Republican Gomorrah: Max Blumenthal

[MintJulep]

And you people kill in the name of your false prophet as well, what is your point. Mine is, religions are one in the same; it's just a matter of how well you read. You can’t sit here and tell us that Christians haven’t done the same. People will read into what ever they want and twist it to fit their fucked up opinions…look at how many different flavors the bible offers. You don’t like this one well tell us what you think should happen and another one is born.Perhaps you can give me a link to Christian honor killings or strapping bombs on their 5 year olds? You've produced nothing to support your claim. And that is because it is false.

[Brian-W]

You made the claim we live in a Christian nation identical to Islamic theocracies. The point here is the Christian POV is not enforced by law, unlike the Islamic Shariah theocracies who stone their daughters, oppress women and kill to convert others to Islam.

Show me a Christian in the year 2009 who has killed their own child or strapped a bomb on him/her in order to kill the "infidel", non-believer.

Uh, no. I don't think we live in a Christian nation. However, there are many christians who do. They claim that our laws are somehow based on the 10 commandments but dodge and squirm when pressed to explain which ones.

There are plenty of christians who kill their own children in this country. I don't know of any of them personally. But I've read about them time and time again. But when it happens, Christians put the blame on drugs or some other scapegoat.

Mary Winkler, was the local woman who shot her Pastor husband in the back after years of physical and mental abuse at the hand of a self righteous religious nut.

I also know of a deeply religious Pentecostal family in which the father(preacher) molested three of his girls and used the bible to keep them silent. You know, that whole thing about honoring thy mother and father(old testament)

There was also the recent case of a local pastor(Brian Riley) who was molesting an Asian exchange student living in his home. He was just trying to show her the pleasures of Jesus and because of her anti-christian roots, the ungrateful bitch reported him to the authorities.

[Brian-W]

It is a matter of law, and there are none in existence to support the claim the US is identical to an Islamic theocracy. Just moonbat hysteria.

I have never claimed that. You're just twisting my words.

I said there is no difference between Christianity and Islam other than dogma and choice of prophets

Both religions are full of shit.

[Boogie man]

Uh, no. I don't think we live in a Christian nation. However, there are many christians who do. They claim that our laws are somehow based on the 10 commandments but dodge and squirm when pressed to explain which ones.

There are plenty of christians who kill their own children in this country. I don't know of any of them personally. But I've read about them time and time again. But when it happens, Christians put the blame on drugs or some other scapegoat.

Mary Winkler, was the local woman who shot her Pastor husband in the back after years of physical and mental abuse at the hand of a self righteous religious nut.

I also know of a deeply religious Pentecostal family in which the father(preacher) molested three of his girls and used the bible to keep them silent. You know, that whole thing about honoring thy mother and father(old testament)

There was also the recent case of a local pastor(Brian Riley) who was molesting an Asian exchange student living in his home. He was just trying to show her the pleasures of Jesus and because of her anti-christian roots, the ungrateful bitch reported him to the authorities.

Those people are nuts. What they did is not Christian doctrine. What terrorists do is right from the mouth of Mohammed and his instructions.

Can you see the difference?

[Brian-W]

Those people are nuts. What they did is not Christian doctrine. What terrorists do is right from the mouth of Mohammed and his instructions.

Can you see the difference?

No, I don't see the difference.

The Bible makes provisions for selling your child into slavery and also says that it's ok to stone an unruly child.

The point is, that people can use their religion to justify the worst behavior imaginable. And With Christianity, all you have to do is get on your knees and recite some horseshit and you get a clean slate.

[xav8terx]

Perhaps you can give me a link to Christian honor killings or strapping bombs on their 5 year olds? You've produced nothing to support your claim. And that is because it is false.


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I know you wont read this but here it is anyway.

http://immigrationmexicanamerican.blogspot.com/2009/02/hate-crime-christian-conservative.html

[xav8terx]

Those people are nuts. What they did is not Christian doctrine. What terrorists do is right from the mouth of Mohammed and his instructions.

Can you see the difference?


Some sources of that claim please.

[Boogie man]

No, I don't see the difference.

The Bible makes provisions for selling your child into slavery and also says that it's ok to stone an unruly child.

The point is, that people can use their religion to justify the worst behavior imaginable. And With Christianity, all you have to do is get on your knees and recite some horseshit and you get a clean slate.

Christians do not practice the laws and rituals of the Old Testament. Christians live by the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus.

Muslims live by the teachings of Mohammed.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is of both religions. What we are discussing is your claim that Christians are just like terrorist muslims and your claim doesn't hold water.

[xav8terx]

Christians do not practice the laws and rituals of the Old Testament. Christians live by the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus.

Muslims live by the teachings of Mohammed.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinion is of both religions. What we are discussing is your claim that Christians are just like terrorist muslims and your claim doesn't hold water.


So what are abortion clinic killings?

[Boogie man]

Some sources of that claim please.

Read the teachings of Jesus and then read the Koran's teachings of Mohammed. Jesus was a man of love and peace. Mohammed was a man of war and hate.

[Boogie man]

So what are abortion clinic killings?

Abortion clinic killings are murder which Jesus was against. Terrorism is right from the teachings of Mohammed.

[xav8terx]

Abortion clinic killings are murder which Jesus was against. Terrorism is right from the teachings of Mohammed.

Again source that. I want the passage from the book that states that, not just your brainwashed opinion.

[MintJulep]

Again source that. I want the passage from the book that states that, not just your brainwashed opinion.Thou shall not kill.

[Boogie man]

Again source that. I want the passage from the book that states that, not just your brainwashed opinion.

I think we'll soon find out which one of us is brainwashed. Idiot.

O believers, take not Christians and Jews as friends,there are friends of each other.Whoso of you makes them his firends is one of them. God guides not the people of he evildoers. Yet thou seest those in whose hearts is sickness vying with one another to come to them, saying 'We fear lest aturn of fortune should smite us.' But it may be that God will bring the victory, or some commandment from Him, and then they will find themselves for that they kept secret within them, remorseful, and the believers will say, "What, are these the ones who swore by God most earnest oathss that they were with you? Their works ahve failed; now they are losers.'


Now since you claim that I'm brainwashed, I want you to show us some comparable words from Jesus.

[xav8terx]

Thou shall not kill.


But you christians still do. What’s up with that? Now, please provide a link that backs up this ridiculous claim that murder is condoned by the Koran.

[Boogie man]

But you christians still do. What’s up with that? Now, please provide a link that backs up this ridiculous claim that murder is condoned by the Koran.

The original Hewbrew text translated "kill" means to murder. When Christians murder they are tried and put in jail just like anyone else.

[Boogie man]

But you christians still do. What’s up with that? Now, please provide a link that backs up this ridiculous claim that murder is condoned by the Koran.

"Behead the infidel". That is right from the Koran.

[MintJulep]

The original Hewbrew text translated "kill" means to murder. When Christians murder they are tried and put in jail just like anyone else.And Muslims dance in the streets, throw a party and hand out candy to their children.

q-9JpRytCx0

[Boogie man]

Big question-‘is the beheading Islamic?’

Yes, beheading is, of course, an Islamic justice to the infidels, criminals, and sinners. This cruel way of killing infidels is sanctioned by Islamic Sharia laws. Denial to the grotesque beheading of western Kaffirs by those Islamic terrorists (in Iraq) that it is not Islamic is yet another clear sign of ignorance, hypocrisy, or intellectual dishonesty by the defenders of Islam. Islamists are not ready to take the burden of ugly reality of the fact that human beheading is 100% consistent with the sacred Islamic Jihadi practices. Hatreds towards other religion such as Jews, Christians, Hindus and other polytheists are the ardent teachings of Islamic holy book Qur’an. Beheading was practiced by the Prophet Muhammad himself during the 7th century period of Islam and by the most Islamic rulers thereafter.

Saddest thing is no Islamists will ever tell you the truth about the intimate relation of beheading in Islam! Following the recent beheadings of Americans and other foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, the U.S. press turned to various experts to identify a precedent in the Quran or Islamic history for this kind of gory murder. Look what were the answers by some erudite but hypocritical Mullahs! Imam Muhammad Adam El-Sheik, co-founder and chief cleric at the Dar Al Hijrah Mosque at falls Church, VA told to the USA today: “Beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran at all". Yvonne Haddad, a professor at the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University has agreed with the above Imam and added (to New York Newsday): "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies cutting off a person's head.” You go ask any Imam or mullah in the US, you will come up with the same lies again and again.

Obviously, had it not been the sacred custom of ancient Islam, beheading would be quite unnecessary method to kill enemies by those Islamic terrorists in Iraq. Those Islamic terrorists could easily kill their infidel enemies (such as Daniel Pearl, Nich berg, Kim Sun II, Paul Johnson etc.) by a simple bullet. But those militants actually wanted to give an Islamic veneer to the infidel slayings -because killing by beheading is considered most brutal and utterly degrading, and only western infidels deserve this type of brutal killing. In fact they only tried to follow the footsteps Prophet Muhammad and devoutly followed the Allah’s order in the Qur’an. Holy Quran is replete with the harsh verses which directly order Muslims to behead Kaffirs/infidels. Let me cite some sample of those verses below:

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”



9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

2:191- “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”

5: 45-- “We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear. Toth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.”

2:193- “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

8:17-It is not ye who Slew them; it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it was not Thy act, but God’s…..” (Allah is a real merciful indeed!)

How can Islamic Mullahs blatantly hide these authentic Quarnic verses? The above Qur’anic scriptures incited early Muslim Jihadis to behead thousands of non-Muslims and other infidels. These same Quranic verses may still inciting devout/fanatical Muslims of modern days. During the early period of Islam, especially during Islamic expeditions by Prophet Muhammad himself while he was in Medina, thousands of infidels were brutally beheaded by the Jihadis. Below is a case in point collected from the authentic Islamic history to use as an example of Islamic beheading.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SKM40715.htm

[xav8terx]

I think we'll soon find out which one of us is brainwashed. Idiot.

O believers, take not Christians and Jews as friends,there are friends of each other.Whoso of you makes them his firends is one of them. God guides not the people of he evildoers. Yet thou seest those in whose hearts is sickness vying with one another to come to them, saying 'We fear lest aturn of fortune should smite us.' But it may be that God will bring the victory, or some commandment from Him, and then they will find themselves for that they kept secret within them, remorseful, and the believers will say, "What, are these the ones who swore by God most earnest oathss that they were with you? Their works ahve failed; now they are losers.'


Now since you claim that I'm brainwashed, I want you to show us some comparable words from Jesus.



Link please.

[Brian-W]

Christians do not practice the laws and rituals of the Old Testament. Christians live by the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus.


I'm sorry to inform you that many of your Christian betheren are unable to let go of the old testament and it's attrocities.

[Boogie man]

Qur'an (5:51)

[Brian-W]

Thou shall not kill.

Is there a built in exception for bombing muslims?

If you don't actually put your hands on the person you're killing and use technology instead, does that somehow exempt you?

[Boogie man]

I'm sorry to inform you that many of your Christian betheren are unable to let go of the old testament and it's attrocities.

I'm sorry to inform you that you are misinformed. Christians commit crimes just like anyone else and that includes Muslims.

Keep in mind my point. The teachings of Jesus and Mohammed are the criteria here. The followers of Mohammed are following his teachings. The followers of Jesus who commit murder are not following his teachings.

That is what you will not admit.

[Brian-W]

I'm sorry to inform you that you are misinformed. Christians commit crimes just like anyone else and that includes Muslims.

Keep in mind my point. The teachings of Jesus and Mohammed are the criteria here. The followers of Mohammed are following his teachings. The followers of Jesus who commit murder are not following his teachings.

That is what you will not admit.

No way, Jesus-ism is the perfect and true religion and his TRUE followers would never commit such attrocities.

[xav8terx]

http://www.karamah.org/docs/dakake_misappropriations.doc


Some Misappropriations of Quranic Verses
by David Dakake
Islamic Research Institute
Washington, D.C.

In this synopsis we shall discuss two verses that have received much “air time” in the post 9/11 media environment.
The first verse appears in chapter 5, verse 51 of the Quran and says, according to the most common English translations,

O, you who believe [in the message of Muhammad], do not take Jews and Christians as awliya’. They are awliya’ to one another, and the one among you who turns to them is of them.
Truly, God does not guide wrongdoing folk.

The word awliya’ (sing. “wali”), which we left above in the original Arabic, has been commonly translated into English as “friends.” Given this translation, the verse appears to be a very clear statement opposing “normative” or “kindly relations” between Muslims and Jews and Christians, however, when we look at the traditional Quranic commentaries of Medieval times, which discuss the events surrounding the revelation of this verse, the modern translation becomes suspect.

Put within its proper historical context, the word awliya’ here does not mean “friends” at all. While it is true that one of the meanings of awliya’ is “friends,” it also has additional meanings such as “guardians,” “protectors” and even “legal guardians.” Interestingly enough, we find that when we consult the traditional commentaries on the Quran we are told that this verse was revealed at a particularly delicate moment in the life of the early Muslim community, and here it is necessary to explain, to a certain extent, what was the existential situation of the Muslims at this time in Arabia so as to situate verse 5:51 within its proper circumstances.

Before 5:51 was revealed, the Prophet of Islam and the Muslims had only recently migrated as a community from Makkah to Medina, some 400 km to the north. They had done so, according to Islamic histories, due to the persecution to which they were subjected at the hands of their fellow tribesmen and relatives in Makkah. Most Makkans worshipped various idols as “gods” and feared the rise of interest in the message of Muhammad within the city, even though Muhammad was himself a son of Makkah. The
Makkans feared the growing presence of the Muslims because the Muslims claimed that there was only one true God, who had no physical image, and who required of men: virtue, generosity and fair and kind treatment of the weaker members of society. This simple message, in fact, threatened to overturn the social order of Makkah, based as it was upon the worship of multiple gods and the privilege of the strong and the wealthy. It also threatened to disrupt the economic benefits of this privilege, the annual pilgrimage season when people from all over the Arabian peninsula would come to worship the many idols/gods at the Ka`bah—a cubical structure which the Quran claims was originally built by Abraham and his son, Ishmael, as a temple to the one God, before the decadence of religion in Arabia.

The message of Islam threatened to replace the social and economic system of Makkan polytheism, with the worship of the one God, Who—as in the stories of the Old Testament—would not allow that others be worshipped alongside Him. In this difficult environment the Prophet of Islam preached peacefully his message of monotheism and virtue, but he and his small band of followers were eventually driven from the city by torture, threats of assassination and various other forms of humiliation and abuse. The Muslims then migrated to the city of Medina where the Prophet had been invited to come and live in safety with his followers and where the main Arab tribes of the city had willingly accepted his message.

According to the commentary tradition in Islam, it was not long after this migration to Medina that verse 5:51 was revealed. Specifically, we are told that this verse came down around the time of the battle of Badr (2 A.H. / 623 A.D.) or perhaps after the battle of Uhud (3 A.H. / 625 A.D.). In these early days, even though the Muslim community constituted no more than perhaps a few hundred people and had already left the city of Makkah, yet the Makkans continued to confront them militarily, and these two early battles, as well as others, were crucial events in the history of the early Islamic community.

Militarily, the Makkans were a far more powerful force than the Muslims, and in addition, the Makkans had allies throughout Arabia. Given the small numbers of the Muslims, the Prophet and his fledgling community faced the real possibility of utter annihilation should they lose any of these early conflicts. Within this highly charged environment some members of the Muslim community wanted to make individual alliances with other non-Muslim tribes in the region. Within the city of Medina there were Jewish tribes who constituted a powerful presence in the town and who were on good terms with the Makkans, and to the north of the city there were also numerous Christian Arab tribes. Some Muslims saw the possibility of taking alliances with one or more of these groups as a way of guaranteeing their own survival should the Makkan armies ultimately triumph. This was the stark reality of Arabia at that time, that it was only through the protection of one’s tribe or one’s alliances with other tribes or clans that one’s own individual security was insured.

From the perspective of Islam, however, the Prophet realized that a young community, faced with great peril, could not allow such “dissension” in the ranks of the faithful as would be created by various individuals taking bonds of loyalty with other groups not committed to the Islamic message. Indeed, from the Islamic point of view such actions, had they been allowed, would have been a kind of communal suicide that would have seriously undermined Muslim unity, broken the morale of the community and perhaps caused the many individuals taking such alliances to lack fortitude in the face of the clear and present danger of the Makkan armies and their allies.

Keeping all these historical issues in mind, it becomes obvious that the translation of awliya’ as “friends” is wrong and that it should be rendered as “protectors” or “guardians” in the strict military sense of these terms. The verse should be read as, “Do not take Christians and Jews as your protectors. They are protectors to one another....” This is the message of the verse, and the appropriateness of this understanding is supported not only by the historical context for its revelation but also by the fact that nowhere does the Quran oppose simple kindness between peoples, as is clear from other Quranic verses such as,

God does not forbid that you should deal kindly and justly with those who do not fight you for the sake of [your] religion or drive you out of your homes. Truly, God loves those
who are just. [60:8]
and
The good deed and the evil deed are not equal. Repel [the evil deed] with one that is better. Then truly the one, between you and he is enmity, shall become as a bosom friend. [41:34]


Another verse which has caused much confusion is 9:5. This is the first Quranic verse mentioned in the fatwa of Usama bin Ladin. It is also a verse which has been referred to by Reverend Franklin Graham in his comments about the “wicked, violent” nature of Islam. Verse 9:5 says,

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the polytheists (mushrikun) wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem [of war].

Contrary to what may be thought from a literal reading of this translation, this verse is not a kind of carte blanche to attack any and all non-Muslim peoples. Here again the issue of historical context is so crucial for understanding.

Verse 9:5 was revealed specifically in relation to the Muslims fighting the idolaters of Makkah. The Makkan idolaters are referred to in the Quran by the technical term “mushrikun” (sing. “mushrik”). This term comes from a three letter Arabic root “sh-r-k” which means “to associate” or “take a partner unto something,” so that the word mushrikun literally means, “those who take a partner [unto God],” that is to say, “polytheists” or “idolaters.” It should be noted, therefore, that the injunction in this verse to fight against the “polytheists” does not pertain to either Jews or Christians from the point of view of Islamic Law. Interestingly, Jews and Christians are never referred to within the Quran by the term mushrikun. They have, in fact, a very different “status” or “title” according to the Quran which, when not addressing them as individual communities, often refers to the two groups together by the technical term, ahl al-kitab or “People of the Book,” meaning people who have been given a book or scripture by God other than the Muslims. Given these facts, it is interesting that this verse should be cited by Bin Ladin in the context of a declaration calling on Muslims to fight Jews and Christians, particularly since this verse says nothing about Jews, Christians or the People of the Book in general. This being the case, the fatwa’s use of 9:5 represents a misappropriation of this verse to an end other than the one intended from its established historical context of fighting the “polytheist” Arabs, who were neither Christians nor Jews.

Given this context, this verse does not, in fact, show Islam to be a “wicked, violent” religion, as Franklin Graham would like us to believe, but shows that Islam gave to Muslims the right to defend themselves against those who would not let them worship God, a right, incidentally, which is protected by the United States Constitution.

We hope that this short analysis may help to demonstrate that the practice today of quoting Quranic verses as justification for sweeping generalizations about the Islamic faith is actually a far more complex matter than may be immediately apparent and requires a deep knowledge of both Quranic commentary and Islamic history. The very least that can be said is that it is a matter more complex than the rhetoric of extremists on all sides of this issue. We pray that this discussion may be something of an opening for greater understanding between all people of faith, people for whom the truth, and not rhetoric, must be paramount, precisely because in all religious traditions truth belongs to God.

[xav8terx]

Big question-‘is the beheading Islamic?’

Yes, beheading is, of course, an Islamic justice to the infidels, criminals, and sinners. This cruel way of killing infidels is sanctioned by Islamic Sharia laws. Denial to the grotesque beheading of western Kaffirs by those Islamic terrorists (in Iraq) that it is not Islamic is yet another clear sign of ignorance, hypocrisy, or intellectual dishonesty by the defenders of Islam. Islamists are not ready to take the burden of ugly reality of the fact that human beheading is 100% consistent with the sacred Islamic Jihadi practices. Hatreds towards other religion such as Jews, Christians, Hindus and other polytheists are the ardent teachings of Islamic holy book Qur’an. Beheading was practiced by the Prophet Muhammad himself during the 7th century period of Islam and by the most Islamic rulers thereafter.

Saddest thing is no Islamists will ever tell you the truth about the intimate relation of beheading in Islam! Following the recent beheadings of Americans and other foreigners in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, the U.S. press turned to various experts to identify a precedent in the Quran or Islamic history for this kind of gory murder. Look what were the answers by some erudite but hypocritical Mullahs! Imam Muhammad Adam El-Sheik, co-founder and chief cleric at the Dar Al Hijrah Mosque at falls Church, VA told to the USA today: “Beheadings are not mentioned in the Koran at all". Yvonne Haddad, a professor at the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University has agreed with the above Imam and added (to New York Newsday): "There is absolutely nothing in Islam that justifies cutting off a person's head.” You go ask any Imam or mullah in the US, you will come up with the same lies again and again.

Obviously, had it not been the sacred custom of ancient Islam, beheading would be quite unnecessary method to kill enemies by those Islamic terrorists in Iraq. Those Islamic terrorists could easily kill their infidel enemies (such as Daniel Pearl, Nich berg, Kim Sun II, Paul Johnson etc.) by a simple bullet. But those militants actually wanted to give an Islamic veneer to the infidel slayings -because killing by beheading is considered most brutal and utterly degrading, and only western infidels deserve this type of brutal killing. In fact they only tried to follow the footsteps Prophet Muhammad and devoutly followed the Allah’s order in the Qur’an. Holy Quran is replete with the harsh verses which directly order Muslims to behead Kaffirs/infidels. Let me cite some sample of those verses below:

Quranic verses that dictate beheading Kaffirs:

5:33-“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution (by beheading), or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;”

8:12- “I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

47:4- “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”



9:123: “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

2:191- “Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.”

5: 45-- “We ordained therein for them: “Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear. Toth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal.”

2:193- “Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah”

9:29- "Fight those who do not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of the Book, (Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth (Islam) until they pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.”

8:17-It is not ye who Slew them; it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it was not Thy act, but God’s…..” (Allah is a real merciful indeed!)

How can Islamic Mullahs blatantly hide these authentic Quarnic verses? The above Qur’anic scriptures incited early Muslim Jihadis to behead thousands of non-Muslims and other infidels. These same Quranic verses may still inciting devout/fanatical Muslims of modern days. During the early period of Islam, especially during Islamic expeditions by Prophet Muhammad himself while he was in Medina, thousands of infidels were brutally beheaded by the Jihadis. Below is a case in point collected from the authentic Islamic history to use as an example of Islamic beheading.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/SKM40715.htm


Christian crusaders didnt kill in the name of god?

[MintJulep]

Is there a built in exception for bombing muslims?

If you don't actually put your hands on the person you're killing and use technology instead, does that somehow exempt you?Again, this is not a Christian nation and our military does not operate under any Judeo-Christians laws or doctrine.

Any Christians who kill are nuts, are not following the doctrine of Jesus. They are arrested in the US if they kill their children or others and sentenced as any other criminal. Muslim terrorists are lauded as heroes and their murders, celebrated.

[MintJulep]

Christian crusaders didnt kill in the name of god?Why sure. That is specifically why I asked for examples in the year 2009 -- and you had none.

Christianity has evolved; Islam has not.

[xav8terx]

Why sure. That is specifically why I asked for examples in the year 2009 -- and you had none.

Christianity has evolved; Islam has not.

So you didnt read the link i posted...typical.

Dont blame a religion when you refuse to understand.

[Brian-W]

Christian crusaders didnt kill in the name of god?

YES.....And if they could, they still would.

[xav8terx]

YES.....And if they could, they still would.

Some still do.

[Brian-W]

Some still do.

Yes they do. But those are "rogue" christians. lmao

[xav8terx]

Yes they do. But those are "rogue" christians. lmao


True i forget about that. Christians who kill in the name of god aren't real christians. Muslims who kill in the name of Allah are fanatics...i will try to remember the rules in the future. :thumbsup:

[Brian-W]

True i forget about that. Christians who kill in the name of god aren't real christians. Muslims who kill in the name of Allah are fanatics...i will try to remember the rules in the future. :thumbsup:

Religion of any faith, is dangerous in the wrong hands.

I'll concede that Islam is part of the terrorism problem. But under the right circumstances a Christian leader could easily convince his followers to commit the same acts.

How about Jim Jones as an example? Not all of those people "drunk the kool-aid" willingly. Some of the members had doubts, but were forced to drink it by the more zealous followers. They even poured it down the throats of children while their crying parents watched.

And wasn't a congressman killed at the air-field while trying to escape?

Well, I guess that will teach that godless liberal bastard huh? :lmao2:

[Parade Rain]

The settling of whites in this country and the genocide of the Indians was based on their CHRISTIAN sense of entitlement.

[Brian-W]

The settling of whites in this country and the genocide of the Indians was based on their CHRISTIAN sense of entitlement.

touche' mon frere

[Boogie man]

No way, Jesus-ism is the perfect and true religion and his TRUE followers would never commit such attrocities.

That is your opinion. Now back to comparing Christianity to muslim terrorism.

[Boogie man]

http://www.karamah.org/docs/dakake_misappropriations.doc


Some Misappropriations of Quranic Verses
by David Dakake
Islamic Research Institute
Washington, D.C.

In this synopsis we shall discuss two verses that have received much “air time” in the post 9/11 media environment.
The first verse appears in chapter 5, verse 51 of the Quran and says, according to the most common English translations,

O, you who believe [in the message of Muhammad], do not take Jews and Christians as awliya’. They are awliya’ to one another, and the one among you who turns to them is of them.
Truly, God does not guide wrongdoing folk.

The word awliya’ (sing. “wali”), which we left above in the original Arabic, has been commonly translated into English as “friends.” Given this translation, the verse appears to be a very clear statement opposing “normative” or “kindly relations” between Muslims and Jews and Christians, however, when we look at the traditional Quranic commentaries of Medieval times, which discuss the events surrounding the revelation of this verse, the modern translation becomes suspect.

Put within its proper historical context, the word awliya’ here does not mean “friends” at all. While it is true that one of the meanings of awliya’ is “friends,” it also has additional meanings such as “guardians,” “protectors” and even “legal guardians.” Interestingly enough, we find that when we consult the traditional commentaries on the Quran we are told that this verse was revealed at a particularly delicate moment in the life of the early Muslim community, and here it is necessary to explain, to a certain extent, what was the existential situation of the Muslims at this time in Arabia so as to situate verse 5:51 within its proper circumstances.

Before 5:51 was revealed, the Prophet of Islam and the Muslims had only recently migrated as a community from Makkah to Medina, some 400 km to the north. They had done so, according to Islamic histories, due to the persecution to which they were subjected at the hands of their fellow tribesmen and relatives in Makkah. Most Makkans worshipped various idols as “gods” and feared the rise of interest in the message of Muhammad within the city, even though Muhammad was himself a son of Makkah. The
Makkans feared the growing presence of the Muslims because the Muslims claimed that there was only one true God, who had no physical image, and who required of men: virtue, generosity and fair and kind treatment of the weaker members of society. This simple message, in fact, threatened to overturn the social order of Makkah, based as it was upon the worship of multiple gods and the privilege of the strong and the wealthy. It also threatened to disrupt the economic benefits of this privilege, the annual pilgrimage season when people from all over the Arabian peninsula would come to worship the many idols/gods at the Ka`bah—a cubical structure which the Quran claims was originally built by Abraham and his son, Ishmael, as a temple to the one God, before the decadence of religion in Arabia.

The message of Islam threatened to replace the social and economic system of Makkan polytheism, with the worship of the one God, Who—as in the stories of the Old Testament—would not allow that others be worshipped alongside Him. In this difficult environment the Prophet of Islam preached peacefully his message of monotheism and virtue, but he and his small band of followers were eventually driven from the city by torture, threats of assassination and various other forms of humiliation and abuse. The Muslims then migrated to the city of Medina where the Prophet had been invited to come and live in safety with his followers and where the main Arab tribes of the city had willingly accepted his message.

According to the commentary tradition in Islam, it was not long after this migration to Medina that verse 5:51 was revealed. Specifically, we are told that this verse came down around the time of the battle of Badr (2 A.H. / 623 A.D.) or perhaps after the battle of Uhud (3 A.H. / 625 A.D.). In these early days, even though the Muslim community constituted no more than perhaps a few hundred people and had already left the city of Makkah, yet the Makkans continued to confront them militarily, and these two early battles, as well as others, were crucial events in the history of the early Islamic community.

Militarily, the Makkans were a far more powerful force than the Muslims, and in addition, the Makkans had allies throughout Arabia. Given the small numbers of the Muslims, the Prophet and his fledgling community faced the real possibility of utter annihilation should they lose any of these early conflicts. Within this highly charged environment some members of the Muslim community wanted to make individual alliances with other non-Muslim tribes in the region. Within the city of Medina there were Jewish tribes who constituted a powerful presence in the town and who were on good terms with the Makkans, and to the north of the city there were also numerous Christian Arab tribes. Some Muslims saw the possibility of taking alliances with one or more of these groups as a way of guaranteeing their own survival should the Makkan armies ultimately triumph. This was the stark reality of Arabia at that time, that it was only through the protection of one’s tribe or one’s alliances with other tribes or clans that one’s own individual security was insured.

From the perspective of Islam, however, the Prophet realized that a young community, faced with great peril, could not allow such “dissension” in the ranks of the faithful as would be created by various individuals taking bonds of loyalty with other groups not committed to the Islamic message. Indeed, from the Islamic point of view such actions, had they been allowed, would have been a kind of communal suicide that would have seriously undermined Muslim unity, broken the morale of the community and perhaps caused the many individuals taking such alliances to lack fortitude in the face of the clear and present danger of the Makkan armies and their allies.

Keeping all these historical issues in mind, it becomes obvious that the translation of awliya’ as “friends” is wrong and that it should be rendered as “protectors” or “guardians” in the strict military sense of these terms. The verse should be read as, “Do not take Christians and Jews as your protectors. They are protectors to one another....” This is the message of the verse, and the appropriateness of this understanding is supported not only by the historical context for its revelation but also by the fact that nowhere does the Quran oppose simple kindness between peoples, as is clear from other Quranic verses such as,

God does not forbid that you should deal kindly and justly with those who do not fight you for the sake of [your] religion or drive you out of your homes. Truly, God loves those
who are just. [60:8]
and
The good deed and the evil deed are not equal. Repel [the evil deed] with one that is better. Then truly the one, between you and he is enmity, shall become as a bosom friend. [41:34]


Another verse which has caused much confusion is 9:5. This is the first Quranic verse mentioned in the fatwa of Usama bin Ladin. It is also a verse which has been referred to by Reverend Franklin Graham in his comments about the “wicked, violent” nature of Islam. Verse 9:5 says,

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the polytheists (mushrikun) wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem [of war].

Contrary to what may be thought from a literal reading of this translation, this verse is not a kind of carte blanche to attack any and all non-Muslim peoples. Here again the issue of historical context is so crucial for understanding.

Verse 9:5 was revealed specifically in relation to the Muslims fighting the idolaters of Makkah. The Makkan idolaters are referred to in the Quran by the technical term “mushrikun” (sing. “mushrik”). This term comes from a three letter Arabic root “sh-r-k” which means “to associate” or “take a partner unto something,” so that the word mushrikun literally means, “those who take a partner [unto God],” that is to say, “polytheists” or “idolaters.” It should be noted, therefore, that the injunction in this verse to fight against the “polytheists” does not pertain to either Jews or Christians from the point of view of Islamic Law. Interestingly, Jews and Christians are never referred to within the Quran by the term mushrikun. They have, in fact, a very different “status” or “title” according to the Quran which, when not addressing them as individual communities, often refers to the two groups together by the technical term, ahl al-kitab or “People of the Book,” meaning people who have been given a book or scripture by God other than the Muslims. Given these facts, it is interesting that this verse should be cited by Bin Ladin in the context of a declaration calling on Muslims to fight Jews and Christians, particularly since this verse says nothing about Jews, Christians or the People of the Book in general. This being the case, the fatwa’s use of 9:5 represents a misappropriation of this verse to an end other than the one intended from its established historical context of fighting the “polytheist” Arabs, who were neither Christians nor Jews.

Given this context, this verse does not, in fact, show Islam to be a “wicked, violent” religion, as Franklin Graham would like us to believe, but shows that Islam gave to Muslims the right to defend themselves against those who would not let them worship God, a right, incidentally, which is protected by the United States Constitution.

We hope that this short analysis may help to demonstrate that the practice today of quoting Quranic verses as justification for sweeping generalizations about the Islamic faith is actually a far more complex matter than may be immediately apparent and requires a deep knowledge of both Quranic commentary and Islamic history. The very least that can be said is that it is a matter more complex than the rhetoric of extremists on all sides of this issue. We pray that this discussion may be something of an opening for greater understanding between all people of faith, people for whom the truth, and not rhetoric, must be paramount, precisely because in all religious traditions truth belongs to God.

I've read all of the muslim apologists who attempt to explain away by claiming "context". This is used by all religious cults to explain away textural problems. The facts remain that the Koran is a teaching of hatred and murder. Explain why muslims are murdering christians and Jews in the name of Mohammed.

[Boogie man]

So you didnt read the link i posted...typical.

Dont blame a religion when you refuse to understand.

Looks like we have found the one who is brainwashed. Islam is a murderous religious cult. Your feeble attempt to explain away a few verses as "taken out of context" is nothing more than the typical tactic of apologists for all religious cults.

Explain the context of this verse. "Behead the infidel". Tell me how that is taken out of context.

[Boogie man]

Christian crusaders didnt kill in the name of god?

We are living in the 21st century and dealing with what is happening today. Give us the names of the Christian crusaders who are murdering in the name of Jesus today.

[MintJulep]

We are living in the 21st century and dealing with what is happening today. Give us the names of the Christian crusaders who are murdering in the name of Jesus today.I've been asking that for the last few pages of this thread. You won't get an answer, because there are none. It's the same terrorist loving, moonbat rhetoric about the Crusades and occurrences from hundreds of years ago. The same shit we've heard for the past eight in defense of the darling little "innocent" twerrorists. Hand me a barf bag.

[xav8terx]

I've read all of the muslim apologists who attempt to explain away by claiming "context". This is used by all religious cults to explain away textural problems. The facts remain that the Koran is a teaching of hatred and murder. Explain why muslims are murdering christians and Jews in the name of Mohammed.



Maybe you christians should stop invading their countries. Raping and killing their women and trying to convert their children.

And i dont apologize for any religion...it's all hocus pocus bullshit. Your attemtp to defend your version of death and destruction in the name of the one true god is laughable at best.

[xav8terx]

I've been asking that for the last few pages of this thread. You won't get an answer, because there are none. It's the same terrorist loving, moonbat rhetoric about the Crusades and occurrences from hundreds of years ago. The same shit we've heard for the past eight in defense of the darling little "innocent" twerrorists. Hand me a barf bag.


Who is invading who? Who is taking out one leader, replacing it with another and wash/rinse/repeating the same in the next few years? Stick your terrorist lover bullshit up your racist ass. Stop apologizing for warmongers.


And you have been provided with recent events, it is your fault you refuse to fucking read and accept the truth.

[xav8terx]

We are living in the 21st century and dealing with what is happening today. Give us the names of the Christian crusaders who are murdering in the name of Jesus today.


I provided a link. Stop playing your typical right wing bullshit.

[MintJulep]

I provided a link. Stop playing your typical right wing bullshit. You haven't provided shit. A youtube video produced by another terror lovin moonbat? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test. Produce some legitimate news sources reporting on the mass murder by Christian crusaders in the year 2009 in the same vein as the thousands of mass murders committed by Islamics.

I'll be waiting.

[MintJulep]

Who is invading who? Who is taking out one leader, replacing it with another and wash/rinse/repeating the same in the next few years? Any wars we are involved in are not based on "Christianity", dumbfuck.

Stick your terrorist lover bullshit up your racist ass. Stop apologizing for warmongers. I see the truth hurts. You and your ilk were quick to dive in bed with scumbag terrorists all because you hated Boooossshh.

Your badge of terrorist lover was WELL earned. So wear it proudly.

And you have been provided with recent events, it is your fault you refuse to fucking read and accept the truth. You've provided NOTHING to equate Christians with head-chopping Islamic terrorists in the year 2009. You've provided NOTHING to prove the U.S. is a theocracy. And that is because NEITHER are true.

[Moby]

We are living in the 21st century and dealing with what is happening today. Give us the names of the Christian crusaders who are murdering in the name of Jesus today.
Ever heard the phrase, "Unit, core, God, country"?

We don't claim that we're doing God's work like some of the major religious leaders but we have not removed religion from our soldiers. It's more muted but it still exists.

[Moby]

You've provided NOTHING to prove the U.S. is a theocracy.
The US is not a theocracy yet. Many people are fighting against the "Culture Warriors".

Now if everyone followed them, wouldn't we be a theocracy?

[Boogie man]

Maybe you christians should stop invading their countries. Raping and killing their women and trying to convert their children.

And i dont apologize for any religion...it's all hocus pocus bullshit. Your attemtp to defend your version of death and destruction in the name of the one true god is laughable at best.

Maybe you muslim lovers whould stop attacking us with planes full of innocent people and flying them into buildings full of innocent people while you use children to strap on bombs and rape and murder women and children who you hide behind while you launch your missiles into innocent civilian populations.

You most certainly do apologize for the muslim religion. You've been doing it for since you got on this topic.

I am defending my point that Christians are not the religion that is murdering innocent women and children in the name of Jesus like you claim while you deflect the truth of what is really happening in the world.

Get your facts straight instead of trying to use emotional rhetoric to make some idiiotic emotional morality claim which has not basis in reality.

[Boogie man]

Ever heard the phrase, "Unit, core, God, country"?

We don't claim that we're doing God's work like some of the major religious leaders but we have not removed religion from our soldiers. It's more muted but it still exists.

Belief in God is not the same as killing for God. The American soldier and marine does not murder in the name of Jesus like muslims murder in the name of Mohammed. That's an idiotic claim bordering on insanity.

[Boogie man]

The US is not a theocracy yet. Many people are fighting against the "Culture Warriors".

Now if everyone followed them, wouldn't we be a theocracy?

No. America had much more religious freedom than it does not and there was never an attempt to make the USA a theocracy.

[Brian-W]

Looks like we have found the one who is brainwashed. Islam is a murderous religious cult. .

Then why would you allow such a dangerous cult to even exist in your country?

Should we put them all on trains and ship them to some sort of camp that would show them the error of their ways?

[Brian-W]

Any wars we are involved in are not based on "Christianity", dumbfuck.



Funny you should mention that. I regularly listen to AFR (American Family Radio) and they are always complaining about their religious views being suppressed.

One example they cite is that American servicemen are not being allowed to preach the gospel of Jesus to the heretics in Iraq.
That's a beautiful sight. Spreading the message of Jesus at the barrell of a gun.

[Boogie man]

I provided a link. Stop playing your typical right wing bullshit.

I don't see it. That makes you a liar. Post it.

[Boogie man]

Then why would you allow such a dangerous cult to even exist in your country?

Should we put them all on trains and ship them to some sort of camp that would show them the error of their ways?

Because it's not up to me. We certainly have more religious freedom than muslim countries have or didn't you know that?

What we should do is what we are doing. We are standing up to the lies being spewed by you and your pals on the internet. Thank God that in America we have the freedom to counter the lies rather than having to be brainwashed like the muslim countries do to their citizens.

[Brian-W]

Because it's not up to me. We certainly have more religious freedom than muslim countries have or didn't you know that?

What we should do is what we are doing. We are standing up to the lies being spewed by you and your pals on the internet. Thank God that in America we have the freedom to counter the lies rather than having to be brainwashed like the muslim countries do to their citizens.

Oh ok, so there's a dangerous murderous cult of a billion people out there just waiting to chop your head off and you take action by arguing with a pot-head on a message board?

You're a regular Thomas Paine. :lmao2:

[Boogie man]

Funny you should mention that. I regularly listen to AFR (American Family Radio) and they are always complaining about their religious views being suppressed.

One example they cite is that American servicemen are not being allowed to preach the gospel of Jesus to the heretics in Iraq.
That's a beautiful sight. Spreading the message of Jesus at the barrell of a gun.

You're confused. Islam is spread by the gun, the bomb, the sword, the suicide, etc. The American soldier and Marine does not force anyone to become a Christian by using their weapons.

Are you mentally ill? Seriously. You need help.

[Boogie man]

Oh ok, so there's a dangerous murderous cult of a billion people out there just waiting to chop your head off and you take action by arguing with a pot-head on a message board?

You're a regular Thomas Paine. :lmao2:

More emotional rhetoric.

I suggest you really think about your posts before you post them. In the last 8 years how many people have been beheaded by muslilms compared to beheaded by Christians? Tell us.

[Brian-W]

More emotional rhetoric.

I suggest you really think about your posts before you post them. In the last 8 years how many people have been beheaded by muslilms compared to beheaded by Christians? Tell us.

Damn, talk about emotional rhetoric.

[Boogie man]

Damn, talk about emotional rhetoric.

C'mon. Tell us. You're the one claiming Christianity is just as bad as Islam. Tell us how many Christian beheadings have occurred compared to Muslim beheadings in the last 8 years.

Surely there must be some Lutherans who have strapped on suicide bombs and walked into restaurants and public squares. Surely there have been some Baptists who have hijacked some planes full of innocent women and children and flown them into sky scrapers full of innocent women and children. Surely there are some Methodists who are digging tunnels and smuggling weapons to fire into civilian populations in some country. Surely there are some pentecostals who are planning right now to lay some roadside bombs to murder some muslims in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. C'mon, tell us what those mean nasty Christians are up to.

[Brian-W]

C'mon. Tell us. You're the one claiming Christianity is just as bad as Islam. Tell us how many Christian beheadings have occurred compared to Muslim beheadings in the last 8 years.

Surely there must be some Lutherans who have strapped on suicide bombs and walked into restaurants and public squares. Surely there have been some Baptists who have hijacked some planes full of innocent women and children and flown them into sky scrapers full of innocent women and children. Surely there are some Methodists who are digging tunnels and smuggling weapons to fire into civilian populations in some country. Surely there are some pentecostals who are planning right now to lay some roadside bombs to murder some muslims in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. C'mon, tell us what those mean nasty Christians are up to.


I've already explained it. Terrorism is a Guerilla tactic.

It's usually carried out by people who have nothing to lose.

That being said, Christians in this country are held back by civilized society.

But you can bet your ass, that if another country invaded us and YOUR kid was collateral damage, you'd strap a bomb on in a second.

[gOd]

I've already explained it. Terrorism is a Guerilla tactic.

It's usually carried out by people who have nothing to lose.

That being said, Christians in this country are held back by civilized society.

But you can bet your ass, that if another country invaded us and YOUR kid was collateral damage, you'd strap a bomb on in a second.
"Preemptive strike" and "Shock & Awe" are synonyms for terrorism.

[Boogie man]

I've already explained it. Terrorism is a Guerilla tactic.

It's usually carried out by people who have nothing to lose.

That being said, Christians in this country are held back by civilized society.

But you can bet your ass, that if another country invaded us and YOUR kid was collateral damage, you'd strap a bomb on in a second.

Oh my God.....Another moral equivalent arguement.

Tell me why another country would invade the USA.

[Parade Rain]

Oh my God.....Another moral equivalent arguement.

Tell me why another country would invade the USA.

Jesus fucking christ, and you WONDER why you're seen as a fucking dumbass?????

[doctordog]

Jesus fucking christ, and you WONDER why you're seen as a fucking dumbass?????

We no longer wonder about you.

[Brian-W]

Oh my God.....Another moral equivalent arguement.

Tell me why another country would invade the USA.


Well, we invaded 2 countries. Do we have to invade Poland before the rest of the world takes action?

[MintJulep]

Well, we invaded 2 countries. Do we have to invade Poland before the rest of the world takes action?"Invaded" Afghanistan? You think we should have done nothing after 9/11?

[Brian-W]

"Preemptive strike" and "Shock & Awe" are synonyms for terrorism.

I was pretty shocked and awed on 9/11.

All I saw when we went into Iraq was a bunch of flashes of light in the middle of the night.

I'm shocked and awed that we're still there though. :)

[Brian-W]

"Invaded" Afghanistan? You think we should have done nothing after 9/11?

hell yeah, we gotta kill somebody don't we?

[MintJulep]

hell yeah, we gotta kill somebody don't we? When a bunch of Islamofascists comes here and slaughters 3k innocent men, women and children, you're damn straight somebody better die.

What did you propose? Fresh baklava and a foot rub? Maybe a "Muslim Day" here in the US? :talktothehand:

[Brian-W]

When a bunch of Islamofascists comes here and slaughters 3k innocent men, women and children, you're damn straight somebody better die.

What did you propose? Fresh baklava and a foot rub? Maybe a "Muslim Day" here in the US? :talktothehand:

No, I don't suggest that at all. What I suggest is that we rethink some of our foreign policies that might have provoked such an attack.

You cons kill me. You hate and distrust the government so much, yet you put total faith in them if it involves the military.

Ok, Afghanistan might have been somewhat justified, but anyone who defends Iraq is just naive.

"islamofascists" lmao That's an oldie.

[MintJulep]

No, I don't suggest that at all. What I suggest is that we rethink some of our foreign policies that might have provoked such an attack.

You cons kill me. You hate and distrust the government so much, yet you put total faith in them if it involves the military. We weren't in Iraq on 9/11 so the Blame America First shtick doesn't add up. There is no reason or justification for terrorists to come here and kill civilians. They are not soldiers, they are terrorists and being such are ineligible for coverage under the Geneva Convention.

I trust the US military to protect the citizens. And they do that very well.

Ok, Afghanistan might have been somewhat justified, but anyone who defends Iraq is just naive.

"islamofascists" lmao That's an oldie.I'm not defending Iraq.

And you know what my favorite word for them is.........

[Boogie man]

Jesus fucking christ, and you WONDER why you're seen as a fucking dumbass?????

Calling me a dumbass isn't answering the question. Do you always deflect for your pals when they can't provide an answer to clarify their emotional rhetoric. Dick nose.

[Boogie man]

Well, we invaded 2 countries. Do we have to invade Poland before the rest of the world takes action?

Yeah. Let's invade Poland.

I beginning to think I'm dealing with 6th graders.

[Boogie man]

hell yeah, we gotta kill somebody don't we?

You're losing it, big time. You're no longer making a point. All you're doing is tossing out lame brain farts. If you're done then find a topic you can be serious about.

[Boogie man]

When a bunch of Islamofascists comes here and slaughters 3k innocent men, women and children, you're damn straight somebody better die.

What did you propose? Fresh baklava and a foot rub? Maybe a "Muslim Day" here in the US? :talktothehand:

The Democrats already did that. They had a "muslim day" last spring I think.

[Boogie man]

No, I don't suggest that at all. What I suggest is that we rethink some of our foreign policies that might have provoked such an attack.

You cons kill me. You hate and distrust the government so much, yet you put total faith in them if it involves the military.

Ok, Afghanistan might have been somewhat justified, but anyone who defends Iraq is just naive.

"islamofascists" lmao That's an oldie.

Tell us what the USA did to "provoke" the attack on 9/11.

I beginning to see the kind of person we are dealing with here. You are very naive and have absolutely no basic history of the United States or our enemy.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

[Moby]

Belief in God is not the same as killing for God. The American soldier and marine does not murder in the name of Jesus like muslims murder in the name of Mohammed. That's an idiotic claim bordering on insanity.
I never made that claim. However, I always found it interesting that God comes before country in the statement.

[Moby]

No. America had much more religious freedom than it does not and there was never an attempt to make the USA a theocracy.
There have been many attempts and there are those that are still making that attempt. They are not dangerously influential yet but they do exist.


Adding "God" to the pledge and on our money is a major move towards that end.
Mike Huckabee wants to use a religious document to create laws.
Bill O is a culture warrior and wants to push his values into government.
Hannity is a hate filled man of the cloth.
Many Bush interns came from Liberty University.
Pat Robertson made a run for President.
The last President had a religious consular that he spoke with weekly until he turned out to be gay.
Our politicians quote the bible when speaking about laws and political issues.
Gay marriage is only opposed for religious reasons.



While there is a strong push against becoming a theocracy, there is a strong push towards it. As long as Americans stay educated we will avoid it but education is slipping and being replaced with media hounds that are pushing to limit education and pushing for a theocracy.

You even support some that are making that push.

[Brian-W]

Tell us what the USA did to "provoke" the attack on 9/11.

I beginning to see the kind of person we are dealing with here. You are very naive and have absolutely no basic history of the United States or our enemy.

Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

I'm 41.

I don't think you or I did anything to provoke it. But the stooges running our govt are notorious for pissing people off.

For example. Look at what the FBI did to the people in Waco. They had some reports of underage sex, so they went in with tanks and killed the whole lot.

Now if our govt treats our own citizens like that, how much respect do you think they show others?

[Brian-W]

I never made that claim. However, I always found it interesting that God comes before country in the statement.

Yeah, they like to pretend like God comes first in their lives.

They preach it, but they certainly don't live up to that claim.

[xav8terx]

You haven't provided shit. A youtube video produced by another terror lovin moonbat? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test. Produce some legitimate news sources reporting on the mass murder by Christian crusaders in the year 2009 in the same vein as the thousands of mass murders committed by Islamics.

I'll be waiting.


See Iraq and Afgan. Your failed attempt to defend your phony god is what isnt passing the smell test. Both wars can be chalked up to a crusade...Bush was doing gods work wasnt he?


Now lets see these sources for the MASS murder comitted by Muslims...i'll be waiting.

[xav8terx]

Any wars we are involved in are not based on "Christianity", dumbfuck.

I see the truth hurts. You and your ilk were quick to dive in bed with scumbag terrorists all because you hated Boooossshh.

Your badge of terrorist lover was WELL earned. So wear it proudly.

You've provided NOTHING to equate Christians with head-chopping Islamic terrorists in the year 2009. You've provided NOTHING to prove the U.S. is a theocracy. And that is because NEITHER are true.

You are fuckin skow aint ya?...again read up on Bush...

When the fuck did i mention america being a theocracy? Try to keep up we will not wait for you.

[xav8terx]

Maybe you muslim lovers whould stop attacking us with planes full of innocent people and flying them into buildings full of innocent people while you use children to strap on bombs and rape and murder women and children who you hide behind while you launch your missiles into innocent civilian populations.

You most certainly do apologize for the muslim religion. You've been doing it for since you got on this topic.

I am defending my point that Christians are not the religion that is murdering innocent women and children in the name of Jesus like you claim while you deflect the truth of what is really happening in the world.

Get your facts straight instead of trying to use emotional rhetoric to make some idiiotic emotional morality claim which has not basis in reality.



You can paint it however you want to hero...the fact remains the same...your fucked up, forgiving god is as useless as those you rally against and kill in his name. The only thing you have is your fundaMENTAList views that your puppet masters hand you. I don’t bow down and suck any gods dick...that is your weak ass. When you fuckin christians keep to yourself and stop spreading the word of sheep herders then maybe they will stop fighting back. Until then you will continue to see people die for no real reason other than bedtime stories.

[xav8terx]

I don't see it. That makes you a liar. Post it.

No, that makes you ignorant.

[xav8terx]

More emotional rhetoric.

I suggest you really think about your posts before you post them. In the last 8 years how many people have been beheaded by muslilms compared to beheaded by Christians? Tell us.

Gee, i dont know. Why dont you tell us Billy.

..."A lot of people in America see this as a confrontation between good and evil, including me," Bush said during a 1 1/2 -hour Oval Office conversation on cultural changes and a battle with terrorists that he sees lasting decades. "There was a stark change between the culture of the '50s and the '60s -- boom -- and I think there's change happening here," he added. "It seems to me that there's a Third Awakening."

[xav8terx]

When a bunch of Islamofascists comes here and slaughters 3k innocent men, women and children, you're damn straight somebody better die.

What did you propose? Fresh baklava and a foot rub? Maybe a "Muslim Day" here in the US? :talktothehand:


It's too bad your hero was responsible for it...do the research and wake up.

[xav8terx]

Yeah. Let's invade Poland.

I beginning to think I'm dealing with 6th graders.

A little to much. Should we go down a few grades so you can keep up?

[Boogie man]

I'm 41.

I don't think you or I did anything to provoke it. But the stooges running our govt are notorious for pissing people off.

For example. Look at what the FBI did to the people in Waco. They had some reports of underage sex, so they went in with tanks and killed the whole lot.

Now if our govt treats our own citizens like that, how much respect do you think they show others?

So what did the government do to piss of the terrorists to cause 9/11.

[Boogie man]

A little to much. Should we go down a few grades so you can keep up?

I'm not the one who suggested we invade Poland. You are.

[Parade Rain]

Calling me a dumbass isn't answering the question. Do you always deflect for your pals when they can't provide an answer to clarify their emotional rhetoric. Dick nose.

Did you forget already? I won't answer ASININE questions, dumbass. I don't "deflect" to anyone. Go read a fucking book and LEARN something.

[xav8terx]

I'm not the one who suggested we invade Poland. You are.


I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I didnt suggest invading any country.

[doctordog]

Did you forget already? I won't answer ASININE questions, dumbass. I don't "deflect" to anyone. Go read a fucking book and LEARN something.

Morre deflection from the Drama Queen.

[Boogie man]

Did you forget already? I won't answer ASININE questions, dumbass. I don't "deflect" to anyone. Go read a fucking book and LEARN something.

Translation......

"Parade Rain does not have to ability to answer a direct question unless he already has the answer from a moonbat site".

[Boogie man]

I think you might be confusing me with someone else. I didnt suggest invading any country.

Confusion is another one of moonbat tactics. I know you guys like to work in pairs.

[Parade Rain]

Translation......

"Parade Rain does not have to ability to answer a direct question unless he already has the answer from a moonbat site".

Yawn. See if you can go find another racist avatar. This one's old.

[doctordog]

Yawn. See if you can go find another racist avatar. This one's old.

Deflection to avatar now, blah, blah, blah.:hi:

[MintJulep]

See Iraq and Afgan. Your failed attempt to defend your phony god is what isnt passing the smell test. Both wars can be chalked up to a crusade...Bush was doing gods work wasnt he?


Now lets see these sources for the MASS murder comitted by Muslims...i'll be waiting.The U.S. military does not work under a Christian or any other religious doctrine. The Bible is not codified into law in the U.S. Once again, you have believed another fabrication advanced by a moonbat site.

Beslan, Germany, Great Britain, France, etc. etc. etc. Muzzies have committed mass murder in every corner of the globe, dimwit.

[MintJulep]

It's too bad your hero was responsible for it...do the research and wake up.Bush was responsible for 9/11? No. Nineteen stinking, butt ugly sand fleas were.

Goddamn. You'll make up anything to cover for your little terrorist friends.

[Parade Rain]

Deflection to avatar now, blah, blah, blah.:hi:

Nothing of substance worth responding to - what a surprise.

[doctordog]

Nothing of substance worth responding to - what a surprise.

I agree, you never bring anything to the table when visiting here.:thumbsup:

[Boogie man]

Nothing of substance worth responding to - what a surprise.

Have you always been such a miserable negative person?

[xav8terx]

Confusion is another one of moonbat tactics. I know you guys like to work in pairs.

And ignorance is your tactic...hows that working out for you?

[xav8terx]

The U.S. military does not work under a Christian or any other religious doctrine. The Bible is not codified into law in the U.S. Once again, you have believed another fabrication advanced by a moonbat site.

Beslan, Germany, Great Britain, France, etc. etc. etc. Muzzies have committed mass murder in every corner of the globe, dimwit.


Exactly how is a quote from Bush fabricated? Which site do you suppose i went to? This is old news...again, it is your issue if you choose to accept the truth or not.

[Boogie man]

And ignorance is your tactic...hows that working out for you?

I'm also a racist, bigot, homophobe and a warmonger. Don't you know all the labels by now? It's much easier than actually making a point and debating it.

[xav8terx]

Bush was responsible for 9/11? No. Nineteen stinking, butt ugly sand fleas were.

Goddamn. You'll make up anything to cover for your little terrorist friends.


I suggest you wake up. You hate the government but yet defend the right...when exactly did you become so confused?

[Parade Rain]

Have you always been such a miserable negative person?

Have you always had a warped, dumbed-down perspective on everything?

[Boogie man]

Exactly how is a quote from Bush fabricated? Which site do you suppose i went to? This is old news...again, it is your issue if you choose to accept the truth or not.

When did Bush say he was murdering people in the name of Jesus?

[Boogie man]

Have you always had a warped, dumbed-down perspective on everything?

Are you running low on your depression medication?

[xav8terx]

I'm also a racist, bigot, homophobe and a warmonger. Don't you know all the labels by now? It's much easier than actually making a point and debating it.

Yes i already know...you and your challenged girlfriend have made the label thing very clear...terrorist lover, moonbat, sand fleas. How much does it cost to have your uniform dry cleaned? Is it a package deal or do they charge extra for the hood?

[Boogie man]

I suggest you wake up. You hate the government but yet defend the right...when exactly did you become so confused?

We don't hate our government. We know the purpose of our government. You and your pals don't. That's the problem.

[xav8terx]

When did Bush say he was murdering people in the name of Jesus?

Holy shit dude...try reading some links. Where were you the last 9 years?? :confused:

[Boogie man]

Yes i already know...you and your challenged girlfriend have made the label thing very clear...terrorist lover, moonbat, sand fleas. How much does it cost to have your uniform dry cleaned? Is it a package deal or do they charge extra for the hood?

You are a terrorist lover. You've shown that by your posts. You think the USA is the cause of muslim terror.

[xav8terx]

We don't hate our government. We know the purpose of our government. You and your pals don't. That's the problem.


Yes, you want to kill all non believers if they wont convert. I'm very aware of your reason to have the government.

[Boogie man]

Holy shit dude...try reading some links. Where were you the last 9 years?? :confused:

Give me the link of Bush saying he is going to murder muslims in the name of Jesus.

[xav8terx]

You are a terrorist lover. You've shown that by your posts. You think the USA is the cause of muslim terror.


I love when you have no clue what is going on or what to say you go back to that. :lmao2:

[Boogie man]

Yes, you want to kill all non believers if they wont convert. I'm very aware of your reason to have the government.

Why of course. And if you don't read your bible then I'm going to make you drink holy water. You're an idiot.

[Boogie man]

I love when you have no clue what is going on or what to say you go back to that. :lmao2:

Do you believe the policies of the USA are the cause of terrorism?

[Parade Rain]

Are you running low on your depression medication?

Does everyone in the mental ward get internet privileges or did you have to perform special favors for yours?

[Boogie man]

Does everyone in the mental ward get internet privileges or did you have to perform special favors for yours?

Is there ever an excuse for violence in your world?

[xav8terx]

Give me the link of Bush saying he is going to murder muslims in the name of Jesus.

LMAO, look it up.

[Parade Rain]

Is there ever an excuse for violence in your world?

Is it embarrassing to be ostracized and mocked every where you go?

[xav8terx]

Why of course. And if you don't read your bible then I'm going to make you drink holy water. You're an idiot.

Oh shit, i burned it the other day.

[xav8terx]

Do you believe the policies of the USA are the cause of terrorism?

You dont pay attention much do you?

[Boogie man]

Is it embarrassing to be ostracized and mocked every where you go?

Nope. I would be embarrassed if I couldn't reply to simple direct questions like you can't. You obviously are timid and have no real firm grasp of what you believe because you simply will not answer direct questions. You have a proven track record of that.

[Boogie man]

You dont pay attention much do you?

Kinda hard to pay attention when you and your pals main goal is to confuse, deflect and obfuscate instead of debate.

[MintJulep]

Exactly how is a quote from Bush fabricated? Which site do you suppose i went to? This is old news...again, it is your issue if you choose to accept the truth or not.Our military orders are not based on Christian law. If you have something to prove otherwise, produce it. And fabricated sand flea "accounts" don't meant shit.

[Parade Rain]

Nope. I would be embarrassed if I couldn't reply to simple direct questions like you can't. You obviously are timid and have no real firm grasp of what you believe because you simply will not answer direct questions. You have a proven track record of that.

....said the deluded idiot whose partisan loyalty blinds him to reality. :lmao2:

[xav8terx]

Kinda hard to pay attention when you and your pals main goal is to confuse, deflect and obfuscate instead of debate.

Hey, dont blame everyone else because you cant keep up. Why are you so easily distracted?

[xav8terx]

Our military orders are not based on Christian law. If you have something to prove otherwise, produce it. And fabricated sand flea "accounts" don't meant shit.

No they are not...just the orders from the commander in chief at the time...you see the similarities yet? I doubt it.

[MintJulep]

Give me the link of Bush saying he is going to murder muslims in the name of Jesus.A Mooslim Chief said it, and another one present said it never happened. So, go figure.

Regardless, our military nor our nation is "Christian". Funny that is never addressed, but not really. The moonbat sites need to do a better job at giving these sheeplets talking points.

[MintJulep]

No they are not...just the orders from the commander in chief at the time...you see the similarities yet? I doubt it.No, moonbat. Time for another bong hit. Your last two brain cells are fighting with each other.

[Boogie man]

....said the deluded idiot whose partisan loyalty blinds him to reality. :lmao2:

Wrong again, coward breath.

I do not belong to any political party. My loyalty is to my country.

[Boogie man]

No they are not...just the orders from the commander in chief at the time...you see the similarities yet? I doubt it.

Tell us how many hits of acid to take so we can see the same things you do.

[Parade Rain]

Wrong again, coward breath.

I do not belong to any political party. My loyalty is to my country.

Bullshit. You carry water for the worst of the worst righty nutballs. Not "belonging" to their party doesn't absolve you from your part in their destructiveness. Own it, asshole.

[xav8terx]

No, moonbat. Time for another bong hit. Your last two brain cells are fighting with each other.


Figured as much. There you go with the labels booger man mentioned. You make his point for him, congrats!! :thumbsup:

[xav8terx]

Tell us how many hits of acid to take so we can see the same things you do.


So you are ignorant of the facts. Good for you.

[Boogie man]

Bullshit. You carry water for the worst of the worst righty nutballs. Not "belonging" to their party doesn't absolve you from your part in their destructiveness. Own it, asshole.

What am I destructing? Dick nose.

[Boogie man]

So you are ignorant of the facts. Good for you.

Do you have all the "facts"?

[Boogie man]

Figured as much. There you go with the labels booger man mentioned. You make his point for him, congrats!! :thumbsup:

We're gonna use your tactics so you will feel more comfortable.

[Brian-W]

Wrong again, coward breath.

I do not belong to any political party. My loyalty is to my country.

You don't give a fuck about your country.

GOD comes first. And GOD is a republican!!! :lmao2:

[Boogie man]

You don't give a fuck about your country.

GOD comes first. And GOD is a republican!!! :lmao2:

Scum like you are the problem with this country. You're a hateful little asswipe punk.

[Bill Cosby]

Scum like you are the problem with this country. You're a hateful little asswipe punk.

That sounds a lot like what you are accusing him of... Yea think???

You do know mr bOOOoooossshhh thought this was the end times- Armageddon & all that..

Although he claimed to be a Christian, IMHO he rarely acted the part so I reserve some doubts...

If I had only one question that I could ask of him it would be this" What or who did you see yourself as in this end times scenario??

[Boogie man]

That sounds a lot like what you are accusing him of... Yea think???

You do know mr bOOOoooossshhh thought this was the end times- Armageddon & all that..

Although he claimed to be a Christian, IMHO he rarely acted the part so I reserve some doubts...

If I had only one question that I could ask of him it would be this" What or who did you see yourself as in this end times scenario??

Give me the link of Bush and end times.

[Bill Cosby]

Give me the link of Bush and end times.


It is posted here @ least twice by me.........

& if I go dig it up & it is true??? Then what???

[Brian-W]

Scum like you are the problem with this country. You're a hateful little asswipe punk.

Yeah, you should start rounding us all up and putting us in camps.

God Bless America right?