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bairdi
08-15-2009, 02:36 PM
Great article. I've taken the liberty of adding some relevant comment.:lmao2:
Of course this will disappear quickly without nary a conservative comment.
Funny how facts shut them up.
The GOP's Misplaced Rage
by Bruce Bartlett
August 12, 2009 | 11:03pm

Leading conservative economist Bruce Bartlett writes that the Obama-hating town-hall mobs have it wrong—the person they should be angry with left the White House seven months ago.

Where is the evidence that everything would be better if Republicans were in charge? Does anyone believe the economy would be growing faster or that unemployment would be lower today if John McCain had won the election? I know of no economist who holds that view. The economy is like an ocean liner that turns only very slowly. The gross domestic product and the level of employment would be pretty much the same today under any conceivable set of policies enacted since Barack Obama’s inauguration.

Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect.

In January, the Congressional Budget Office projected a deficit this year of $1.2 trillion before Obama took office, with no estimate for actions he might take. To a large extent, the CBO’s estimate simply represented the $482 billion deficit projected by the Bush administration in last summer’s budget review, plus the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program, which George W. Bush rammed through Congress in September over strenuous conservative objections. Thus the vast bulk of this year’s currently estimated $1.8 trillion deficit was determined by Bush’s policies, not Obama’s.Are you reading this Chief???

I think conservative anger is misplaced.Are you comprehending this LL7? To a large extent, Obama is only cleaning up messes created by Bush. This is not to say Obama hasn’t made mistakes himself, but even they can be blamed on Bush insofar as Bush’s incompetence led to the election of a Democrat. If he had done half as good a job as most Republicans have talked themselves into believing he did, McCain would have won easily.

Conservative protesters should remember that the recession, which led to so many of the policies they oppose, is almost entirely the result of Bush’s policies. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the recession began in December 2007—long before Obama was even nominated. And the previous recession ended in November 2001, so the current recession cannot be blamed on cyclical forces that Bush inherited.

Indeed, Bush’s responsibility for the recession is implicit in every conservative analysis of its origins. The most thorough has been done by John Taylor, a respected economist from Stanford University who served during most of the Bush administration as the No. 3 official at the Treasury Department. In his book, Getting Off Track, he puts most of the blame on the Federal Reserve for holding interest rates down too low for too long.

While the Fed does bear much responsibility for sowing the seeds of recession, it’s commonly treated as an institution independent of politics and even the government itself. But the Federal Reserve Board consists of governors appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

Because the president appoints the board, he has primary influence over its policies. This is especially the case for chairmen of the Fed appointed by Republicans because they often have ties to Republican administrations. Chairman Ben Bernanke was originally appointed as a member of the Fed in 2002, serving until 2005, when he became chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers in the White House, a position that made him Bush’s chief economic adviser.

As early as 2002, a majority of the seven-member Federal Reserve Board was Bush appointees, and by 2006 every member was a Bush appointee. While many critical decisions about monetary policy are made by the Federal Open Market Committee, the board’s position always prevails.

The Treasury secretary also has had breakfast with the Fed chairman on a weekly basis for decades. Consequently, most economists generally believe that every administration ultimately gets the Fed policy it wants. Therefore, one must conclude that if there were errors in Fed policy that caused the current downturn, it must be because the Fed was doing what the Bush administration wanted it to do.

To the extent that there were mistakes in housing policy that contributed to the recession, those were necessarily committed by Bush political appointees at the Department of Housing and Urban Development, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and other agencies. To the extent that banks and other financial institutions made mistakes or engaged in fraudulent activity, it was either overlooked or sanctioned by Bush appointees at the Securities & Exchange Commission, the Comptroller of the Currency, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, and elsewhere.

But in a larger sense, the extremely poor economic performance of the Bush years really set the stage for the current recession. Got it rg? (if you are lurking) This is apparent when we compare Bush’s two terms to Bill Clinton’s eight years. Since both took office close to a business cycle trough and left office close to a cyclical peak, this is a reasonable comparison.

Throughout the Bush years, many conservative economists, including CNBC’s Larry Kudlow, extravagantly extolled Bush’s economic policies. As late as December 21, 2007, after the recession already began, he wrote in National Review: “the Goldilocks economy is outperforming all expectations.” In a column on May 2, 2008, almost six months into the recession, Kudlow praised Bush for having prevented a recession. (Again rg...how many Kudlow columns did you post over the years?)

But the truth was always that the economy performed very, very badly under Bush, and the best efforts of his cheerleaders cannot change that fact because the data don’t lie. Consider these comparisons between Bush and Clinton:

• Between the fourth quarter of 1992 and the fourth quarter of 2000, real GDP grew 34.7 percent. Between the fourth quarter of 2000 and the fourth quarter of 2008, it grew 15.9 percent, less than half as much.

• Between the fourth quarter of 1992 and the fourth quarter of 2000, real gross private domestic investment almost doubled. By the fourth quarter of 2008, real investment was 6.5 percent lower than it was when Bush was elected.

• Between December 1992 and December 2000, payroll employment increased by more than 23 million jobs, an increase of 21.1 percent. Between December 2000 and December 2008, it rose by a little more than 2.5 million, an increase of 1.9 percent. In short, about 10 percent as many jobs were created on Bush’s watch as were created on Clinton’s.

• During the Bush years, conservative economists often dismissed the dismal performance of the economy by pointing to a rising stock market. But the stock market was lackluster during the Bush years, especially compared to the previous eight. Between December 1992 and December 2000, the S&P 500 Index more than doubled. Between December 2000 and December 2008, it fell 34 percent. People would have been better off putting all their investments into cash under a mattress the day Bush took office.

• Finally, conservatives have an absurdly unjustified view that Republicans have a better record on federal finances. It is well-known that Clinton left office with a budget surplus and Bush left with the largest deficit in history. Less well-known is Clinton’s cutting of spending on his watch, reducing federal outlays from 22.1 percent of GDP to 18.4 percent of GDP. Bush, by contrast, increased spending to 20.9 percent of GDP. Clinton abolished a federal entitlement program, Welfare, for the first time in American history, while Bush established a new one for prescription drugs.

Conservatives delude themselves that the Bush tax cuts worked and that the best medicine for America’s economic woes is more tax cuts; at a minimum, any tax increase would be economic poison. They forget that Ronald Reagan worked hard to pass one of the largest tax increases in American history in September 1982, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act, even though the nation was still in a recession that didn’t end until November of that year.Get a clue? Indeed, one could easily argue that the enactment of that legislation was a critical prerequisite to recovery because it led to a decline in interest rates. The same could be said of Clinton’s 1993 tax increase, which many conservatives predicted would cause a recession but led to one of the biggest economic booms in history.

According to the CBO, federal taxes will amount to just 15.5 percent of GDP this year. That’s 2.2 percent of GDP less than last year, 3.3 percent less than in 2007, and 1.8 percent less than the lowest percentage recorded during the Reagan years. If conservatives really believe their own rhetoric, they should be congratulating Obama for being one of the greatest tax cutters in history.

Conservatives will respond that some tax cuts are good while others are not. Determining which is which is based on something called supply-side economics. Because I was among those who developed it, I think I can speak authoritatively on the subject. According to the supply-side view, temporary tax cuts and tax credits are economically valueless. Only permanent cuts in marginal tax rates will significantly raise growth.

On this basis, we see that Bush’s tax cuts were pretty much the opposite of what supply-side economics would recommend. The vast bulk of his tax cuts involved tax rebates—which failed in 2001 and again in 2008, because the vast bulk of the money was saved—or tax credits that had no incentive effects. While marginal rates were cut slightly—the top rate fell from 39.6 percent to 35 percent—it was phased in slowly and never made permanent. Neither were Bush’s cuts in capital gains and dividend taxes.

I could go on to discuss other Bush mistakes that had negative economic consequences, such as the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which imposed a massive regulatory burden on corporations without doing anything to prevent corporate misconduct, and starting unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which will burden the economy for decades to come in the form of veterans’ benefits.

But there is yet another dimension to Bush’s failures—the things he didn’t do. In this category I would put a health-care overhaul. Budget experts have known for years that Medicare was on an unsustainable financial path. It is impossible to pay all the benefits that have been promised because spending has been rising faster than GDP.

In 2003, the Bush administration repeatedly lied about the cost of the drug benefit to get it passed, and Bush himself heavily pressured reluctant conservatives to vote for the program.

Because reforming Medicare is an important part of getting health costs under control generally, Bush could have used the opportunity to develop a comprehensive health-reform plan. By not doing so, he left his party with nothing to offer as an alternative to the Obama plan. Instead, Republicans have opposed Obama's initiative while proposing nothing themselves.

In my opinion, conservative activists, who seem to believe that the louder they shout the more correct their beliefs must be, are less angry about Obama’s policies than they are about having lost the White House in 2008. They are primarily Republican Party hacks trying to overturn the election results, not representatives of a true grassroots revolt against liberal policies. If that were the case they would have been out demonstrating against the Medicare drug benefit, the Sarbanes-Oxley bill, and all the pork-barrel spending that Bush refused to veto.

Until conservatives once again hold Republicans to the same standard they hold Democrats, they will have no credibility and deserve no respect. They can start building some by admitting to themselves that Bush caused many of the problems they are protesting.

Bruce Bartlett was one of the original supply-siders, helping draft the Kemp-Roth tax bill in the 1970s. In the 1980s and 1990s, he was a leading Republican economist. He now considers himself to be a political independent. He is the author of Reaganomics: Supply-Side Economics in Action and Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy . His latest book, The New American Economy: The Failure of Reaganomics and a New Way Forward, will be published by Palgrave Macmillan in October.
URL: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-08-12/the-gops-misplaced-rage/p/

MintJulep
08-15-2009, 02:50 PM
Sorry, Boooossshh did it doesn't fly any more.

Bush wasn't hellbent on destroying our healthcare system.

THAT'S what everyone is so angry about. Including me.

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 03:14 PM
Sorry, Boooossshh did it doesn't fly any more.

Bush wasn't hellbent on destroying our healthcare system.

THAT'S what everyone is so angry about. Including me.


The Bush administration, along with a Republican Congress for 6 of his 8 years, are directly responsible for $1.2B deficit, lady. And that deficit is what your teabaggin'/birther/deather pals claim to be all riled up about when considering the cost of Obama's proposals. To now say it's not part of the conversation is either disingenuous or or ignorant.....one of the two.

Smurf-Herder
08-15-2009, 03:31 PM
Just another distraction to excuse anything involving Obama.

Regardless of what Bush did, it doesn't excuse Obama over-spending us into oblivion; just so he can remold the US into his image.

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 03:49 PM
Just another distraction to excuse anything involving Obama.

Regardless of what Bush did, it doesn't excuse Obama over-spending us into oblivion; just so he can remold the US into his image.

Smurf, you apparently avoided math classes early on.

What part of Obama inheriting a $1.2B yearly budget deficit from BUSH eludes you? Are you aware the additional debt is coming from Obama's quite successful efforts to avoid the total financial meltdown Bush and Paulson left for him to clean-up? You're not making any sense whatsoever.

It's amusing watching these disgraced Bush voters, who spent 8 straight years blaming CLINTON for Bush's every mistake....and now another Dem comes along and it's time to blame him, FROM DAY ONE.

The Bush droids ain't the most intelligent bunch - guess it should come as no surprise they would continue parroting whichever wingnut lie comes down the pike. Truly pathetic.

Smurf-Herder
08-15-2009, 03:53 PM
Smurf, you apparently avoided math classes early on.

What part of Obama inheriting a $1.2B yearly budget deficit from BUSH eludes you? Are you aware the additional debt is coming from Obama's quite successful efforts to avoid the total financial meltdown Bush and Paulson left for him to clean-up? You're not making any sense whatsoever.

It's amusing watching these disgraced Bush voters, who spent 8 straight years blaming CLINTON for Bush's every mistake....and now another Dem comes along and it's time to blame him, FROM DAY ONE.

The Bush droids ain't the most intelligent bunch - guess it should come as no surprise they would continue parroting whichever wingnut lie comes down the pike. Truly pathetic.

You're totally ignoring all the new over-spending he's coming up with, on top of anything inherited from Bush.

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 04:30 PM
You're totally ignoring all the new over-spending he's coming up with, on top of anything inherited from Bush.

I am? As I post, the House Committee is working out the payment details. The new health plan's fate depends on funding. Obama himself has acknowledged that publicly in press conferences and town halls.

Smurf, quit tap dancing around the board. You know as well as I you can't stand Obama, lib'rals, and whichever 'other' threat you see on the horizon.

This has NOTHING to do with the reforms underway - and EVERYTHING to do with destroying that damn black Democrat sitting in the WH. If you had any degree of integrity, you'd admit that and stop this charade.

Smurf-Herder
08-15-2009, 04:39 PM
I am? As I post, the House Committee is working out the payment details. The new health plan's fate depends on funding. Obama himself has acknowledged that publicly in press conferences and town halls.

Smurf, quit tap dancing around the board. You know as well as I you can't stand Obama, lib'rals, and whichever 'other' threat you see on the horizon.

This has NOTHING to do with the reforms underway - and EVERYTHING to do with destroying that damn black Democrat sitting in the WH. If you had any degree of integrity, you'd admit that and stop this charade.


Are you calling me a racist?

You are ignoring how Obama's spending is sending us over the cliff. So stop with your childish responses. The guy's an ideological nighmare, when it comes to getting what he wants, regardless of what the economy will stand.

Betty Blowtorch
08-15-2009, 04:43 PM
The Bush administration, along with a Republican Congress for
6 of his 8 years, are directly responsible for $1.2B deficit, lady.
You've mentioned this $1.2B deficit twice. Maybe I'm missing
something here, but to me $1.2B means $1.2 billion, which is
about what the federal government spends every 8 hours.

Did you mean $1.2 trillion? That makes more sense to me.

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 04:43 PM
Are you calling me a racist?

You are ignoring how Obama's spending is sending us over the cliff. So stop with your childish responses. The guy's an ideological nighmare, when it comes to getting what he wants, regardless of what the economy will stand.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. Racism is what motivates all birthers/deathers/teabaggers/internet board posting wingnuts (you).

You come-off like OxyRush having a bad day.

In fact, you're boring me to tears......time to get some Saturday chores done.


Best of luck

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 04:44 PM
You've mentioned this $1.2B deficit twice. Maybe I'm missing
something here, but to me $1.2B means $1.2 billion, which is
about what the federal government spends every 8 hours.

Did you mean $1.2 trillion? That makes more sense to me.

You're correct, blowtorch. Meant "T"...........hard keeping up with Bush deficit numbers - they grow exponentially.

Smurf-Herder
08-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. Racism is what motivates all birthers/deathers/teabaggers/internet board posting wingnuts (you).

You come-off like OxyRush having a bad day.

In fact, you're boring me to tears......time to get some Saturday chores done.


Best of luck

Look you asshole, ask anyone on this board how many times I've warned and banned over racial slurs. My 84 year old mother's last boyfriend before she died was black. I was playing with the black kids acorss the street when I was 4, before I even knew there was such a thing as racism. And I dated a black girl in high school. I'm squeaky-clean on that front.

So before you go labeling everybody you disagree with, maybe you should use your little brain. You only further the stereotype of radical liberals being hatefully ignorant.

CosmicRocker
08-15-2009, 05:33 PM
Just another distraction to excuse anything involving Obama.

Regardless of what Bush did, it doesn't excuse Obama over-spending us into oblivion; just so he can remold the US into his image.
we NEED single pay, or the best reform we can in health care.

we DON'T need " cap and trade" - it's a burden solely on US users of energy
( everyone), and is worthless without China/India signing the Protocols.

CBO numbers don't lie. the current National Debt is about $10t.

CBO projections for Obama take it up to $20.8t.

GDP is about 14.6t.

Bush spent recklesly, and got us into 2 useless wars.
Obama wants to AGAIN spend recklesly, and bog us down in Afganistan-
a place NO outsider has EVER been able to occupy.

Bush was a disaster. I'm holding off judgement on Obama, but so far NOT so good.

doctordog
08-15-2009, 05:44 PM
Yes, as a matter of fact, I am. Racism is what motivates all birthers/deathers/teabaggers/internet board posting wingnuts (you).

You come-off like OxyRush having a bad day.

In fact, you're boring me to tears......time to get some Saturday chores done.


Best of luck

Please change your handle to dumbass, since your responses could only be generated by a DUMBASS.

Thai Kimchi
08-15-2009, 06:22 PM
My, my. Look at the wingnuts throw a fit.

You girls need to buck up, and maybe research what you post for at least 45 seconds before hitting that 'post reply'.

By now the Right Wing Lunatic Fringe should be used to this abuse - it's just so easy to debunk their echo chamber nonsense. And fun too!

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 06:26 PM
Please change your handle to dumbass, since your responses could only be generated by a DUMBASS.

Wow.. you just can't respond to any post without throwing out insults. What exactly do you contribute to any of these discussions?

doctordog
08-15-2009, 08:10 PM
Wow.. you just can't respond to any post without throwing out insults. What exactly do you contribute to any of these discussions?

As much or more than when you are attacking Senior Chief.

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 08:39 PM
As much or more than when you are attacking Senior Chief.

I will criticize SC just as much as I show respect for him.

You spread hate clear across the board. Your comparison sucks.

doctordog
08-15-2009, 09:34 PM
I will criticize SC just as much as I show respect for him.

You spread hate clear across the board. Your comparison sucks.

You spew more hate in a day of posting than I do in week kid, grow the fuck up.:thumbsup:

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 11:02 PM
You spew more hate in a day of posting than I do in week kid, grow the fuck up.:thumbsup:

Show me. I'm interested to see.

doctordog
08-15-2009, 11:04 PM
Show me. I'm interested to see.

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=121206&postcount=4

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=118202&postcount=57

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=117529&postcount=11

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115613&postcount=21

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115303&postcount=21

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115296&postcount=19

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115259&postcount=8

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=114716&postcount=50

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=113166&postcount=8

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=113137&postcount=12

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112522&postcount=136

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112476&postcount=113

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112063&postcount=29

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115323&postcount=23

Here is just a few of your insults boy, now STFU.

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 11:12 PM
Fuck you, walk like a man kid.

No.. if you make a claim please provide the links to back it up.

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Actually it is your whining about Bush who has been gone for 7 months now, so grow a set will ya?

He is an ignorant canadian that likes to play Monday morning quarterback. (a nice blanket statement)

Lady, I enjoyed your post:thumbsup: but you really shouldn't waste your time on these two pieces of shit. Let them jerk each other off.:D

Please change your handle to dumbass, since your responses could only be generated by a DUMBASS.


Well I am happy for you and your choice, that explains why you live in Frisco

I hope he doesn't morph into this:

575 (nice racial reference)

that mail order degree has served you well:lmao2:


is that because they smoke or drink, drive a new car, can't manage money?

etc, etc, etc.. and thats just the last few days.

doctordog
08-15-2009, 11:39 PM
http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=121206&postcount=4

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=118202&postcount=57

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=117529&postcount=11

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115613&postcount=21

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115303&postcount=21

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115296&postcount=19

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115259&postcount=8

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=114716&postcount=50

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=113166&postcount=8

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=113137&postcount=12

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112522&postcount=136

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112476&postcount=113

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=112063&postcount=29

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=115323&postcount=23

Here is just a few of your insults boy, now STFU.

Hey boy, did your mommy call, where did you run off to? BTW some of mine were jokes to certain members, your were direct, grow the fuck up.

Zebulon0351
08-15-2009, 11:43 PM
Wow.. you had to pull from threads from two months ago. I just pulled from threads from the past few days.

I win.

doctordog
08-15-2009, 11:51 PM
Wow.. you had to pull from threads from two months ago. I just pulled from threads from the past few days.

I win.

Wrong again, you constantly call women the c word and bitch, you have issues with women, we all lose.

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 05:07 AM
Wrong again, you constantly call women the c word and bitch, you have issues with women, we all lose.

Constantly

I tell you what. I will make a deal with you. If you can find just two times that I called anybody a bitch or the C word since that exchange between LadyLiberty and myself, I will leave this site forever.

That is the difference between you and I Wayner, I fucked up, was called out on my bullshit, and I apologized and moved on. I recognized how inappropriate that was and I reached down... grabbed my balls... and manned up to my faults.

But with that aside: this is your opportunity to chase me away from this entire site by proving that I constantly call people these names.

Prove your accusations Wayner.. I proved mine, now it's your turn.

Bill Cosby
08-16-2009, 06:00 AM
Constantly

I tell you what. I will make a deal with you. If you can find just two times that I called anybody a bitch or the C word since that exchange between LadyLiberty and myself, I will leave this site forever.

That is the difference between you and I Wayner, I fucked up, was called out on my bullshit, and I apologized and moved on. I recognized how inappropriate that was and I reached down... grabbed my balls... and manned up to my faults.

But with that aside: this is your opportunity to chase me away from this entire site by proving that I constantly call people these names.

Prove your accusations Wayner.. I proved mine, now it's your turn.

My choice for post of the year....:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Dog is a great guy as you will see but that is one of the best posts I have ever read...

bairdi
08-16-2009, 09:16 AM
Sorry, Boooossshh did it doesn't fly any more.

Bush wasn't hellbent on destroying our healthcare system.

THAT'S what everyone is so angry about. Including me.
To say that Obama is hellbent on destroying our healthcare system is akin to saying that Bill Gates is hellbent on destroying personal computing. In other words, your statement is ridiculous.

Smurf-Herder
08-16-2009, 11:34 AM
IMO, it's all about control. If the government controls everything involving banking, the auto industry, health care, the environment and energy. They can justify unlimited regulations on every aspect of the lives of the general population. And do it in a way that bypasses the checks and balances of Congress, through the Executive branch czars and their respective agencies they've created.

Bill Cosby
08-16-2009, 11:47 AM
Good point but let me ask you this.......

If the gov is so shity, can't even run the post office correctly & all that why should I/we fear them "taking over our lives" any more efficiently???

We have spouses, friends & relatives continually trying to influence us & push us around.... From most of the arguments I hear they (the gov) should be the weakest link.......!!!! :dunno:

It seems here in the USA we the ppl often fear the government..... In France the government fears the ppl..........

SO how do we get a little closer to what the French have???

Dale escondido
08-16-2009, 11:57 AM
I dont know if all the insults and calling any disagreements with obama is racist or just good old fun folks,
obamas in the office and I think hes on a very bad course.
If I am wrong and things actually get better, meaning free market returns and government get deficiets under some control then we all win.
If I am right then the liberals will be silent again and have to become conservatives, at least fiscally as in the 30s.

Smurf-Herder
08-16-2009, 11:58 AM
Good point but let me ask you this.......

If the gov is so shity, can't even run the post office correctly & all that why should I/we fear them "taking over our lives" any more efficiently???

We have spouses, friends & relatives continually trying to influence us & push us around.... From most of the arguments I hear they (the gov) should be the weakest link.......!!!! :dunno:

It seems here in the USA we the ppl often fear the government..... In France the government fears the ppl..........

SO how do we get a little closer to what the French have???

Term limits - along with being more vocal over government oversight committees doing their job.

The problem at this point is, any individual or group pushing for more government accountability gets labeled a wacko or a racists by those supporting their party in power, out of pure partisan sentiment. So nothing gets solved. In other words, we'll never be able to clean up government, as long as those in power have us fighting each other over left or right.

We have to be able to see beyond that and get real about where we're going; instead of just rubber-stamping what our respective political leaders say.

We need a strong third party to put an end to the chaos ... if it isn't too late already.

Thai Kimchi
08-16-2009, 12:11 PM
IMO, it's all about control. If the government controls everything involving banking, the auto industry, health care, the environment and energy.

That is the same straw man argument Libertarians and most conservatives have relied upon since mankind morphed into civil society, which required a form of government to progress. Without government, you have chaos and survival of the fittest in a jungle like setting.

So the intellectually lazy and therefore disingenuous approach for those who quite naturally put their own interests FAR above the greater society's is to blast ANY degree of government regulation as 'total government control'.

That's the straw man argument......no one on the Left is calling for 'total government control'. In the US, that's never happened to any significant degree at any time in our history. It's pure scare tactic ala straw man 'issue'. The GOP have become masters at this.

To this day, even after the SEC's near total lack of WS regulation, and the banking deregulation the Republican Congress ran through in 1999 (which Clinton, like an idiot/sellout, signed) caused a near-total melt down, and continues to be the driving force behind the worst Recession sine the 1930's, the righties carry on the quest, chanting "Regulation kills business!" ad nauseum.

Libertarians and wealthy Republicans desperately wish to cast 'big government' as the bad guy, while they loot the till. That's the game, and they play it quite well. For them, a single gub'mint regulation on their business practices would equate to Stalinism. It's all or nothing, and the sheeple fall for it decade after decade.

Strong, effective regulation on commerce is one of the federal and state governments' cardinal responsibilities. Right up there with national defense for the feds, and public schools/roads for the stateys. Extremely critical.

To say we should trust the greater business community to regulate and police itself is crazy talk......unless you stand to make a killing on the resulting unlevel playing field.

Binky
08-16-2009, 12:24 PM
Constantly

I tell you what. I will make a deal with you. If you can find just two times that I called anybody a bitch or the C word since that exchange between LadyLiberty and myself, I will leave this site forever.

That is the difference between you and I Wayner, I fucked up, was called out on my bullshit, and I apologized and moved on. I recognized how inappropriate that was and I reached down... grabbed my balls... and manned up to my faults.

But with that aside: this is your opportunity to chase me away from this entire site by proving that I constantly call people these names.

Prove your accusations Wayner.. I proved mine, now it's your turn.



And yes you did apoligize for using that word...........:D Twice.......:D Thank you, thank you, thank you.......:D Now you boys kiss and make up please.....:thumbsup: Here, I'll start ya off.............Kiss, Kiss, smack, smack, slobber, slobber.

kres24GT
08-16-2009, 12:30 PM
Republicans absolutely have no one to blame but themselves, like good sheep they supported the Big Spenders, Big Government lovers in Bush and the Republican Congress (McCain included), despite these people being anything but conservative. Because of that the Democrats took control. Too many sheep in the party, they will continue to support the liberals within the party like Bush and McCain simply because of the letter next o their name. And will continue to lose.

Smurf-Herder
08-16-2009, 12:34 PM
That is the same straw man argument Libertarians and most conservatives have relied upon since mankind morphed into civil society, which required a form of government to progress. Without government, you have chaos and survival of the fittest in a jungle like setting.

So the intellectually lazy and therefore disingenuous approach for those who quite naturally put their own interests FAR above the greater society's is to blast ANY degree of government regulation as 'total government control'.

That's the straw man argument......no one on the Left is calling for 'total government control'. In the US, that's never happened to any significant degree at any time in our history. It's pure scare tactic ala straw man 'issue'. The GOP have become masters at this.

To this day, even after the SEC's near total lack of WS regulation, and the banking deregulation the Republican Congress ran through in 1999 (which Clinton, like an idiot/sellout, signed) caused a near-total melt down, and continues to be the driving force behind the worst Recession sine the 1930's, the righties carry on the quest, chanting "Regulation kills business!" ad nauseum.

Libertarians and wealthy Republicans desperately wish to cast 'big government' as the bad guy, while they loot the till. That's the game, and they play it quite well. For them, a single gub'mint regulation on their business practices would equate to Stalinism. It's all or nothing, and the sheeple fall for it decade after decade.

Strong, effective regulation on commerce is one of the federal and state governments' cardinal responsibilities. Right up there with national defense for the feds, and public schools/roads for the stateys. Extremely critical.

To say we should trust the greater business community to regulate and police itself is crazy talk......unless you stand to make a killing on the resulting unlevel playing field.

It isn't a straw man argument. And everything Obama is doing pushes more governmental control over our lives than ever before. It's unprecedented the things he's doing - and rushing everything through. You can't look at his nearly three doaen czars and say that's typical. All you're doing is presenting a partisan argument. Just continuing the cover for big government to take over our lives.

BTW, I'm not saying I trust the Republicans either. I'm just saying they were taling us into Orwellian territory at a slower pace.

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 02:20 PM
*BUMP......

Still waiting on the results of your research Wayner. Anytime now.

doctordog
08-16-2009, 02:27 PM
*BUMP......

Still waiting on the results of your research Wayner. Anytime now.

I only found one and I am tired of looking, the 2nd linked post you did call someone a bitch, there was another marginal one, there were several with dumbass and asswipe. I don't care one way or the other, I just found it funny that you wanted to point me out for something that you are just at guilty of.

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 02:32 PM
I only found one and I am tired of looking, the 2nd linked post you did call someone a bitch, there was another marginal one, there were several with dumbass and asswipe. I don't care one way or the other, I just found it funny that you wanted to point me out for something that you are just at guilty of.

So.. you admit that I do not constantly call people a bitch or "the c word."

You had to pull post from 2 months ago from me.. all I had to do was look from the past week.

Great job on your research Wayner.. for some reason I feel good that you wasted an hour of your life looking through my posts.

doctordog
08-16-2009, 02:36 PM
So.. you admit that I do not constantly call people a bitch or "the c word."

You had to pull post from 2 months ago from me.. all I had to do was look from the past week.

Great job on your research Wayner.. for some reason I feel good that you wasted an hour of your life looking through my posts.

4 minutes, and you have a third as many post. you examples about me were not direct, one was directed at group. I feel good that you represent the typical left crying about non issues.

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 02:37 PM
4 minutes, and you have a third as many post. you examples about me were not direct, one was directed at group. I feel good that you represent the typical left crying about non issues.

Non-issues like death-panels?

doctordog
08-16-2009, 02:38 PM
Non-issues like death-panels?

Boy that one went right over you head!:lmao2:

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 02:45 PM
Boy that one went right over you head!:lmao2:


Still waiting on your two links.

Until then, please feel free to keep making yourself look like an ass.

Life_Long_Dem!
08-16-2009, 02:50 PM
people like wayers and ll7 live for and feed off of debunked non issues like death panels

ROdger Right
08-16-2009, 03:47 PM
Even thoguh there will be panels deciding who lives and dies in some issues, so I understand where they will be getting their name. "death panel"

What else would 27 people do getting paid sitting around thinking of way of saving money?

Where do they get 27 anyways? I know it adds up to 9 which is supposed to be a good thing but it seems like a couple to many

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 05:09 PM
Fine: It's settled. I have not called anyone the C word or a bitch since my encounter with LadyLiberty.

Great hunting Wayner.. Got anything else about me you want to just throw out there hoping nobody realizes you are full of shit?

You've been exposed.. are you capable of original thought? Or do you just get by with talking points and mudslinging?

doctordog
08-16-2009, 05:22 PM
Fine: It's settled. I have not called anyone the C word or a bitch since my encounter with LadyLiberty.

Great hunting Wayner.. Got anything else about me you want to just throw out there hoping nobody realizes you are full of shit?

You've been exposed.. are you capable of original thought? Or do you just get by with talking points and mudslinging?

LIAR, the second link in the list on links posted earlier, too damn stupid to go back and read boy?

Binky
08-16-2009, 05:23 PM
So.. you admit that I do not constantly call people a bitch or "the c word."

You had to pull post from 2 months ago from me.. all I had to do was look from the past week.

Great job on your research Wayner.. for some reason I feel good that you wasted an hour of your life looking through my posts.


Aw........you got him on that one Way.....:D

Binky
08-16-2009, 05:25 PM
people like wayers and ll7 live for and feed off of debunked non issues like death panels



Is that what bottom feeders are? :lmao2:

Binky
08-16-2009, 05:29 PM
Fine: It's settled. I have not called anyone the C word or a bitch since my encounter with LadyLiberty.

Great hunting Wayner.. Got anything else about me you want to just throw out there hoping nobody realizes you are full of shit?

You've been exposed.. are you capable of original thought? Or do you just get by with talking points and mudslinging?



Yea........I am so berry, berry, berry proud of you..... good job.:thumbsup:

doctordog
08-16-2009, 05:30 PM
Yea........I am so berry, berry, berry proud of you..... good job.:thumbsup:

I already posted them the first time Binky, he is too lazy to go back and read them

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 06:28 PM
LIAR, the second link in the list on links posted earlier, too damn stupid to go back and read boy?

To remind you of your own words:

Wrong again, you constantly call women the c word and bitch, you have issues with women, we all lose

I don't know about you, but according to my observations Hog does not resemble a woman. But if you want to go on assuming that he is a transvestite, that is an issue you will have to take up with him... or her... or whatever lable you choose.

doctordog
08-16-2009, 07:02 PM
To remind you of your own words:



I don't know about you, but according to my observations Hog does not resemble a woman. But if you want to go on assuming that he is a transvestite, that is an issue you will have to take up with him... or her... or whatever lable you choose.

You said anybody, not just women. Please Lie some more like your President.

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=122269&postcount=27

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 07:45 PM
You said anybody, not just women. Please Lie some more like your President.

http://www.dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=122269&postcount=27

Ok man, do you really want to play the semantics game? Your accusations about me were directly about my calling the women on this board certain names.

Me calling Hog a "bitch" carries a total different meaning and level of degradation if I were to call a female the same thing. As I said before.. I was called out on it, and I stopped. And pretty much across the board I have cut back on my mudslinging.

I haven't lied yet.

Nice try...

doctordog
08-16-2009, 07:49 PM
Ok man, do you really want to play the semantics game? Your accusations about me were directly about my calling the women on this board certain names.

Me calling Hog a "bitch" carries a total different meaning and level of degradation if I were to call a female the same thing. As I said before.. I was called out on it, and I stopped. And pretty much across the board I have cut back on my mudslinging.

I haven't lied yet.

Nice try...

You said "anybody" just like I said "constantly", so you lied, posters in general you are just as bad. Care to lie anymore today?

Smurf-Herder
08-16-2009, 08:18 PM
You said "anybody" just like I said "constantly", so you lied, posters in general you are just as bad. Care to lie anymore today?

Maybe somebody might post something on the topic, instead of going on and on ... and on ........ and on............. and on................... and on ................. :doh:

doctordog
08-16-2009, 08:23 PM
Maybe somebody might post something on the topic, instead of going on and on ... and on ........ and on............. and on................... and on ................. :doh:

I agree, these two act like two nagging wives.

Zebulon0351
08-16-2009, 08:38 PM
You said "anybody" just like I said "constantly", so you lied, posters in general you are just as bad. Care to lie anymore today?

Semantics... it was in direct response to your post.

ROdger Right
08-16-2009, 09:20 PM
Misplaced rage, is that like when Hera made Herculese kill his family by sending him into a huge rage session? then he had to go kill the evil Hera was trying to kill him with through the king on the blood quest.

Bill Cosby
08-17-2009, 12:50 AM
Misplaced rage, is that like when Hera made Herculese kill his family by sending him into a huge rage session? then he had to go kill the evil Hera was trying to kill him with through the king on the blood quest.

Yea maybe by talking on the topic we can derail the derail.... :lmao2: :lmao2:

:thumbsup:

I think anyone that has worked for or w/ the public has seen it happen alot...

& don't think it is intentional very often........ We all have moods & things happen & that spills over into our daily lives...