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View Full Version : Thailand 'gets tough' with Hmong


Bill Cosby
11-11-2009, 07:05 PM
Did the American betray or just abandon many of the Hmong???? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8062058.stm)

For the past four years, thousands of ethnic Hmong, who have fled from their homes in the mountains of northern Laos, have been living a precarious existence in the Thai province of Phetchabun.

After initially trying to survive in the forest, they were moved by the Thai military into a camp, to which access is strictly controlled.

Almost all outside agencies are banned from entry.

Repeated requests by the UN refugee agency to be allowed to screen them and assess their claims that they face persecution or death if sent back to Laos have been refused by the Thai authorities.

Extreme stress

Every now and again groups have been forcibly repatriated to Laos; the rest remain trapped, living in constant fear.

One group of 158, which includes many children, has been held for two and a half years in a cramped detention centre in the border town of Nong Khai. Others are being held in jail.

[The Thai authorities] have been trying to get MSF to stop food distribution to the people in order to punish them
Gilles Isard, MSF

The only international organisation allowed to help the almost 5,000 Hmong in Phetchabun has been Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF), which has been their sole source of food and healthcare. Now MSF has decided to pull out, citing unacceptable pressure from the Thai military.

"We can no longer work in a camp where the military use arbitrary imprisonment of influential leaders to pressure refugees into a 'voluntary' return to Laos," said Gilles Isard, head of the MSF mission in Thailand.

"Also there are pressures on MSF. For instance they have been trying to get MSF to stop food distribution to the people in order to punish them."
Map

MSF staff describe the Hmong as living under extreme psychological stress, because of the constant threat of repatriation. Some have threatened to kill themselves, rather than return. Many carry bullet wounds; they say they fear retribution by the Lao communist authorities if they go back.

MSF has been running a health clinic just outside the camp, but says the Hmong stopped coming after they were forced to report to a Thai military checkpoint first.

The checkpoints are where the Thai authorities sometimes whisk Hmong away for deportation.

More than 1,500 have already been forced back over the border. Their fate is still uncertain, as the Lao government refuses to allow international agencies to monitor the returnees.

According to Amnesty International, 20 women and girls sent back to Laos in December 2005 were detained for 18 months, and some were tortured.

Other returnees have vanished.

Bombarded

The Hmong are a large hill tribe, who inhabit mountainous areas of south-east Asia.

During the Vietnam War, many of them were recruited into a secret army run by the CIA, to help fight against the advancing communist Pathet Lao forces. When the Americans pulled out, the Hmong found themselves on the losing side.

Joua Va Yang, the BBC guide held in a Thai jail awaiting deportation
Joua Va Yang holds a photo of Ruhi Hamid, who made the BBC film

They were subjected to harsh treatment by the new communist government. Some started a desperate armed campaign against the government, which they have kept up intermittently until now. Lao forces have responded in kind, at times bombarding Hmong areas from the ground and air.

Among the Hmong leaders is Joua Va Yang, who in 2004 helped guide a BBC team into a rebel area to make the first TV documentary about the plight of the Hmong who were trapped there.

He is now being held in jail in Phetchabun, after being arrested at the camp.

The Thai military say he has volunteered to go back to Laos, despite an obvious risk of retribution over his role in the documentary. No-one has been allowed to see him to hear his own views.

Fate sealed?

So why is Thailand taking such a hard line against the fleeing Hmong? Many would be eligible for resettlement in the United States, if only they could be screened by agencies like the UNHCR.

There is no easy answer. Over the years Thailand has had to host millions of displaced people from conflicts in neighbouring countries. Some have been allowed to stay. Others have been kept in camps, like the Hmong, where access to international agencies is tightly restricted.

Hmong family living in a rebel-held area of Laos
Little information has come out from those already sent back to Laos

The army, a very powerful player in Thai politics, routinely demands a big say over how they are treated.

Earlier this year military units were accused of towing asylum-seekers from Burma's Rohingya minority out to sea, and casting them adrift with little food and water.

The military appears to view some groups as a security threat, or as an unwanted complication in their ties with neighbouring armies.

But the fate of the Hmong seems sealed.

The Thai Foreign Minister, Kasit Piromya, told the BBC that he had already agreed with his Lao counterparts to send them back soon.

On a recent trip to Washington DC, the famously loose-tongued Mr Kasit said one Hmong group would be allowed to go to the US - only to back-track after the Lao government protested.

When asked why no international screening or monitoring of the Hmong was being allowed by Thailand, Mr Kasit would only say that such screening was unnecessary, and that he was prepared to trust the assurances of the Lao government.

Medecins Sans Frontieres, the UNHCR and many other agencies strongly disagree.

foxbaron
11-13-2009, 06:16 PM
We owe the Hmong and we owe them big time.

Our country abandoned them after Vietnam and we should be ashamed for having done so.

But what the hell its just another genocide program against a certain group of people, so who really cares. We can't see them from here, can we?

But, hey thanks to all you liberals and war protesters we got the hell out of Vietnam in such a hurry we had no choice but to abandon those who helped us. Another reason why people trust us so much when we give them our word that we'll be there for the duration.

Maybe Iraq and Afghanistan is where we once again live up to our promises and show the world that we really do mean what we say. Maybe then people over there will stop hedging their bets and actually start standing behind us instead of planning how to stay alive after we pick up and leave.

Once the Hmong aligned themselves with the USA they became "ours" and leaving them like we did is the same as if we left our own soldiers behind.

Bill Cosby
11-13-2009, 07:48 PM
I see Hmong all the time...

Yea I guess if us liberals hadn't brought the war to an end they would all be chilling somewhere???

No they would all likely be dead...............

They were already outcasts in South East Asia.......... They became mercenaries for the loZing side ..... That loZing became a precarious, unsustainable situation, for them...

When they signed up to fight their traditional enemies on our behalf they were not guaranteed/promised a home in Fresno... But I think we owe them something more then this....

Many have made there way here so many have been helped but the USA needs to give the Laotian gov some intensives to treat them as the do their other citizens.

Since that is the most bombed place on earth it should be easy to toss them a few bones...

foxbaron
11-13-2009, 09:09 PM
I see Hmong all the time...

Yea I guess if us liberals hadn't brought the war to an end they would all be chilling somewhere???

No they would all likely be dead...............

They were already outcasts in South East Asia.......... They became mercenaries for the loZing side ..... That loZing became a precarious, unsustainable situation, for them...

When they signed up to fight their traditional enemies on our behalf they were not guaranteed/promised a home in Fresno... But I think we owe them something more then this....

Many have made there way here so many have been helped but the USA needs to give the Laotian gov some intensives to treat them as the do their other citizens.

Since that is the most bombed place on earth it should be easy to toss them a few bones...

You would think so but don't count on it.

Bill Cosby
11-13-2009, 11:07 PM
Why not??..............

foxbaron
11-14-2009, 06:12 PM
Why not??..............


Because no oe gives a shit

Bill Cosby
11-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Yep..............

It is on the front burner here as there are a lot of Hmong... They got some national hype when "the general" was planning on going back to Laos & kick some ass......

foxbaron
11-14-2009, 07:58 PM
Yep..............

It is on the front burner here as there are a lot of Hmong... They got some national hype when "the general" was planning on going back to Laos & kick some ass......


I'm all for going back to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and kicking some ass, but only if we let the troops do it and leave politics out of it.

I'm tired of us "going to war" and then treating it as a "police action". If we have to go to War then let's do it and do it on the scale we did WWII and "get it done". We can apologize for our mistakes and clean up afterwards.

Every conflict we have gotten involved in since WWII we half stepped thru it and really acomplished nothing. War should be the last resort but when we decide to go forward then it has to be as a nation united for one purpose and one purpose only, TO WIN, at whatever costs necessary. And that means, all citizens participate, no exceptions, no draft deferments, no excuses. Do it and get it done.

Bill Cosby
11-14-2009, 08:22 PM
I'm all for going back to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and kicking some ass, but only if we let the troops do it and leave politics out of it.

I'm tired of us "going to war" and then treating it as a "police action". If we have to go to War then let's do it and do it on the scale we did WWII and "get it done". We can apologize for our mistakes and clean up afterwards.

Every conflict we have gotten involved in since WWII we half stepped thru it and really acomplished nothing. War should be the last resort but when we decide to go forward then it has to be as a nation united for one purpose and one purpose only, TO WIN, at whatever costs necessary. And that means, all citizens participate, no exceptions, no draft deferments, no excuses. Do it and get it done.

Lets see now..............

You wanna go back to Vietnam, Cambodia & Laos to kill ppl, pick up were we left off- but do it right this time... I guess kill all of them???

Then you go on to say war should be a last resort???:lmao2:

:banghead:

Those wars were half assed in your opinion, maybe cause we should not have been there to begin w/..............

foxbaron
11-14-2009, 09:28 PM
I just like to finish what we start.

And yeah, war is the last resort, so let's do it right next time.

Bill Cosby
11-14-2009, 09:45 PM
I just like to finish what we start.

And yeah, war is the last resort, so let's do it right next time.

Well since that is not really defined it really means nothing to me...

Vietnam war was finished- we lost....

You assume we can/should always win............ No one always wins. Ever..

foxbaron
11-14-2009, 09:51 PM
Well since that is not really defined it really means nothing to me...

Vietnam war was finished- we lost....

You assume we can/should always win............ No one always wins. Ever..


WE didn't lose, we quit.

Had they let the military handle it and kept politics out of it we would have won it hands down.

Bill Cosby
11-14-2009, 10:44 PM
WE didn't lose, we quit.

Had they let the military handle it and kept politics out of it we would have won it hands down.

Funny how loZing & quieting have a lot in common.......:rolleyes:

In dumbocracies the politicians are in control not the military... So is that a problem???

foxbaron
11-16-2009, 03:55 PM
It is a lack of having the wisdom to let your military fight your wars.

Bill Cosby
11-16-2009, 07:06 PM
It is a lack of having the wisdom to let your military fight your wars.

Sorry but you are going to have civil control/oversight if you or I like it or not...

They will set the goal & define the parameters & the militarist goal is to achieve it..

Lincoln won the war, not Grant........:thumbsup:

Truman fired good generals to............

I think I understand your point but I am not sure I would agree w/ your conclusions... Short of nukes they would have over a million men there, the entire country north & south would likely been denuded & we would still be drafting boys to go there & die for nothing...:thumbsup: