North Korea helping Burma on nuclear weapons program

[Smurf-Herder]

N.Korea 'helping Myanmar build nuclear plant': report
(AFP) – 1 hour ago

SYDNEY — North Korea is helping Myanmar build a secret nuclear reactor and plutonium extraction plant to build an atomic bomb within five years, a report said on Saturday, citing the evidence of defectors.

The nuclear complex is hidden inside a mountain at Naung Laing, in Myanmar's north, and runs parallel to a civil reactor being built at another site by Russia, according to the Sydney Morning Herald.

The revelations come just weeks after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton voiced concerns that Pyongyang was transferring weapons and nuclear technology to fellow pariah state Myanmar.

Defectors codenamed Moe Jo and Tin Min reportedly told Australian investigator Desmond Ball the military junta has nuclear ambitions that far exceed its official line.

"They say it's to produce medical isotopes for health purposes in hospitals," Ball said, quoting Tin Min about the prospect of a Myanmar nuclear programme.

"How many hospitals in Burma have nuclear science?" Tin Min allegedly said, using Myanmar's former name. "Burma can barely get electricity up and running. It's a nonsense."

Giving an account of the men's testimony in the Herald, Ball said they "claim to know the regime's plans" and that a nuclear-armed Myanmar was a "genuine possibility".

"In the event that the testimony of the defectors is proved, the alleged secret reactor could be capable of being operational and producing one bomb a year, every year, after 2014," Ball wrote in the newspaper.

Moe Jo, a former army officer, allegedly told Ball he was trained for a 1,000-man "nuclear battalion" and that Myanmar had provided yellowcake uranium to North Korea and Iran.

"He said that the army planned a plutonium reprocessing system and that Russian experts were on site to show how it was done," wrote Ball, who is a strategic studies professor from the Australian National University.

Moe Jo said part of the army's nuclear battalion was stationed in a local village to work on a weapon, and a secret operations centre was hidden in the Setkhaya Mountains, according to Ball.

"(It was) a set up including engineers, artillery and communications to act as a command and control centre for the nuclear weapons program," wrote Ball.

Tin Min was said to have been a book keeper for Tay Za, a close associate of the junta's head General Than Shwe, and told Ball in 2004 he had paid a construction company to build a tunnel in the Naung Laing mountain "wide enough for two trucks to pass each other".

According to the report, Tin Min said Za negotiated nuclear contracts with Russia and North Korea and arranged the collection and transport, at night and by river, of containers of equipment from North Korean boats in Yangon's port.

Tin Min reportedly said Za told him the junta knew it couldn't compete with neighbouring Thailand on conventional weapons, but wanted to "play power like North Korea".

"They hope to combine nuclear and air defence missiles," Za said, according to Tin Min.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hekCh3Io037a9EvrEckZn-BeIbpQ

[environMENTAL_guy]

it sounds scary, but after the lies from Curveball about Iraq, we should be very hesitant to trust defectors

[Smurf-Herder]

it sounds scary, but after the lies from Curveball about Iraq, we should be very hesitant to trust defectors

I think there's more than what's being said in the media. That North Korean ship we were watching a while back was headed there. But if the story has legs, we'll be seeing more stories on this in the future.

[Smurf-Herder]

Here's some additional info on this, not involving the defectors:

Burma suspected of forming nuclear link with North Korea

• Hillary Clinton warns of military co-operation between regimes
• Proliferation experts track purchases of suspicious equipment

Hillary Clinton today expressed concern over military links between North Korea and Burma, after evidence emerged that the Burmese junta may be trying to acquire nuclear technology from Pyongyang.

Experts said there is no proof of a Burmese nuclear programme but pointed to worrying signs. The Burmese military has been doing business with a North Korean company that specialises in nuclear technology. The junta has also made suspicious purchases of sophisticated dual-use equipment. A North Korean ship suspected of heading to Burma with an unknown cargo turned back after being shadowed by American warships earlier this month. Finally, reports have emerged of a secret visit by senior Burmese officials to North Korea late last year.

"We know that there are also growing concerns about military co-operation between North Korea and Burma, which we take very seriously," Clinton, the US secretary of state, told journalists in Bangkok. "It would be destabilising for the region. It would pose a direct threat to Burma's neighbours."

David Albright, the head of the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security, which specialises in monitoring nuclear proliferation, said: "There's no hard evidence, just suspicions right now. We're watching it."

Albright said one of the principal causes of suspicion was the link between the Burmese military and a North Korean firm, Namchongang Trading Corp (NCG), which is under UN and US sanctions for its role in trading in nuclear technology. NCG set up an office in Damascus, and western officials have alleged the company channelled equipment and materials towards the construction of a nuclear reactor in Syria which was destroyed by an Israeli air raid in September 2007. NCG's chief executive is Yun Ho-jin, a nuclear expert who was once North Korea's delegate to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Albright said Burma had also attempted to acquire suspicious technology. "This is hi-tech equipment, capable of making very high precision components. It has other end uses, but it's hard to see why else Burma would be buying it," he said.

Last month, Japan arrested one North Korean and two Japanese businessmen for attempting to export a magnetometer (a device for measuring magnetic fields) to Burma. Magnetometers can be used in archaeology and geophysics, but they are also a critical component in missile guidance systems.

Two years ago, the Burmese junta made an overt attempt to begin a nuclear programme. It signed an agreement with Russian atomic agency Rosatom for the construction of a 10-megawatt research reactor, but the deal stalled, possibly as a result of diplomatic pressure on Moscow. US officials fear Burma may have decided to pursue a covert route through Pyongyang.

Earlier this month, a North Korean freighter, the Kang Nam I, which had made previous trips to Burma, was shadowed at sea by the US navy until it reversed course. It remains unclear what its freight was, and US officials were reluctant to board it, fearing it might be an empty decoy designed to embarrass Washington.

The Associated Press today quoted a South Korean intelligence expert as saying satellite images suggested the Kang Nam I was carrying equipment for a nuclear programme and Scud-type missiles.

Recent reports in Burmese exile media have spoken of a military pact late last year between the two countries, including the construction of underground installations, but the existence of such a pact has yet to be publicly confirmed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/21/burma-north-korea-nuclear-clinton

[Bill Cosby]

Who would they use the bomb on???

Seems most of their enemies are domestic..........

A big toy for the generals???

[Smurf-Herder]

Who would they use the bomb on???

Seems most of their enemies are domestic..........

A big toy for the generals???

One of the articles I read said something about their leaders wanting military parity with Thailand. And they can't do it with conventional arms alone. Apparently they want to have superiority in the region. Or to be able to blackmail others, like North Korea.

[Binky]

It seems half the world is armed with nukes. All it takes is one nut case to push a button and off one goes to God knows where. The whole damn world has gone nuts and slipped off its axis...

I wonder how happy any of the powers that be anywhere across the globe, will be when the whole damn world is blown to bits leaving nothing behind but nuke dust?!? Just pure insanity!

[Smurf-Herder]

It seems half the world is armed with nukes. All it takes is one nut case to push a button and off one goes to God knows where. The whole damn world has gone nuts and slipped off its axis...

I wonder how happy any of the powers that be anywhere across the globe, will be when the whole damn world is blown to bits leaving nothing behind but nuke dust?!? Just pure insanity!

The real scary part is that the UN and big powers are actually doing something - warning countries like Iran that if they don't comply with sanctions, after a few more months they'll (try to) apply more sanctions - that they're not being influenced by in the first place.

For instance, Iran has until September to comply, or they'll try to convince Russia to agree to more sanctions. All that does is drag out things for Iran to be closer to having what they're stalling us to get in the first place.

North Korea has been played with for years. All that did was give them more time to help out Iran, Syria and now Burma with their own nuclear ambitions.

[michelemichele]

It seems half the world is armed with nukes. All it takes is one nut case to push a button and off one goes to God knows where. The whole damn world has gone nuts and slipped off its axis...

I wonder how happy any of the powers that be anywhere across the globe, will be when the whole damn world is blown to bits leaving nothing behind but nuke dust?!? Just pure insanity!
Back in the 80s, They always said that as unpleasant as vertical proliferation is, it's horizontal proliferation we really have to worry about.

Goddamn.

[Dale escondido]

Back in the 80s, They always said that as unpleasant as vertical proliferation is, it's horizontal proliferation we really have to worry about.

Goddamn.

Absolutely, A little threat of isolationism might be a useful tact.
China and russia need to stop fighting us by proxy with every little dictator they find.
Bombs are not the real immediate danger, the material to make them are.

[Bill Cosby]

Absolutely, A little threat of isolationism might be a useful tact.
China and russia need to stop fighting us by proxy with every little dictator they find.
Bombs are not the real immediate danger, the material to make them are.

They are in the game against each other as well........ It mutually benefits them to oppose the west but they have some serious issues that will not go away...

One thing I find interesting & perhaps beneficial to many parts of Africa is the Chinese growing influence.. The west colonized & now essentially ignores much of the place........ Were the former colonist see negative others see opportunity..

[ROdger Right]

Oh I thought they were kicked out and then were enslaved by one of their own anyways.

[Zebulon0351]

And to think that we are STILL in the country that never did posses WMD's in the first place. Good job Bush... skip into Iraq while NK is planning on spreading its nuclear program.

Dumbass.

[Dale escondido]

And to think that we are STILL in the country that never did posses WMD's in the first place. Good job Bush... skip into Iraq while NK is planning on spreading its nuclear program.

Dumbass.

Nuclear is a insurance policy every little despot wishes to achieve.
As far a iraq we broke it so we have to finish there.
You dont appreciate the genius of attacking a muslim country where al-qaeda didnt exist.
It flushed the enemy out of pakistan and elsewhere and put them in masses in a theatre where we were:lmao2:

[Zebulon0351]

Nuclear is a insurance policy every little despot wishes to achieve.
As far a iraq we broke it so we have to finish there.
You dont appreciate the genius of attacking a muslim country where al-qaeda didnt exist.
It flushed the enemy out of pakistan and elsewhere and put them in masses in a theatre where we were:lmao2:

Ok, show me any documentation that validates your theory. But using your logic, why did we just not invade Pakistan?

[Bill Cosby]

Nuclear is a insurance policy every little despot wishes to achieve.
As far a iraq we broke it so we have to finish there.
You dont appreciate the genius of attacking a muslim country where al-qaeda didnt exist.
It flushed the enemy out of pakistan and elsewhere and put them in masses in a theatre where we were:lmao2:

Funny that prior to the invasions the "terrorist" said it was their plan to bring the cowboy to them so they didn't have to go all the way there to kill Americans.......(just have them delived)

Also it was a stated goal that they would use the dumbassed cowboy to topple some of their enemies for them. sadaam being one..... Isn't that kinda of coincidence???

[Dale escondido]

Ok, show me any documentation that validates your theory. But using your logic, why did we just not invade Pakistan?

Are you looking for proof al-qaeda was in iraq before the US troops?:disbelief:
And i would have carpet bombed north pakistan terrors camps all 70 plus while we were chasing bin ladin there.
Sadaam would still be talking shit, so what.

[Dale escondido]

Funny that prior to the invasions the "terrorist" said it was their plan to bring the cowboy to them so they didn't have to go all the way there to kill Americans.......(just have them delived)

Also it was a stated goal that they would use the dumbassed cowboy to topple some of their enemies for them. sadaam being one..... Isn't that kinda of coincidence???

Not 100% following you.
My understanding from looking at terror groups agendas is that the ba'ath party and al-qaeda couldnt agree on much.
Sadaam would treat them much as kurds or shiites.
No reason for them to be in iraq pre occupation.

[Bill Cosby]

Not 100% following you.
My understanding from looking at terror groups agendas is that the ba'ath party and al-qaeda couldnt agree on much.
Sadaam would treat them much as kurds or shiites.
No reason for them to be in iraq pre occupation.

My point being that they stated what they wanted to happen- the usa to come to them..........

That they wanted the usa to take care of some of their problems- sadaam, Egypt etc...

That was the bush plan to...........

He acted like the cowboy they predicted........

[Zebulon0351]

Are you looking for proof al-qaeda was in iraq before the US troops?:disbelief:
And i would have carpet bombed north pakistan terrors camps all 70 plus while we were chasing bin ladin there.
Sadaam would still be talking shit, so what.

So you are saying you are OK with thousands of dead American men and women just because someone was talking shit?

[Zebulon0351]

Not 100% following you.
My understanding from looking at terror groups agendas is that the ba'ath party and al-qaeda couldnt agree on much.
Sadaam would treat them much as kurds or shiites.
No reason for them to be in iraq pre occupation.

Ok.. now saying that.. what exactly did Iraq have to do with the was on terror?

[Dale escondido]

So you are saying you are OK with thousands of dead American men and women just because someone was talking shit?


Before i get nasty in a reply i really want to understand you or you me.
I think we invaded iraq because bush had to prove his dick was bigger than sadaams.
I would have invaded pakistan when we were chasing laden in the bora bora mountains.
Now I do mean the unruled area of the north that hasnt been under any legitimate government for 1000 years.
And i know theres a chinese agreement with them that makes this serious.
But if you want to fight terror you go where terror is, even obama know this, and I am 100% behind him on this one.
Iraq should not of happened, but we have to finish it.

[Zebulon0351]

Before i get nasty in a reply i really want to understand you or you me.
I think we invaded iraq because bush had to prove his dick was bigger than sadaams.
I would have invaded pakistan when we were chasing laden in the bora bora mountains.
Now I do mean the unruled area of the north that hasnt been under any legitimate government for 1000 years.
And i know theres a chinese agreement with them that makes this serious.
But if you want to fight terror you go where terror is, even obama know this, and I am 100% behind him on this one.
Iraq should not of happened, but we have to finish it.

Im glad to see we are on the same sheet of music.

According to you, exactly what has to happen for it to be declared "finished"?

[Dale escondido]

Im glad to see we are on the same sheet of music.

According to you, exactly what has to happen for it to be declared "finished"?

I think we have to support their troops efforts to make daily life safe for it citizens and get utilities working properly then boogie out.

[Zebulon0351]

I think we have to support their troops efforts to make daily life safe for it citizens and get utilities working properly then boogie out.

But what happens when we boogie out? You think Al Qaeda is just going to sit on their ass?

We are in a catch-22 right now. If we stay the SC's will criticize Obama for not keeping his word... If we leave, the SC's will criticize Obama for pulling out once Al Qaeda takes over.

Seems to me like we never should have been there from the beginning. Again... Im glad we are on the same sheet of music on this one.

[Bill Cosby]

I think it is correct we should have never been there.......

Also they will complain not matter what........... I would rather ppl not die any more for an outcome that is a forgone conclusion...

I would like to point out one thing here..... When the usa invaded the country was not even under their complete control......... Imagine trying to keep that place under one banner???

IMO trying to keep everyone else down will keep them out of trouble... I would not want to attempt to rule over that mess. Just look @ the various groups (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/asia/afghanistan/map_flash.html)...........

The place is a worse hog pog then Iraq......... Those groups have little in common but animosity towards anyone that is not them... It was drawn up to suit the British not the ppl living there..........

[Dale escondido]

But what happens when we boogie out? You think Al Qaeda is just going to sit on their ass?

We are in a catch-22 right now. If we stay the SC's will criticize Obama for not keeping his word... If we leave, the SC's will criticize Obama for pulling out once Al Qaeda takes over.

Seems to me like we never should have been there from the beginning. Again... Im glad we are on the same sheet of music on this one.

I dont believe al qaeda could take over iraq.
Sadaam stayed in power because he was the meanest dog in town.
Someone similiar would probably move to the top again.
But some seeds have been planted by our occupation and maybe some good could come from it.
As far as criticism from right(thats me) Obama has to stop running for pres and be pres.
Theres no perfect answers and if terrorists attack again we have to define the enemy and punish with extreme predjustice quickly and not worry about building a new ally nation. This has always been long painful process and with generally negative results.
Notice how the russian invasion of georgia is forgotten already?
They came in kicked ass kept some ground and went home.
Maybe we would not agree with the purpose they proposed, being on different sides but the technique is very effective and ends quickly.

[Bill Cosby]

I dont believe al qaeda could take over iraq.
.

I don't either.......... But think about it.........

They need to have their Viet Nam to......... Imagine those idiots trying to keep the peace & keep those folks down...??? Full time job for anyone & just might keep them to busy w/ their own problems to concern themselves w/ the great satan..........

Maybe being downsized to their back burner for a while will have some upside..

[Dale escondido]

I don't either.......... But think about it.........

They need to have their Viet Nam to......... Imagine those idiots trying to keep the peace & keep those folks down...??? Full time job for anyone & just might keep them to busy w/ their own problems to concern themselves w/ the great satan..........

Maybe being downsized to their back burner for a while will have some upside..

If you were talking about the taliban I might agree.
But I dont see them as terrorists, religious fanatics for sure which has some terror attached.
Al-qaeda would become great targets if they centralized and they know it.
They feel some sort of protection in pakistan as the alliance of 1921 with china keeps a full scale invasion from occuring.
Terrorism ends with education, just look at iran right now, a nation of educated people with a repressive relious regiem.
They are killing em left and right but the time for the fall of this fanatical regiem is close.
The only thing that will stop al qaeda and similar groups is education.

[Bill Cosby]

Very good points :thumbsup:

I am talking about the tailband & al quida.....

It is one thing to desire a huge Islamic republic, & quite another to govern one..

& as you said they make a nice easy target when they do..

[disrupter]

These are Chevron's Unocal thugs getting nuclear weapons for their outlaw, right wing fascism.

So send a Thank You note to Chevron & all the other capitalists for this why don't you?

Capitalists rob the poor to buy off the rich,

& as a bonus they destroy all life on the planet, stupidly including their own.