Adding fuel to the fire in support of reparations for african-americans

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

Some people who cringe at this idea say other groups have faced prejudice in their history in the U S & have not been compensated so why should african-americans? Well, no other group has had to deal with prejudice as long or on a regular & still on going basis as african-americans. Also & probably most important, no other group has contributed more economically to the U S as a result of slavery & on going prejudice. The perfect example being that the New York Stock Exchange would not be where it is today had it not been for the cotton industry. And though the north had abolished slavery it still did business with the southern states where it was still in practice. And, as if anymore proof was needed, the " southern strategy", instituted by the GOP in the mid to late '60's to solidify a diminishing political base by letting white southerners know their racist veiws had a home in the GOP ( rather than allowing these veiws to die out) & which is acknowledged by everyone as having taken place, is clearly a blatant attempt to keep african-americans from having the same rights & privaledges as caucasian americans. A policy which the U S is still feeling the effects from to this very day.

[TheRightWing]

America is comprised of a mostly immigrant population, most of whom arrived after the end of slavery, should people not even involved with slavery make reparations? That's certainly not fair.

African-Americans have opportunities to achieve whatever they want in America at the moment, but people like you want to handicap them by their race and always pushing this point that they can't achieve on their own and somehow need a handout by a white person.

I suppose you support Affirmative action as well. Another crutch to keep African-Americans from achieving their own successes in life and making them feel as if they need a white person to help them out.

Should we also pay the Asians that helped build the west? Should we make reparations to the American Indian? Maybe we should bankrupt the country in the process?

Quit living in the past. Let African-Americans stand on their own two feet and quit this victim complex. Are you man? If so, own up, work hard, and achieve success. If you’re not a man ask for a handout.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

America is comprised of a mostly immigrant population, most of whom arrived after the end of slavery, should people not even involved with slavery make reparations? That's certainly not fair.

African-Americans have opportunities to achieve whatever they want in America at the moment, but people like you want to handicap them by their race and always pushing this point that they can't achieve on their own and somehow need a handout by a white person.

I suppose you support Affirmative action as well. Another crutch to keep African-Americans from achieving their own successes in life and making them feel as if they need a white person to help them out.

Should we also pay the Asians that helped build the west? Should we make reparations to the American Indian? Maybe we should bankrupt the country in the process?

Quit living in the past. Let African-Americans stand on their own two feet and quit this victim complex. Are you man? If so, own up, work hard, and achieve success. If you’re not a man ask for a handout.
The precedent was set when the U S paid the Japanese whose land was taken during WW2, primarily in Cali. One of the points I made is that african-americans contributed trmendously to the growth of the U S through slavery. The New York Stock Exchange exists as it does today as a result of the cotton industry, which at that time was fueled by slavery. You like to bury your head in the sand. By the way, how's the veiw?

[TheRightWing]

So, should the American Indian get all the land that was taken from them? Because they were here way longer than any of us.

Also, the majority of White America had nothing to do with Slavery. It's like the French people trying to collect reparations from Italy for the invasion of Gaul Territory during the Roman Empire.

Enough is enough, history is history, and you have to leave it at that...never forget, but moving on from the "Victim Complex" that seems to be so pronounced in minority communities. Work Hard, Get Ahead, Quit Crying.

[Linkster]

Quick answer - yes the Indians should get their land

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

So, should the American Indian get all the land that was taken from them? Because they were here way longer than any of us.

Also, the majority of White America had nothing to do with Slavery. It's like the French people trying to collect reparations from Italy for the invasion of Gaul Territory during the Roman Empire.

Enough is enough, history is history, and you have to leave it at that...never forget, but moving on from the "Victim Complex" that seems to be so pronounced in minority communities. Work Hard, Get Ahead, Quit Crying.
The idea is to reach an agreed upon solution by all parties. The bottom line is that caucasians & african-americans both know the samething: as a result of slavery, the U S got alot in return very little. That's what really bothers caucasians the most. It's like getting a loan & not paying it back. You know that eventually you're going top have to pay the loan back.

[juggernaut]

How about getting reparations from the people who sold them? Are they not at fault also? African Americans were sold by African tribe leaders but no one ever talks about that. In those days it was a normal practice. In today’s world we know it's wrong but still it was normal back then. During 1300's it was still a normal practice to cut the head off of your enemy and post it on a pole or just impale him. Yet when people talk of Vlad Tepes they talk how terrible it was that he impaled people. Normal practice back then. I have a simple question. If segregation in schools is illegal how come African Americans can have their own colleges and universities but yet no other race can have one? If they do they are quickly classified as raciest. This is a debate that will roll on forever. Should someone pay for something someone did over 100 years ago? Should the other races of South East LA get reparations from the riots? Should the Korean store owners be permitted to collect more money from their African Americans customers? Should Reginald Deny and the rest of his offspring get reparations for the rest of their lives for having his skull bashed in for driving a truck into town? "The idea is to reach an agreed upon solution by all parties." That's already been done. They were promised 40 acres and a mule. So if the United States government decided to give every African American 40 acres in Alaska and 1 mule would that be ok? Apparently not because now, it’s turned into “I want money” but that’s not what was promised. How about learning in school, get a good education and then a good job? Last I checked math is math no matter how old the book is. It’s kind of funny, you ask any African American who worked their ass off to be educated and has a decent job if they want reparations and they will tell you no. You know why? Cause the money will come from taxes and they don’t want their taxes raised just as much as the next guy. But ask an unemployed, uneducated African American and they will scream to the highest mountain yes. The only people who should get anything are the Indians cause they were totally fucked and all they tried to do was help the people who came over.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

How about getting reparations from the people who sold them? Are they not at fault also? African Americans were sold by African tribe leaders but no one ever talks about that. In those days it was a normal practice. In today’s world we know it's wrong but still it was normal back then. During 1300's it was still a normal practice to cut the head off of your enemy and post it on a pole or just impale him. Yet when people talk of Vlad Tepes they talk how terrible it was that he impaled people. Normal practice back then. I have a simple question. If segregation in schools is illegal how come African Americans can have their own colleges and universities but yet no other race can have one? If they do they are quickly classified as raciest. This is a debate that will roll on forever. Should someone pay for something someone did over 100 years ago? Should the other races of South East LA get reparations from the riots? Should the Korean store owners be permitted to collect more money from their African Americans customers? Should Reginald Deny and the rest of his offspring get reparations for the rest of their lives for having his skull bashed in for driving a truck into town? "The idea is to reach an agreed upon solution by all parties." That's already been done. They were promised 40 acres and a mule. So if the United States government decided to give every African American 40 acres in Alaska and 1 mule would that be ok? Apparently not because now, it’s turned into “I want money” but that’s not what was promised. How about learning in school, get a good education and then a good job? Last I checked math is math no matter how old the book is. It’s kind of funny, you ask any African American who worked their ass off to be educated and has a decent job if they want reparations and they will tell you no. You know why? Cause the money will come from taxes and they don’t want their taxes raised just as much as the next guy. But ask an unemployed, uneducated African American and they will scream to the highest mountain yes. The only people who should get anything are the Indians cause they were totally fucked and all they tried to do was help the people who came over.
Defend this;1) the precedent has been set when the U S paid Japanese whose land was taken during WW2k, suppossedly because they were sympathetic to Japan ,when in fact that was used as an excuse to confiscate, 2) name me any other group who were taken advantage of, from an economic standpoint, as much as slaves were, the New York Stock Exchange wouldn't be where it is today if not for slavery. People like you want to let bygones be bygones as long as you profit from it.

[juggernaut]

Defend this;1) the precedent has been set when the U S paid Japanese whose land was taken during WW2k, suppossedly because they were sympathetic to Japan ,when in fact that was used as an excuse to confiscate, 2) name me any other group who were taken advantage of, from an economic standpoint, as much as slaves were, the New York Stock Exchange wouldn't be where it is today if not for slavery. People like you want to let bygones be bygones as long as you profit from it.This is one of the reasons I dont come here much anymore. I am not profiting from the stock market. I guess your one of the guys looking or the easy handout. Still you stated there has to be an agreement when I told you there already was one, but that is not good enough. You seem to have found 1 point that the stock market was created by slaves. So what? So was peanut butter, what's that have to do with anything you are saying. I'm sure there are whites profiting from the sale of jiffy. So was rap music and I'm sure there are whites who are profiting from that. In the rappers mind they are still slaves to the white man, so in your mind me being white, it would be ok for me to pay more for a rap song? Come on dude the agreement was made and has yet to be given out. Is that wrong? Sure but now the decendants do not want what there fore fathers agreed. So now they want to go back to the bargining table. I can tell you this and you may not like it. But if every person left this country and left every black person here. You think it would be a better place? I can bet you every educated african american would leave right next to the white man. Why is that? Is it the white mans fault that to have an education in a black community considered turning your back on your culture. I find it funny that true Africans hate the african american. Why is that?

[Linkster]

One point thats being missed here is that the Japanese had reparations for actual land/property taken wheras the slaves didnt own anything therefore there would be nothing to pay in reparations - which is why every time this discussion comes up over the years, the argument ends up going nowhere.

The facts are that the slaves were sold by black tribal leaders to raise money in Africa - and were owned in the US by both Northern and Southern richer families until the late 1800s - and had very little if anything to do with the Civil War - although unfortunately the misinformed kids around the US keep getting taught that lie.

Now there was some little effect in that the reason that the North went to war to keep the South a part of the Republic was all about economics and nothing about slaves - until Lincoln saw a great way to agitate the northerners into joining the fight and supporting the war a year into the battles by making it a slavery issue hiding the fact that without the slaves the moms up north wouldnt have their cotton to make pretty things

[TheRightWing]

History is history and you can't rewrite and make ammends for history...all you can do is learn from history and hope

History has been one long series of wars, conquests, enslavement, winners and losers. At what point do you stop trying to relive history and seek reparations for it? To the winners goes the spoils and all that sort of stuff. You have to at a point quit crying about the past and move forward.

America happens to coddle everyone now. Boohoo, my life is horrible, let me blame everyone but me. It's creating a "victim" driven society and if we don't quit it you'll soon be learning how to speak Chinese and they're not going to give two damns about your history.

Move forward already. The U.S. still offers a bounty of opportunities and it's not limited to just white people.

[Betty Blowtorch]

History is history and you can't rewrite and make ammends
for history... History has been one long series of wars, conquests,
enslavement, winners and losers. At what point do you stop trying
to relive history and seek reparations for it? To the winners goes
the spoils and all that sort of stuff. You have to at a point quit
crying about the past and move forward.
Your callous disregard for the "losers and victims" of the world
comes through loud and clear. You believe in the philosophy
that "Might Makes Right" and that modern enlightened views
of justice for all humans -- even the weak -- be damned.

Hitler would be proud of you. So would Stalin.
Bush and Cheney are very proud of you.
And they thank you for your vote.



America happens to coddle everyone now. Boohoo, my life
is horrible, let me blame everyone but me. It's creating a
"victim" driven society and if we don't quit it you'll soon be
learning how to speak Chinese and they're not going to give
two damns about your history.
The enslavement of Africans leaves you cold. The genocide
against native Americans means nothing to you...

But you whine if anyone pokes fun at Christians:



The media, the movies, comics, bloggers, everyone is willing
to do these wholesale shots at Christianity and never think
twice about it. However, go after anyone else and there
would be hell to pay. It's a doublestandard that is a bit
disturbing, don't you think?
Wahhhh!! Poor little Christian victims. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1886/avatarcryingmonkeyqq1.jpg
(Talk about a double standard.)

[TheRightWing]

Your callous disregard for the "losers and victims" of the world
comes through loud and clear. You believe in the philosophy
that "Might Makes Right" and that modern enlightened views
of justice for all humans -- even the weak -- be damned.

Hitler would be proud of you. So would Stalin.
Bush and Cheney are very proud of you.
And they thank you for your vote.


The enslavement of Africans leaves you cold. The genocide
against native Americans means nothing to you...

But you whine if anyone pokes fun at Christians:


Wahhhh!! Poor little Christian victims. http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/1886/avatarcryingmonkeyqq1.jpg
(Talk about a double standard.)

You're truly an intellectual lightweight and you're so gung ho at going after me that you haven't expressed an opinion on the topic stated. So, let's start with that:

Betty, do you think African Americans should get reparations for slavery? By ignoring the question you can safely throw stones at me and avoid answering the question.

Secondly, I'm not cold hearted, I'm stating fact that history is history and you can't go back and change it. You selectively edited out the first part of what I said:

History is history and you can't rewrite and make ammends for history...all you can do is learn from history and hope

Which clearly states that you have to learn from history and try not to repeat it...however, you can't change history unless you have a delorean and your name is McFly...it's just the way it is.

You're a dimwit that wanted to quickly get to the liberal slant and call me Hitler or Stalin without reading what I wrote. So hardly cold hearted, just factual, and if you believe people should pay for the sins of their ancestors...get ready to pay up. Oh and please answer the question in this thread...I do realize that much like a child you want attention from your intellectual superior, but it makes for better discussion when you answer the question originally stated in the thread.

Now if you weren't so imbecilic you'd realize my post in the Catholic Church thread was showing an imbalance and a hypocrisy in the media on who's acceptable to attack and who isn't...no crying on my part, just pointing out hypocrisy.

Liberals, moderates, whites, are so scared to talk about race and African Americans that they don't address issues, much like you tried to avoid in this thread, because you have some white guilt complex.

So, again, answer the question: Do you think African-Americans should get reparations for slavery?

Come on and put down the coloring books for a bit and actually answer a question. It's okay, don't be scared to answer, I'll still give you the attention you crave and I'll buy you a new coloring book if you do.

[Betty Blowtorch]

I do realize that much like a child you want attention
from your intellectual superior.
Don't jack yourself off in public. http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3341/whipitgoodkb7.gif
If you must do it, Mr. RightWing, please do it in private.

Only an idiot with a self-inflated ego -- who subconsciously
senses his own intellectual limitations -- would refer to himself
as intellectually superior. I've read most of your posts, and
I haven't seen you present a single original thought that is
anything more than a regurgitation of Repug talking points
that I've already heard from delusional idiots like you.

I wonder how old you are. You strike me as young and stupid.
You egotistically claim that I want your attention when in fact
I just want you to shut the fuck up and disappear. Take your
Repug talking points to a freeper forum where you Bushsuckers
can jack each other off, and the rest of us won't have to read
your noxious opinions.



You're truly an intellectual lightweight...
Sounds like a challenge. I suppose I can waste a little bit of time
on you.



You're so gung ho at going after me that you haven't expressed
an opinion on the topic stated.

If I were so gung ho about going after you, I'd do it more often,
but life's too short, so I generally don't bother. You're like a gnat
buzzing around a picnic table: an irritant that deserves nothing
more than an occasional swat.

Most of your opinions are so lame and trite, they don't warrant
serious discussion -- they only deserve to be ignored or ridiculed.



You selectively edited out the first part of what I said:

"all you can do is learn from history and hope"

... which clearly states that you have to learn from history
and try not to repeat it.
I edited out that brief 10-word phrase because it struck me
as an empty, trite rewording of Santayana's famous maxim:
"Those who can't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
which contradicts your own pro-war, pro-Bush statements.

Most of what you've written in this forum proves that you
personally have failed to learn from the past. Furthermore,
it's become obvious to 70% of the American public that the
dim-witted fuehrer you so stubbornly defend (George Dubya)
has failed to learn from the past (Vietnam) and has stupidly
repeated it (Iraq).

You belong to a pathetic, dwindling minority of diehard Bush
defenders (less than 30% in recent polls) who are so willfully
blind to the truth that you refuse to admit to the corruption,
dishonesty and incompetence of the Bush gang. Everybody
else is waking up, Mr. RightWing. You're in a drunken stupor,
your brain besotted with poisoned Repug kool-aid.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3623/koolaidmonkeyrr5.jpg

It's difficult to comprehend how you can be so willfully blind
despite all the evidence that has revealed the Bush regime
as one of the most disastrous regimes in American history:
torture at Abu Ghraib, illegal spying on American citizens,
the Downing Street memo, the Valerie Plame scandal, the
suspension of habeas corpus, the bungling response to the
Katrina disaster, the quagmire in Iraq, the failure to capture
Osama bin Laden, the criminal convictions of Bush gangsters
like Scooter Libby, Jack Abramoff and Ken Lay...

Oh wait, let's not forget all the lies told by the Bush gang
to con the American public into buying the neocon disaster
in Iraq. Remember all that bullshit about mushroom clouds
over Manhattan and yellowcake uranium from Niger?

And let's not forget Dubya's response when he was given
a top-secret briefing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_Determined_to_Attack_Inside_the_United_S tates) which specifically warned that Osama
was determined to attack America with hijacked aircraft:
the "Commander Guy" immediately went on a month-long
vacation in Bumbfuck, Texas.

Need I go on?



Liberals, moderates, whites, are so scared to talk about race
and African Americans that they don't address issues, much
like you tried to avoid in this thread, because you have some
white guilt complex.
You've repeatedly whined that we make unfair generalizations
about Republicans because of the reprehensible conduct of a
few bad apples.

This generalization you've just made about liberals is not only
unfair, it's delusional. Allow me to acquaint you with reality:
Liberals are the ones who faced the centuries-old problem of
racism in America and took steps to address it and try to fix it.
Liberals helped bring about the civil rights movement in America.

If it had been left up to right-wing conservatives, the "darkies"
would still be sitting in the back of the bus and drinking out of
"coloreds only" drinking fountains.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7261/kkkred2sl5.jpg




Come on and put down the coloring books for a bit
and actually answer a question. It's okay, don't be
scared to answer, I'll still give you the attention you
crave and I'll buy you a new coloring book if you do.
Sure, I'll answer your question. I'm here to help you
any way I can. You believe that, don't you? That
I'm here to help you any way I can?

http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/7686/jacknicholson2an2.jpg

But you gotta ask me nicely. You gotta stand there
in your faggoty white uniform and ask me nicely.

Since I know you're a moron and didn't know any
better, I'll cut you some slack this time. But if
you want me to answer any of your questions in
the future, you'll have to ask me nicely.

The answer to your question is "no." If you want
me to elaborate further, you gotta ask me nicely.

Still feeling intellectually superior, asshole?

[TheRightWing]

And yet you've managed to spend another thread not answering the question or staying on topic. Apparently you're a dullard who must obsess on me instead of answering or participating in the original thread.

I didn't start this thread, why don't you focus on the thread first, and then you can proceed to say whatever you want about me, but please try to stay on topic and stop acting hysterical just because you disagree with things I've posted in other threads.

Instead like an elementary school student you post little pictures, you hijack a thread, you change the topic of the thread just so you can attack me because I gave an honest opinion of how I view the topic.

Where's your opinion on the topic? Do you have a real opinion on any political topic or are you limited to little pictures and getting easily offended? Seriously, make an attempt to stay on topic in a thread or at least make an attempt at expressing an opinion.

So, either you can spend your time in every single thread obsessing about me -or- you could actually try forming an opinion on the topic at hand and expressing your opinion without silly little pictures. Give it a try, it's far more persuasive, and people might actually agree with you.

However, I have a feeling you'll just continue to obsess about me and never stay on topic in any thread. Aww, poor crazy person can't handle one little Republican posting on the board without losing their mind.

[imgonnaeaturlunch]

This is one of the reasons I dont come here much anymore. I am not profiting from the stock market. I guess your one of the guys looking or the easy handout. Still you stated there has to be an agreement when I told you there already was one, but that is not good enough. You seem to have found 1 point that the stock market was created by slaves. So what? So was peanut butter, what's that have to do with anything you are saying. I'm sure there are whites profiting from the sale of jiffy. So was rap music and I'm sure there are whites who are profiting from that. In the rappers mind they are still slaves to the white man, so in your mind me being white, it would be ok for me to pay more for a rap song? Come on dude the agreement was made and has yet to be given out. Is that wrong? Sure but now the decendants do not want what there fore fathers agreed. So now they want to go back to the bargining table. I can tell you this and you may not like it. But if every person left this country and left every black person here. You think it would be a better place? I can bet you every educated african american would leave right next to the white man. Why is that? Is it the white mans fault that to have an education in a black community considered turning your back on your culture. I find it funny that true Africans hate the african american. Why is that?
If the U S had followed through on its original agreement then maybe african-americans wouldn't be in a position to say no to it. The U S has a history of not following through on committments, just ask Native Americans who were screwed when it came to what they were suppose to receive as a result of their treaties with the U S.

[Betty Blowtorch]

EatUrLunch makes a good point that African-American slaves
created a lot of wealth through their slave labor, and they
got screwed out of their fair share of the fruits of their labor.
But the slaves and slaveholders are long dead, and at this
late date there's no way to go back and make it up to the
slaves who got screwed.

Rather than focusing on a past wrong that can't be undone,
we should focus on the present. Racism is alive and well in
the good ol' USA. Blacks are still being discriminated against.
It hurts the black community and it hurts America. Instead
of putting a million black men behind bars -- many of them
prisoners of the Drug War -- they must be fully integrated
into the fabric of American society: schools, the workplace,
housing, etc.

The civil rights movement was a good start, but it's only a
start. It will take several generations for white America to
become colorblind. Blacks and whites (and Hispanics, etc.)
must become accustomed to working side-by-side in the
workplace, going to school together and living in the same
neighborhoods.

Conservatives claim that liberal solutions have failed, but
the conservatives offer no solutions at all. They just blame
the blacks for being lazy and tell them to stop looking for a
handout and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. But
this myopic viewpoint ignores the reality of discrimination
based on skin color.

Like many conservatives, I don't like having people living on
welfare for 10 or 20 years, but I'm a big believer in education
and job training. While some liberal programs have achieved
disappointing results, the fact remains that millions of lives
have been changed for the better because of job training
and education supported by taxpayers.

We can either put the money into positive liberal programs
to help blacks become fully integrated and productive, or
else we'll end up spending it on police and court trials to
put blacks in prison. Education and job training are more
cost-effective, intelligent and humane than prisons.

I don't believe in reparations for the descendants of slaves
because it's an awkward and difficult method of dealing
with the negative effects of racism in the present, and
it doesn't carry much legal or political weight.

If I were African-American, however, I might have a
different opinion on reparations. I certainly wouldn't
turn down free money if it was offered with no strings
attached.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Apparently you're a dullard who must
obsess on me...

You can spend your time in every single thread
obsessing about me...

However, I have a feeling you'll just continue to
obsess about me...
You've got NPD: narcissistic personality disorder. http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/642/tohimselfgg4.jpg
Seek therapy, dude, you're obviously delusional.

Allow me to acquaint you with reality:

There are some people on this forum who are strongly
anti-war and anti-Bush. If you're going to come onto
this forum aggressively spouting your pro-war, pro-Bush
talking points, then you're intentionally stirring up shit
and making yourself a target. So don't whine if you
get zapped from time to time.

Be aware of the neighborhood you've entered. http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2693/runningawayjq8.gif
You're in Injun Country now, General Custer.
Watch out for flying arrows.

Did you expect your stupid, noxious views to be welcomed
with open arms? Were you expecting flowers?

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/907/cheneyquoteiraqwc2.gif

Hopefully we'll disabuse you of your narcissistic delusion
of intellectual superiority.


Don't get me wrong, Mr. RightWing, http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2918/welcomejetff0.gif
you're more than welcome here.

Wanna be my bitch? I promise to use plenty of lubricant.

[TheRightWing]

EatUrLunch makes a good point that African-American slaves
created a lot of wealth through their slave labor, and they
got screwed out of their fair share of the fruits of their labor.
But the slaves and slaveholders are long dead, and at this
late date there's no way to go back and make it up to the
slaves who got screwed.

Rather than focusing on a past wrong that can't be undone,
we should focus on the present. Racism is alive and well in
the good ol' USA. Blacks are still being discriminated against.
It hurts the black community and it hurts America. Instead
of putting a million black men behind bars -- many of them
prisoners of the Drug War -- they must be fully integrated
into the fabric of American society: schools, the workplace,
housing, etc.

The civil rights movement was a good start, but it's only a
start. It will take several generations for white America to
become colorblind. Blacks and whites (and Hispanics, etc.)
must become accustomed to working side-by-side in the
workplace, going to school together and living in the same
neighborhoods.

Conservatives claim that liberal solutions have failed, but
the conservatives offer no solutions at all. They just blame
the blacks for being lazy and tell them to stop looking for a
handout and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. But
this myopic viewpoint ignores the reality of discrimination
based on skin color.

Like many conservatives, I don't like having people living on
welfare for 10 or 20 years, but I'm a big believer in education
and job training. While some liberal programs have achieved
disappointing results, the fact remains that millions of lives
have been changed for the better because of job training
and education supported by taxpayers.

We can either put the money into positive liberal programs
to help blacks become fully integrated and productive, or
else we'll end up spending it on police and court trials to
put blacks in prison. Education and job training are more
cost-effective, intelligent and humane than prisons.

I don't believe in reparations for the descendants of slaves
because it's an awkward and difficult method of dealing
with the negative effects of racism in the present, and
it doesn't carry much legal or political weight.

If I were African-American, however, I might have a
different opinion on reparations. I certainly wouldn't
turn down free money if it was offered with no strings
attached.

Very good response...while I may not agree with everything you wrote you eloquently articulated your argument.

The points where I agree...I don't mind social programs to help the less fortunate and I do understand that situations arise where helping Americans (all Americans) get back on their feet is necessary. Welfare should never become an occupation and programs that help should never become an endless cycle of giving with no benefits.

An example: In NYC Rudy Giuliani started a program to get the welfare rolls reduced and get those people into jobs. Why was this necessary? Before Giuliani NYC had 1 out of 7 people on Welfare. Those numbers were astoundingly bad and throwing money at a problem wasn't working. He moved 640,000 people into jobs and off government assistance.

When he implemented this program there was complaints left and right, the news before the program got into effect would visit these people on welfare and demonize Giuliani for what he was about to do. However, once his plan proved to be successful...the news only had praise for him.

So any social program has to be properly managed otherwise it becomes a burden. There has to be clear goals and objectives for the program and not just throwing money with no concern if that money will do any good.

I believe there's some middle ground to be found between the liberal and the conservative answers to social ills.

I tend to be a little harsh towards people complaining about their lot in life. I started out rather poor and worked as many jobs as I could to turn that around. With my background I tend to believe that hard work, saving money, and using money appropriately anyone of any color can get ahead.

What I don't understand is people with low paying jobs gets tons of credit cards, lives beyond their means, buys things they don't need like extremely expensive clothing, cellphones, etc, etc, etc. When I was poor I'd buy the cheapest shoes and save the extra money to start my own business. When I worked at any job I worked hard and got promoted. I didn't bitch that it was a minimum wage job so I'm going to give a minimum wage effort.

Racism, sexism, religious hatred, or any other ism you can think of will always exist in the world to some degree. If you embrace the "ism" as an excuse to completely give up then you've lost. I don't believe that opportunity is limited by skin color and I judge people by their work ethic and not by their ethnicity. America still is the land of opportunity, but it's not going to be given to you on a silver platter.

[Betty Blowtorch]

Darn. Your response was far too reasonable.

I can't poke fun at you if you're going to express yourself
like a moderate or a liberal.

Can't you go back to being an obnoxious Bush defender?
It's more fun that way.

[TheRightWing]

You've got NPD: narcissistic personality disorder. http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/642/tohimselfgg4.jpg
Seek therapy, dude, you're obviously delusional.

Allow me to acquaint you with reality:

There are some people on this forum who are strongly
anti-war and anti-Bush. If you're going to come onto
this forum aggressively spouting your pro-war, pro-Bush
talking points, then you're intentionally stirring up shit
and making yourself a target. So don't whine if you
get zapped from time to time.

Be aware of the neighborhood you've entered. http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2693/runningawayjq8.gif
You're in Injun Country now, General Custer.
Watch out for flying arrows.

Did you expect your stupid, noxious views to be welcomed
with open arms? Were you expecting flowers?

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/907/cheneyquoteiraqwc2.gif

Hopefully we'll disabuse you of your narcissistic delusion
of intellectual superiority.


Don't get me wrong, Mr. RightWing, http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2918/welcomejetff0.gif
you're more than welcome here.

Wanna be my bitch? I promise to use plenty of lubricant.

Aww, and here I thought you'd turned over a new leaf. Well, it was fun while it lasted, but at least I got you to articulate your thoughts on the original topic before you went back to your little pictures and random insults.

A small success on my part nonetheless. Much like a Pavlovian experiment I'm hoping to train a liberal to answer the questions instead of avoiding the issues with trite little attacks. However, Pavlov had dogs to work with and all I have is a mindless liberal (was that offensive enough for you?).

[Betty Blowtorch]

Pavlov had dogs to work with and all I have is a mindless liberal
(was that offensive enough for you?).
Yes, thank you.

Unfortunately I have to leave for work now, but I'll get back
to you with another trite little attack tomorrow or whenever
I get the chance.

[exarmyranger]

My answer to the post.No... giving $ to persons without first establishing some guidelines,or making sure the recipents have a basic understanding of money management,would be akin to putting a bandaid on a severed artery.Educate,train,those who wish,subsidize food/housing,till training is complete.Give a man a fish you feed him for a day;Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for life. :cool: ex

[Betty Blowtorch]

Welcome back
EX-MAN http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2241/wave1e0pj3.gif
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3165/xmenheroyz8.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8724/feete0kp3.gif
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1434/rangerheroresizegu1.jpg
Was the mission a success?

[Betty Blowtorch]

Hey Mr. RightWing http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/159/avatarbushfatkiddancingro9.gif

I think this thread has run its course, so I'll make my next
trite little attack (http://dcjunkies.com/showpost.php?p=7764&postcount=36) on a more crucial topic: the War in Iraq.

I hope you find my attack trite enough for your taste.

[TheRightWing]

That's quite alright...have fun. Can you also please do a trite little attack in the "Liberalism Is Dead In America" Thanks. I'm looking forward to both babbling diatribes punctuated by little cartoons.