NO WORK SOCIETY TWO

[Dale escondido]

OK I want to try this subject again.
We work, we consume, and we design items so that nothing lasts long enough to bring this cycle to a stop.
Now we all have jobs, buy stuff and decide how hard to work for how much stuff.
So lets say everything was made to last as long as possible.
Being in manufacturing and working on some designs of equiptment in the 60s I know most all items would last you your whole life if desired.
First think of the enviromental impact.
Second as new ideas changed, older products could service those of lesser means.
So we all or most would work less.
Now some would enjoy and some couldnt do it, which leads to
Three, a change of purpose.
Really arent wars common demoninators people lack of higher purpose.
Glory is a purpose?
I will probably get shit on this post again, but it makes so much sense to me.

[Bill Cosby]

OK I want to try this subject again.
We work, we consume, and we design items so that nothing lasts long enough to bring this cycle to a stop.
Now we all have jobs, buy stuff and decide how hard to work for how much stuff.
So lets say everything was made to last as long as possible.
Being in manufacturing and working on some designs of equiptment in the 60s I know most all items would last you your whole life if desired.
First think of the enviromental impact.
Second as new ideas changed, older products could service those of lesser means.
So we all or most would work less.
Now some would enjoy and some couldnt do it, which leads to
Three, a change of purpose.
Really arent wars common demoninators people lack of higher purpose.
Glory is a purpose?
I will probably get shit on this post again, but it makes so much sense to me.


Now some would enjoy and some couldnt do it, which leads to

Not sure what that means or is asking???

Really arent wars common demoninators people lack of higher purpose.

I am not sure if that is so but I am on board w/ anything that will do away w/ war....

Historically there has not been a lot of cooperation. The emphasis is usually about competition........

It would be great IMO if the focus changed to that centered around getting everyone on the planet clean water (as an example). Only would cost one month in IraQ.........

Space exploration is another area were there has been some cooperation & could be a foundational building block for great cooperation...

[Dale escondido]

Not sure what that means or is asking???



I am not sure if that is so but I am on board w/ anything that will do away w/ war....

Historically there has not been a lot of cooperation. The emphasis is usually about competition........

It would be great IMO if the focus changed to that centered around getting everyone on the planet clean water (as an example). Only would cost one month in IraQ.........

Space exploration is another area were there has been some cooperation & could be a foundational building block for great cooperation...

Thanks for responding,
I feel some might enjoy less effort to survive and some would feel like doing more than required which could shift focus.
War is really a result imo of lack of purpose.
Its about religion money or ego which is very low purpose imo.
I think a lesser work society could turn focus to the human condition, mental and physical, environment and advances in sciences that understand criminal behavior and effective rehabilitation.
We are so focused on survival and the threat to survival that we turn to religion for comfort or an army for the feeling of security or a government to protect.
When in reality these are the entites that lead us into battle with others because of their difference usually not ours.
I know I am somewhat vague, but I have been thinking in this area for a while and just wonder why we cant at least become a lesser consumer nation as a start?

[Bill Cosby]

Thanks for responding,
I feel some might enjoy less effort to survive and some would feel like doing more than required which could shift focus.
War is really a result imo of lack of purpose.
Its about religion money or ego which is very low purpose imo.
I think a lesser work society could turn focus to the human condition, mental and physical, environment and advances in sciences that understand criminal behavior and effective rehabilitation.
We are so focused on survival and the threat to survival that we turn to religion for comfort or an army for the feeling of security or a government to protect.
When in reality these are the entites that lead us into battle with others because of their difference usually not ours.
I know I am somewhat vague, but I have been thinking in this area for a while and just wonder why we cant at least become a lesser consumer nation as a start?


You know if I posted that they would be on me as a Utopian flaming lib...:thumbsup:

I think I agree. TO stir the focus from competition w/ the arms race & wars/waste & all that... & have cooperation to the benefit of us all...:thumbsup:

The question is how???

Maybe the smart ppl can tell us how it won't work :lmao2: so we can get an idea of how it might work........

You have thought about this quite a bit.. How do you think it could come about???

[Mr. Blue]

This topic can spread a lot of smaller topics and branches out kind of endlessly. Being a fan of utopia/dystopia novels, I always find the discussion of the future kind of amusing / scary as even our best minds can't really imagine a perfect flawless Utopia because they have to inject the human element into it and that tends to ruin perfection.

Have you ever read the Time Machine by H.G. Wells? I don't mean the movies, as it doesn't have as much impact, but basically he jumps forward and finds a society of people nearly infantile because everything they need has been provided for them. There's that secondary working class that keeps the muck running with only a small taste for human flesh as payment, lol.

Point being that the Eloi, the race that didn't have to do anything, basically lost that drive to survive, they allowed the Morlock to prey on them, but H.G. Wells felt that a man that didn't have to worry about his existence, becomes helpless in some ways.

Is that necessarily true? I think it's partially correct. I was talking to my girlfriend on this subject and we were talking about when we were kids. This isn't some huge gap of time, but when I was a kid, all summer long I'd be outside playing. You name it, biking, playing stick ball, stoop ball, handball, you name it, I would spend all day until the sun went down playing.

Look at kids today, they spend their time on the computer all day long. When they have free time they'd rather exist in an alternate realm of video game characters. They don't move, they're fatter, they're lacking a real purpose.

A kid will spend hundreds of hours playing guitar hero, but if he actually used that time to learn how to play the guitar, umm, wouldn't that be a more rewarding pursuit?

So, if we had the life of leisure, would we squander it or would we strive for better?

[Bill Cosby]

Good point about guitar herO........ I think though they would say they have lots of time to do that, someday......... As those of us that been around know, sometimes someday never arrives...

I think he was talking up the leisure aspect to appeal to those pleasure sensors.... Not busting are butts still on just another adventure......

I agree we will need challenges, goals, work....... Hopefully all noble & for the advancement of humanity........

Even some competition perhaps to see who can do the most. Be the least self serving etc....

[Mr. Blue]

What about sex and breeding though? Don't men try to be better than other men, to get choice females? I mean, I remember in high school joining the football team, not because I loved the game, but I wanted to have a cheerleader girlfriend.

Isn't that part of the equation as to why men want to be "better" than others? I mean, I could take a guess a Historian that was drunk enough, could make the case that all wars were more or less fueled by sex and breeding.

[Bill Cosby]

What about sex and breeding though? Don't men try to be better than other men, to get choice females? I mean, I remember in high school joining the football team, not because I loved the game, but I wanted to have a cheerleader girlfriend.

Isn't that part of the equation as to why men want to be "better" than others? I mean, I could take a guess a Historian that was drunk enough, could make the case that all wars were more or less fueled by sex and breeding.

LOL......... You bet it is......... Let the herO's be those that worked the hardest & gave the most.... who helped the most old ladies across the street....... etc....

Maybe this afternoon I will attempt that starting w/ Helen of TRoy...lol

[Mr. Blue]

LOL......... You bet it is......... Let the herO's be those that worked the hardest & gave the most.... who helped the most old ladies across the street....... etc....

Maybe this afternoon I will attempt that starting w/ Helen of TRoy...lol

There was a comedian that did a bit on how everything a man does in his life is more or less for the pursuit of sex, lol.

I did have this discussion with one of my professors in college and there is a legit possibility that human history is all about sex. The wars, the cars we drive, the jobs we have, the activities we do, etc...

So I wonder how sex would play out in a Utopia where people had leisure, didn't pursue war, didn't pursue violence, and didn't have that work motivation to buy new things.

I'm suddenly thinking of the Woody Allen movie, The Sleeper, when he goes into that, umm, self pleasuring booth thing, lol.

[Moby]

Is man as a species really ready for that?

Without the need to work long hours to stay alive would most people pursue a higher purpose or would they be board and create chaos.

In The Matrix the plot was that humans living in utopia would die off but one of my favorite lines was in The Last Samurai when Tom Cruise was explaining his admiration for the Japanese village as everyone spent the day becoming the best at whatever they were.

I've always believed that we're slaves to poor quality goods, oil and health care because of the massive profits and the ability to control the masses. If cancer was cured, a car should go for 500,000 miles with repairs and 10 miles on a gallon of water the elite would loss control and wealth.

Personally if I had endless resources I would travel the world, learn about every culture and about many fields of interest from cooking and building to philosophy and music.

Instead I work hard and spend quality time with my beautiful family.

[Mr. Blue]

Personal Utopias, might be a good way to find what a real Utopia would be like. For me, I love to learn, and if my family were rich, I would have been one of those perpetual students constantly learning something...some in college, other by private lesson, or by travel, etc, and I would be completely happy doing that for the rest of my life.

[Independent Harry]

When reading this thread I think that the reason this wouldn't work is because every strives for different things. If we lived in a society where everyone started out equal, everyone was given the same advantages and same disadvanteges, some people would still end up on the top and most woudl still end up on the bottom. Simply beacause of human drive.

Some people find a drive to do things later in life, some find a drive to do things earlier in life. Some people are held back because of disease or obstacles they didn't have control over, but then succeed later on. Then there are people that simply wish to exist in a drugged up stupor for their entire lives. Smoking weed, or doing coke. Then there are fuctional drug users. Who smoke weed, but still maintain a healthy income. There are all sorts of people who land in all sorts of categories. In the end they all sort themselves out.

I think its important for government to take the role of giving everyone the best opportunity available from the beggining, but after that, let people sort themsevles out. I think welfare is a great idea, because some people need that time to recoup, understand what happened and where they are going and need a second how to figure out how to get there. But I think just giving it to people is a bad idea. For isntance, I believe that if you are recieving welfare. The government should have social workers that come to your neighborhood and say, before I give you this check, you need to have your fence painted. Or before I give you this check, your yard has to be completely cleaned and mowed. Teach someone the value of earning money, not getting something for nothing.

One last thought, when I read the discussion. And we got onto the subject of sex. We are all driven by the basest of instincts. One of them being sex. In a novel I read as a kid called the Rama series. There was a alien species extremely advanced in biology that had engineered their bodies not to sexually mature and created queens that hatched all of the offspring, therefore continuing the society. The reason was, beacuse they didn't sexually mature, they became much more intelligent. Their minds weren't dulled by urges they lost control over. They were able to increase intelligence quite a bit by this simple act. I think what I could accomplish if all the doubts, and successes related to sex weren't so prevalent in me. If I didn't have to focus so much attention on the base urge to screw as many girls as possible. I imagine how much time I could put into other things. And how much clearer my thought processes might be.

[Independent Harry]

Just saw this from my favorite mentor, thought it was somewhat relevant to the thread. Hope you guys enjoy.

From Making a Living to Creating a Lifestyle by Jim Rohn

(excerpted from The Day That Turns Your Life Around)

After having struggled for so long, it took a shift in attitude for my family and me when success started to happen. When I started making a little extra money at age 25, Schoaff taught me to also let it serve as a new inspiration for lifestyle. Take my family to dinner after I’d had two or three pretty good weeks and it looked like it was going to continue. I would say, “Today we get to order from only the left-hand side of the menu, we don’t have to look at the right-hand side”. Didn’t cost much, just a little extra. But you can’t believe the effect on the family, wow, that these are new days.

It’s called changing your life as well as changing your skills and earning more money. It’s best to invest some of that early money in lifestyle. Go to the movies. Take two vacations instead of one. Just some little extra things that now the family gets inspired by this new commitment to earning more and becoming more and learning more, taking some night classes, whatever you have to do. Now you make it more worthwhile for the family by thinking of lifestyle changes that now become very exciting. Go to the concerts. My parents said don’t miss anything. Don’t miss the play, the music, the songs, the performances, the movie—whatever is happening.

When I started making some extra money, I opened up an account for my wife and I called it the “No Questions Asked Account.” I said, “Here is the checkbook for a new account and it’s called no questions asked. I’ll just keep putting money in there and you spend it for whatever you wish.” It was life-changing. It wasn’t a fortune. But she didn’t have to ask for money anymore. I could sense that it was a little embarrassing at times when she had to ask me for money. I thought, that’s not good, so the first time I get a chance, here’s what I’m going to do. And sure enough, I did it. The “No Questions Asked Account.” You can’t believe what that did. It was absolutely amazing.

With that little extra money, work at creating lifestyle. Social friendships, church, community, country. All those things that make a composite of our overall life. Start furnishing that with new vigor, vitality, money, whatever it takes to expand your life into what I call the good life as well as economics.
And it doesn’t always take a lot of money. How much is a movie? Even for a person of modest means. $8 or $10? It might cost $60 million to make it and it only costs $8 to see it.

When I discovered those kinds of concepts at age 25 you can imagine it was hard for me to sleep nights that first year. I got so excited about changing everything. And one discipline leads to another. One change leads to another. Feeling good about yourself and starting to make the turn to do something you’ve never done before, then it starts to work, wow, and then you get excited about changing other areas of your life as well.

Now after you have made your fortune, the money and extravagance might not seem as big a deal. And fortunately you can then create even more powerful opportunities, in particular, opportunities for benevolence, philanthropy and giving.

Now I’m certainly not saying to focus only on external pleasures and rewards. Your relationships, health and spirituality are all of more consequence.

But in the beginning, when the rewards of your hard work begin paying off, make sure and treat yourself and those closest to you to a new world of lifestyle and celebrations.

[Mr. Blue]

When reading this thread I think that the reason this wouldn't work is because every strives for different things. If we lived in a society where everyone started out equal, everyone was given the same advantages and same disadvanteges, some people would still end up on the top and most woudl still end up on the bottom. Simply beacause of human drive.

Some people find a drive to do things later in life, some find a drive to do things earlier in life. Some people are held back because of disease or obstacles they didn't have control over, but then succeed later on. Then there are people that simply wish to exist in a drugged up stupor for their entire lives. Smoking weed, or doing coke. Then there are fuctional drug users. Who smoke weed, but still maintain a healthy income. There are all sorts of people who land in all sorts of categories. In the end they all sort themselves out.

I think its important for government to take the role of giving everyone the best opportunity available from the beggining, but after that, let people sort themsevles out. I think welfare is a great idea, because some people need that time to recoup, understand what happened and where they are going and need a second how to figure out how to get there. But I think just giving it to people is a bad idea. For isntance, I believe that if you are recieving welfare. The government should have social workers that come to your neighborhood and say, before I give you this check, you need to have your fence painted. Or before I give you this check, your yard has to be completely cleaned and mowed. Teach someone the value of earning money, not getting something for nothing.

One last thought, when I read the discussion. And we got onto the subject of sex. We are all driven by the basest of instincts. One of them being sex. In a novel I read as a kid called the Rama series. There was a alien species extremely advanced in biology that had engineered their bodies not to sexually mature and created queens that hatched all of the offspring, therefore continuing the society. The reason was, beacuse they didn't sexually mature, they became much more intelligent. Their minds weren't dulled by urges they lost control over. They were able to increase intelligence quite a bit by this simple act. I think what I could accomplish if all the doubts, and successes related to sex weren't so prevalent in me. If I didn't have to focus so much attention on the base urge to screw as many girls as possible. I imagine how much time I could put into other things. And how much clearer my thought processes might be.

Great post, and I basically feel the same way about welfare / working, etc, as I don't think it's healthy for people to get something for nothing.

Also, the whole topic of sex, intelligence and base desires. I sometimes will stop and think how much more I could have done with my life if I didn't fall prey to those desires. Everything from me passing on jobs because I was with a girl, to a variety of other life choices that were dictated by those desires. If they weren't so soft and curvy I might have had more success resisting, lol.

[Independent Harry]

Great post, and I basically feel the same way about welfare / working, etc, as I don't think it's healthy for people to get something for nothing.

Also, the whole topic of sex, intelligence and base desires. I sometimes will stop and think how much more I could have done with my life if I didn't fall prey to those desires. Everything from me passing on jobs because I was with a girl, to a variety of other life choices that were dictated by those desires. If they weren't so soft and curvy I might have had more success resisting, lol.

Thanks for the props, I hear great minds think alike :)

[doctordog]

Is man as a species really ready for that?

Without the need to work long hours to stay alive would most people pursue a higher purpose or would they be board and create chaos.

In The Matrix the plot was that humans living in utopia would die off but one of my favorite lines was in The Last Samurai when Tom Cruise was explaining his admiration for the Japanese village as everyone spent the day becoming the best at whatever they were.

I've always believed that we're slaves to poor quality goods, oil and health care because of the massive profits and the ability to control the masses. If cancer was cured, a car should go for 500,000 miles with repairs and 10 miles on a gallon of water the elite would loss control and wealth.

Personally if I had endless resources I would travel the world, learn about every culture and about many fields of interest from cooking and building to philosophy and music.

Instead I work hard and spend quality time with my beautiful family.


What you mention in the Cruise movie could work if everyone pitched in, however we see how that works now. A large portion of the country works, pay taxes, and contributes to society as whole but then we have the uncommitted that barely lifts a finger to help themselves or anyone else. In Utopia you woudl still have those people.

[Bill Cosby]

There was a comedian that did a bit on how everything a man does in his life is more or less for the pursuit of sex, lol.

I did have this discussion with one of my professors in college and there is a legit possibility that human history is all about sex. The wars, the cars we drive, the jobs we have, the activities we do, etc...

So I wonder how sex would play out in a Utopia where people had leisure, didn't pursue war, didn't pursue violence, and didn't have that work motivation to buy new things.

I'm suddenly thinking of the Woody Allen movie, The Sleeper, when he goes into that, umm, self pleasuring booth thing, lol.

I have not really explored that idea much. Other than some discussions about "Women ruling the world".......... & I think there may be some up side there...

Hey Bink...........LOL :thumbsup:

Sex in "Utopia" is a problem as are those other human emotions & drives....:(

As our hippie/commune brethren soon learned back in the days of drugs, sex & rock n roll...

A few days ago I was watching a documentary on AIM (American Indian movement)..... Well things on Alcatraz were great the first few weeks... Tribes & egos getting along fine till these very issues started coming up. Finally they had to lay down strict rules & some were unceremoniously "kicked off the island"....

The down side of any Utopian (or otherwise) ideal is ppl........ If we could only find a way to get them out of the equation things would work fine..lol

[Mr, gone]

Excellent thread by all...

[Dale escondido]

You know if I posted that they would be on me as a Utopian flaming lib...:thumbsup:

I think I agree. TO stir the focus from competition w/ the arms race & wars/waste & all that... & have cooperation to the benefit of us all...:thumbsup:

The question is how???

Maybe the smart ppl can tell us how it won't work :lmao2: so we can get an idea of how it might work........

You have thought about this quite a bit.. How do you think it could come about???


I think the potential for a no work society is still 50-100years away but does exist.
I see many problems as long as the human condition remains the same.
I believe there would be a long period of inaction where we would just become an idle society.
Whats the most important thing to this working is to learn how to recognize manipulation.
There will always be those who look to take advantage of others.
You see survival ,the most basic of instint really requires vigilence in all circumstances even the best.
I have posted before that truth is art, believing that misrepresentation is allowed as long as the words arent a lie just the result of the thought.
A higher purpose ,a world without war, pain or poverty is not hard to sell to a the left. Even those on the far right would agree with the concept except for the human factor they see making this a joke.
My son told me years ago he could eat tacos every day forever.
I said ok I like tacos too, we will have that every night until you say your done.
It lasted two weeks:)

[Dale escondido]

There was a comedian that did a bit on how everything a man does in his life is more or less for the pursuit of sex, lol.

I did have this discussion with one of my professors in college and there is a legit possibility that human history is all about sex. The wars, the cars we drive, the jobs we have, the activities we do, etc...

So I wonder how sex would play out in a Utopia where people had leisure, didn't pursue war, didn't pursue violence, and didn't have that work motivation to buy new things.

I'm suddenly thinking of the Woody Allen movie, The Sleeper, when he goes into that, umm, self pleasuring booth thing, lol.

Woody Allen really made some good points in that film.
The computers ran our lives but we could only exist at the level of the ability of the computer functions.
As they degraded so did society as no one was capable of repairing them:lmao2:
There are always fears associated with changing ones existence, but fear itself is a condition that need to be addressed as a problem of the human condition.

[Dale escondido]

Is man as a species really ready for that?

Without the need to work long hours to stay alive would most people pursue a higher purpose or would they be board and create chaos.

In The Matrix the plot was that humans living in utopia would die off but one of my favorite lines was in The Last Samurai when Tom Cruise was explaining his admiration for the Japanese village as everyone spent the day becoming the best at whatever they were.

I've always believed that we're slaves to poor quality goods, oil and health care because of the massive profits and the ability to control the masses. If cancer was cured, a car should go for 500,000 miles with repairs and 10 miles on a gallon of water the elite would loss control and wealth.

Personally if I had endless resources I would travel the world, learn about every culture and about many fields of interest from cooking and building to philosophy and music.

Instead I work hard and spend quality time with my beautiful family.

That puts you exactly where we should be after an idle period.
And why couldnt your family be with you during your adventures?
Boredom is painful and entertainment relieves the pain, but most would eventually look to a similiar life as you mentioned.

[Dale escondido]

Great post, and I basically feel the same way about welfare / working, etc, as I don't think it's healthy for people to get something for nothing.

Also, the whole topic of sex, intelligence and base desires. I sometimes will stop and think how much more I could have done with my life if I didn't fall prey to those desires. Everything from me passing on jobs because I was with a girl, to a variety of other life choices that were dictated by those desires. If they weren't so soft and curvy I might have had more success resisting, lol.

This is probably the most important area to address when moving past consumer driven lives.
Sex is competition and consumption, its how we are wired and leads to many of mankinds downfall.
When my first wife left me after 2 years I was devistated and my exteme was very low.
So I went on the hunt to build it back up dating two three at a time.
After five years I decided I should spend the rest of time alone.
When I didnt care if I had a relationship or not I met my second wife who adores me and me her.Were working on 20 now and no one has a better friend than I have in my wife.
There is much more to understanding this area but it is vital to help stablize a society.
As far as welfare it wouldn"t really be necessary in a perfect world but a kick in the ass would probably still be a goverment function necessary for the betterment of society.

[Dale escondido]

What you mention in the Cruise movie could work if everyone pitched in, however we see how that works now. A large portion of the country works, pay taxes, and contributes to society as whole but then we have the uncommitted that barely lifts a finger to help themselves or anyone else. In Utopia you woudl still have those people.

Utopia is a funny concept, a perfect world.
But why do we fight each other and compete constantly but for stuff.
If survival is taken off the list as a basic need do you really care if someone chooses to do less?
I am sure there will always be things unatainable to some do to inactions and others saying get off your butt, but addressing each condition is a higher purpose and seemingly unattainable without understanding the human mind.
I had a brother killed by a serial pedifile named ray mack edwards and a book will soon be out because of the massive numbers involved.
But did he wake up one day and say gee I guess I will kill 53 little children in my life?
Now dont get me wrong, I am conservative and would end these guys existence quickly, but understanding what went wrong and why is attainable in my oppinion and could help down the line.

[Hog Trash]

OK I want to try this subject again.
We work, we consume, and we design items so that nothing lasts long enough to bring this cycle to a stop.
Now we all have jobs, buy stuff and decide how hard to work for how much stuff.
So lets say everything was made to last as long as possible.
Being in manufacturing and working on some designs of equiptment in the 60s I know most all items would last you your whole life if desired.
First think of the enviromental impact.
Second as new ideas changed, older products could service those of lesser means.
So we all or most would work less.
Now some would enjoy and some couldnt do it, which leads to
Three, a change of purpose.
Really arent wars common demoninators people lack of higher purpose.
Glory is a purpose?
I will probably get shit on this post again, but it makes so much sense to me.Humans are nothing more than animals with the same biological and instinctual motivations of all species...The basic instincts of all life.

The one thing that seperates us from the others is of course our brains which aids us in the two primary drives of all species...Survival and reproduction.

These things are hard-wired into the DNA of all animals...The basic instincts of life...Everything else we do is built around these two complex motivaters...All things stem from these two basic instincts.

At first glance, reproduction seems to take dominance above survival but that is only because our lives are not always in danger and survival instinct lies dorment much of the time untill fear and adrenalin kick it into action.

In some the two motivaters are stronger...We can see it in the people we deal with every day...In modern society they are the sexier, the more flirtatious, the more aggressive, the more confident, the more ambitious, the go getters.

These things can be applied to every stuation, decision, industry, war and right down to how long an automobile will last...All things are relative to the two basic instincts of life...Survival and reproduction...IMO of course.

[mwillman]

I think that is a bit simplistic Hog Trash.

Yes reproduction and survival are basic drives in our species but our brains are far more powerful and we have learned to harness those drives in ways that have nothing to do with the original design of the instinct.

Of course if you do not train your mind then your instincts will rule you but they are not the only drivers and I would say that they are not always the most powerful.

[Dale escondido]

Humans are nothing more than animals with the same biological and instinctual motivations of all species...The basic instincts of all life.

The one thing that seperates us from the others is of course our brains which aids us in the two primary drives of all species...Survival and reproduction.

These things are hard-wired into the DNA of all animals...The basic instincts of life...Everything else we do is built around these two complex motivaters...All things stem from these two basic instincts.

At first glance, reproduction seems to take dominance above survival but that is only because our lives are not always in danger and survival instinct lies dorment much of the time untill fear and adrenalin kick it into action.

In some the two motivaters are stronger...We can see it in the people we deal with every day...In modern society they are the sexier, the more flirtatious, the more aggressive, the more confident, the more ambitious, the go getters.

These things can be applied to every stuation, decision, industry, war and right down to how long an automobile will last...All things are relative to the two basic instincts of life...Survival and reproduction...IMO of course.

Thanks for weighing in.
If basic survival was less stressful not an everyday struggle would it advance what we look at as new challenges or just make us lazy?
Myself I believe both.

[Dale escondido]

I think that is a bit simplistic Hog Trash.

Yes reproduction and survival are basic drives in our species but our brains are far more powerful and we have learned to harness those drives in ways that have nothing to do with the original design of the instinct.

Of course if you do not train your mind then your instincts will rule you but they are not the only drivers and I would say that they are not always the most powerful.

I think our primative minds remind us why they are there when we in danger by providing the fight or flight response which triggers a chemical action in our body which is hard to ignore, Its basic survival technique.
Where we get trouble is when it is triggered in normal situations to different degrees which usually cause fear unjustified.
Again a condition that causes us to take posistions not necessarily right for a normal existence.

[mwillman]

But things like fear are good for us and not just when a lion is attacking.

We have learned to use the fight or flight mechanism to help us be alert and motivated in many situations that are not really survival oriented. Its not perfect and its not always a good thing but when it is working our basic instincts are more then just the sum of their parts.

[Hog Trash]

Thanks for weighing in.
If basic survival was less stressful not an everyday struggle would it advance what we look at as new challenges or just make us lazy?
Myself I believe both.Basic survival today is your job, wearing a seatbelt, rubber mat in the shower...Extreme survival is escaping a burning building, a home invader or lost at sea.

Most people prefer to keep stress and danger simple and safe as possible while some seek out extreme dangers like mountain climbing, cliffdiving or bunji jumping.

Some people are satisfied clerking at a convienient store, some want to control corporatons....Some are satisfied sitting behind a desk all day, others need to move constantly throughout the day.

Regardless we all strive to stay alive and reproduce....How well we do at life depends on each of us as individuals and our abilities, brains, drive and the limits of what we are willing to risk.

One man might dig a ditch while another will construct the Great Pyramid of Giza.

[Dale escondido]

Basic survival today is your job, wearing a seatbelt, rubber mat in the shower...Extreme survival is escaping a burning building, a home invader or lost at sea.

Most people prefer to keep stress and danger simple and safe as possible while some seek out extreme dangers like mountain climbing, cliffdiving or bunji jumping.

Some people are satisfied clerking at a convienient store, some want to control corporatons....Some are satisfied sitting behind a desk all day, others need to move constantly throughout the day.

Regardless we all strive to stay alive and reproduce....How well we do at life depends on each of us as individuals and our abilities, brains, drive and the limits of what we are willing to risk.

One man might dig a ditch while another will construct the Great Pyramid of Giza.

I see I am not very clear here.
I am mixing survival impulse with consumuption.
What i mean is if technology advances to a point where work become almost unnecessary can we create products that last a lifetime and a person become free of work very early.
what if everything was produced that was needed and we could change our focus out to poverty, hunger etc.
Were caught in producing things that last long enough to afford it again and again.
Examply; the free piston engine later named rotary when bought by mazda was designed in 30s and would run only hundred of mile before impellers burnt up.
Late sixty metals improved and first test motors ran a million miles and was unexceptable.
I think it took 2 years to design a metal that lasted 120,000 average.