View Full Version : Pot legalization gains momentum in California
There really is a God.
Pot legalization gains momentum in California (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_re_us/us_marijuana_legalization)
By MARCUS WOHLSEN, Associated Press Writer Marcus Wohlsen, Associated Press Writer – Wed Oct 7, 9:49 pm ET
SAN FRANCISCO – Marijuana advocates are gathering signatures to get as many as three pot-legalization measures on the ballot in 2010 in California, setting up what could be a groundbreaking clash with the federal government over U.S. drug policy.
At least one poll shows voters would support lifting the pot prohibition, which would make the state of more than 38 million the first in the nation to legalize marijuana.
Such action would also send the state into a headlong conflict with the U.S. government while raising questions about how federal law enforcement could enforce its drug laws in the face of a massive government-sanctioned pot industry.
The state already has a thriving marijuana trade, thanks to a first-of-its-kind 1996 ballot measure that allowed people to smoke pot for medical purposes. But full legalization could turn medical marijuana dispensaries into all-purpose pot stores, and the open sale of joints could become commonplace on mom-and-pop liquor store counters in liberal locales like Oakland and Santa Cruz.
Under federal law, marijuana is illegal, period. After overseeing a series of raids that destroyed more than 300,000 marijuana plants in California's Sierra Nevada foothills this summer, federal drug czar Gil Kerlikowske proclaimed, "Legalization is not in the president's vocabulary, and it's not in mine."
The U.S. Supreme Court also has ruled that federal law enforcement agents have the right to crack down even on marijuana users and distributors who are in compliance with California's medical marijuana law.
But some legal scholars and policy analysts say the government will not be able to require California to help in enforcing the federal marijuana ban if the state legalizes the drug.
Without assistance from the state's legions of narcotics officers, they say, federal agents could do little to curb marijuana in California.
"Even though that federal ban is still in place and the federal government can enforce it, it doesn't mean the states have to follow suit," said Robert Mikos, a Vanderbilt University law professor who recently published a paper about the issue.
Nothing can stop federal anti-drug agents from making marijuana arrests, even if Californians legalize pot, he said. However, the U.S. government cannot pass a law requiring local and state police, sheriff's departments or state narcotics enforcers to help.
That is significant, because nearly all arrests for marijuana crimes are made at the state level. Of more than 847,000 marijuana-related arrests in 2008, for example, just over 6,300 suspects were booked by federal law enforcement, or fewer than 1 percent.
State marijuana bans have allowed the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to focus on big cases, said Rosalie Pacula, director of drug policy research at the Rand Corp.
"It's only something the feds are going to be concerned about if you're growing tons of pot," Pacula said. For anything less, she said, "they don't have the resources to waste on it."
In a typical recent prosecution, 29-year-old Luke Scarmazzo was sentenced to nearly 22 years and co-defendant Ricardo Ruiz Montes to 20 years in federal prison for drug trafficking through a medical marijuana dispensary in Modesto.
At his bond hearing, prosecutors showed a rap video in which Scarmazzo boasts about his successful marijuana business, taunts federal authorities and carries cardboard boxes filled with cash. The DEA said the pair made more than $4.5 million in marijuana sales in less than two years.
The DEA would not speculate on the effects of any decision by California to legalize pot. "Marijuana is illegal under federal law and DEA will continue to attack large-scale drug trafficking organizations at every level," spokeswoman Dawn Dearden said.
The most conservative of the three ballot measures would only legalize possession of up to one ounce of pot for personal use by adults 21 and older — an amount that already under state law can only result at most in a $100 fine.
The proposal would also allow anyone to grow a plot of marijuana up to 5 feet-by-5 feet on their private property. The size, Pacula said, seems specifically designed to keep the total number of plants grown below 100, the threshold for DEA attention.
The greatest potential for conflict with the U.S. government would likely come from the provision that would give local governments the power to decide city-by-city whether to allow pot sales.
Hundreds of medical marijuana dispensaries across the state already operate openly with only modest federal interference. If recreational marijuana became legal, these businesses could operate without requiring their customers to qualify as patients.
Any business that grew bigger than the already typical storefront shops, however, would probably be too tempting a target for federal prosecution, experts said.
Even if Washington could no longer count on California to keep pot off its own streets, Congress or the Obama administration could try to coerce cooperation by withholding federal funds.
But with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement earlier this year that the Justice Department would defer to state laws on marijuana, the federal response to possible legalization remains unclear.
Doug Richardson, a spokesman for the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy, said the office is in the process of re-evaluating its policies on marijuana and other drugs.
Richardson said the office under Obama was pursuing a "more comprehensive" approach than the previous administration, with emphasis on prevention and treatment as well as law enforcement.
"We're trying to base stuff on the facts, the evidence and the science," he said, "not some particular prejudice somebody brings to the table."
The_Limit
10-08-2009, 01:43 PM
Dumb idea.
Totally against it.
xav8terx
10-08-2009, 01:50 PM
Dumb idea.
Totally against it.
Why is it a dumb idea?
Just think of the money that could be pumped into California (not just sales, but tourism would increase...I would plan a trip to Cali before I would Florida or any place else in the states)...hell the feds could keep their money. Not to mention the added impact it would have on the cartels that are killing people by the thousands. And there is this simple fact...847,000 marijuana-related arrests in 2008...victimless crime indeed
MarkMiller
10-08-2009, 02:04 PM
Just to decrease the Prison population alone would be worth it and the savings to the state on just that every year...plus the savings from policing the smaller guys and just focusing on illegal farms would increase control f outside influences.
Citizen
10-08-2009, 02:26 PM
Dumb idea.
Totally against it.
Dumb comment.
Totally against you.
cheffy
10-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Those who want to smoke pot, will find pot to smoke. It's really not hard to find.
Just think of the money that could be pumped into California (not just sales, but tourism would increase...I would plan a trip to Cali before I would Florida or any place else in the states)...hell the feds could keep their money. Not to mention the added impact it would have on the cartels that are killing people by the thousands. And there is this simple fact...847,000 marijuana-related arrests in 2008...victimless crime indeed
Not only that, other countries are beginning to realize it's not worth the money or the trouble to keep it illegal. I'd rather see crops of marijuana in the central valley than mega-vineyards. It would CA's #1 export—if not the US's.
Just to decrease the Prison population alone would be worth it and the savings to the state on just that every year...plus the savings from policing the smaller guys and just focusing on illegal farms would increase control f outside influences.
The illegal farms are destroying wilderness areas. If it is made legal, these farms will vanish from lack of profit.
This would also decrease drug related problems and tensions along the Mexican border.
Those who want to smoke pot, will find pot to smoke. It's really not hard to find.
Yes, I don't anticipate a surge of new users or people who wouldn't smoke otherwise if it becomes legal. The law isn't currently preventing its usage. So, get rid of the ineffective law and let's stimulate the economy.
CosmicRocker
10-08-2009, 03:45 PM
Yes, I don't anticipate a surge of new users or people who wouldn't smoke otherwise if it becomes legal. The law isn't currently preventing its usage. So, get rid of the ineffective law and let's stimulate the economy.
why are you engaging in a rational debate !!!!! :D
GET HYSTERICAL !!!! :rant:
CosmicRocker
10-08-2009, 03:46 PM
Starin' at the boob tube, turnin' on the big knob
Tryin' to find some life in the waste land
Fin'ly found a program, gonna deal with Mary Jane
Ready for a trip into hate land
Obnoxious Joe comes on the screen
Along with his guest self-righteous Sam
And one more guy who doesn't count
His hair and clothes are too far out
While pushin' back his glasses Sam is sayin' casually
"I was elected by the masses"
And with that in mind he starts to unwind
A vicious attack on the finest of grasses
Well it's evil, wicked, mean and nasty
(Don't step on the grass, Sam)
And it will ruin our fair country
(Don't be such an ass, Sam)
Well, it will hook your Sue and Johnny
(You're so full of bull, Sam)
All will pay that disagree with me
(Please give up you already lost the fight, alright)
Misinformation Sam and Joe
Are feeding to the nation
But the one who didn't count counted them out
By exposing all their false quotations
Faced by a very awkward situation
This is all he'd say to save the day
Well it's evil, wicked, mean and nasty
(Don't step on the grass, Sam)
And it will ruin our fair country
(Don't be such an ass, Sam)
Well, it will hook your Sue and Johnny
(You're so full of bull, Sam)
All will pay that disagree with me
(Please give up you already lost the fight alright)
You waste my coin Sam, all you can
To jail my fellow man
For smoking all the noble weed
You need much more than him
You've been telling lies so long
Some believe they're true
So they close their eyes to things
You have no right to do
Just as soon as you are gone
Hope will start to climb
Please don't stay around too long
You're wasting precious time
Binky
10-08-2009, 04:01 PM
Those who want to smoke pot, will find pot to smoke. It's really not hard to find.
Nope, rather easy....and sure isn't as life threatening as booze. I've never heard of any pot smoker going out and killing someone because he had just smoked some weed. I have, tho', heard a lot about drunk drivers killing other drivers or pedestrians. And even themselves.....and that's not even including the damage a boozer is doing to his liver and mind.....
Hmmmmm.....I wonder which is the more dangerous drug.....hmmmmm.....any guesses?
Citizen
10-08-2009, 05:56 PM
Alcohol is poison compared to pot. The right to choose for yourself.
Smurf-Herder
10-08-2009, 06:36 PM
Pot legalization gains momentum in California
By MARCUS WOHLSEN (AP) – 21 hours ago
SAN FRANCISCO — Marijuana advocates are gathering signatures to get as many as three pot-legalization measures on the ballot in 2010 in California, setting up what could be a groundbreaking clash with the federal government over U.S. drug policy.
At least one poll shows voters would support lifting the pot prohibition, which would make the state of more than 38 million the first in the nation to legalize marijuana.
Such action would also send the state into a headlong conflict with the U.S. government while raising questions about how federal law enforcement could enforce its drug laws in the face of a massive government-sanctioned pot industry.
The state already has a thriving marijuana trade, thanks to a first-of-its-kind 1996 ballot measure that allowed people to smoke pot for medical purposes. But full legalization could turn medical marijuana dispensaries into all-purpose pot stores, and the open sale of joints could become commonplace on mom-and-pop liquor store counters in liberal locales like Oakland and Santa Cruz.
Under federal law, marijuana is illegal, period. After overseeing a series of raids that destroyed more than 300,000 marijuana plants in California's Sierra Nevada foothills this summer, federal drug czar Gil Kerlikowske proclaimed, "Legalization is not in the president's vocabulary, and it's not in mine."
The U.S. Supreme Court also has ruled that federal law enforcement agents have the right to crack down even on marijuana users and distributors who are in compliance with California's medical marijuana law.
But some legal scholars and policy analysts say the government will not be able to require California to help in enforcing the federal marijuana ban if the state legalizes the drug.
Without assistance from the state's legions of narcotics officers, they say, federal agents could do little to curb marijuana in California.
"Even though that federal ban is still in place and the federal government can enforce it, it doesn't mean the states have to follow suit," said Robert Mikos, a Vanderbilt University law professor who recently published a paper about the issue.
Nothing can stop federal anti-drug agents from making marijuana arrests, even if Californians legalize pot, he said. However, the U.S. government cannot pass a law requiring local and state police, sheriff's departments or state narcotics enforcers to help.
That is significant, because nearly all arrests for marijuana crimes are made at the state level. Of more than 847,000 marijuana-related arrests in 2008, for example, just over 6,300 suspects were booked by federal law enforcement, or fewer than 1 percent.
State marijuana bans have allowed the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to focus on big cases, said Rosalie Pacula, director of drug policy research at the Rand Corp.
"It's only something the feds are going to be concerned about if you're growing tons of pot," Pacula said. For anything less, she said, "they don't have the resources to waste on it."
In a typical recent prosecution, 29-year-old Luke Scarmazzo was sentenced to nearly 22 years and co-defendant Ricardo Ruiz Montes to 20 years in federal prison for drug trafficking through a medical marijuana dispensary in Modesto.
At his bond hearing, prosecutors showed a rap video in which Scarmazzo boasts about his successful marijuana business, taunts federal authorities and carries cardboard boxes filled with cash. The DEA said the pair made more than $4.5 million in marijuana sales in less than two years.
The DEA would not speculate on the effects of any decision by California to legalize pot. "Marijuana is illegal under federal law and DEA will continue to attack large-scale drug trafficking organizations at every level," spokeswoman Dawn Dearden said.
The most conservative of the three ballot measures would only legalize possession of up to one ounce of pot for personal use by adults 21 and older — an amount that already under state law can only result at most in a $100 fine.
The proposal would also allow anyone to grow a plot of marijuana up to 5 feet-by-5 feet on their private property. The size, Pacula said, seems specifically designed to keep the total number of plants grown below 100, the threshold for DEA attention.
The greatest potential for conflict with the U.S. government would likely come from the provision that would give local governments the power to decide city-by-city whether to allow pot sales.
Hundreds of medical marijuana dispensaries across the state already operate openly with only modest federal interference. If recreational marijuana became legal, these businesses could operate without requiring their customers to qualify as patients.
Any business that grew bigger than the already typical storefront shops, however, would probably be too tempting a target for federal prosecution, experts said.
Even if Washington could no longer count on California to keep pot off its own streets, Congress or the Obama administration could try to coerce cooperation by withholding federal funds.
But with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder's announcement earlier this year that the Justice Department would defer to state laws on marijuana, the federal response to possible legalization remains unclear.
Doug Richardson, a spokesman for the White House's Office of National Drug Control Policy, said the office is in the process of re-evaluating its policies on marijuana and other drugs.
Richardson said the office under Obama was pursuing a "more comprehensive" approach than the previous administration, with emphasis on prevention and treatment as well as law enforcement.
"We're trying to base stuff on the facts, the evidence and the science," he said, "not some particular prejudice somebody brings to the table."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h6W7KC63V4xxIsSnUT7zLcWc6upwD9B6KAAG0
cheffy
10-08-2009, 07:46 PM
I am hoping if they do make it legal for recreational use, then they bring down some of these prices. I have my medical card, and medical marijuana is quite expensive. It costs $65-$70 an 1/8th for higher end weed.
ROdger Right
10-08-2009, 08:39 PM
Not only that, other countries are beginning to realize it's not worth the money or the trouble to keep it illegal. I'd rather see crops of marijuana in the central valley than mega-vineyards. It would CA's #1 export—if not the US's.
The illegal farms are destroying wilderness areas. If it is made legal, these farms will vanish from lack of profit.
This would also decrease drug related problems and tensions along the Mexican border.
If the huge profits wearnt for other drugs maybe there could be less deaths in Mexico.
A simple reason why weed isnt considered one of the hard drugs.
Hell cali is bankrupt without this so its not going to get stopped.
ROdger Right
10-08-2009, 08:41 PM
I am hoping if they do make it legal for recreational use, then they bring down some of these prices. I have my medical card, and medical marijuana is quite expensive. It costs $65-$70 an 1/8th for higher end weed.
When the market is more controlled im sure some prices will go down or the taxes on it will go up so no telling about that.
doctordog
10-08-2009, 09:45 PM
Nope, rather easy....and sure isn't as life threatening as booze. I've never heard of any pot smoker going out and killing someone because he had just smoked some weed. I have, tho', heard a lot about drunk drivers killing other drivers or pedestrians. And even themselves.....and that's not even including the damage a boozer is doing to his liver and mind.....
Hmmmmm.....I wonder which is the more dangerous drug.....hmmmmm.....any guesses?
I know three couples that lost their boys in a car wreck where they and the driver were all high, the driver lived.
MintJulep
10-08-2009, 10:11 PM
Nope, rather easy....and sure isn't as life threatening as booze. I've never heard of any pot smoker going out and killing someone because he had just smoked some weed. Probably because it's hard to detect if someone is currently under the influence of it, unlike alcohol. I'm sure many wrecks have occurred with people stoned out of their gords.
Mr, gone
10-08-2009, 11:23 PM
I know three couples that lost their boys in a car wreck where they and the driver were all high, the driver lived.
Marijuana is only a mere speck of a fraction of the deaths that are caused by alcohol.:talktothehand: mute point...:p
MintJulep
10-08-2009, 11:26 PM
Marijuana is only a mere speck of a fraction of the deaths that are caused by alcohol...:talktothehand:How would we know though? There is no way to determine if someone is stoned on the scene.
Bill Cosby
10-09-2009, 01:42 AM
When the market is more controlled im sure some prices will go down or the taxes on it will go up so no telling about that.
Sounds like guvment might have a role to play here....:hi:
Mr, gone
10-09-2009, 04:17 AM
How would we know though? There is no way to determine if someone is stoned on the scene.
I am quite sure that pot is represented in a very small number of accidents. Though when using simple common sense, what's clear (pun intended) is that alchohol is THE most abused drug on the planet - it also impairs the bodies motor skills to a much larger extent than marijuana (amount of abusers + loss of coordination + 1 or more wheels = death).:D
tZmDWltBziM&feature=related
slowhand
10-09-2009, 04:36 AM
Id bet most pot related accidents involved drinking and smoking
Also, legalizing it will take the crimnal element out of it..Plenty of ppl get killed/murdered over booze during prohibition
Binky
10-09-2009, 05:18 AM
I am quite sure that pot is represented in a very small number of accidents. Though when using simple common sense, what's clear (pun intended) is that alchohol is THE most abused drug on the planet - it also impairs the bodies motor skills to a much larger extent than marijuana (amount of abusers + loss of coordination + 1 or more wheels = death).:D
tZmDWltBziM&feature=related
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2: That pretty much says it all.......
MintJulep
10-09-2009, 06:17 AM
I am quite sure that pot is represented in a very small number of accidents. This can't be stated as fact since there is no way to determine if someone is stoned or not.
Though when using simple common sense, what's clear (pun intended) is that alchohol is THE most abused drug on the planet - it also impairs the bodies motor skills to a much larger extent than marijuana (amount of abusers + loss of coordination + 1 or more wheels = death).:D
Again, it remains in the top spot because no one knows who is stoned and who isn't. I know being stoned out of your gord impairs your ability just as much as alcohol.
xav8terx
10-09-2009, 07:18 AM
Probably because it's hard to detect if someone is currently under the influence of it, unlike alcohol. I'm sure many wrecks have occurred with people stoned out of their gords.
It stays in your system for up to 30 days...it's one of the easiest to detect.
xav8terx
10-09-2009, 07:19 AM
If the huge profits wearnt for other drugs maybe there could be less deaths in Mexico.
A simple reason why weed isnt considered one of the hard drugs.
Hell cali is bankrupt without this so its not going to get stopped.
Actually according to another article i read marijuana is one of the highest money makers for these cartels.
disrupter
10-09-2009, 07:52 AM
Communist fascists don't like people to have personal, capitalist freedoms of choice.
Maybe in California economic prosperity & freedom will prevail over fascist, communist sharia 'morality' laws.
We will just have to wait & see.
It is my body, not the god damn government's.
Take real capitalist possession of yourselves, & tell government communist dictators to shove it.
Bill Cosby
10-09-2009, 11:30 AM
This can't be stated as fact since there is no way to determine if someone is stoned or not.
Again, it remains in the top spot because no one knows who is stoned and who isn't. I know being stoned out of your gord impairs your ability just as much as alcohol.
Out your gourd would be the extreme..... Ppl out their gourd on anything should not be driving & such...
It is perhaps only matter of opinion but we do know that booZe kills lots & lots of ppl in many ways as well as ruins families etc....... BooZe, drugs, gambling, porn etc. pick your poison.......... None of them are "good for you"...
But IMHO pot is not as bad or debilitating......... Many of the side effects (except going to jail) are less severe & most ppl just smoke enough to get mellow- not out their gourd..........
xav8terx
10-09-2009, 11:41 AM
Out your gourd would be the extreme..... Ppl out their gourd on anything should not be driving & such...
It is perhaps only matter of opinion but we do know that booZe kills lots & lots of ppl in many ways as well as ruins families etc....... BooZe, drugs, gambling, porn etc. pick your poison.......... None of them are "good for you"...
But IMHO pot is not as bad or debilitating......... Many of the side effects (except going to jail) are less severe & most ppl just smoke enough to get mellow- not out their gourd..........
Well unless chillin at the house on a Friday night!! :)
Binky
10-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Well, I've never heard of anyone getting stoned on weed, out of their gourd and then going out and killing someone in a car accident. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that I've never read about it or heard of it....
I know that while smoking weed, I can walk, and talk and move all around. The worse thing that has ever happened is I'd want to raid the fridge and cupboards and munch, munch, munch. And I'm not a drinker, and when I do drink, maybe once or twice a year, I'll have a couple of mixed drinks and I'm ready to fall down. My equal liberbriem is way off and I slur my words. And if I drink more than two, I'll end up bowing to the porcelin god. I would not want to be behind the wheel in that condition.
And from where I sit, I would prefer to take a puff of weed than to drink anyway. Booze gives me serious headaches as well. Weed relaxes the body and mind. The last thing a pot smoker wants to do is get up, get in the car, and drive somewhere. Why do that when you can sit and mellow out and enjoy the relaxed feeling when the tension of the day leaves your body? Ahhhhhhh..............
How would we know though? There is no way to determine if someone is stoned on the scene.
If someone appears to be under-the-influence, the police can arrest the driver for suspicion and give the driver a piss and/or blood test. In accidents which involve fatalities, testing is mandatory. So, I'm certain the data exists.
Thus far, this is all I could come up with...
U. S. Sentencing Commission’s
Sourcebook of Federal Sentencing Statistics (http://www.ussc.gov/ANNRPT/2005/SBTOC05.htm) (excerpt)
Between October 1, 2004 and January 11, 2005, there were 1,777 Federal offenders sentenced for marijuana-related charges in U.S. Courts. Approximately 94.9% of the cases involved marijuana trafficking. Between January 12, 2005 and September 30, 2005, there were 4,396 Federal offenders sentenced for marijuana-related charges in U.S. Courts. Approximately 95.8% of the cases involved trafficking.
It would appear that the number of accidents caused by marijuana is so small a study is not warranted. I'm with Slowhand. My guess is: if they did smoke pot and get in an accident, then other substances probably contributed or were the primary cause of the loss of control which led to the accident.
As I stated before, it is doubtful that we will see a significant increase in the number of users if it is made legal. So, the number of stoned drivers will not increase either. I don't know a single stoner who enjoys, or even has any desire, to drive a car. I can't say the same for the drinkers I know. :(
This can't be stated as fact since there is no way to determine if someone is stoned or not.
Again, it remains in the top spot because no one knows who is stoned and who isn't. I know being stoned out of your gord impairs your ability just as much as alcohol.
If I'm that high, the last thing in the world I want to do is drive. I've never met a pot smoker who doesn't feel the same way about driving—it's something we try to avoid.
CosmicRocker
10-09-2009, 03:08 PM
How would we know though? There is no way to determine if someone is stoned on the scene.
they can do field tests, but not a chemical test - since the chemical ( EMIT) test only shows past marijuana use ( metabolites).
there are a couple of eye test - i forget how they work, i think they see if your eyes cross when they move an object towards them (when stoned eyes won't cross). But I'm not sure- i just know they can do behavioral tests.
CosmicRocker
10-09-2009, 03:09 PM
If I'm that high, the last thing in world I want to do is drive. I've never met a pot smoker who doesn't feel the same way about driving—it's something we try to avoid.
ABSOLUTELY - very bad 'time' co-ordination (self estimates) when stoned.
Mr, gone
10-09-2009, 10:48 PM
Again, it remains in the top spot because no one knows who is stoned and who isn't. I know being stoned out of your gord impairs your ability just asmuch as alcohol.
I know being stoned out of your gord impairs your ability just asmuch as alcohol.
Bullshit!!!:lmao2: Apparently the YouTube video whent RIGHT over your head...:D
doctordog
10-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Bullshit!!!:lmao2:
Post the weed head that may run over a kid tonight because he is out of brownie mix.
disrupter
10-10-2009, 10:45 AM
How about the Republican who runs over a kid, just because they know they can get away with murder?
Republicanism the only drug that should be outlawed,
it makes war crimes appear to be 'legitimate' politics.
How many more millions of innocent babies must die because of Republicanism? Stop the atrocities today, outlaw the Republican party.
MintJulep
10-10-2009, 10:48 AM
It stays in your system for up to 30 days...it's one of the easiest to detect.Yes, it stays in your system but there is no way to determine if you are currently stoned, as a breathalyzer (sp?) does.
disrupter
10-10-2009, 10:54 AM
"Un-stoned Republican" is an oxymoron.
MintJulep
10-10-2009, 10:54 AM
Out your gourd would be the extreme..... Ppl out their gourd on anything should not be driving & such...
It is perhaps only matter of opinion but we do know that booZe kills lots & lots of ppl in many ways as well as ruins families etc....... BooZe, drugs, gambling, porn etc. pick your poison.......... None of them are "good for you"...
But IMHO pot is not as bad or debilitating......... Many of the side effects (except going to jail) are less severe & most ppl just smoke enough to get mellow- not out their gourd..........
People who are drunk should not be driving, but they do. I've smoked pot before, and you never really know until you smoke it what the result will be. You can smoke a lot of some homegrown shit and barely get a buzz, and you can take one or two hits off of other shit and be stoned out of your mind.
MintJulep
10-10-2009, 10:55 AM
Well, I've never heard of anyone getting stoned on weed, out of their gourd and then going out and killing someone in a car accident. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that I've never read about it or heard of it....
I know that while smoking weed, I can walk, and talk and move all around. The worse thing that has ever happened is I'd want to raid the fridge and cupboards and munch, munch, munch. And I'm not a drinker, and when I do drink, maybe once or twice a year, I'll have a couple of mixed drinks and I'm ready to fall down. My equal liberbriem is way off and I slur my words. And if I drink more than two, I'll end up bowing to the porcelin god. I would not want to be behind the wheel in that condition.
And from where I sit, I would prefer to take a puff of weed than to drink anyway. Booze gives me serious headaches as well. Weed relaxes the body and mind. The last thing a pot smoker wants to do is get up, get in the car, and drive somewhere. Why do that when you can sit and mellow out and enjoy the relaxed feeling when the tension of the day leaves your body? Ahhhhhhh..............Like everything else, moderation is the key.
disrupter
10-10-2009, 10:56 AM
If it were legal & regulated it would have more consistent & predictable character.
disrupter
10-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Everyone remember prohibition 'bathtub gin'?
Very deadly dangerous shit.
serum114
10-10-2009, 10:58 AM
"Un-stoned Republican" is an oxymoron.
All Republicans should be stoned.
disrupter
10-10-2009, 11:02 AM
I am gathering up rocks between posts! lol
but i am afraid it is going to take many quarries full to get rid of them all.
slowhand
10-10-2009, 11:23 AM
All Republicans should be stoned.
It would definately be an improvment from their version of reality
doctordog
10-10-2009, 12:01 PM
It would definately be an improvment from their version of reality
Oh yeah, Bill Mahers everywhere, wake the fuck up!
Bill Cosby
10-10-2009, 12:14 PM
People who are drunk should not be driving, but they do. I've smoked pot before, and you never really know until you smoke it what the result will be. You can smoke a lot of some homegrown shit and barely get a buzz, and you can take one or two hits off of other shit and be stoned out of your mind.
Not all pot like all booze is not created equal............ You choose to take the extreme here........ out of your mind.. Out of your gourd...........
I prefer not to deal in the extremes- worst case scenarios...
As we know most of the time ppl are just catching a buzz, not getting stoned out their gourd........ Perhaps that can be said about someone having a glass of wine as well...........
IMO & from what I have observed throughout my life time ppl that smoke have tendencies that, on the average are quite different then drinking..
When ppl smoke they have a proclivity to mellow & when drinking to excitement that can often lead to outrageous behavior & violence... I have never seen or heard anyone smoking pot & getting violent........ Again I am not saying it has never happened in some "extreme case" but that it is pretty rare if it did occur......
Violence, & outrageous behavior & drinking are synonymous & that can not be denied........ If ppl are allowed to make this a choice of what to put in their own body, pot, IMHO should also be on the menu….
Zebulon0351
10-10-2009, 12:21 PM
There is a huge difference between someone drinking and smoking when they are behind the wheel.
You want to know how to tell if someone driving is drunk? Look for the guy going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit using every inch of every lane on the interstate, and tailgating cars that won't get out of their way.
Someone who is stoned: Look for the guy who is going five miles per hour under the speed limit while hugging the right side of the slow lane, he or she will be sitting upright in their seat holding the steering wheel in the "10 and 2" positions with their body leaned forward so he can see as much of the road as possible.
Besides, if someone is too high to drive.. they will KNOW they are too high to drive. This person will not even have enough energy to pick up the remote and change the channel because he realizes he has been watching an infomercial for the past 30 minutes.
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serum114
10-10-2009, 01:25 PM
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serum114
10-10-2009, 01:30 PM
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Bill Cosby
10-10-2009, 01:35 PM
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Binky
10-10-2009, 03:32 PM
There is a huge difference between someone drinking and smoking when they are behind the wheel.
You want to know how to tell if someone driving is drunk? Look for the guy going 20 miles per hour over the speed limit using every inch of every lane on the interstate, and tailgating cars that won't get out of their way.
Someone who is stoned: Look for the guy who is going five miles per hour under the speed limit while hugging the right side of the slow lane, he or she will be sitting upright in their seat holding the steering wheel in the "10 and 2" positions with their body leaned forward so he can see as much of the road as possible.
Besides, if someone is too high to drive.. they will KNOW they are too high to drive. This person will not even have enough energy to pick up the remote and change the channel because he realizes he has been watching an infomercial for the past 30 minutes.
:lmao2: :lmao2: A great visual you have given us......:lmao2:
Binky
10-10-2009, 03:45 PM
Robin Williams is absolutely nuts. Once he gets started he runs with it and there is no telling where his comedy is going to end up at......He's hilarious....:lmao2: :lmao2:
CosmicRocker
10-10-2009, 04:28 PM
There is absolutely nothing funny about driving while impared.
Any psychotropic, or mood altering drug changes your motor co-ordination, depth perception, and in weeds case your sense of timing.
Bill Cosby
10-10-2009, 04:49 PM
Any psychotropic, or mood altering drug changes your motor co-ordination, depth perception, and in weeds case your sense of timing.
So have you personally ran any tests on it today??? :lmao2:
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serum114
10-10-2009, 07:22 PM
Key board may be closer than it appears.
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/3/38/Drunk_at_Computer.jpg/180px-Drunk_at_Computer.jpg
Bill Cosby
10-10-2009, 07:44 PM
LMAO.....
http://e-forwards.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/3292035drunk.jpg
disrupter
10-11-2009, 07:51 AM
lol, those are great images serum114 & Bill Cosby.
It actually bothers my eyes[brain] to look at that Japanese lady's face.
My brain is compulsively/neurotically trying to resolve it, which is impossible. lol, yuck!
CosmicRocker
10-11-2009, 10:50 AM
So have you personally ran any tests on it today??? :lmao2:
I'm working, no.
this afternoon I have to drive to the airport and pick up visitors.
after work, after driving, i'll indulge.
Bill Cosby
10-11-2009, 12:07 PM
Have fun w/ your test........ Stop @ the piggly wiggly & buy an extra bag of cookies & an extra box of cereal just in case...........lol
Smurf-Herder
10-12-2009, 06:22 PM
“Foreplay, cuddling - a Jedi craves not these things”
Binky
10-12-2009, 06:35 PM
How would we know though? There is no way to determine if someone is stoned on the scene.
If a person has smoked enough of it, all you have to do is look into their eyes. Believe me, get some weed in ya and your eyes will get the sleepy-eyed look to them. There will not, however, be a look that says "I'm on a murderous rampage and am out to get anyone who is in my way." :lmao2: :lmao2: It ain't gonna happen.....They will, however, want to munch their asses off and then take a nice long snooze........:lmao2:
Binky
10-12-2009, 06:48 PM
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That's hilarious!!!!!!:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:
Binky
10-12-2009, 06:51 PM
I am gathering up rocks between posts! lol
but i am afraid it is going to take many quarries full to get rid of them all.
:lmao2: :lmao2: :lmao2:
Binky
10-12-2009, 06:55 PM
Have fun w/ your test........ Stop @ the piggly wiggly & buy an extra bag of cookies & an extra box of cereal just in case...........lol
And a huge bag of Lays Potato chips......:lmao2: :lmao2:
Binky
10-12-2009, 06:58 PM
“Foreplay, cuddling - a Jedi craves not these things”
:lmao2: :lmao2: that's what OB is gonna look like when he reachs the age of 100. His skin color will have faded, but the ears will still be huge....and he'll go back to puffin' on weed.......:lmao2: :lmao2:
Bill Cosby
10-12-2009, 07:09 PM
This is the best chip in the world--- http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EdC2ZGLQL._SL500_AA280_PIbundle-12,TopRight,0,0_AA280_SH20_.jpg
This is the second best... http://www.taquitos.net/im/sn/CapeCod-PC-DR.jpg
If you have not tried them they are a must & addicting...
disrupter
10-13-2009, 01:09 AM
"the keyboard may be closer than it appears"
but when you get electrocuted because of the drooling,
it usually wakes you back up.
Mr, gone
10-13-2009, 05:15 AM
Bill, I prefer baked BBQ... 90% of the taste with guiltless indulgence.:thumbsup:
933
ROdger Right
10-13-2009, 03:21 PM
Fuck y'lls potato chips. They are called cheetos and nothing comes close.
I don't get the munchies. I get the beeries.
http://www.mendobrew.com/images/2009/6_packs_scaled/EOTHLeftFace_101x108.jpg
MintJulep
10-13-2009, 07:11 PM
I don't get the munchies. I get the beeries.
http://www.mendobrew.com/images/2009/6_packs_scaled/EOTHLeftFace_101x108.jpgThis is much better! :D
http://www.cigarsandbeer.com/images/blue-moon-beer-review-belgian-white.gif
This is much better! :D
http://www.cigarsandbeer.com/images/blue-moon-beer-review-belgian-white.gif
I like that one too. It has a nice sweetness to it. It's perfect with a squeeze of lemon.
Have you tried Eye of the Hawk? Do they have it in FL?
MintJulep
10-13-2009, 07:28 PM
I like that one too. It has a nice sweetness to it. It's perfect with a squeeze of lemon.
Have you tried Eye of the Hawk? Do they have it in FL?No, I haven't had it and I'm not sure if they have it here or not, probably not.
I'm not a big beer fan, but Blue Moon is definitely my choice.
No, I haven't had it and I'm not sure if they have it here or not, probably not.
I'm not a big beer fan, but Blue Moon is definitely my choice.
They might not have it there. It's a Cali beer. It's a reddish coppery ale. You probably wouldn't like it—not a girly beer.
MintJulep
10-13-2009, 07:38 PM
They might not have it there. It's a Cali beer. It's a reddish coppery ale. You probably wouldn't like it—not a girly beer.I've liked Sam Adams in the past, but for me, Blue Moon surpasses all. :D
ciaobox
10-13-2009, 08:22 PM
I've liked Sam Adams in the past, but for me, Blue Moon surpasses all. :D
that's the most sensible thing you've ever said! here's an orange slice.
http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb300/20060424/e90bOrangeSlice23927.jpg
Bill Cosby
10-13-2009, 08:35 PM
I like that one too. It has a nice sweetness to it. It's perfect with a squeeze of lemon.
Have you tried Eye of the Hawk? Do they have it in FL?
I have tried it...........
Mendocino Brewing
& North coast both have some good & simalar beers.... I like the red tail also..
sacsquatch ale is a scotsh ale... Sacramento Brewing Company http://mustlovebeer.com/uploads_user/1000/1/1322.jpg
Citizen
10-13-2009, 11:20 PM
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t249/You_have_no_clue/weed.jpg
Mr, gone
10-14-2009, 01:05 AM
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t249/You_have_no_clue/weed.jpg
Fucking outstanding!
938
939
xav8terx
10-14-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't get the munchies. I get the beeries.
http://www.mendobrew.com/images/2009/6_packs_scaled/EOTHLeftFace_101x108.jpg
Is that a regional beer? If you are ever in the midwest try some Boulevard Beer. It's pretty damn tasty.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/xav8terx/UWB_bottle.jpghttp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/xav8terx/LA_pint.jpg
doctordog
10-14-2009, 11:56 AM
You guys should love this stuff:
http://i33.tinypic.com/24w7ya1.jpg
Is that a regional beer? If you are ever in the midwest try some Boulevard Beer. It's pretty damn tasty.
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/xav8terx/UWB_bottle.jpghttp://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f47/xav8terx/LA_pint.jpg
Here's their distribution map. (http://www.mendobrew.com/company/distribution.html)
CosmicRocker
10-14-2009, 12:37 PM
^ BTW gOd
the new glass bowl is working out ok, not as good as the old one i dropped,
but not a disaster either.
that is one big pile of bud s !!! :thumbsup:
^ BTW gOd
the new glass bowl is working out ok, not as good as the old one i dropped,
but not a disaster either.
that is one big pile of bud s !!! :thumbsup:
Right on! My feline broke mine on purpose. I wouldn't let him out in the middle of the night and he jumped up on dresser and batted my pipe to the floor. The little shit!
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 03:54 PM
You guys should love this stuff:
http://i33.tinypic.com/24w7ya1.jpg
I have heard of that but would unlikely drink it...........
Unless it was free & in a glass anyways......lol
You tried it???
doctordog
10-14-2009, 04:52 PM
I have heard of that but would unlikely drink it...........
Unless it was free & in a glass anyways......lol
You tried it???
Hell yes, it was $6.00/bottle in 2001 and it got me drunk pretty damn fast.
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 07:28 PM
Hell yes, it was $6.00/bottle in 2001 and it got me drunk pretty damn fast.
I will try one when I get the chance.........
It seems tha alc % is in the range of most beer.......... I think maybe you had a couple extra..........lol It looks good & all the opinions seem to be very positive for the ale I like.... :thumbsup:
ThnX I will put it on my "to do" list...
You tried many high alc beers???
There are several good ones in that range... Many w/out the high alc bite or taste... I have had some that taste like a mouth full of asprin & some you love.......
doctordog
10-14-2009, 07:38 PM
I will try one when I get the chance.........
It seems tha alc % is in the range of most beer.......... I think maybe you had a couple extra..........lol It looks good & all the opinions seem to be very positive for the ale I like.... :thumbsup:
ThnX I will put it on my "to do" list...
You tried many high alc beers???
There are several good ones in that range... Many w/out the high alc bite or taste... I have had some that taste like a mouth full of asprin & some you love.......
I tried this one at a german restaurant that had over 150 different kind of beers, this was number 46 that I got on a sampler of 10 different kinds. I love those place with samplers!
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 08:15 PM
I tried this one at a german restaurant that had over 150 different kind of beers, this was number 46 that I got on a sampler of 10 different kinds. I love those place with samplers!
Wow .... Sounds like a nice place........... I bet you had to go back a few times w/ a menu like that.....lol
doctordog
10-14-2009, 08:30 PM
Wow .... Sounds like a nice place........... I bet you had to go back a few times w/ a menu like that.....lol
Almost every german place I have ever been in has always had quite a beer selection, it must be all they do over there.:lmao2:
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 08:39 PM
I have a friend that just got back from 2 weeks in Germany & one in Switzerland...
Beer is all he talks about now.......
He said every pub & store has about a 150 options.........
Unlike here in the usa stores........... You have 20 @ best.....
Buffalo Brown Ale (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/17893/48778)
Check out this one..... I tried it a few years ago Brown Shugga' (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:i-h194C-7AEJ:www.lagunitas.com/beers/index.html+brown+shugga+ale&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
Tastes nothing like sugga........ Awesome!!!
You have bev-Mo there???
doctordog
10-14-2009, 08:51 PM
I have a friend that just got back from 2 weeks in Germany & one in Switzerland...
Beer is all he talks about now.......
He said every pub & store has about a 150 options.........
Unlike here in the usa stores........... You have 20 @ best.....
Buffalo Brown Ale (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/17893/48778)
Check out this one..... I tried it a few years ago Brown Shugga' (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:i-h194C-7AEJ:www.lagunitas.com/beers/index.html+brown+shugga+ale&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a)
Tastes nothing like sugga........ Awesome!!!
You have bev-Mo there???
I have had the Shugga, not sure about the last question
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 09:03 PM
It tastes nothing like sugga-brown sugga----- That is what it is made from....
I would of thought it thick, syrupy & sweet............
None of above..........
Where did you try that @????
You have bev mo there??
doctordog
10-14-2009, 09:05 PM
It tastes nothing like sugga-brown sugga----- That is what it is made from....
I would of thought it thick, syrupy & sweet............
None of above..........
Where did you try that @????
You have bev mo there??
It has been a while but I think it was in Atlanta.
Bill Cosby
10-14-2009, 09:30 PM
LOL............. Only been ther eonce but I really liked it......
They prob have all the pleasures under the sun...
What type of beer/ale you like??
Becks??? Hieniken?? Spaten?? etc.......???
I am not much on asian beer......... San Miguile dark is a winner IMO...... Nice & carmely.......... A taste a bit to sweet for me but I have never sipped it in 95% humity @ 95 degrees........lol
doctordog
10-14-2009, 09:42 PM
LOL............. Only been ther eonce but I really liked it......
They prob have all the pleasures under the sun...
What type of beer/ale you like??
Becks??? Hieniken?? Spaten?? etc.......???
I am not much on asian beer......... San Miguile dark is a winner IMO...... Nice & carmely.......... A taste a bit to sweet for me but I have never sipped it in 95% humity @ 95 degrees........lol
believe it or not, I keep Corona, Guinesss, and Killians in the fridge. With NFL superfan and red zone, I never have to worry about stale beer.
Bill Cosby
10-15-2009, 03:41 PM
Depending on time, mood etc...........
A nice one from Pa is rolling rock...... "pale"...... http://s2.thisnext.com/media/230x230/Rolling-Rock-Beer-Glasses_CB66BE0B.jpg
It is light & crisp/fresh.... On a hot day they can't be beat....
Citizen
10-15-2009, 10:20 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/doodscatz/emoticon-smoke.gif
Bill Cosby
10-15-2009, 11:14 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb187/doodscatz/emoticon-smoke.gif
Nice........
What is your point???
I don't recomend ppl drink or smoke anything.........
Nor do I recomend putting them in prison for doing so...... :thumbsup:
Citizen
10-15-2009, 11:21 PM
Nice........
What is your point???
I don't recomend ppl drink or smoke anything.........
Nor do I recomend putting them in prison for doing so...... :thumbsup:
How do you define 'recommend'?
Bill Cosby
10-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I do not tell anyone to smoke or drink....
I tell them they are better off not............
disrupter
10-16-2009, 10:18 AM
wayers57 doesn't remember that at one time in the United States alcohol was illegal.
It did help gangsters & crooked government officials to get rich, but it spread wanton violence in the streets.
Interestingly, coincidentally(?), it coincided with the Great Depression.
Economically when you allow people to legally partake in something, it creates legitimate jobs, business investment opportunities, safety through regulation & a potential revenue source, rather than a drain on government imposing repression upon people's free liberties.
But wayers57 is a right wing, hypocritical idiot.
It is to be expected that he supports Communist policies like liberty repressing drug restrictions. He thinks the US government should treat your body & behavior as its property.
wayers57 is not a capitalist, or a lover of liberty & freedom,
he is
a hypocrite.
a DANGEROUS hypocrite.
doctordog
10-16-2009, 12:25 PM
wayers57 doesn't remember that at one time in the United States alcohol was illegal.
It did help gangsters & crooked government officials to get rich, but it spread wanton violence in the streets.
Interestingly, coincidentally(?), it coincided with the Great Depression.
Economically when you allow people to legally partake in something, it creates legitimate jobs, business investment opportunities, safety through regulation & a potential revenue source, rather than a drain on government imposing repression upon people's free liberties.
But wayers57 is a right wing, hypocritical idiot.
It is to be expected that he supports Communist policies like liberty repressing drug restrictions. He thinks the US government should treat your body & behavior as its property.
wayers57 is not a capitalist, or a lover of liberty & freedom,
he is
a hypocrite.
a DANGEROUS hypocrite.
actually I am not, if we legalize marijuana then legalize all illegal substances including cocaine, crack, heroin, and let's legalize other vices and see where that leads us as well.
Bill Cosby
10-16-2009, 01:46 PM
actually I am not, if we legalize marijuana then legalize all illegal substances including cocaine, crack, heroin, and let's legalize other vices and see where that leads us as well.
It does not have to be all or none............
If none then no beer...............
Cause beer is legal does not mean crack has to be.........
:thumbsup:
Citizen
10-16-2009, 02:12 PM
I do not tell anyone to smoke or drink....
I tell them they are better off not............
And if they keep smoking and drinking then what would you do?
Bill Cosby
10-16-2009, 02:26 PM
What should I do.................???
It is not my place to tell them what they can & can not put in their face or arm...
If they fuck w/ me or steal etc then that should be handled & them put into programs to help them........
Citizen
10-16-2009, 03:33 PM
What should I do.................???
It is not my place to tell them what they can & can not put in their face or arm...
If they fuck w/ me or steal etc then that should be handled & them put into programs to help them........
You're beginning to sound like a libertarian. :hi: :thumbsup:
Pot doesn't do this to you...
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doctordog
10-16-2009, 06:56 PM
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CosmicRocker
10-16-2009, 06:57 PM
actually I am not, if we legalize marijuana then legalize all illegal substances including cocaine, crack, heroin, and let's legalize other vices and see where that leads us as well.
well you FINALLY made at least an intelligent statement about drug control policy. :disbelief:
Cocaine is not pot, heroin is not benzodiazapams. All true.
There are ways to serve addicts, and get them their chemical addictions satidfied , besides doing themselves and society harm.
"Harm reduction" is what we're ALL looking for, from a personal and sociological p.o.v.
Mehadone can be given to addicts who follow program policy, stay clean offf other drugs, and hold a job.
The same Iea could work, start them off having to come into a clinic for a dose, even if it's 30 times a day for crack, and eventually gew then "take homes' they would have to keep in a lockbox.
Or simply have a Dr. dispense, but in a clinic situation where uninalyisis, and other crime free facotrs have to be completed.
There are ways to work this out, we need a national discussion, and a new policy.
The one we have now just makes narco-terrorists rich, and causes crime here.
Bill Cosby
10-16-2009, 07:55 PM
You're beginning to sound like a libertarian. :hi: :thumbsup:
AAhhh gggeeee....THnX I think......lol
I use to believe that this draconian system of torment & punishment was the way to deter crime etc……
Now I believe it is in fact contributing to it…..
Look @ that clip about Norway.. k4L6-0WRfSA
(((Check out the last four mins or so of that clip))))))
Hell they treat them better than we do juvenile offenders & they have the lowest murder rate???
We have a education system & heath care system that are failing & a prison industry that is ever expanding..
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