Loyalty To A Political Party

[Mr. Blue]

I've often wondered why people end up so fervently loyal to a political party. At times I feel like I've been left out of some really cool club because I'm too stubborn to look at people through rose colored glasses.

I was reading over Cindy Sheehan's Resignation letter today

http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_24669.shtml

While I'm not here to discuss Cindy Sheehan (even though it might be a topic for another thread, lol). I am here to discuss her realization of how both parties will turn on you if you lay into them with criticism, they'll set lose this fanatic machine of loyalists that will go to destroy you, belittle you, do every type of slur on you because you've dared to question the "PARTY"

Have we become a nation of mindless fanatics where loyalty need prevail in all situations?

Personally I'm a bit disheartened at times with the thought that people are so loyal to a political party that they can't find fault in their own party. Have you ever watched a news show, whether it's Republican or Democrat answering the question...if there is criticism about the party their first point of argument is this smoke screen of, "The Other Party Is Just as Bad"....no, no, don't do that shit, that's a way to avoid the question.

So can someone explain fanatic party loyalty to me, because I really don't get it. Maybe it's just a case of the Sneetches (yes a Dr. Seuss reference) or maybe this is the new religion.

[Bill]

I think it's based on ancient mammalian algorithims from deep in the brain.

Similar to the way religion works, or loyalty to a sports team.

It's a perceived way to benefit the individual - loyalty to the herd and the pack above all else, because if you aren't loyal, the herd will turn on you and throw you to the wolves.

It's what happens naturally, but it's especially bad among people who refuse to use the top and front of their brains, whose forebrains are comparitively underdeveloped, and who avoid education, reading, and gathering new information.

[Moby]

I am loyal to my ideas and I will pursue ideas that benefit my family. As my ideas evolve so does the party that I support. I think blindly supporting a party is simply easy and keeps people from having to actually think.

20 years ago most republicans were against big government and not having a billion laws governing the people. That's no longer the case and I don't understand why they still manage to get so much support.

When Reagan stood for smaller government, keeping government out of our daily lives and spoke about responsible spending I supported him.

I knew George H. would not follow these ideas so I refused to support him.

Clinton supported these ideas and I voted for him twice.

Dubya is against these ideas more then anyone in the free world so he will never get my support.

I don't see Hillary following my ideas or anyone that wins with the support of the neocons. That leaves me in a very bad spot right now and is the main reason why party politics SUCK almost as much as those that blindly follow a party even when the party's ideas have changed.

[kres24GT]

I am loyal to my ideas and I will pursue ideas that benefit my family. As my ideas evolve so does the party that I support. I think blindly supporting a party is simply easy and keeps people from having to actually think.

20 years ago most republicans were against big government and not having a billion laws governing the people. That's no longer the case and I don't understand why they still manage to get so much support.

When Reagan stood for smaller government, keeping government out of our daily lives and spoke about responsible spending I supported him.

I knew George H. would not follow these ideas so I refused to support him.

Clinton supported these ideas and I voted for him twice.

Dubya is against these ideas more then anyone in the free world so he will never get my support.

I don't see Hillary following my ideas or anyone that wins with the support of the neocons. That leaves me in a very bad spot right now and is the main reason why party politics SUCK almost as much as those that blindly follow a party even when the party's ideas have changed.


No candidates will run on limited government because they would get destroyed. Today the only way to get elected is to pander to the people with problems only government can solve. The only one currently running who won't increase the size of government is Ron Paul.

Americans have been brainwashed in governmetn schools and by the sensational media to believe government is the solution to every problem.

[Tommy]

the party system is broke in this country

[Mr. Blue]

I don't see Hillary following my ideas or anyone that wins with the support of the neocons. That leaves me in a very bad spot right now and is the main reason why party politics SUCK almost as much as those that blindly follow a party even when the party's ideas have changed.

Honestly I've never been pleased with the two political parties, but at least when I was growing up there was some sense about it. Now it almost seems like both parties have become caricatures of themselves or they cater to this small, but highly active minority core in their party and they let them dictate the platform of the party.

btw, this thread was a result of me having some friends over for dinner. A few republicans, a few democrats, and me moderating in between. Everything was going fine when we talked about sports, music, general stuff...but touch on politics and it all got kind of angry, lol.

I don't mind political debate, but I'm so relaxed I'm almost comatose when I discuss things...it was kind of scary to see just how, umm, crazy people get regarding their party.

[juggernaut]

Mr. Blue I think the answer to your question is simple. Most Americans hate being wrong. They hate being wrong multiple times. So what do they do when they are wrong and can't face the music? They just blindly disregard it and go about their lives like a sheep. When it comes to their party, if they are wrong, they skate around issues avoiding the proof they are wrong. Most will move to another issue that proves the other party wrong and this process goes on and on, till someone just gets tired and ends the conversation. I always thought it was a stupid idea to be "Registered" for what ever party. Hearing people say "I'm a registered democrat or republican" always made me think, so the fuck what? It's like some stupid badge of honor that people toss out in conversations. Just being a registered voter should be enough. Last Christmas I was at a party with a bunch of fucked up people, a conversation started about politics and I kept hearing everyone start their intro with "I'm a registered (insert party here)" line. I was sitting with my wife drinking my jack and coke and someone asked me what I thought. Honestly I did not feel like talking politics that night and barely knew these people. So my answer (which went over really well) was "I'm a registered sex offender" LOL. It's not true but I figured I would ruin the whole conversation and toss it out there. I told them I'm all for online voting but only for live cam girls. lol. Needless to say my friend who invited me was just a little pissed off lol.

My dad is one of these blind people but is slowly turning. It wasn't until last year that you could see and hear his frustration in the current leader. But if you spoke with him 2 years ago he would not listen to anything bad, just would not hear it at all. He would leave the room really pissed off. Once again I just think it's peoples embarrassment for being wrong, and it hurts them more when they start to see, hear and know they are wrong. I always thought it made you stronger if you could admit you were wrong and move on. Learn from it and let it make you wiser. But in America people just hate being wrong. I still think the smartest politician we ever had was GW. George Washington. Why? Cause he refused to run for a third term. Now if we had a guy like him in office I would be very proud to state I was a member of his party. Sure he had his faults but when you look at how he foresaw things to come and acted as such. You can do nothing but want to be in the company of a man like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_washington#Presidency:_1789.E2.80.931797

Washington was elected unanimously by the Electoral College in 1789, and he remains the only person ever to be elected president unanimously (a feat which he duplicated in the 1792 election). As runner-up with 34 votes (each elector cast two votes), John Adams became vice president. Washington took the oath of office as the first President on April 30, 1789 at Federal Hall in New York City although he never wanted the position in the beginning.[17]

The First U.S. Congress voted to pay Washington a salary of $25,000 a year—a large sum in 1789. Washington, already wealthy, declined the salary, since he valued his image as a selfless public servant. At the urging of Congress, however, he ultimately accepted the payment. A dangerous precedent could have been set otherwise, as the founding fathers wanted future presidents to come from a large pool of potential candidates - not just those citizens that could afford to do the work for free.

Washington attended carefully to the pomp and ceremony of office, making sure that the titles and trappings were suitably republican and never emulated European royal courts. To that end, he preferred the title "Mr. President" to the more majestic names suggested.

Washington proved an able administrator. An excellent delegator and judge of talent and character, he held regular cabinet meetings, which debated issues; he then made the final decision and moved on. In handling routine tasks, he was "systematic, orderly, energetic, solicitous of the opinion of others but decisive, intent upon general goals and the consistency of particular actions with them."[18]

Washington only reluctantly agreed to serve a second term of office as president. He refused to run for a third, establishing the precedent of a maximum of two terms for a president.[19]

[Tommy]

btw, this thread was a result of me having some friends over for dinner. A few republicans, a few democrats, and me moderating in between. Everything was going fine when we talked about sports, music, general stuff...but touch on politics and it all got kind of angry, lol.




ohh how I love pissing repugs off with my politicial views

[Linkster]

I think the most interesting part about Washington was his response when before accepting the nomination for president, it was suggested by many members of the Continental Congress to have him instated as the "Dictator" - his response was that he had just spent years fighting against one dictator named George - not to replace him with another named George :) - causing congress to have to come up with the idea of a president of the republic as part of writing the new constitution

[kres24GT]

I think the most interesting part about Washington was his response when before accepting the nomination for president, it was suggested by many members of the Continental Congress to have him instated as the "Dictator" - his response was that he had just spent years fighting against one dictator named George - not to replace him with another named George :) - causing congress to have to come up with the idea of a president of the republic as part of writing the new constitution


It seems as if human nature though is to want a dictator, or perhaps we have just been brainwashed by politicians to believe this. Anyway it seems that most countries move toward dictatorship/totalitarianism.