Dear Leader Squeezes In a Game of Golf... His 10th in 10 Weeks

[Frankg]

Just like Nero
Dear Leader Squeezes In a Game of Golf... His 10th in 10 Weeks (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/dear-leader-squeezes-in-game-of-golf.html)
It's the worst recession since the Great Depression.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s200/obama+golfing.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s1600-h/obama+golfing.jpg)
Dear Leader was able to squeeze in another game of golf this weekend.
The Hill (http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/07/26/obama-plays-golfagain/) reported:

President Obama has become quite the golf fanatic since he began his presidency.

The commander in chief is out on the links again today, playing a round at Andrews Air Force Base. This is the 10th time in as many weeks that Obama has found time to squeeze in some golf (all weekends, except for one Monday.)
Thankfully, his last name is not 'Bush,' or the state-run media would be merciless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSRxNPqqUH4&feature=related).http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/

[bairdi]

Big freaking deal! Obama likes to golf. Maybe more of you right wing fanatics should take up the game instead of continuously bitching and blogging about Obama playing it.


Dwight Eisenhower Elected to World Golf Hall of Fame
The General and President and His Love of Golf

By Brent Kelley,

Jun 26 2009
Dwight David Eisenhower, supreme commander of the Allies in World War II, the architect of D-Day, and two-term president of the United States, has been elected to the World Golf Hall of Fame.

Eisenhower was selected in the Lifetime Achievement Category and is the fourth announced member of the Class of 2009, the others being Lanny Wadkins, Jose Maria Olazabal and Christy O'Connor Sr.

The King, Arnold Palmer, said of the prez:

"One would be hard-pressed to find any single person who did more to popularize the game of golf, not only in the United States but throughout the world, than President Eisenhower. His visibility, coupled with his passion for the game, were the inspiration for literally millions of people picking up the game for the first time. Those involved in golf today owe him a great debt of gratitude."

Eisenhower was the most famous golfer in the world - or perhaps a better way to state is that he was the most famous person who was an avid golfer - during his presidency. Ike was in office from 1953-61; at the beginning of that period, according to Don Van Natta, Jr., author of First Off The Tee (compare prices), just over three million Americans were golfers. By the end of his term, more than six million Americans were playing the game. There's even a book about Ike's impact on golf, called Don't Ask What I Shot: How Eisenhower's Love of Golf Helped Shape 1950s America (compare prices).

How did Ike impact those numbers? His visibility playing the game, and enthusiasm for it. Eisenhower had a putting green installed on the White House lawn. He was a member of Augusta National Golf Club and played there a lot.

According to a Golf Digest article from 2008, Eisenhower played golf more than 800 times during his presidency. Imagine Barack Obama trying to get away with that in today's environment.

And Ike's presidency wasn't a time of tranquillity in America or the world: The Civil Rights movement and Southern desegregation battles were under way; Castro came to power in Cuba; the French pulled out of Indochina in defeat and America began stepping up its own involvement in Vietnam; the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union was getting very chilly indeed.

And yet Eisenhower managed to spend more than 1,000 days of his presidency (according to Golf Digest's count) playing golf or involved in some other golf-related activity.

That is devotion to the game.

Eisenhower's love of golf is spotlighted each year during The Masters when announcers note several features of Augusta National named after the president.

Ike's Pond is part of the Par-3 Course at Augusta, named after Eisenhower because he's the one who suggested impounding a spring to form the pond. He wanted a secluded fishing spot.

The Eisenhower Cabin is used by club members and was added to Augusta in 1953. And the Eisenhower Tree (sometimes called Ike's Tree) is on the 17th fairway. It's called that because Ike hit it so often with his drives that he eventually tried - unsuccessfully - to have it cut down.

http://golf.about.com/od/historyofgolf/a/ikegolf.htm

[Tommy]

They say he likes to play golf cause its the one of the only places he can squeeze in a smoke

I wouldnt begrudge the man a weekly game of Golf

[doctordog]

Just like Nero
Dear Leader Squeezes In a Game of Golf... His 10th in 10 Weeks (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/dear-leader-squeezes-in-game-of-golf.html)
It's the worst recession since the Great Depression.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s200/obama+golfing.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s1600-h/obama+golfing.jpg)
Dear Leader was able to squeeze in another game of golf this weekend.
The Hill (http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/07/26/obama-plays-golfagain/) reported:

.)
Thankfully, his last name is not 'Bush,' or the state-run media would be merciless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSRxNPqqUH4&feature=related).http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/

The picture looks like OJ without my glasses:lmao2:

[bairdi]

The picture looks like OJ without my glasses:lmao2:
I didn't know OJ wore your glasses. Did he wear your gloves too? :lmao2: :lmao2:

[doctordog]

I didn't know OJ wore your glasses. Did he wear your gloves too? :lmao2: :lmao2:

:lmao2: :lmao2:

[Frankg]

Big freaking deal! Obama likes to golf. Maybe more of you right wing fanatics should take up the game instead of continuously bitching and blogging about Obama playing it.


Dwight Eisenhower Elected to World Golf Hall of Fame
The General and President and His Love of Golf

By Brent Kelley,

Jun 26 2009
Dwight David Eisenhower, supreme commander of the Allies in World War II, the architect of D-Day, and two-term president of the United States, has been elected to the World Golf Hall of Fame.

Eisenhower was selected in the Lifetime Achievement Category and is the fourth announced member of the Class of 2009, the others being Lanny Wadkins, Jose Maria Olazabal and Christy O'Connor Sr.

The King, Arnold Palmer, said of the prez:

"One would be hard-pressed to find any single person who did more to popularize the game of golf, not only in the United States but throughout the world, than President Eisenhower. His visibility, coupled with his passion for the game, were the inspiration for literally millions of people picking up the game for the first time. Those involved in golf today owe him a great debt of gratitude."

Eisenhower was the most famous golfer in the world - or perhaps a better way to state is that he was the most famous person who was an avid golfer - during his presidency. Ike was in office from 1953-61; at the beginning of that period, according to Don Van Natta, Jr., author of First Off The Tee (compare prices), just over three million Americans were golfers. By the end of his term, more than six million Americans were playing the game. There's even a book about Ike's impact on golf, called Don't Ask What I Shot: How Eisenhower's Love of Golf Helped Shape 1950s America (compare prices).

How did Ike impact those numbers? His visibility playing the game, and enthusiasm for it. Eisenhower had a putting green installed on the White House lawn. He was a member of Augusta National Golf Club and played there a lot.

According to a Golf Digest article from 2008, Eisenhower played golf more than 800 times during his presidency. Imagine Barack Obama trying to get away with that in today's environment.

And Ike's presidency wasn't a time of tranquillity in America or the world: The Civil Rights movement and Southern desegregation battles were under way; Castro came to power in Cuba; the French pulled out of Indochina in defeat and America began stepping up its own involvement in Vietnam; the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union was getting very chilly indeed.

And yet Eisenhower managed to spend more than 1,000 days of his presidency (according to Golf Digest's count) playing golf or involved in some other golf-related activity.

That is devotion to the game.

Eisenhower's love of golf is spotlighted each year during The Masters when announcers note several features of Augusta National named after the president.

Ike's Pond is part of the Par-3 Course at Augusta, named after Eisenhower because he's the one who suggested impounding a spring to form the pond. He wanted a secluded fishing spot.

The Eisenhower Cabin is used by club members and was added to Augusta in 1953. And the Eisenhower Tree (sometimes called Ike's Tree) is on the 17th fairway. It's called that because Ike hit it so often with his drives that he eventually tried - unsuccessfully - to have it cut down.

http://golf.about.com/od/historyofgolf/a/ikegolf.htm
Besides being one of the biggest military pussies in US history ,Eishenhower is responsible for letting Hitler rebuild his panzer divisions during WWII, thus extending the duration of the war.
http://www.pattonhq.com/unknown/chap06.html

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Just like Nero
Dear Leader Squeezes In a Game of Golf... His 10th in 10 Weeks (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/dear-leader-squeezes-in-game-of-golf.html)
It's the worst recession since the Great Depression.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s200/obama+golfing.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/Sm0xxxxiYRI/AAAAAAAAdAQ/64ZkMfqAtjA/s1600-h/obama+golfing.jpg)
Dear Leader was able to squeeze in another game of golf this weekend.
The Hill (http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/07/26/obama-plays-golfagain/) reported:

.)
Thankfully, his last name is not 'Bush,' or the state-run media would be merciless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSRxNPqqUH4&feature=related).http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
WOW! I see it did not take long at all for someone to take senior dumbfucks place in posting Obession posts on Obama golfing...so Frank are you gonna start posting post after post on this and where Obama is on "vacation" now so we can truly call you Senior Chief #2?

[MintJulep]

WOW! I see it did not take long at all for someone to take senior dumbfucks place in posting Obession posts on Obama golfing...so Frank are you gonna start posting post after post on this and where Obama is on "vacation" now so we can truly call you Senior Chief #2?Oh, you again. Gee, did you get this tired of the repetitive clip of Bush "watch this drive" clip that was played for eight years straight?

Or are we not supposed to discuss Obama's golfing habits because he's "black"?

[Frankg]

They say he likes to play golf cause its the one of the only places he can squeeze in a smoke

I wouldnt begrudge the man a weekly game of Golf

I WOULD !!!

OBAMA CAN TAKE HIS 9-IRON AND SHOVE IT UP HIS FUCKING ASS....SIDEWAYS !!!!

THIS PRESIDENT IS NOT DOING HIS JOB.

Since he took office we are losing jobs at a rate of 20,000 per month.

Where are all these jobs Tommy ?

How can you support this racist snob ?

The stimulus plan is clearly not working and obama doesn't give a shit.

I honestly think he wants to destroy this country.

[Life_Long_Dem!]

Oh, you again. Gee, did you get this tired of the repetitive clip of Bush "watch this drive" clip that was played for eight years straight?

Or are we not supposed to discuss Obama's golfing habits because he's "black"?
when is the last time I even mentioned that mans name? I didnt in this or any of the recent ones so that is not an issue here. In this post i was simply pointing out the ridiculous nature of these "posts" and since YOU went there...how many press conferences did you dear hero Bush hold during his first term??? I believe I can count them on one hand and still have fingers left over and how many"vacations' did the man take? OH WAIT according to senior dumbo he was working on those vacations at his ranch...my bad:p

[Frankg]

WOW! I see it did not take long at all for someone to take senior dumbfucks place in posting Obession posts on Obama golfing...so Frank are you gonna start posting post after post on this and where Obama is on "vacation" now so we can truly call you Senior Chief #2?

Yea that's right LLD, obama bashing pure and simple .

This country is in a crisis .

He doesn't care and america is gradually realizing that they made a mistake, just look at his latest poll numbers.

I hope that I am wrong but so far, based on his polices , I believe obama wants to breakup the United States of America.

...and by the way .... whatever happened to all promises ?

He hasn't kept one.

[Mr. Blue]

Oh, you again. Gee, did you get this tired of the repetitive clip of Bush "watch this drive" clip that was played for eight years straight?

Even though the topic is kind of stale to me. I mean I don't care if he plays golf or not. There is a point that this can be viewed as a tit for tat for the Dems doing the same thing.

I never really got the game of golf though...Is it supposed to be relaxing or something? I caddied for one summer when I was a teen at the Garden City Golf Course...I think it turned me off golf as a "sport" cause I'd caddy for some like 90 years that could still play.

[mwillman]

Lady Liberty doesn't seem to care so much about the nation as long as she can get revenge for all the times Bush was shown for the fool he was.

[doctordog]

Lady Liberty doesn't seem to care so much about the nation as long as she can get revenge for all the times Bush was shown for the fool he was.

that is crap mwillman, you only seem to care about getting even for the last 8 years as you put it quite often. LL7 and I and several more hate that we played by the rules and now someone wants to take away what we have earned and share it with people that didn't give a fuck about their futures, didn't participate in the support of the country, and probably never voted until this past year.

[Tommy]

Where are all these jobs Tommy ?


They are everywhere... just pick up a newspaper or watch the real news

Near 2,000 teachers will retain their jobs in Florida's Miami-Dade district because of stimulus funds. Officials in half the states surveyed said recovery act money will prevent layoffs.

and thats just teachers in Dade County
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/08/news/economy/stimulus_funding_report/index.htm?postversion=2009070818&FORM=ZZNR9

Remember despite what you think.. Only 10% of the stimulus Money has been spent

I know you guys are already adding up interest on money that hasnt been spent but only 10% of the stim has been spent

and things are already getting better
New home sales are up a whoping 11% for June

[Mr. Blue]

Lady Liberty doesn't seem to care so much about the nation as long as she can get revenge for all the times Bush was shown for the fool he was.

Personally I think there's better things to talk about, but you know the old saying, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"...I think you see it on a lot of topics regarding politics of late.

There's people that look at the Dems and Reps, they see the back and forth, and it just has this surreal feeling of watching children playing. The same Republicans that blew off Bush golfing or whatever, are now the attack dogs against Obama playing...the same Democrats that focused on the same minutia with Bush, are suddenly offended by someone attacking Obama for golfing.

Is she justified in raising the point? Yes. Are there better things to focus on, I think there's a yes there as well.

[Dale escondido]

They are everywhere... just pick up a newspaper or watch the real news

Near 2,000 teachers will retain their jobs in Florida's Miami-Dade district because of stimulus funds. Officials in half the states surveyed said recovery act money will prevent layoffs.

and thats just teachers in Dade County
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/08/news/economy/stimulus_funding_report/index.htm?postversion=2009070818&FORM=ZZNR9

Remember despite what you think.. Only 10% of the stimulus Money has been spent

I know you guys are already adding up interest on money that hasnt been spent but only 10% of the stim has been spent

and things are already getting better
New home sales are up a whoping 11% for June

Yep, government jobs are feeling the stimilus.
But in the real world where money isnt free its different.
And housing is soooo good especially for those selling their houses for massive loses, excuse me losing their houses and banks selling them for loses made easier by fiat money.
Yep , its all under control if you dont look at it logically.

[Tommy]

Yep, government jobs are feeling the stimilus.
But in the real world where money isnt free its different.
And housing is soooo good especially for those selling their houses for massive loses, excuse me losing their houses and banks selling them for loses made easier by fiat money.
Yep , its all under control if you dont look at it logically.
see thats exactly what I mean

I said things are improving ....but you have to spin what I said cause ...

in the real world... did you mean the world that runs on hard data ????

new home sales are up 11% for the month of June
its been up 3 months in a row

As I said things are improving

[mwillman]

Personally I think there's better things to talk about, but you know the old saying, "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"...I think you see it on a lot of topics regarding politics of late.

There's people that look at the Dems and Reps, they see the back and forth, and it just has this surreal feeling of watching children playing. The same Republicans that blew off Bush golfing or whatever, are now the attack dogs against Obama playing...the same Democrats that focused on the same minutia with Bush, are suddenly offended by someone attacking Obama for golfing.

Is she justified in raising the point? Yes. Are there better things to focus on, I think there's a yes there as well.


There some truth to what you say but I don't see a moral equivalence.

What the democrats I know where fighting when Bush was in Office is far different then what the right is fighting to stop in this nation.

We wanted to stop an unnecessary war, we wanted a pay go system that would keep the deficit down, we wanted the financial market regulated. None of that happened and now we have to deal with the ramifications.

They want to stop fixing the national health care system and there only argument seems to be they think anyone that can't get health insurance is a fraud.

No I see no moral equivalence at all.

[Dale escondido]

see thats exactly what I mean

I said things are improving ....but you have to spin what I said cause ...

in the real world... did you mean the world that runs on hard data ????

new home sales are up 11% for the month of June
its been up 3 months in a row

As I said things are improving

I understand you will not see my point so I will not try.
All I ask is to try to be truthful and ask yourself if bush or mccain did this would you see it the same.

[Frankg]

see thats exactly what I mean

I said things are improving ....but you have to spin what I said cause ...

in the real world... did you mean the world that runs on hard data ????

new home sales are up 11% for the month of June
its been up 3 months in a row

As I said things are improving

How are things improving if we are still losing over 16000 jobs per month ?

[Zebulon0351]

Blah blah blah blah...

Dubya spent close to three years @ his ranch or @ camp david.. Quit bitching

[Frankg]

Originally posted by Tommy
Near 2,000 teachers will retain their jobs in Florida's Miami-Dade district because of stimulus funds. Officials in half the states surveyed said recovery act money will prevent layoffs

Right , the key word here is RETAIN , not add.


Got anything else Tommy?

[Mr. Blue]

There some truth to what you say but I don't see a moral equivalence.

What the democrats I know where fighting when Bush was in Office is far different then what the right is fighting to stop in this nation.

We wanted to stop an unnecessary war, we wanted a pay go system that would keep the deficit down, we wanted the financial market regulated. None of that happened and now we have to deal with the ramifications.

They want to stop fixing the national health care system and there only argument seems to be they think anyone that can't get health insurance is a fraud.

No I see no moral equivalence at all.

So wait, why did you stop trying to end an unnecessary war? Iraq? Afghanistan? As far as I see, while we're scaling back in Iraq, we'll still have troops there for awhile. Afghanistan we're increasing troops? Are we not?

As far as the state of the economy, you make it like the Dems weren't there during 8 years and goose stepping along with Bush on every little thing he wanted.

It's politics as usual. The point of golf is just one tiny thing...when you start looking at issues of anti-war, spending, etc, etc, you'll see that both parties had their positions juxtaposed just because their party was in power.

[Tommy]

How are things improving if we are still losing over 16000 jobs per month ?

cause back in Jan were losing 700 thousand Jobs a month... 741000 in January to be exact

see 160, is a lot less then 700
thats an imporvment .. that also proves that Obama is repairing the damage

[Frankg]

Got a link ?

[Bill Cosby]

Yea that's right LLD, obama bashing pure and simple .

This country is in a crisis .

He doesn't care and america is gradually realizing that they made a mistake, just look at his latest poll numbers.

I hope that I am wrong but so far, based on his polices , I believe obama wants to breakup the United States of America.

...and by the way .... whatever happened to all promises ?

He hasn't kept one.

Did you watch the polls when bush was there??? they didn't mean much when he was dragging the historical bottom....:thumbsup:

Ya'll can whine about it all you like but when appropriate I for one am gonna bring up bush the lesser- the last administration.

When bush was elected did the Clinton bashing suddenly cease?? NO!!!

Much of what he did was carried over........ Much of what he did directly effected bush.......... Mentioning & occasionally bashing some of his moves would seem natural part of discourse..

I hope that I am wrong but so far, based on his polices , I believe obama wants to breakup the United States of America. :lmao2: :lmao2:

Why not make a thread on that topic............ Make it interesting..:thumbsup:

[mwillman]

So wait, why did you stop trying to end an unnecessary war? Iraq? Afghanistan? As far as I see, while we're scaling back in Iraq, we'll still have troops there for awhile. Afghanistan we're increasing troops? Are we not?

I have always been a supporter of doing the right thing in Afghanistan, meaning getting enough troops in there to keep the peace and to stop the Taliban from gaining power and to stop the terrorist organizations that perpetrated 9/11. We were attacked on 911 it just wasn't Iraq.

I wish the pull out of Iraq could be quicker but I understand that its a fragile situation and I recognize that to do it right will take some time.



As far as the state of the economy, you make it like the Dems weren't there during 8 years and goose stepping along with Bush on every little thing he wanted.

The republicans controlled congress for 6 of Bushes 8 years and Bush went from being the president with the least number of vetos to the president with the most number of vetos in 2 years.(2006 -2008)

So no I do not think they were goose stepping along. I think the democrats are trying way to hard to keep the republicans engaged in the debate when they just scream No to just about everything.

I think way to many democrats are in the hands of big business but I think thats true of both parties especially the giant insurance companies that are spending billions fighting any health care reform.


It's politics as usual. The point of golf is just one tiny thing...when you start looking at issues of anti-war, spending, etc, etc, you'll see that both parties had their positions juxtaposed just because their party was in power.

Yes much of it is politics as usual but then what other kind of politics is there.
Nobody likes it but what other option is there, Utopian dreams are nice on paper but they do not work in the real world. Here everyone is fighting for what they want or beleive in and politicians are asked to sort it all out and make the rules we live by. We have giant bureaucracies that perform important work but they don't change over night.

Yes it politics as usual but the wind has changed and the big boat can change direction it just needs time and a lot of work.

[Mr. Blue]

I have always been a supporter of doing the right thing in Afghanistan, meaning getting enough troops in there to keep the peace and to stop the Taliban from gaining power and to stop the terrorist organizations that perpetrated 9/11. We were attacked on 911 it just wasn't Iraq.

I wish the pull out of Iraq could be quicker but I understand that its a fragile situation and I recognize that to do it right will take some time.

I don't see an end game in Afghanistan. If the Soviets couldn't conquer Afghanistan in how many years and many consider it their version of Vietnam. Should we expect different results?

The republicans controlled congress for 6 of Bushes 8 years and Bush went from being the president with the least number of vetos to the president with the most number of vetos in 2 years.(2006 -2008)

So no I do not think they were goose stepping along. I think the democrats are trying way to hard to keep the republicans engaged in the debate when they just scream No to just about everything.

I think way to many democrats are in the hands of big business but I think thats true of both parties especially the giant insurance companies that are spending billions fighting any health care reform.

Well, I think we'll have to disagree to a point here. While the Republicans do take the lionshare in the 8 years of Bush. I sometimes get tired of people making it like the Democrats were on vacation and left little Georgie home alone.

Also, slightly miffed how they got congress back on an anti-war swell and then proceeded to go ahead with a surge. I don't know, it just kind of bugged me. It also bugged someone like Cindy Sheehan.

As for keeping the Republicans engaged in the conversation. Why are the Democrats doing that? On paper they have the votes to go ahead and do whatever they want. Why not just do it? If they succeed, they control Washington for the foreseeable future.


Yes much of it is politics as usual but then what other kind of politics is there.
Nobody likes it but what other option is there, Utopian dreams are nice on paper but they do not work in the real world. Here everyone is fighting for what they want or beleive in and politicians are asked to sort it all out and make the rules we live by. We have giant bureaucracies that perform important work but they don't change over night.

Yes it politics as usual but the wind has changed and the big boat can change direction it just needs time and a lot of work.

We'll see. As I don't see a huge difference between the parties...I think the only course correction that will be had is if we break the back of the two party system and let more groups participate in the process.

[Zebulon0351]

Mr. Blue.. the only way Afghanistan defeated the russians was because we supplied them with the appropriate weapons and materials.

We are not seeing much of an impact on those very out-dated weapons so far.

[Tommy]

Nobody ever talks about that..
we gave weapons to (we armed) the Taliban

[Mr. Blue]

Mr. Blue.. the only way Afghanistan defeated the russians was because we supplied them with the appropriate weapons and materials.

We are not seeing much of an impact on those very out-dated weapons so far.

That's partially true, but it's also because of the region itself. Say we control Afghanistan, what stops the "bad guys" from moving to Pakistan...and if they move to Pakistan, do we follow? Or when we leave, if we leave Afghanistan, ever, or if we leave Iraq, ever, what stops the groups from just reforming?

As far as I'm concerned, there doesn't seem to be an exit strategy where we come out the "victors"...in fact I think we're going to be in Iraq and Afghanistan for the foreseeable future.

Now, I'm not one of those anti-war types, but I do see us using our resources on wars, troops, etc, and we can't really afford it.

[Zebulon0351]

That's partially true, but it's also because of the region itself. Say we control Afghanistan, what stops the "bad guys" from moving to Pakistan...and if they move to Pakistan, do we follow?


No.. we invade Iraq... that solves the problem.

Or when we leave, if we leave Afghanistan, ever, or if we leave Iraq, ever, what stops the groups from just reforming?

Iraq is a lost cause. And I don't see it ever being a possibility of us ever leaving Afghanistan, at least not for the next few decades. No groups will be "reforming" in Iraq.. simply because Al Qaeda would have had to have some type of formation within Iraq pre-2003.. which they didn't.

Al Qaeda will take control of Iraq within a few months after we leave, and finally.. for the first time.... Iraq will be controlled by Al Qaeda influence.

Good job Bush!

[Mr. Blue]

No.. we invade Iraq... that solves the problem.

That was never the right answer. I have to give credit to Robert Byrd for trying to filibuster the resolution, but he couldn't get his own party to back it.

Iraq is a lost cause. And I don't see it ever being a possibility of us ever leaving Afghanistan, at least not for the next few decades. No groups will be "reforming" in Iraq.. simply because Al Qaeda would have had to have some type of formation within Iraq pre-2003.. which they didn't.

Al Qaeda will take control of Iraq within a few months after we leave, and finally.. for the first time.... Iraq will be controlled by Al Qaeda influence.

Good job Bush!

So, we're in Afghanistan for the foreseeable future and to what ends? I mean, after decades of being in Afghanistan, then what? America is going to spend decades of it's resources securing one country while all the surrounding countries hate us to hell and back because of our ME Policy?

Also, Iraq is a lost cause, why not just cut and run now? Or, should we stay in Iraq like we're staying in Afghanistan? I mean, if it was the first shot in a resource war, and we're there to secure oil, wouldn't it seem that Iraq is a bigger prize with 1/4th the world's oil supply than Afghanistan?

Essentially, I believe we've had a failed Middle East Policy for decades. It's time we look at a total transformation of how we do business in the Middle East.

[Zebulon0351]

No argument from me there.

[mwillman]

I don't see an end game in Afghanistan. If the Soviets couldn't conquer Afghanistan in how many years and many consider it their version of Vietnam. Should we expect different results?

I think there was a reason we were able to overturn the Taliban in just a few weeks. The vast majority of the people in Afghanistan did not like Taliban rule.
The end game in Afghanistan will take a while but it is in many ways an easier fight becuase most of the Afghans want a better life and they can see that they can have it with our help.

Iraq did not want us to invade and they do not want us there now. There really wasnt any real reason to go there to begin with.



Well, I think we'll have to disagree to a point here. While the Republicans do take the lionshare in the 8 years of Bush. I sometimes get tired of people making it like the Democrats were on vacation and left little Georgie home alone.

I'm not saying all democrats were innocent of what went on the last 8 years but they were not the driving force and they did not all just cow tow to the executive branch.



Also, slightly miffed how they got congress back on an anti-war swell and then proceeded to go ahead with a surge. I don't know, it just kind of bugged me. It also bugged someone like Cindy Sheehan.

Again they were put in the position of either being called for not supporting the troops or financing the surge. I actually think the surge as its called did some good. We needed to do something, we were in a serious quagmire for 3 years and something needed to change. Rumsfeld did not know how to even finish the war let alone plan an exit strategy. The surge got them the time they needed to get enough of the Iraqi security trained up for us to be able to pull out without leaving total chaos behind.

None of this would have been necessary if Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld hadn't force the Iraq war down the peoples throat but that is water under the bridge. In the end the War in Iraq was one of the most wastefuls bits of nonsense this nation has ever had to endure we have gained nothing by spending trillions in Iraq but again we have to deal with the aftermath and that takes time.


As for keeping the Republicans engaged in the conversation. Why are the Democrats doing that? On paper they have the votes to go ahead and do whatever they want. Why not just do it? If they succeed, they control Washington for the foreseeable future.

I wish they wouldn't even bother with the republicans for a while. They made their bed and now they should lay in it.



We'll see. As I don't see a huge difference between the parties...I think the only course correction that will be had is if we break the back of the two party system and let more groups participate in the process.

This is a big topic and has many branches but I will say That I am all for more political parties. Of course in the end it all comes down to yay or nay and as such there will always be two sides to every vote.