Insurance or jail

[Smurf-Herder]

Here's a new angle. Actually, it's more like buy Insurance, double your Federal Taxes, or go to jail.

Buy Insurance or Go to Jail?

ABC News' Teddy Davis reports:

The debate over whether the federal government should require all Americans to carry health insurance is heating up.

The latest spark is a letter that Thomas Barthold, the chief of staff to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, sent Thursday to Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev.

Given that the health-care bill written by Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus contains a $1,900 fee (or excise tax) for not buying health insurance, Ensign wanted to know what would happen if an American didn't pay the penalty.

In a handwritten letter, Barthold told Ensign that under an existing provision of the Internal Revenue Code, willful failure to pay a fine can result in being charged with a misdemeanor which could carry a penalty of up to $25,000, or up to a year in jail, or both. The handwritten letter was a follow-up to an answer that Barthold gave Ensign during Thursday's mark-up of the Baucus bill.

Barthold felt that he was not as thorough during the hearing as he could be after considering the Internal Revenue Code.

During last year's campaign, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., opposed an individual mandate. In fact, he clashed repeatedly with Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., his future Secretary of State, on this issue.

Since becoming president, however, he has switched his stance and now shares Clinton's view that an individual mandate is necessary in order to achieve new federal protections for individuals with pre-existing conditions.

Pointing to experience at the state level, the insurance industry and other health-care experts persuaded Obama that insurers could not go along with a guanteed issue policy without knowing that all adults would be forced into the system.

Insurers say that if you have guaranteed issue -- which means no discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions -- without an individual mandate, people will wait until they become sick to buy insurance and the system will fail due to a lack of risk sharing.

Advocates of an individual mandate say that a requirement to buy insurance is essential because everyone is currently paying a "hidden tax" when people show up in the emergency room without insurance. (Under existing law, emergency rooms are required to treat urgent care matters without regard to ability to pay. If the patient cannot afford the bill, those costs are then passed to the government or people who have insurance in the form of higher prices).

When considering the possible jail penalty, it should be noted that President Obama envisions an individual mandate being structured with some sort of hardship exemption.

The Baucus health-care bill being considered by the Senate Finance Committee would exempt individuals who meet a government defined "unable to pay definition". There would also be an exemption for people whose religion conflicts with the mandate.

Despite the fact that there is broad support for an individual mandate among Democratic politicians, the insurance industry, many experts, and even a few Republicans, Barthold's letter potentially hands the GOP a big new weapon in the fight against Democratic efforts to overhaul the nation's health-care system.

View Barthold's letter to Ensign by clicking HERE (http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Barthold_letter.pdf).

It was scanned by Ensign's Senate office and provided to ABC News. The accuracy of its contents was confirmed by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/buy-insurance-or-go-to-jail-.html

[doctordog]

that is great news because it could kill the whole bill

[John Galt]

Clearly, there is a lot that needs to be worked out.


Forcing everyone to purchase insurance is a bit odd. I don't think there should be jailtime.

However....anyone who chooses not to comply, should be turned away from hospital, unless they bring cash/credit card.

[Smurf-Herder]

Clearly, there is a lot that needs to be worked out.


Forcing everyone to purchase insurance is a bit odd. I don't think there should be jailtime.

However....anyone who chooses not to comply, should be turned away from hospital, unless they bring cash/credit card.

But they don't get turned away now - legal US Citizens without insurance get put on a payment plan.

[MarkMiller]

This is the real stupid shit we should be screaming about....that and we need a public Option!

[foxbaron]

Maybe if we quit treating all the illegal aliens we could afford to treat our own citizens.

A public option would be fine if you could be assurred that all the illegal aliens would pay into it too.

Maybe jail time should be for the illegals who refuse to pay into it and not our own citizens.

Maybe we should throw the illegals the hell out.

Maybe Obama ought to eat shit and bark at the moon.

[MarkMiller]

Maybe if we quit treating all the illegal aliens we could afford to treat our own citizens.

A public option would be fine if you could be assurred that all the illegal aliens would pay into it too.

Maybe jail time should be for the illegals who refuse to pay into it and not our own citizens.

Maybe we should throw the illegals the hell out.

Maybe Obama ought to eat shit and bark at the moon.

OK....let's go with that.

Now what.

You have to bury the bodies.

[John Galt]

But they don't get turned away now - legal US Citizens without insurance get put on a payment plan.
That was my point.

Right now, thousands of people use the ER as their own private healthcare center. If they knew they'd be paying cash, perhaps they'd opt for the mandatory payment in the new bill.


Or...if they get put on a payment plan, as they do now, perhaps defaulting on these payment should bring a jail term?


I believe as long as you pay $1.00/month, they can't touch you now.

That should change.

[Seraphim]

What about people that are out of work, can't find jobs, and don't have enough money to buy necessities, much less make insurance payments? I'd hate to see those "with" roll over those "without". I'm not talking welfare leeches here. A lot of people in this country are in horrible jams right now. I know of three families right off.

[John Galt]

What about people that are out of work, can't find jobs, and don't have enough money to buy necessities, much less make insurance payments? I'd hate to see those "with" roll over those "without". I'm not talking welfare leeches here. A lot of people in this country are in horrible jams right now. I know of three families right off.
But...they will need healthcare at some point?


Some of my right wing thoughts coming out:

These people you speak of...do they smoke cigs?

There always seems to be money for certain things...smokes/drugs/pets...

But not other things.



The issue is complex, and perhaps those who are in a bad stretch can have alternatives to the mandates.

The mandatory charge will be per annum. Are these people going to be unemployed forever?

I can't afford insuranc3 premiums now, so I opt for a gargantuan deductible, and pay for virtually everything out of pocket.

[nobull]

Here's a new angle. Actually, it's more like buy Insurance, double your Federal Taxes, or go to jail.

Buy Insurance or Go to Jail?

ABC News' Teddy Davis reports:

The debate over whether the federal government should require all Americans to carry health insurance is heating up.

The latest spark is a letter that Thomas Barthold, the chief of staff to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, sent Thursday to Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev.

Given that the health-care bill written by Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus contains a $1,900 fee (or excise tax) for not buying health insurance, Ensign wanted to know what would happen if an American didn't pay the penalty.

In a handwritten letter, Barthold told Ensign that under an existing provision of the Internal Revenue Code, willful failure to pay a fine can result in being charged with a misdemeanor which could carry a penalty of up to $25,000, or up to a year in jail, or both. The handwritten letter was a follow-up to an answer that Barthold gave Ensign during Thursday's mark-up of the Baucus bill.

Barthold felt that he was not as thorough during the hearing as he could be after considering the Internal Revenue Code.

During last year's campaign, then-Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., opposed an individual mandate. In fact, he clashed repeatedly with Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., his future Secretary of State, on this issue.

Since becoming president, however, he has switched his stance and now shares Clinton's view that an individual mandate is necessary in order to achieve new federal protections for individuals with pre-existing conditions.

Pointing to experience at the state level, the insurance industry and other health-care experts persuaded Obama that insurers could not go along with a guanteed issue policy without knowing that all adults would be forced into the system.

Insurers say that if you have guaranteed issue -- which means no discrimination on the basis of pre-existing conditions -- without an individual mandate, people will wait until they become sick to buy insurance and the system will fail due to a lack of risk sharing.

Advocates of an individual mandate say that a requirement to buy insurance is essential because everyone is currently paying a "hidden tax" when people show up in the emergency room without insurance. (Under existing law, emergency rooms are required to treat urgent care matters without regard to ability to pay. If the patient cannot afford the bill, those costs are then passed to the government or people who have insurance in the form of higher prices).

When considering the possible jail penalty, it should be noted that President Obama envisions an individual mandate being structured with some sort of hardship exemption.

The Baucus health-care bill being considered by the Senate Finance Committee would exempt individuals who meet a government defined "unable to pay definition". There would also be an exemption for people whose religion conflicts with the mandate.

Despite the fact that there is broad support for an individual mandate among Democratic politicians, the insurance industry, many experts, and even a few Republicans, Barthold's letter potentially hands the GOP a big new weapon in the fight against Democratic efforts to overhaul the nation's health-care system.

View Barthold's letter to Ensign by clicking HERE (http://a.abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Barthold_letter.pdf).

It was scanned by Ensign's Senate office and provided to ABC News. The accuracy of its contents was confirmed by the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/09/buy-insurance-or-go-to-jail-.html

Love the way the fearmongers can streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch every bit and piece of health care reform as something potentially evil.

Tax AVOIDANCE rarely will land anyone in the slammer unless there are other crimes associated with it.

I don't think even those greedy bastards (yet to be identified) who actually EVADED income tax (which IS prosecutorial) by stuffing billions into USB/Switzerland will see any jail time. Heavy penalties in addition to coughing it up for the Treasury? I would hope so.

[nobull]

that is great news because it could kill the whole bill

Forget swine flu. We have a serious epidemic of gullible-itis going on.

[nobull]

Maybe if we quit treating all the illegal aliens we could afford to treat our own citizens.

A public option would be fine if you could be assurred that all the illegal aliens would pay into it too.

Maybe jail time should be for the illegals who refuse to pay into it and not our own citizens.

Maybe we should throw the illegals the hell out.

Maybe Obama ought to eat shit and bark at the moon.

Love your screen name. So very apropos.

[nobull]

That was my point.

Right now, thousands of people use the ER as their own private healthcare center. If they knew they'd be paying cash, perhaps they'd opt for the mandatory payment in the new bill.


Or...if they get put on a payment plan, as they do now, perhaps defaulting on these payment should bring a jail term?


I believe as long as you pay $1.00/month, they can't touch you now.

That should change.

I heard one proposal put forth by either the administrator of Cleveland Clinic or one of the others who appeared on C-Span recently who had a great idea for establishing an emergency tier system in hospital ERs. What that means is that uninsured (i.e., illegals) who use the ER for the common cold, etc., would be directed to a separate area where they would literally "take a number" for the next Physicians ASSISTANT (licensed to dispense scripts, etc.), and the real ER triage people would then be freed up to handle genuine emergencies.

The thing is, all of such proposals would be part of the hundreds of mechanisms that would be installed if feasible AFTER the general bill is passed. I see complaint after complaint about some broad language in the bill, but people aren't realizing that every single method for accomplishing every single clause is not going to appear in the basic legislation. That would be tantamount to expecting Homeland Security, established by the Patriot Act, to be detailed as to every procedure for every agency within it.

[nobull]

What about people that are out of work, can't find jobs, and don't have enough money to buy necessities, much less make insurance payments? I'd hate to see those "with" roll over those "without". I'm not talking welfare leeches here. A lot of people in this country are in horrible jams right now. I know of three families right off.

People collecting unemployment compensation are covered by Medicaid. For those who are not, there will be some sort of hardship litmus test.

[nobull]

But...they will need healthcare at some point?


Some of my right wing thoughts coming out:

These people you speak of...do they smoke cigs?

There always seems to be money for certain things...smokes/drugs/pets...

But not other things.



The issue is complex, and perhaps those who are in a bad stretch can have alternatives to the mandates.

The mandatory charge will be per annum. Are these people going to be unemployed forever?

I can't afford insuranc3 premiums now, so I opt for a gargantuan deductible, and pay for virtually everything out of pocket.

Well, there's no legislation on earth that will entirely stop people's bad habits.

[Seraphim]

But...they will need healthcare at some point?

Some of my right wing thoughts coming out:

These people you speak of...do they smoke cigs?

There always seems to be money for certain things...smokes/drugs/pets...

But not other things.


The issue is complex, and perhaps those who are in a bad stretch can have alternatives to the mandates.

The mandatory charge will be per annum. Are these people going to be unemployed forever?

I can't afford insuranc3 premiums now, so I opt for a gargantuan deductible, and pay for virtually everything out of pocket.

Some of them have needed it several times, and some of them have become unemployable because of health issues. It's like a vicious circle.

No, none of them do drugs as far as I know, and only one smokes. She's been trying to quit.