Here is a link to how much doctors make, is it too much money for what they do?

[Surfrider]

Following is a link from 2003 by Allied Physicians of how much money doctors make in specific fields of medicine, do you think they make too much money?

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/february252008/doctor_money.jpg

[Cookie]

Nope. The market plus scarcity (notice the high amts. paid to specialists which are highly skilled and few of) sets the prices.
________
Marijuana test (http://drugtestingkit.org)

[Citizen]

A question for you - If a doctor was about to work on your spine would a 5 figure salary doctor put your mind at ease or would a doctor earning 7 figures? Answer truthfully.

[mwillman]

I would be much more interested in their history as a doctor.
Where they a good student, have they done this surgery before.
What is their record on the surgery.

How much money they have or make would mean little to nothing to me.

[MintJulep]

^ agree totally, mwillman.

[deadnun]

Considering most of them work about 60 hours a week on average,
no, I do not think it is too much.

[Cookie]

A question for you - If a doctor was about to work on your spine would a 5 figure salary doctor put your mind at ease or would a doctor earning 7 figures? Answer truthfully.

The amount of money they make is irrelevant. Training and experience would be the main consideration.
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Third-generation ford mustang specifications (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Third-generation_Ford_Mustang)

[Independent Harry]

These figures are from 2003. I would bet they have dropped dramatically. These also were only specialties. I think you're general practitioners are only averaging about 80k these days.

[Cookie]

These figures are from 2003. I would bet they have dropped dramatically. These also were only specialties. I think you're general practitioners are only averaging about 80k these days.


Why do you think salaries have dropped? Are we turning out more doctors than the healthcare system can hire?
________
Volcano Vaporizer (http://twitter.com/vaporizer)

[Independent Harry]

Why do you think salaries have dropped? Are we turning out more doctors than the healthcare system can hire?

It's mostly due to insurance companies. When doctors run a business especially general practitioners, they have to hire at least two people just to handle insurance claims. Insurance companies delay and delay on paying, the doctors have to fight and fight with them. So they loose time seeing patients, they loose money having to hire more people. They loose money because of claims being denied that should have been paid. It all adds up to them spending more time doing things that don't make them money than doing the things that do.

As well, these doctors have to pay a lot higher costs on malpractice insurance. Outrages costs, tort reform is needed badly. But the biggest cause is the health insurance companies. Also they are getting paid less/client because of PPO and HMO negotiated rates.

[Bill Cosby]

& YOu know what is so sad about that whole deal...

As many of those GP can not even afford HC for themselves & their employees...

I have a friend, a niece & a nephew that are dentist............ (& one on the way)

My friend has been a Dentist for several years & yet his wife needs to go work in the office of another Dentist in order to get HC for their family............

IMO that is sad....

[Cookie]

It's mostly due to insurance companies. When doctors run a business especially general practitioners, they have to hire at least two people just to handle insurance claims. Insurance companies delay and delay on paying, the doctors have to fight and fight with them. So they loose time seeing patients, they loose money having to hire more people. They loose money because of claims being denied that should have been paid. It all adds up to them spending more time doing things that don't make them money than doing the things that do.

As well, these doctors have to pay a lot higher costs on malpractice insurance. Outrages costs, tort reform is needed badly. But the biggest cause is the health insurance companies. Also they are getting paid less/client because of PPO and HMO negotiated rates.


I thought we were talking about their base pay. I guess I don't understand because you pointed out gen. practitioners were making less.

I looked up the base pay for GP's, and depending on the market they practice in, can make anywhere between $93K to $146K with less than one year experience.
________
Mercedes-benz 190 specifications (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_190)

[Cookie]

& YOu know what is so sad about that whole deal...

As many of those GP can not even afford HC for themselves & their employees...

I have a friend, a niece & a nephew that are dentist............ (& one on the way)

My friend has been a Dentist for several years & yet his wife needs to go work in the office of another Dentist in order to get HC for their family............

IMO that is sad....


Geez, the dentists around here are making a fortune! They have the spiffiest new offices ever; some have bird aviaries in front of the patient chairs to help them relax, video screens, and piped in music.

My grandson's orthodontist lets Caleb watch videos about how to take care of his braces....that way he doesn't waste time on teaching!
________
Vapir no2 (http://no2vaporizers.com)

[Surfrider]

Nope. The market plus scarcity (notice the high amts. paid to specialists which are highly skilled and few of) sets the prices.

Thank you, Doctor.

http://www.legaljuice.com/Doctor%20cartoon%20bad%20funny%20silly%20good.jpg

[Thai Kimchi]

Dr's pay is not the problem.

The US spends twice as much on heatlh care (16% of GDP) than all the industrialized Western Democracies.

This is because unlike those other industrialized Western nations, we have this HUGE for-profit money-sucking machine referred to as "Health Insurance Providers" right there in the middle of it, sucking cash by the trainload out of the system. Their very existence is totally unnecessary, that is a fact.

There ya go. So the only question remaining is: should Americans be forced to pay the salaries of useless bureaucrats? And if so, why? To help the overall economy? Wouldn't that be a form of 'socialism'?

[Citizen]

The amount of money they make is irrelevant. Training and experience would be the main consideration.

False, this is totally relevant. Training and experience with regards to salary usually go hand in hand. Doctors don't get all their training and extra 5 years of medical school so they can earn just as much as someone who only had to go to school for 4 years. And actually I'm a little surprised I thought doctor's would be earning more than what's in that link.

[Cookie]

False, this is totally relevant. Training and experience with regards to salary usually go hand in hand. Doctors don't get all their training and extra 5 years of medical school so they can earn just as much as someone who only had to go to school for 4 years. And actually I'm a little surprised I thought doctor's would be earning more than what's in that link.


If I have a tricky procedure coming up, I'm going to ask the doc how many of them he does in a month, or year. I'm not going to care how much money he's paid to do them.
________
TS125 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_TS125)

[Citizen]

If I have a tricky procedure coming up, I'm going to ask the doc how many of them he does in a month, or year. I'm not going to care how much money he's paid to do them.

Salaries and skill more often than not go hand in hand in medical practice. Positive word can lead to increased demand which can lead to increased pricing or some variation of that. Its always nice knowing there could be that one slightly more smarter more skilled doctor out there more determined to seek out to better his/her profession because he/she knows the rewards can be reaped. Its not the main determination for choosing a doctor but to say its totally irrelevant is untrue. Its the basic principle of motivation and unfortunately as usual money is that key motivator.

[Binky]

If I have a tricky procedure coming up, I'm going to ask the doc how many of them he does in a month, or year. I'm not going to care how much money he's paid to do them.


Same goes for me. The wage he makes would be the least of my worries. I'd be more concerned as to how many of those he had done and his overall medical experience.

[Bill Cosby]

Geez, the dentists around here are making a fortune! They have the spiffiest new offices ever; some have bird aviaries in front of the patient chairs to help them relax, video screens, and piped in music.

My grandson's orthodontist lets Caleb watch videos about how to take care of his braces....that way he doesn't waste time on teaching!

Yea but there are a lot of them here.......... The school is very expensive... San Francisco state......... Just living in San Francisco is crazy........ I think the highest in the nation.........

You are in debt for many, many years - before you even buy the equipment..

Most attempt to buy a practice (that comes w/ the clients) so you can imagine trying to buy that.........???

Add to that the cost of med insurance for you & the wife????

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Independent Harry]

I thought we were talking about their base pay. I guess I don't understand because you pointed out gen. practitioners were making less.

I looked up the base pay for GP's, and depending on the market they practice in, can make anywhere between $93K to $146K with less than one year experience.

right, but is that their net pay or gross pay? That's the real question...

[Bill Cosby]

If I have a tricky procedure coming up, I'm going to ask the doc how many of them he does in a month, or year. I'm not going to care how much money he's paid to do them.

I hope all goes well for you.................

You feeling OK now???

[doctordog]

right, but is that their net pay or gross pay? That's the real question...

Considering some of them are 500,000 in debt after leaving school, that is not unreasonable.

[Bill Cosby]

Yep that amount of debt they come w/ his staggering....

[Cookie]

I hope all goes well for you.................

You feeling OK now???

You're sweet, but I don't have a procedure coming up that I know of.....why, what have you heard? LOL.

I'm not feeling ok. I learned a week ago I have hypothyroidism. It's not making enough thyroid hormone. :(
________
Nsr125 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_NSR125)

[Bill Cosby]

You're sweet, but I don't have a procedure coming up that I know of.....why, what have you heard? LOL.

I'm not feeling ok. I learned a week ago I have hypothyroidism. It's not making enough thyroid hormone. :(

:o :o my luv I missed the ""if""......:mad:

Sorry to hear that..........
I am not really familiar w/ that but is there meds that can help???

[Cookie]

:o :o my luv I missed the ""if""......:mad:

Sorry to hear that..........
I am not really familiar w/ that but is there meds that can help???


Thank you. Yes, another "pill". Oh well, what's one more?
________
Arthur chevrolet specifications (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Arthur_Chevrolet)

[MintJulep]

I'm not feeling ok. I learned a week ago I have hypothyroidism. It's not making enough thyroid hormone. :(I've heard that can make you feel horrible! You'll probably feel like a new person when you get your pill.

[Cookie]

I've heard that can make you feel horrible! You'll probably feel like a new person when you get your pill.

Yes it can. Muscle aches, muscle cramps, crushing fatigue etc. They start you out on a low dose, and build it up over the course of 6 weeks. So far, the muscle cramps are gone, but I'm still exhausted all the time.
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Chevrolet celebrity (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Celebrity)

[Bill Cosby]

Thank you. Yes, another "pill". Oh well, what's one more?

Hey but it is better than surgery or something..

[Cookie]

Hey but it is better than surgery or something..

or death, if it isn't treated. :disbelief:
________
Tavera (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Tavera)

[Bill Cosby]

Hhhmmm..... That sounds like a strong motivator...

[Surfrider]

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1487/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1487R-65364.jpg

Honey, three more kidney transplants and the Wilmette is ours!

http://www.dougnewby.com/images/body/neighborhoods/munger_place_and_swiss_avenue/swiss/5439_swiss_1.jpg

[Smurf-Herder]

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1487/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1487R-65364.jpg

Honey, three more kidney transplants and the Wilmette is ours!

http://www.dougnewby.com/images/body/neighborhoods/munger_place_and_swiss_avenue/swiss/5439_swiss_1.jpg

Are you implying that there aren't strick methods used in placing someone on a kidney transplant waiting list?

[Surfrider]

Are you implying that there aren't strick methods used in placing someone on a kidney transplant waiting list?

No, I am not implying anything. I am stating emphatically that doctors are nothing more than glorified auto mechanics, and should be paid accordingly.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNC/UNC338/auto-mechanic-trade_~u11656198.jpg

[doctordog]

No, I am not implying anything. I am stating emphatically that doctors are nothing more than glorified auto mechanics, and should be paid accordingly.

that is bullshit, some auto mechanics never receive any formal training outside of a 3 month technical school. The life time of dedication to be a doctor is very demanding and many wash out before getting out of med school. Damn, this is the worst opinion I have seen on any board.

[Smurf-Herder]

No, I am not implying anything. I am stating emphatically that doctors are nothing more than glorified auto mechanics, and should be paid accordingly.

Tell that to someone who's life was saved by one.

BTW, how many auto mechanics are paying $84,000 a year for malpractice insurance? And that's what it was back in 2004.

Yet, as CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports, his malpractice insurance has gone through the roof. His premium was $23,000 in 2002. Then it jumped to $47,000. This year, he got a quote for $84,000.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/02/eveningnews/consumer/main610102.shtml

[Moby]

1. I'm all for people making as much as the market will pay.
2. Your stats are misleading because doctors that don't open their own practice don't make that much. The ones that do open their own practice become independent business owners and that's a different equation all together.

[Moby]

However, pricing for doctor services is nuts and needs to change. There is no price list. It's almost impossible if not completely impossible to shop around. Try to get a price quote in writing from 3 doctors and see.

I'm not opposed to doctors making millions a year if they can swing it, the way that they are allowed to shield prices is wrong.

[Cookie]

No, I am not implying anything. I am stating emphatically that doctors are nothing more than glorified auto mechanics, and should be paid accordingly.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNC/UNC338/auto-mechanic-trade_~u11656198.jpg


Ok great. Next time you get a screamin' sore throat with a white stripe down the back of it, or when your urination hurts so bad it feels like someone rammed a red hot poker up your d#*k, drop in on your local auto mechanic at Pep Boys. I'm sure he'll fix you right up.


Now turn your head and cough please, they need to check your oil.


:lmao2: :lmao2:
________
Vaporizer review (http://vaporizers.net/)

[Surfrider]

that is bullshit, some auto mechanics never receive any formal training outside of a 3 month technical school. The life time of dedication to be a doctor is very demanding and many wash out before getting out of med school. Damn, this is the worst opinion I have seen on any board.

Now, let me rethink this..... I go see my doctor with strep-throat, he gives me $20 bucks worth of pills, and tells me to come back next week, (that is two visit charges). Maybe the pills work, maybe they don't, and maybe a third visit.

http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/mag0806/what-your-car-mechanic-wont-tell-you-01-af.jpg

The engine on my car leaks oil. I take it to my mechanic. He replaces a seal, the work is guaranteed, and I am back on the road in hours.

You are correct, this probably is the worst opinion you have seen on any board! I would like to personally apologize for it. I am sorry for my thoughtless remarks about auto mechanics by comparing their work to that of doctors, who bury their mistakes.

[Smurf-Herder]

http://www.mchumor.com/00images/7481_medical_cartoon.gif

[doctordog]

Now, let me rethink this..... I go see my doctor with strep-throat, he gives me $20 bucks worth of pills, and tells me to come back next week, (that is two visit charges). Maybe the pills work, maybe they don't, and maybe a third visit.

http://media.rd.com/rd/images/rdc/mag0806/what-your-car-mechanic-wont-tell-you-01-af.jpg

The engine on my car leaks oil. I take it to my mechanic. He replaces a seal, the work is guaranteed, and I am back on the road in hours.

You are correct, this probably is the worst opinion you have seen on any board. I would like to personally apologize for it. I apologize for my thoughtless remarks to all auto mechanics for comparing the quality of their work to that of doctors who bury their mistakes.

You missed the whole point, the auto mechanic does not invest 500,000 plus in his education to be a mechanic. An average 8th grader can change an oil seal. The mechanic is not going to kill you if the seal leaks or fails so there is no pressure. His insurance is not as high and he works 1/3 as many hours.

[Cookie]

You missed the whole point, the auto mechanic does not invest 500,000 plus in his education to be a mechanic. An average 8th grader can change an oil seal. The mechanic is not going to kill you if the seal leaks or fails so there is no pressure. His insurance is not as high and he works 1/3 as many hours.


The mechanics don't always get it right either.

We bought a new car in 1996, and upon driving it off the lot to go home, the engine light came on. We had that car back 5 times to fix it, and the thing still stayed on.

Finally, we gave up and just drove it that way. The thing stayed on for the entire time we owned it, which was 9 years, lol.
________
TOYOTA Y ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Y_engine)

[Surfrider]

If I have a tricky procedure coming up, I'm going to ask the doc how many of them he does in a month, or year. I'm not going to care how much money he's paid to do them.

I'm with you. When you come out of the hospital all healthy and fresh, why not start out with a new refrigerator to perk you up? Steal it for only $8,000! If you purchase before labor, day we'll throw in a free butter dish with every sale! That's Surfrider Appliances, San Dimas.

http://auntiekate.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/2009jan27refrigerator.jpg

[Surfrider]

http://www.mchumor.com/00images/7481_medical_cartoon.gif

This round goes to you!

[Cookie]

I'm with you. When you come out of the hospital all healthy and fresh, why not start out with a new refrigerator to perk you up? Steal it for only $8,000! If you purchase before labor, day we'll throw in a free butter dish with every sale! That's Surfrider Appliances, San Dimas.

http://auntiekate.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/2009jan27refrigerator.jpg

In Europe, that's considered a luxury model. LMAO!
________
Vaporgenie Reviews (http://vaporizers.net/vapor-genie)

[Surfrider]

Painting by Henri Matisse
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/m/matisse/harmony_in_red.jpg

The name of this thread is:

Here is a link to how much doctors make, is it too much money for what they do?

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

[Smurf-Herder]

What the fuck is with all these moronic pictures?

What does that painting have anything to do with the topic?

[Cookie]

What the fuck is with all these moronic pictures?

What does that painting have anything to do with the topic?

I was wondering that myself. :D




I am reminded that whenever the government, industry etc. tries to cap salaries for those who run the business, (which is typically BELOW what the market would pay), a shortage of those highly skilled people occurs.

The same goes for medical doctors. There's just too much time and money invested into becoming an M.D., which btw, not just anyone has the appitude for.
________
EXTREME VAPORIZER (http://extremevaporizer.info)

[Bill Cosby]

I was wondering that myself. :D




I am reminded that whenever the government, industry etc. tries to cap salaries for those who run the business, (which is typically BELOW what the market would pay), a shortage of those highly skilled people occurs.

The same goes for medical doctors. There's just too much time and money invested into becoming an M.D., which btw, not just anyone has the appitude for.

Are Cubans & Russians smarter than us?? Do they pay Doctors more than us???

They both have great care for their citizens........... & more doctors to...

go figure....

[Cookie]

Are Cubans & Russians smarter than us?? Do they pay Doctors more than us???

They both have great care for their citizens........... & more doctors to...

go figure....


I do not believe that they are smarter than us for one second. It's likely to be leftist hype for a gov run healthcare system. Cuba, or Russia has better healthcare than the U.S.? What a crock.

Bill? Do you think people in Cuba have so many other options to choose from?
________
GONG BONGS (http://glassbongs.org/)

[Bill Cosby]

I do not believe that they are smarter than us for one second. It's likely to be leftist hype for a gov run healthcare system. Cuba, or Russia has better healthcare than the U.S.? What a crock.

Bill? Do you think people in Cuba have so many other options to choose from?


I said great you said better.......:D

Both terms are subjective & mean what exactly??? NOthing really or everything...

Lets define what is better or great. How bout longevity??? (This is from the C I A) (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html)

Note: we are barely better than ALbania......... One of, if not the poorest place in Europe.... The fourth world nation of Cuba??? They live almost as long we do w/ our great care & about 15 times the price??? Am I getting my moneies worth here??? I don't think so...

Are you a good shopper??? YOu like to pay top dollar & get the 50th quality?? Not me... :thumbsup:

1 Macau
84.36

2009 est.
2 Andorra
82.51

2009 est.
3 Japan
82.12

2009 est.
4 Singapore
81.98

2009 est.
5 San Marino
81.97

2009 est.
6 Hong Kong
81.86

2009 est.
7 Australia
81.63

2009 est.
8 Canada
81.23

2009 est.
9 France
80.98

2009 est.
10 Sweden
80.86

2009 est.
11 Switzerland
80.85

2009 est.
12 Guernsey
80.77

2009 est.
13 Israel
80.73

2009 est.
14 Iceland
80.67

2009 est.
15 Anguilla
80.65

2009 est.
16 Cayman Islands
80.44

2009 est.
17 Bermuda
80.43

2009 est.
18 New Zealand
80.36

2009 est.
19 Italy
80.20

2009 est.
20 Gibraltar
80.19

2009 est.
21 Monaco
80.09

2009 est.
22 Liechtenstein
80.06

2009 est.
23 Spain
80.05

2009 est.
24 Norway
79.95

2009 est.
25 Jersey
79.75

2009 est.
26 Greece
79.66

2009 est.
27 Austria
79.50

2009 est.
28 Faroe Islands
79.44

2009 est.
29 Malta
79.44

2009 est.
30 Netherlands
79.40

2009 est.
31 Luxembourg
79.33

2009 est.
32 Germany
79.26

2009 est.
33 Belgium
79.22

2009 est.
34 Saint Pierre and Miquelon
79.07

2009 est.
35 Virgin Islands
79.05

2009 est.
36 United Kingdom
79.01

2009 est.
37 Finland
78.97

2009 est.
38 Jordan
78.87

2009 est.
39 Isle of Man
78.82

2009 est.
40 Korea, South
78.72

2009 est.
41 European Union
78.67

2009 est.
42 Puerto Rico
78.53

2009 est.
43 Bosnia and Herzegovina
78.50

2009 est.
44 Saint Helena
78.44

2009 est.
45 Cyprus
78.33

2009 est.
46 Denmark
78.30

2009 est.
47 Ireland
78.24

2009 est.
48 Portugal
78.21

2009 est.
49 Wallis and Futuna
78.20

2009 est.
50 United States
78.11

2009 est.
51 Albania
77.96

2009 est.
52 Taiwan
77.96

2009 est.
53 Kuwait
77.71

2009 est.
54 Costa Rica
77.58

2009 est.
55 Cuba
77.45

2009 est.

[Bill Cosby]

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/276540-poster594x420mm_eng.jpg

[Cookie]

Have you considered they live longer because they lead a healthier lifestyle than we do in the U.S.?

Eating a healthier diet, in most cases is cultural, excercising more because they walk everywhere, esp. in urban settings and other factors.

We are a nation of convenience and an abundance of choices....we like fattening foods and lots of it fast as can be. You won't find other countries much like us because we are unique and free == free to choose unhealthy food if we want to.

You just cannot make a case that our healthcare is worse than other countries, because the variables used in the study are not equivalent when making a comparison to the U.S.



Goodnight Bill. See ya tomorrow!~
________
Ipad guides (http://ipadguides.info)

[Bill Cosby]

Have you considered they live longer because they lead a healthier lifestyle than we do in the U.S.?

Eating a healthier diet, in most cases is cultural, excercising more because they walk everywhere, esp. in urban settings and other factors.

We are a nation of convenience and an abundance of choices....we like fattening foods and lots of it fast as can be. You won't find other countries much like us because we are unique and free == free to choose unhealthy food if we want to.

You just cannot make a case that our healthcare is worse than other countries, because the variables used in the study are not equivalent when making a comparison to the U.S.



Goodnight Bill. See ya tomorrow!~

sweet dreams.........:hi: bye bye...

Sure those are all valid. None the less I am paying top dollar here & not getting my monies worth IMO...

I am paying top dollar & 47 million of my neighbors got nothing. If they get sick I pay a premium on top of the highest rate............>>>> In their ER..

Look @ those countries there...... They all eat better & that is the only reason??? Come on, they have other things in common as well....... Healthcare for their citizens....... :talktothehand: But wait that can't be a real reason cause it conflicts..

When I have been up in the socialist bastion of Kanada they seem to be eating the same crap we do w/ maybe hitting those fried fish & chips a bit more........ They are 8th & we still have more dr's than they do???

Even Puerto Rico is higher than the USA.. Jordon???

[kres24GT]

It amazes me that anyone would be for government telling people how much they can charge for their goods and services. It really goes to show how powerful tool wealth envy is and how successful class warfare has been in dividing and distracting the sheep. No one here would ever want the government to tell them their is a limit to how much they can earn or charge for their goods and services, but affording the same respect to others... forget about it. It is very eye opening about Americans and their absolute hatred of freedom and how easily they are led by their shepherds.

[Bill Cosby]

It amazes me that anyone would be for government telling people how much they can charge for their goods and services. .

Yea I know..... & I feel the same about ppl that have no problem w/ some fucking corporations telling them how much they are gonna have to pay to get better...

So I guess we are on the same page........:thumbsup:

[kres24GT]

Yea I know..... & I feel the same about ppl that have no problem w/ some fucking corporations telling them how much they are gonna have to pay to get better...

So I guess we are on the same page........:thumbsup:


If you think epopel are entitled to live as long as possible and it is the governments job to ensure this then we need to do the following:

1. Socialize health care, government employed doctors and provided services only. Forcing private citizens t provide care because the government says that people are entitled to it, no thanks. If people are entitled to it, the government needs to provide this service.

2. Force people to eat right and exercise. If it is the job of government to ensure our health and that we live a slng as humanly possible, this has to happen.

3. Outlaw any activity deemed as "dangerous". Rock climbing, sky diving, contact sports, etc.

If it is the role of government to make sure we all live long prosperous lives, they need to enact laws that do that, not just cry about corporations making money for services the provide while gladly taking their campaign contribution and lobby dollars.



Crying about how much others make is pointless, it's just wealth envy and class warfare and and accomplishes nothing other than dividing people.

[Bill Cosby]

If you think epopel are entitled to live as long as possible and it is the governments job to ensure this then we need to do the following:

1. Socialize health care, government employed doctors and provided services only. Forcing private citizens t provide care because the government says that people are entitled to it, no thanks. If people are entitled to it, the government needs to provide this service.

2. Force people to eat right and exercise. If it is the job of government to ensure our health and that we live a slng as humanly possible, this has to happen.

3. Outlaw any activity deemed as "dangerous". Rock climbing, sky diving, contact sports, etc.

If it is the role of government to make sure we all live long prosperous lives, they need to enact laws that do that, not just cry about corporations making money for services the provide while gladly taking their campaign contribution and lobby dollars.



Crying about how much others make is pointless, it's just wealth envy and class warfare and and accomplishes nothing other than dividing people.

Sorry I don't think it has to be all one way or the other.....

Some ppl want their own doctor. That is fine w/ me......... Just like some want their kids to go to private school... That is their affair...

As far as the eating thing........ I think encouraging & educating & the same for drugs & alc, gambling etc............ Help not punish.. SOme may not be able to be helped but I think the sooner we start the fewer lost causes there will be......

I agree the rock climbing & all that is a problem. "Let those that ride decide...........>>>> But if I gotta pick up the bills I am gonna have some say in it..

What would you suggest other than advocating just say no to rock climbing, dirt bikes etc........

Pay some additional tax or require some kinda insurance to protect us from their negligence or accident..??

[kres24GT]

Sorry I don't think it has to be one way or the other.....

Some ppl & want their own doctor. That is fine w/ me......... Just like some want their kids to go to private school... That is their affair...

As far as the eating thing........ I think encouraging & educating & the same for drugs & alc, gambling etc............ Help not punish.. SOme may not be able to be helped but I think the sooner we start the fewer lost causes there will be......

I agree the rock climbing & all that is a problem. "Let those that ride decide...........>>>> But if I gotta pick up the bills I am gonna have some say in it..

What would you suggest other than advocating just say no to rock climbing, dirt bikes etc........

Pay some additional tax or require some kinda insurance to protect us from their negligence or accident..??


Forcing private citizens to provide their services for the government at government set rates is just not acceptable, it should not be acceptable to anyone. If government needs to ensure everyone has that service, they should provide it with their employees.


You flat out force these things, all non healthy food is illegal. Rock climbing, illegal. If you break the law, you go to jail. The governmetn has the responsibility to make sure we all live as long as possible, even if it means taking freedom away.

[Bill Cosby]

Forcing private citizens to provide their services for the government at government set rates is just not acceptable, it should not be acceptable to anyone. If government needs to ensure everyone has that service, they should provide it with their employees.


You flat out force these things, all non healthy food is illegal. Rock climbing, illegal. If you break the law, you go to jail. The governmetn has the responsibility to make sure we all live as long as possible, even if it means taking freedom away.

Your last sentence is nutty & I am not going to attempt to reply to that any more......... I guess next you will suggest we be in cages for our own protection when not in jail??? :banghead:

They have a choice, it is not force so just stop.... It is not only acceptable it is done every day. As I have pointed out numerous times.....

It is done w/ dr's in the rest of the industrialized world & they live longer...... Just a coincidence though I guess......lol

The police, fire fighters politicians etc. They don't like the fucking pay they can do something else. That applies to me, you & dr's... They are no sacred class here........

They perform a service & should be paid for it just like the rest of society........

[kres24GT]

Your last sentence is nutty & I am not going to attempt to reply to that any more......... I guess next you will suggest we be in cages for our own protection when not in jail??? :banghead:

They have a choice, it is not force so just stop.... It is not only acceptable it is done every day. As I have pointed out numerous times.....

It is done w/ dr's in the rest of the industrialized world & they live longer...... Just a coincidence though I guess......lol

The police, fire fighters politicians etc. They don't like the fucking pay they can do something else. That applies to me, you & dr's... They are no sacred class here........

They perform a service & should be paid for it just like the rest of society........


I agree it is a nutjob sentence, that is the point. The idea government has the authority to take freedom from peopel in order to be the bringers of life to everyone is insane.

Police, fire fighters are government employees. As I said, you want doctors to provide services at rates government determine, make them government employees.

You can have the best Dr. in the world who make nothing and are forced to provide their services for free, it doesn't mean you will live longer. Doctors can't make you eat right, can't make you get up off your ass.

[doctordog]

I agree it is a nutjob sentence, that is the point. The idea government has the authority to take freedom from peopel in order to be the bringers of life to everyone is insane.

Police, fire fighters are government employees. As I said, you want doctors to provide services at rates government determine, make them government employees.

You can have the best Dr. in the world who make nothing and are forced to provide their services for free, it doesn't mean you will live longer. Doctors can't make you eat right, can't make you get up off your ass.

That is right! I ride a motorcycle (over 600 miles this weekend) all without a helmet. I may buy it one day but at least I will have enjoyed life to the fullest up to that point. We already have enough restrictions to deal with, why make us prisoners in our own homes?

[Bill Cosby]

I agree it is a nutjob sentence, that is the point. The idea government has the authority to take freedom from peopel in order to be the bringers of life to everyone is insane.

Police, fire fighters are government employees. As I said, you want doctors to provide services at rates government determine, make them government employees.

You can have the best Dr. in the world who make nothing and are forced to provide their services for free, it doesn't mean you will live longer. Doctors can't make you eat right, can't make you get up off your ass.

I agree it is a nutjob sentence, that is the point.

Perhaps it may occur to you that you may be better off making a point instead of making nutty posts. Just a thought... :thumbsup:

As I said, you want doctors to provide services at rates government determine, make them government employees.

I don't care who or what kinda employee they are.. It makes no damn difference to me or 47 million other Americans........

My pay & everyone elses is set just like theirs. They work for agreed upon rates just like we do. They don't like it then don't work for it just like the rest of us... What part of that don't you get????

They are no more forced then anyone else.......

I have said all I have to say to you on the matter now go eat healthy live long & prosper......:p

[Bill Cosby]

That is right! I ride a motorcycle (over 600 miles this weekend) all without a helmet. I may buy it one day but at least I will have enjoyed life to the fullest up to that point. We already have enough restrictions to deal with, why make us prisoners in our own homes?

I thought this guy was just acting nuts........ :(

He wants to out law bike rides, potato chips & beer next I guess........

Do jail time for food crimes.... :lmao2:

Lock your ass up for your own good............. Maybe the wife & kids won't miss the paycheck not coming in for a while & they sit @ home eating carrots & fantasize about committing food crimes...

[doctordog]

I thought this guy was just acting nuts........ :(

He wants to out law bike rides, potato chips & beer next I guess........

Do jail time for food crimes.... :lmao2:

Lock your ass up for your own good............. Maybe the wife & kids won't miss the paycheck not coming in for a while & they sit @ home eating carrots & fantasize about committing food crimes...

he should have been born a domestic pet:lmao2:

[Bill Cosby]

LOL.........

He is alright I think he just needs to change his approach on some of these things. :dunno:

[kres24GT]

Perhaps it may occur to you that you may be better off making a point instead of making nutty posts. Just a thought... :thumbsup:


I don't care who or what kinda employee they are.. It makes no damn difference to me or 47 million other Americans........

My pay & everyone elses is set just like theirs. They work for agreed upon rates just like we do. They don't like it then don't work for it just like the rest of us... What part of that don't you get????

They are no more forced then anyone else.......

I have said all I have to say to you on the matter now go eat healthy live long & prosper......:p


Combat nuttiness with nuttiness. Your pay is set by the government and you are not a government employee? You work for a wage other than what you negotiated yourself? Wow. This doesn't apply to many people. Most of us negotiate our own wage and charge for our goods and services based on what we are willing to accept for them. We don't allow the government to come and tell us what we can work for.

A scary attitude that you don't give a fuck as long as you get yours. As long as you get yours for what you feel is fair, fuck everyone else. Fuck freedom , give you yours.

[doctordog]

LOL.........

He is alright I think he just needs to change his approach on some of these things. :dunno:

maybe Eric has an extra cage for him and will teach him to eat only after being pointed at!:lmao2:

[Bill Cosby]

Combat nuttiness with nuttiness. Your pay is set by the government and you are not a government employee? You work for a wage other than what you negotiated yourself? Wow. This doesn't apply to many people. Most of us negotiate our own wage and charge for our goods and services based on what we are willing to accept for them. We don't allow the government to come and tell us what we can work for.

A scary attitude that you don't give a fuck as long as you get yours. As long as you get yours for what you feel is fair, fuck everyone else. Fuck freedom , give you yours.

Well I guess when I am in the mood for nuttieness I will indulge... :D

Ever how you arrive @ it you agree to work for some compensation. COrrect???

It is up to you to accept or reject that... Correct???

If you work for Kaiser Pemanente or the post office or sell used cars the game is the same... Correct???

Doctors do that now & will under a new system... They can join or not... Just like some do private practice & other do the HMO...... They do what suits them & they can accept or reject offers made to them.. Correct???





A scary attitude that you don't give a fuck as long as you get yours. As long as you get yours for what you feel is fair, fuck everyone else. Fuck freedom , give you yours.


Not sure were that is coming from my friend. I have care for myself & family... I am advocating not for myself here but the 47 million Americans w/out care........... How that makes me a selfish "don't give a fuck" is beyond me... :hi:

[kres24GT]

Well I guess when I am in the mood for nuttieness I will indulge... :D

Ever how you arrive @ it you agree to work for some compensation. COrrect???

It is up to you to accept or reject that... Correct???

If you work for Kaiser Pemanente or the post office or sell used cars the game is the same... Correct???

Doctors do that now & will under a new system... They can join or not... Just like some do private practice & other do the HMO...... They do what suits them & they can accept or reject offers made to them.. Correct???








Not sure were that is coming from my friend. I have care for myself & family... I am advocating not for myself here but the 47 million Americans w/out care........... How that makes me a selfish "don't give a fuck" is beyond me... :hi:


The government has no place stepping and telling someone what they can earn unless they are government employees. This is simple, and it s shameful we as a country would ever allow otherwise.

[Bill Cosby]

The government has no place stepping and telling someone what they can earn unless they are government employees. This is simple, and it s shameful we as a country would ever allow otherwise.

So I guess you are color blind & can't see those things I highlighted in red??? :hi:

& that is true. They will not tell them what they can earn. They will tell them what they will pay & the doctor can decide what he/she wants to do...


If on your job tomorrow they tell you we are now going to pay you $XXX.00.. You can accept it or take a fucking hike... :D

Many American face this every day. & many more are all the time in the present economy. SOrry that is how it is........

Take the salary or pack your shit & call you wife from you cell phone & tell her you no longer have heath insurance... :D

Welcome to the other America.... :thumbsup:

[Citizen]

The government has no place stepping and telling someone what they can earn unless they are government employees. This is simple, and it s shameful we as a country would ever allow otherwise.

+1

You'd think these people would at the very least be more concerned with how much lawyers make. If ANYBODY wants anybody's salary controlled I say put their money their money where their mouth is. Tell everyone here what YOU do and how much YOU make so WE can decide if that's too much. No? Too afraid? I'm assuming I'm going to hear how my question doesn't pertain to doctor's salaries. Oh yeah? So if not doctor's why not lawyers or CEOs or high-level employees or mid-level employees... this IS thought process and has a line drawn straight to Communism. YES I SAID THE 'C' WORD!

I don't think anybody wants a pure capitalist system but I want to start by at least keeping it on life support for crying out loud!

[Bill Cosby]

+1

You'd think these people would at the very least be more concerned with how much lawyers make. If ANYBODY wants anybody's salary controlled I say put their money their money where their mouth is. Tell everyone here what YOU do and how much YOU make so WE can decide if that's too much. No? Too afraid? I'm assuming I'm going to hear how my question doesn't pertain to doctor's salaries. Oh yeah? So if not doctor's why not lawyers or CEOs or high-level employees or mid-level employees... this IS thought process and has a line drawn straight to Communism. YES I SAID THE 'C' WORD!

I don't think anybody wants a pure capitalist system but I want to start by at least keeping it on life support for crying out loud!

Nice attempt...

As I stated.. You can ask for whatever you want. This is what we will pay, take it or leave it......... Now how fucking capitalistic does that sound to you???

[Citizen]

Nice attempt...

As I stated.. You can ask for whatever you want. This is what we will pay, take it or leave it......... Now how fucking capitalistic does that sound to you???

Who is we?

[kres24GT]

So I guess you are color blind & can't see those things I highlighted in red??? :hi:

& that is true. They will not tell them what they can earn. They will tell them what they will pay & the doctor can decide what he/she wants to do...


If on your job tomorrow they tell you we are now going to pay you $XXX.00.. You can accept it or take a fucking hike... :D

Many American face this every day. & many more are all the time in the present economy. SOrry that is how it is........

Take the salary or pack your shit & call you wife from you cell phone & tell her you no longer have heath insurance... :D

Welcome to the other America.... :thumbsup:


The government does not tell me what I work for. Sorry, but this is not the case. It is not the case for most non-government employees.

[Bill Cosby]

Who is we?

The citzens of the usa....

[Bill Cosby]

The government does not tell me what I work for. Sorry, but this is not the case. It is not the case for most non-government employees.

no your emplyer tell you what they will pay. Just as I said.. Ask for whatever you want this is what I will pay....

you wanna come & cut my lawn this is what I will pay.... I don't care what your rate is that is what I will pay take it or leave....... :thumbsup:

[Citizen]

The citzens of the usa....

Doctor's aren't citizens?

[kres24GT]

no your emplyer tell you what they will pay. Just as I said.. Ask for whatever you want this is what I will pay....

you wanna come & cut my lawn this is what I will pay.... I don't care what your rate is that is what I will pay take it or leave....... :thumbsup:


Yep, and that is between you and I, not government.

[Bill Cosby]

Yep, and that is between you and I, not government.

If it is between me & you. You and IBM or you & the government...>>> Your options none the less are the same, take it or leave it... :thumbsup:

:D

[kres24GT]

If it is between me & you. You and IBM or you & the government...>>> Your options none the less are the same, take it or leave it... :thumbsup:

:D


Scary stuff. That line of thinking gives governmetn 100% control of our lives.

[Bill Cosby]

Well I know some of you ppl are afraid of the government & shadows but I cross my heart I will not let them hurt you...Promise....:)

They won't make you eat vegetables or force you to see some dr you don't wanna see...... You can have the same option you offer those 47 million neighbors- rot on the fuckin street........:thumbsup:

Have a wonderful afternoon.....:)

[Citizen]

The scariest thing you can hear in a mostly free market society is, "Don't worry we're the government we're here to help." No thanks.

[kres24GT]

Well I know some of you ppl are afraid of the government & shadows but I cross my heart I will not let them hurt you...Promise....:)

They won't make you eat vegetables or force you to see some dr you don't wanna see...... You can have the same option you offer those 47 million neighbors- rot on the fuckin street........:thumbsup:

Have a wonderful afternoon.....:)


See,t hat is my problem, the answer is always government and fascism. You and those 47 million could start your own program in a free market, if people really wanted to be insured cheaply and without profit, you guys could do that, but instead your answer is to just let government do it, corrupt, inefficient government, and force others to help cover your costs. No community, no work, just fascism.

[Citizen]

Doctor's aren't citizens?

Just curious what your response would be to this.

[Bill Cosby]

Just curious what your response would be to this.

dr are citzens just like the rest of us....

How is that???

[Citizen]

dr are citzens just like the rest of us....

How is that???

You don't think doctors are citizens of this county?

[Bill Cosby]

You don't think doctors are citizens of this county?

You wanna play games??? Read what I wrote. I said they are just like us... Does that sound like they are not citizens of this country to you???

Now come on I have taken your bait.... Lets go .:)

[Citizen]

You wanna play games??? Read what I wrote. I said they are just like us... Does that sound like they are not citizens of this country to you???

Now come on I have taken your bait.... Lets go .:)

Wasn't playing games. Just wondering why doctors would want their own salary to be capped. Since we've established that 'we' mean 'citizens' and doctors are citizens as well.

[Bill Cosby]

Wasn't playing games. Just wondering why doctors would want their own salary to be capped. Since we've established that 'we' mean 'citizens' and doctors are citizens as well.

Well I wonder why steel workers would want theirs capped to??? I want $25 an hour & Us Steel pays $20........ ???? :banghead: Why don't those ppl people just pay me what I want??? I think their capitalist reply would be you want the $20 get to work, if not get the fuck off the property...

What about dr in the Army??? What about Dr in the prison system???

As I stated already & will again for you......... They are not capped..... You/they can ask for what you like........

This is what the prison system will pay you for your services.

This is what Kaiser will pay you for your services.

This is what the navy will pay you for your services.

Th is is what the city of San Fransisco will pay you for your services....... Seems simple enough take it or leave it............

You can make more somewhere else be my guest..........

[Citizen]

Its really difficult to convey tone of voice through the internet. but I'll try to do my best to respond with an even tone of voice.

Well I wonder why steel workers would want theirs capped to??? I want $25 an hour & Us Steel pays $20........ ???? :banghead: Why don't those ppl people just pay me what I want??? I think their capitalist reply would be you want the $20 get to work, if not get the fuck off the property...

Comparing completely different industries as an example/comparison is generally not a persuasive way to prove a point. The other side will always point out how one relates to the issue and the other does not. For example you don't need 9 + years & hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education to get into the steel industry.

Don't you think people don't know what kind of salaries are associated with particular careers they head out for? Is it a big secret doctors get paid a lot and steel workers don't? That people heading for these careers have no clue or lied to about the potential salaries of their professions? A good education should be more valued and respected in our society. Persons with these high levels of academic achievements should be rewarded not punished.


What about dr in the Army??? What about Dr in the prison system???

Now this is different. Now you are talking about something the public has to pay for, not what individuals choose to pay for. Totally different discussion. Nobody is going to go to prison just so they can get free health care and nobody is going to join the army because of free health care. What would be a good start in cutting down some of these prison health care costs would be to decriminalize non-violent drug offenders.


As I stated already & will again for you......... They are not capped..... You/they can ask for what you like........

This is what the prison system will pay you for your services.

This is what Kaiser will pay you for your services.

This is what the navy will pay you for your services.

Th is is what the city of San Fransisco will pay you for your services....... Seems simple enough take it or leave it............

You can make more somewhere else be my guest..........

Just throwing out some random ideas...

Control the border problem...
Tax credits and health savings accounts for individuals...
More competition among private health insurance companies...

How can you blame this health care crisis on any type of free market system where there is very little any competition to begin with?... that we're already giving millions free health care... that the government isn't already involved in many of the facets of our health care system?

[Bill Cosby]

Its really difficult to convey tone of voice through the internet. but I'll try to do my best to respond with an even tone of voice.



Comparing completely different industries as an example/comparison is generally not a persuasive way to prove a point. The other side will always point out how one relates to the issue and the other does not. For example you don't need 9 + years & hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of education to get into the steel industry.

Don't you think people don't know what kind of salaries are associated with particular careers they head out for? Is it a big secret doctors get paid a lot and steel workers don't? That people heading for these careers have no clue or lied to about the potential salaries of their professions? A good education should be more valued and respected in our society. Persons with these high levels of academic achievements should be rewarded not punished.



Now this is different. Now you are talking about something the public has to pay for, not what individuals choose to pay for. Totally different discussion. Nobody is going to go to prison just so they can get free health care and nobody is going to join the army because of free health care. What would be a good start in cutting down some of these prison health care costs would be to decriminalize non-violent drug offenders.



Just throwing out some random ideas...

Control the border problem...
Tax credits and health savings accounts for individuals...
More competition among private health insurance companies...

How can you blame this health care crisis on any type of free market system where there is very little any competition to begin with?... that we're already giving millions free health care... that the government isn't already involved in many of the facets of our health care system?

ThnX for the even tone..........

I have been talking about this all day so I am getting a bit tired of it...

I compared different industries but the point is the same.. They are not capped- go work somewhere else...

I stated the military prison system & city employees were doctors agree to work for a certain wage... They agreed to work for this amount, just like the airline pilot does & everyone else..

I totally agree to doctors getting paid a lot. I do not agree that they are a special class deserving whatever they want........... If they are able to make more they should do so. If they agree to work for the city, county, state or fed that is their business not yours...

Kaiser, the city, county, state or fed will offer a salary for which they can take or leave... They can do the same in private practice, private or public hospital...

A hospital, a city, county state etc saying I will pay this or that does not make a cap. It is an offer. take it or leave it....

If the gov says I got 47 million ppl here & I will pay XXX for you to fix them then each doctor will decide........ Some will take it some will not.. & we will all live happily every after......

Enjoy your day... :thumbsup:

[Citizen]

ThnX for the even tone..........

I have been talking about this all day so I am getting a bit tired of it...

Well that's why you gotta be steadfast in your political beliefs. Politics is a never ending battle.

I compared different industries but the point is the same.. They are not capped- go work somewhere else...

What about other industries that don't cap their employees salaries? Do you believe all industries should have capped salaries?

I stated the military prison system & city employees were doctors agree to work for a certain wage...
They agreed to work for this amount, just like the airline pilot does & everyone else..

Of course who doesn't work who doesn't agree to a certain wage?

I totally agree to doctors getting paid a lot. I do not agree that they are a special class deserving whatever they want........... If they are able to make more they should do so. If they agree to work for the city, county, state or fed that is their business not yours...

Special class? Deserving whatever they want? Are most doctor billionaires? lol With what they pay in taxes the government should be kissing their asses, not capping their salary. If they agree to work for the state and the state pays them then it should be our business. If I pay for something I can't control it at all?

Kaiser, the city, county, state or fed will offer a salary for which they can take or leave... They can do the same in private practice, private or public hospital...

They can offer a salary in private practice but that doesn't mean it won't be met with competition from other establishments. Lawyers can't choose between firms? What makes them so special over doctors?

A hospital, a city, county state etc saying I will pay this or that does not make a cap. It is an offer. take it or leave it....

Much Fewer people will take it then. If I'm a well educated doctor over in another country where's the incentive to apply my knowledge and skill in America? At the very least he/she is going to think twice about doing it.

If the gov says I got 47 million ppl here & I will pay XXX for you to fix them then each doctor will decide........ Some will take it some will not.. & we will all live happily every after......

Enjoy your day... :thumbsup:

That 47 million won't grow? If the government say that I will pay 'XXX' I will undoubtedly times that amount by 5 or 10. It will cost more money than it saves. In fact, I would argue that the burden is on advocates to show an example where government intervention (outside of its limited role of protecting private property) saved more money than it costs. People refuse to believe our current system (yes its broken) can get worse only by doing nothing. Adding additional government intervention will make it worse than doing nothing.

[Surfrider]

Tell that to someone who's life was saved by one.
No, tell that to someone who lost a family member or friend.

http://neoavatara.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/casket550pix.jpg

[Surfrider]

This thread is:

Here is a link to how much doctors make,
is it too much money for what they do?

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

[Surfrider]

The scariest thing you can hear in a mostly free market society is, "Don't worry we're the government we're here to help." No thanks.

And the private sector always gets things done right? Ask my neighbor who paid $50,000 for a Ford pick-up that has been in the shop 17 times in the last 12 months!

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/04/23/084998.3-lg.jpg

[Citizen]

And the private sector always gets things done right? Ask my neighbor who paid $50,000 for a Ford pick-up that has been in the shop 17 times in the last 12 months!


From wikipedia
The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations in the United States, first enacted by Congress in 1975,[1] are federal regulations intended to improve the average fuel economy of cars and light trucks (trucks, vans and sport utility vehicles) sold in the US in the wake of the 1973 Arab Oil Embargo. Historically, it is the sales-weighted harmonic mean fuel economy, expressed in miles per gallon (mpg), of a manufacturer's fleet of current model year passenger cars or light trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 8,500 pounds (3,856 kg) or less, manufactured for sale in the United States.

The public perception is that the UAW is to be blamed for the automotive industry crisis of 2008-2009. They point to union workers' high wages and allegedly overly generous benefits compared to those working at non-union Japanese auto plants in the U.S. as one of the primary reasons for the poor competitiveness of the Big Three. In a November 18, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that, counting benefits, each UAW worker receives $74 per hour while Toyota workers receive about $44 per hour.[13] The UAW asserts that most of this labor cost disparity comes from legacy pension and healthcare benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none. According to the 2007 GM Annual Report, typical autoworkers earn a base wage of approximately $28 per hour. Following the 2007 National Agreement, the base starting wage was lowered to about $15 per hour.[14] A second-tier wage of $14.50 an hour, which applies only to newly-hired workers, is still higher than the average wage in nonunion auto companies in the Deep South.[15]

[Surfrider]

From wikipedia

http://exiledonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/foxnews_lights_upflv.jpg

What have we got here, Fox News?

There are some real Bozos in DCJ, but none of them would fall for your cheap ploy. The subject is the reliability of Government verses the private sector, and you post all this irrelevant stuff. You've been outed! Another Republican distraction!

[Citizen]

What kind of place is this? Sorry will not respond. Which is still a response but screw it.

[Citizen]

Wow you can post pictures on here!

[Bill Cosby]

Well that's why you gotta be steadfast in your political beliefs. Politics is a never ending battle.


.

So as you were sitting on the side lines all day being entertained were you thinking I was not being very steadfast???:hi:

I stated my views numerous times here.. You are more than welcome to adamantly disagree all you like- in whole or part...

I am not sure were you came from & you are very welcome here but this place is going to be a little different experience for you I imagine... So don't get frustrated... :thumbsup:

What kind of place is this?

There are some pretty sharp minds on all sides of the debate as you will see, left, right & in between... :D As a Librarian you can/will bring a unique & hopefully coherent perspective... A perspective that has perhaps not been as well represented & articulated as it could/should..........

Also I may add that while some view this as some kinda war most of us are just here to have fun & be entertained & enjoy stimulating conversations w/ folks of like & differing views...

:D

[Tommy]

what I know from personal experiences

a few months ago i cut my leg open cutting the ropes on the pool cover

it was bleeding very badly

The ER called a Plastic surgen to stich me up cause I take blood thiners and i had cut a blood vesal

it took him 10 mins to stitch me up and he billed insurance.... get ready... a measly 2700.00

2700.00 for 10 mins .. and it really wasnt 10 mins. it was more like 7 minutes

when i bring one of my kids to the doctor.
The doctor is in the room for maybe 10 minutes and he gets 180.00 for that...
180 dollars every ten minutes is a lot

I think they charge to much

[Surfrider]

If you really want to get really involved in ObamaCare?, Check this out!


DC Junkies

On Thursday, an astounding 280,000 Organizing for America supporters gathered online to huddle with the President at our National Health Care Forum. With Congress about to return to Washington to make historic decisions on health insurance reform, the President chose this critical moment to speak directly to the OFA community. He reminded us of how far we've come and what we can accomplish together:
Remember one thing: Nothing is more powerful than millions of voices calling for change. That's how we won this election. You know this, and that's why since OFA launched its health reform campaign in June you've hosted 11,000 events in more than 2,500 towns in every single state and every single congressional district...I am absolutely confident that we can get this done, but I want everybody to remember, this has never been easy....We are not going to give up now. We are going to get this done.
Now it's up to us to take the next step. This week, we need to make sure every member of Congress heads back to Washington hearing overwhelming support for change. Lies and fear must not have the last word about the health reform America so desperately needs. So here's what you can do: Find and attend a "Let's Get It Done: Health Insurance Reform Now" event near you.

There are thousands of events, in every part of the country. In some places, we're rallying near local congressional offices to deliver signatures of support from voters. In others we're meeting in high-traffic areas to offer passers-by an easy way to get the facts and call Congress, thanking those fighting for reform and urging others to stand with their constituents. Wherever you live, you can find a powerful way to show Congress, the media, and our neighbors that the American people have one clear message about health reform: Let's get it done.

Thursday, the President made the stakes of reform crystal clear. He talked about how, with health care costs rising three times faster than wages, the cost of inaction is simply too high.

He explained how reform will guarantee competition and choice. He described the Insurance Guarantees that will protect every American from discrimination against pre-existing conditions, exorbitant charges, and arbitrary denials or reductions in coverage just when we need it most.

And he made plain his stance on the public option: "So let me just be clear: I continue to support a public option, I think it is important, and I think it will help drive down costs and give consumers choices."

But even the best plan only matters if it passes, and that's where we all have a critical role to play. As the President said:
And that's why what all of you do is so important, because people trust you -- your neighbors, your friends, fellow community members -- they trust you. They know you. And if you are presenting the facts clearly and fairly, I'm absolutely confident that we're going to win this debate. But we're going to have a lot of work to do and I'm grateful that you're willing to do it. Let's go get 'em.
Answer the President's call -- find and attend an event near you:

http://my.barackobama.com/GetItDone

Jeremy

Jeremy Bird
Deputy Director

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wuDEBtBzkng/SmMni3bo9lI/AAAAAAAAABg/IASSx0Sst1A/s320/Organizing_for_America_logo.jpg

[Bill Cosby]

what I know from personal experiences

a few months ago i cut my leg open cutting the ropes on the pool cover

it was bleeding very badly

The ER called a Plastic surgen to stich me up cause I take blood thiners and i had cut a blood vesal

it took him 10 mins to stitch me up and he billed insurance.... get ready... a measly 2700.00

2700.00 for 10 mins .. and it really wasnt 10 mins. it was more like 7 minutes

when i bring one of my kids to the doctor.
The doctor is in the room for maybe 10 minutes and he gets 180.00 for that...
180 dollars every ten minutes is a lot

I think they charge to much

I think so to but what can you do???

Freakin auto mechanics charge about $100 an hour for labor..........

[Cookie]

what I know from personal experiences

a few months ago i cut my leg open cutting the ropes on the pool cover

it was bleeding very badly

The ER called a Plastic surgen to stich me up cause I take blood thiners and i had cut a blood vesal

it took him 10 mins to stitch me up and he billed insurance.... get ready... a measly 2700.00

2700.00 for 10 mins .. and it really wasnt 10 mins. it was more like 7 minutes

when i bring one of my kids to the doctor.
The doctor is in the room for maybe 10 minutes and he gets 180.00 for that...
180 dollars every ten minutes is a lot

I think they charge to much

Don't forget when the doc charges you a fee, he has to cover not only a portion of his/her salary and benefits, but those of the staff members, overhead for the facility, insurance, equipment, supplies, etc.

It sounds like alot of money to pay for 10 minutes, but it is very expensive running a hospital or clinic.
________
Om602 Engine (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM602_engine)

[Bill Cosby]

I think it was cheaper back in the day before the AMA gave us all this help...

[doctordog]

Don't forget when the doc charges you a fee, he has to cover not only a portion of his/her salary and benefits, but those of the staff members, overhead for the facility, insurance, equipment, supplies, etc.

It sounds like alot of money to pay for 10 minutes, but it is very expensive running a hospital or clinic.

Not to mention the ridiculous education expenses our colleges charge our kids. Some of them are 500,000 in debt when they get out of medical school. I think education charges and fees are way more out of whack than insurance premiums especially when you talk to your kid and he is in his apartment or dorm because an educator was a no show to class that requires $600 worth of books.:mad:

[Cookie]

I think it was cheaper back in the day before the AMA gave us all this help...

Back in the day, everything was cheaper. When I first went to college in the 70's, I could buy a weeks' worth of groceries for $17, and they filled two paper bags. (I was cooking for my boyfriend and friends sometimes too).
________
RB50 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_RB50)

[Cookie]

Not to mention the ridiculous education expenses our colleges charge our kids. Some of them are 500,000 in debt when they get out of medical school. I think education charges and fees are way more out of whack than insurance premiums especially when you talk to your kid and he is in his apartment or dorm because an educator was a no show to class that requires $600 worth of books.:mad:

College costs are out of control!!

Wayers, if each institution would cull out the tenured dead wood from the VP, Asst. VP, Asst. Dean positions, do you know how much we could save in tax dollars? It would be enough to bring tuition down to reasonable levels, I bet ya.

There are so many do-nothings ensconced in those learned walls, it's crazy.
________
HERBALAIRE VAPORIZER (http://vaporizers.net/herbalaire-vaporizer)

[doctordog]

College costs are out of control!!

Wayers, if each institution would cull out the tenured dead wood from the VP, Asst. VP, Asst. Dean positions, do you know how much we could save in tax dollars? It would be enough to bring tuition down to reasonable levels, I bet ya.

There are so many do-nothings ensconced in those learned walls, it's crazy.

I agree, higher education and the politics that go with it is one the biggest financial screwings we face as a nation.

[Surfrider]

I agree, higher education and the politics that go with it is one the biggest financial screwings we face as a nation.

What are "the politics that go with it?"

http://yead.dk/conference/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/question-mark.jpg

[doctordog]

What are "the politics that go with it?"

http://yead.dk/conference/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/question-mark.jpg

Many more times than not it is the higher earning class kids that receive all the scholarships because of donations and contributions to universities. I have a perfect example, my son and his wife. The both had 4.0 averages going into college, his entrance exams scores were better but I had never made a donation, or supported the university in anyway. He did receive one award his last semester in school but other than that I paid for all of it. He is now a successful financial advisor for one of the Big 3 companies.

She received a full academic ride only to graduate and have a job she could have gotten without a degree. Her parents income is 3 times that out my wife and I but they did know the right people and make handsome contributions.

Executive Board appointments along party lines are other forms of politics that are just plain wrong.

[Surfrider]

Many more times than not it is the higher earning class kids that receive all the scholarships because of donations and contributions to universities. I have a perfect example, my son and his wife. The both had 4.0 averages going into college, his entrance exams scores were better but I had never made a donation, or supported the university in anyway. He did receive one award his last semester in school but other than that I paid for all of it. He is now a successful financial advisor for one of the Big 3 companies.

She received a full academic ride only to graduate and have a job she could have gotten without a degree. Her parents income is 3 times that out my wife and I but they did know the right people and make handsome contributions.

Executive Board appointments along party lines are other forms of politics that are just plain wrong.

Thank you for your post. You know we almost had free college education for students with good grades under President Bill Clinton. I know a hard working plumber who makes about 80 a year who almost went broke trying to get two kids through college. Education is imperative, and we must come up with a new system to replace the Clinton program that George Bush scuttled. Hang in there!

[doctordog]

Thank you for your post. You know we almost had free college education for students with good grades under President Bill Clinton. I know a hard working plumber who makes about 80 a year who almost went broke trying to get two kids through college. Education is imperative, and we must come up with a new system to replace the Clinton program that George Bush scuttled. Hang in there!

I don't have anymore to send, but the cost was 5 times what it was when I went so I can't imagine how much it will be for his kids. The state of GA has something called the Hope Foundation or Hope project where if you have been a student for at least two years prior to college you can go to any state school for free, at today's cost it would almost makes sense to move there.

[Bill Cosby]

Back in the day, everything was cheaper. When I first went to college in the 70's, I could buy a weeks' worth of groceries for $17, and they filled two paper bags. (I was cooking for my boyfriend and friends sometimes too).

No I am not talking just the inflation thing. Dr's CEO etc earned less compared to the rest of us..........

Maybe 6 times as much............. Not it is 10 to 50 times as much...

[Cookie]

No I am not talking just the inflation thing. Dr's CEO etc earned less compared to the rest of us..........

Maybe 6 times as much............. Not it is 10 to 50 times as much...


I know what you mean. Greed is at the root of many problems we are facing today.

How much can one person, or their family spend? I mean, is there that much difference, in terms of comfort, in a 12 bedroom house and a 25 bedroom house? Alot of this amassing of wealth doesn't make sense.
________
Silver surfer vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/silver-surfer-vaporizer)

[Surfrider]

The Senate will not pass this bill they have already said so this weekend. They are back tracking and already looking at alternatives such as creating government funded health care cooperatives...This UHC is dead in the water in my opinion...The OBAMA admin learned nothing from the Clinton Admin...we do not want something rammed down our throats...and we do not want the country to be debt for the next 100 years to do it. If the Federal Government did not force people into medicare, at 65, that program might not be so bankrupt...people who have the means to pay for health insurance themselves, would stay with their providers and not deal with the medicaid mess. Those that need it could have government run insurance...those that have their own insurance continue to have it as long as they want it, not as long as they keep their present job.

Here is another example of what desperate Republicans are doing. They offer a scathing attack on ObamaCare, and even take a swipe at President Bill Clinton.

There are no sources or links to back up a purely partisan opinion.

If you want proof look at these final words from Konsor. In his post all the words are screaming in big bold colorful letters.

Right Wing Conspiracy Agent 007...BRINGING DEMOCRATS DOWN ONE AT A TIME!Searching for another Reagan Conservative. Fighting to OUST ALL Congressional Incumbents in 2010...After all this really is their fault! Reagan on God..."I don't know why they ever kicked him out of school in the first place!"

I can tell you straight out is that I am for ObamaCare, health care for all. We are in a tough battle, medical corporations, hospitals, doctors, insurance firms, and pharmaceutical companies have a big war chest set up to kill ObamaCare. We need Democrats and friends to write their Senators in support of ObamaCare. One thing I personally caution about is:

Whenever you read or watch anything, ask yourself who benefits if I believe this?

In my case it is simple, it is ObamaCare, health care for everyone. How powerful is our opposition? This building alone is the headquarters for the organization of doctors,the AMA. How big do you think the medical corporations, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and insurance firms are? How much power do you think they wield with their visible opposition, the Republican Party?

http://www.chicagoarchitecture.info/CAI/Images/NearNorthSide/AmericanMedicalAssociation-003.jpg

Lobbyists, The American Medical Association, AMA, headquarters, Chicago, Illinois

[Bill Cosby]

I know what you mean. Greed is at the root of many problems we are facing today.

How much can one person, or their family spend? I mean, is there that much difference, in terms of comfort, in a 12 bedroom house and a 25 bedroom house? Alot of this amassing of wealth doesn't make sense.

Very good point. I think the average size of houses has increased like 25% in about half as many years.. Many, way to many have zero in the bank & a big house filled w/ big screens & toys..............

[doctordog]

Very good point. I think the average size of houses has increased like 25% in about half as many years.. Many, way to many have zero in the bank & a big house filled w/ big screens & toys..............

HEY! I am not giving up my big screen! Can't afford season tickets anymore.

[Bill Cosby]

HEY! I am not giving up my big screen! Can't afford season tickets anymore.

HHmmm.... Very good point.... I know many folks that have done that.. & not jsut cause the Kings are the worst team & worst franchise in the NBa............

I think we all have had to make adjustments........ I use to go to about 8-10 games a year betweent the Kings & Warriors......... Now I could care less & have other things to worry about........

& yea I still have my 55 w/ surround sound... :thumbsup:

[Citizen]

"Hey, you all have computers and access to the internet. More and more children are starving and you are just sitting there on your lavish expensive computers!!?? I think that's being selfish and greedy. You don't deserve your personal property. I'm going to tax you more."

Yeah, all you greedy fucks.

[doctordog]

HHmmm.... Very good point.... I know many folks that have done that.. & not jsut cause the Kings are the worst team & worst franchise in the NBa............

I think we all have had to make adjustments........ I use to go to about 8-10 games a year betweent the Kings & Warriors......... Now I could care less & have other things to worry about........

& yea I still have my 55 w/ surround sound... :thumbsup:

You got me beat, I just have the 52 sony, surround sound, with NFL Super Fan almost here:thumbsup:

I am going to see the Rams/Colts 10/25