. Seriously.
we should cut ties with them as a state that sponsors terrorism. Seriously.
I don't know about that but let's face it.
They're a political organization and if they are going to take these types of political stands than they should not have a tax exempt status.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 04:22 PM
I say make them pay property taxes
Seraphim
11-13-2009, 04:35 PM
I think it's time to stop the charade and remove their tax exempt status since this is obviously a political organization.
All churches should be taxed.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 05:14 PM
Aint this a bitch!..The religious organization that has a serious problem with child molesting priests, is gonna tell the rest of us how we should live
foxbaron
11-13-2009, 06:44 PM
Damn a religious organization that actually stands by its convictions. AIn't that a bitch.
Cookie
11-13-2009, 06:54 PM
All churches should be taxed.
And while we're at it, give them the same rights that all tax paying citizens enjoy - a voice in policy making and to have their views represented in government.
(Do you even understand what you are asking for? I think not)
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slowhand
11-13-2009, 06:55 PM
Damn a religious organization that actually stands by its convictions. AIn't that a bitch.
Notice how they stand by, harbor and cover up for their pedophile priests..Hows that for "convictions?"
foxbaron
11-13-2009, 06:57 PM
Notice how they stand by, harbor and cover up for their pedophile priests..Hows that for "convictions?"
That's not standing by the tenets of their faith that's covering their asses and they should be held accountable for it.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 07:02 PM
That's not standing by the tenets of their faith that's covering their asses and they should be held accountable for it.
They dont allow women to be priests, which is one reason why they attract child molesters like flies
And not allowing women to be priests is kinda chavanistic and bigoted, no?
serum114
11-13-2009, 07:04 PM
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foxbaron
11-13-2009, 07:22 PM
They dont allow women to be priests, which is one reason why they attract child molesters like flies
And not allowing women to be priests is kinda chavanistic and bigoted, no?
Which is perhaps why the priests should be allowed to marry. They used to be able to until the Church got cencerned that the wives and or ex-wives could have a claim on the churches assets.
Damn a religious organization that actually stands by its convictions. AIn't that a bitch.
I don't think you understand the issues here.
They're talking about taking money away from helping people like Jesus would want. Instead they're trying to take a political stand.
Which is perhaps why the priests should be allowed to marry. They used to be able to until the Church got cencerned that the wives and or ex-wives could have a claim on the churches assets.
Men of God are supposed to be faithful and now you're defending child molesters?
doctordog
11-13-2009, 09:46 PM
I don't know about that but let's face it.
They're a political organization and if they are going to take these types of political stands than they should not have a tax exempt status.
Moral not political, there is a difference.
doctordog
11-13-2009, 09:48 PM
I don't think you understand the issues here.
They're talking about taking money away from helping people like Jesus would want. Instead they're trying to take a political stand.
Actually DC is politicizing them by telling them they will HAVE abide by gay marriage laws. Good God the police state politics is coming faster than anyone could have predicted.
foxbaron
11-13-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't think you understand the issues here.
They're talking about taking money away from helping people like Jesus would want. Instead they're trying to take a political stand.
They're talking about not supporting abortion which the Catholic Church doesn't support as far as I know.
I also don't think Jesus would support taking the life of the unborn innocents.
I believe, now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that one of the 10 Commandments is "thou shall not commit murder".
Now if you do not consider a fetus to be a human being than in your mind it is not murder, it's just an inconvenience to be dealt with.
Sure hope for your sake you never have to explain that one to "Jesus" some day.
In my world it is considered murder, period.
foxbaron
11-13-2009, 10:04 PM
I don't think you understand the issues here.
They're talking about taking money away from helping people like Jesus would want. Instead they're trying to take a political stand.
They're talking about not supporting abortion which the Catholic Church doesn't support as far as I know.
I also don't think Jesus would support taking the life of the unborn innocents.
I believe, now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that one of the 10 Commandments is "thou shall not commit murder".
Now if you do not consider a fetus to be a human being than in your mind it is not murder, it's just an inconvenience to be dealt with.
Sure hope for your sake you never have to explain that one to "Jesus" some day.
In my world it is considered murder, period.
Sometimes your religious stand will go against the popular political stance and therefore becomes political as well as moral.
doctordog
11-13-2009, 10:21 PM
They're talking about not supporting abortion which the Catholic Church doesn't support as far as I know.
I also don't think Jesus would support taking the life of the unborn innocents.
I believe, now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that one of the 10 Commandments is "thou shall not commit murder".
Now if you do not consider a fetus to be a human being than in your mind it is not murder, it's just an inconvenience to be dealt with.
Sure hope for your sake you never have to explain that one to "Jesus" some day.
In my world it is considered murder, period.
Sometimes your religious stand will go against the popular political stance and therefore becomes political as well as moral.
How ironic is it that abortion is ok with liberals but if you kill a pregnant woman you will be charged with TWO murders.
Actually DC is politicizing them by telling them they will HAVE abide by gay marriage laws.
You mean that everyone has to now marry a gay partner? :lmao2:
I bet most of the people that the church was helping isn't planning on a gay marriage so they're not abiding by gay marriage laws in any way.
In fact, I bet that bulk of people that live in Washington, DC have no intentions of abiding by these laws as you claim and finding gay partners to marry.
As usual, you show you're amazing lack of understanding of even the most simple of issues.
Moral not political, there is a difference.They're taking a political stand. They going to punish the people that need help if politicians enact a laws are politics. Helping people in need is moral.
I know that you've confused numbers often but this is different.
Can't you get anything right?
They're talking about not supporting abortion which the Catholic Church doesn't support as far as I know.
Obviously you didn't read the article and don't have a clue what you're talking about it.
It's Gay Marriage Law and not an abortion law.
lucytalk
11-13-2009, 10:58 PM
And while we're at it, give them the same rights that all tax paying citizens enjoy - a voice in policy making and to have their views represented in government.
(Do you even understand what you are asking for? I think not)
as a canadian i totally understand gay marriage is a legal issue
not a faith based decision.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:11 PM
They're talking about not supporting abortion which the Catholic Church doesn't support as far as I know.
I also don't think Jesus would support taking the life of the unborn innocents.
I believe, now feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, that one of the 10 Commandments is "thou shall not commit murder".
Now if you do not consider a fetus to be a human being than in your mind it is not murder, it's just an inconvenience to be dealt with.
Sure hope for your sake you never have to explain that one to "Jesus" some day.
In my world it is considered murder, period.
Love the fetus..Molest the child
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:14 PM
Which is perhaps why the priests should be allowed to marry. They used to be able to until the Church got cencerned that the wives and or ex-wives could have a claim on the churches assets.
Well thats kinda strange..Ive never heard of the Episcopal church getting ransacked in a divorce settlement
lucytalk
11-13-2009, 11:16 PM
Well thats kinda strange..Ive never heard of the Episcopal church getting ransacked in a divorce settlement
in actuality ~ the church wanted all the priest worldly goods
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:17 PM
in actuality ~ the church wanted all the priest worldly goods
Ransom or extortion?
lucytalk
11-13-2009, 11:20 PM
Ransom or extortion?
salvation . . .
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:26 PM
salvation . . .
Its worse than I thought!!
foxbaron
11-13-2009, 11:31 PM
Obviously you didn't read the article and don't have a clue what you're talking about it.
It's Gay Marriage Law and not an abortion law.
You are correct. Don't have a clue how I read abortion in that but somehow I did.
However, the Church only recognizes marriage between a man and a woman and considers homosexual acts to be an abomination against God.
Therefore the City Council is still asking them to ignore their belief system and forcing the Chuch to take a stand, which they should do.
Mason66
11-13-2009, 11:34 PM
They dont allow women to be priests, which is one reason why they attract child molesters like flies
I don't think the men come into the church as child molestors.
They are made to live against human nature. No sex or release of any kind.
Of course they are going to get release with the only beings under their control.
Who did not see this coming.
Human nature is stronger than arbitrarry rules these people must live by.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:40 PM
I don't think the men come into the church as child molestors.
They are made to live against human nature. No sex or release of any kind.
Of course they are going to get release with the only beings under their control.
Who did not see this coming.
Human nature is stronger than arbitrarry rules these people must live by.
Celibacy goes against human nature..But I'll tell you what..If I was a Catholic Priest, I would take my chances shacking up with a woman..How about you?
Still think they "became" child molesters, or the "were" child molesters?
lucytalk
11-13-2009, 11:40 PM
I don't think the men come into the church as child molestors.
They are made to live against human nature. No sex or release of any kind.
Of course they are going to get release with the only beings under their control.
Who did not see this coming.
Human nature is stronger than arbitrarry rules these people must live by.
if ever there was a profession for child molesters ~ the catholic church would be like a career choice (right up to recently but times they are a changing)
Mason66
11-13-2009, 11:46 PM
Celibacy goes against human nature..But I'll tell you what..If I was a Catholic Priest, I would take my chances shacking up with a woman..How about you?
Still think they "became" child molesters, or the "were" child molesters?
How would you keep that woman quiet about the affair.
The woman would know it was wrong, whereas the kids are too scared to say anything for a lot of years anyway.
There have never been any studies done about people living against human nature so we don't know how it really affect the brain.
I would never be associated with an organization like the Catholic Church. They are scary people. I don't know to what lengths I would go when my body was demending release and my mind was battling with the stupid rules.
Who knows.
slowhand
11-13-2009, 11:54 PM
How would you keep that woman quiet about the affair.
The woman would know it was wrong, whereas the kids are too scared to say anything for a lot of years anyway.
There have never been any studies done about people living against human nature so we don't know how it really affect the brain.
I would never be associated with an organization like the Catholic Church. They are scary people. I don't know to what lengths I would go when my body was demending release and my mind was battling with the stupid rules.
Who knows.
Well..If a priest got caught with a woman, he wouldnt be looking at atleast 20 years in the can, and maybe life..Im still thinking the woman is looking like a better prospect
Mason66
11-14-2009, 12:00 AM
Well..If a priest got caught with a woman, he wouldnt be looking at atleast 20 years in the can, and maybe life..Im still thinking the woman is looking like a better prospect
The point is is that the priests never thought the kids would ever tell.
After they did it and 10 years went by, nothing. 20 years went by, nothing.
They think they got away with it. I am sure it was discussed between themselves.
A woman would talk right away.
Look At Pat Robertson, I think it was him.
slowhand
11-14-2009, 12:04 AM
The point is is that the priests never thought the kids would ever tell.
After they did it and 10 years went by, nothing. 20 years went by, nothing.
They think they got away with it. I am sure it was discussed between themselves.
A woman would talk right away.
Look At Pat Robertson, I think it was him.
I think a guy has to have a few loose screws to take a lifetime vow of celibacy to begin with
Mason66
11-14-2009, 12:07 AM
I think a guy has to have a few loose screws to take a lifetime vow of celibacy to begin with
I completely agree. I can't imagine a situation where I would ever agree to anything like that. The calling is crap and an excuse to give up the responsibility of life. Everything is done for these people. Catholics scare the hell out of me.
I just don't get it at all.
slowhand
11-14-2009, 12:44 AM
I completely agree. I can't imagine a situation where I would ever agree to anything like that. The calling is crap and an excuse to give up the responsibility of life. Everything is done for these people. Catholics scare the hell out of me.
I just don't get it at all.
I was brought up in the Catholic chuch..When I was old enough to make my own decisions I got the hell out of there and the only time I set foot in the church is when somebody gets married, or when somebody dies..Most of the priests and nuns Ive met were miserable, angry people
Therefore the City Council is still asking them to ignore their belief system and forcing the Chuch to take a stand, which they should do.
They are taking a political stand.
They would send aid to Somolia while genocide was taking place. Does that mean that they're OK with that?
They provide aid to southern states where people get divorced at a rate of over 50%. Should they stop all aid in the South?
This stand doesn't make sense as anything other than a political move and in so doing they are now a political organization (as they have always been through history) and should help us pay off the deficit.
John Galt
11-14-2009, 09:13 AM
And while we're at it, give them the same rights that all tax paying citizens enjoy - a voice in policy making and to have their views represented in government.
(Do you even understand what you are asking for? I think not)
Property taxes...not income taxes. Theoretically, they don't turn a profit...key word, theoretically.
Brian-W
11-14-2009, 10:15 AM
Property taxes...not income taxes. Theoretically, they don't turn a profit...key word, theoretically.
If the church wants to start paying property taxes and income taxes on those millions they collect every year, I'm more than happy to let them express their politcal views.
Until then, they can't have it both ways.
Brian-W
11-14-2009, 10:18 AM
Which is perhaps why the priests should be allowed to marry. They used to be able to until the Church got cencerned that the wives and or ex-wives could have a claim on the churches assets.
Now you just gave them props for standing by their convictions and then turn around and say you want them to change and allow their priests to marry.
So which is it?
Cookie
11-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Property taxes...not income taxes. Theoretically, they don't turn a profit...key word, theoretically.
Property taxes still gives them a voice in govt. How about some statues in the public square of Jesus and some of the saints? Or a nice tableau of the ten commandments in the courthouse? Or prayer back in the public schools. Nativity scenes on the lawn of City Hall.
Property taxes pay for a great deal at the state and local level. That's quite a bit of political influence right there.
Think about it.
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Cookie
11-14-2009, 10:57 AM
as a canadian i totally understand gay marriage is a legal issue
not a faith based decision.
Thanks for responding to my post. I can get mighty lonely over here.
Yes, gay marriage is a civil rights issue, and should be treated as such.
But if they start taxing churches, we will soon see religious viewpoints being considered in what were once legal matters on civil rights. Separation of church and state will likely be discarded, because the constitution provides that there will be no taxation without representation.
Believe me, these are some powerful voting blocks, and they have the might to get Roe v Wade tossed out, prayer put back in the schools, etc etc.
As I said earlier, these taxing advocates have no idea what they are asking for, nor the ramifications of such.
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MintJulep
11-14-2009, 11:08 AM
Thanks Cookie. Those are brilliant points which hadn't crossed my mind until now. Bravo!
Cookie
11-14-2009, 11:32 AM
Thanks Cookie. Those are brilliant points which hadn't crossed my mind until now. Bravo!
Thank YOU Minty! :)
________
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Separation of church and state will likely be discarded, because the constitution provides that there will be no taxation without representation.
But the church is trying to combine it's political views with the state.
If they are going to do that which you believe they shouldn't than why give them the tax break?
They already are discarding the separation of church and state. It's not an issue of they might in the future. They already did it!
MintJulep
11-14-2009, 02:36 PM
But the church is trying to combine it's political views with the state.
If they are going to do that which you believe they shouldn't than why give them the tax break?
They already are discarding the separation of church and state. It's not an issue of they might in the future. They already did it!I don't see that but if they are taxed, they will have carte blanche to do it.
Hey, maybe if they're taxed, no one can complain about saying Merry Christmas and Santa suits anymore? Sweet.
I don't see that but if they are taxed, they will have carte blanche to do it.
What don't you see?
They're saying if the politicians that represent the people pass a law then they will cut aid to the citizens that need that aid. That's exactly what Cookie claims might happen yet it is happening right now.
foxbaron
11-14-2009, 07:07 PM
Now you just gave them props for standing by their convictions and then turn around and say you want them to change and allow their priests to marry.
So which is it?
allowing priests to marry has nothing to do with their beliefs as far as the religion goes
foxbaron
11-14-2009, 07:08 PM
What don't you see?
They're saying if the politicians that represent the people pass a law then they will cut aid to the citizens that need that aid. That's exactly what Cookie claims might happen yet it is happening right now.
the church doesn't represent the [people they represent God
ROdger Right
11-14-2009, 07:11 PM
Any politican who supports these measures (government vs religion) will find their public service is no longer required in a few short years to come.
Cookie
11-14-2009, 07:19 PM
What don't you see?
They're saying if the politicians that represent the people pass a law then they will cut aid to the citizens that need that aid. That's exactly what Cookie claims might happen yet it is happening right now.
Moby. How do you know me as Cookie?
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ROdger Right
11-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Moby. How do you know me as Cookie?
Hes an underground hacker:disbelief:
Brian-W
11-14-2009, 08:31 PM
Thanks for responding to my post. I can get mighty lonely over here.
Yes, gay marriage is a civil rights issue, and should be treated as such.
But if they start taxing churches, we will soon see religious viewpoints being considered in what were once legal matters on civil rights. Separation of church and state will likely be discarded, because the constitution provides that there will be no taxation without representation.
Believe me, these are some powerful voting blocks, and they have the might to get Roe v Wade tossed out, prayer put back in the schools, etc etc.
As I said earlier, these taxing advocates have no idea what they are asking for, nor the ramifications of such.
Hmmmmm. You raise some interesting points. It's a sticky issue for sure.
Do you remember when I posted the newspaper clipping from my area back before the prez election?
The title of the article was "how would jesus vote" and it gave a list of issues and how Jesus would vote on them. How it is that they know how the J-man would feel about these issues is beyond me. But alas, that is between them and God.
These people are already abusing the system designed to protect them. Yes, they have the right to express their free speech. But that ad was paid for by tax free doantions. As was the pastors Toyota Camry, but that's another discussion altogether.
Organized religion is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the public.
ROdger Right
11-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Hmmmmm. You raise some interesting points. It's a sticky issue for sure.
Organized religion is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the public.
No doubt there. Though to tax them would hurt every person they hand out aid to world wide.
MintJulep
11-14-2009, 10:18 PM
Moby. How do you know me as Cookie?I think he knew it because I addressed you as "Cookie" a few posts ago.
Thanks again for the insight on this. You are one smart Cookie! ;)
MintJulep
11-14-2009, 10:19 PM
What don't you see?
They're saying if the politicians that represent the people pass a law then they will cut aid to the citizens that need that aid. That's exactly what Cookie claims might happen yet it is happening right now. I thought you were saying we have already discarded separation of church and state, and, I simply don't see that. Maybe you have an example?
doctordog
11-14-2009, 10:39 PM
They're taking a political stand. They going to punish the people that need help if politicians enact a laws are politics. Helping people in need is moral.
I know that you've confused numbers often but this is different.
Can't you get anything right?
So now you don't believe in the separation of church and state, WTF Moby?
Brian-W
11-14-2009, 11:36 PM
No doubt there. Though to tax them would hurt every person they hand out aid to world wide.
That's a very simple solution. Any person or business who donates money to a charity can claim it as an exemption.
All they have to do is stop building these stupid mega-churches, quit trying to push their twisted morality onto the rest of us, and use all that money the way I think Jesus would have wanted them to.
slowhand
11-15-2009, 08:28 AM
Church doesnt belong in the political process, as politics dont belong at the alter
When you incorporate church into politics, you are asking for major problems, if for no other reason that there are too many Christian denominations, as well as other faiths
Then you've got those nutball Kool Aid drinking cults, like the Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist Church, the Branch Dividians, Marshall Applewhite and the Heaven's Gate group..Do we really want these whackos involved in the political process?..As if we havent got enough problems already
Seriously..Do we really want to give these idiots a seat at the political table?
I mean, for example, if you give the Catholic Church a say in the process, you have to include these crackpots in the political process as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEsqCgkeKM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvEsqCgkeKM)
So now you don't believe in the separation of church and state, WTF Moby?
I know this is difficult for GOP supporters after the past decade or so but just because people say it doesn't make it so. We may claim that there is a speration of church and state when we can clearly see there is not. It's kind of like saying that republicans are fiscal conservatives while the world can clearly see that they are not.
Wayers, since you obviously can't keep up with these adult conversations maybe there's a elementary school board some where that allows old guys to discuss politics.
John Galt
11-15-2009, 09:24 AM
Property taxes still gives them a voice in govt. How about some statues in the public square of Jesus and some of the saints? Or a nice tableau of the ten commandments in the courthouse? Or prayer back in the public schools. Nativity scenes on the lawn of City Hall.
Property taxes pay for a great deal at the state and local level. That's quite a bit of political influence right there.
Think about it.
I don't have a problem with statues in public. It gives the pigeons somewhere to roost.
Keep in mind...I want ALL religions to pay property taxes. I don't believe prop. taxes do anything at the state level. What they do, is fund each county's education...something you would have to agree is in dire need of better funding.
As well, they pay for local roads, fire companies/ambulance, and for the salaries of county workers.
I don't see where paying property taxes gives any individual/org. any say in govt? Not since the founding fathers limited voting rights to white, male property owners.
ciaobox
11-15-2009, 10:26 AM
we all just need to, once again, brush up on our faith and get over it.
:talktothehand:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k
doctordog
11-15-2009, 06:41 PM
I know this is difficult for GOP supporters after the past decade or so but just because people say it doesn't make it so. We may claim that there is a speration of church and state when we can clearly see there is not. It's kind of like saying that republicans are fiscal conservatives while the world can clearly see that they are not.
Wayers, since you obviously can't keep up with these adult conversations maybe there's a elementary school board some where that allows old guys to discuss politics.
Just answer the fucking question. Are you saying you are not in favor of separation of church and state?
No deflection, no juvenile insults, just answer the question.:taunt:
lucytalk
11-15-2009, 10:24 PM
Thanks for responding to my post. I can get mighty lonely over here.
Yes, gay marriage is a civil rights issue, and should be treated as such.
But if they start taxing churches, we will soon see religious viewpoints being considered in what were once legal matters on civil rights. Separation of church and state will likely be discarded, because the constitution provides that there will be no taxation without representation.
Believe me, these are some powerful voting blocks, and they have the might to get Roe v Wade tossed out, prayer put back in the schools, etc etc.
As I said earlier, these taxing advocates have no idea what they are asking for, nor the ramifications of such.
the church is a institution. they can only vote once per person and they already do that. and they already use their political muscles as a voting bloc, hence this thread.
the church is already preaching from the pulpit and interfering in politics ~ we might as well tax them if they refuse to stop.
i'd rather keep separate church and state but i also have no problem taxing the hell out of them if they don't knock it off.
Cookie
11-16-2009, 11:48 AM
the church is a institution. they can only vote once per person and they already do that. and they already use their political muscles as a voting bloc, hence this thread.
the church is already preaching from the pulpit and interfering in politics ~ we might as well tax them if they refuse to stop.
i'd rather keep separate church and state but i also have no problem taxing the hell out of them if they don't knock it off.
Then you ain't seen nuthin' yet. If you think they are over-involved now, wait until they are on the taxpaying rolls.
Personally, I'd rather the money go toward the social services churches provide than taxes. Because the gap created will have to be filled by taxpayer money in the end.
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Cookie
11-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't have a problem with statues in public. It gives the pigeons somewhere to roost.
Keep in mind...I want ALL religions to pay property taxes. I don't believe prop. taxes do anything at the state level. What they do, is fund each county's education...something you would have to agree is in dire need of better funding.
As well, they pay for local roads, fire companies/ambulance, and for the salaries of county workers.
I don't see where paying property taxes gives any individual/org. any say in govt? Not since the founding fathers limited voting rights to white, male property owners.
Property taxes represent a portion of each state's operating budget each year. They also serve as a collection point and administration point for county and local government receiving property taxes as their share of revenue. Once a person has paid their property taxes to the county, the county sends it to the state, they take their cut off the top, and then after a certain date, divide it up between all the local and county goverments.
In particular, states without sales and/or income tax rely more heavily on property taxes as part of their operating budgets, because property taxes represent one of the most stable revenue streams.
Please don't get me started on more funding for schools in my state. I'm liable to blow a gasket! :banghead:
Do you remember the flack from a while ago about the state that voted to teach creationism in the classroom? You start taxing churches and you'll have a lot more to deal with than teaching creationism. Wait for it.
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Then you ain't seen nuthin' yet. If you think they are over-involved now, wait until they are on the taxpaying rolls.
What are you saying?
We should let them get away with this now because of we don't it will only get worse?
I fail to see your point.
MintJulep
11-16-2009, 02:12 PM
Property taxes represent a portion of each state's operating budget each year. They also serve as a collection point and administration point for county and local government receiving property taxes as their share of revenue. Once a person has paid their property taxes to the county, the county sends it to the state, they take their cut off the top, and then after a certain date, divide it up between all the local and county goverments.
In particular, states without sales and/or income tax rely more heavily on property taxes as part of their operating budgets, because property taxes represent one of the most stable revenue streams.
Please don't get me started on more funding for schools in my state. I'm liable to blow a gasket! :banghead:
Do you remember the flack from a while ago about the state that voted to teach creationism in the classroom? You start taxing churches and you'll have a lot more to deal with than teaching creationism. Wait for it. Outstanding!
Cookie
11-17-2009, 03:41 PM
What are you saying?
We should let them get away with this now because of we don't it will only get worse?
I fail to see your point.
My point was, taking away the wall between church and state, and we will see churches and their leaders exerting their will on government. The first thing reinstated will be prayer in schools. Creationism will taught alongside evolution in classrooms. This is the tip of the iceberg Moby, because the church is still pissed that secularism has the public school system firmly within it's grasp.
I explained this in my earlier posts...
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xav8terx
11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
My point was, taking away the wall between church and state, and we will see churches and their leaders exerting their will on government. The first thing reinstated will be prayer in schools. Creationism will taught alongside evolution in classrooms. This is the tip of the iceberg Moby, because the church is still pissed that secularism has the public school system firmly within it's grasp.
I explained this in my earlier posts...
We're not seeing this now? Take a good look in court rooms, government building, our money...even some schools. Hell "The Family"; look those fuckin douche bags up.
MintJulep
11-17-2009, 04:38 PM
We're not seeing this now? Take a good look in court rooms, government building, our money...even some schools. Hell "The Family"; look those fuckin douche bags up.Of course not. That's absurd. People are excoriated for saying Merry Christmas or wearing a Santa suit to a "holiday" party.
In other words, you ain't seen nothing yet.
MintJulep
11-17-2009, 04:39 PM
"The Family"; .Yes, I've heard all about that dreamed up fairy tale. :lmao2:
xav8terx
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Yes, I've heard all about that dreamed up fairy tale. :lmao2:
You off your meds again or just really that fuckin dense?
John Galt
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Do you remember the flack from a while ago about the state that voted to teach creationism in the classroom? You start taxing churches and you'll have a lot more to deal with than teaching creationism. Wait for it.
Not if we charge all the non profits property taxes. I'm not singling out the Church.
Most/All tax exempts take advantage of their status, to reap huge rewards.
xav8terx
11-17-2009, 04:43 PM
Of course not. That's absurd. People are excoriated for saying Merry Christmas or wearing a Santa suit to a "holiday" party.
In other words, you ain't seen nothing yet.
And who is that? Was it you or Hannity?
MintJulep
11-17-2009, 04:44 PM
You off your meds again or just really that fuckin dense?It's a story written by a paranoid moonbat. IOW, the status quo in moonbats.
John Galt
11-17-2009, 04:45 PM
Property taxes represent a portion of each state's operating budget each year.
http://positivearticles.com/blog/3274/where-does-the-property-tax-money-go/
snip...
When you pay your property tax, it is paid to the clerk’s office where it is then placed into a special account until it is divided up between school districts, city and townships, and the county. There is a portion of the tax dollars that is directed to other districts, which might include a nursing home owned by the city, county, or something similar that requires tax dollars to operate. Fire, ambulance, parks, libraries, and others receive a portion of the tax dollars as well. How much each group receives is different for every state and community. However, the highest pay goes to the school districts and then the city, county and townships
xav8terx
11-17-2009, 04:48 PM
It's a story written by a paranoid moonbat. IOW, the status quo in moonbats.
Both??? Holy shit, seek help now!!!
Binky
11-17-2009, 04:50 PM
Men of God are supposed to be faithful and now you're defending child molesters?
Men of God, are suppose to be above reproach. But alas, they are all human and subject to make some very huge mistakes. Maybe if the priests had the right to marry, they wouldn't have the problems they do. But then again, even married individuals have deviant behaviors. And being a child molestor is a huge one.
Cookie
11-17-2009, 08:14 PM
Not if we charge all the non profits property taxes. I'm not singling out the Church.
Most/All tax exempts take advantage of their status, to reap huge rewards.
Equal misery for all. Is that it DEEEZ?
Tonight's local news showed a local food pantry with people in line for the Thanksgiving meal give away. It was in the 30's outside today, yet old, sick people were in line from 3 am this morning. Women with small children; there were over 1,000 standing in that line at any given time today. The need was great.
Maybe you think it's fair to have that pantry paying property taxes and income taxes, but it only means they will have less money to help the needy. Personally, I think the highest and best use of my money is to let them feed the hungry, rather than giving it to the government to piss away on some stupid project.
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