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Bill
05-28-2007, 05:39 PM
I Lost My Son to a War I Oppose. We Were Both Doing Our Duty.

By Andrew J. Bacevich
Sunday, May 27, 2007; Page B01

Parents who lose children, whether through accident or illness, inevitably wonder what they could have done to prevent their loss. When my son was killed in Iraq earlier this month at age 27, I found myself pondering my responsibility for his death.

Among the hundreds of messages that my wife and I have received, two bore directly on this question. Both held me personally culpable, insisting that my public opposition to the war had provided aid and comfort to the enemy. Each said that my son's death came as a direct result of my antiwar writings.

This may seem a vile accusation to lay against a grieving father. But in fact, it has become a staple of American political discourse, repeated endlessly by those keen to allow President Bush a free hand in waging his war. By encouraging "the terrorists," opponents of the Iraq conflict increase the risk to U.S. troops. Although the First Amendment protects antiwar critics from being tried for treason, it provides no protection for the hardly less serious charge of failing to support the troops -- today's civic equivalent of dereliction of duty."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/25/AR2007052502032.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

"I genuinely believed that if the people spoke, our leaders in Washington would listen and respond.

This, I can now see, was an illusion.

The people have spoken, and nothing of substance has changed. The November 2006 midterm elections signified an unambiguous repudiation of the policies that landed us in our present predicament. But half a year later, the war continues, with no end in sight. Indeed, by sending more troops to Iraq (and by extending the tours of those, like my son, who were already there), Bush has signaled his complete disregard for what was once quaintly referred to as "the will of the people.""

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"After my son's death, my state's senators, Edward M. Kennedy and John F. Kerry, telephoned to express their condolences. Stephen F. Lynch, our congressman, attended my son's wake. Kerry was present for the funeral Mass. My family and I greatly appreciated such gestures. But when I suggested to each of them the necessity of ending the war, I got the brushoff. More accurately, after ever so briefly pretending to listen, each treated me to a convoluted explanation that said in essence: Don't blame me.

To whom do Kennedy, Kerry and Lynch listen? We know the answer: to the same people who have the ear of George W. Bush and Karl Rove -- namely, wealthy individuals and institutions.

Money buys access and influence. Money greases the process that will yield us a new president in 2008. When it comes to Iraq, money ensures that the concerns of big business, big oil, bellicose evangelicals and Middle East allies gain a hearing. By comparison, the lives of U.S. soldiers figure as an afterthought.

Memorial Day orators will say that a G.I.'s life is priceless. Don't believe it. I know what value the U.S. government assigns to a soldier's life: I've been handed the check. It's roughly what the Yankees will pay Roger Clemens per inning once he starts pitching next month."

kres24GT
05-29-2007, 08:41 AM
80-90% of parents who lose kids in wars are partially responsible. Let's face it, most of the people who join the military are form lower income families. If these parents had succeeded a bit better in life, their children would have had more and better opportunities besides signing up. His disdain for the war probably did little to lead to the death of his son. However if he is in that huge number of lower/middle class income families whose children comprise most of the military, his poor life choices and poor work ethic contributed greatly.

Bill
05-29-2007, 02:38 PM
80-90% of parents who lose kids in wars are partially responsible. Let's face it, most of the people who join the military are form lower income families. If these parents had succeeded a bit better in life, their children would have had more and better opportunities besides signing up. His disdain for the war probably did little to lead to the death of his son. However if he is in that huge number of lower/middle class income families whose children comprise most of the military, his poor life choices and poor work ethic contributed greatly.

You're such a charmer, Kres.

kres24GT
05-29-2007, 03:04 PM
You're such a charmer, Kres.


I joined the military because my parents were fuck ups. I know first hand.

Bill
05-30-2007, 09:35 PM
Oh, I agree with your point. I'm of much the same opinion as yourself.

In this specific case it is much less likely that it applies, because most poor parents don't get editorials printed in the washington post. More likely that the dead son volunteered out of patriotic fervor than need.

So, picking this dude for your 90%-of-the-time accurate observation was a bit of a low blow in rhetoric.

Which made me chuckle. I can appreciate a good low blow.

stefan segal
05-31-2007, 04:10 AM
There's not a lot of opportunity available today in most kid's economic neighborhoods to expend the levels of energy kids of miliatery age are bursting with.

If you remove travel...air and even car travel to exotic locales, as being beyond ones weekly budget, then what is left is the weekend blowout of drugs and booze putiing an edge on chasing women and fighting other kids in the identical pursuits..not very enlightenig.

There is always the cops and robbers thing...moving street drugs and stealing from cars...with the promis of being a dealer if you are able to grow up...not too rosey a plan to attack life.

Then there is the easy answer to it all...join the marines...see the world, get a free education and a trade...just by signing up...what could be easier...and safer than hanging on the corner.

My point is that I don't think a lot of soldier kids are that political...some are, to be sure, I am not making a blanket statement here, just saying that I don't believe we hear from the majority of soldier-kids...which I believe are those with no future at home worth speaking of, and certainly not a kickass future with lots of free toys and hot weapons to play with.

Whatever the case, soldiers are not responsible for anything but carrying out their orders...what a soldier thinks about his orders only becomes an issue if it negetively effects his performance. Until that point is reached, nobody is paid to give a shit.

What amazes me is that those who make prison law don't offer suitably aged criminal-kids the opportunity to train for the miliatary in a separate prison...like two years of basic training then be judged suitable to induct into the army for a hitch clean of record, if serving honorably. It would be a great chance to rerun the clock of their future and also make good soldiers.

Stefan

Mr. Blue
05-31-2007, 11:43 PM
I joined the military because my parents were fuck ups. I know first hand.

When I was 19 my best friend said he was joining the Navy...When he came to me and told me he saw the recruiter I told him he was fucking nuts. I then took him to the college I was going to...I made sure to drive by all the sorority houses and I introduces him to some fine looking women.

Then I showed him how to fill out some financial aid forms and I let him stay at my place until the next semester started, lol...I know it was unpatriotic of me to talk him out of joining the military...but seriously someone had to do it because his parents certainly weren't.

Moral of the story...college chicks can change the world.

p.s. my friend became a history teacher, has a wife and 2 kids.