Zebulon's thread of right-wing bullshit

[Zebulon0351]

I was first... eat it bitches.

[Bill Cosby]

LOL...........

Zeb..............:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[wayers57]

If anyone cares I changed my registration to Independent today. I was ashamed to be a democrat 12 years ago, now I am finding I can't be a Republican either.

[Mr, gone]

If anyone cares I changed my registration to Independent today. I was ashamed to be a democrat 12 years ago, now I am finding I can't be a Republican either.

Good job Wayner... Iv'e sensed your displeasure with the republican party in this forum for many months. Just curious, if you had voted independent in this last election, who would have been your pick?

[Binky]

If anyone cares I changed my registration to Independent today. I was ashamed to be a democrat 12 years ago, now I am finding I can't be a Republican either.


I've been thinking of doing the same Way. This last election had pretty much made up my mind for me. I would rather vote indep. than for any particular party. :thumbsup:

[wayers57]

Good job Wayner... Iv'e sensed your displeasure with the republican party in this forum for many months. Just curious, if you had voted independent in this last election, who would have been your pick?

that is the thing, have never had an independent candidate strong enough to win. I voted McCain and would have again. Voting for the independent candidate that has no shot is a waste of time and effort. A strong marketing effort around an independent is what the country needs right now.

[MintJulep]

that is the thing, have never had an independent candidate strong enough to win. I voted McCain and would have again. Voting for the independent candidate that has no shot is a waste of time and effort. A strong marketing effort around an independent is what the country needs right now.
I agree totally.

[CosmicRocker]

I've been thinking of doing the same Way. This last election had pretty much made up my mind for me. I would rather vote indep. than for any particular party. :thumbsup:
:hero: :banana:

Count me in. Leave Party politics for the hacks.

[Zebulon0351]

I served in the Marine Corps for a total of eight years. In my time as a Marine Corps reservist, I deployed overseas three times for a total of 32 months overseas.
I am currently receiving treatment through the VA for PTSD, and have recently devoted my life to serving other veterans coming home from the combat zone. My service to veterans is my way of coping with my personal demons on a day to day basis.
As you have all read on the news I'm sure, the suicide rate of today's veterans is at record highs, and there is no signs of it slowing down. What makes this fact even more disturbing to me is the military's response to our veterans who show signs of severe PTSD, and their decision to send them back to the war zone.

I have personally known three amazing men with who I have served who have taken their own lives. One in the combat zone, and two after returning home to their families.

I am getting sick of burying Marines who have fought so honorably beside me. It is one thing if they died fighting wearing the uniform of the country they served, but a totally different thing if they kill themselves feeling there is no other option.

Take my friend Jeff Lucey for example:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jeff tried to get help at the VA hospital just to be turned away being told he had to quit drinking before they could help him with his PTSD.
Again: The VA recognized his suicidal risk, but told him he had to quit drinking first
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/mental/articles/2005/03/01/jeff_lucey_returned_from_iraq_a_changed_man_then_h e_killed_himself/

788

And now, the Army's top Psychiatrist, Elspeth Ritchie, is turning a blind eye to the increased suicides in the Army saying they have found no link between multiple deployments and the increased suicides in our military.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf030809-2.htm

It sounds to me like this bitch (Binky: I would use another word starting with a "C" and ending in "t" but I don't want to piss you off) is trying to wipe the Army's hands clean of the obvious problem facing our troops once they return home.


So.. do you guys really support the troops? Call your fucking Senator and tell him/her to do something about this. Supporting the troops means so much more than throwing a magnet on the back of your car and proclaiming it on internet message boards. Our veterans are one of our country's greatest asset. It is one thing to support them when they are overseas, but you are a true patriot if you stand up for them once they come home.

They deserve it, and as citizens, it is our duty to take care of them.

[SeniorChief]

I served in the Marine Corps for a total of eight years.

We know.

We're reminded every other hour by you asshole.

[Zebulon0351]

We know.

We're reminded every other hour by you asshole.

I challenge you to find 15 posts of my 1,000 on this site to where I mentioned I served in the Marines. That is less than 1.5% of all my total posts. If you want to throw that out there, prove it. If you can't, crawl back into your hole.

[foxbaron]

I served in the Marine Corps for a total of eight years. In my time as a Marine Corps reservist, I deployed overseas three times for a total of 32 months overseas.
I am currently receiving treatment through the VA for PTSD, and have recently devoted my life to serving other veterans coming home from the combat zone. My service to veterans is my way of coping with my personal demons on a day to day basis.
As you have all read on the news I'm sure, the suicide rate of today's veterans is at record highs, and there is no signs of it slowing down. What makes this fact even more disturbing to me is the military's response to our veterans who show signs of severe PTSD, and their decision to send them back to the war zone.

I have personally known three amazing men with who I have served who have taken their own lives. One in the combat zone, and two after returning home to their families.

I am getting sick of burying Marines who have fought so honorably beside me. It is one thing if they died fighting wearing the uniform of the country they served, but a totally different thing if they kill themselves feeling there is no other option.

Take my friend Jeff Lucey for example:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jeff tried to get help at the VA hospital just to be turned away being told he had to quit drinking before they could help him with his PTSD.
Again: The VA recognized his suicidal risk, but told him he had to quit drinking first
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/mental/articles/2005/03/01/jeff_lucey_returned_from_iraq_a_changed_man_then_h e_killed_himself/

788

And now, the Army's top Psychiatrist, Elspeth Ritchie, is turning a blind eye to the increased suicides in the Army saying they have found no link between multiple deployments and the increased suicides in our military.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf030809-2.htm

It sounds to me like this bitch (Binky: I would use another word starting with a "C" and ending in "t" but I don't want to piss you off) is trying to wipe the Army's hands clean of the obvious problem facing our troops once they return home.


So.. do you guys really support the troops? Call your fucking Senator and tell him/her to do something about this. Supporting the troops means so much more than throwing a magnet on the back of your car and proclaiming it on internet message boards. Our veterans are one of our country's greatest asset. It is one thing to support them when they are overseas, but you are a true patriot if you stand up for them once they come home.

They deserve it, and as citizens, it is our duty to take care of them.


Thanks for your service to this country. You are right the VA system is worthless which is why any veteran needing care should be given an identification card similar to a credit card that he can use at any hospital or doctor worldwide and, yes, we the people, then pay for their care at whatever the going rate is. We owe them that, at the least. The VA is too incompetent to provide care to our warriors.

Now let me ask you something about PTSD. Do you suffer from it because of what you saw over there or had to do over there? OR is your PTSD a result of having served in a situation where you not only risked your life every day but also had the power of life and death over others? Where you learned firsthand the value of another's life. Is your PTSD a result of coming back to a world that doesn't seem to give one wit what you did or had to do and seems to only be concerned with their own personal wants and needs? Does your PTSD come from coming home and suddenly finding you have all these responsibilities you didn't have to worry about when you were over there?

Is it a result of coming back to a country that doesn't seem to appreciate your sacrifices and degrades your service constantly in the media? Do you get the feeling you risked your life for nothing?

How does the VA treat you for PTSD, drugs? Interviews with a psychiatrist who has no clue what you are talking about because he has never been there, done that, earned the T-Shirt?

What personal demons do you have? Bet this group of wackos could get rid of them for you.

They should rename PTSD - (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrom to):
PTSD - (Pissed To Some Degree). Some are just more pissed than others, how pissed are you?

Let us know. See if the liberals here have a clue what you are talking about.

[Zebulon0351]

Thanks for your service to this country. You are right the VA system is worthless which is why any veteran needing care should be given an identification card similar to a credit card that he can use at any hospital or doctor worldwide and, yes, we the people, then pay for their care at whatever the going rate is. We owe them that, at the least. The VA is too incompetent to provide care to our warriors.

Now let me ask you something about PTSD. Do you suffer from it because of what you saw over there or had to do over there? OR is your PTSD a result of having served in a situation where you not only risked your life every day but also had the power of life and death over others? Where you learned firsthand the value of another's life. Is your PTSD a result of coming back to a world that doesn't seem to give one wit what you did or had to do and seems to only be concerned with their own personal wants and needs? Does your PTSD come from coming home and suddenly finding you have all these responsibilities you didn't have to worry about when you were over there?

Is it a result of coming back to a country that doesn't seem to appreciate your sacrifices and degrades your service constantly in the media? Do you get the feeling you risked your life for nothing?

How does the VA treat you for PTSD, drugs? Interviews with a psychiatrist who has no clue what you are talking about because he has never been there, done that, earned the T-Shirt?

What personal demons do you have? Bet this group of wackos could get rid of them for you.

They should rename PTSD - (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrom to):
PTSD - (Pissed To Some Degree). Some are just more pissed than others, how pissed are you?

Let us know. See if the liberals here have a clue what you are talking about.

I don't want to talk about the details in here, but an "all of the above" could be an appropriate response. My experiences overseas led to me being pissed off at the VA and at current government policies.

[wayers57]

Zeb, I know several people around here that served in Vietnam and Korea. Was this disorder diagnosed back then? If so what was the protocol then? Did they track cases of it back then?

It seems members of the public heard very little about this until Desert Storm and now we are hearing it a lot.

[Zebulon0351]

Zeb, I know several people around here that served in Vietnam and Korea. Was this disorder diagnosed back then? If so what was the protocol then? Did they track cases of it back then?

It seems members of the public heard very little about this until Desert Storm and now we are hearing it a lot.


Walk into a VFW or an American Legion and ask them if it existed back then. I don't think there was an actual diagnosis, but between what happened in Vietnam and the poor "welcome home" they received when they returned to their home-towns makes it understandable why some are still traumatized even today.

And keep in mind, there were no major conflicts we were involved in between Vietnam and The Gulf War.

[Bill Cosby]

Zeb, I know several people around here that served in Vietnam and Korea. Was this disorder diagnosed back then? If so what was the protocol then? Did they track cases of it back then?

It seems members of the public heard very little about this until Desert Storm and now we are hearing it a lot.

I have thought about that a lot.... I think in part these symptoms were there "we just didn't know it"....

I can think of numerous issues were they may not have ever been diagnosed w/ this they certainly had issues...... Drunks, homeless, druggies, anti-social etc.......... & now we can add suicide rates skyrocketing...

I think in large part this is not knew @ all, just that we are now just coming to realize it..

Some would have had issues regardless but I think anyone that has been through trauma is going to have some effects......... Killing ppl & seeing your friends killed is going to have an effect on ppl.........

[wayers57]

I have thought about that a lot.... I think in part these symptoms were there "we just didn't know it"....

I can think of numerous issues were they may not have ever been diagnosed w/ this they certainly had issues...... Drunks, homeless, druggies, anti-social etc.......... & now we can add suicide rates skyrocketing...

I think in large part this is not knew @ all, just that we are now just coming to realize it..

Some would have had issues regardless but I think anyone that has been through trauma is going to have some effects......... Killing ppl & seeing your friends killed is going to have an effect on ppl.........

I know a man that is in his mid 70's that talks about mass graves with bodies and dead kids with the scared looks on their faces when they were shot, it almost brings tears to your eyes.

[Bill Cosby]

Walk into a VFW or an American Legion and ask them if it existed back then. I don't think there was an actual diagnosis, but between what happened in Vietnam and the poor "welcome home" they received when they returned to their home-towns makes it understandable why some are still traumatized even today.

And keep in mind, there were no major conflicts we were involved in between Vietnam and The Gulf War.

I have a good friend that works a lot w/ vets, the VA & has been doing so for many, many years.....

First thing he says when I see him is "I am fighting with the VA"....

I talk to any vets I can now that have been in IraQ & or Afghanistan... Horry stories for the most part....

I have a friend whoes son has been back for two year or so.... He had a explosive device go off about 6 ft above his head...

Loss of consciousness, & his brain was bleeding for a long time after coming back...

He drank heavily, & I mean fucking heavy... He said he could not sleep more than a few hours w/out waking up screaming so he got plastered every night... I am talking a 750 of Jimmy Beam & a 12 pack or Corona & a couple packs of cigarettes.. For over a year.....

he cut back alot & started back to school & was doing well for a while now he is drinking again but not as much.... I try to talk to him but he doesn't want to hear it... His brother went in the service & is now in IraQ in a tank...

He tried to talk him out of it..... He wouldn't listen either...

[Bill Cosby]

I know a man that is in his mid 70's that talks about mass graves with bodies and dead kids with the scared looks on their faces when they were shot, it almost brings tears to your eyes.

The friend of mind that wroks w/ the vets & va is 86 years old & is driven to help these guys that he feels were ignored or not given their do for what they went through. He was in WW2 & I think Korea..

When I was a small kid we had an uncle. We called uncle drunk... He was not really an uncle but was my grandmothers brother-inlaw... In my family they were all an aunt or uncle, regardless of how far removed.....lol

He would have good times & mostly bad till he was unable to work... We never really understood @ the time what the hell he was talking about but I learned later on why...

He was a trainer.... He taught the troops @ some type of flight school.... He would ramble on & on about the kids he sent to their deaths... Sometimes saying names & weeping... It was always the same kinda thing.... He never got over it...

[Frankg]

I served in the Marine Corps for a total of eight years. In my time as a Marine Corps reservist, I deployed overseas three times for a total of 32 months overseas.
I am currently receiving treatment through the VA for PTSD, and have recently devoted my life to serving other veterans coming home from the combat zone. My service to veterans is my way of coping with my personal demons on a day to day basis.
As you have all read on the news I'm sure, the suicide rate of today's veterans is at record highs, and there is no signs of it slowing down. What makes this fact even more disturbing to me is the military's response to our veterans who show signs of severe PTSD, and their decision to send them back to the war zone.

I have personally known three amazing men with who I have served who have taken their own lives. One in the combat zone, and two after returning home to their families.

I am getting sick of burying Marines who have fought so honorably beside me. It is one thing if they died fighting wearing the uniform of the country they served, but a totally different thing if they kill themselves feeling there is no other option.

Take my friend Jeff Lucey for example:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jeff tried to get help at the VA hospital just to be turned away being told he had to quit drinking before they could help him with his PTSD.
Again: The VA recognized his suicidal risk, but told him he had to quit drinking first
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/mental/articles/2005/03/01/jeff_lucey_returned_from_iraq_a_changed_man_then_h e_killed_himself/

788

And now, the Army's top Psychiatrist, Elspeth Ritchie, is turning a blind eye to the increased suicides in the Army saying they have found no link between multiple deployments and the increased suicides in our military.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf030809-2.htm

It sounds to me like this bitch (Binky: I would use another word starting with a "C" and ending in "t" but I don't want to piss you off) is trying to wipe the Army's hands clean of the obvious problem facing our troops once they return home.


So.. do you guys really support the troops? Call your fucking Senator and tell him/her to do something about this. Supporting the troops means so much more than throwing a magnet on the back of your car and proclaiming it on internet message boards. Our veterans are one of our country's greatest asset. It is one thing to support them when they are overseas, but you are a true patriot if you stand up for them once they come home.

They deserve it, and as citizens, it is our duty to take care of them.

Is this the right wing bullshit you were talking about in the the title of the thread ?

Please explain the connection.

[foxbaron]

I think PTSD is a political term assigned to to a condition that is a result of the failure of our politicians to stand behind our troops to the bitter end.

It is also a result of our media constantly finding ways to blame our troops for alleged atrocities and to degrade them at every turn.

It is also a result of our failure to require mandatory military service for every male in this country. Since our volunteer military and our former shame of a draft very few males in this society know what it means to stand up and be counted.

I don't know of a single former military member that isn't pisssed of at the VA or our government for failing to care for our veterans and to at least have their backs when they need it most; after they come home.

We send our guys to fight and die (and now our women too) in foreign lands and our politicians then micro-manage the wars we send them to fight and then we wonder why they have problems.

I don't think it is that they had to kill others that bothers them as much but the carnage they see of what the enemy has done to the innocent. They know that no one, other than a former military person, understands what they have experienced.

They are scared, they are proud, they are well trained and their adrenaline is at a peak, all the time. Their decisions mean the difference between life and death and sometimes things don't go well and their comrades die and they die in front of them and in their arms and it seems that the majority of the people back home really don't care and are quick to condemn them for their actions.

Sometimes they make mistakes and kill an innocent person in their quest to just survive the day. It's called war. Stuff happens and it usually happens quickly. There is little time to weigh options, all you can do is react and depend on your training to get you through. The last thing you need is some rear echelon puke or media guy second guessing your attempt to survive. They were not there, you were. Who the hell are they to judge you?

Next thing you know you are back in the world and you have to make decisions like, what bill to pay, when to go to the store, what to buy, when to pick up the kids, what family function is happening this weekend, why you shouldn't choke the shit out of the punk in the car next to you who is acting like an asshole. Decisions that have little meaning to you whatsoever. You used to make life and death decisions just last week. Decisions that determined whether or not you survived let alone your buddies and now all you have left to decide is mundane crap that you could care less about and which you know you will be making the rest of your life. It almost makes you want to return to the battlefield where decisions actually mean something and have real consequences.

You see a media that condemns you and your former teammates at every turn. You talk to others in your community who don't have even half a clue of what it is like to have stood in your shoes. The majority of your co-workers never served a day in the military and they are going to tell you why the military sucks and all the bad things your military has done.

It is no wonder why you can't adjust back to the world. The world sucks and you are not allowed to cull the herd.

[Mr, gone]

IMO a soldier is merely a pawn, that in the government's eyes is used to toss around as they please. As I grow older this belief is continously reinforced by how these unfortunate people are treated post combat. It is actually quite disgusting...

These seemily perpetual wars that are started by the US are needed to keep the military/industrial machine running! We could and SHOULD be protecting our soil HERE! However, this approach would obviously reduce by far the size of our military - and would run counter-productive to the govrernment's agenda. These times are no more violent than throughout most of history. It only appears this way in the bloated slobbering masses vision via media perversion (war on "enter whatever here ").

History is doomed to repeat itself, unless a badly needed dose of enlightenment somehow manifest within humanity.:disbelief:

[Zebulon0351]

Is this the right wing bullshit you were talking about in the the title of the thread ?

Please explain the connection.

The title of the thread was all I could think of when I created it. But the shoe does seem to fit: look at all of the cuts to VA spending that happened in the months leading up to the Iraq war.

[Binky]

I served in the Marine Corps for a total of eight years. In my time as a Marine Corps reservist, I deployed overseas three times for a total of 32 months overseas.
I am currently receiving treatment through the VA for PTSD, and have recently devoted my life to serving other veterans coming home from the combat zone. My service to veterans is my way of coping with my personal demons on a day to day basis.
As you have all read on the news I'm sure, the suicide rate of today's veterans is at record highs, and there is no signs of it slowing down. What makes this fact even more disturbing to me is the military's response to our veterans who show signs of severe PTSD, and their decision to send them back to the war zone.

I have personally known three amazing men with who I have served who have taken their own lives. One in the combat zone, and two after returning home to their families.

I am getting sick of burying Marines who have fought so honorably beside me. It is one thing if they died fighting wearing the uniform of the country they served, but a totally different thing if they kill themselves feeling there is no other option.

Take my friend Jeff Lucey for example:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ktAvNuJyCHw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Jeff tried to get help at the VA hospital just to be turned away being told he had to quit drinking before they could help him with his PTSD.
Again: The VA recognized his suicidal risk, but told him he had to quit drinking first
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/mental/articles/2005/03/01/jeff_lucey_returned_from_iraq_a_changed_man_then_h e_killed_himself/

788

And now, the Army's top Psychiatrist, Elspeth Ritchie, is turning a blind eye to the increased suicides in the Army saying they have found no link between multiple deployments and the increased suicides in our military.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf030809-2.htm

It sounds to me like this bitch (Binky: I would use another word starting with a "C" and ending in "t" but I don't want to piss you off) is trying to wipe the Army's hands clean of the obvious problem facing our troops once they return home.


So.. do you guys really support the troops? Call your fucking Senator and tell him/her to do something about this. Supporting the troops means so much more than throwing a magnet on the back of your car and proclaiming it on internet message boards. Our veterans are one of our country's greatest asset. It is one thing to support them when they are overseas, but you are a true patriot if you stand up for them once they come home.

They deserve it, and as citizens, it is our duty to take care of them.


I commend you Zeb, for wanting to help these individuals. And I am so sorry your friend killed himself. I have to say, even tho' I don't talk about it as it's still a very open wound for myself and my family, that my son, was in the army for three years. During that time, he and a bunch of his pals, took up drinking. He had never been a drinker. Period... Anyway, I have pic's of them slugging down full blown bottles of vodka and rum, straight out of the bottle. He even told us how much he was drinking. He drank so much while in the military, he continued to do so long after he got out. In 2004 and thru part of '05, he had seriously tried to stop drinking. However, he had pickled his brain by then. He would ramble and talk wild about whatever. So very unlike what he had been like before he took up drinking.

About three weeks before July 4th, 2006, he came to the house, and I could see he was distressed as he was acting very strangely. It was around nine a.m on a Sat. When I went out to his truck to see what he wanted, he rambled on and on and I told him to go back home and lie down and rest as he'd stayed up all night. While talking to him, I noticed a long box propped up against his seat, but my mind didn't pick up on it until much later. He was acting as tho' he was experiencing the DT's from all the booze he had ingested over 12 agonizing years. He backed out and left. Then a few minutes later, I happened to look out the front window in my living room and saw his truck going into the woods across from our home. We live in a very wooded area. I could see thru the trees that his truck had stopped, so I ran across the road to where he was parked. He was wandering around talking to himself, as though his mind was tortured. Not knowing what in the heck he was going to do, I managed to finally get him talked into going home. Or so I thought.

Anyway, my hubby and family and a friend of ours were at the house later that afternoon. My son was late showing up. We were all going to sit and play cards and have a nice meal. My hubby began getting worried and he and our friend took off to see why our son hadn't yet arrived.

About an hour later, they came back, without my son, and made me sit down. I knew then what had happened. My son, Bill, had driven to the gas station across the highway from where he lived, pulled off to a vacant area, and made the decision to take his life. That long flat box propped up in his truck, had been a semi automatic machine gun. He had placed it under his chin and pulled the trigger. My hubby and friend found him leaned off to one side thinking he had fallen asleep. Upon inspection, they found him dead. No one had heard the shot. No one inquired about a truck sitting there. We had tried getting him to go get some help long before he killed himself. But he was full of pride and this is a small town. So my hubby called the cops and it was all over and done with and the newspaper never found out about it.

My point is, there is no telling what demons he had been carrying around in his mind. You can't force someone to get help. They have to want to do it for themselves. My son was 38 years old. It has forever broken our hearts.

If my mind had picked up on that box and figured out what it was, and asked to look at it, and then remove it from him, he would still be alive today. That is my cross to bear. The one time in my life when I SHOULD have been paying more attention to detail, I hadn't. And now it's long past being too late. For that, I will never be able to forgive myself.

[foxbaron]

Binky:

Forgive yourself and him too.

You are not responsible for his demons and neither is he.

Things happen in life that we have no control over and you cannot blame yourself for something you cannot control.

Do not blame yourself, your son or any member of your family. Blame a society that has, for too long, failed to appreciate the service others have given to them.

Blame a society and a media that have treated our veterans with little or no respect for their personal sacrifices and dedication to the security of our nation.

Be proud, damn proud of your son. He answered the call when others wouldn't. He didn't have to join up, but he did. That says volumes about the character of the man.

Your son was a man of character, honor and a sense of duty. That is priceless. You cannot put a value on that.

Where he served and what he did, is not what matters, what matters is, he did serve and he served all of us, and there isn't a veteran out here that doesn't respect his service and honor his memory as a veteran of our armed services.

The manner in which he died does not matter to us, he was a member of a "band of brothers" and he will be respected by us, forever.

Be proud of the fact that you and your "hubby" raised a man of character, integrity and honor. A man that put others before himself. A man that believed in freedom and honor and duty, otherwise he would have never signed up. This took courage on his part. So few have the backbone to be willing to go into harms way on our behalf. One does no sign up for the military these days without knowing that they most likely will be going into harms way. This takes guts. This is honorable and we thank God there are still those left that will make this decision.

Be proud, DAMN PROUD, that he stood up for us. We are proud of him.

[Binky]

Binky:

Forgive yourself and him too.

You are not responsible for his demons and neither is he.

Things happen in life that we have no control over and you cannot blame yourself for something you cannot control.

Do not blame yourself, your son or any member of your family. Blame a society that has, for too long, failed to appreciate the service others have given to them.

Blame a society and a media that have treated our veterans with little or no respect for their personal sacrifices and dedication to the security of our nation.

Be proud, damn proud of your son. He answered the call when others wouldn't. He didn't have to join up, but he did. That says volumes about the character of the man.

Your son was a man of character, honor and a sense of duty. That is priceless. You cannot put a value on that.

Where he served and what he did, is not what matters, what matters is, he did serve and he served all of us, and there isn't a veteran out here that doesn't respect his service and honor his memory as a veteran of our armed services.

The manner in which he died does not matter to us, he was a member of a "band of brothers" and he will be respected by us, forever.

Be proud of the fact that you and your "hubby" raised a man of character, integrity and honor. A man that put others before himself. A man that believed in freedom and honor and duty, otherwise he would have never signed up. This took courage on his part. So few have the backbone to be willing to go into harms way on our behalf. One does no sign up for the military these days without knowing that they most likely will be going into harms way. This takes guts. This is honorable and we thank God there are still those left that will make this decision.

Be proud, DAMN PROUD, that he stood up for us. We are proud of him.


Foxbaron,

Thank you so much for your kind words. Upon reading them it occured to me that you are right. That of which, considering all that went down, I had forgotten. My son was a man of integrity, courage, honorable and loved the freedom we have and was duty bound to serve.

I was proud of him then and I still am today. His death has taken its toll on my family and myself. But God has made us the strong individuals that we are. And for whatever it is worth, my humor, has made me even stronger. I have that to carry me thru all the bleak days without my boy....

Again, FB, I appreciate your kindhearted words. I shall not forget them. Nor shall I ever again, let my mind forget the man of character my son was.....

[Zebulon0351]

Foxbaron,

Thank you so much for your kind words. Upon reading them it occured to me that you are right. That of which, considering all that went down, I had forgotten. My son was a man of integrity, courage, honorable and loved the freedom we have and was duty bound to serve.

I was proud of him then and I still am today. His death has taken its toll on my family and myself. But God has made us the strong individuals that we are. And for whatever it is worth, my humor, has made me even stronger. I have that to carry me thru all the bleak days without my boy....

Again, FB, I appreciate your kindhearted words. I shall not forget them. Nor shall I ever again, let my mind forget the man of character my son was.....

I have not realized you have posted this until this morning. I am sorry you had to go through that with your son.

I know we don't see eye-to-eye very much on this site, but please know I respect the hell out of you and your family for what you have been through and overcome. As FB said, please know that it was he who made the decision to end his life and there was absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent his actions.
However, this is a story that needs to be told if you feel you are in the right state of mind to do so. Thank you for sharing your personal story with us, you and your family will be in my prayers.

[Hog Trash]

We know.

We're reminded every other hour by you asshole.A liberal marine?!...Whata joke!...Next he'll be telling us he's a fuckin queer!

That's kinda like Peewee Herman being heavy weight champion of the world.

[Zebulon0351]

A liberal marine?!...Whata joke!...Next he'll be telling us he's a fuckin queer!

That's kinda like Peewee Herman being heavy weight champion of the world.

Ok, so standing up and serving your country is only something reserved for Conservatives? Please tell me when that rule came into play. I love it how military experience to you only applies if the veteran sees only your viewpoint of politics.

We all bleed red brother.

[wayers57]

The title of the thread was all I could think of when I created it. But the shoe does seem to fit: look at all of the cuts to VA spending that happened in the months leading up to the Iraq war.

Look into how Clinton cut the DOD in half and did away with 100,000+ jobs to come up with his surplus. His cuts cost many lives in our Military.

[Zebulon0351]

Look into how Clinton cut the DOD in half and did away with 100,000+ jobs to come up with his surplus. His cuts cost many lives in our Military.

No more lives than the 5,000+ Bush is responsible for.. and he left office with a deficit.

Your point is moot.

[Hog Trash]

Ok, so standing up and serving your country is only something reserved for Conservatives? Please tell me when that rule came into play. I love it how military experience to you only applies if the veteran sees only your viewpoint of politics.

We all bleed red brother.Liberals are weak dependent people.

Evidence of this is in their desire for a nanny government to provide for and protect them.

Weak dependent people make weak ineffective warriors.

Weak ineffective warriors are a danger to themselves, others and the mission.

[Binky]

I have not realized you have posted this until this morning. I am sorry you had to go through that with your son.

I know we don't see eye-to-eye very much on this site, but please know I respect the hell out of you and your family for what you have been through and overcome. As FB said, please know that it was he who made the decision to end his life and there was absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent his actions.
However, this is a story that needs to be told if you feel you are in the right state of mind to do so. Thank you for sharing your personal story with us, you and your family will be in my prayers.



That's alright Zeb, I realized you had many more important things to do than to write back to me.

As for us not seeing eye to eye, well, dear, that could be said of myself and many others on here. I am not one to hold grudges as I like to move on and keep things more elevated and in a lighter mood.... since this is a political board, one has to expect that when opening your mouth and saying something the whole world can read, there's a darn good chance you'll get slammed on occasion. It comes with the territory.

Well, hon, I HAVE just told it so all the world can read it. That is the first time I've broached the subject in the three years he's been dead. And I thank God my family and I are very strong people. We have our humor to lead us along and pull us out of any depression we may feel coming on....

Thanks again, for getting back to me. And for your concern...... And FYI Zeb, I find you a very intelligent and caring man....You will do extremely well in life........Don't take life so seriously and rely more on humor to get you thru the rough spells.......

[wayers57]

No more lives than the 5,000+ Bush is responsible for.. and he left office with a deficit.

Your point is moot.

And you are surprised since the Military equipment has to be built from scratch again. Keep supporting Obama and next time we go to war it will be like Poland when they fought the Germans on horses.

[Bill Cosby]

Liberals are weak dependent people.

Evidence of this is in their desire for a nanny government to provide for and protect them.

Weak dependent people make weak ineffective warriors.

Weak ineffective warriors are a danger to themselves, others and the mission.

neo-cons are weak dependent people.

Evidence of this is in their desire for a nanny government to provide for and protect them, especially if they have offices on wall street, madison ave etc...:thumbsup:

Weak dependent people make weak ineffective capitialist but it is good to know that are tax dollars are @ their beck & call should they need them to save their jobs... NOT OURS!!!

[wayers57]

neo-cons are weak dependent people.

Evidence of this is in their desire for a nanny government to provide for and protect them, especially if they have offices on wall street, madison ave etc...:thumbsup:

Weak dependent people make weak ineffective capitialist but it is good to know that are tax dollars are @ their beck & call should they need them to save their jobs... NOT OURS!!!

I think UHC is proving who the weak and lazy are and also which base they cling to.:thumbsup:

[Bill Cosby]

I think UHC is proving who the weak and lazy are and also which base they cling to.:thumbsup:

Well hopefully you are right & after the big speech tomorrow there is something left to cling on to...

I am one of those that believe if he abandons it or he allows his party to abandon that it he/they can all kiss my ass...:hi:

& there yea have it...:thumbsup:

:D

[Zebulon0351]

I think UHC is proving who the weak and lazy are and also which base they cling to.:thumbsup:

I can think of many white-trash rednecks who love to smack-talk Obama that I know are uninsured who would benefit from UHC. Don't think it's just liberals who would benefit from it.