I may soon join my 'challenged' friends with those anti-Obama tirades

[Thai Kimchi]

Obviously the wingers hate Obama because he's a Dem, he's black, and he doesn't fellate Rupert Murdoch.

Now the latest word on health care reform is Obama will buckle to corporate/GOP demands and not include a 'Public Option'.

If that's the case, and pirates like 'lady's employer are allowed to continue pillaging the general public, why did Obama even begin the effort? He himself has said the public option is a NECESSARY ingredient if we're to keep 'lady's employer even halfway honest.

At this rate, Chief Ineedacostoflivingincrease's prognostications about Pawlenty could be spot on.

If Obama doesn't realize he's cutting his own political throat by ignoring the very people who voted him in, he's not nearly as sharp as he appears to be.

In the end, America will get what she deserves, as always. If we end up with another Goposaur nutcase in the WH, we fully deserve the consequences - consequences similar to the pain and destruction we're dealing with now after 8 GWB disaster years.

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?

[GetAClue]

Obviously the wingers hate Obama because he's a Dem, he's black, and he doesn't fellate Rupert Murdoch.

Now the latest word on health care reform is Obama will buckle to corporate/GOP demands and not include a 'Public Option'.

If that's the case, and pirates like 'lady's employer are allowed to continue pillaging the general public, why did Obama even begin the effort? He himself has said the public option is a NECESSARY ingredient if we're to keep 'lady's employer even halfway honest.

At this rate, Chief Ineedacostoflivingincrease's prognostications about Pawlenty could be spot on.

If Obama doesn't realize he's cutting his own political throat by ignoring the very people who voted him in, he's not nearly as sharp as he appears to be.

In the end, America will get what she deserves, as always. If we end up with another Goposaur nutcase in the WH, we fully deserve the consequences - consequences similar to the pain and destruction we're dealing with now after 8 GWB disaster years.

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?
I tend to look at it as people are finally beginning to wake up and see that voting for this ambiguous "hope and change" mantra, which was nothing more than a campaign slogan, was a futile waste of a vote. I will give Obama credit, he knows how to campaign.


But the bloom is off of the rose and the country is beginning to discover that there is more to leading than traveling the country and repeating catchy campaign slogans. And apparently, Obama has not learned that skill yet.

[deadnun]

Our government runs for corporations, not the people.

Our tax dollars are to prop up capitalism when it fails or steals.

The very people who are anti-socialist/anti-choice
are propping up a system that will sell them out as soon
as it can, when it can make more profit elsewhere,
or in the case the health insurance, it wil bankrupt them or let them die.

We don't solve problems ....not for taxpayers anyway.

[MintJulep]

that sounds peachy, dead nun :D

[kres24GT]

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?


Fascist like yourself. Saying to hell with the Constitution, as long as we increase government and decrease freedom.

[Bill Cosby]

Our government runs for corporations, not the people.

Our tax dollars are to prop up capitalism when it fails or steals.

The very people who are anti-socialist/anti-choice
are propping up a system that will sell them out as soon
as it can, when it can make more profit elsewhere,
or in the case the health insurance, it wil bankrupt them or let them die.

We don't solve problems ....not for taxpayers anyway.

Some great points....

A new definition for a new "liberal", a conservative that just lost his families healthcare... :thumbsup:

[kres24GT]

Our government runs for corporations, not the people.

Our tax dollars are to prop up capitalism when it fails or steals.

The very people who are anti-socialist/anti-choice
are propping up a system that will sell them out as soon
as it can, when it can make more profit elsewhere,
or in the case the health insurance, it wil bankrupt them or let them die.

We don't solve problems ....not for taxpayers anyway.


Exactly why we need less government, not more.

[Bill Cosby]

Fascist like yourself. Saying to hell with the Constitution, as long as we increase government and decrease freedom.

See I think this is were you get in trouble......... He never said that........

Or even implied this in any way that I have seen?? I could be wrong... So show me I am....:thumbsup:

If you have soem issues w/ his opinion or comments why not address those rather than paint a picture that is not there........ :dunno:

[kres24GT]

See I think this is were you get in trouble......... He never said that........

Or even implied this in any way that I have seen?? I could be wrong... So show me I am....:thumbsup:

If you have soem issues w/ his opinion or comments why not address those rather than paint a picture that is not there........ :dunno:


He wants to force everyone to his way of thinking, and he wants to use the police power of government to do so, that is pretty clear form the post. Those who disagree with him or stop form getting his way via protest or whatever, he is against that. That is fascism.

[Bill Cosby]

He wants to force everyone to his way of thinking, and he wants to use the police power of government to do so, that is pretty clear form the post. Those who disagree with him or stop form getting his way via protest or whatever, he is against that. That is fascism.

He wants??? He is against?? Pls he is stating his opinion just like you & me... That is ok here...:thumbsup:

[Thai Kimchi]

Fascist like yourself. Saying to hell with the Constitution, as long as we increase government and decrease freedom.

kres - you're a one-trick pony.


The World According to kres:

Gub'mint - bad
Corporations - bad
Solutions - none

kres, if you'd like to set an example for 'fascists' like me, start a commune of like-minded nihilists and run your survival-of-the-fittest paradise for all to see. I think we can all judge the results - assuming no Faux News sources are involved.

I'd love to see this Libertarians-on-steroids society on display, as would many others. Have you thought of this approach?

[kres24GT]

kres - you're a one-trick pony.


The World According to kres:

Gub'mint - bad
Corporations - bad
Solutions - none

kres, if you'd like to set an example for 'fascists' like me, start a commune of like-minded nihilists and run your survival-of-the-fittest paradise for all to see. I think we can all judge the results - assuming no Faux News sources are involved.

I'd love to see this Libertarians-on-steroids society on display, as would many others. Have you thought of this approach?


The solution is a nation of free, educated people learning from their mistakes because their mistakes have consequences. A nation that doesn't believe the answer to every problem is more government.

[Dale escondido]

Some great points....

A new definition for a new "liberal", a conservative that just lost his families healthcare... :thumbsup:

Very accurate and very funny.
No one ever wants the resposibillity that come with integrity.
Its hard work "being" what you represent.
We here even with all the fights about nothing have more ethics and principals than those who lead.
And I am not leaving any party out of that statement.

[Bill Cosby]

Well I would not expect you to leave any party as a result of somethign I said...

But I do think it makes a point...

[deadnun]

Exactly why we need less government, not more.


The whole reason healthcare has government intervention now,
is because the insurance companies practice discrimination.

I can't for the life of me understand why you people
do not have enough BUSINESS sense to see a sham
deal from its conception.

I guess you have to have a major illness and get denied coverage
before you see the light.

Not even that, you can be denied coverage because you took
a legally prescribed med, FDA approved, that insurance co's now
decide they do not want people who may have certain side effects
WHILE physicians are still prescribing it and millions are taking it.

That is just horrible business and you all endorse that as QUALITY.

You would not know quality if it bit you in the ass.

How is being 37th in the world for health care ranking,
a system worth fighting for? Makes no sense.

You hang onto this and it will burn your ass for profit.
Unless you're a huge shareholder in the plan you pay into
you are losing every month and you are at risk.

I guess that is an answer--we can all buy insurance stocks
and make money off each other dying from bad care.

[Thai Kimchi]

The solution is a nation of free, educated people learning from their mistakes because their mistakes have consequences. A nation that doesn't believe the answer to every problem is more government.

In your first sentence, you provide your 'solution' with a definition of a rational society - one that has yet to be created here on Earth. That's not a 'solution', that's a dream. Hopefully the Goposaurs will mimic Obama's 'Change' mantra with a 'Dream' mantra. That might work.

And your second sentence makes little sense. Are you referring to the US? If so, who is calling for the government to solve every proplem? WTF?

[kres24GT]

The whole reason healthcare has government intervention now,
is because the insurance companies practice discrimination.

I can't for the life of me understand why you people
do not have enough BUSINESS sense to see a sham
deal from its conception.

I guess you have to have a major illness and get denied coverage
before you see the light.

Not even that, you can be denied coverage because you took
a legally prescribed med, FDA approved, that insurance co's now
decide they do not want people who may have certain side effects
WHILE physicians are still prescribing it and millions are taking it.

That is just horrible business and you all endorse that as QUALITY.

You would not know quality if it bit you in the ass.

How is being 37th in the world for health care ranking,
a system worth fighting for? Makes no sense.

You hang onto this and it will burn your ass for profit.
Unless you're a huge shareholder in the plan you pay into
you are losing every month and you are at risk.

I guess that is an answer--we can all buy insurance stocks
and make money off each other dying from bad care.


The reason we are where we are now is Big Government, they are in bed with the insurance companies. All regulation has done is create the broken non competitive system we have now. More government will of course onyl make things worse.

[kres24GT]

In your first sentence, you provide your 'solution' with a definition of a rational society - one that has yet to be created here on Earth. That's not a 'solution', that's a dream. Hopefully the Goposaurs will mimic Obama's 'Change' mantra with a 'Dream' mantra. That might work.

And your second sentence makes little sense. Are you referring to the US? If so, who is calling for the government to solve every proplem? WTF?


Your solution to everything is a Big Government one. Not working together as free people, not community action, Big Government and fascism, that is your answer. What have you done to help fix health care in this country other than clamor for more government?

[Bill Cosby]

The reason we are where we are now is Big Government, they are in bed with the insurance companies. All regulation has done is create the broken non competitive system we have now. More government will of course onyl make things worse.

That is just your opinion Kres.........

You wish to apply it to healtcare but not the mail & postal dilvery?? Fire, Police etc....

Are there doctors now working in prisons, military etc???? Seems since they don't have a draft every damn one had an option not to take the jobs...

funny huh......... :D

[bairdi]

He wants??? He is against?? Pls he is stating his opinion just like you & me... That is ok here...:thumbsup:
Don't you get it yet Bill? If someone forms an opinion based on information other than the conclusion that kres has reached using his "observation,common sense, logic, and reason", they are just plain wrong regardless of political affiliation or ideology. He is the only "free thinker" on the board and the rest of, with the exception of maybe you, are "big government homers" who do not realize that salvation lies only in a return to the 1800's regardless of the fact that the country has grown to over 300 million citizens and that the nation is faced with problems requiring solutions that demand government. The only good government is a dead government.

[Hog Trash]

Obviously the wingers hate Obama because he's a Dem,Most definately!

he's black,Some no doubt!

and he doesn't fellate Rupert Murdoch.Not so sure???

Now the latest word on health care reform is Obama will buckle to corporate/GOP demands and not include a 'Public Option'.

If that's the case, and pirates like 'lady's employer are allowed to continue pillaging the general public, why did Obama even begin the effort? He himself has said the public option is a NECESSARY ingredient if we're to keep 'lady's employer even halfway honest.

At this rate, Chief Ineedacostoflivingincrease's prognostications about Pawlenty could be spot on.Obama wants a health care plan regardless of whether it's good, bad or disastrous, he couldn't care less.

He believes, and rightfully so, that he needs it to be re-elected in 2012...That's one promise he must keep.

If Obama doesn't realize he's cutting his own political throat by ignoring the very people who voted him in, he's not nearly as sharp as he appears to be.Obama is sharp in two ways only;

[1] Master manipulater....The look, the smile, the talk, the walk, the smooth and the cool....Oh yea baby!

[2] Con artist extradinaire....Could sell snow to an eskimo....Better than even Slick Willy.....He got the grift down, dog!

In the end, America will get what she deserves, as always. If we end up with another Goposaur nutcase in the WH, we fully deserve the consequences - consequences similar to the pain and destruction we're dealing with now after 8 GWB disaster years.Typical liberal, back to Bush and the republicans....LOL!....Like I said, my friend, that was only half the problem and right now it's a non-issue.

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?Two things;

[1] DemoPublicans

[2] Gulliblle voters

[Thai Kimchi]

Your solution to everything is a Big Government one. Not working together as free people, not community action, Big Government and fascism, that is your answer. What have you done to help fix health care in this country other than clamor for more government?

Incorrect, kres. Simply stating my 'solution to everything is a Big Government' is simply not true. You seem to have a straw man factory nearby - you never run out.

Secondly, what have I done to help fix healthcare? I've been attempting to convince family members and a guy at work we need to drastically reform our pathetic health care rip-off system. And I always vote for someone who may address the issue in a serious manner.

What have you been doing, oh learned one? Or, are you thrilled with the current consumer rip-off scam? You work for UHC too?

[kres24GT]

Incorrect, kres. Simply stating my 'solution to everything is a Big Government' is simply not true. You seem to have a straw man factory nearby - you never run out.

Secondly, what have I done to help fix healthcare? I've been attempting to convince family members and a guy at work we need to drastically reform our pathetic health care rip-off system. And I always vote for someone who may address the issue in a serious manner.

What have you been doing, oh learned one? Or, are you thrilled with the current consumer rip-off scam? You work for UHC too?


LMAO, thanks for proving my point.

[Hog Trash]

Incorrect, kres. Simply stating my 'solution to everything is a Big Government' is simply not true. You seem to have a straw man factory nearby - you never run out.

Secondly, what have I done to help fix healthcare? I've been attempting to convince family members and a guy at work we need to drastically reform our pathetic health care rip-off system. And I always vote for someone who may address the issue in a serious manner.

What have you been doing, oh learned one? Or, are you thrilled with the current consumer rip-off scam? You work for UHC too?You want to reform healthcare???

Get the pharmasutical lobbiest away from the republicans and regulate companies to ensure they don't sell drugs for more in the US than they do in foreign markets.

And get the lawyers lobbiest away from the democrats and put a cap on the multi million dollar lawsuit settlements against the medical industry.

Insurance rates will adjust accordingly to demand, competition, cost and the new lower prices....Allow capitalism to work for you.

Capitalist market competition for insurance companies is the best cost regulator in the world providing government isn't stacking the deck against them or for them.

Yes, there are those who can't afford medical coverage and always will be but there will also always be a safety net for those people and they do work.

Anything is preferrable to socializing medical care and destroying the best healthcare system in the world...We are Americans not government dependents...Lets keep it that way.

[Thai Kimchi]

kres, you remind me of this guy I fired a few years back. He was always using his keen intellect to nit-pick every company procedure/policy you could dream of. But when asked what would he do to address these issues, we're talking crickets chirping. It looked like he'd just been hynotized or lobotomized. Nothing.

Anyone coming to a 'debate' with zero positive solutions to the issue being debated, other than irrelevent descriptions of utopia, has little to 'debate'.

[deadnun]

The reason we are where we are now is Big Government, they are in bed with the insurance companies. All regulation has done is create the broken non competitive system we have now. More government will of course onyl make things worse.

You need to explain that because it makes no sense.

[Thai Kimchi]

Capitalist market competition for insurance companies is the best cost regulator in the world - Hog

That's so brazenly stupid I can only guess you're doing some Onion schtick.

Apparently, health insurance cost inflation running 3 times everything else sure proves those rates are 'regulated' alright.....lol......regulated to keep Hemsley and his family flush with cash for generations to come! You wingers are SO gullible.....just amazing.

USA!

USA!

USA!

[kres24GT]

You need to explain that because it makes no sense.


Really cannot dumb it down anymore than that, sorry. Regulation limits competition, regulation is big business stacking the laws to benefit the biggest companies and screw the little guy.

[Dale escondido]

Really cannot dumb it down anymore than that, sorry. Regulation limits competition, regulation is big business stacking the laws to benefit the biggest companies and screw the little guy.

Last ten years has seen the formation of distributorships to keep small business from paying same costs as big business.
Although big business is still unable to compete even with all the advantages their lobbying impose on us little guys.:taunt:

[Hog Trash]

Capitalist market competition for insurance companies is the best cost regulator in the world - Hog

That's so brazenly stupid I can only guess you're doing some Onion schtick.

Apparently, health insurance cost inflation running 3 times everything else sure proves those rates are 'regulated' alright.....lol......regulated to keep Hemsley and his family flush with cash for generations to come! You wingers are SO gullible.....just amazing.

USA!

USA!

USA!Yes, capitalism is the best price rugulator providing you take everything else I said into account.

You have been brainwashed by the left to believe that capitalism is bad and socialism is good.

You my friend are the gullible one here....Rest assured, there are many like you in this day and age. :thumbsup:

[Bill Cosby]

Capitalist market competition for insurance companies is the best cost regulator in the world - Hog

That's so brazenly stupid I can only guess you're doing some Onion schtick.

Apparently, health insurance cost inflation running 3 times everything else sure proves those rates are 'regulated' alright.....lol......regulated to keep Hemsley and his family flush with cash for generations to come! You wingers are SO gullible.....just amazing.

USA!

USA!

USA!

I wonder how much a good triple by pass goes for in France???

Market forces her in the usa??? We can check craigslist & see if any dr wants to barter for one......

Check the newspaper & see if any are on sale this week..... ???

I think @ sears or kmart if you buy a new frig you can get coupons for breast exams & pap smears for a year...

[CosmicRocker]

so where are we without Single Pay, or a public option?
co-opts? - that really doesn't change the dynamics.

Big Gov't intrusion thru the Interstate Commerce Clause, keeping insurance companies rates regulated state by state instead of a national standard,
and national competition has not allowed the free market to wring out inefficiencies.

Even if that happened, the insurance companies would STILL be one of the most profitable markets. They would still deny, coverage , raise premiums,etc.

We really need some kind of universal access.

We REALLY need single pay, but we're not gonna get it.

we're REALLY screwed.

Damn if I can figue out this mess, there is a huge thread at RV under "politics" called " Single Pay Dammit"
Better minds than myself make some very good points.

Other than that, this is just beyond my grasp to figure out all the angles.

[Dale escondido]

Yes, capitalism is the best price rugulator providing you take everything else I said into account.

You have been brainwashed by the left to believe that capitalism is bad and socialism is good.

You my friend are the gullible one here....Rest assured, there are many like you in this day and age. :thumbsup:

Unregulated capitalism can be a problem, but when the regulators are so inticed by those they are to regulate people start mistrusting both.
Or if we are spoon fed enough we find one side or the other and put white hats on them.

[Thai Kimchi]

Yes, capitalism is the best price rugulator providing you take everything else I said into account.

You have been brainwashed by the left to believe that capitalism is bad and socialism is good.

You my friend are the gullible one here....Rest assured, there are many like you in this day and age. :thumbsup:

If 'capitalism is the best price regulator', why are we paying twice as much for healthcare as all the other industrialized Western nations, and ranked THIRTY-SEVENTH by The World Health Organization?

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even bother to think about what you post?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


....don't tell me, I guessed already - W.H.O. is a commie/Muslim front group out to derail Rupert Murdoch....am I close?

[Hog Trash]

Unregulated capitalism can be a problem, but when the regulators are so inticed by those they are to regulate people start mistrusting both.
Or if we are spoon fed enough we find one side or the other and put white hats on them.I never said anything about unregulated capitalism.

In fact if you read you will find that I specifically mentioned that some regulations are required.

In fact one of the most important regulations is the prohibition of monopolies, which destroys any capitalist free-market enterprise quicker than Karl Marx!

In fact that's what socialism does is provide government with a monopoly over every business venture and opportunity in existance, which of course destroys capitalism.

[Bill Cosby]

Unregulated capitalism can be a problem, but when the regulators are so inticed by those they are to regulate people start mistrusting both.
Or if we are spoon fed enough we find one side or the other and put white hats on them.

Yep.................... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[kres24GT]

Regulation is Big Business's best friend, just ask the insurance companies, they love regulation and are enjoying little competition and record profits because of it.

[deadnun]

Really cannot dumb it down anymore than that, sorry. Regulation limits competition, regulation is big business stacking the laws to benefit the biggest companies and screw the little guy.

Dumb it down? Insults do not equal knowledge.
You have to work harder to be seen as credible.


Regulation like what?

That each plan must have so much money
in the savings to cover each member?

That they have quality checks?

Regulations in health care are needed to protect you from people
who not give a shit about how you treated or who have such poor skill
they belong out of the profession.

As far as costs, the little guy is screwed because small business
has less options to get plans at better costs.

That's why we have 47 million people without insurance,
most are employed. Those who aren't have few options
to get coverage, EVEN IF THEY CAN PAY.

Again you make no sense. And you are not helping yourself.

You have no grounds in this argument.
And I'm not dumb, so forget that happy horseshit right now.

And I do not think this is wholly an intelligence argument,
I think it is a matter of heart and whether people
can treat each other right.

So far I see you people being bad in business and bad in heart.
I will say, I wish you well in this crappy system you love so much.
Darwin works in mysterious ways.

[Surfrider]

......If Obama doesn't realize he's cutting his own political throat by ignoring the very people who voted him in, he's not nearly as sharp as he appears to be........

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?

Here are some answers to questions Democrats should be thinking about.
Fellow Dems, we all feel a little sluggish these days, and we need a little wake-up call. This is it:

Republicans lost the election.

Republican Party membership is dropping like a rock.

Republican fund raising has is almost non-existent.

President Barack Obama has been in office for only 7 months.

President Obama's agenda is delayed by the Republican economic fiasco.

With their last breath, Republicans are taking cheap shots at the president.

What's to worry about? Take a shower. Enjoy a relaxing nap. Then write a letter to your Senator in support of ObamaCare, health care for all. Get back on the Internet, and tell Republicans their party is dead. Research indicates that irritates them more than anything else Democrats say.

http://www.eihr.com/bluepalace/Photos/Relaxation.jpg


The Republican Party is dead!

[Bill Cosby]

Dumb it down? Insults do not equal knowledge.
You have to work harder to be seen as credible.


Regulation like what?

That each plan must have so much money
in the savings to cover each member?

That they have quality checks?

Regulations in health care are needed to protect you from people
who not give a shit about how you treated or who have such poor skill
they belong out of the profession.

As far as costs, the little guy is screwed because small business
has less options to get plans at better costs.

That's why we have 47 million people without insurance,
most are employed. Those who aren't have few options
to get coverage, EVEN IF THEY CAN PAY.

Again you make no sense. And you are not helping yourself.

You have no grounds in this argument.
And I'm not dumb, so forget that happy horseshit right now.

And I do not think this is wholly an intelligence argument,
I think it is a matter of heart and whether people
can treat each other right.

So far I see you people being bad in business and bad in heart.
I will say, I wish you well in this crappy system you love so much.
Darwin works in mysterious ways.

Excellent points.....

Regulations are bad.... gUvment is bad...

I want to eat meat that has not been inspected.......

I wanna eat @ restaurants that don't get health inspections...

Fly in planes that are not governed by big government......

he lives in Georgia I wonder if he got free uninspected peanut butter??? YUMMY http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/090210/nn_04costello_pb_090210.300w.jpg

big guVment stay outta my peanut butter- got no business in my business... OY!!!!!!

[Thai Kimchi]

What's to worry about? Take a shower. Enjoy a relaxing nap.

Good advice. I'd write my senators but they're both already on board.

I'm definitely considering the first three items on your agenda.

[Hog Trash]

Regulation is Big Business's best friend, just ask the insurance companies, they love regulation and are enjoying little competition and record profits because of it.Any government regulation should take into consideration both the industry and the consumer since they are dependent on each other...The government represents all of us including businesses.

Corporations should be able to send representatives to Washington to present their side when regulations are being considered providing absolutely no money, favors or future promises are included in the negotiations.

Fair and honest representation is necessary to protect all parties concerned...Lobbiest bribery has corrupted government...For this reason our representatives must be held accountable when corruption is discovered.

[doctordog]

If 'capitalism is the best price regulator', why are we paying twice as much for healthcare as all the other industrialized Western nations, and ranked THIRTY-SEVENTH by The World Health Organization?

What the hell are you talking about? Do you even bother to think about what you post?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


....don't tell me, I guessed already - W.H.O. is a commie/Muslim front group out to derail Rupert Murdoch....am I close?

2 Reasons, they are heavily goverened, more regulations, less freedoms.
Most of these countries you want to me so much like are 1/3 the size of the United States.

[kres24GT]

Dumb it down? Insults do not equal knowledge.
You have to work harder to be seen as credible.


Regulation like what?

That each plan must have so much money
in the savings to cover each member?

That they have quality checks?

Regulations in health care are needed to protect you from people
who not give a shit about how you treated or who have such poor skill
they belong out of the profession.

As far as costs, the little guy is screwed because small business
has less options to get plans at better costs.

That's why we have 47 million people without insurance,
most are employed. Those who aren't have few options
to get coverage, EVEN IF THEY CAN PAY.

Again you make no sense. And you are not helping yourself.

You have no grounds in this argument.
And I'm not dumb, so forget that happy horseshit right now.

And I do not think this is wholly an intelligence argument,
I think it is a matter of heart and whether people
can treat each other right.

So far I see you people being bad in business and bad in heart.
I will say, I wish you well in this crappy system you love so much.
Darwin works in mysterious ways.


LMAO, that is all you can do at a post this hilariously stupid.

[deadnun]

Excellent points.....

Regulations are bad.... gUvment is bad...

I want to eat meat that has not been inspected.......

I wanna eat @ restaurants that don't get health inspections...

Fly in planes that are not governed by big government......

he lives in Georgia I wonder if he got free uninspected peanut butter??? YUMMY http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Video/090210/nn_04costello_pb_090210.300w.jpg

big guVment stay outta my peanut butter- got no business in my business... OY!!!!!!

Yeah, they want surgeons to let instruments and sponges
in them after surgery, then not be able to sue :lmao2:

[Thai Kimchi]

2 Reasons, they are heavily goverened, more regulations, less freedoms.
Most of these countries you want to me so much like are 1/3 the size of the United States.

Oh, I get it now. The US is ranked 37th because all this freedom we bathe in daily is actually killing us.

All this freedom is killing our babies too.......maybe it's time for some good ole fashion Stalinism, or maybe check out what Mao had to say?

Oct. 15, 2008 -- The U.S. ranks 29th worldwide in infant mortality, tying Slovakia and Poland but lagging behind Cuba, the CDC reports.

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081015/infant-mortality-us-ranks-29th

USA!

USA!

USA!

WE'RE NUMBER 37!!!

[Surfrider]

Any government regulation should take into consideration both the industry and the consumer since they are dependent on each other...The government represents all of us including businesses.

Corporations should be able to send representatives to Washington to present their side when regulations are being considered providing absolutely no money, favors or future promises are included in the negotiations.

Fair and honest representation is necessary to protect all parties concerned...Lobbiest bribery has corrupted government...For this reason our representatives must be held accountable when corruption is discovered.

My God, are you still alive? I thought you died when the Republican Party did.

http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/wp-content//2009/03/evil-dead-2.jpg

[deadnun]

LMAO, that is all you can do at a post this hilariously stupid.

Right -- because you cannot counter it with bumpersticker logic.

And simple intimidation just not does work on everyone.

You are lazy.

[doctordog]

Oh, I get it now. The US is ranked 37th because all this freedom we bathe in daily is actually killing us.

All this freedom is killing our babies too.......maybe it's time for some good ole fashion Stalinism, or maybe check out what Mao had to say?

Oct. 15, 2008 -- The U.S. ranks 29th worldwide in infant mortality, tying Slovakia and Poland but lagging behind Cuba, the CDC reports.

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/baby/news/20081015/infant-mortality-us-ranks-29th

USA!

USA!

USA!

WE'RE NUMBER 37!!!

I would rather stay at #37 than turn into a heavily regulated European country.

[MintJulep]

Yeah, they want surgeons to let instruments and sponges
in them after surgery, then not be able to sue :lmao2:What should be done about the frivolous lawsuits that contribute to such high costs?

[MintJulep]

I would rather stay at #37 than turn into a heavily regulated European country.Don't fall for the bogus "37th" canard. Look at how it was calculated.


"Let's first dispose of that 37th place ranking, since it's become a staple of the indictment of U.S. health care at least since Michael Moore (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Michael%20Moore&searchTerm=Michael%20Moore) exploited it in his movie "Sicko (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Sicko&searchTerm=Sicko)." To appreciate how strange the ranking is, you really have to ask yourself just one question: Would I prefer to be treated for a serious ailment or injury in Oman (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Oman&searchTerm=Oman), Portugal (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Portugal&searchTerm=Portugal), Greece (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Greece&searchTerm=Greece), Colombia (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Colombia&searchTerm=Colombia), Cyprus (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Cyprus&searchTerm=Cyprus), Saudi Arabia (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Saudi%20Arabia&searchTerm=Saudi%20Arabia), United Arab Emirates (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=United%20Arab%20Emirates&searchTerm=United%20Arab%20Emirates), Morocco (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Morocco&searchTerm=Morocco), Chile (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Chile&searchTerm=Chile), Dominica (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Dominica&searchTerm=Dominica) and Costa Rica (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Costa%20Rica&searchTerm=Costa%20Rica) as opposed to the United States?

If you answered no, along with most other sane people, you have begun to see the problem: All of those nations, some of them quite poor, appear above the U.S. in the oft-cited WHO ranking. Meaning the ranking must be flawed.

Glen Whitman, an economics professor at California (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=California&searchTerm=California) State University, analyzed the WHO's screwy rankings in a paper published last year by the International Policy Press. As he explains, WHO based its list on five factors, three of which involve political value judgments.

For example, one of the criteria is "financial fairness," related to the percentage of household income spent on health. The use of this measurement, Whitman notes, "necessarily makes countries that rely on market incentives look inferior."

Indeed, the rankings "are designed in a manner that favors greater government involvement" in health care (Whitman's emphasis).
It gets worse. The rankings are also adjusted "to reflect a country's performance relative to how well it theoretically could have performed."

It's as if the Los Angeles (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Los%20Angeles&searchTerm=Los%20Angeles) Lakers won the NBA title in five games but ended up being ranked No. 2 because, in the opinion of experts, they should have swept the title in four given their talent and resources.

A more relevant comparison, Whitman argues, would be to "ask which health systems do the best job of dealing with whatever health conditions arise" — by comparing, say, five-year mortality rates for specific ailments.

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=9671

[doctordog]

Don't fall for the bogus "37th" canard. Look at how it was calculated.


"Let's first dispose of that 37th place ranking, since it's become a staple of the indictment of U.S. health care at least since Michael Moore (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Michael%20Moore&searchTerm=Michael%20Moore) exploited it in his movie "Sicko (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Sicko&searchTerm=Sicko)." To appreciate how strange the ranking is, you really have to ask yourself just one question: Would I prefer to be treated for a serious ailment or injury in Oman (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Oman&searchTerm=Oman), Portugal (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Portugal&searchTerm=Portugal), Greece (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Greece&searchTerm=Greece), Colombia (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Colombia&searchTerm=Colombia), Cyprus (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Cyprus&searchTerm=Cyprus), Saudi Arabia (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Saudi%20Arabia&searchTerm=Saudi%20Arabia), United Arab Emirates (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=United%20Arab%20Emirates&searchTerm=United%20Arab%20Emirates), Morocco (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Morocco&searchTerm=Morocco), Chile (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Chile&searchTerm=Chile), Dominica (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Dominica&searchTerm=Dominica) and Costa Rica (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Costa%20Rica&searchTerm=Costa%20Rica) as opposed to the United States?

If you answered no, along with most other sane people, you have begun to see the problem: All of those nations, some of them quite poor, appear above the U.S. in the oft-cited WHO ranking. Meaning the ranking must be flawed.

Glen Whitman, an economics professor at California (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=California&searchTerm=California) State University, analyzed the WHO's screwy rankings in a paper published last year by the International Policy Press. As he explains, WHO based its list on five factors, three of which involve political value judgments.

For example, one of the criteria is "financial fairness," related to the percentage of household income spent on health. The use of this measurement, Whitman notes, "necessarily makes countries that rely on market incentives look inferior."

Indeed, the rankings "are designed in a manner that favors greater government involvement" in health care (Whitman's emphasis).
It gets worse. The rankings are also adjusted "to reflect a country's performance relative to how well it theoretically could have performed."

It's as if the Los Angeles (http://www.denverpost.com/topics?topic=Los%20Angeles&searchTerm=Los%20Angeles) Lakers won the NBA title in five games but ended up being ranked No. 2 because, in the opinion of experts, they should have swept the title in four given their talent and resources.

A more relevant comparison, Whitman argues, would be to "ask which health systems do the best job of dealing with whatever health conditions arise" — by comparing, say, five-year mortality rates for specific ailments.

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showthread.php?t=9671

that was my point, there isn't a country on that list that I would rather be a part of.:thumbsup:

[deadnun]

We have great EMERGENCY CARE.

We fall very, very, very short on preventative and wellness care.

Emergency care is much more expensive.

You uneducated people with your talking points and right-wing google items
are an embarrassment.

How you can defend a system that wastes 30% overhead is a travesty.

[deadnun]

What should be done about the frivolous lawsuits that contribute to such high costs?

Stop letting non-medical people define what is "frivolous".

[deadnun]

I would rather stay at #37 than turn into a heavily regulated European country.

LOL yeah because they ban things that cause people to get sick.

What a catastrophe!

[MintJulep]

Stop letting non-medical people define what is "frivolous".I'm confused. Are you asserting frivolous medical lawsuits do not exist?

[doctordog]

LOL yeah because they ban things that cause people to get sick.

What a catastrophe!

No, that is not it, I am not a domestic pet or experiment, I don't want a goverment that tells me when shit, shower, and shave.

[MintJulep]

We have great EMERGENCY CARE.

We fall very, very, very short on preventative and wellness care.

Emergency care is much more expensive.

You uneducated people with your talking points and right-wing google items
are an embarrassment.

How you can defend a system that wastes 30% overhead is a travesty.So, if you needed a transplant or experimental cancer treatment do you actually think you'd get better care in Chile or Columbia? After all, they rank higher on the "list", no?

At least here, we get the option to have emergency MRIs or testing. If you go to the ER, you can have one on the spot. I know because I did just that. About 7 yrs ago, I had, what turned out to be, a vestibular problem and unexplained dizziness. I was scheduled for an MRI but it was a 2 week wait and I couldn't take feeling that way 24/7, so I went to the ER and had an MRI immediately. Before that, I was convinced I had a brain tumor. :D

[Surfrider]

Don't fall for the bogus "37th" canard. Look at how it was calculated.

"Let's first dispose of that 37th place ranking, since it's become a staple of the indictment of U.S. health care at least since Michael Moore exploited it in his movie Sicko.

http://www.topnews.in/health/files/who2.JPG

You bet that 37th place ranking is a staple of the indictment of U. S. Health care. In fact that number 37 is one of the reasons health care is on the Congressional chopping block!

This is why I don't waste my time with conservatives, if there is a FACT they don't like they just throw it away. Your messiah Ronald Reagan said, ""Facts are stupid things." -at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things." Either way you look at it, you get the Republican perspective.

So, who is this group of fanatics at the World Health Organization that rated American health care #37? According to the United Nations, WHO is the directing and coordinating authority for health within the United Nations system. It is responsible for providing leadership on global health matters, shaping the health research agenda, setting norms and standards, articulating evidence-based policy options, providing technical support to countries and monitoring and assessing health trends. In the 21st century, health is a shared responsibility, involving equitable access to essential care and collective defence against transnational threats.

So, you "dismiss" the World Health Organization, while you worship Reagan, your incompetent messiah. I am glad you mentioned Michael Moore's Sicko, a most informative film effort embraced by Democrats and Republicans concerned about health care.

http://www.mrrl.org/blogs/wordpress/libblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/sicko.jpg

[Thai Kimchi]

This is why I don't waste my time with conservatives, if there is a FACT they don't like they just throw it away.

That's almost exactly how I view our reptilian friends. I would delete one phrase and put it this way:

This is why I don't waste my time with conservatives, if there is a FACT they just throw it away.

Only facts are exempt from their long list of prejudices, it's like they don't even exist.

[GetAClue]

We have great EMERGENCY CARE.
Think about what you just said. Why would we waste time treating healthy people?


We fall very, very, very short on preventative and wellness care.

Emergency care is much more expensive.
What does that have to do with healthcare? What you are advocating is that people should take better care of themselves. You’re right, they should. However, they don’t. That is and individual right and RESPONSIBILITY. If I choose to live an unhealthy lifestyle, that is my right. If I suffer medically for this decision, that is MY responsibility, not that of the government.


You uneducated people with your talking points and right-wing google items
are an embarrassment.
What is embarrassing is you throwing stones at the article while not disputing the facts that were presented.

How you can defend a system that wastes 30% overhead is a travesty.
How can you propose a government that can’t deliver the mail or run a “Cash for Clunkers” program taking over 1/6 of our economy?

[GetAClue]

That's almost exactly how I view our reptilian friends. I would delete one phrase and put it this way:

This is why I don't waste my time with conservatives, if there is a FACT they just throw it away.

Only facts are exempt from their long list of prejudices, it's like they don't even exist.
Yet none of you can refute the article that LL posted. All you want to do is sit back and throw insults. That is a typical liberal tactic.

By the way, excellent post LL.

[Thai Kimchi]

Yet none of you can refute the article that LL posted. All you want to do is sit back and throw insults. That is a typical liberal tactic.

By the way, excellent post LL.

Pahleeze, GaC, be serious. Why would would anyone wish to spend all day refuting BS from this wingnut Vincent Carroll? Why not just post something straight from WND or Drudge and get it over with?

Besides, 'lady' thinks the St Pete Times is a leftwing rag - why would anything she references be worth two schits?

Check out what ole Vinny's been obsessing on - looks like he's doing Oxy with Rush...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/staff/vincent-carroll/

[GetAClue]

Pahleeze, GaC, be serious. Why would would anyone wish to spend all day refuting BS from this wingnut Vincent Carroll? Why not just post something straight from WND or Drudge and get it over with?

Besides, 'lady' thinks the St Pete Times is a leftwing rag - why would anything she references be worth two schits?

Check out what ole Vinny's been obsessing on - looks like he's doing Oxy with Rush...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/staff/vincent-carroll/
Yet still, you cannot counter the points presented in the article. I don't care if Michael Steele posted it himself. There are legitimate points in the article you refuse to address. If you can refute them, then do so. Otherwise it is simple partisan bickering.

I get a little tired of liberals consistently trashing this country for their own political gain. YOU keep bringing up that the US ranks 37th in the world in healthcare, but when someone brings up valid points to refute your claim, you ignore it. Why? Because it erodes the basic premise of your argument.

The fact is that this country has the finest healthcare system in the world. Just because some in this country choose to live unhealthy lifestyles is not an indictment of the medical system in place to take care of them when it catches up with them. If you really want to have an honest discussion, answer the question posed in LL’s article. Name one of those countries that you would rather be treated in other than the United States. After all, the purpose of the medical profession is to heal you when you become sick or injured. Keeping one self healthy is an individual responsibility, not that of the government.

[Thai Kimchi]

Yet still, you cannot counter the points presented in the article. I don't care if Michael Steele posted it himself. There are legitimate points in the article you refuse to address. If you can refute them, then do so. Otherwise it is simple partisan bickering.

I get a little tired of liberals consistently trashing this country for their own political gain. YOU keep bringing up that the US ranks 37th in the world in healthcare, but when someone brings up valid points to refute your claim, you ignore it. Why? Because it erodes the basic premise of your argument.

The fact is that this country has the finest healthcare system in the world. Just because some in this country choose to live unhealthy lifestyles is not an indictment of the medical system in place to take care of them when it catches up with them. If you really want to have an honest discussion, answer the question posed in LL’s article. Name one of those countries that you would rather be treated in other than the United States. After all, the purpose of the medical profession is to heal you when you become sick or injured. Keeping one self healthy is an individual responsibility, not that of the government.


What did I just say, Rupert boy? You can continue copy/pasting rw lies all day long - do you really EXPECT people to spend hours refuting these lies you spend 10 seconds copying?

Be serious.


Here's an example of what I'm refering to: "The fact is that this country has the finest healthcare system in the world."

.....that's patently false, an outright lie, but you will continue to actually believe that until you die (probably because you get fired and have no health care).

So.....why would anyone spend the day on some dopey bot like you? To hear the words of Roger Ailes, Karl Rove, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, the Coultergeist echo back at me?

I'll pass. The floor's yours bot, I'm all done with ya.

[ROdger Right]

Where in the world will you obtain better care then?

Is it better care because you dont pay directly in other coutnries you might be thinking of?

[Surfrider]

Leftists suck.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/5/10774330_d4c7dda558.jpg

[Binky]

Obviously the wingers hate Obama because he's a Dem, he's black, and he doesn't fellate Rupert Murdoch.

Now the latest word on health care reform is Obama will buckle to corporate/GOP demands and not include a 'Public Option'.

If that's the case, and pirates like 'lady's employer are allowed to continue pillaging the general public, why did Obama even begin the effort? He himself has said the public option is a NECESSARY ingredient if we're to keep 'lady's employer even halfway honest.

At this rate, Chief Ineedacostoflivingincrease's prognostications about Pawlenty could be spot on.

If Obama doesn't realize he's cutting his own political throat by ignoring the very people who voted him in, he's not nearly as sharp as he appears to be.

In the end, America will get what she deserves, as always. If we end up with another Goposaur nutcase in the WH, we fully deserve the consequences - consequences similar to the pain and destruction we're dealing with now after 8 GWB disaster years.

Geez, how did this fine nation get so trashed?.....WTF?


This country got "trashed," because we've been sitting in our safe and secure hidey holes, with our heads rammed up our asses so long that we're scared to come out and face the world we've created. We've done this, people! We've let it happen. We've been in a comatose state of being for how long now? huh? Maybe going on 15-20 years. But it only got worse over the last 10. With all the stinky poo that's been smellin' up the country, people can't take the stench any longer and are finally beginning to come out of stir.....

I don't know about the rest of you, but I doubt I'm going to live forever, and I sure as hell don't want to spend my last days on this earth, jammed packed into some shit hole slave camp or whatever is in our future. I want to breath fresh air. I want my grandkids to have a bright future filled with freedom rather than socialism, communism, totaliarism or any other kind of negative "ism." We've sat and let the powers that be rip this country apart and do whatever they damn well felt like doing with it. And all the while, we, the people, have been more worried about how fast we can spend our paychecks and load up on useless crap, than we have about our precious freedoms. So we float thru life with the greatest of ease, oblivious to what the hell is going on around us..

Let me put it this way. We deserve whatever we have coming for letting this happen. Our children and grand children DON'T. They shouldn't have to live in tyranny and raise THEIR children in it. They shouldn't have to pay dearly for the mistakes we've left behind. What the hell ever happened to the government fearing the people? We have nothing to fear. The government has we, the people, to fear.

SO WAKE THE FUCK UP!

[Dale escondido]

This country got "trashed," because we've been sitting in our safe and secure hidey holes, with our heads rammed up our asses so long that we're scared to come out and face the world we've created. We've done this, people! We've let it happen. We've been in a comatose state of being for how long now? huh? Maybe going on 15-20 years. But it only got worse over the last 10. With all the stinky poo that's been smellin' up the country, people can't take the stench any longer and are finally beginning to come out of stir.....

I don't know about the rest of you, but I doubt I'm going to live forever, and I sure as hell don't want to spend my last days on this earth, jammed packed into some shit hole slave camp or whatever is in our future. I want to breath fresh air. I want my grandkids to have a bright future filled with freedom rather than socialism, communism, totaliarism or any other kind of negative "ism." We've sat and let the powers that be rip this country apart and do whatever they damn well felt like doing with it. And all the while, we, the people, have been more worried about how fast we can spend our paychecks and load up on useless crap, than we have about our precious freedoms. So we float thru life with the greatest of ease, oblivious to what the hell is going on around us..

Let me put it this way. We deserve whatever we have coming for letting this happen. Our children and grand children DON'T. They shouldn't have to live in tyranny and raise THEIR children in it. They shouldn't have to pay dearly for the mistakes we've left behind. What the hell ever happened to the government fearing the people? We have nothing to fear. The government has we, the people, to fear.

SO WAKE THE FUCK UP!

It takes what it takes.
Goddam it, if hillary would have got in we could have our old status quo again.
But no, now we've got to get off the couch and do something:mad:

[Binky]

It takes what it takes.
Goddam it, if hillary would have got in we could have our old status quo again.
But no, now we've got to get off the couch and do something:mad:



:lmao2: Well, hon, we had all better roll off onto the floor pulling our butts up soon before we pay for it for a berry, berry, berry, berry, berry long time.

[deadnun]

I'm confused. Are you asserting frivolous medical lawsuits do not exist?

No I don't believe I did assert that at all.

I am saying that people not in healthcare like to say what is frivolous
because of money amounts, not on what patients endure and need.

If you are damaged and have to have a lifetime of care, the money amounts
awarded may not even cover what you need and what you had to pay out
to survive the waiting for the lawsuit to settle.

You likely will be dead before a settlement gets reached.

I have yet to see details what has actually been considered frivilous
from a medical point of view; it is a term that gets thrown around
politically without any real substance in the medical world.

[deadnun]

Think about what you just said. Why would we waste time treating healthy people?


What does that have to do with healthcare? What you are advocating is that people should take better care of themselves. You’re right, they should. However, they don’t. That is and individual right and RESPONSIBILITY. If I choose to live an unhealthy lifestyle, that is my right. If I suffer medically for this decision, that is MY responsibility, not that of the government.


What is embarrassing is you throwing stones at the article while not disputing the facts that were presented.


How can you propose a government that can’t deliver the mail or run a “Cash for Clunkers” program taking over 1/6 of our economy?


Wasting time treating healthy people? If you haven't noticed,
people decline with age in general, with education on nutrition & lifestyle,
prevention is cheaper than the billions of pills people shovel down their gullets,
causing more side effects, netting more pills.

I don't see physicians pushing prevention; I see physicians
writing scripts and being rewarded by the pharmaceutical industry.
I don't see physicans telling people to stay away from processed
foods. Physicians have a bad history of promoting things that
keep you sick -- tobacco ads from the 60'S ??? These days
they push pills driving up our costs. They should get rewarded
for being salesman of healthy lifestyles. But where is the fun in that?
That would be too cheap & easy.

The government can't deliver the mail? Really? Seems I get bills,
they get paid without issue quite regularly. The cash for clunkers
program was successful; people waiting for cars is not good? Because
the old inventory is gone, that is a bad thing? How odd.

Medicare runs just fine with the exception that physicians need more
money to run an all Medicare system -- easily fixed.

Insurance premiums will go up beyond what the middle class can pay.
You will be paying much more one way or another; the for-profit way
means 30% waste in overhead. Why would anyone want to support
30% waste. Who do you think is now picking up the tab for all the people
who haven't paid -- do you think that debt just evaporates into thin air?

You ARE paying for people who have bad lifestyles--the fantasy that you aren't
now and you won't pay much more for it later, is like how a child thinks
about debt.

LOL throwing stones at the article -- well I do have the right to examine the
credibility of articles and pick my battles, make choices on how to spend my time.
You really don't have power over that. Some of us have standards
higher than others when it comes to articles and sources.

Actually the system is so crappy, if it all fell to hell tomorrow,
I'd not cry. But we have to work with what we have now I suppose.

[Surfrider]

Now the latest word on health care reform is Obama will buckle to corporate/GOP demands and not include a 'Public Option'.

Wait until this thing plays out. Names and labels change for political reasons when a bill is in committee. Remember the Patriot Act which actually took rights away, but Bush sold it waving the American flag over it. Such are the realities of American politics.

Anything can happen in committee, but remember the whole Democratic Party has its ass on the line with ObamaCare, health care for all. Remember it is only 15 months until the next Congressional election. The seats of all the Congressmen, and a third of the Senators are up for grabs. Democrats have to deliver, and deliver big time. The heat is on.

http://www.nyu.edu/alumni.magazine/issue09/images/fea_heatison00.jpg

[Citizen]

You're an idiot.

[Bill Cosby]

Wait until this thing plays out. Names and labels change for political reasons when a bill is in committee. Remember the Patriot Act which actually took rights away, but Bush sold it waving the American flag over it. Such are the realities of American politics.

Anything can happen in committee, but remember the whole Democratic Party has its ass on the line with ObamaCare, health care for all. Remember it is only 15 months until the next Congressional election. The seats of all the Congressmen, and a third of the Senators are up for grabs. Democrats have to deliver, and deliver big time. The heat is on.
]

I hope you are right.. If he abandons or can't pull this off he is going to lose a lot of support on the left....

There is already talk about him selling out to the pharm companies... Did you read the Nader article I posted last week???

I want a system similar to France, not nessarily Canada but I am not going to turn up my nose @ anything that is going to help the 47 million w/out care...

[kres24GT]

I hope you are right.. If he abandons or can't pull this off he is going to lose a lot of support on the left....

There is already talk about him selling out to the pharm companies... Did you read the Nader article I posted last week???

I want a system similar to France, not nessarily Canada but I am not going to turn up my nose @ anything that is going to help the 47 million w/out care...


Link to 47 million being denied health care? You keep saying that with no proof, is that not against board rules?

[Surfrider]

I hope you are right.. If he abandons or can't pull this off he is going to lose a lot of support on the left....

As you know, I throw a lot of campaign bravado around DCJ, but the facts are simple. First, a brief story.

I was in Carbondale, Illinois a few years ago when Bill Clinton was President. I was talking with a lady I met in a nice restaurant/bar about her work. She represented Southern Illinois University's interests in Washington. She was excited because she had just returned to SIU with some great news.

http://sociology.siuc.edu/images/campus_lake_aerial.jpg


As we were both Dems, and had had a couple drinks I asked her confidentially, "How do you know that the arrangements you made this week will stick, and the government will deliver on them?" Her face flushed, and she went to the ladies room.

When she returned she said that politicians are like anyone else. You use your five senses and your experience to feel them out. Until push comes to shove, you give them the benefit of the doubt. If they don't deliver, you move on, and tell the story to every one you know in Washington.

I think President Barack Obama is going to be one of America's greatest presidents, but health care is his make or break issue. I hear some say, get it right, get it passed, and the resources of the Democratic party are at your disposal without question. I also hear, drop the ball on this and you are a "one termer." You talk about President Obama losing support, I'm talking about 'adios amigo' from his own party.

Right now we are at the "give them the benefit of the doubt" stage. President Obama is an Illinois guy, and all that that entails - there will be no compromise on the ObamaCare basics. Don't believe everything you read. That is why I again post for all loyal Democrats the big graphic:


http://www.nyu.edu/alumni.magazine/issue09/images/fea_heatison00.jpg

[GetAClue]

Wasting time treating healthy people? If you haven't noticed,
people decline with age in general, with education on nutrition & lifestyle,
prevention is cheaper than the billions of pills people shovel down their gullets,
causing more side effects, netting more pills.
There seems to be some evidence that your statement is flawed:

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials_columns/national_columnists/prevention_as_costly_as_cure

I don't see physicians pushing prevention; I see physicians
writing scripts and being rewarded by the pharmaceutical industry.
I don't see physicans telling people to stay away from processed
foods.
If you need a doctor to tell you to quit eating processed food, maybe you should let the government take care of you. Fact is, most people are aware of those things that they do that are not healthy but choose to do them anyway. My doctor has told me numerous times to change certain habits. The fact of the matter is, I CHOOSE to do those things. That’s the great thing about this country, we still have freedom to do those things if we want too.

Physicians have a bad history of promoting things that
keep you sick -- tobacco ads from the 60'S ???
Are you trying to tell me that the AMA paid for those adds? :lmao2:

These days they push pills driving up our costs. They should get rewarded for being salesman of healthy lifestyles. But where is the fun in that?
That would be too cheap & easy.
Could it be that people demand pills or other medications to cure ailments that could be prevented by living a healthier life style? Or the fact that most Americans just assume that there are medications to cure just about anything and demand that their doctors give them to them. I’m not saying SOME doctors don’t push pills, but by and large I believe that to be the exception, not the rule. However if you have evidence to the contrary, would you please provide a link?

The government can't deliver the mail? Really? Seems I get bills,
they get paid without issue quite regularly.
In case you are not aware, the USPS is losing money faster than the Treasury can print it.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/03/news/companies/usps_postal_service_privatize.fortune/index.htm?section=money_topstories

The cash for clunkers program was successful; people waiting for cars is not good? Because the old inventory is gone, that is a bad thing? How odd.
Talk to a car dealer about how well the program has worked. They are still waiting for their money. How hard is it to cut a check? I’m afraid we may find out if we ever go to a single payer system.

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1393764.html

Medicare runs just fine with the exception that physicians need more money to run an all Medicare system -- easily fixed.
DUH!!. Sure all they need is more money. THAT’S THE PROBLEM with healthcare. And what do you think the government will do to solve that if they get the chance. Raise taxes and limit services. THAT IS WHAT EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT.

Insurance premiums will go up beyond what the middle class can pay. You will be paying much more one way or another; the for-profit way
means 30% waste in overhead. Why would anyone want to support
30% waste. Who do you think is now picking up the tab for all the people
who haven't paid -- do you think that debt just evaporates into thin air?
Are you saying that the government runs things so efficiently that the 30% overhead you talk about will be made up? If you believe that, I have some beach front land in the desert I think you’d be interested in.

You ARE paying for people who have bad lifestyles--the fantasy that you aren't now and you won't pay much more for it later, is like how a child thinks about debt.
Nobody said were weren’t paying now. However, I have a choice now. I can choose between different insurance providers. And if the government got out of the way, I would have even more options.

LOL throwing stones at the article -- well I do have the right to examine the credibility of articles and pick my battles, make choices on how to spend my time. You really don't have power over that. Some of us have standards
higher than others when it comes to articles and sources.
No, that is not what I was saying. There were several posts on here dismissing the article out of hand simply because they did not like the source or the author. You have every right to examine the article and argue its points. Just don’t be surprised if others do not share your point of view.

Actually the system is so crappy, if it all fell to hell tomorrow,
I'd not cry. But we have to work with what we have now I suppose.
That is your opinion, but let me ask you; where else in the world would you rather go if you were suffering from a life threatening ailment or injury? Most informed people around the world come to this country for the best care on the planet.

[Thai Kimchi]

It's all about the money. Yes, the US has the finest 'health care' money can buy, true. But don't conveniently drop that word 'money' when discussing our for-profit health care system for the general population.

If your check book runs thin on a regular basis, in the US you're just plain screwed. And god help ya if you lose that job or exhibit human frailty by taking sick - you're no longer a good bet over at UHC, b'bye. Oh, and don't run up too big a bill - we cut you off per the small print on that piece of paper you signed.

Anyone supporting the insurance industry in this debate while trashing their own government is just plain ignorant at best, butt stupid at worst. There they are panicking about 'rationing' when their own for-profit insurance company benefits have been 'rationed' all the while. Astounding.

No wonder medical tourism is a booming biz.........

http://medicaltourism.com/destination/destination.php?lang=en

[GetAClue]

It's all about the money. Yes, the US has the finest 'health care' money can buy, true. But don't conveniently drop that word 'money' when discussing our for-profit health care system for the general population.

If your check book runs thin on a regular basis, in the US you're just plain screwed. And god help ya if you lose that job or exhibit human frailty by taking sick - you're no longer a good bet over at UHC, b'bye. Oh, and don't run up too big a bill - we cut you off per the small print on that piece of paper you signed.

Anyone supporting the insurance industry in this debate while trashing their own government is just plain ignorant at best, butt stupid at worst. There they are panicking about 'rationing' when their own for-profit insurance company benefits have been 'rationed' all the while. Astounding.

No wonder medical tourism is a booming biz.........

http://medicaltourism.com/destination/destination.php?lang=en
I agree that money makes a difference. The more you have, the better you are treated. But I also don't know of anyone that has ever been denied care due to an inability to pay for it. My mother-in-law doesn’t have 2 nickels to rub together, yet she was on life support for a week and then in the hospital for another 2 weeks. She does not stand a chance of ever beginning to pay that bill, yet her wages have not been garnished, and she has not been sued. She pays a monthly token about to the hospital and goes about her business.

I also know of people that have run up astronomical hospital bills that have filed for bankruptcy. All they lost was a credit rating. They didn’t loose their home, cars or any other possessions. If you didn’t know better, you would not know that they had just defaulted on over $100,000 of hospital bills. And the care they received was excellent.

Now could we do things to improve these situations? Of course we could. But to scrap everything and start over is foolish at best and completely asinine at worst. As I stated in another thread, it would be like calling to have your home air conditioning fixed and having them bulldoze your house to build a new one. Not necessarily the plan you had in mind.